Mista Pierre's Fortified 45s Show
Mista Pierre's Fortified 45s Show - Season 3 Ep1 with Cyril Nri (Part 2)
Send us a text with your support, comments or feedback.
It's February 2024. As I stroll under the rare azure canopy of London, I'm here to share the enlightening continuation of my dialogue with Cyril Nri.
We dive into a reflective journey through New York's storied streets, muse on the timeless melodies of Stevie Wonder, and consider the art of becoming someone else through the lens of actors. Our conversation is a patchwork of cultural epochs and personal tales,
We bring to light the significance of representation in media, from the polished accents that perplexed the police in my neighbourhood to characters in TV police series that broke the mould. Challenging stereotypes on screen, portraying minority groups with dignity, and embracing the spectrum of human experience is an actor's courageous calling.
So, let's revel in the virtuosity of Oscar Peterson, the individuality of Grace Jones, and the activism of Gil Scott-Heron. Let's honour the diversity of our world and the power of authenticity while invoking the spirit of global citizenship. Cyril and I urge you to chase your dreams, live passionately, and never let the grace of life's symphony go unheard.
Cyril's Songs
Living For The City - Stevie Wonder
You Got Me - The Roots
Mumbles - Oscar Peterson
Johannesburg - Gil Scott-Heron
Hosts: Mista Pierre
Producer: Mista Pierre
Mista Pierre's Fortified 45s Website
Mista Pierre's Instagram
Send us a text with your support, comments or feedback.
It's February 2024. As I stroll under the rare azure canopy of London, I'm here to share the enlightening continuation of my dialogue with Cyril Nri.
We dive into a reflective journey through New York's storied streets, muse on the timeless melodies of Stevie Wonder, and consider the art of becoming someone else through the lens of actors. Our conversation is a patchwork of cultural epochs and personal tales,
We bring to light the significance of representation in media, from the polished accents that perplexed the police in my neighbourhood to characters in TV police series that broke the mould. Challenging stereotypes on screen, portraying minority groups with dignity, and embracing the spectrum of human experience is an actor's courageous calling.
So, let's revel in the virtuosity of Oscar Peterson, the individuality of Grace Jones, and the activism of Gil Scott-Heron. Let's honour the diversity of our world and the power of authenticity while invoking the spirit of global citizenship. Cyril and I urge you to chase your dreams, live passionately, and never let the grace of life's symphony go unheard.
Cyril's Songs
Living For The City - Stevie Wonder
You Got Me - The Roots
Mumbles - Oscar Peterson
Johannesburg - Gil Scott-Heron
Hosts: Mista Pierre
Producer: Mista Pierre
Mista Pierre's Fortified 45s Website
Mista Pierre's Instagram
45, 45, 45, 45, 45. 45, 45, 45, 45, 45. Hi everybody, welcome to Fortified45s. My name is Mr Pierre. How are you doing? Hope you're good. I am.
Speaker 1:I'm feeling fine and dandy. Not a lie, but I'm feeling fine and dandy. Well, actually, I'll tell you a lie. The skies are blue in London for a change and it makes me feel kind of vibrant and buoyant. I'm mischievous. I got my favorite jeans on my favorite sneaks.
Speaker 1:I bounced into the center of town today. Tell me why? Because I wanted to go and see 2001, a space, obviously. I've always wanted to see that on a big screen. So I'm gonna see that at the IMAX in Waterloo, that's in the South Bank of London. So that's where I am right now.
Speaker 1:Well, actually, to be honest, I'm drinking a large glass of Savignon Blanc Nice little stabilizer before the film Shh harsh. Don't judge, I tell you. If you want to judge, well, don't judge. Really, I had to get out of my onesie today. It was a bit of a scuffle. Ha, ha, ha. So all I can say is imagine being a self-peeling banana. Right, and it's a bit tight. You know what I mean. You just go get it off the shoulder, get it off the other shoulder and then get it off the hips and then do your thing. You know what People are looking at me strangely in here, you know. I mean I'm speaking quietly, but I think my movements are giving me away. Anyway, I digress. I haven't quite reached the Iron Max Theatre yet. I'm currently at the National Theatre, which is just a short hop, skipping, a jump away. It's also an appropriate place for me to reintroduce our guests, mr Cyril Enri what a splendid chap he is.
Speaker 2:Splendid chap.
Speaker 1:You know you meet those people that just got vibes, energy, good spirit. Well, he happens to be one of them, and I was lucky to have a long conversation with him, which is why the episode was split into two parts. In this one, we talk further about inspiration, new York, freedom when you can have it, what that feels like, how he discovers and works into personality traits when he's acting, and a few more surprises in there. So, without further ado, let me introduce you to part two of 4545's, my Conversation with Cyril Enri. Enjoy. Music.
Speaker 4:A boy's born in hard-dyed Mississippi, surrounded by four walls that ain't so pretty. His parents give him love and affection to keep him strong, moving in the right direction. Living just enough. Just enough for the city? Yeah, his father works some days for 14 hours and you can bet he barely makes a dollar. His mother goes to scrub the floors for many and you best believe she hardly gets a penny. Living just enough. Just enough for the city? Yeah, music. His sister's black, but she is shown the pretty. Her skirt is short but, lord, her legs are sturdy. To walk to school she's got to get up early. Her clothes are old, but never are they dirty. Living just enough. Just enough for the city. Her brother's smart. He's got more sense than many. His patience long, but soon he won't have any. To find a job is like a hasty needle, cause when it leaves they don't use colored people. Living just enough. Just enough for the city, yeah, music, yeah.
Speaker 2:MUSIC, music, yeah, oh, wow, listen Stevie Wonder. Stevie Wonder when you go yeah, ok, who can play every instrument? Done this thing, ok, there's Stevie, ok, who can sing every note on this thing, his voice.
Speaker 1:Just like Nina when they describe a word, a sentence. Just for that part, and just like that emotion and how he can be so descriptive in his voice. Given what you can't see, are you mad?
Speaker 2:Are you mad, or it's just brilliant? And you know when I went to New York first time, and well, since then, you know when I lived there for a short while, and you know, and um, yeah, I mean Stevie plays in my head you know about coming to that city, and you know, and it is overwhelming and you can't go wrong, you know.
Speaker 2:I remember walking, you know, way back in oh God, it must have been 1980s, some, yeah, yeah, early 80s, and you know and going from block to block and at that point it wasn't, it wasn't cleaned up like it is now, you know, and I lived there for 87, so I don't know Blocks would change you know, around Port Authority, you know, of course, you know.
Speaker 2:and suddenly you got OK, braziers and Tramps and whatever, just for one block, and you're going I'm not safe here, I'm not safe here, you know. And then you know, next block it's like OK, italian mafia.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:Woo, I don't know where.
Speaker 1:I think being a chameleon is really important for safety as well. You have to be aware you can't be entitled or privileged. I think you can go anywhere and think you'll be OK. It doesn't work like that.
Speaker 2:No, not at all, Not for us anyway. No, no, and you? Know, and what a time you know, you say 87, you know that was a period to be there because you know HIV AIDS is coming out.
Speaker 1:HIV AIDS is coming out. I was 17, but hip-hop was there, flourishing, you know. I met the other side of my family, a guy in the East South American. So I found that other part of me, musically expression, and I'm more genetically outside on that side. So I thought, oh, I'm loud, just like them, you know, and expressive, and I could see a mirror of myself. I wasn't just what's the word? A freak that didn't fit into certain men's family. I thought, oh, that's where I get it from. Oh, ok, and mannerisms, laughing, clapping and, you know, enjoying food, lots of it, and just celebrating, oh, wow, you know, I mean.
Speaker 2:I remember being there and we'd taken a production there of.
Speaker 2:We'd taken a production of the Scottish play Matt McBeth with the National Theatre and we were on tour and we'd been around some of the lower states, the southern states and the Midwest and you know, there was a huge freedom for me when I came into New York by this time I'm hardly talking to any of our company because they are, you know, I realized that some of the attitudes towards, particularly in the South, you know, were more akin to some of those southern people. And so I get into New York and you know I've got a couple of friends there and whatever else.
Speaker 2:and you know I'm just turning up for the production, not for socializing anymore. There was a huge freedom in that Was it in Manhattan. Yeah, this is in Manhattan, we were staying in the Washington Square Hotel?
Speaker 1:Oh no, we weren't. Yeah, you know, and at that point.
Speaker 2:You've got people you know, like Quentin Crispin, of course, or you know, actually living on a floor, you know, with all the dust.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and you got a park there and a bus will park next door.
Speaker 2:At that point you know you had um, the crack was coming in and you know. Hiv ends is coming in, you know and maybe before HIV was really on the market. But you know it was huge. Yeah, stuff was going on, of course, and you know, and it's, yeah, it was, it was. You know. You land in New York and whoa, everything is there. You know you're with a big theater.
Speaker 1:You're a very young man, you know playing Banquet in this production you know, and um, yeah, and your eyes are suddenly open to it. I think you have to be cut out, not just for New York. I feel, yeah, you have to be cut out for New York If you want to live there. Some people won't go there on holiday because they think it's too much. I get it, even if I go for a weekend. It might be intense and I get it, yeah, but I think if you can survive in New York or you can live in another country for a while, I feel so helpful, man.
Speaker 2:But even then, you know, I mean the thing of going down Christopher Street, which is just across the road. You know, and I wasn't out at the time- anything like that you know and discovering, oh god there's a whole place here. Kellers, kellers, a whole place here, you know. Then going up to Escalitos, yeah, of course, of course, you know Spanish Harlem, yeah and um, yeah, you know, and yeah, um just you have to.
Speaker 1:you have to be that intrepid man, you have to be.
Speaker 2:Wow, what a different life. What a different life, you know, but New York has always been fantastic in that way.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, um, you know one of the one of the tracks that isn't here, which I know you are. I remember going back to New York years and years later with Chili Caesar, which I played Cassius, and you know we're at Bam in Brooklyn, yeah, and they have the, they have this big music festival going on, you know. So every night after the show you're getting invited to just go along and you know you have special guests and stuff and seeing the roots.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Wow Again, another absolutely fantastic live yeah.
Speaker 1:Amazing. These people come on the stage live. You know they lived in London for a while before they got signed. Yeah, so there's some different cultural references to just shake there.
Speaker 2:A lot of people have to come to London. Yeah, of course Bob included, bob Marley included, you know, to really get that. You know that, um, that live chops, yeah.
Speaker 1:And it's nice to have that parallel with you actually, because I think it is character, character, shape and living in the country. And I recommend it to anybody, because you're sometimes you're stripped of your comfort zones and your um survival skills and you just have to learn new ones and trust people and be aware where at the same time, but learn about different people and different things.
Speaker 2:And also, you know, you get to, um, you get to go. Oh, I'm not sure I like that. And then you go oh no, I needed to grow into that, right, yeah, I just didn't have the language for it. Exactly, I remember going to see Solange. You know, um, and you know she wasn't, uh, at Bam. Yeah, yeah, you know, and um, yeah, I'm not sure about that. Yeah, yeah, well, you know she's not bad, I'd say yeah, yeah. You know, and then later going on. Okay, okay, I look like.
Speaker 3:I've grown into this stuff yeah yeah, she's doing the thing here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I like about you you're always constantly evolving on you. Yeah, it's great right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I think that's because you know. I grew up in a time you know, I think, that sort of late sixties, early seventies, you know, into eighties. There was a time where anything was possible. You know, and like I say, you know you, you get into a car you're with.
Speaker 4:Nick.
Speaker 2:Nolte, you know, you pop to the friends and there's Arnold Schwarzenegger there, you know, and you know I go to, I go, I go across the States and um, on that same tour, you know, on that same tour, when we, when we were doing Mackers, you know, and um, we're in the Southern States and you know, because I'm now starting to get a little, you know, a little with the yeah because you know people have been, you know that. American werewolf in London where you go into a bar and everybody goes quiet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:You realize, oh my God.
Speaker 1:I'm on the wrong side of the track. Yeah, of course.
Speaker 2:And then you discover what a sundown of town is. You know and um, which basically means you know if you you need to be across the tracks before night falls. Otherwise these guys who go quiet in here may put on their bedsheets and think yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. And then, and then they hear your voice and go uh, this one's not from here.
Speaker 1:What do we do with this? My English accent, which I've turned up to get me out of trouble in America? Yeah, it doesn't de-black you, but it de-stigmatizes their cultural references associated with what we look like.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Cause at that point, you know um I mean at that point I remember on that tour thinking, oh God, the only person that they've heard of is Eddie Murphy you know um and they don't know what to do with this and uh, but he's different, so he doesn't come from, otherwise he would have known not to be.
Speaker 1:But he's also colonial hierarchy and what comes with that accent. So it gives you a bit of which. You can watch Ed Whitehead as well, and that's that's interesting.
Speaker 2:Right, that's interesting and difficult. So you know, but you learn along the way and you go, yeah, okay, well, I'm on this tour, yeah, and I'm learning these new things. And then you get together with partly because I'm not getting on with people and because I smoke a little and whatever else and so I get together and then suddenly I'm with Al Green's brother and some musicians. And they're being driven to the house and they're jamming and we're all a little high and because of that night.
Speaker 2:And that's the amazing thing. And then, when you're in Detroit, you go to. Motown, and at that point, way back then you know, it was still Motown.
Speaker 1:Of course, yeah, yeah, yeah and it's LA arm.
Speaker 2:It was still Motown, it was still functioning, of course. And going in there and the secretary being on the phone to Smokey Robinson, can I talk to him? Can I talk to him? Can I Just being able to say, um, hi, you don't know me, I'm from England and I love you and I love your music, that's great.
Speaker 1:But you know what I find those things. I'm enjoying celebrating this to you. I live in a moment. I'm learning better to do that as much as I can still. But sometimes I say to myself I'm from Peckamy, now I'm just like how happened, what am I doing here? What? You know what I mean and I don't regret anything. Quote unquote bad that's happened to me. I find they're all part of the story and why I think it's good to have a passion when you're young and apologetically, because it helps you have that passion and it works with youth. And now, when I was like I can now appreciate the whole journey and has it forms, everything that happened in the way I create. But why I think it's important to have passion anyway, especially when you're young, because the things that have happened to you are so near to your age age you don't have that perspective. It can easily make you disheartened and go down a wrong, different avenue.
Speaker 2:But you know, you always grow.
Speaker 1:You know, I mean I, I, I.
Speaker 2:I overdid it, you know. I overdid all the stuff, you know. I took my share and more you know. And then, luckily, because of friends who had gone before me, some who had died, yeah, yeah. Um, you know, I got to be able to go. You know what, Pause, pause.
Speaker 4:You need to get straight with yourself.
Speaker 2:You need to stop doing this because it will drown, you, you know. And so, yeah, in later life, you know, learning that stuff and having people around you go yeah, okay, you know what. I crossed the line. So I can't do that anymore. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can't smoke shit anymore. I can't you know drink anymore. I can't do this in the way that I used to, because it will kill me, you know, because I don't have a stop button.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, bust learning thing, you know. And to know that you haven't got a stop button is, without being so serious where you, you know, to me.
Speaker 2:So great for what I'm doing. The great thing about that is that you stop running from yourself because you go oh yeah, look at me, look at me, Exactly I'm running again.
Speaker 4:You know I don't want to feel anything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you know. Let's get back to your career for a second. So you know to talk about your career, man, it's just so illustrious and it's so diverse and stuff like that. I'm going to pick out parts that are interesting and besides what I want to speak to you about. So, a bit of history and context, about black people on TV, people. When are the black people on TV? Historically, all black people get around because they're on this screen, they're on a box and they've made it, and it's so aspirational, or these people have, you know, opened a Truman door from my perspective, right? So you being on TV as a kid I think when I first saw it it was on the bill, I think that's around 2002, right, and you had a role as a superintendent. That's quite progressive for that time, yeah, I must say. And I still had. No, I think I was over it then, but I had a different relationship with the police. I thought I'd tell you, you know, we used to get beaten up with SBG Special. Forces.
Speaker 1:Group. This is an operation in Trident. They should be stopped and arrested.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they may have been.
Speaker 1:You know, and all that stuff like that. Fortunately I had heavy prescription glasses, so I didn't have. I didn't look like somebody that would be suspicious nature, I was just like a geeky and well-spoken. So just to give you some context before I get to that bit, my mum was quite a traditionalist, right, you know, you must speak the Queen's English. She came from quite a highbrow, from teachers, so it was good to have that. We live in a rough estate, right, I should expect her to speak like mum. Look, I get that and I learned how to do both. Yeah, right, it's the start of the chameleon, right, I learned how to do both.
Speaker 1:I used to be called C-3P-4-0, right, you know, and I used to have this accent that if through the police, right, and because it didn't have and it is white in America, it had the same effects because they didn't associate that accent with anything else but white. So me having this accent in the middle of Peckham just through people. But in terms of my relationships with the police, I saw a lot of friends. I myself get beat up quite a bit, so I was troubled with that, but also inspired by the progressive role that you had.
Speaker 1:But you smashed it. I'm sorry, you're unapologetic and you dropped it. Plus, you had a bit of a black ball with you. You gave it a bit of shoulders you get enough shoulders but you swagged it a bit. Do you know what I mean? I like that because you still brought you, didn't? You didn't even the roles may have been written for a white person. You still brought a bit of I won't say ethnicity, but yourself in it, and I can see it in that. You know, and I like how you did that one. I like how you did that.
Speaker 2:Thank you. What was that like for you? It was brilliant. It was brilliant because, you know, I remember when the first role came up, and I know Paul Marquis, who was the exact producer at the time, he was trying to change the program. The program had been sort of steadily falling Right, you know in terms of, and when he took over, he was one of those producers who had come up through the sort of Corrie Street, you know, Granada School of, you know, really indulging in popular drama, love popular drama, you know, and I wasn't shy of that, you know, and I remember one of the first things that he had done was he got Diane Parish in, you know who's now on EastEnders, yeah, yeah, and you know, he got Diane in because, you know, and then he was asking for a black top cop. Yes, a lot of people didn't agree with it, you know, you know, and he Well, you say, a lot of people talk about execs and things and whatever Right okay.
Speaker 2:And you know and he said well, black people buy washing machines too, and this is soap. Right, Wow, maybe a cop program, wow, but it's soap. So you know they buy washing machines too.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and what it did was it's sort of you know, and I think it's sort of you know, it's sort of you know, and I think they were like three maybe three of us, because he really knew his.
Speaker 1:TV and stuff and he got it the people he wanted. So just for context we don't know the bill was a TV series that came out once a week long run in TV series Twice a week. Twice a week, yeah, and it was about a police station. It wasn't like Hill Street Blues, but it was a British version of crime and like a soap in a way because it's character development.
Speaker 1:It was about the policeman on the beat basically yeah, so in 2002, having a super general was actually plausible, that was achievable and it gave an idea of what the art of possible was for a black person.
Speaker 2:The thing is, you know, I mean the character that I played, I remember on paper. He was called Adam Brackett's God. Yeah, wow, and you know. So Adam O'Kara was what we settled on. I wanted to have him, as I wanted to have an E-bow name, wicked, and so O'Kara as opposed to O'Kara, you know. So God is in the name already. Wow, you know, and I kept that there and I, you know, I asked about, you know, and I went, okay, adam O'Kara. And because I thought, well, he has to have a background based in something he's also you know, both coming from Nigeria and Barbados.
Speaker 2:You know, I was lucky enough to know that there were people around who were this. You know, dalton McConaughey who.
Speaker 2:I talked to, you know various others At the time. There was the chief constable of was it Oxford At the time, who went on to Belgravia and stuff. And you looked at this and you looked at the actual research and the fact is the black cops at that point in the English Metropolitan Service and English Police Service generally had two degrees. You know these were not stupid people. Yeah, you were really clever people. You know who you know. Did the, did the stuff?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you know, and I knew that Dalton, who'd been a friend of my mom's, yeah, who'd come over in the 50s, you know, and I joined the police force and had worked his way up to superintendent and above you know, and there were loads of these people in there who you never saw or heard about.
Speaker 2:You know, one of the funniest things ever was going to Scotland Yard for Social events because I was, I was, I was patron of two charities, or patron on two. Two charities, or one of which was a police In multi-charity, and so I'm gonna go into Scotland. Yard for these sort of things. You know drinks and what else, and I'm thinking.
Speaker 5:But why am I here?
Speaker 2:I'm an actor, and you have people who aren't always here of this high rank and we don't get to see them. So you know it was very important to base and I went out with various ways when I talked to various. You know and they are all there you know what a lot of them go into Laura's barristers. Yeah, yeah, because they get. You know you can, if you enjoyed early enough at 45, you know you can retire.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, had enough of this, yeah and you know all the, you know Canteen culture talk and all the rest of it and you've made it to as far as you want. Again, you've had enough of the. You're being investigated because of blah, blah, whatever you know, and it's all based on your color, and you get out and you go. Yeah, well, I have a couple of degrees, you know.
Speaker 1:I have my, am a this and I go into law and do it from a different side and you know what Representation matters and I think sometimes you can't just have a One-stop shop of what representation should be, and I think that's what sometimes minorities and get into, to Disagreement, let's say, but if you think about who preceded you, that guy Dalton, what you did with a character and what you did into the representation, put in your name inside there, getting people acquainted with you know a name and pronunciations, and you're actually teaching people or Getting that the world or the country to see a different name and it's not to you know, build you know the?
Speaker 2:the fact is, I always say yeah, well, the problem is we got to stop reinventing the wheel, because by now we should be driving the mark. You know, and the problem is that we don't get the chance, mainly by design, I think, yeah, have our history out there. So when I look around and I go, okay, actors like George Harris had already played a superintendent. Uh, you know a detective? Yeah, superintendent, um in Walcott, um you know, you know early on, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So, um, you know, luckily I happen to know George, yeah, um, luckily, people like Norman, people like Rudolph, yeah yeah, norman Beaton various others you know, um, um yeah, michael Abinsett's very, I mean loads of these people, loads of these people had been there, done the stuff you know and done it before me you know, but it's time.
Speaker 1:When you did it, when Black people were, it was a rarity.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, the thing is when, when you are on Twice a week, yeah, yeah, in in what was originally half an hour and then became an hour, yeah, um, you're on twice a week in people's sitting rooms, yeah, and it's selling right across the board. The, the, the bill In terms of advertising had abc, yeah, so in abc in terms of the people who watched it, so they they're Broken down into categories for advertisers.
Speaker 4:So from the top to the bottom.
Speaker 2:People watch the bill, yeah. So whether you were in the house as a parliament or whatever, or.
Speaker 1:Right right.
Speaker 5:So, demographically.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, or you're in shepherd's bush, or you know, you know, whatever it is, people watch the bill, so it was a great place to advertise.
Speaker 1:Well, you caused a lot of trouble because my mom was very proud of you. She was like you know. You know a nice haircut and he's dressed up properly. My mama's meant to be posh in my nice here cost him dressed up properly. And why? Why you can't be like him and put on proper clothes? Your trousers too baggy.
Speaker 2:But that's important to do that. Yeah, we're here, yeah, and we've always been here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, with this clever.
Speaker 2:And we know how to run these things. Yeah, and I'm not gonna wear a chip on my shoulder.
Speaker 4:I'm going to be your boss.
Speaker 2:And I will also come to you know, I remember with a male, a male, amine, when he came in, and I remember there was a particular episode where I was really harsh on him, yeah, you know. But then you saw that Adam, you know, felt, yeah, you have to Not only represent but be as my parents used to say you have to be three times as good.
Speaker 2:You know, yeah, yeah, yeah, and it's sad that you have to be three times as good. You shouldn't have to be three times, but you have a hang on it.
Speaker 1:He didn't like, he was just yeah, but you want a committee. You're like, okay, I'm going to watch you find this or be something like you still brought a spider, the orphan just. And what that taught me is how to be yourself but still be good, but without losing the sense of self, but still be professional. That's a lot to take on.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Um, I like the way you did that and I think for me I speak to Sean about that and so thank you for, whether you did it deliberate or not, for showing the way, how to mix those sort of things and how to get them not about the right path, effortlessly build all those and it helped pioneer myself. I know Sean Burns wrote that, so on behalf of me and other people for that matter.
Speaker 2:Well, I thank you. I thank you. I tell you, one of the proudest moments was um. We did a couple of live programs. This was before Soaps went back to live and it was pioneering at the time. And with the first one, um, you know, we, um, we took it back to, I mean, doing real live broadcast and um. And then the second one, which we did well, only a year later because it was so popular.
Speaker 2:Yeah um, I remember my character had been Sort of sidelined and they'd put um somebody else in his position. And you know you work Over that live, you know. And I remember people watching it live in the canteen. I mean hundreds of people watching it live, you know. You know I sort of five miles of cables. Yeah, yeah you know, it's all. You know.
Speaker 2:It's really difficult stuff and, um, you know, try to time phone calls and all that else you know, and um, and there you get the experience of, um, you know, being a theater actor as well, because you know, if something goes wrong, you can. You can bag it and pick up.
Speaker 1:But you'll keep it moving at the same time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you keep it moving and you know and keep the storyline going. And you know they got a yeah break to there and break to this other camera and whatever, and you've got stunts, all the rest of it counting on you. It's all within and out, and I remember there was a point where the the, the um usurper who had taken adam's position right, whatever um was um thrown out as Not being capable adam takes over again and I'm hearing this chair Really Well come from the canteen with like 200 people. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, as adam took over again and I thought wow, First of all, that's beautiful.
Speaker 1:But those days people Shout out television on people still might like that? Yeah, that's because that's a world that they've drawn into, and the.
Speaker 2:the difference was that Carnival, which I go to a lot, yeah, and I remember at the time being at carnival and having these two cues of people for an autograph one was of black family, female and the, the different generations, grandmother, mother, daughter and child and they all wanted an autograph. And the other was a police superintendent and a couple of customers. Wow, and I thought look at these two kids and people asking for my autograph.
Speaker 1:This is just huge, and and to know that in, to see the effect of your, your success or what you're doing In that way, I think that's a blessing man.
Speaker 2:It was. It was a privilege to do, yeah, and you know, and is also one of the most exciting and Lovely programs to do and that was bread and butter as an actor for a while as well. So you can, you know yeah, yeah, it got me out of Australia as well, you know, financially, yeah, yeah, so good for you, man, good for you.
Speaker 1:Well, let's get into the next tuna. So much to get through, boy.
Speaker 2:Let's get into the next one. What we're dropping. Next one? Okay, select up. This is um oscar peterson. Oscar peterson mumbles right and um. He's not mumbling well. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah and um oscar, oh wow, I was Back in london, yeah, um, having been to drama school. And um, uh, an ex-girlfriend, um, phoned me out and said I got this. Get these tickets for um, you know this thing at the? Um royal festival hall. Yeah, yeah oscar peterson and. I know you like jazz and oh. Nice.
Speaker 2:He was. Yeah, oscar peterson was there and I remember going along and afterwards he had played summertime on this on this specially built piano, with an extra octave in the bass and uh, wow and.
Speaker 2:Yeah, an extra octave from notes in the bass side and at the royal festival hall. And I remember him playing summertime and he used he does this anyhow, you know he, he was a bit like a Keith Jarrett. Yeah, he, you know he, he speaks whilst he's playing, you know, and you catch that. But he had played summertime and it was so beautiful and I realized at the end of him playing summertime, when he pressed the last note, I'd been holding my breath Yep, it was so.
Speaker 2:So I remember walking across waterloo bridge and there was this Cheshire cat, smile on my face and this man. Just perfection, yeah, you know, and sadly, sort of passed into the you know, uh, yeah, into the ether, and you know, not many people Celebrate us. Just such a marvelous musician, and I remember crossing waterloo bridge. I'm thinking this is why I love London and anything can happen in London, like that you know.
Speaker 4:Few hours earlier. You're doing nothing. You're on the dole. You know someone firms you up. You're at royal festival hall.
Speaker 2:You see one of the world's greatest musicians Just in an element, and this, for me, mumbles is sort of improvisational. It's just beautiful playing, it's Scat, yeah, it's everything and it's just.
Speaker 1:So it's something I describe actors life in a way as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, when you it's still one of my favorite views of London you look, you look across waterloo bridge in either direction you go. I live in one of the greatest cities in the world. Love London, man. You know how to come back. Yeah, exactly, you know. I mean, I love New York, I absolutely adore New York. There are moments there like that, but yeah, when I think of Oscar Peterson, I think yeah, and this takes me right back to that sort of play.
Speaker 1:Let's do it. I, you, oh, oh. How could you not smile? You know what he's so funky, so comfortable. He does he can mumble, yeah, right, and tell you that he's mumbling. Yeah, I still kick it. I'm gonna enjoy it. How is?
Speaker 2:that so free. And one of the reasons because we missed out the roots. You know, because I took about, took the roots. But, you know, the fact is that, yeah, you know, I wanted to get that vibe as well, because, um, yeah, what he does is he shows you what you know, just the skill of that age of artist, you know that can do it all and you know all these artists.
Speaker 1:But it means also that he's music is so translatable, he doesn't have to speak a language. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Does don't need a word, don't need a word. Talks to your insights, right, talks to your insights. You know, and that's when you know.
Speaker 1:When you can feel it right this is what I mean about music as well. I saw I'm gonna be deep here when you can just feel it and just know a you're free inside, but music can unlock that for you. Yeah, do you know?
Speaker 2:me yeah, it's the ghost bumps, it's. It's a good one yeah.
Speaker 1:Talk to me about your relationship with London and why you just love it as a city, even now.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, I mean, I remember arriving in London um In 68, and one of the first memories was Flying in. Yeah, it was early evening, but it was dark. It was september and at that point it used to get dark, dark. Yeah, um, yeah and um, just seeing all these lights. It was the first time, you know, as a seven-year-old, seeing these big lights through the window and, um, yeah, there was just something about it and, I suppose, because it was slightly disappointing in some ways, you know, although I always expected that I would still meet, you know, you know, um the Beatles and yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And and various others you know, walking across, shepherds were going to screen. Yeah actually wasn't that far from the truth really, when you think about it, because the BBC was down the road. Yeah exactly, the performing theater was just there at shepherds. And yeah, so all these people, you know the old great whistle-testing things used to be fun. I love that show, yeah, and you know, and I just yeah, London is one of those. It is whenever I go anywhere else. You know, I always smile when I'm coming back into London.
Speaker 2:It's home and you know, there are just so many memories and you know a lot of these tracks are. You know, they're all quite old, they're all quite you know, of my youth and they're the things that formed me and there were so many more there. But it's all really sort of centered around that growing up and that is London, and you know I often look and think wow you know, what? Yeah, I live in one of the greatest cities in the world.
Speaker 2:You know and I know just like New York changed between the time I was first there and what it's like now when I live there. Yeah, it's still got that essence underneath it that everything is possible here, absolutely Anything, and everything is possible and it's out there for you to go and grab.
Speaker 1:Yeah, nobody says it's going to be easy, you know, but it is as you've run. That's such an inspiring thing to say, and to be in a place where you're still inspired is important, and fortunately it's in your hometown, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's just brilliant, you know. So, you know, and I still oh, it was shocking Live in for the city. Yeah, it came up there, yeah, but you know, the fact is that, yeah, it's just one of those. Yeah, it's just all life, is it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know, but you know what I can see where people can be disheartened and things change. Life changes, but I don't know. Without being too hippie about it, I think to be inspired and to have passion you have to know, you have to have that, to know where a city works for you or what doesn't. Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:You have to have a reference point, and this is what I'm thinking about passion and following your nose or having something inside. So you have that reference point to make a city work for you, even if it's not this one. Yeah, again, my passion and following it. I'm homer in his home, but for me it's been so important, yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm so glad I've fallen in love with my passion. Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know it's just. Yeah, it's all here for me. You know I, yeah, you know I've had lots of friends move. I'm a townie, you know I'm a townie. I like the countryside, but you know what I need town.
Speaker 4:I need the energy of town.
Speaker 1:And the edge, yeah, the edge of it.
Speaker 2:The edge, yeah it just yeah, it makes me live, and so I'm not moving to the countryside. You know I may visit, you know, but yeah, but that's why for me, you know, if I have to be in the state, new York is the place I live, because it's a town, you know, and London has that in Spades. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it's just the romance of London, you know, I just feel, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's quite cool to live in London. So we are going to be biased when we say that London's quite cool. I'm going to be totally biased.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't care whether you live north or south London.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know you're at London. Yeah, yeah, you just emigrate to south London from west London.
Speaker 2:No, yeah yeah, yeah, you know what? Yeah, well, I think it's. Why is Chris? Because?
Speaker 1:I'm from south London region.
Speaker 2:I live in north there. You see, you've obviously gone up in the earning bracket now. No, it's so you've moved to the north London. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no At the downside spots. No, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 1:North London is quite wide and it's long right. First of all, I got a peck of arm right. So I got a peck of arm, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you know, I used to have some distance away from trouble or stuff like that. It's more of a Geographical, it's fortuitous in the way you know, when I came up for America and get an education and where it went and up. But I think I needed some distance from where I grew up. Yeah, especially, you know, sexuality, aspiration, you know, and having like distance to be yourself. I still need Still being close enough to make people think without getting drawn into things as well. Yeah, yeah, if that makes sense, oh, that's cool, yeah.
Speaker 2:I've just written the answer last week whether I would take on a patron-ship of the Etta. Peckham, which is a small community thing in. Peckham Beautiful, punching way above its weight. Yeah, you know, fantastic, run by Suzanne McCrane at the moment, uh-huh, and yeah, it's fantastic. And yeah, of course I would. Yeah, you know, that's the stuff that you know. Yeah, yeah, I'm passionately in love with South London, you know. You know, you talked a bit about clubs in South London, you know, of course, and yeah, there were loads of wonderful clubs in South London.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, so you managed to your raven, you managed to follow your nose. You got into not following I mean following your passion. Yeah, you got into your acting school. Did that cement your career for you, or did you do it because it gave you an education and some formal training? And see what happened.
Speaker 2:It gave me an education and it also it was a halfway house for my parents. You know, being a kid from those family backgrounds, you know education being really important in terms of. You know we're going to work our way out of here, you know. And you've got to have an education to do that. What it did, was it said yeah, he's still doing education, even if he's throwing away his you know all his stuff. Yeah, he's throwing away all his stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but he's getting an education.
Speaker 1:So did those pressures come? Were they subtle? What I mean is like, again, what some people don't know is my mother came from a very not middle class, upper middle class background, jamaica family of teachers. She had staff, you know, I mean helpers, blah, blah, blah, and it must have been a culture shock for us to come here without all the same, not amenities, but you know things that you know, done in a certain way. So was that for you, but in terms of the private school you went to in Africa?
Speaker 1:in Nigeria coming and having a life that was in London, but not what you were actually used to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because you know, I essentially became a refugee with a single mum. You know so from privilege as such worked for privilege but became a refugee with a single mum. And you know, sometimes I remember talking to John Barnes at some award ceremony a little while back and remember the fact that you know as a footballer, if you look across his family, the generals and others blah blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 1:High-proud Jamaicans High-proud.
Speaker 2:Jamaicans, you know. So football, yeah, I think his dad was.
Speaker 1:Was his dad high in politics or something like that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, what are you doing? Football, and you know, so you've got to go. Yeah, okay, am I throwing away what my parents worked so hard for?
Speaker 1:But you know what it's the way you kicked in, though, because you didn't just act. Oh, I've made it. I think with some actors I'm not going to say anyone's here and in particular, they can play the safe game and they can be typecasts, but you've not refused to do that. But you're so multifaceted in the roles you chose.
Speaker 2:You want to play different stuff?
Speaker 1:Some people don't know.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to be tied down to. I remember, you know, I was offered the bill a few times before getting there as a regular, and actually about 10 years before, maybe even 14 years before. I don't know, before I got there as Adam O'Carro, as a regular I played a barrister who was prosecuting a rapist and because he was black and the judge was biased and whatever didn't- you know he didn't win the case, but I had been offered various other roles where I had been a thief and whatever.
Speaker 2:I remember reading the script of one of them and saying, well, yeah. But at the beginning of the episode he is seen running and the police are on their way up in this block of flats and yet he goes back to the scene of the crime, knowing that the police were there.
Speaker 4:I said well what kind of idiot is this Exactly what kind of idiot is this, Jesus, lad I?
Speaker 2:know you know what? No, I'm not playing that because I don't mind playing a villain, right? I'm not playing a stupid villain, I just think it's important to get you know there's nothing wrong with playing villains.
Speaker 4:I think, actually for a long while I've longed to play the villain.
Speaker 2:It's often far more interesting, you know, playing Cassius. I much prefer that, but you know what To playing someone who is so squeaky clean.
Speaker 1:It depends what you do with villain, but it depends what role you play, because some people suddenly can't. They like you to be an actor and they see it as acting, unless it's some role that they disagree with, but you're still acting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So you know, I mean, but that happens a lot. You know, with cucumber I've never encountered that yeah. I've encountered a lot of people who. Yeah, but you're playing a gay character.
Speaker 1:Talk to me about that one, because that must have been such a brave?
Speaker 2:I don't think it was brave. I don't think it was brave because if you read that script, mm-hmm, and I read that script and Russell T Davis, yeah, you know, absolutely genius.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I saw the outtakes. You're so happy with the script? Yeah, impressed by it, yeah.
Speaker 2:And the fact is that if you're given that script and you go, oh well, what will they think of me? You? Know, are they going to judge me? And actually when I got the part, there were a few times where other actors, other black actors had were considered for a role where Lance's character, after he split up with his partner.
Speaker 2:Vince Vincent's character had another relationship, the burgeoning of a relationship. They were involved in sex yeah, or at least attempted sex yeah Didn't work out with this particular character, but it was a wonderful part and I remember there were a couple of actors who passed on it because they didn't want to be seen in that way, and you know what.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's cool for you. So hold on a minute, hold on a minute but.
Speaker 2:I'm an actor, exactly, exactly. The label is on the can actor. Yeah, so I should beand if I'm turning down stuff, that's great, because you know what? And one of the reasons I left the bill was because I had become patron of two charities, you know, linked to policing. One of them was Gallop, which is anti-domestic violence and stuff I mean it?
Speaker 2:And that was cool. But there came a point where at LWT, the offices of LWT on the South Bank, they used to have this big mural of various characters that were across ITV at the time, and Adam was one of those, along withwhat's the name from EastEnders, not Ina Sharples, yeah, I mean just these were big, big ITV characters. And there he was and I realised that what was happening was that I was getting put into a position where I was having to represent every black man.
Speaker 5:Yes.
Speaker 2:You know, and I go well, but I'm an actor and so I'm not that. And there are these people yeah, yeah, yeah, and therefore I have to step out because I'm still going to be an actor and I don't want to be stuck in this.
Speaker 1:The thing is about that and that's really brave of you and what I want to say about your role there and why other actors might have turned it down Sometimes, and this is why representation matters and your portfolio matters. Sometimes America needs a voice to hold black, black people and if you're European or white, you can be German, you can be Italian and they've got those different areas of whiteness. But we don't get that and we're not afforded that sometimes, and I think the fact that you played that role it opens up black characters and black people in a wider context.
Speaker 2:What was great about it was that, yeah, he was a middle aged one, one we never see middle aged character we didn't a lot. He wasn't camp, exactly, you know. And so we get into this thing where you have to be a certain thing, you know, and if you are going to be that thing, you have to fit into a certain role of it, and that's great, fine.
Speaker 1:But you're hypermasculinising. You're hypermasculinising, yeah, which is good.
Speaker 2:No, exactly, you know, he's not having to be one thing or another he can just be the person and deal with, because you deal with all the same issues, because you're a human being on the planet. Yeah, so you deal with the big questions of life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, and Shakespeare has them all down, yeah, so if you want to go, look, you know these are the big questions, and so you're going to deal with those, but from the point of view of who you are, and so that's the great thing of playing characters like that. You know one of my favourite characters ever on television, oma In the wire In the wire, you know? Because not only is he gay, but he's a dragor. He doesn't apologise, he's a Robin Hood character. He look at that, that is beautiful, that is rich. You telling me that somebody would go? Oh yeah, but yeah, well.
Speaker 2:I don't want to play that because they may think I'm gay. Yeah, but how is acting.
Speaker 1:Please get over yourself. Exactly, Exactly. You know he's a gay human being the play him as gay play him as a human being.
Speaker 2:Thank you, you know, because his sexuality is not everything about him.
Speaker 1:But what I liked about your role when you play there is after talking about another podcast the role of when you not on the gay scene but with the gay community. Either you're doing high kicks and pointy toes, you're on campus as Christmas, or you're hyper masochistic into this thing, which can actually instill fear and racism, but you can't be anything in between because they can't see where you fit culturally on that and I think me playing football and using roles like that it actually filled that gap and so I had to introduce black characters or characters or the human nature of characters that are not polarizing that way.
Speaker 2:The idea that you could just be a human being. How about that? Yeah, I mean, how fabulous, you know, I'm not being led around by you know, if you were to treat every heterosexual character as, oh, you're being led around by your genitalia? Yeah, you know you don't have wants or needs yes. You know, it's just your genitalia running you.
Speaker 1:But also what causes. That is not just that. Is that human representation is our flaws as well? We have. We have flaws, similar or otherwise. And I think sometimes in the black community they might say why did you, why did you show this about us? Because we're human beings as well? Yeah, it works both ways.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Exactly, Exactly, and I just think it's. You know, I think it's pathetic to go down that road. There is I'm just looking it up now but there's a Susan Batts and who's a? Who's a teacher in in New York does, is a tutor, actress, acting coach for Nicole Kidman various others Right and she her book, what's it called?
Speaker 2:It's called once. Is it called once? Yeah, I think it's called once. Yeah, I mean she's, she's wonderful, you know she. She won an Obey Award for, you know, yeah, acdc way back in her career, you know. But it's yeah, what she does in that book is she looks at you know she looks at you, know she looks what the actor is you know, so give us a bit more exposition.
Speaker 1:Being non-actor. What do you mean by that?
Speaker 2:Well, when you're approaching a character, you look at what the wants of the character are, what the needs and wants of that character and what you will do to get them, subconsciously or otherwise, cause everybody wants something. I want love in this situation. I want money out of this situation. I want notoriety in this situation.
Speaker 2:I want fame. I want what are my needs and wants and all human beings have those things. You know Particularly in terms of love, or you know being held or warmth or whatever that has nothing to do with your sexuality. So play the person, play their wants and needs and how they strive to get those things fulfilled. Wow.
Speaker 1:So I'm just thinking about somebody even if it could be myself in my earlier life looking at a character that has those depths, wants and needs. But you're also marginalized. In a way, you're being more mature than maybe people who may not have the things that they have to address those problems.
Speaker 2:Exactly, that's the stuff you've got to look at, and I just think it's one of those things where okay.
Speaker 1:So was it easy to play that role? Or did you get any capacity, or did you? You must have touched you in some way before.
Speaker 2:The writing was so brilliant and it took a lot of auditioning for that role of Lance in QQM. But Russell is such a brilliant writer, you know yeah.
Speaker 1:Was it written for a black person, though, or was it a person?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was written for. Yeah, it was written for yeah, Wow.
Speaker 1:So did you have to tweak bits? No, not really Okay.
Speaker 2:No, but who's writing? A gay man.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:You know he was writing. We actually filmed in a place where he met his partner, who sadly passed on there. Yeah, when Lance and if it's a character, me we met in the flashback where Russell and his partner met in the same bar Beautiful right, you know and yeah, all that sort of stuff. So yeah, it was written.
Speaker 2:One of the marvelous things about it was that when it came out and I remember the first episode coming out and in the Washington Post and I think it was in New York Times- the publication of something, one of the and I remember there was a review where you know, at the end of the first episode they Lance is arrested because he's got upset, yes, and you know they tried to threesome thing and, yeah, vince's character calls the police and I remember in that thing the person reviewing said, well, obviously they weren't really compatible, because anybody who's been with a black man for nine years and they choose to call the police and then get surprised that the person arrested, yeah, is not the perpetrator outsider in the relationship, but your partner, who happens to be black yes obviously doesn't know enough about their partner or has
Speaker 4:chosen to ignore it.
Speaker 2:Or you're not actually compatible because you're living different lives. So and I thought, wow, how astute. It wasn't really picked up on here, but you know all those things were behind it and I just thought this is just such a brilliant piece of writing. I remember the speech where he and this was in the audition. You know it was a long audition and then we came back in Manchester and met people and you know I didn't think I'd got it and blah, blah. And I remember this speech which was just rambling and you know he's desperately asking him to marry him and it's such a wonderful scene.
Speaker 2:And I remember learning that and it just sort of rattled off and you know when you go oh yeah, this is. This is cool. This is me. This is a side of me which I don't know, but equally, yeah, I can see this being real and that was what it was, and it was just such a gift. It was a gift. Those come along. You know, only you know. I can imagine when Michael got Omar he must have thought what a gift.
Speaker 1:You know what? I think that's really come under review as well, because I think, as you said, some actors might have turned it down because of the perceived pressure or backlash that I have from any community in terms of authenticity or any correct thing to do, because I might think why are you playing a role that's not us?
Speaker 2:Well, actually it is us.
Speaker 1:But it's not a large majority. Or well, there is, but it's not openly out there.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, it's not the acceptable in quotes forms of us that are allowed, you know. So you're not allowed to like Abba and hip hop. Yeah, exactly, I mean, I did.
Speaker 1:In fact, you're not allowed to play Abba. Dj play hip hop. What do? You mean you're going to play JIs in between? That? That was a bit risky, wasn't it? No, I just know what I'm doing. I'm allowed to like Oscar Peterson as well. Yeah, it can be typecast as a DJ, trust me.
Speaker 2:And if you know your stuff, you know exactly where Tupac got that from Exactly. You know, or you know exactly where, yeah, so I'm not going to limit myself.
Speaker 1:Well, you know it's not just sorry another incoming compliment there but I'm referencing who you are and why it's impressive because it reflects in me and I'm a similar in a way. I'm apologetic on what I do and I think I'm trying to promote purity and honesty in everybody's lives across the board, not just sexuality. And when I first met you, when I saw you went to an opera, an open air opera in Regent's Park, and you just cracked me up right, you're spoiling that People you don't understand. You just bowled up. Right, you just got off his motorcycle bike, holding his bicycle helmet in the levers, just bowling up like that. I thought, yeah, nice, it works, but I like that. He's like he's a motorcycle jack, he just owned it and that aspect I'm not saying it's a white thing on a bike, but that's a non-stereotypical thing that you did, that you actually enjoy and you're not doing it for effect and you've fallen in love. I like bike biking.
Speaker 2:I've had a bike called my life, Wicked I like that, but it's good.
Speaker 1:It's an individual thing and your individualism is not just being axed out. All the roles you choose, you actually live it as well. I think that's really important for both sides of rounding off authenticity.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, well, you know this is, I ain't got that long hair, you know what? But you know what I'm saying, I know.
Speaker 1:That's so positive about that Not just giving a fuck of me a rebellious. You're actually interested in what you're doing and you're wearing it. You can tell us what that's fake. Well, you know I.
Speaker 2:Before I came out, you know, and I'm a guy with two kids and all the rest of it, you know, and yeah, I could live your life and be, you know, really unhappy, or I can live my life and be happy you know, and at the end of it all I don't wanna go. Thank you very much. That was depressing. Sorry, you know no you know what? Yeah, and God did I have a ball, thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you, and we're still on right now, living in the moment, so thank you for that. Listen, let's play the final two before I say thank you and teta Okay, what we got, what's coming on?
Speaker 2:Well, this is Gil Scott Herron, and Gil Scott Herron, absolutely genius with flaws, yeah, you know. Out of that tradition of the last poets, yeah, you know. If you wanna get into hip hop, if you wanna get into rap, if you wanna get into anything, if you wanna get into musicianship, you know. If you wanna get into activism, yes. If you wanna get into just living life on the edge, right at the top, I remember being in Newcastle and you know.
Speaker 2:You see, bro, I thought you were and I'm touring and I have a night off, and they told me that just down the high street. There is this absolute legend playing tonight in a tiny little club, tiny, and his name is Gil Scott Herron, and I was like oh my God, oh my God, amazing, I don't believe this.
Speaker 2:And I have to go, of course, and so I go, and Ha ha ha, gil Scott Herron, you know, I don't know whether he was in between redackses in terms of his drug taking- or whatever, but he may have been using it for all I know but in this tiny club that I don't know well, like 200, 200 people at the most, yeah, yeah, and he just played and was just outstanding, and I didn't ever think I would get the chance to see Gil Scott Herron you know, having followed for all these years and he played this number, which is just one of my favorites. And it's about activism, it's about musicianship, it's about just putting words together in a way in which effect? And yeah, Johannesburg.
Speaker 5:One, two. Now you know what to do, mmm, and tell me that our brothers over there are defined to be headed. We don't know for sure because the dude we get is unvaluated. Yes, I hate it when the blood starts flowing in, but I say the system's flowing in now. Somebody say what's the way? No woman, have you had me Out your head and back. Somebody say what's the way. Say, have you had me Out your head and back? Gonna get over the time. You all now, and I know that they're suddenly over there they ain't gonna creep ahead Out of town here. Yeah, but we've all got to be stuck in. Say, if we want to be free and just want to be free, free, free. Say, keep it being alive. And tell me that our brothers over there refuse to work in the mine sometime. They mean I get to know them, but they need to know we're on their side full time. Yeah, so to have this to bring this all to stay here. Yeah, but they miss my heart and happy man here and I talk about it. Say what's the way? Somebody tell me what's happened In your head and back. New Yorker. Like your head and back Ellen. Like your head and back Peter may not have a word.
Speaker 5:They said what's the way? Somebody tell me what's happened In your head and back DC. Like your head and back London. Like your head and back. Peter may not have a word. They said what's the way, woo, let me see your eye deep. Let me see your eye deep Proving to you and let her be in your head and back. Peter may not have a word. They said what's the way, peter, like your head and back. Somebody tell me what's the way. Say what's the word. What's the word, what's the word? Peter may not have a word. They said what's the way? Thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 1:John Adams Bay. How do you feel? Thank you very much. Amazing, and you know what I like about seeing artists outside of big major towns. It can be a bit more chills, intimate and, in terms of activism, what that song represents. Does that take you on your journey from?
Speaker 2:fleeing? Yeah, it does. I remember. In 1976 I wrote a project on. Soweto at school just after the summer where Soweto uprising and I wrote this project and it was that hot summer where 76 was the name ran across the cricket pitch nude and all that sort of stuff was going on.
Speaker 2:And I remember I was in the school for copying the streaking thing, charles Hendricks, who was from South Africa, who was at Holland Park he was head of Norman House and he caught me. It was a deer. It was one of those deers where summer of madness and somebody did me to streak like she had done.
Speaker 1:So hold on a minute. You had your business outdoors.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was in the West Corridor, second floor of Holland Park School, splendid From one toilet to another and, unfortunately, as I ran past in my nudity with my clothes under my arm, charles Hendricks stepped out of his office and saw my naked buttocks going down the corridor, and you know.
Speaker 1:Oscillating, oscillating buttocks.
Speaker 2:I ran into the toilet and started getting dressed and he came up after me and he then how did he know it was you Worked as he checked the doors and there was nobody else in those cubicles.
Speaker 2:I was hurriedly trying to get dressed and I was taken straight to his office and he explained to me that I was letting down the black teacher, asian black mix and Indian black mix and he explained to me that I was letting down everybody as a young black man and he felt I needed the cane and you could cane people in those days. So he did. He gave me six of the best and I remember thinking how did?
Speaker 2:he and all this and that. And I also understood that he was a man who had escaped apartheid, who was a teacher, who was head of Norman House, holland Park School, and he felt that I was in doing that disrespectful to all that had gone before me. And this was the summer of 76 and over the holidays we broke up and I wrote a project about Soweta and the uprising and put all these pictures in and I wrote that famous shot of you know, running with the child in the arms and and yeah, and Girls got her. And you know, in terms of activism, in terms of musicianship, in terms of Just like Nina, hitting it right on the head and also being capable of Transporting you to another place, live, and getting all the energy out of that yeah, you know I'm Johannesburg is one of those uplifting yet Fighting tunes and it just yeah, it just really appealed to me.
Speaker 2:I've been very lucky in in you know, in being able to say you know that my profession and Pursuit of my profession has taken me around the world. You know, to all these places and you know we talk about London, but it's going to the jazz cafes and seeing Rishan Paterson, you know, it's going to. You know these little tiny places. You know, I grew up down the road from Earl's Court and old school was a big, big venue and we used to bunk in. If you lived on the West Brompton side of Earl's Court, there was a little sort of a Ramp which Trucks used to go in for the stage and stuff, and then on the side of that there was a little fire inlet and If you crawl through there you were on the stairs and then you would just work your way down and get into the hall and you know and oh yeah me and other mates used to do that sort of.
Speaker 2:Jackson five there. So Dylan, so David Bowie saw the Osmans. We went to everything. We went to everything and anything you know. Yeah, and this was just you know um you had an adventure man. This was, this was having fun. You know this was.
Speaker 1:So when you can do that stuff, it's so nice to hear that I mean you're right. But I mean, yeah, say you were roughly. I consider a part right but and usually Generations might progress in terms of the freedoms or their state of mind, but it's like you've got more you behaving with more freedom. Some of the contemporaries, or the kids, are now in.
Speaker 2:When there's less now they've, yeah, but now they've climbed down on all these things.
Speaker 1:But what I'm saying? You're right, but what I'm saying to is like, where do you, how do you manage to? I mean, I've got my toolkit, but what do you say? Your talk it is for without having the experience, life experiences for you to have. All this is what to be? Not carrying the pressure of race, sexuality. Obviously it comes with flows, but how do you still manage to balance all of that and have that balance of who was in parallel?
Speaker 2:well, I think I think, if you for me, if you've come from a situation where it's life and death then you realize that life is short, I've no and and you know you have to grab it.
Speaker 2:You have to grab life and, and you know, enjoy it, because there is no time. You know there is no time when, when you're gone, you know, and no matter what your situation, grab it, grab that life, go out there, grab, get it. You know, enjoy those experiences because you know one of the one of the tracks that I didn't play rock and roll suicide. Yeah, you know, when I went to drama school, I remember playing that over and over again and I remember feeling quite sad at points when I was lonely and stuff and Discovering sexuality. I remember going back To my flat after an evening, after a day at drama school. You know you got all the outside stuff and you know the enjoyment and the Pretending to be the large one and blah, blah and all the rest of it.
Speaker 2:And you get home and you know, and there's me and mom used to write letters you know, and you know, actually Query me about my day and stuff and what was going on and talk about my sisters and stuff, and I still you know.
Speaker 2:I mean, I treasure those letters now, you know I'd write to. I hadn't told her, but I, you know, felt about certain things, you know, cuz I had a girlfriend. But I also, you know, double with me drama school and blah, blah, this and that and all this stuff. And and I remember putting on David Bowie, who I loved, absolutely loved, thought was genius, and playing rock and roll, suicide over and over and over again, and feeling sad. And you know, life is so short.
Speaker 2:You know, from an early age I saw, you know, people lose their lives, you know, and I hadn't dealt with a lot of that. But what? What slowly but surely came, was that I have a chance to live this right now, and you know why. A Certain point, you go well, I can either live somebody else's life or I can live mine and I can either waste the time I'm going. I'm not gonna do this, I can go. Yeah, you know what that person really thrills me. Let me go see Nina Simone, because she may not be around that much longer. You know, when you go and see her. And then she, she didn't want to play my baby, don't care, because she didn't get any money for that. You know, she was adamant and you know people in the audience were calling for as she walked off, took time for the coaxer back out, because I did you know.
Speaker 2:She said I'm not a performing fucking monkey. Yeah, and that's the stuff you know I remember going to Paradise garage.
Speaker 1:Well, I went to.
Speaker 2:Paradise garage. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and this was on a night that you know I'm in New York and I go along to this people a color meeting, yeah, and there are a lot of young gentlemen there and I'm new in New York. Well, at this point, you know, I didn't know these guys. And Grace Jones, anyhow, is playing wicked a paradise girl. She does keep us waiting two hours Because she's demanding that the money gets sent to the hotel first before she come in at anywhere.
Speaker 1:Yep, yeah, she don't trust. She don't trust these bitches. I Wish I was born like maybe ten years before, cuz I missed all that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but she comes on and she plays Stage up for like two hours. Did you go? Look at me living in this little me after a boy?
Speaker 1:I'm young as you, but I'm so proud of you, man, and you know, and You're not your human being. You've got equal place like I have anywhere in the world, your world citizen, your global citizen, and you can be where you can be and and you being an apologetically you not just a person in England or London Worldwide is a while got you on a show and you're a living example of what we all need to be going forward, just to break down stereotypes and move forward and get going with it.
Speaker 2:Just grab it, cuz you ain't got the time. Don't waste the damn time waste the time arguing with anybody and doing whatever else. Go grab yours, cuz it's out there and you might as well enjoy it.
Speaker 1:Listen, sir. On that note, thank you for inspiring, thought provoking jokes, everything like that. Um, it's exactly what you know. I'll put in a show for, and more. Thank you for coming, man, and keep doing what you do, thank you, thank you, bless you.
Speaker 2:Thank you, brother.