Navigating Trauma and Therapy: A Journey of Healing with Ailey Jolie MCP, MA

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The conversation covers a wide range of topics, including therapy, trauma, embodiment, and the impact of social media. It delves into the experiences of Ailey Jolie and her journey from the entertainment industry to becoming a therapist. The discussion also explores the challenges of hyper-independence and the differences in how men and women process emotions and trauma.

What happens when a seasoned entertainment professional decides to pivot towards a career in therapy? Join us on "Starve the Ego Feed the Soul" as we sit down with Ailey Jolie, who shares her transformative journey from the spotlight to the therapist’s chair. Ailey opens up about her personal battles with trauma and how these experiences have fueled her passion for helping others heal. Her unique perspective illuminates the therapeutic process, the embodiment of emotional experiences, and the challenging, yet rewarding, path of assisting clients through their own trauma.

Ever wondered how social media shapes our mental health, or how dropping out of multiple grad programs can lead to profound self-discovery? This episode with Ailey tackles these topics head-on. We dissect the impact of living under public scrutiny, struggling with eating disorders, and the vital importance of transitioning from public personas to authentic selves. Ailey and I get real about how disconnecting from social platforms can lead to both isolation and growth, especially in the context of modern dating and relationships.

Get ready for an enriching exploration of the profound differences between online self-help content and the individualized nature of therapy. Ailey introduces us to the Internal Family Systems (IFS) therapy model, highlighting its significance in integrating our internal parts. We also critically examine the cultural nuances in how men and women process emotions, the pitfalls of hyper-independence, and the importance of community and self-awareness in today's world. Don't miss this compelling conversation that promises to leave you with fresh insights and a deeper understanding of mental health and personal growth.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

Keep pushing, keep pushing, keep pushing. And I need you to be a minister for a moment and find somebody sitting in your general vicinity. Look them dead in the eyes if they owe you $20, and tell them neighbor, whatever you do, keep pushing, keep pushing, keep pushing, keep pushing, keep pushing. It's hard to keep pushing in the world that we're living in right now. How is one supposed to find serenity and sanity and strength in the world we live in right now.

Speaker 2: 0:45

I keep pushing. Hey everybody, welcome back to Starve the Ego Feed the Soul. I'm so excited for this week's. I keep pushing on for you guys to be able to donate to the show. I try to keep the show as little or as ad free as possible and we'd love to honestly make this my full-time gig if possible too, although that's a long time looking down in the future. So if you want to support the show, if you love what I'm doing, if you've been a listener for a while, you can click the link either in the show notes here or go to my Instagram and head over to the link tree right under my bio, and you can donate up to three, four, five, six, seven bucks, 10 bucks a month, whatever is within your means. If you have the means to donate, I'd really appreciate that. It keeps me being able to do what I do here and again. If I can keep the show ad free, that would be absolutely wonderful. So if you want to be a supporter of Starve the Ego Feed the Soul, just head over to that link in the show notes or go to my Instagram bio and become a monthly supporter. You are much appreciated. Also, I still have the Star of the Ego Feed the Soul shop open on my website. So if you're interested in buying some gear whether that be a sweatshirt, a tank top, a crop top, a t-shirt, a water bottle stickers there's so much cool stuff out there on the shop that it's been around for a couple of years now and people still order and buy from it. If you buy something, please take a photo of yourself and share a photo on social media and tag me at FeedTheSoulNB on Instagram. Also, if you love this episode, if you love any of the episodes in the past, please share them on social media. Please get them circulating. Make sure to tag me if you share them on Instagram. It is very much appreciated. I want to get as many episodes out there as possible to people. There are so many gems hidden down in the over 50 plus episodes I've recorded already. So if you love one of them, if one of them is your favorite, share multiple of them and make sure to tag me as well too. And you guys are very much appreciated for supporting the show and sharing things as well. Can't thank you guys enough for the support.

Speaker 2: 2:41

So this conversation covers a wide range of topics, including therapy, trauma, embodiment and the impact of social media. It delves into the experiences of Ailey Jolie and her journey from the entertainment industry to becoming a therapist. The discussion also explores the challenges of hyper-independence and the differences in how men and women process emotions and trauma. Ailey Jolie is a practicing therapist. I had an incredible conversation with her. This conversation was recorded over eight months ago, so apologies for not getting this one out and specifically apologies to her for being so late on getting this episode out, but, as you all know, I took a long break from recording and from producing, so really happy to finally get this wonderful conversation I had out with Miss Ailey Jolie.

Speaker 2: 3:22

Ailey Jolie, thank you so much for joining me on Star of the Ego, feed the Soul. I know it's been an absolute journey to connect on the internet and I just want to say thank you so much for your patience. It is clear this woman is a therapist. She's incredibly patient and incredibly forgiving because I messed up on our last date. So thank you for being here and I'm glad the internet's working out and we're not recording this in the bus, because the internet walked out on the bus and I moved the studio to inside the house. So I just want to let everyone know out there on the interwebs this woman's awesome already, even though we haven't started the interview. Thank you for your patience.

Speaker 3: 3:53

Of course it's so nice to be here and we made it, and I know sometimes that can be like truly the hardest piece is just getting there.

Speaker 2: 4:03

We made it. We're here, and especially for two busy humans on the internet doing a lot of other things. So, again, just really appreciative. Thank you for saying that. So you know, we spoke about this off air a little bit and most of the times especially with counselors or therapists, people in the mental health profession, relational space. I want to know, like, how they got into doing the work they're doing, because it's quite unique and obviously it's growing in popularity as more and more people sort of understand that therapy is super beneficial and it's becoming less and less stigmatized as the years goes on, specifically for men as well too. But I want to know from you, like how did you end up doing what you do in the online space and in real world?

Speaker 3: 4:40

yeah, I mean, as we kind of spoke about before, hopping on the cliche of like I went to therapy and became a therapist is somewhat true In my case.

Speaker 3: 4:51

I spent a lot of time in the entertainment industry as a child, either training to dance and then spent time modeling and some time on screen, and while all that was happening was I was experiencing a lot of trauma and a lot of abuse, and those industries really gave me an outlet for my creativity.

Speaker 3: 5:14

Being able to work with my body, specifically as a dancer, allowed me to process my own trauma, and so the climax of all that stuff that was happening was when I was just turned 19. So I would have been 18, had the opportunity to represent Canada at an international pageant, said yes and kind of found myself in this place of a lot of disembodiment and a lot of pain and kind of this realization that the entertainment industry wasn't where I wanted to be and so left and went on my own journey of reconnecting to my body and that eventually you know, through many trials and tribulations around where I wanted to position myself If that was as a physician kind of spent some time prepping for medical school, doing a little internship XYZ, found myself eventually becoming a therapist.

Speaker 3: 6:03

Spent some time prepping for medical school doing a little internship, xyz found myself eventually becoming a therapist and a lot of the things that I work with today.

Speaker 3: 6:09

I'm really transparent with my clients and how I try and show up is that they're things that I've struggled with. It's not that I landed here because I was just intellectually curious or wanted to know about a certain modality or a certain life experience. It was because I was trying to metabolize my own lived experiences and for me and not for everyone, but having an intellectual framework of reference has been the kind of synthesis ground for me to then make sense of my own experiences and kind of process things um, in my body and so, um, if you look into me, you'll kind of see there's like a trail of academia and stuff. That is that process of my own um healing journey, if we use that language. And yeah, that's kind of what led me to be a therapist was wanting to understand why I had the pain that I had and how to make sense of it in a way where I could be repurposed into something much more beautiful than just a story of triumph.

Speaker 2: 7:15

I love that. I think I have a very similar experience with academia, as I was looking for ways to give back and to help people but also find meaning, and so I've said this on the show and it's on my website too.

Speaker 2: 7:25

I've dropped out of grad school six times been seven, you know because I was looking for ways to give back, and you know, I lived in this colonialist culture where it's like, well, you have to get a master's degree and then a PhD and then to sort of be have enough wisdom to give back to people, and not that. I think higher education isn't incredibly amazing for many reasons but, as you already spoke to, in my mind the best therapists are the ones that have had actual real life experience with what they're helping with, because they can more readily relate to it. Right, I mean, we can read textbooks all day, and there's some incredible books out there that teach us a lot about the human psyche and the human condition, but we'll never fully understand it through a book because it is so nuanced. I mean, there's trillions and trillions and trillions of different micro experiences that happen every nanosecond, right, for every human being different, and everyone processes trauma different, every trauma is experienced different and you know, it's just, it's sort of this, this thing that we're all like trying to figure out, whereas the figuring is inside, which is kind of how you're explaining. Like my own healing journey of coming here is like having these different experiences and trying to rectify and understand my own trauma, and where I'm searching for meaning in my own life and then coming back full circle and wanting to help others do that too.

Speaker 2: 8:31

It's super intriguing that you come from like the entertainment industry, because that industry is very surface for most part, right.

Speaker 2: 8:37

It's very like what do you appear on the outside, right, like who is the caricature you play? You know, what do you look like, what is the facade you hold up? And it's like that for a reason, obviously Right. But then you kind of came full circle and now it's all about the inside and I'm curious, like that transition from, I guess, what you felt like you wanted in life from like the external value of the things you're doing. How was that? Because I feel like the goal and I can relate to this just because coming from the pro athlete world and then switching my complete focus to really doing more deep inner work and helping people with that, even though I was always passionate about that, it wasn't like what I was showing the world as opposed to now it is, after I had a really big cycling crash how did you, how did you sort of go through that transition internally for, basically, I guess, changing who you appear from to the to the outside world?

Speaker 3: 9:34

Yeah, I love this question. Um, and also I want to just name I'm super curious about all the graduate programs you've dropped out of, because I've dropped out of so many PhD programs. It's like a running joke. My friends are always like just bothering me about how I get accepted, and then I'll try it out and I'm like, no, it's not the best fit. And then I'll like go apply for another one the next week and they're just like girl, like just we're the same.

Speaker 2: 10:01

We're the same person.

Speaker 3: 10:07

I have the same. We're the same person, I have the same friends, yeah, um. So if I will answer your question, so when I was miss canada, um, after the pageant and we went out for dinner and I was very severely living in the experience of an eating disorder, and so this was quite rare for me to go out and I looked around and I noticed the level of exploitation that was happening around me and kind of the unspoken agreements that were going on around if I give you this piece of my sexuality, I'll get this currency of power from these men in the room. I wanted more and the whole time I was in that kind of bubble of experiences. I never felt like anyone really cared who I was, and I did have direct feedback and direct comment around that it was like you're here to do, to be seen and not heard, and this is your value. And when I saw that kind of playing out that night, it was a very quick, very easy for me. I'm leaving Europe, I'm moving back to Canada, I'm going to university.

Speaker 3: 11:09

This part of my life is dead and done and I didn't deal with it in a way that I would deal with it today. I didn't have a lot of grace. I just essentially stopped answering phone calls and stopped answering emails and deleted myself fully off of social media. It was like one of the hardest times of my life, specifically being in that industry where you receive a lot of feedback and a lot of praise and a lot of validation for for fitting the image or being superficial or or being in the mold um, to then really take myself away from all of those things.

Speaker 3: 11:43

And I had this like incubation period where I would say for about six years, almost essentially, I was completely didn't exist to the world.

Speaker 3: 11:52

I was completely offline. I just had my own inner process of really being like who am I without this consistent validation? Obviously, I'll never be able to escape the privilege of living in this body and all that comes with that. But I could then start to shift into but who else is in here? Because I don't think I knew who that was, because I had received so much feedback of what everyone saw. And that is a lot of the work that I do with clients today working a lot with creative people, a lot of people who are in those industries, who receive a lot of praise for the external image or the external offering but maybe internally don't have that relationship yet. And it's still a struggle because we can't control how we're viewed or perceived in the world. But it is something that was quite challenging and it was one of the darker times in my life of trying to reconcile what the world saw and what I felt inside.

Speaker 2: 12:50

Yes, I can imagine, because I felt like I went through that with sort of the transition from going into being an athlete and to do what I'm doing now, but also even going through a severe injury obviously sort of a different circumstance than what you experienced, but it really was identity crisis for most parts.

Speaker 2: 13:06

Right, I lost my partner at the time. I had every intention on marrying. I had, uh, you know, a severe, like traumatic brain injury. I had like loss, uh, you know, use of my right arm for a while because of the injury I had during the crash. On that, and I kind of ran into this thing where I actually did like get off social media entirely. I think it was for almost a year Like I deleted a bunch of accounts. I didn't delete my Instagram, I just like deactivated it, I got off everything.

Speaker 2: 13:31

And I think it's interesting because I feel like it was a double-edged sword, like it disconnected me from, probably people I could have, you know, lean on a little bit more. But it also took away, you know, just the distraction from running from my emotions and running from stuff while going on social media and mindlessly scrolling right. Even if I was looking up accounts like, like yours, or like therapy accounts to like help heal, a lot of times I would get stuck in that pattern of like well, I'm just scrolling through all this information and I'm not actually ingesting it and using it to actually feel better or to like more understand the problems I brought in the relationship, or you know the problems that I like ran away from in myself, or how I'm dealing with the physical trauma that I'm going through. And I think you know because of that break, it was extremely hard. You know, especially, we live in this digital world. That's how we connect with so many people.

Speaker 2: 14:17

You know so many people ask me about dating apps and my view on dating apps and I'm like, well, it's a tool, it's how you use it right. If you want to meet people through that, that's wonderful, you know. If you don't, that's okay too. I don't think it's anything bad nor good. Just like I view social media Although now I'm kind of curious in your perspective on how you feel like social media, Because I do find myself sort of feeling more and wanting to just write more and write more physical books, Because when I'm on social media a lot, I'm also like, ah, I just feel like this is kind of a waste of my time to an extent, but like I want everyone to still in me is like it seems still like a distraction to like actually going out and living life and having real relationships and hugging people and making mistakes and falling in love and like living, and everyone's kind of hiding behind the screen being like, oh well, so-and-so said this is a red flag.

Speaker 2: 15:09

So I'll find like 30 red flags in this person every time I go on a date.

Speaker 3: 15:15

Yeah, the realm of like Instagram or pop Instagram psychology. I think it definitely runs that risk. Any belief that you have that you want to get validated, you will find someone on the internet to validate that belief, like you will. That's fine kind of like with just therapies, maybe a little bit self-help, self-development stuff online. Is that specifically for therapy? It's quite personal and it's quite nuanced and it's quite unique and it's actually the.

Speaker 3: 15:53

The essence of what makes therapy so profound is the relationship, yeah, and so reading a beautiful quote is great, it's going to feel great. Having five tips and tricks, great, love that. But that's all just up here. It's not actually embodied based experience it's. It's very different to sit across from a psychotherapist that you've known for a year, two years, six months, whatever, and for them to look you in the eyes and go you're being mistreated. Yeah, that's gonna have like a somatic, embodied experience where you're gonna go potentially like, oh shit, I do deserve more scrolling past like I don't know. A hundred instagram quotes they're telling you are being mistreated aren't going to give you that somatic resonance of like someone sees me, someone hears me, someone cares.

Speaker 3: 16:44

And I in social media land have struggled. I feel like now I've found a place where it's for me it's just literally I'll just sit down and write for 20 minutes and then I post the thing and I just walk away and that's all it is. And thankfully that people like that and that works and it's helping people. But there's a big difference between how I work as a psychotherapist and how I show up as a writer in a platform and in a tool that, for me, doesn't feel like it honors nuance and slowness and patience. And yeah, does that answer your question?

Speaker 2: 17:22

I, I'm assuming you kind of feel similar things I, I do, and it really it's kind of like it. It takes a very special human being to write for the general public in a very applicable therapeutic way, because you just mentioned like nuance, like absolutely being in session with someone and getting to know them over four, five, six, seven, eight sessions. You, the advice you give a person, might be different than the next person. It might not be the same type of advice. So when we talk about red flags, or about even the process of being hurt or perceived right or wrongs, or okays or not okays in relationships, it might be different from person to person based on their tolerance and based on what they're looking for and based on what they're offering. Right, and I find that a lot of times you get this like bandwagon effect on social media where everyone's like, oh yeah, like this person's writing to me because I feel like I have a connection with a stranger on the internet and so everything that they're writing is I'm going to see in this echo chamber and the silo. I'm like, yes, this is going to apply to me in my life and I'm like, well, it really depends, because this person has no context on your life.

Speaker 2: 18:24

It might feel like it really applies, but they're really writing to the general public and, based on our own trauma and our own sort of subconscious and perception, we can take that and then make it like kind of twist it a little bit and make it our truth and put it in back. Oh, it's, it's. I'm going to use this to kind of hide, or I'm going to use this to make excuses, or I'm going to use this to cause a little bit more pain because I don't have a lot, I don't feel like self-worthy for this right, a lot of different things, and I'm throwing these random scenarios out, but I think that's what happens in our psyche. A lot, where we're sort folks gravitate towards being comforted versus like huh, that's actually making me think about my own shit, which is really what therapy is yeah, and I understand the desire to be comforted when, specifically after covid, like the lack of community and connection, that people would really really want that.

Speaker 3: 19:19

And in therapy land we do, kind of our therapists that are, you know, very comforting, very nurturing, have a lot of that like there's a lot of love and support there. And then you have therapists like myself or maybe I'm self-identifying, maybe I'm mis-self-identifying, I don't know what my clients say, um, or what all of them would say, or majority who. Yes, I have a very naturally soft voice, a very like nurturing energy, but I'm sharp and I think that oftentimes comes across in my writing is that I have an edge because I actually care more that you get it and that you hear what you're saying. I'm actually not saying anything new in my sessions. I'm just listening. I'm actually listening to what you're saying and I'm going to say it back to you in a moment where I think you're going to hear it. But I'm actually not really saying anything new.

Speaker 3: 20:14

I'm not giving you your advice, I'm just repeating back your words and it might hurt yes but I'm more interested in you hearing yourself than in you staying here with me forever in the nurturing bubble yes and some therapists are like people genuinely do need that nurturing bubble. That's just not how I've been trained and and, to be honest, it's not what worked for me. I needed someone to be like okay, like you're doing a lot of shit over there. Uh, you want something different? Uh, let's talk about it.

Speaker 2: 20:47

It's funny you say that because you know I have an intake session, obviously, before I agree to work with any client, right, and in the intake session it usually comes off across some social media too. But I'm like you know, just to let you know like the way I work with people is I'm going to provide compassion, I want to provide a safe space for you Absolutely At all times, but the way I work is like you want to change something. That's why you're coming to me. You want sort of desirable results and to get those, like, I'm going to have to be bluntly honest with you. What works for me? Right, and it just like you know, not everyone likes the same ice cream. Not everyone should work with the same therapist, right, there's different people that work with different people. And I'm very honest with you.

Speaker 2: 21:31

When most people come see me, they're like oh, I totally already know that, this is why I'm trying to work with you. Or people will be like you know what I actually need? Someone that's just going to listen and hold more space. And I'm like I totally understand that and respect that, right, and let me help you find someone. Or maybe you already have someone in mind, right, but I think it's really important because I think we need different types of therapist counselors throughout our lives, depending on where we are. And that would make sense, because not everyone has all the answers.

Speaker 2: 21:56

Like I tell everyone, like I'm not in here with all the answers, I'm a human being that has been hurt, that has caused pain, that has made mistakes, that has had great moments, and I will continue to be that human being. Right, and the whole goal of me being in here is to help you see yourself in as much unbiased light as possible so you can be like, ok, I can see that I've been hurt and I'm running from trauma, but maybe I can also see that I've been playing this dysfunctionous relationship. I've also been, you know, short-sighted, I've also lied, I've also sort of done these things that have hurt someone else. Let me see from their perspective, right, I think, the more empathy and self-awareness we can build within the therapeutic session. Usually, like nine times out of of ten, the person walks away with an improved life and improved perspective on their life because they're going to finally make the decisions that are steeped in their truth and not their trauma and yeah, learning the discerning difference between those two things is so can we talk about that?

Speaker 2: 22:55

because I would. I would love to talk to you about that, because I made a video on this like two years ago and it got a ton of views because people were like they had not heard it, they had not heard their perspective a lot, which I was curious because I was like for me, like so many people talk about truth on the internet and it's like live your truth right, like embody your truth, and I'm like, well, what your truth is is literally running away from healthy things and running towards unhealthy things.

Speaker 3: 23:26

like that sounds, truthfully, quite bad right yeah, I oftentimes would hear this, like with clients or even in myself. I don't need to reference clients, but definitely I had a phase where I was like all the spiritual things, whatever that means love and light I'm just speaking my truth, I'm just.

Speaker 3: 23:47

I'm like. Now I look back I'm like, no, you're just being emotionally volatile in a situation with someone who just cheated on you. That wasn't your truth, that was just like you being, just like dismissing bad relational behavior or hurtful relational behavior with some spiritual language and I love. One of the modalities that I oftentimes work with is internal family systems and for me that's been so helpful of like all of my different parts and internal family systems is a modality. If you're listening, who don't know that?

Speaker 3: 24:19

Just honors that inside our psyche we all have different parts. How we're going to show up at work is different than how we'll show up with our family, and those are different examples of parts. And I bring up ifs because you know different parts of you are going to have different truths and are going to want to say different things. And and then how do you hold the complexity of different parts of you, wanting different things, saying different things, and trauma is also different parts of you. Parts of you hold those experiences of trauma and how do those things all merge together and can you have the consciousness to go?

Speaker 3: 24:53

A part of me thinks this. A part of me says that this is my truth and a part of me is saying the opposite, and maybe actually there's some wisdom in the middle between those two statements. And for me, when I hear a client starting to do that, I get really excited because I'm like they're about to leave the nest, just like they're about the bird is about to take off. Because for me that's such a sign of integrated well-being as being able to hold the complexity within ourselves, our own system and in our own selves without judgment.

Speaker 2: 25:27

Beautiful, you know you.

Speaker 2: 25:29

You spoke about this before we started recording, but about how you're, a lot of people don't expect this, but your clientele is pretty much split like 50% male, 50% female, right, and I'm curious when we talk about somatics and being able to feel you know your, your feelings, or to feel where we're sort of stuff is bunch of inside.

Speaker 2: 25:47

You know, it's been my experience that, at least culturally, especially in Western culture, that men are usually a lot worse off in this respect, because most of us are not encouraged to do that at a young age, right, and not to say that women don't struggle with it too. But just speaking from the male experience, it seems like a lot of my male clients, like a lot of them, have never been really told. And especially for me, like raising my own hand, I didn't really know anything about somatics until I've stumbled upon a book, reading about it, and I'm like I've never processed my feelings that way. I've always been like I have a feeling, I'm going to put it in my brain and I'm going to think about it, and I'm going to think about that feeling until literally I can't think anymore about the feeling. Um, but somatics kind of has a little bit of a different perspective about how to process that and can you get into that and maybe the differences that you notice within within the sexes, within, like how we process things?

Speaker 3: 26:39

yeah, I've noticed, as you were speaking, a first thank you for sharing, but had a wave of emotion of just um, one of the gaps maybe third wave feminism or another gap I was noticing of third wave feminism. Yes, we've created a lot of spaces for those who are femme identifying to kind of have this inner inquiry, to have language around trauma. Trauma is quite language to be quite femme, um. But as you're speaking I was like, yeah, again there isn't language for men or or those who are men identifying, to kind of have that embodiment based experience, like embodiment is quite femme language in and of itself and I noticed with my clients who are male identifying um, they're actually quite, uh, quick to do the like in and out kind of thing.

Speaker 3: 27:37

They'll give me the thought, they'll give me a sensation, they'll back to the story. It's just like super quick, and so it's really slowing down that process. I have noticed that they're actually very receptive, though, to being in the body, um, whereas oftentimes those who are found my day identifying are a little bit it's a little bit more resistant. Most of my my male identifying clients are very, very open to going into the body once there is a place and an invitation and a little bit of a map of how we do that, and that it's okay to do that. Um, but there I mean, there's a lot of stuff there, um and you'd be able to speak to it so much more around masculinity that specifically keeps men in an intellectual bubble A lot of times by the time a male identifying client comes to me. They've already worked with several therapists around that stuff, so I do want to acknowledge that I probably have a very biased population sample for you.

Speaker 2: 28:56

You know I can already tell you're a brilliant therapist because you're self-checking your own bias just in the interview, and that really is what makes an incredible. Therapist is someone that's like you have to's literally like the understanding of how you know our own life experiences obviously influence the advice we give. And really trying to separate those two things, while still gleaning on the experience to sort of advise from, but not allowing it to, you know biasly sort of lead someone to make a decision one way or the other. Right, they have to find on their own, based on what, what their life you know unfolds and what they want in their life.

Speaker 2: 29:29

And this process of transference and counter-transference in the therapeutic session right, and I think that when I I've never heard a therapist do this live on the show, but this is brilliant because you basically are saying like, yes, this is what, like it appears to be. But again, my experience and the data pool I'm pulling from is small and unique to me and I realized that it might not be everyone else's experience. And in that process is how we get empathy, because we understand that our experience is not everyone else's but we can certainly relate to someone's that might have a different experience than ours and be like, wow, I could see how they could be feeling this or interpreting this differently, because I can potentially think about having been in their shoes, which is different than my shoes.

Speaker 3: 30:12

Yeah, especially now where my practices and the male identifying clients that I have are a very different version or presentation of masculinity than the dominant narrative and I feel so blessed that that's what's in my practice, what I'm experiencing.

Speaker 3: 30:37

And I say blessed because every time I get to work with one of my male identifying clients I feel like I get a somatic imprint of that in my body and then I can take that to my female identifying clients who are oftentimes coming for sexualized violence and it feels like in this like weird kind of youngie and analytical way, it's like they are harmonizing and you know, kind of by proxy giving these different experiences, because I'm going to have a giant bias, unconscious or conscious, that oftentimes people who've experienced sexualized violence are going to have a giant bias, unconscious or conscious, that oftentimes people who've experienced sexualized violence are going to find their way sitting across from me, even if my marketing isn't there, just based off of my own lived experience. Yeah, and that is, I think, also being able to see your bias is also kind of I go back to that IFS thing of like holding the parts and having awareness of all, as more and more parts as you grow of like these ones are gonna think this and this and okay, I can hold that.

Speaker 2: 31:35

This is skewing my perception right now because I have different parts that have different experiences going on right now no doubt it's the tension of the opposites, right, and we have so many of the opposites within ourselves based on our experience.

Speaker 2: 31:46

Like the athlete hat I wear the super competitive hat, you know often thinks a little bit differently than like my therapist hat, right, those are sort of opposing things, but they sort of help each other as well too, depending on what I'm trying to understand. I think that it's just this brilliant dance that we have inside of us as human beings is like, you know, we're trying to stay balanced. Well, we have sort of different experiences pulling us one way or the other, and I think the process of like really practicing more self knowledge, self wisdom, self uh, you know, just peace inside, is really being able to sit in that storm and balance those tensions and opposites. We'll still loving ourselves at the same time trying to grow and improve as well too, which seems to be a hard balance for most people, you know, because you know it's like, yeah, I want to be better, but I'm supposed to love myself and accept myself, but I also want to improve on these things, you know.

Speaker 2: 32:35

And you're like tiptoeing on this line of like love self, but also want to change the bits of self and that's, yeah, that part place of like.

Speaker 3: 32:45

Of course, there's pieces of me that I know can do this a little bit better, but that doesn't mean that how I'm doing this right now is bad or wrong, because I'm holding the awareness that there's a drive for something different, and that's actually a level of consciousness that, very sadly, just like capitalism and hyper independence like stopped so many people from accessing and that's definitely something that I um really got time away from when I had those six years off social media, whatever it was you thought that market is like, oh, yes, okay I want.

Speaker 2: 33:22

I want to talk about hyper independence in such that I know you have to go shortly because I had to move my studio, but do we have a couple more minutes just to?

Speaker 2: 33:29

chat about that. Okay, so the hyper independence thing you know, we, we've built this culture that, uh, is like Dr Angela Twenge term, the generation me, where it's like we're focused so much on like me, me, me, me, me, my wants, my needs, my life, sort of. You know, my, my security, which is fine. There's the absolute, absolutely needs to be, absolutely needs to be focused on. But we've also got away from community in a sense. We've also.

Speaker 2: 33:52

Even when I look at most relational questions on the internet, it's all about like me, like this person did something to me. I feel this way. Now I'm looking to feel better about it. I don't often find, but still sometimes someone's like I hurt someone else. How can I be better? How can I admit wrong? How can I learn how to apologize Right? How can I offer someone, you know, a sense of safety after I did something wrong, and I'm wondering if one that's been your experience. But also the second part of this is like do you think, do you think that this like hyper individualized culture that we've built, do you feel like it's shifting out of there a bit? Do you feel like we're still fully stuck in it and where do you think we're going?

Speaker 3: 34:35

I don't know if we're shifting out of it when I think of some of the platforms that we use to communicate I don't know if they're necessarily built for us to have that type like they flood us with adrenaline and oxytocin and cortisol and all these like really good, feel good, feel good feeling hormones and neurochemicals.

Speaker 3: 34:56

So then to actually like read content and be like, oh, that like hurt thing I've done, I don't, I don't know.

Speaker 3: 35:03

I do think the cracks of hyper independence are being exposed when we look around the world around us.

Speaker 3: 35:10

I mean, I could give lots of examples of that, and what I will reference is my own personal experience of I noticed my life really changed when I started being really honest about the ways that I had hurt other people, the ways that I was shadowy, the shit that I've done that I'm definitely not proud to name, and just held it and was like, yeah, me too, like I've been there and I've been there and I've done that and it is what it is, instead of trying to pretend all that stuff wasn't there and been like more focused on them out there, finally being like what's in here, um, and how is maybe these parts of me, um, maybe they're enacting, not directly me. I don't believe that people are mirrors or relationships are mirrors. I do think they can act as reflections to maybe parts of us that we've repressed or denied. But I don't think necessarily attract alike attracts like, and I do think that can maybe start to break down some of the hyper independence pieces. It was so lovely to chat with you today.

Speaker 2: 36:20

Thank you so much. I know I was like man I. I have so many follow-up questions and at some point I know you're very busy I'd love to have you back on because I'm just like I want to get into, cancel culture and all these things with Ailey. She's got so many so many ideas on this. Thank you so much for coming on. Before I let you go, can you tell everybody you know where they can find you, how they can get involved with your work?

Speaker 3: 36:39

I know you're working on some writing right now and there'll be some details about that coming out soon, but I like to keep it pretty simple. You can find me on Instagram at Ailey Jolie. My website is also Ailey Jolie A-I-L-E-Y-J-O-L-I-Ecom. That is also my email, ailey, at Ailey Joliecom. There's nothing complicated going on here, so I'm pretty easy to find. I work with clients online and in person, if you're living in the United Kingdom or if you're a resident of Canada, for therapy, and then I do mental health coaching, oftentimes with people who are living outside of those two places, depending on what they are bringing. Nice, lovely to spend time with you.

Speaker 2: 37:22

Thank you so much for taking the time and speaking with me today.

Speaker 3: 37:25

Enjoy the rest of your day. I wish people could realize all their dreams and wealth and fame, so that they could see that it's not where you're going to find your sense of completion.

Speaker 2: 37:44

Everything you gain in life will rot and fall apart and all that will be left of you is what was in your heart, in your heart, in your heart. Thank you so much for tuning in. To starve the ego, feed the soul. Please leave us a five-star written review on apple and spotify podcast. It's a free way you can give back the show and show your support and, as always, if you want to work with me one-on-one, head over to wwwnicoborazacom.