HCE on the ground: How Community Folx In the Bronx Integrates HCE

In this episode, host Chris Nguon connects with Rasheedah Brown-Harris, who might very well be the most important guest we have ever had on the CARMA Chronicles. Rasheedah sits down with us straight from the Bronx and offers a beautiful and authentic look at how Healing Centered Engagement has impacted her, her family, and her community in New York City. 

Rasheedah is a Parent Leader with the Parent Action Committee (PAC), a resource and supporter for caregiver wellness, a staunch advocate for all things right for young people and their caregivers, and a Healing Centered Pioneer who became HCE Certified along with a handful of wonderful community members, practitioners, and caregivers in 2022. And that’s just in her time away from her primary job! You don’t want to miss this conversation.

Transcript

Chris: Peace y'all. Welcome to the Carma Chronicles podcast, where we speak to the nation's leading healing center practitioners. I'm your host, Chris Nguon, and today we are in conversation with Rasheedah Brown Harris, who quite frankly, y'all might very well be the most distinguished guest we've ever had on our podcast so far. And I'm going to tell y'all why. See Rasheedah's laughing right now. But I'm going to tell you why. Number one, Rasheedah is a parent leader who works with healing center schools in the Bronx and all throughout New York City. Rasheedah is also a mother, education advocate and a key member of the Pale Parent Healing Ambassador Initiative. That's amazing, y'all. That was so dope that we're going to get into today. And a whole bunch of other hats that she wears. Rasheedah is on the ground working with parents every day in the communities, talking all things and working through all things healing centered engagement. Our conversation next.

Chris:  Rasheedah, happy holidays. Thank you so much for joining us on the Carma Chronicles podcast. How are you living today?

Rasheedah: Yes, yes, yes. Peace and blessing. We made it. We connected. It took a minute but we're here and I'm here. Thank you so much for having me.

Chris: And thank you so much for being here. I know your schedule is jam packed because all the community work that you do and just holding space as a mother. Leading your family as well. So my appreciation goes deep to you and I am excited that we finally get to connect. One of the reasons is we going to flip and connect on this west coast, east coast slang. A lot of [01:40 inaudible] from New York, not that the hella is down here, over here in the Bay. But it's going to be a beautiful conversation that we're going to have. And I'm so excited to get into all of your experiences with Healing Center schools in the Bronx and New York, Rasheedah, and the parent-led initiative that you've been part of. But just to kick off, it is holiday season. We're leading into 2023 and the world of healing center engagement, we think aspirationally, we think with meaning. We think with love, we think with what is possible. So for 2023, Rasheedah, just for yourself, before we even get started on anything, what in 2023 are you looking forward to? It might not be like New Year's resolutions or nothing like that. Not really, but just in 2023 in community, what are you excited for?

Rasheedah: Straight to me. That's crazy, I was just talking to my colleague this morning and I was like, I'm not going into the whole resolutions or whatever for the New Year, but I know for a fact that I got to brush up on my Spanish, like Spanish language. I took it in high school many, many, many years ago. My daughter's 12 years old, she's taking it in school now, and it's all just coming back to me like really working with her. And just really being in the community with a lot of Spanish speaking families. I recognize the need and I was like, I could do this. I could do this. I got this right. I could do this. So I really want to get into it and just get better with my Spanish speaking skills. And so I'm focused on that. I ain't going to touch nothing else, Chris, because we're going to be here for five hours. But I just spoke about that this morning and it's just still sitting with me and I'm just like, yeah, I got to do, I can do this, I can do this. 

Chris: That's a beautiful thing. I love it and I know in your heart and your spirit, it's not just for yourself, but it's for community as well. So being able to brush up on your Spanish, which is part of your ethnic background as well, part of your lineage, part of your generational health and wealth. Also always connects with community, which is why I hella appreciate you. So I feel that, brushing up on the Spanish in 2023, that's a great aspirational lineage in how you're going to frame 2023 always in community too. So thank you for sharing that Rasheedah. For sure. Now, as we think about healing centered engagement work, as we think about healing work, because we know, again, to lift up our healing center pioneers who are listening, there's healing work, which can't really be defined because everybody's healing journey is a little bit different.

And then there's healing centered engagement, which is the framework towards our restoration, towards our healing journey. Rasheedah, just to jump right into it. I'm so curious and I really want to get into the parent Healing Ambassador initiative that you were a part of in New York City, specifically the Bronx. We on our side Flourish Agenda is so excited that you were able to support and engage community in this way and we were so impressed and proud and just honored by how community held space for each other in the Bronx City New York. Can you give me and give us a little bit of a summary and a rundown of what that Parent Leader initiative was, how it impact the community and how it's still showing up right now in December, 2022?

Rasheedah: December 22, that's where we are. Let me see. Thanks for asking. Well, first of all. I'm here representing the Healing Center School's Working Group and the Healing Center School's working group we're a coalition of parents, students, educators, advocates and mental health providers really working together to just bring healing-centered practices to our schools. And so we fought hard, years of research and listening sessions to really work with the Department of Education. That's our New York City public school system, department of Education. I'm going to refer to them as DOE. And so we really fought hard to work with the DOE because there was so much we can do on our own grassroots. And so we finally were able to really collaborate with the DOE in ways that no one ever thought would happen.

And so the DOE launched the Parent Healing Ambassador Initiative which really did engage with parents and were able to identify parents to be the parent healing ambassador for their school. And the Department of Education leans on us as the Healing Center School's working group to really support the work in ways that they know that they can't do. Because we are on the ground, because we Have our ears to the streets, we're in the streets. So we're able to connect with the community members and engage with them and pull them in in ways that they weren't able to do. And that is the missing piece. That was the missing piece. That's the missing piece when we talk about community, when we talk about true collaboration especially with these school systems, we need to have the community members, the students, and the parents at the table.

So we need to have these collective discussions and not leaving anyone out. And I know that our work as a healing center schools working group brought that to the table and was able to show the DOE how it can work, was able to show the DOE how important, just continuing to listen to our community members and include them, how far we can go with it. And our parents and our caregivers, were able to see that we can work together with our principals and with our superintendents. And I say that with a smile because I'm like, historically there's just always been this divide and it's always been us against them. And it just didn't make sense when we all, like these are still our babies.

And so these are our babies, these are our children, and then we send them off to school, and then now the school has our children. So why aren't we connecting? And a lot of the families felt shut out. They felt disrespected and not heard. And we were able to bridge the gap and have these meetings and hold these spaces and put them on the agenda. And we were able to have, a lot of the school administration listen to our parents and our caregivers in ways that they've never done before. Of course, because we have the buy-in from the DOE central staff, the higher ups because of this initiative that they launched. But it worked. It worked in our favor, it worked. It's still working. Because we were able to show how it should be done and all of the parent healing ambassadors just really took the space and better themselves and their households and their families first.

And they were able to take it to their school community to really connect and share with their fellow parents and fellow caregivers. And just elevate the work in ways that we are just so happy and proud of because we support them with building up their advocacy skills and just being able to speak up and speak out about what's happening in their schools, what's not happening, what should be happening and how we can work together to get it done. And they're doing it. They're doing it. And so we're happy and proud about that.

Chris: Wow. I have so many questions and thank you so much for that summary. That is amazing. Truly amazing work. And just hearing, I've heard that before, but hearing it again, I swear the hairs on my arm is just really rising up about just how excited I am that community has really taken charge of how they're going about this. One of the things, Rasheedah, that we always run up against when we're working with community with healing centered engagement is the institution. And how I'm framing that is we know levels of harm and healing has to happen in three levels in our healing centered engagement framework. The individual level, which you've touched upon, the interpersonal level, which you've touched upon, and the institutional level. And in your summary, one of the things that you said is this working group and these group of parent leaders and community was able to work with the DOE in ways, never thought possible. 

How were y'all able to do that? How are y'all able to build just this beautiful, it sounds like working relationship with the Department of Education that seems and continues to be so fruitful. I know there are a lot of answers to that, but in just your specific case, how were you able to aspirationally make that happen along with the community leaders in relationship with folks up in the DOE?

Rasheedah: I mean, I guess I would say honestly, Chris, the pandemic has, this is a broken record. It has highlighted the inequities in our school communities and the injustices done to our children. But childhood trauma has just impacted our Bronx students and our community members way before covid. And so we've been advocating for this change for a very long time. But after the trauma of the COVID 19 pandemic, a healing centered education, it just became more critical. So we were able to really just jump in on that, where everyone was just trying to adjust and readjust and folks were suffering and trying to process and not know what's happening, especially with our babies and the schools and the school system. 

The Department of Education has some good folks in central who really looked around and said, wait, this is it, this is the opportunity for the Healing Center school's working group to come in. A lot of them knew us. A lot of them heard us. A lot of them met with us. We had official meetings, we had unofficial meetings. We had a lot of folks on the back end like, yo, just keep advocating. Just keep pushing, keep fighting. Like, y'all got, I could do but so much, but y'all are on the streets. Like, y'all are on the ground. Y'all are doing the work. Just keep coming to these meetings. Keep submitting your testimonies, keep giving the proposals, keep going. And we did, we were going to do it regardless, but to hear them say it was like, alright, like there are some good folks in there who really want to make it work, but they don't have the power. I guess I'll say it like that. But post pandemic, everybody was trying to find ways to improve the SEL, the social-emotional learning. 

How to really focus in on mental health wellness. And we had the folks who were just hearing us and just being like, we remember the Healing Center Schools working group, let's call them, let's do this. And so that's when they were able to really just meet with us and collaborate and really try to find ways to incorporate a lot of our suggestions. And one thing I didn't mention is that the Healing Center School's working group, we released a community roadmap. The community roadmap is a model to help schools address childhood trauma and its impact on learning and remove school structures that harm our students and community members, and really invest in structures that help students heal. And so our roadmap describes key principles of healing-centered education. It gives numerous examples of healing-centered educational practices, including academic and behavioral practices, and describes how school can engage in effective organizational change that centers students, parents, and frontline staff. 

And so we have folks at the Department of Education who were familiar with our roadmap, who read it through and through, and who knew that when the opportunity presents itself, it would be a great time to just pull us in and really work with us. And that's how it happened. Honestly. They had a moment to figure out some funding and I say just like that, to give staff, because it's like the staff, everybody stretched thin, but to really dedicate some staff to like, work on this initiative. And they partner with us. Well, yes, I would say they partnered with us. Oh, I say we collaborated. Because they did a lot of things. And rolled it out a lot of ways that we might not have agreed with. But we rolled with it because we know the greater good is all about just moving that needle. Just a little bit in the direction towards healing center practices in our schools and whatever that means we'll be there. 

May not agree with everything, but we're there. And that's really how it came about. And all of the folks who were involved, the department of Education staff and everyone just really opened their eyes to the work and understanding how important it is. And that's how it was able to grow. And we was able to get buy-in, from a lot of folks who and any other time would not have dedicated as much resources to it, but they knew and they saw the importance of it. So that's how that came about.

Chris: Wow. So, hey, look y'all, when I said at the top that Rasheedah might be our most distinguished guest, I think y'all can tell right now why, right? This is for real. This is real work on the ground, Rasheedah. So thank you so much for just laying that out and sharing that and all of those beautiful things. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it y'all. I'm curious, how has the response been? Because we're going to get to the caregivers in a bit, because I want to spend the majority time on the beautiful parent leaders that's in the community doing the work. But the teachers, the administrators, all the healing center schools that you work with now that maybe have been able to see a little bit of that roadmap, how has their response been and what are you hearing from some of the folks on the ground who are working with young people every day in a more professional context now? What are some of the beautiful things that you are hearing about them and some of the things and strategies that they're implementing now with their young people to create more healing conditions where healing can happen?

Rasheedah: Yeah, it's crazy because when you have such a large school system and you have such a huge population of children from just different walks of life, just dealing with so much and bringing so much to their schools, the teachers are stretched. The school staff, they're just stretched. They don't have enough time, they don't have enough resources. And you have some really good school staff who want to do the work, who know the importance of the work, but just don't have the time or they don't have the support. And when I say support, in a lot of these schools, it's all about the test scores and they're just focusing on academics and I'm doing air quotes. The misbehaved child just got to go because they're disruptive and they don't have the time to figure out how to support that student or those students. We talked to the educators and the school staff members who tell us off the record, what's happening and what's not happening, what they need. 

And it's really unfortunate that we have so many that's speaking off the record. And you have a small group who's on the record. We have a small group who are very vocal, who advocate for what they know they want and need. But it's not easy. Because a lot of them, they just have got to fall in line and they know they're not equipped and they see that their school leadership is not supporting them with the professional development and really carving out time for the training and the feedback and the discussions.

But that's what they want and that's what they need. If they didn't have the pressure to focus in on school or test scores and other things, they would be able to really slow down and work on this work and bring him and set their practices to their schools. But it's a struggle. It's a struggle. Folks that we've been working with who are doing the work are, but they're just beautiful people. That's the only way I can put it is that you could just tell who knows the importance of it in ways that they don't turn it off and turn it on and turn it off.

Chris: That's them. That's what they do.

Rasheedah: That's them. So it's like, we can't change everyone. Folks are going to be who they are, but we could remind them in a loving, respectful manner, that might not have been the best way to approach that student. That might not have been the best way to hold that space, but they got to hear it from us and they got to hear it from their administration in a supportive way. Not in any kind of punitive or placing blame or complaining. And that's the key for us with the Healing center schools work, with the school staff is that they feel supported and that they feel validated in ways that we're not trying to come in and tell them what they're not doing right. How they should be doing their job, but really just supporting and reminding them of the importance of slowing down, the importance of really listening to your students and or creating an environment, Chris, to have this for the students.

Not every staff member's going to be able to do it. But knowing and recognizing that we need an environment where our students know who to go to, where our students know who to talk to or our supportive team that can come in and just really support everyone, a whole school. That's what we see. That's what we know a lot of our school staff and educators have expressed it also. Like if we had more supportive services overall, just overall, not just that one or two, or not one or two, not just those selective few students who are like, huh, dealing with this, dealing with that. We got this student that's living in temporary housing. We have this student newly arrived families that are going through this and going through that.

This one's just lost their parent and so you're naming all of the extreme cases. Whereas all of our families are going through things. All of our students are going through things and some are more extreme than others, but if we create an environment and supportive services around all of them to really just reflect and process together in a circle, that's what we need. That's what we want. And a lot of our educators recognize it. They may not be equipped to do it. They may not want to do it in the way that we need them to do it, but they're willing to work with whomever can support bringing this to their classrooms.

Chris: Yeah, absolutely. No, that's real Rasheedah, so, so real. And shout out to our teachers, our administrators, our educators in our schools and afterschool programs everywhere, every day working with our young people. One of the things that come to mind for me, Rasheedah. Y'all working with a lot of schools now, mainly in the Bronx, but in all boroughs across New York City for the school, or two maybe that comes to mind, that have really embraced and had the resources dedicated for this work. If you're thinking of that school in your head, and I asked this more general question, if I were to walk into a school, elementary school, middle school, high school, whatever it is, or after school program, and they are a healing centered school, or they're striving to be a healing center school, what would I see if I'm walking onto that campus? What would I hear? What would I feel?

Rasheedah: You're going to feel the love. When you step foot through that door you're going to feel the love. You're going to see it in the colors that we've used to paint the walls, in the decoration, the affirmations and the energy from the school staff. You're going to enter the school and you're going to be greeted and welcomed in ways that just seems so easy. Like it doesn't feel like it's hard, but so many schools don't do it. So many schools don't have that welcoming committee at the door, the principal or parent coordinator or assistant principal, just school staff, they're welcoming you. But our schools who are really on a path to bring healing center practices, they have that. They welcome you. They meet and greet you. They bring you in.

They hear you, they welcome you. That's first and foremost. But then you'll see it in the students. You'll feel the students just happy, joy. You can just see everyone paying attention to one another. And just engaging with each other. It's just a big community. It's a big community. And that's what you see and feel throughout the hallways and in the classroom. And then when it comes down to work, you see folks, you see our students helping each other and just working with each other and the teachers and the colleagues, it's just teamwork. It's just one big community. And we don't have a lot of yelling. We don't have a lot of yelling and screaming.

We have a lot of active children. We have a lot going on. But we just have ways to address and support each other in checking in and really just supporting the children, understanding what's happening and what they're doing, and just ways that just brings joy to my heart every time I think about it and I see it, and I know this is not rocket science. This is what we need. This is what our babies need. All of our children, this is what school should be like. And so lots of inclusivity, different languages. One thing I did not mention when we were talking about the Healing Centered Engagement Certification course, some of our parent healing ambassadors completed through Flourish Agenda with the support of the Department of Education and their funding.

We have one community leader Shannon, who really, really worked with our Spanish-speaking parent healing ambassadors. And I mean, went through the entire certification course with them translating and interpreting every step of the way, holding study sessions and support sessions in Spanish. And really supported our Spanish speaking families to complete the certification course, the flourish agenda, which would've never happened under any other circumstances. We didn't have this Rock Squad Shannon to do so. And the parents told us in so many different ways in tears, like we never feel included. We'll always get the memo 2, 3, 4 days later in Spanish. We'll get the interpretation just stops midway in the meetings. And no one knows what's going on. And so it's just like, they say they would've never been a part of this program the way they were if it wasn't for the support from the Healing Center schools, working group from Shannon, from our working group member. 

I got to officially hook y'all up with her. Like, y'all got to connect with her because the work that she did, with the translation and the interpretation, that's beautiful. But our schools, and it's the same with our schools. So just always including the different languages and cultures and being real responsive to our community members is all healing centered practices.

Chris: And one of the things, I love that you bring it up and Rasheedah, feel free to push back on this if I'm saying it incorrectly. But I hear a lot of agency in what you're describing over the last 30 minutes and what we talked about and one of the things you said that really stood out to me, and first of all, thank you for sharing Shannon's story as well. I would love to link up with her as well. That we are not going to change everybody. That's one of the things that you said, people are going to be who they are. And we are not trying to change everybody, but to be a healing center space. A healing center school, a healing center initiative, a desire to be healing centered, or more healing centered. It doesn't have to be everybody and it can still be healing centered. So there's a level of agency that comes with that. Would you agree with that? Is that something that sounds accurate? Because it seems like it was just folks on the ground who just didn't take no for an answer and they really made it happy.

Rasheedah: Right. Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, we were suspending kindergartners in New York and it's just like, that just couldn't go on, we just had to fight and push back and say like these are our babies. We've got to find different ways to meet them and connect with them and really support them with whatever support they need, suspension is not the answer, detention is not the answer. Kicking them out of school and all of that is not the answer. We've been pushing for years and I mean, we've made a lot of strides. I mean, we supported the change of the disciplinary code for New York City. And it's just still so much more work, but it's just folks, if suspension is the answer, like if suspension is the only solution they have, that's what they're going to go to. Or teachers are going to say, okay, this kid can't sit still. This kid can't da, da da da. Suspend it, right? When that's off the table, now what? We can't suspend this first grader, now what do we do? And so then that's when the work comes in to really support, understanding how to really work with our students, to work with our children and less punitive measures. And that's the change.

Chris: And that's the change. And as a parent leader, Rasheedah, and again, one of the things we say, you wear multiple hats, multiple hats throughout the course of every day. How has this experience you've seen change parents, through these healing center work and healing centered initiatives in New York City and in the Bronx? What are you hearing from parents and their perspective that has added to the work and some of the pivots that they've made that has really enhanced and strengthened their own families and their own lives as well?

Rasheedah: Yeah, like I said, our families, our parents and caregivers were able to process themselves. We created space for them to start to understand their own work within themselves and their households first. Which is not easy but necessary. And some got it quicker than others, which is how it is. That's [29:28 inaudible]. But powerful, powerful, powerful, powerful. But parents and caregivers are just starting to understand different restorative justice practices and different ways of self care and crisis intervention and just powerful. We're focusing on anti-biased workshops as well. And for people to just start discovering their own biases but discovering in a way that they're reflecting and say, okay, yeah I guess that was kind of wrong. 

But it's beautiful because that's the work and they have expressed more than once how much it saved them in ways where it doesn't feel real to me. I'm just like, our meetings, like our meetings are our meetings. But our meetings, Chris, like our agenda, it would be like welcome, intros, share, collective breathing, community agreements, share. And that could take an hour. Because when folks start sharing, we don't shut them down, we listen. And the space and the energy is just different. And they tell us that every time. Like, oh, we love your meetings, we come to your meetings because it's the only meeting we come to. And just be real and just be heard and just connect with other folks, like-minded and just build off of each other in ways that we're not all about okay, here's that agenda. Okay, what time is it? We got to go, let's go the next. 

No we're not, we just keep it as real as we can. And they love it and we love them. And I just feel like it's not that big of a deal. But when they tell me and they let us know. They tell us all the time, like, this working group, healing center school working group means so much to them. Everybody want to do so much more, just faster, just as much as they can. We want to hurry up, I want to put it in this school, I'm going to put it in this school, I'm going to go. But then they realize and they recognize, and it's something that we always do, elevate is the importance of slowing down, the importance of just really understanding this work and just doing it and rolling it out in the schools with fidelity.

We don't want to set ourselves up to fail but it's just not happening as fast as we want it to. But when those parents and caregivers come back and let us know how much it's changed them and changed their lives, we just inspire each other. I have this parent healing ambassador she's just amazing. And we've been kicking it the whole time and struggling financially and I'm trying to figure out and she just said, you know what? I don't have my GED, I don't have a diploma, I don't have. And I was like, alright girl, it's alright. What we got to do to get it? And she's like, nah, I'm already on the course. I'm already taking, I just haven't had time, just [32:42 inaudible] whatever. So every month now and again, jus kind of nudging, friendly nudge, like, what's going on with this? What's going on with that? Do a little bit here. Do a little bit there. She knocked it out. She finished it, she knocked it out. And she was like, yo, it took me so long, because I just kept, not that she kept procrastinating, she just had life happening. 

Chris: Life, I would say. Yeah. 

Rasheedah: But just the continuous, like, just encouragement and inspiring and just reminding her that she got this and she could do it and just do a little bit here and there. She knocked it out and she was like, yo, like I just, yeah. That's just one story, one of many, Chris. The way we connect with folks and just hear them and meet them where they are, and let them know that we got this together. We're doing this together. You're not alone. And I think that's key. I know that's key for our community, for our parents to know that you're not alone. Call me, call us, like, we're going to be there for you. Let's figure it out together. You don't have to go through it alone. And it's helped them in their work and their advocacy, like I said, and deepening their understanding and trainings about youth centered engagement and what it really means, what it looks like, and it's just transforming their lives and then able to just trickle into their schools and in the meetings and the spaces that they're in with their schools, with their school administration and just really being able to bring it up and talk about it. Ask questions. Yeah. And follow up. 

Because we have a lot of schools that say, oh, we're doing this, we're doing this, we're doing that. And then we have our parent healing ambassadors and our parent leaders who are raising their hand, like, what is exactly what, what are we doing? When did we do this? Because then we could talk to our babies as well, and they'll let us know like, nah, they not doing it. And then we could bring it back in a way, like, might not be happening the way y'all are presenting it, but it's okay, we're going to work good. And we're going to make it happen where our babies actually know it's happening. We can't say we're doing social-emotional learning, and we're make it space for our children. And then we ask them and they say, no, no, I don't feel safe. I don't feel protected. I don't feel heard. I don't have anyone to go to. So there's a disconnect, and it's up to us to really make the connection and really just form that bond and create that community. 

And our parent healing ambassadors are able to do that. And they're trying. Some are way more successful than others. And a lot of them are struggling. There are a lot of barriers. And that's when they come to us, that's when they turn to us and say, look, I need support and we're there and we're finding ways, to really help them and help the schools.

Chris: Wow. Wow. That's beautiful. Thank you so much for that, Rasheedah. And let's say I'm a practitioner. I've taken a certification, let's say I'm in California right now, or Oregon or Washington State or Idaho, whoever's listening right? Overseas, we have some overseas listeners as well. And I'm so inspired by what y'all doing in the Bronx right now, Rasheedah, I'm so inspired by how you describe how parents are being held and how y'all support each other. I want to start something like that in my community, but I don't really know how, what would you say are the first initial steps for that practitioner to engage their community in ways in which would be most effective for them?

Rasheedah: As a parent and a parent leader, honestly, those are the only spaces I really know. So the traditional parent association or parent board, or just the spaces where there are parents. And there may be few parents there, but that's where I would start to attend and connect and figure out who's who. And start the discussion with them. And then seeing how we can do outreach. And then trying really, honestly, like I said, I'm going to speak as a parent and a parent leader, Chris, from that lens, because that's one of the struggles we have as well with all of this work is a lot of these programs and initiatives and resources are really targeted towards the school administration and the school staff and workers.

And none of them really support the parents and the community members. And so for me, I feel like, we just need to continue to build our parent leadership community and just unite them in ways to understand what's happening in their schools, what's not happening in their schools, what we want and need to happen in the schools. And when I say, what we want and need, first step is for us to figure that out. We can't come to the table telling everybody what they need to do. We need to get to know our school community. So it really does just start with meetings or town halls, if folks just don't know how to get that started. You might be able to just start it on your own. Just try to plan and schedule some sort of space where folks can join and you get to know who they are, and y'all start talking that way.

Chris: A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Thank you for that. 

Rasheedah: That might not have been the best. 

 Chris: That's a real answer. It's not about the best, it's the real answer. 

 Rasheedah: It is, it's the real, yeah. Just get the community discussion going. The community discussion and the community listening sessions whatever that looks like. However you can try to engage, that's first and foremost, let folks know who you are. I had in my notes to make sure I say that, like when we were talking about healing, is what healing means to me is trust. Trust on so many different levels. So if I can trust you, trust the process, trust your intent, I could start to feel safe and I could feel just respected and protected and included. Like, that's what it's all about. So whoever you are trying to, work with your community, you got to build trust. And so you got to get out there and you got to get to know them, and they got to get to know you. And that's first. Everything else will flow

Chris: A hundred percent. No, I definitely resonate and appreciate that in so many levels. And as we kind of close out Rasheedah as a parent yourself, as a guardian, as a parent leader, out of curiosity, how do you balance your own time? Because one of the first things we'll always hear, because there's so much that we have to do in this world as a leader and as a community member, how have you learned using healing centered engagement and other tools that you've had to where every day I can carve out enough time for this and enough time for this and enough time for this. What are some of the challenges that come with it? And what are some of the strategies that you've tried that have worked for you? And only you. You can only speak for your own experience. We know that in our work. But how have you been able to balance that as well?

Rasheedah: It's a struggle. In Dr. Jim Rice's book he talks about from lens to mirror. That's the biggest struggle for me. I love helping others. I love suggesting different ways for folks to help themselves, and I love to support everyone else. But when it comes to myself personally, it's a struggle. I don't want to think about it. I don't want to do the work for myself because honestly one of the reasons why, for me personally, though this workload has moved as slow as it has been moving, which is not a bad thing. Everything happens the way it's supposed to happen. But there's so much more that could have been done. So many more meetings that could have happened hasn't happened. Because I am struggling with so much because I am trying to still figure out ways to support myself on a personal level.

And journaling has always worked for me. But sometimes I'll start writing Chris and I'll get lost in it, which is a good thing. But it brings out so much that I'm like, I'm not ready for that right now. Like, I can't do with that right now. But I'm slowly starting to understand the importance of just continuing to face and process and reflect. There's so much I have. I got my therapist and we were meeting once a week. At one point we were meeting twice a week. And I value it. I value it, but I do also understand the importance of self-reflection. I also understand the importance of opening up a bit to your loved ones, which I'm not good at either.

I have so many folks in my life, I love them. They love me, but they just don't know the half that I go through, you know what I mean? They just don't because I just don't tell them. But understanding, learn how to open up a little more, how to share, be vulnerable and just sit with it. Sit with it. And then the whole self-care thing, which I tell all my parents and my community members and myself, it doesn't have to be this extravagant, expensive spa day, self-care massage and all of that. It's all about just being in a moment. It's all about just slowing down. Really just putting the phone down and disconnecting whatever that means for you, putting your feet up, taking that bath or just putting on a funny movie or something.

Just a laughing, just finding the joy for yourself and to really just relax. And that's what I'm learning how to do more than anything. I'm a New Yorker, so we're always on the move. We're always on the go. We're always hustling. And so for me, if I'm not going and moving and doing something's not right, or I'm not productive. I'm lazy or I'm wasting time. And I'm learning that more and more, that nah, you could just chill. You could actually chill and just relax and just be in the moment, spend time with yourself, spend time with your family, your loved ones, whomever, or just be in the moment. And the more and more I get it, and the more I accept it and not feel guilty about it, the better I feel. So I'm learning that. I'm learning that.

Chris: And it's a process.

Rasheedah: It's a process. It's a journey. Yes, exactly. See, jinx, and that's what we say all the time too, it's a journey. And I lift up this quote from time to time that Dr. Jim Wright and Sean emphasizes from time to time, but it resonates so much with me, Rasheedah. And I think it speaks to what you're saying. He's always said that healing is the most radical act in social justice. And at first, folks was like the most radical, like healing. And he's like, yeah, because it confirms our right to be well. And that's a really important part to emphasize. Is it confirms our right. We have a right to be well. And oftentimes, healing centered engagement is that restoration of that journey. And all the tools that come with it. 

So as we close out, Rasheedah, and this has been a beautiful conversation that I can have with you for hours, on hours on hours, just learning about all the things that you and your community have and continue to do in New York, in the Bronx, and the reverberating effects that it will have across the country, really, in a lot of ways. Here on the west coast, we know what we know about New York City. We know what we know about the five boroughs. But I think what can't be understated is that given how big New York is, given all the beautiful cultures and people in New York, and honestly the bureaucracy that comes with New York and all that comes with it, if something works in New York City, it can work anywhere. 

And what you all have done with the parent leaders and the caregivers over the years have been so inspiring to all of us. So I will say in five years, Rasheedah, as we sign off, what will a Bronx look like as it engages more and more in healing center school and healing center work? What will the Bronx look like in 5, 10 years?

Rasheedah: More joy. Our babies will enjoy going to school, love their school and respect the adults in their schools, which will just result in a better community overall. More connection with each other and community. And our children just flourishing from having a safe space in the schools and not being punished or embarrassed or traumatized by these harmful structures in our schools and the policies. We're going to see more joy. We're going to see more joy and our babies just doing beautiful things and really, really flourishing. And as a result, the parents and caregivers and community members, it's going to be a community, we'll feel the difference. We really, really will, because we're going to have these supportive services in ways that we know we need them in our communities. So just more joy.

Chris: Joy and love for real. Joy and love. I feel that. I feel that. Well, Rasheedah, again, you are a busy person, so I thank you for the time that you've been able to spend with us today. Deep appreciation to you and peace and love to your family, the Bronx community, and all of the caregivers, administrators, folks at the DOE who've committed to really doing this work for community, for the young people. For the people. So thank you so much for your time. Happy holidays to your family, all of those beautiful things. And we look forward to making a trip out to the Bronx sometime in 2023 to just say hello, and then just see firsthand what we can do. Because we would love to visit New York and we'll make let it happen. So thank you so much Rasheedah, I appreciate you.

Rasheedah: Yes. Happy holidays. Happy Kwanza. Peace and blessings to everyone. I appreciate y'all so much.

Chris: One love and speaking Kwanza, today's day two [47:33 inaudible]. And the beautiful thing about Kwanza, I love that you bring it up because it's so connected from coast to coast. You're honoring it and practicing it yourself, but also folks all over New York, and knowing that a lot of it manifested right here in West Oakland and South Berkeley as well so that's a beautiful thing, our community can stay connected. So Rasheedah one love to you, appreciate it.

Rasheedah: Peace.