Healing Happens Everywhere: Spotlighting Amazing Artist Barbara Fant

In this captivating episode, we are privileged to sit down with the incredibly talented Barbara Fant, who generously shares her intimate personal journey - from her humble roots growing up in the small town of Youngstown, Ohio, to navigating the bright lights and bustling energy of the entertainment capital of Los Angeles. Barbara's story is one of resilience, passion, and a deep-rooted connection to the transformative power of art and self-expression. As she openly discusses, her path has not been without its challenges, but through it all, Barbara has emerged as a multifaceted artist whose work is imbued with authenticity, vulnerability, and a steadfast commitment to using her platform to inspire healing and growth, particularly among youth. With a disarming humility that belies her immense talent, Barbara shares invaluable insights on the importance of tapping into one's creative spirit as a means of cultivating personal wholeness. This is an episode you simply cannot afford to miss, as Barbara Fant's story is one that is sure to leave an indelible mark, reminding us all of the profound impact that can be achieved when we have the courage to share our most authentic selves with the world. 

Transcript

Chris: Peace y’all. Welcome to the CARMA Chronicles podcast, where we speak to the nation's leading healing centered practitioners. I'm your host, Chris Nguon. And today we are continuing our Arts-Based Healing centered engagement miniseries with an amazing guest. Y'all can y'all don't want to miss this. Miss Barbara Fant who is super talented in so many different ways, but also has a beautiful healing journey of artistry that spans so many different modalities. And she just do completely amazing adult work um not only with adults, but with youth as well, that we'll get into. So, I can't wait for this conversation y'all.

Barbara: Hey, I'm doing great. I'm doing great. Thank you so much for having me. This is amazing. What an introduction. Oh, my goodness.

Chris: Well, you know what, you deserve every bit of it. And I so look forward to holding space for you to be able to share your story, your artistry, your creativeness, your healing with the audience here. Because at the CARMA Chronicles podcast, people are listening because they're interested in healing work. They're interested in healing centered engagement. They're interested in trauma informed care that helps to transform spaces for ourselves, for young people, for our communities. And I know all of those things are so valuable to you, as well. So thanks so much for being here. I love and appreciate your time tonight, for sure.

Barbara: Thank you. Thank you, what an honor. What an honor to be here. And I just appreciate you and all the work that you'd do this beautiful in the world, and just the way you hold space for so many voices. So thank you.

Chris: Thank you. No, no doubt, no doubt. Thank you, Barbara. So yo Barbara is so amazing, yo, I don’t even know where to start. But I will say let's start where we're hoping mic. I think that's where we'll start, right there. So Barbara, you found your artistry in a lot of ways through an open mic that you found. Let's kick off there. Tell us a little bit about that, and how that really kicked off your journey to where you are at now.

Barbara: Yeah, I did. So I did find an open mic, I think I have to probably backtrack just a little bit if…

Chris: Yes, yes.

Barbara: that's okay.

Chris: Mhm.

Barbara: Um, so I'm from a small town in Ohio, that that is um a lot. It's, it's uh it can be a beautiful place, but it can also be um riddled with violence. And, um, uh you know, just trauma, right? Just lots of trauma, this layer of trauma. So I grew up in that. Um and at the same time, you know, I grew up in the church, I was raised in the church and had this kind of um beautiful, like, sheltered experience in the church. But then at the same time, I was at a Catholic school. So I had all these things going on, right? And um my mother passed when I was 15. And so that kind of um, really, I feel like was such a, a, a huge moment in my life, as a young person to kind of go through that. And I was angry, I'm not gonna lie, I was just angry, I couldn't really talk to anybody. I couldn't um really process what I was going through. And I told my dad, I said; ‘You know, I think I need to go to counseling’. And he was like; ‘No, you're going to church’, you know? And that was his way of kind of processing things, especially like in the Black church, we hear that a lot. And um so I started writing. And honestly, I started writing as like a form of prayer. And that became my release and my outlet. And I always tell people, I went from like punching walls to picking up a pen, because that was really, you know, literally my journey. And I would go to church, and I wouldn't necessarily understand what the pastor was saying, but I would take notes, and then I would go back home, and I would write those into a poem. And that began my way of like processing. And then later on, I discovered HBO Def Poetry. Now, I might be aging myself…

Chris: Oh yeah.

Barbara: because I don't know if some people know what HBO Def Poetry is. But…

Chris: Yes, yes.

Barbara: yeah, Russell Simmons used to run a show called HBO Def Poetry. And he used to bring poets from all over and I used to follow it. And um I ended up seeing this poet on there. Her name was Sonny Patterson; poet out in New Orleans, and she did this poem call, ‘We Made It’. And I was like, Oh, my goodness. I don't know. I don't know what the heck that is, but I want to do that for the rest of my life.

Chris: Right.

Barbara: And so um I ended up finding an open mic when I went to Columbus, Ohio when I went to college. And um I ended up you know, just kind of going and visiting and listening to what was going on. I ended up meeting who at the at the time, he can he I didn't know he was going to be this, but he became my mentor. He was like a, a big pioneer in the poetry community in Columbus, Ohio. He invited me to an open mic. Um the next day, he said; ‘Hey, whenever you go to a open mic, make sure you always bring something with you just in case’.

Chris: Mmm.

Barbara: And so I ended up going to the open mic he invited me to the next day. And I got on the mic, read my poem, and I haven't left the stage since.

Chris: Haven’t the stage yet. Wow. So much, so much uh to unpack there so much beautifulness. And thank you so much for sharing that, right.

Barbara: Yeah.

Chris: Um you know, life is something.

Barbara: It is.

Chris: Life is interesting, isn't it? Um yeah, it's a real trip. So when your mentor said; ‘Always bring something with you’, what exactly did he meant?

Barbara: He oh, he meant always bring your work with you; always bring your words with you. So one of the things he asked me, I ended up randomly sitting next to this guy, right? Like I was at the open mic, somebody else was in the seat next to him. And they were like; ‘No, no, no, take my seat, take my seat’. It was one of those things. And um he's an older guy. Um and I, he didn't really look at me or anything like that. We didn't really make eye contact.

Chris: Right.

Barbara: And they introduced like, you know, the godfather of poetry in the city of Columbus coming to the stage. And then the man next to me gets up and walks on the stage.

Chris: How about that?

Barbara: Does this amazing poem um called The Bomb. Basically, everybody will be equal after the bomb. And he the crowd goes crazy, you know? Then he comes and sits back down, like nothing ever happened. You know? And I was like; ‘Um, excuse me, sir. Like, what…’?

Chris: Yeah.

Barbara: You know? So, I introduce myself to him. He said; ‘Oh, you're a poet, do you write’? And I was like; ‘I write’. He was like; ‘You ever perform’? I was like; ‘I never performed’. And he said; ‘You know, whenever you go to a open mic, you should bring something just in case. Bring your words just in case, bring your work just in case’. And um he invited me to a open mic the next day. And that's when I did my first open mic, but…

Chris: And the rest is history.

Barbara: The rest is history. His rest is history. His name is Usid. Um and he passed last year. Um but he uh he lived a beautiful life. He was in his 80s. But he um was my mentor for many, many years. And I wouldn't be doing even a fraction of the things that I'm doing as an artist, or really, as a person in a world as a healer had it not been for his presence in my life.

Chris: Wow. Thank you so much for sharing and shout out to Usid, rest in power…

Barbara: Yes.

Chris: to a new ancestor…

Barbara: Yes, yes, yes.

Chris: in the space.

Barbara: Yes.

Chris: You know what I’m saying? Absolutely. You know, Barbara, you said, you haven't left the stage since. For artists who are listening, who are also on their own healing journey, or do healing work with community, I always ask artists who hold space this question; How do you and what do you recommend, suggest, what is your advice that people also want to look for a open mic or anything ‘get up on stage’, but maybe has some stage fright? What was your process? What is it about being on stage that allows you to feel like you? And how can other people navigate that to also find their own voice their own space ‘on stage’ as well?

Barbara: Yeah, that's a that's a great question. Um, I think a few things, right? I think that for me, um and this is probably not the case for everybody. But I, I do think that writing is one part of the release in the process.

Chris: Mhm.

Barbara: Um the other gift is having people listen to it, and being able to release that in a different way and releasing it on stage. And for me um, I, I ended up kind of gaining my healing or working through my walking through my healing journey by accessing the writing portion of it, but then also getting on stage and releasing that out of my body is a different experience. And I used to tell young people that I um worked with who are incarcerated, that, you know, one part of it is the writing part, but the other part is releasing it out into the world. And when you're releasing it out of your body, there's something somatic that happens, where you don't necessarily have to physically carry it around with you anymore. You start that process is it's a it's a healing process to release something out of your body.

Chris: Right.

Barbara: And um so I always tell people that I for me, that that's always been a big portion of, of my my walk in my healing journey is to release on stage. And I always say that if you're somebody who is trying to find a space to, to release or to do that on stage one, just Google, figure out what’s…

Chris: Right.

Barbara: going on in your area, figure out the poets that are in your area, try to connect with them. Instagram has made it um incredibly easy to, to access poetry and not just, you know, states within the US, but across the globe, really, you know, in other countries. You can go to Paris and just type in and say, like, ‘I want to find an open mic in Paris tonight’, you know what I mean and find one. And um I know people who've done it, right? And who've, like, found somebody online, click their bio, you know, DM them, and then ended up performing at the open mic or being a feature, you know what I mean, from the US the night, you know, the next night. So, I do think that it's, it's way more accessible to us now than it than it ever has been before. And I do think that COVID also shifted things. Some folks will say, COVID shifted things in more of a negative way.

Chris: Right.

Barbara: And some folks say that, I mean, I, I do think that there's beauty in all things, right?

Chris: Right.

Barbara: And there can be beauty in things. And that it's also been a gift to us that um the stage has opened up in a virtual way, in a new way. And we learned that. We learned that a lot in COVID. So I do think there's so virtual open mics that um happened. I just hosted a…

Chris: Oh, is that right?

Barbara: Yeah, there's still virtual open mics that happen. I just hosted a conference for my uh press that I um were, I was leading like a keynote. We did a reading, folks from all over. We have folks…

Chris: Wow.

Barbara: from all over multiple states. Somebody came in from Vietnam…

Chris: Wow.

Barbara: You know what I mean?

Chris: What?

Barbara: Just tap in to listen in. So it's possible. It's all possible.

Chris: That's amazing. That's amazing. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, we um we get that question time, and time. But for Flourish Agenda…

Barbara: Mhm.

Chris: it's really about our trainers, right? Being able to hold space for adult providers or…

Barbara: Yes.

Chris: any other space that we're holding. Sometimes we hold space for 150, 175 people before, right? Just…

Barbara: Yeah.

Chris: doing centered engagement, right? So thank you for sharing that. I imagine that's super helpful for folks, for sure, for sure, that are looking to get started in some way, you know? Absolutely.

Barbara: Yeah, I sure hope so. I sure hope so. You know, I um I think that, you know, of course, my journey is different now. Like, when I was in…

Chris: Yeah.

Barbara: college, I was able to hit three or four open mics a week, you know what I'm saying? I can't do that now, but I was doing it. You know what I mean, I was doing it.

Chris: Yeah.

Barbara: And then I started competing, I started slamming.

Chris: Yeah.

Barbara: And um so that took me on a different journey as well. But um I do say for anybody who's out there who's interested and wants to get involved, just do it.

Chris: Yeah.

Barbara: Just do it. And the only way to get rid of stage fright is to just do it.

Chris: Just do it.

Barbara: Just to just to just do it. And then also something a mentor, another mentor told me Dr. Kelly, um told me that; ‘People want to hear what you have to say’. So if you're on stage, let yourself know, tell yourself; ‘People want to hear what I have to say’. And it helps, it helps you. It helps you as you are delivering.

Chris: Absolutely. I feel that 100% for sure. For sure. For sure. Now, Barbara, you ended up in Los Angeles County, from Ohio.

Barbara: I did. Yeah.

Chris: Yeah. Talk me through a little bit of that thought process. Ultimately, what made it feel right, to pick up your bags and come out here to the West Coast?

Barbara: Oh, that's a good, that's a good question. I don't typically get the chance to talk about it as much, you know? Um, well, I what I will say is that um this would have been 2017. About 2017…

Chris: Mhm.

Barbara: I felt the calling to do a MFA, a Masters of Fine Arts in Poetry. And I knew I wanted to do that. And um I, you know, have lots of friends on the East Coast. I grew up in the Midwest, but spent a lot of time you know, Michigan, New York, like that whole area. I have a lot of people in that area. And I knew I wanted to do a little something different. And there's a poet uh; Khadija Queen, who went to a school um out in Los Angeles called Antioch University and follow Khadija’s work. And um another poet; Gina Loring, followed her work and reached out and they were like; ‘You should you should apply’, you know? So I applied, got in, I had no idea how that was gonna happen. But it was super divine, the way um that everything just really worked out. But I ended up getting into school and my job at the time I was working for a community foundation um at the time. For they allowed me to both go to school and work. So, it was a low residency program. So I will go away of 2, 2 times a year and um for about 10 days each time and then come back and still work full time. And um they were able to work that out for me; it was such a blessing. At the same time, there was a board member of an organization called the Arts for Healing and Justice Network, um who happened to be stationed in my office in Columbus. So we were connecting, and he was just like; ‘Wait a minute, you're out in LA? You're going back and forth to Atlanta’? I was like; ‘Yeah, I'm doing my degree out there’. And he was aware of the work I was doing in Ohio around youth incarceration.

Chris: Right.

Barbara: And um so he said; ‘I wonder if Ohio has capacity to kind of build out a network, the way that the Arts for Healing and Justice Network in LA exist’. And so we had conversation after conversation. Graduated in 2019, was still in Ohio, I had left that job became an artistic director for an organization called Harmony Project. And this is like, you know, during this is the early tip of 2020. So this is right in smack dab in the middle of COVID, right? And one of the organizations reach reaches out and says; ‘Hey, would you be interested in doing some contract work with us, and leading kind of this network of arts organizations that work with young people who are incarcerated in Ohio’?

Chris: Mhm.

Barbara: So they contracted with me, ran on the ground work virtually, in Ohio, and then they asked me to come on board full time and run it in other states. And they said um; ‘If you do that, we would love for you to move’.

Chris: Wow.

Barbara: And so that's how that ended up happening, um is I ended up moving to Los Angeles to work for the Arts for Healing and Justice Network as the um Director of Replication and Training. And uh I ended up building out networks that work um networks of arts organizations that work with young people who are system impacted using art as a tool for healing in other states. And so we went from San Diego to New Mexico, to Ohio to uh New York, and then ultimately New Orleans.

Chris: Wow.

Barbara: Since that time, I've been in LA, I've worked in multiple different spaces.

Chris: Mhm.

Barbara: Um but that's, that's what landed me here.

Chris: Thank you so much for sharing that.

Barbara: Yeah.

Chris: Yeah.

Barbara: For sure.

Chris: You know, well we connected with Barbara, obviously here in Los Angeles County. And as folks who have listened to our previous two episodes know, our partnership with the Los Angeles Department of Arts and Culture, and the counties and their collective, put together a beautiful, dope, amazing group of artists, creatives, activist from Los Angeles County, to work on this question of what is Art space HCE? What is Art space healing centered engagement? What is arts? What is the relationship between artists and healing, right? And, Barbara, I think one of the many amazing things about you is your worldview, right? And we could sit here for hours just talking about that. And I do want to stay on that for a little bit.

Barbara: Mhm.

Chris: Because a lot of this work is ultimately centered on youth, right? Flourish Agenda’s work over the last 30 years with Camp Akili is about the restoration of youth and adults who serve them. So can you share a little bit more about your work with systems impacted young people? And really how art and as creative director in a lot of different these spaces, right, you came to LA to run these models in different states in different cities, how have you seen art really support young people's restoration, specifically young people who are obviously system impacted in whatever ways in which they come to you?

Barbara: Yeah, no, that's a beautiful question. I think uh you know, I think the core of what keeps me grounded in this work is really knowing what art did for me as a person and their art, knowing that art transforms and it truly does have the power to heal, when you cone reconnect back to um who you truly are, and you can strip away all the, the trauma and all the violence and all the um the, the rejection and the abandonment and you can tap deeply into who you truly are, and remember who you are. Um and sometimes you don't know who you are, right? So you get to learn who you are, and learn your voice through art, um that's a really, really special thing. And um not everybody is going to be a artist in their life. Like I know that they're not everybody is going to say; ‘Hey, I want to write books for the rest of my life and get paid to do it’, right? Um however, there is a healing element to art. And I think that's something that everybody can access. And I learned that uh years many, many years ago. I started working in youth incarceration when I was like 19 years old.

Chris: Mhm.

Barbara: Got a job as a artist assistant, inside a youth um correctional institution working with young women. And um watch them transform and, and also get to be a kid again.

Chris: Wow, yep, yep, yep, exactly.

Barbara: Yeah. They, they got to be reminded that there's a there's a little there's a little person in there, right?

Chris: Right.

Barbara: Who didn't who never got the chance to fully be that young person. And um art can access that I believe in a way that not everything else can.

Chris: Mhm.

Barbara: And um even if it was only for an hour, they got to strip away everything else that was clouding them to just be in that.

Chris: Mhm.

Barbara: And it was beautiful. It really, really was. And I mean, so many beautiful things came out of that. There's a young woman, I won't say her name, but um at the time when she was incarcerated, and we were uh doing programming there, she actually, not only did she discover that she was a great artist, but like everybody else around her discovered that she was a great artist too.

Chris: Yeah.

Barbara: And they actually allow her she was drawing on everything. So they allowed her to go into one of the units and actually paint these l these like, wall size like Bugs Bunny, Pink Panther…

Chris: What?

Barbara: characters. Yeah.

Chris: Bet it was amazing too.

Barbara: It was amazing. It was amazing, you know? But she didn't even know that was inside of her. But it took artists going into a space saying; ‘Hey, try this’. And then saying like; ‘Oh, yeah, I could rock that; I could do that’.

Chris: Yeah.

Barbara: You know? And it and it changed so many things for her so. Um and for, for the space, right? It brought…

Chris: Yeah.

Barbara: light and life to the space. So um I've been working in youth incarceration for a long time. Also working with adults. Uh I actually went to seminary to become a prison chaplain…

Chris: Mhm.

Barbara: and did all my field study at a youth facility as well. Uh for many years, I worked for um a shelter for teenage runaways. And have done a lot of work and work. Being in LA, I started, I took a step back work and was working with practitioners working with teaching artists who did this work and running contracts and that kind of thing. And then, um actually, really, within the last year, is when I came back to working more directly with young people.

Chris: Mhm.

Barbara: And now I'm Program Director at an organization called Homeboy Art Academy of Homeboy Industries where I work with young, young people who are actively getting involved.

Chris: Mhm, mhm. Yeah, no, that's real Barbara, and the work is real. And so many people who aspire to do youth development work or who are, who are listening, I think in a lot of ways can resonate with that. And one of the things that come to mind to me, Barbara, because a lot of Flourish Agenda’s work and Camp Akili centered on youth who are systems impacted as well, right? Dr. Jim Wright always tells the story is ‘they stuck him in a basement of the youth that they didn't know what to do with…

Barbara: Yeah.

Chris: back in the late 80s’, right. So I think there's so much power in how you describe artistry and healing, as it relates to transforming space. So I wonder, I mean, you've been working professionally, with systems impacted youth and in the systems in juvenile hall um for so many years. What's the biggest misconception that you think society has about youth specifically who are systems impacted either inside; in the space inside or just outside when folks are interacting with youth who are systems impacted? What do you think is the biggest misconception that, you know, society just can pivot on into perspective?

Barbara: Yeah, no, that's a great question. I think for me, it's, um, that they can't be reached.

Chris: Mhm.

Barbara: And that they are not listening, and that they will do what they have always done. And that's not true…

Chris: Right.

Barbara: at all, you know? And um I, I think that it's easy to, to give up on folks. It's easy to, to, to give up on people. And if, if there's one thing that I'm learning, especially in these last couple of years of my life, is what the true meaning of like, radical love really is. And being completely consistent, and committed. And in the work, um they're gonna challenge you. They're gonna tell you all kinds of things, all kinds of four letter words are gonna fly out.

Chris: Mhm.

Barbara: You know? And they're going to push you away, because that's what they know.

Chris: Mhm.

Barbara: They know rejection, abandonment, and they know love that way.

Chris: Mhm.

Barbara: So you have to teach them a new language of love.

Chris: Mhm.

Barbara: And some people, some people stop at, at that, that, that breaking point, they stop too soon.

Chris: Mhm.

Barbara: And they don't they don't stay in the mud. And in order to really have your breakthroughs, you got to you got to stay in the mud.

Chris: Mhm.

Barbara: You got to be committed to it. And um you got to you have to know that it's possible.

Chris: Mhm.

Barbara: And um because sometimes they don't even know what's possible.

Chris: Right, right. I believe that.

Barbara: And um so, so yeah, so those are the things that I’ve, I've learned, you know, over the years and I'm and I’m learning, but I think that…

Chris: Yeah.

Barbara: Yeah, people think that there's no hope, and there's always hope.

Chris: There's always hope; for sure. Because I want to stay on, like, and what resonated with me is how you said, not only did it transform, potentially, the young lady’s path…

Barbara: Yeah.

Chris: the young lady that was drawing beautiful murals of Pink Panther and all of these things high up on the walls, but transformed the space as well.

Barbara: Mhm.

Chris: And a lot of folks were listening and be like; ‘Nah, that's impossible. It's jail. You can't transform a space in jail’. But uh for folks like yourself, the beautiful teams that you work with, the teaching artists that you support, that are working with systems impacted youth, it’s possible, yo. And Barbara is a living example of what it is um to manifest, to actualize, to integrate, to implement a lot of these spaces in in in in beautiful ways, right? So yeah, thank you so much for, for sharing, sharing that piece, you know? Radical love…

Barbara: Yeah.

Chris: I love that. I love that. How do you pour into yourself, to sustain yourself in radical love? Because it's a lot. What you explain, it can be a lot. So what do you do to pour into your own cup, so that you can stay in the mud?

Barbara: That is a really good question. I think I have failed many, many times.

Chris: Right.

Barbara: It's a journey, right? It's a journey. Yes.

Chris: Yeah.

Barbara: Self-care is a journey. Um I think for me right now uh is remaining creative.

Chris: Mhm.

Barbara: Like making sure that I'm consistent in my writing, making sure that I'm doing something consistent for myself as a professional artist in this space, um also, having fun…

Chris: Mhm.

Barbara: rem, rem, remembering to get out, go to the movies, go skating, go to the beach, if I need to, see my friends, see my family…

Chris: Ooh, the LA lif4.

Barbara: Yeah that’s LA life I guess. That's true; go to a beach if you can, right?

Chris: Uh huh.

Barbara: Um but uh also my faith. My faith is…

Chris: Yeah, absolutely.

Barbara: incredibly core to who I am as well. Um so making sure that I'm pouring into myself that way. And um and being intellectually stimulated, doing that, you know, making sure that I'm doing that and having mentors in my life, yo, like…

Chris: Yeah.

Barbara: and you know what else people don't talk about this, but therapy.

Chris: Absolutely.

Barbara: I stay in therapy.

Chris: Uh huh.

Barbara: I also have a trainer that I work out with regularly. Um I try to eat things properly, you know what I mean? And drink my water and, and get my sleep because I am a better person and I can show up for other people better and in stronger ways if I'm showing up for myself.

Chris: Yeah.

Barbara: And I didn't always know to do that. Um I didn't always know to show up for myself. But I'm learning how to show up for myself so that I can show up for other people better and um turn, turn it off. When it's time to turn it off, turn it off. Like after five, six o'clock, and I'm not working with young people, it is hard. You can't always just turn it off because their lives don't turn off. Their trauma doesn't turn off like…

Chris: That’s right.

Barbara: and it’s, it’s hard, right? And you're not going to be able to do it all the time. But work to do it. Find times for yourself where you just block out and you're not answering your, you're not answering your phone; you're not doing that, you know? They will call someone else. They're gonna be okay, you know? And knowing when to turn it back on.

Chris: That’s [inaudible 28:40].

Barbara: It's hard. I mean, it's not always easy.

Chris: It is.

Barbara: And it's a it's a boundaries, right?

Chris: Yeah.

Barbara: You know? But in order to have true love, I believe you have to have boundaries there. Otherwise, it's easy to move into abuse.

Chris: Wow.

Barbara: Um you'll feel tugged one way, they'll feel tugged one way, folks will be stepping over lines. Well, you never had any lines.

Chris: Wow.

Barbara: And now you’re being stepped on, and you like; ‘Wait, what happened? Well, who am I’?

Chris: Wow.

Barbara: How did I get here?

Chris: That's powerful yo.

Barbara: So, you know. It’s, it's not always a easy journey. But it is a process, it’s a process.

Chris: It’s a process. Yeah, yeah. Healing is a process. The journey is a process yo.

Barbara: Yeah.

Chris: That was powerful. Wow. I hope that message takes heat yo. I would even bear to take out clip that piece when people ask about burnout in the future if you don't mind Barbara because…

Barbara: Oh yeah, no, for sure.

Chris: that is that is truly powerful. And I love the way you broke that down for sure, right?

Barbara: Yeah.

Chris: Mhm.

Barbara: And you know, the other part of it too, is I think sometimes when we get in this work, especially when we do this work with young people and we're in the trenches, we think we have to do and be everything. But we cannot do and be everything. You actually were not built to do and be everything.

Chris: Yeah.

Barbara: You're built to lead from where you're supposed to lead from, and to figure out what part that is, and to move in that. That's why you have a team. And so one thing that I had to always remind myself to, is that some of us, some of us plant, some of us plant a seed, then some of us come along and water that seed, then some of us come along and do another part. You know what I'm saying? Like, it is a process. And collectively, that's the village that we talk about; collectively…

Chris: Alright.

Barbara: work, and we hold the young person, but you can't do it as a solo individual.

Chris: Yeah. That's real yo. In 2024, as we sit in now, in June 2024, what are young people telling you? What are they holding right now? Because it might not be the same. In 1994, when I was younger, right?

Barbara: Mhm.

Chris: What is it that’s similar, what is it that's different? What is it that young people are trying to convey now that you are noticing, that you are recognizing, that you are saying; ‘Hmm, this is interesting’?

Barbara: Mmm. That's good. I mean, there's a lot of different ways I could probably go.

Chris: Yeah.

Barbara: I think what my young people what I hear all the time now is inflation, right?

Chris: Yeah. The real; the real, real.

Barbara: Money, right, you know what I’m saying? Money, okay? You know, that's what I'm hearing now a whole lot of but um, you know, I think that um there is so much information flying at young people all the time, you know…

Chris: Yeah.

Barbara: that I think that that can be a lot and overwhelming. Um and as much information that's flying at them all the time and as much as um they can probably turn on a live, right on IG and go live and or a TikTok and create a video and instantly, it'd be to millions, millions of people, they still want to be heard. And that's what I am. They, they are missing, especially the young people that I work with right now, they are missing people that truly hear and listen to them.

Chris: Mhm.

Barbara: Um and uh that's what I'm, that's what I'm getting from them. They want to be heard like truly heard.

Chris: Mhm.

Barbara: And they want to be felt and understood. Um and so that's what I'm that's what I'm getting a lot of from my young people. And also, folks just so much stuff flying at them all the time. They like, ‘Yo, what's, what's up though for real’?

Chris: Yeah.

Barbara: What's the real, real? Like, you know, just be real with me.

Chris: Yeah.

Barbara: Just tell me what it is, you know? And I that might be true for young people in the 80s and the 90s, you know?

Chris: Yeah.

Barbara: 2000s, I don't know. But, but I do know that that's when you come with these young people, you gotta come correct.

Chris: Yeah.

Barbara: They gon snuff, you know, fluff out, you know?

Chris: Yeah, they know.

Barbara: They already know, they already know what's up. They want to check and make sure you know what's up too.

Chris: Yeah.

Barbara: So they like come, come with it, you know, be real with me.

Chris: Yeah, absolutely.

Barbara: Yeah.

Chris: Thank you for sharing that. Thank you for sharing that. That's real. You see yo, this what I'm talking about. Barbara is so multifaceted in her talent, but also her heart and her spirit yo. Um I hear so much. And what I appreciate about how you move, Barbara is just how your spirit really comes at the forefront of how you hold your values, and how you align yourself and your own personal boundaries to continue to guide yourself through this journey, you know? Um and I think what you have shared and will continue to share in various ways will really have a lot of impact on people, you know, in so many ways, right? Yo, Barbara has also won hefty amount of awards for various artistry, right? Um too long to share here. But as Barbara mentioned earlier, right, slam contests, right, that Barbara has won through acknowledgement of her poetry skill. Um Barbara has given a TED talk, you know, um all of these things, right? Um amongst many, many other things, right? So I think someone like Barbara is, is so well equipped to really continue to be a leading forefront and exploring Barbara what art and healing and relationship comes together in so many ways, right? So I really just appreciate you, and…

Barbara: Thank you.

Chris: and how you show, right? So, couple more minutes left before we head out yo. Um one of the ways in which we connected with Barbara too and I got to know Barbara more and our team at Flourish is through a foundational series document that Barbara as one of the creators of our cohort workspace with the county of arts and culture here in LA and arts a collective, Barbara was able to work on. So this particular case, Barbara was actually the one asking questions of other local artists. But usually Barbara being her amazing self, people are asking her questions, like myself right now. But Barbara, tell me a little bit more about that process, right? The foundational series Darkman was about a year ago.

Barbara: Yeah.

Chris: And you and three other local creatives were able to go out in community and just vibe with other artists. Tell me a little bit about that process. Tell me about what you learned kind of being on the interviewer side of things, um and what amazingness came from that?

Barbara: Yeah, thank you so much for that. Thank you so much for your kind words, and for the opportunity. This is really beautiful. That was such a beautiful experience for me, like, I'm not even going to, you know, hold you. Like when I was able to do that I wasn't sure exactly what I was going to do. And I had listened to what a lot of other folks were doing. And they were interviewing, like, lots of people. And, you know, they took a lot of time, and I and I was like; ‘You know what, I know folks that I really, really want to hone in on’. And I asked three folks who um I knew were like community leaders, but also cultural bearers…

Chris: Right.

Barbara: and true healers that were rooted in the work. One is Kruti, who uh worked for organization for many years, but she's, she's a true healer, and a like a healing practitioner, um a mentor to many, many, many young people that have spanned many years, you know? And has just done beautiful work. Amir Whitaker, Dr. Amir Whittaker, who um is the founder of Project Knucklehead, but who also is like this core community builder, and leader in Leimert Park. He does so many wonderful, amazing things. Um and then uh Julian Harris, who is director of um the youth um youth reentry portion of the Arts for Healing and just Justice Network, and um he has been a friend of mine, but I know him as someone who holds young people and hold space for young people, but also who is an artist. And um that process for me was just so beautiful, because I was able to dive deep into like who they are, and what made them who they are…

Chris: Right.

Barbara: and then how they saw healing in the world. And so many like, nuggets from those interviews I still pull on. But one of the beautiful things that did come out of that process is that Kruti actually developed a curriculum, based upon the interview that we did.

Chris: What? How did he even do that? What?

Barbara: I know.

Chris: That’s amazing.

Barbara: It's crazy because I think even in talking about like, we don't get the chance to talk enough about the work that we do, we're just in it. But in that space, they were able to reflect on a healing work that they did, and what got them to the journey that they were on and what keeps them and sustains them in the work. And I was reminded to stay rooted, I was reminded to stay rooted, to stay grounded to who I am as an individual to where I come from, and um to, to be truly authentically myself in the world. Um and to also always do my own work so that I can show up and do the work that I need to do.

Chris: Wow. Thank you so much for sharing that. Um that's amazing, right? Artists, learning from other artists, vibing with other artists. And that's great. I didn't even hear that, that a curriculum came from y’all’s conversation. That's amazing.

Barbara: Yeah.

Chris: That's absolutely amazing.

Barbara: Yeah.

Chris: Yeah. Thank you for sharing that.

Barbara: Yeah, for sure. For sure. Thanks for the opportunity. It was it was a beautiful time.

Chris: Of course. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Um, tell me a little bit more, and the listeners a little bit more about Miles of Garden. Because in case y'all didn't know yo, Barbara is an accomplished author as well, right? So I’m trying to tell you all, man, Barbara is the truth. But yeah, tell me a little bit more about Miles of Garden um specifically, because I love the artwork that comes with Miles of Garden. It is one of the most beautiful pieces of art work that represents so many things um that I've ever seen. Really, right. I could break that down and look at it for hours, right? So yeah, tell, tell, tell me and us a little bit more about Miles of Garden and some of your authorship as well.

Barbara: Yeah, thank you so much for the question. Miles of Garden um is a book that came out uh in 2022. Um and I worked on it for, for a while. But uh it's a collection of poetry. I always say it's like an ode in three parts. It's um a ode to the hood that I grew up in. It's an ode to the men in my life that I love that didn't necessarily know how to love me properly. And it's an ode to the women in my family. And um it is about, you know, generational trauma, but it's also about generational healing. It's about lineage. And um it is really special to me. I was able to play around and do a lot with that book. Um Sundress Publications reached out and they were able to publish that book. So it this is my third collection of poetry. My first one came out of Penmanship Books, when, oh my goodness, I was like, 19 years old when I counted 29, not 19 sorry, like 21 when that came out, I was 21 when that came, that book came out my senior year of college. And Penmanship Books; Mahogany Brown out in New York City published that, so shout out to her. And then um who always believed in me too; I need to shout and shout her out. Um thank you, Mahogany. And um my next collection was self-published, um and it was more of a compilation project, Aligning Water and Bearing Stars. And then Miles of Garden is, is my third collection. And um it's just really special to me. The artwork is done by a friend of mine, incredible artist and muralist in the city of Columbus, Ohio, her name is April Tsunami.

Chris: Mhm.

Barbara: And um we worked together…

Chris: What a name. Shout out to April, my goodness.

Barbara: Right? I know.

Chris: What?

Barbara: And that’s her real name. Right?

Chris: Yeah.

Barbara: Like yeah.

Chris: Yeah, yeah. She ain’t playing. Destined to be special.

Barbara: No games.

Chris: Yes.

Barbara: No games, okay? And um she's, she's, I mean, she's incredible. She's one of my favorite artists, period.

Chris: Yeah.

Barbara: And um we've worked together for many years, known each other in the community for many years. And when I reached out to her, I was like; ‘Hey, can you do this? Like, can you can you just do the cover for my book’? She was like; ‘What’? And she actually did seven paintings.

Chris: What?

Barbara: And I said; ‘Ma'am, I can only pay you for one, okay’?

Chris: Yeah.

Barbara: And uh my friends actually kind of just like, put it out to some, some of my friends, and they actually chose that one.

Chris: Wow.

Barbara: And they were like; ‘No, this one’. And um the special thing about that painting is that it is uh of all the paintings that she did, that girl looks that she's the youngest, she's youthful.

Chris: Mhm.

Barbara: And um there's, there's yellows in it, there's purples in it, it’s brighter colors, but she's also youthful. And April told me that she tried to capture my eyes in that painting. And so that's the one that we went with. And when we did the release of the book, um I asked her, like; ‘Hey, would you mind doing like a dual release’?

Chris: Mhm.

Barbara: So I released the book, and she released her paintings. So when we did that book release, um we had all her paintings display. And um I did some poems and then another friend of mine played some music and sang.

Chris: That’s some chills yo. That is amazing. That is amazing. I wish I was there.

Barbara: Oh…

Chris: There…

Barbara: thank you.

Chris: must have been a be it must have been a beautiful event. Was it back home in Ohio, was it in LA?

Barbara: It was beautiful. It was back home in Ohio. I wanted to do some in LA and I just wasn't able to get it all together in time. But my next book prayerfully, um I'll have a release in LA for sure.

Chris: That’s what’s up.

Barbara: Yeah.

Chris: That’s what’s up. Thank you for sharing Barbara. See here, I think I'm special having written two books. Barbara’s like pissh, I'm on my third. My fourth coming out.

Barbara: No man, you doing it; you doing it, you doing it.

Chris: Shout out to y'all and shout out to all the authors out there, man for sure. So that's Miles of Garden, y'all.

Barbara: Yeah.

Chris: The read is beautiful. But also the, the cover work, a-mazing. Shout out to, to April Tsunami. Truly, and when you mentioned that, you know, April tried to capture your eyes, I see that now.

Barbara: Oh, thank you.

Chris: I see that now in that in that artistry. I think that's beautiful. So…

Barbara: I appreciate that.

Chris: I love to hear about collaborations in this way because we're not meant to do this solo, right? We're not meant to do this alone.

Barbara: We can't, you know? There's no way that we can do all this work by ourselves.

Chris: Yeah. Yeah, yeah; for sure, for sure. I hear that. I hear that.

Barbara: Yeah.

Chris: So Barbara, thank you so much for your time. Uh before we officially sign off, I just want to pass the mic to you again, one more time, just for a little bit of a closing; anything that you would like to share, anything that you would like to give advice towards for folks who are on their own healing journey, any curiosities that you want to pose, um but the mic is yours. And my appreciation and gratitude to you, again, is immense for spending a couple of minutes with us today.

Barbara: Oh, thank you so much. This has been really beautiful. You know, I think if I can just say anything and leave folks with, with something, it's just to continue to, to do your own healing work.

Chris: Yeah.

Barbara: And to know that um to know that there is this light that exists inside you and um that the world needs it, you know, the world really needs it. And to keep doing your own work just to keep pushing, sustain it, um even when it feels hard, even when you want to give up, even when you want to turn away, um keep, keep pressing into it because you never know whose life um might be hinged upon you sharing your life. And I just know…

Chris: That’s right.

Barbara: what other people sharing their light did for me. And um so I just want to encourage people that it's possible, there's always hope, and um to keep pressing.

Chris: Keep pressing on. And Barbara, thank you so much for sharing your life and your story with us here on the CARMA Chronicles podcast. Thank you so much for what you do and what you continue to do for young people and community. And listeners of the part of this episode, I really hope y'all enjoyed it um because Barbara is amazing. And I hope you know and I know, you know, you got something out of it. So thank you so much for everybody for listening as well. Without further ado, this is another episode that the CARMA Chronicles podcast. And until next time, yo, peace and love; together, we flourish.