Sex Talk: How to Successfully Talk To Women According To Science!

Whether you are struggling to communicate with a female you are hoping to date, or you are in a relationship and having difficulty talking to your partner both in and out of bed, this podcast episode is for you.

I talk to Dr. DR. Stephen Furlich, author of the Book Sex Talk: How Biological Sex Influences Gender Communication Differences Throughout Life's Stages about the role biology plays in the way females and males communicate with each other.
In this episode, you'll learn.

1. Communication differences between male and females
2. Who’s better at non-verbal communication 
3.  Verbal communication differences
4.  Women’s sixth sense
5.  Sexual communication
6.  Emotional communication
7. Conflict resolution
8. Communication tips for success

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 1:24

Do the sex Think fun, honest and feminist as fuck, and always with the goal of fighting the patriarchy. One female orgasm at a time. Welcome to the locker room. Today's locker room talk and shots topic is sex talk how to successfully talk to women and improve relationships, dating, intimacy and sex with strategies based on biological differences. Heterosexuals as normative men and women are more frustrated than ever when it comes to dating and relationships. Could some of the issues they're dealing with the challenges, be rooted in biological differences and if so, wouldn't it stand to reason that understanding those differences and creating strategies around them that that could be part of the solution? My guest today says yes and actually has spent a lot of time researching this topic and coming up with strategies, and so he is going to walk us through this topic.

Speaker 1: 2:40

My guest today is Dr Stephen Furlick, a seasoned communication expert renowned for his innovative teaching and research spanning over two decades. His passion lies in unraveling the complexities of human interaction, bridging the gap between diverse viewpoints to foster better understanding With a unique teaching philosophy grounded in real-world application. Dr Furlick's exploration of biology's influence on gender communication culminates in his book Sex Talk I've got it right here where he merges scientific studies to shed light on the intricacies of intimate relationships. Dr Furlick, could you take a moment to tell my listeners just a little bit more about you before we launch in?

Speaker 2: 3:28

So a little bit about me. My bachelor's is in psychology and then my graduate work is in communication, and I've taught a gender communication class for over 10 years, and one of the things that really sparked my interest was that I kept seeing the same reoccurring themes, that there are some gender communication differences between males and females, but the research and the social sciences tend to lack some sort of precision and accuracy. So I kept seeing, year after year, decade after decade, regardless of society and regardless of culture, these same types of themes. So what's? One of the consistent reoccurring patterns is biology. So then I started to look at some of the neuroscience, biology and psychiatry, along with communication, to help explain what some of these differences consistent differences are beyond just the social learning.

Speaker 1: 4:21

Right, and then you brought it all together to help people learn these differences. So we're going to jump in here in just one minute. Listeners, you are going to want to listen all the way to the end because you are going to learn about the differences which you know. Online, especially on social media, you hear a lot of bro podcasters just spouting stuff about differences, but we actually have a legit doctor here to really break it down for us. And then not only we're going to learn about these differences, but we are going to give you strategies, specifically men strategies to understand those and then learn how to have, first of all, how women are, females, are communicating with you or differently than you, and how we can start to communicate better. So stay to the end. So let's get ready to talk about how to communicate so we can all have better relationships and well sex, hopefully, cheers All right, so jump in. I would love for you to start with this foundation.

Speaker 2: 5:22

And that's why I think that I really like that you just alluded to is that there is a lot of information out there, but what's the quality of the information? So, just using a metaphor, if you like to play poker, you got to play with the hand. You have not the one that you want. Same thing with the stock market you have to trade the market. You have not the one that you want. So that's one of the things that I try to do is let the science and the research guide me in the direction that it leads me, not what I want to see. And that's a problem with a lot of the social research out there and the gender studies research Some of that's even been discredited is that it's agenda driven. So I want to be much more objective with it. So one of the foundations that I like to start out with is at conception, we pretty much all start out on the same track. What we usually think of as a female track is much more easier to make a female than it's a male. And then, after about four months after conception, that's when the sex hormones start to differentiate, with the Y chromosome starting to kick in, the androgens what we think of as a male typical type of sex hormone, the testosterone, and then the females stay on the same path of the estrogen and what that actually does those sex hormones after about four months after conception, it actually creates brain structural differences between males and females. So these brain structural differences are found in areas responsible for emotion, perception, understanding and communication. So if you're still not convinced, think about this.

Speaker 2: 6:54

Research has advanced far enough where you can analyze a human brain without knowing it, predict with over 90% accuracy if it's a male or female, just based upon the structural differences between the male and the female from those sex hormones and how that influences the development of it.

Speaker 2: 7:13

There is also a study that just came out a couple months ago and this is after my book, but it really helps to solidify and it helps to help make consistent the themes that I have in my book.

Speaker 2: 7:26

Basically, what they did was they used AI, so some sort of advanced technology, and they looked at previous fMRI studies, the data, and they let the artificial intelligence bring that data together, found that there are activation sex differences enough between males and females in terms of intensity and location that you could differentiate a male brain from a female brain with over 90% accuracy based upon that activation.

Speaker 2: 7:55

So not only is there structural differences that you predict with over 90% accuracy, but also activation differences as well. So one of the things after you read my book Sex Talk, I hope that you could identify at least five different areas of the brain and how that influences our behaviors, our emotions, the topics that we use, the words that we use as well, and how it's based upon our biological influences along with all these other types of factors. But I focus much more on the biology of it. So that's a basic structure of why I take the theme and the thesis that there are gender communication differences based upon biology, based upon the brain differences and then also the activation differences and the sex hormone differences that we could go into also in more detail how that actually influences our language differences as well.

Speaker 1: 9:30

Right, and you did break that down. You also did talk a little bit about and this I don't want to center the conversation around this because it could really go a different direction. I want to focus on helping men communicate with women better and understand that difference better. But you did talk about the difference between sex and gender and gender as a social construct. You did address that a bit in the book. Can you maybe clarify that difference a little bit for our listeners so they understand what we're talking about clearly?

Speaker 2: 10:08

And that's one of the things I think is a good point to bring up. I think too often in society people use those interchangeably and sex is the biological sex. So what's your chromosomes, what's your sex hormone levels, what's your brain structure, whereas with gender is what's your social behaviors? So how do you communicate, maybe, how do you dress, how do you act, what types of behaviors that you do? So the sex is more of the physical, biological, and then the gender is more of how do we act socially, our social behaviors.

Speaker 1: 10:40

And how society has sort of affected how we act in those ways or express ourselves, how we act in those ways or express ourselves, and that's a piece of the puzzle that is.

Speaker 2: 10:51

And then our gender can also be. I don't see them as separate constructs exclusively. I see them as interconnected, that our biological sex influences the way that our gender and the way that we communicate and the way that we behave, our social behaviors as well.

Speaker 1: 11:06

We're gonna move on from that, though, because that can do in all sorts of that's a good point.

Speaker 1: 11:10

Yes, directions, but for this conversation's sake, I think what I want to do and I think what's going to be simplest for this conversation, we are going to be focusing on more of the heteronormative, cisgendered individuals. So I want to start with how our biologic differences and the book really does focus on brain differences and hormonal differences, which I think is brilliant and speaks to me as a very hormonal woman at this stage in my life me as a very hormonal woman at this stage of my life let's start with communication styles, how these differences affect men, or I want to say males and females, and how they manifest differently between the two genders.

Speaker 2: 12:05

First, just to begin with, is that all communication starts in the brain, so there's a biological component to it and I would suggest that sex hormones play a slightly larger role or bigger influence with our communication. Sex hormones do than the actual brain structure itself. But the first area that I would like to begin with is nonverbal communication and the differences between males and females with nonverbal communication. So as far as I'm concerned, the research is already settled that females are superior when it comes to nonverbal communication. It's been found consistently. There's been numerous studies. Whatever you want, looking at just the eyes of a picture and women can identify what that emotional state of that person is. You have a curtain between two people. You reach your arm across, you hold other person's hand. They can identify what the other person's emotional state is. They empathize much better. So what are some of the implications of it? What are some of the reasons why? So one of the things is that during social interactions, females have much higher levels of oxytocin. So oxytocin is that bonding chemical. So when you bond with someone else, what's that do? You empathize, you understand, you have a better understanding and feel what the other person's emotional state is because you have that higher level of oxytocin. Also, females have more mirror neurons that are activated during social interactions than what males do. What the mirror neurons do is you see someone else's nonverbal behaviors and then your mirror neurons activate and then it prepares your body to display those same specific behaviors that you see someone else do. So if you're actually going through the same process mentally, but then also physically, that someone else is going through, you can see how you could identify with the other person's emotional state much better.

Speaker 2: 13:58

One of the things that really stuck out to me through the research so we already talked about how there are brain structural differences and one of the biggest things, at least in nonverbal superior understanding for females is they have more interconnected brain, so they have more connections across both hemispheres, whereas with us primitive males we have more connections within each hemisphere.

Speaker 2: 14:19

So what that allows her to do is engage in the conversation, access that area of language also, access those mirror neurons, access the emotional state as well, access these other empathy areas of the brain at the same time, whereas with us males we could do one or the other or the other, but not nearly as well all three at the same time, so we can engage in the conversation or we can express emotion or we could try to understand the other person, whereas with females having more connections to different areas of the brain and more overall brain activation during social interactions allows her to do multiple things at the same time to engage in the conversation, understand the other person and empathize with them and analyze their nonverbal behaviors also as well.

Speaker 2: 15:07

Altogether, when males communicate and engage in conversation more so in language, the left side of the brain is activated, whereas emotion is activated on the right side. So you can see we're much more compartmentalized, whereas with females the overall brain and the interconnectedness is much more activated at the same time. So the bottom line with nonverbal communication is she's much better with understanding other people and she's much better with sending nonverbal behaviors as well. So when it comes to a conversation, she's going to look into and analyze the subtle behaviors of the other person beyond the word spoken, and us males, we're going to have a much more literal understanding of what's being spoken. So here's my opinion. So I like to separate research from opinion and I think sometimes us males, we may oversimplify conversations in our understanding and maybe sometimes females, they may overcomplicate or overanalyze conversations when it comes to nonverbal communication.

Speaker 1: 16:04

So those are some of the nonverbal differences and some of the biological reasons why, with the mirror neurons, with the interconnected brain, oxytocin and having a superior understanding in conversations and maybe working through something really difficult and emotional, why the woman is going to be having an emotional conversation based on what's being said, and men sometimes seem like not to give a shit because they're processing the language but they can't link the language and the emotion simultaneously.

Speaker 2: 16:52

Well, that's a very good summarization of it, with us males being much more compartmentalized. So one of the things that's been found is that it's a much more emotional, intense experience for females during social interactions. And if you're still not convinced that, there was also a study that's been done and they had people look at subliminal, negative faces. So you're looking at a face you're not even aware of it and it's a negative face, and females have much more activation in the emotional area of their brain as looking at a face that's negative, that they weren't even aware of, so at a subconscious level it kicks in as well than what males were. So it's much more of an emotional type of experience because she has all these things more interconnected together and higher levels of estrogen as well.

Speaker 1: 17:39

Now can we move to the actual verbal part of it.

Speaker 2: 17:44

Yes, so from an early age it's been found that girls tend to outperform boys when it comes to language ability, reading ability, writing ability. Boys they tend to have more language and speech disorders even from an early age. And for language itself, males tend to have more visual connections to words, whereas with females much more auditory and even doing like math problems, whereas with females much more auditory and even doing like math problems. Females tend to rely much more on the language use, whereas with us males much more of a visual. We could get into that in a second. So also, females tend to have a larger and more active hippocampus and one of the major roles that the hippocampus has is with memory. So that's why it's much easier. It's been found consistently episiotic memory is much better for females. So episodes, social interactions, what's actually the experience is much better recall for females than it is for males. Because of a larger, more active hippocampus is just one of it Also, with it being much more of an emotional, intense type of experience. Also, females have, in broadman areas 44 and 45, 20% larger and this is responsible for verbal fluency, verbal memory and having more interconnected hemispheres allows for her to express much more so and elaborate on topics. She also has more blood flow in the emotional areas of the brain during conversations and when the area is responsible for creating words, connecting words, sensory and contextual much more blood flow to those areas and it's much easier for her to focus on the detail with language associations as well. So the bottom line with all these is from an early age has been found that females are superior when it comes to language ability. So I think it's females need to understand that.

Speaker 2: 19:41

Us males, if we're asked a question, we just give a response that answers the question and don't tie in past memories or emotion. It doesn't necessarily mean that we're emotionally removed or we don't care. It's just more difficult for us because, one, we lack the language ability that a female does and also we can't connect all those things nearly as well. And for us males we need to understand when she expands upon a topic from what the current topic is to past memories to also tying into emotions, what the current topic is to past memories to also tying into emotions. It's not that she's off-track or off-topic. Tying all these things in together makes sense to her and she's not off-track or trying to attack us personally on other issues. That we feel is unrelated. It is related to her because all these things are interconnected and tied together. So we need to understand that she's not unfocused and she need to understand that she's not unfocused and she needs to understand that he's not emotionally removed.

Speaker 1: 20:33

All right, that actually clears up a lot. I would like to say does it, does it? But can we not say that, that that women read the room better than men?

Speaker 2: 20:45

I have a whole chapter on that, chapter 12, I think off the top of my head, and it's called women's sixth sense. So, um, one of the things that I think a lot of people have probably picked up on is that women are just much better at the understanding other people empathizing with them, their emotional state and other things as well. Some of the reasons behind that is that estrogen is highly related, okay, and hearing ability as well. So when do you need that? You need that during the childbearing type of years and then when estrogen decreases, hearing ability decreases and the social understanding decreases a little bit as well. But also in that chapter, chapter 12, women's sixth sense is that they're superior on all five senses and there's no comparison when it comes to it. They have a more sensitive.

Speaker 2: 21:41

Taste, smell, sight is the one thing that really captures my attention because literally females see the world differently than what males do. So if you see a color spectrum, of all these different shades of color, us males are only going to see maybe 20% of what a female can see, because color vision is on the X chromosome, and with females having two X chromosomes, that's an advantage. And then also she has more P cells in the retina and with the P cells it's responsible for color, vision and detail as well. So bear with sight, bear with hearing ability, bear with taste, bear with smell and touch as well. Much more sensitive to touch and much more sensitive to pain through touch as well.

Speaker 1: 22:29

Interesting. Yeah, and I think this lends itself to. Oftentimes women are, I know, with myself. Going back to that sixth sense chapter, I tend to be reading the subtext of conversations all of the time and what I've learned to do recently is just call it out. When I'm having a conversation with someone and you know I'm reading what's really going on and their sayings and I'm like it's not in line, I'll be like I'm reading the's really going on in their sayings and I'm like it's not in line. I'll be like I'm reading the subtext here and here's what the subtext is. But I think that that's where communication can get messy, right, because women are reading what's going on underneath the words and men oftentimes, I think, need to process that later, so they're just getting through the conversation and women can start to feel gaslit Like I know what's going on here and you're saying this other thing, but I know what's going on here, right.

Speaker 2: 23:29

So with us males, a lot of times if there is a conflict or a problem, we can often compartmentalize it and set it aside and then come back to it some other time. But with her it's just going to. The larger hippocampus is going to remind of different things. The emotional much more of intense emotional experience is going to overflow the different areas and it's going to stay with her and she probably needs it resolved much quicker than what he does because it's going to affect her overall well-being.

Speaker 1: 23:59

Before we move on to the next area of communication differences can you give me one or two strategies that our listener can take away today to deal with those differences when they are in conversation?

Speaker 2: 24:12

So one of the things that we talked about is that the conversation itself is going to be understood differently with.

Speaker 2: 24:19

Females are going to have a much more deeper understanding from the nonverbal cues and then also from the language cues that she's going to be able to elaborate much more so with details than what he is, even though the exact same intention may be communicated. Exact same intention may be communicated, but it's going to be more words from her, less words from him, and it doesn't mean that he's emotionally removed or that she's off track. So with that, those are a few strategies, but one of the chapters that I cover as well that I think a lot of relationship problems emerge from. At least that's what the research tends to indicate, and it's a communication dynamic that we've identified in communication for years, and in my book I try to identify some of the biological reasons behind it, and it's called the man-withdrawal type of relationship conflict and overwhelmingly the woman plays the role of demanding more out of the relationship and the man feels more personally attacked and he withdraws more. So I think we could all probably reflect back. What was it a year or two ago with the johnny depp amber heard and one of the things that came up in the recording trials itself was that she said amber heard on the one. The recording was johnny, every time we have a conflict you just get up and leave, and that's what led up to that big blow up of the birthday party that she had people over at the house he walks in didn't like something he just leaves for the night, and then she blew up that night.

Speaker 2: 25:48

So one of the things with that dynamic is that, uh, women need to understand that, um, it's much easier for her to process relationship types of information than it is for the male due to that better social understanding. And also she needs to understand that it's much easier for her to express relationship and emotional type of communication than that is for him. Just biologically it's much easier. So one of the things to understand is that he often contributes to the relationship by what he does and she often does it through the emotional investment in the language itself. So both need to understand what each one is contributing to the relationship itself. It's not going to be the same in terms of what they do, but maybe it's the same in terms of the investment itself.

Speaker 2: 27:21

So one of the things that can be done is that they found that touch prior to a conflict. So maybe holding an arm around the other person or whatever else that's been found to lead to more positive types of behaviors. What that does is it leads to more oxytocin. It increases oxytocin between the two people to touch prior to the conflict. So therefore you empathize with the other person and it's that bonding chemical is non-verbally is how much or how well does each person mimic the other person's non-verbal behaviors? Are there positive non-verbal mimicry of each other's behaviors? The relationship has gone pretty well. If it's not, or if it's negative ones, then the relationship is probably in trouble. That's one of the things that therapists look for early on how well are we progressing in the therapy sessions based upon how well are they mirroring each other's nonverbal behaviors during the sessions itself? So next time you go to a social gathering, look at the different couples and try to understand how much do they match each other's nonverbal behaviors?

Speaker 1: 28:32

Can you give a couple quick examples of nonverbal behaviors? That a healthy relationship. You'd see the mimicking in.

Speaker 2: 28:42

Maybe the walk. So maybe they have similar types of strides, maybe facial expressions having similar types of positive facial expressions, gestures, even gesture, and similarly itself, maybe even taking this, maybe a step too far, but maybe dress, maybe their appearance is similar as well. Proximity is a big one. So how they sit, how close do they sit to each other? How close do they stand to each other? So I also have a book, nonverbal Epiphany, and one of the things that I talk about is that you can control usually what's closest to you, the inner core, such as maybe your face a lot of times. But the extremities tend to tell the tale. So look at the feet. So where are the feet? Are they facing each other or are they having a conversation or facing each other with their face, but yet one foot is pointed towards the door. So that's subconsciously much more powerful, saying that's where they want the conversation to be is over and they want to be out the door and that they're not on the same page. Interesting.

Speaker 1: 29:44

Okay, I want to move on to intimacy needs. What are the differences between males and females?

Speaker 2: 29:53

So one of the things to maybe think of is in society itself. So we have a ridiculously high divorce rate and it's been found that much higher rates of a person who files for divorce over the age of 50 is followed by a female. So what happens over the age of 50, estrogen starts to decrease during menopause and what's that? That do that changes not only the woman, but changes the relationship as well, and it changes a whole bunch of other things, such as her sexual interest and her sexual drive as well and how much interest she has in relationships and social interactions, because that's what estrogen is related to. So it's not coincidental that when estrogen drops, that females have a much higher tendency to file for divorce than it does for males. So one of the things I think that we already talked about is that us males we don't pick up nearly as well on what's going on in the relationship. It's much more difficult for us because we're not as aware non-verbally and for other reasons as well. So therefore, she's going through changes that's going to change the relationship and we don't pick up on that. The relationship is changing and she's changing and we think everything's fine and she sees all the things that's not fine in the relationship and that's going to lead to problems in that relationship as well. So one of the things to keep in mind is sexual drive and sexual desire is different for males and females. So for us males we tend to have a high level of testosterone and that's for us related to sexual interest, and we have that at early age. It then peaks out at later 20s or whatever else, whereas with females it tends to keep increasing in their 30s as well, until that menopause starts to kick in.

Speaker 2: 31:46

There's some controversy or discussion out there in terms of what actually drives female sexual drive itself. Is it testosterone or is it estrogen itself? So for all mammals except for humans, it's been found that it's only estrogen. And for females it's been found that if a high amount of testosterone is artificially introduced through maybe medical procedures, then that increases their sex drive as well. But I suspect and this is just my opinion, so separate opinion from research is that that testosterone that's artificially high amounts, it's artificially introduced, it's converted into estrogen. It's that estrogen that leads to a higher sexual interest, a higher sex drive for the female themselves.

Speaker 2: 32:38

For us males, we tend to think about sex much more so throughout a day, at higher numbers and we find these visual images much more rewarding than what females do. So for us males it's much more simplistic. It's highly related to testosterone and it's highly related to usually what we visually see as well, whereas with females it's much more complicated. Since I'm on controversial topics, I'll throw another one out if you don't mind. Go ahead. Contraception there's numerous types of side effects that's been found with that that it tends to inhibit oxytocin and the reward brain areas of emotions as well when viewing their partner's face. So contraception use can lower the oxytocin that they normally would have and the reward sensation that they normally would have looking at their partner's face than if they didn't have contraception.

Speaker 1: 33:38

Are you saying men or women? Women?

Speaker 2: 33:43

So if a woman's on contraception, then she's going to have lower levels of oxytocin and reward sensations looking at her partner's face than if she wasn't on contraception. One of the things that has been found to help is cognitive therapy for women that talking through and having some sort of language, use of language, tends to increase the levels of estrogen as well. So engaging in conversations and going through some sort of talk therapy helps to increase her sexual drive as well. So one of the things to keep in mind is that it's not as simplistic for females as it is for males.

Speaker 2: 34:23

That language plays a major part is what I'm trying to say that social interaction, the relationship, all these things come together and play a larger part for females, also with stress that she needs to overall body, psychologically and physically, feel relaxed and feel comfortable with the partner than what the male needs to do. So if he comes home from work, it's not that difficult for him to maybe get in the mood and get ready in a short amount of time. But if she's busy doing other types of things maybe getting ready for dinner or taking care of the kids or whatever else all those things add to her stress level and distraction and it's going to take much longer for her to reduce all those stresses and anxieties and then be ready for the mood. So both people need to understand they're not going to be ready at the same time, and it's through communication that plays a much larger role for her than it does for him.

Speaker 1: 35:49

Right. So when you say ready, I mean getting ready to like, want to have sex right.

Speaker 1: 35:55

Yeah, he gets. He can be in the mood to bang much quicker than she can because she's got a lot of more stressors playing into it. And also what I heard you say is that language can turn her on. Having deep conversations, emotional connections through at least she's perceiving it as that through deep conversations that can turn her on. I know for sure. I was just talking to someone else about how, for me, like deep, intimate connection is a big turn on because it's hard to find and I find that through conversation and talking to someone who wants to engage in that way, which is very challenging to find that kind of partner in a dude.

Speaker 2: 36:43

And one of the things, just to give an example is looking at some sort of movie, is looking at some sort of movie, and if there's some sort of intimacy in the movie itself, she's much more likely to be aroused if she identifies with the character than if she doesn't. So, as you can see, the relationship and the emotional components play a much larger role for her than it does for him, and being more sexually stimulated as a result. So the social aspect is a much larger part for her than it is for him, and that's one of the things that he needs to understand is that emotional type of connection plays a large role prior to thinking there's going to be any type of arousal before anything occurs.

Speaker 1: 37:28

Right, you're going to have to dig deep and get emotional if you want to get in her pants, guys. That's the reality. So let's then move to emotional expression. I think this is going to be a big one, because I can't tell you the number of times I've heard men just talk about women being irrationally emotional, over emotional, and how it's irrational. X, y, z. Let's talk about the emotional manifestation and how it shows up with these biological differences.

Speaker 2: 38:01

One of the things that's been found rather consistently and for some reason it's not necessarily as well known as what maybe it should be is that the serotonin system has been recognized as being sexually dimorphic for over 40 years. So serotonin itself is used to help regulate emotions, the mood, happiness, and it's related to depression, sleep and memory. So all those things that are related to those types of behaviors and outcomes in psychology is sexually dimorphic, different between males and females. So serotonin itself, the amount available, how much it's synthesized, how much it's metabolized Females it's much slower for them to synthesize it. It's much lower levels of activity. It's even been found that females even have lower levels of serotonin in the brain.

Speaker 2: 38:57

So what that leads to is it's been found rather consistently that females tend to be diagnosed with depression and anxiety at much higher levels than what males are.

Speaker 2: 39:07

It's uh in the social, uh social learning research.

Speaker 2: 39:10

It's always explained as because females are more likely to go to therapy. But there's biological reasons as why that I think they're much more susceptible to anxiety and depression itself by their biological makeup, having lower levels of serotonin available. Anxiety and depression is linked to has been found on the X chromosome, having two X chromosomes versus one, and then also testosterone has been used to treat depression, and with males having 20 times higher levels of testosterone, you can see how that can help combat depression than with females having lower levels of it as well. So the bottom line with that is is that females tend to have higher susceptibility of anxiety and depression than what males do, based upon these biological, the serotonin levels, the X chromosome, testosterone as well, and then also having more activation in the locus coriolis, which is responsible for emotional processing. So therefore, during a social interaction it's going to be much more intense emotionally for her than it is for him, and it's also been found at much stronger depression is linked to a hormonal shift for her and much stronger connection than it is for him.

Speaker 1: 40:25

It sounds like what you're saying is that the female is going to be more likely to have sort of a stronger emotional reaction and express that than men.

Speaker 2: 40:38

Yes. So when she engages in a conversation with someone and she sees the emotional state of the other person, that's going to activate that area, that locus coriolis, and that's the area of the brain responsible for emotional processing. So processing these emotions is going to be activated at a much higher level for her than is for him. So it's going to be much more intense emotional experience for her than is for him. If it's something negative, it's going to be much more negative for her last longer for her than it is for him.

Speaker 1: 41:12

Oh, that sucks for me. Yeah, that's my input right there. So now we know women do express more emotion than men and it sounds like even in some ways experience those emotions at a higher level than men do. So there is a gap right there that I think can lead to a lot of frustration, like men will be, like women are over emotional and women are like you are a feelingless prick. So what is a strategy that can help men and women bridge that? It's a difference. It's not that one person is one thing or one person is another thing. It's just, it's merely a difference in how also these things are expressed. So what is a strategy for sort of bridging that difference?

Speaker 2: 41:58

I think one of the biggest thing is to understand social interactions from the other person's perspective and not from yours. So understand that this social interaction is going to be much more emotionally intense for her and for us not nearly as much, so she's going to remember it much more so and for us, we're going to not remember the details nearly as much and we're going to compartmentalize it much more so. So she needs to understand that it's not that we don't care about the relationship. We're just not as equipped to emotionally experience it as what she is. And we need to understand that this is her overall experience of the social interaction itself and not just the facts itself. But emotion plays a much larger role for her and it's important for us to recognize that that's not insignificant and that's not, and we need to communicate that's being valued as well.

Speaker 1: 42:59

And legitimize it.

Speaker 2: 43:00

Yes, yes, that's what I'm saying. Okay, so legitimize and communicate that you understand what she's emotionally feeling, even if you can't feel that yourself on the same level. So some of the things that we already talked about the use of touch is often good because that increases the oxytocin level. We talked about mimic behaviors, because that activates similarities of the brain. That helps empathy. And then after sexual intimacy there's a difference. So males tend to be a bit tired and that sort of just ends, and for females it's an emotional experience from start to finish. So therefore, the talk afterwards and the snuggling afterwards and that bonding afterwards plays maybe just as big of a part than it does just the males enjoying the fun part that shows up differently between men and women based on biology.

Speaker 1: 44:11

Let's bring this conversation into bed. How is it affecting the sexual communication in bed?

Speaker 2: 44:17

So I think part of it is that she has a much higher need and a much higher desire for that type of relationship talk and for him, he needs to understand that that plays a large role with her and if it's important to her, it needs to be important to him. So self-disclosure that's one of the things that women like and that's one of the things that men find as being vulnerable, and we're not very good at it as well. So disclosing something personal and intimate about ourselves that's important to her for building that relationship and for us. We need to understand. Even if you don't like it, you need to do it for the sake of the relationship. So we need to understand, not to minimize what's important to her.

Speaker 2: 45:09

Put forth the effort, I guess, is what I'm trying to say, and a lot of that is through the communication and that intimate type of talk as well. One of the things that's been found is that when females have higher levels of estrogen during their monthly cycle, when they're getting near that ovulation, their face actually changes and the color tones of their face changes well, and males tend to pick up on that, and males actually self-disclose more when the female is more in her fertile state than if she's not. So maybe that could be of some use that if she wants to have an intimate conversation, time it when she's higher levels of estrogen during the month, because it's more likely to self-disclose.

Speaker 2: 45:59

And shame on you, fellas that, oh, you're all of a sudden ready to self-disclose when she's sexually peaking. But then when she's not sexually peaking, oh then you have no interest in self-disclosures. Shame on all of you.

Speaker 1: 46:11

That's right. I mean, that's funny that you say that, because I'm like nothing will make me more wet than a conversation with someone that I'm into who, like, is suddenly opening up and telling me their stuff, like I like. It definitely turns me on. It makes me feel close to them and want to be with them and touch them and then have sex with them. It's absolutely true.

Speaker 2: 46:32

Evolutionary, because you're much more invested in that type of activity, because you're much more emotionally invested. But if pregnancy does occur, there's a much heavier burden for the woman than it is for the man. So therefore, genetically, a much heavier burden for the woman than it is for the man. So therefore, genetically, you want to know more about who is this character next to you and you really want some of his DNA or not. And how do you get to know if you want that or not is through that self-disclosure. And then also, females tend to sniff out their partners through chemo signals. So it's that subconscious type of odors that we give off and that's what the dated type of stages that you go through.

Speaker 2: 47:16

It's usually the female that initiates it. So she sniffs out someone who wants, who is genetically different than from him, because she doesn't want too similar of dna. Because we all have recessive genes and if the dna is too close to each other, of match, those recessive genes are more likely to be expressed. And you're going to have someone born with a third arm or a fourth eye or something like that. So therefore she usually gets a subtle hint of maybe standing closer to the guy, longer eye contact or flirtatious with her hair or stands next to him for longer periods of time. He needs to pick up on that, because she drops it after that. She wants the man to take over and take the lead right after that. So again, we're not as attuned to those nonverbal cues Males aren't but we need to pick up on what those are, because she initiates it and then if we drop the ball and don't notice it, then she loses interest and it's over that. She wants us to take the lead after she initiates some sort of interest after sniffing us out.

Speaker 1: 48:18

Yeah, we don't want to do all the work, guys, we can't do all of the work, but yeah, that's very insightful. But yeah, that's very insightful and I think for guys to know that that is a big part of what activates our arologic differences, affect our ability to resolve conflicts. Because, look, you can nail everything else. You can nail the intro, conversations, learning to communicate, learning how to be emotionally open to each other, how to get it on in bed. But if, when hard things come up, you cannot resolve your conflict, well, you're fucked right.

Speaker 1: 49:15

It's the end of the relationship, because there are always going to be conflicts and in my experience that's where things like people have a really hard time figuring out. This big bad thing has happened. How do I fix it? How do I fix our conflict? How do we and I know this if a conflict isn't resolved, then it doesn't matter how vulnerable you get in bed. You know sex isn't going to happen, because when it's unresolved, stuff is a real blocker to especially women's arousals. We have a hard time getting aroused when that's out there. So let's talk about what are some of the blockers because of biologic differences when it comes to conflict resolution and how can we overcome those.

Speaker 2: 50:01

Since we have talked about a lot of limitations that us males tend to have. One thing that women probably need to be aware of is that us males tend to have. One thing that women probably need to be aware of is that us males being compartmentalized and having inferior language and social abilities, we need to be ready for that conversation. We don't like it to be sprung upon us and we like to be prepared. So we don't. So it may be building for her the conflict and if we walk right through the door after work or whatever she's ready to talk about because it's been overflown with her all day, and for us we're transitioning from work to home and we're not even thinking about it. So therefore, we take it personally and we think it's personally attacking us and we're not prepared for it.

Speaker 2: 50:49

So I think both probably need to acknowledge there's a conflict and set a time and a date in the near future of when to discuss it and what are some of the things that you want to discuss about that particular conflict itself. For her, she needs it resolved much quicker, because we talked about how interconnected she is, and for us, we need to at least have some sort of preparedness beforehand and not just sprung upon us. We don't like it, we take it personal because we're very delicate creatures when it comes to those types. Our ego is very delicate. Another thing is those personal pronouns. Let's try to minimize those and not use the I and the me, the you and maybe more inclusive terms of the we or the our, and then more the topic-oriented itself of what's the topic itself that's a problem and less so of the person itself, and then again trying to empathize and maybe understand from their perspective and list some of the things that you think that they're experiencing, and then talk about how some of your experiences may be a bit different as well.

Speaker 1: 51:55

No, I think a lot of what you are talking about is just resonating with me deeply. So, for instance, I am someone who, like I, can feel things processing all of the time at once. When conflicts are happening, the back of my mind is figuring out solutions, how to navigate things. I'm reading the room. I feel that in my body and I have noticed in relationships with most all of the men I've been in relationships with they aren't firing on all of those cylinders. Of course I don't understand that. And I read their lack of firing on at least come on two of the cylinders at once as like do you not care? Do you not get it?

Speaker 1: 52:40

One of the complications that comes into play specifically for me and I love that you brought up women need this shit resolved quicker. Like we and I have had partners who are just like, like you know, I need to process it. I'll get back to you in two days and I'm like two fucking days, like are you kidding me? For me, like waiting for that period of time to resolve something. It's like no, no, no.

Speaker 1: 53:07

And I think that's a good point Like it's not going to get better over the two days because you're going to give my mind time to roll over it and work through it and then read whatever I'm getting from you between now and then and feed into a negative narrative so it becomes complicated, right, like I get men. Men do seem to need, they need time to process. Sometimes it seems like their emotions come into play later, like the emotions are there but those don't activate until much later. Right, and between the time they hear the thing they're in the conversation, the emotions activate. You know, we've had the conversation, the emotions are activated. Now we're running with it. Like how do you, how do you fit, how do you deal with that? That is seems like how do you overcome that situation?

Speaker 2: 54:00

So I think one of the things you already touched on is that us guys we're not going to pick up on those subtleties. So if if it's not brought up that there's something wrong with the relationship, we're not going to pick up on those subtleties. So if it's not brought up that there's something wrong with the relationship, we think everything is fine. Where you pick up on those subtle types of things that are problems in the relationship. So there needs to be a realistic expectation that it's not that we don't care, we just don't see those problems. Again, this is going to be my opinion that I'm about to say.

Speaker 2: 54:28

But to some degree the women sort of are the relationship experts in terms of the barometer, engaging, the healthiness of the relationship and sort of. They need to bring up issues when there are issues, because not only do we not pick up on it, but we're very comfortable with being complacent in relationships and going along with what's working, because it's very comfortable, it's very predictable and there's not a lot of risk to it. So one of the biggest things is to understand from each and communicate that to each other. For her it needs to be resolved quicker and and for him that it needs to be a time set aside. So compromise not two days, but maybe one day where you can both do it, and another compromise do it in person as opposed to over the phone. So have some sort of compromise and understand where each person's coming from and why this came about. So for him, everything's fine, it came about, and for her she's picking up on these subtle problems.

Speaker 1: 55:36

There you go, guys.

Speaker 2: 55:38

Here's a question for you From a woman's perspective. What would you do it? As if he initiates it and brings up a relationship problem.

Speaker 1: 55:50

I love it, I love it.

Speaker 2: 55:52

There you go.

Speaker 1: 55:55

I love a partner who wants to process things, who sees something going on and cares enough to want to sit down and work on the relationship. It feels to me like he's valuing the relationship. It feels to me like he's valuing the relationship. What I think has hurt me often in the past is when it's clear that something is wrong and like I throw out all right. Well, here's a question back to you where I will be like throwing out words, but I'll be like this this thing is problematic, and I'll be asking for answers and I get back vague, vague comments, like I won't get a clear feedback. I'll be like how do you feel about this? What do you want to do about that? And I get non-clarity, vague feedback, vague response. And to me, what I ultimately ultimately? You know you'll hear women say it all of the time on social media if he wanted to, he would. If he wanted to be with me, he wouldn't make it happen. If he wanted to fix this problem, he would. If he wanted to move forward and and and be in love and and and create a life with me, he would. But instead I'm getting this uh, uh, uh and something I've created in my own life a true North, uh for me, so to speak, when moving forward in relationships and friendships and in jobs.

Speaker 1: 57:16

Lack of clarity, their lack of clarity, is my clarity, right, because if someone wants to hire me, they're going to let me know. If someone wants to be in a relationship with me, they're going to let me know. If someone wants to go out on a date with me, they're going to let me know. If someone wants to go out on a date with me, they're going to let me know. If someone's hemming and hawing about it, that's to me like their lack of clarity is my sign to move on.

Speaker 1: 57:36

If someone wants to fix a problem that we have, they're going to like make it clear, hey, like, can we sit down and talk? I'm sorry. Like, can we work this out? That? Sit down and talk? I'm sorry. Like can we work this out? That's clarity. But when I don't get that clarity and everything's vague to me, that's like you don't really care about me, because I know from my end of things, even when I fucked up, if I want someone in my life, if I want something to work out, man, I will go after it like a mad dog, and that's so, I guess, what I'm asking you, because women say this all of the time what are your thoughts around that? And this, this has to do. I have not heard this as much with with, with, uh, women to women, or whatever.

Speaker 2: 58:26

I would say that, not to over-emphasize that a lack of clarity means a lack of interest, that if maybe you bring up these type of topics or these subtleties and then, at the spur of the moment, if he's not prepared, then that's what leads to the vagueness, because we don't have the language abilities and we haven't had time to process it as well, whereas if you set aside a time and let him know exactly or generally the topic that you want to discuss and he's still him in the hall, then that's a different story, where he has time to prepare. But if it's off the cuff and we're unprepared, it could be various number of reasons it could be lack of caring, it could be lack of preparation or it could just be we just don't know how to handle it because we haven't processed it. So, again, having some sort of plan in place and preparation is what we need and having some time set aside as well.

Speaker 1: 59:28

This conversation has shed a lot of light from a biologic perspective on where a lot of the frustration and hurt like genuine hurt, like women are hurt right now by the state of how men treat them, react to them and are in relationship with them, and men are lost, confused and angry right About, about the fact that women are just like fuck you, like I'd rather be sexless, use a toy or try out women than have to keep going through this thing. And I think that you have laid out some and this is our conversation is removing also, like the patriarchy and social structure and all of that stuff but, but, but and breaking it down to the basics which you can see in some way are even overriding that structure.

Speaker 1: 1:00:22

And there are so many solutions in just looking at specifically and you know it's funny, out of all the things you've told me that how um, from the communication to the emotional difference and and sexual and and arousal, but what it all really comes down to, for me the heart of it is um to understand how, the difference in how we're processing things, how quickly, and how much is going on for women, because that can actually be an asset in a relationship If you both know it, acknowledge it and harness it.

Speaker 1: 1:00:55

And then that men like are compartmentalizing and that they can do things very strategically, that can also be a strength. But he needs to have empathy for her Like it cannot be you're just crazy, you're just this or that. No, she's not. She's like actually brilliant in what she's doing and she needs to be like he's done. You know it can't just be you're a dumb ass. It has to be like you need time and I have to learn patience and self-soothing while you process, which is really really fucking hard self-soothing while you process.

Speaker 2: 1:01:29

Which is really really fucking hard, I think, is that he needs to understand what's something that's really important to him personally and that's what emotion in the relationship is for her to grasp and understand how important that emotional aspect of the relationship and value is for her.

Speaker 1: 1:01:48

I want to close out with just some quick solutions, things that we can start implementing today, tonight, to help and let's focus on men. What are strategies and solutions that you can start working right now that are going to help you improve in your relationships with women and dating them, your relationship, getting them in bed? What are some things that we can start doing tonight?

Speaker 2: 1:02:14

So one of the things that he needs to understand is that she wants to be valued as a unique individual, so she wants him to understand her at a deep level and not have to be told these are the things that she likes or dislikes, or interest or emotional state. He needs to find out through conversation what are those things that lead to positive types of emotional experiences for her at a much deeper level. And one of the things that he needs to understand also is to self-disclose. I think that's one of the things that women get frustrated on is that he doesn't self-disclose personally and emotionally nearly as nothing. He needs to put forth more effort into doing that. I actually put in a study in my book. I find it a little bit funny that there's now a company when there's a holiday that they'll actually write the greeting card for you. So write the greeting card for the guy to.

Speaker 2: 1:03:19

to understand is how important that deep emotional connection is for her, and the way to do it is through communication itself.

Speaker 1: 1:03:38

Some other things that I think you listed in and hit on is the empathy building. Men can work on building empathy and practicing how to show it.

Speaker 2: 1:03:51

And one of the things that he could do also is, during a conversation, bring up some of the things that she's talked about now or previously, and that's a way of showing that you're listening and not only listening, but you understand where she's coming from and why she feels the way that she does and trying to empathize with her as well. So trying to bring up some of the conversation, some of the details, some of the things that she's talked about, shows to her that you're invested in it and also that you care about her as a person and you understand her. I think that's one of the biggest things is that women want to be understood as a unique individual, and one way to do that is through the conversation of bringing up some of the things that she's talked about before and showing that that's important to you because it's important to her.

Speaker 1: 1:04:45

Yeah, I love the idea of really listen and then grab some of those things and show her you've heard them and ask maybe more questions.

Speaker 2: 1:04:54

That's, that's so to you what's more important to you going to a fancy restaurant or going to a restaurant that he knows you like?

Speaker 1: 1:05:03

Yeah, like take me where you know something I like I don't care if it's fancy Like take me where you know something I like, I don't care if it's fancy.

Speaker 2: 1:05:11

I mean, if it's fancy and I like it great.

Speaker 1: 1:05:12

But yeah, like showing that you care about something and I've said I like, and taking me there.

Speaker 2: 1:05:17

Yes.

Speaker 1: 1:05:18

Yeah, or doing anything that you know that I like yes, or asking me to do something. I find one thing that happens a lot in relationships is I will like if I'm with a partner, I'll end up doing a lot of the things they like Because I'm like, of course, like I'm always interested in what other people are doing and I'm like why wouldn't I want to try?

Speaker 1: 1:05:39

I mean, I've tried so many things like disc golf was the last one I learned and I have fun, but at some point you're like hey, I've told you I like to go to poetry readings and I've told you I like to do this thing. Why don't you? You know, like it would feel really good if you were like hey, annette, I bought tickets to this thing because I know that you're into it and I want to see what the world's like through your eyes, right, and even so, if you didn't say, it's straightforward if he picked up on it because he saw poetry on your wall or something like that.

Speaker 1: 1:06:14

Like pay attention, pay attention and and like I know, in my dating life there was a period of time, um, when I mean I must've gone on hundreds of dates. I would leave the dates knowing everything about these men, and they wouldn't have asked me anything, like it would blow my mind. I'm like you don't even know who I am. I know everything from like your childhood to your first girlfriend. You know, like all of this stuff and you know, and as I'm learning all this, I'm also reading like who are you? What are you about? You know all of that's happening and they leave and I'm like.

Speaker 1: 1:06:46

I'm like what did you learn from this? Nothing, but another thing that you brought up that I want to focus on and then then we'll have to go, which is unfortunate because there's just so much in this conversation. But you brought up validation, validating and and like. Of course I think that it's. This is a great tip for men validating women's experiences and feelings, even if you aren't seeing the same thing. Right Understanding that you are missing a lot of the subtext. I can think of lots of times when I've had partners and something really bad has happened, like people have treated me poorly or something has gone wrong in a work situation or whatever. And I take it to my male partner, who maybe was watching or was there, and I'm like can you believe X? And I'm upset and I'm hurt, and they're like oh, I didn't notice that. I think you're blowing it out of proportion.

Speaker 1: 1:07:39

And I'm just like dude now I don't like you either. And then I don't feel supported and I feel alone and I'm like why do I have a partner If when the worst or not? Well, if when the worst or really bad things happen to me or when I'm hurt, they then just make me feel stupid for being hurt.

Speaker 2: 1:07:57

You know, I think that part of it is that's something that guys need to work on is understand the importance of emotions itself. That's just because it plays less of a role for us doesn't mean that it plays less of a role for her. One of the things that's. One last bit of information is I like to look at this as pieces of a puzzle and not to overemphasize just one piece. So just not one thing that's said or one thing that's done, but look more comprehensively all these different pieces of the puzzle together, of what's been done, numerous things, what's been said, numerous things, and not just rely upon just one piece of information and making decisions over that. So look at us more holistically and less individually.

Speaker 1: 1:08:51

And to end this, can we discuss really quickly we talk about emotions not being as important to men. In my experience and I am not, I by no means have your knowledge and background I mean men have emotions. It just seems like they come at weird times. I'm like now you're emotional about that. I mean they experience deep emotions and deep pain. I just don't know what the anatomy of that is or when that happens. Can you help for women who are listening, or even men, because oftentimes men are like oh we, we aren't emotional and if we let out our emotions we would just be violent. Can can you speak to like the emotions that men do have?

Speaker 2: 1:09:37

Yeah, so I think part of that is that, um, it just doesn't uh, it's not as emotionally intense for us. So therefore it's fewer things that are emotionally arousing one way or the other for us. So therefore, it's fewer things that are emotionally arousing one way or the other for us. So that's probably that's what sticks out is those things that it does come out because it's fewer for us. So when it does happen, then it's a more impactful type of experience than something that's more routine.

Speaker 1: 1:10:08

Makes sense. All right, guys. Well, you have been given the rundown on. You know a bird's eye view of the biologic differences and how they play out and how you are talking to women, and you've got a lot of tips on how to navigate that. I have the book here. It's fascinating and I mean I felt honestly, I felt like as I was reading it I'm like damn right, I am better at that. So as a woman, it made me feel really good about myself. But I think it will also just help people understand each other better. So the sex talk book right here. And can you tell listeners where to find you and check out all your stuff?

Speaker 2: 1:10:55

Well, for my books, the easiest place to go to is Amazon and then the books category, and then just type in my last name, Furlich F-U-R-L-I-C-H, and then it pops right up. And then I also have a a website, drstephenferlichcom, and there's a few activities on there that people could do that's related to my research in the regions themselves, and you can also send me an email from my website that I'll get. And that's one of the things that I find most gratifying with uh doing research and uh talking on uh on a podcast is when people can actually relate to it personally and apply it to their own lives. What's research-based? So there's a lot of information out there, but what's the quality of information and how can you actually relate and use it? And that's one of the things that I find most gratifying is if I can make a difference in someone's life. There's a lot of conflict out there. If we can help reduce it or better relationships or whatever else, then that really makes me feel good inside.

Speaker 1: 1:11:56

I love that Me too Well. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Speaker 2: 1:12:01

I enjoyed our conversation and how you were able to relate to the different topics that came up from research and the different questions that you had. It was enjoyable, the whole experience.

Speaker 1: 1:12:15

Yeah, same here. Thanks so much, and to my listener, until next time I'll see you in the locker room. Cheers Ring loop.