Mista Pierre's Fortified 45s Show
Mista Pierre's Fortified 45s Show
Mista Pierre's Fortified 45s Show - Season 3 Ep 4 "The Sequel" with David Nathan
Send us a text with your support, comments or feedback.
Discover the raw and thrilling energy of 1974 New York through David's eyes. He recounts navigating the city's initial grit and discovering its vibrant opportunities, including an unforgettable Aretha Franklin concert at Radio City Music Hall. As David adjusts to his new surroundings, his connections with industry icons and attendance at a black gospel church in Harlem illustrate the profound influence of music and community on his life.
David's Selections
A Brand New Me - Aretha Franklin
Baby Hang Up the Phone - Carl Graves
Ready For This - Revelation
That's the Way of the World - Earth, Wind & Fire
Face The Music - The Dynamic Superiors
Everybody Loves the Sunshine - Roy Ayers Ubiquity
Mista Pierre's Fortified 45s Website
Mista Pierre's Instagram
This is my same old coat. These are my same old shoes. It was the same old me with the same old blues. Oh, then you touched my life just by holding my hand. When I look in the mirror, I see a brand new girl on me. Just because of you, just because of you, just because of you, just because of you, just for you, just for you. I've got the same old friends and they've got the same old sins. I tell them the same old jokes and I get the same old grins, but now the joke is on you. It happens somehow with you Every day of my life.
Speaker 1:I'm as fresh as morning dew, just because of you, just because of you, just because of you, just because of you, just because of you, whoa, whoa, whoa. Just because of you, just because of you, I go to the same old places and I see the same old faces. I look at the same old skies and see it all with a bright new light. I've got a bright new voice and I got me a brand new smile Since I found you, baby. I got me a brand new style, just because of you, boy, just because of you, boy, just because of you. Oh, I feel good. Just because of you. Oh, I feel good, just because of you. Oh, I feel good, just because of you. Oh, I feel good. Hey, just because of you. Yes, I do. Just because of you. Oh, I feel good Just because of you, boy, just because of you, boy, just because of you, boy, just because of you, boy, just because of you, boy, just because of you, boy, just because, because, because of you, but just because, because, because of you.
Speaker 2:The lyrics of Brand New Me are kind of significant because when I went back to London I realised well, you know, I'm kind of in a rut here. I thought, oh my, what would it be like if I was doing this all the time? 45, 45, 45, 45, 45, 45, 45, 45, 45, 45, 45, 45, 45, 45, 45, 45, 45, 45, 45, 45, 45, 45, 45, 45, 45, 45, 45, 45, 45, 45, 45, 45,.
Speaker 3:Welcome to 4545,. My name is Mr Pierre. Hello everybody, how are you doing? I hope you're doing well. I'm fine and dandy, as usual. Today. I have got part two. I've got another chap, not another chap. I think the chap's been here before. It is Uncle D. I've got Uncle D back in the building for part two of his stories exploits, dramas, adventures. We love it all. We had so much great feedback from everybody. Thank you for your comments. Thanks for your DMs, david. Welcome back to 4545. Thanks for coming along for a second time.
Speaker 2:You are most welcome. I'm very excited about doing part two. Who knows, part two might lead to part three, four, five, six, seven.
Speaker 3:Don't try it.
Speaker 2:Don't try it, but I'm also grateful to all the people who responded so well to part one it is, so it's really great.
Speaker 3:I'm joking how many episodes can we have? As long as you've got the stories?
Speaker 2:you're more than welcome to come back. I've got the stories. I've got the stories.
Speaker 3:Brilliant. How have you been? I know it's only been a short while this time. You've been back to LA and back again here in the. How are you feeling?
Speaker 2:I'm good because I just celebrated a birthday, which is why I thought it was great that you could put in a brand new me, because that is how I feel. Listen On my birthday just gone.
Speaker 3:Your birthday bonanza. Happy birthday, sir, to you On behalf of me, the crew at 4545 and all the listeners out there. Listen, you're an upstanding gentleman. Many happy returns. May you have many more thank you very much.
Speaker 2:I really appreciate that and I intend to and more good, good, good, good.
Speaker 3:Well, look, let's start the podcast off from where, sort of like where we left off. So we had all your wonderful stories and you know all the parties. You went to all the work, you got Nina Simone and you started touching on Earth, wind and Fire and living in New York. Talk to me about roughly around 27, when things started to change for you. Do you want to pick it up from there?
Speaker 2:the brand new you at 27 well, yeah, what it was is so that the point that we're referring to, which is, I guess, around the summer of 1974, is when I had a flatmate or roommate, depending on which country you're in named Gary Gary and I we're flatmates in a flat in Tottenham actually, and he went on holiday, and ostensibly he was on holiday, but he ended up staying in New York and he had an aunt there. Anyway, the bottom line is he invited me to come to New York in October of 1974 on holiday, and I'd never been to America. Of course, I knew many people from America and I thought the idea of going was like, wow, okay, and so I accepted his invitation and I arrived and I stayed with him, and the one thing I can say is really funny. I'm remembering when I got off the plane, gary was a little late reaching the airport and I was like, oh, I don't know what to do, I've never been to America.
Speaker 3:I'm not saying a word.
Speaker 2:I was freaking out a little bit, but anyway. So he arrived and then he said, well, let's go. And we went back to his place. He said, well, let's have a shower and all that. And remember, I've just gotten off a flight. And back then flying from London to New York was not, as it took, a little longer than it does now, should we say so. I was zonked out in different times. So if we go to a party it's a Saturday night. I'm like, oh my god, that was my introduction to New York.
Speaker 3:so two things there. Prior to you going to New York, were you excited by where all this music was coming from? America, this big country where all this great music was?
Speaker 2:There must have been some sort of mystery, excitement, or yeah yeah, and the person that was in, the person who founded and created Blues and Soul, john Abbey was the editor, and the founder would go to america to do interviews with people, right, so he could, you know, to the magazine. We did stuff with people in england too, but he that was, he went to america a lot so he'd come back and tell stories about what it was like. Then I had an idea of what it was. Yeah, so yeah, but being there was a whole different experience. So, um, and just to kind of encapsulate it as best we can, so the first week I was there I hated it. I couldn't stand it because it was dirty.
Speaker 3:Where were you staying?
Speaker 2:I was in Brooklyn Were you in. Brooklyn. Brooklyn wasn't horrible, but the city Whereabouts in Brooklyn.
Speaker 3:Do you know where you're working? No, I don't remember. Big up to Brooklyn all the Flatbush.
Speaker 4:Queen hey, hey, hey.
Speaker 2:Brooklyn's in the house.
Speaker 3:Brooklyn's in the house. Copmaster DC Karen anyway.
Speaker 2:So I stayed with Gary and then we went to. So first week was just why I didn't like it. It wasn't so much in Brooklyn, it was just that I thought the city was dirty. Yep, people were rude. I mean, the whole city was like, yeah, why are people calling this so wonderful? The second week, so I was there for about total of about two weeks, and the second week everything changed. It was in the first week. It started to change.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because I got to, even though I was on holiday. I got to do some interviews with people Right, which, even though I wasn't there to do that, I thought well, yeah, John Abbey said well, you do some interviews, I was there. I chose three artists Labelle group Labelle.
Speaker 3:As in Patti Labelle.
Speaker 2:That's Patti Labelle, nona Hendrix and Sarah Dash, and they had just had a big hit. They were having their first big, massive hit as a group LaBelle with Lady Marmalade, and then the other one. Then I chose Asher and Simpson because I'd already been listening to the first Ashford and Simpson album and I, of course, was very familiar with them as songwriters and producers yeah, producers. And Motown, of course, yeah. And so I got to. For the first time ever in my whole life, I think, I got to be in the home of anyone who was a recording artist of Note. So I went to their townhouse in midtown, manhattan and did an interview ashford and simpson, yes them. And I was so like wow, I couldn't even get my head around that I was sitting in their house. That is so mad.
Speaker 2:And and at the time valerie was pregnant with her first child and, um, she wasn't very communicative which I found out like she was generally how she was anyway, but she was a little bit less communicative because she I guess nick didn't love talking. Let's put it like that. Yeah, so we get to the interview. It's a little story. I just remember remembering this story. So the interview's over and I said thank you so much. Writing notes I did not take.
Speaker 3:I was about to say there's no tape recorder, it's all shorthand, right.
Speaker 2:It's all shorthand, it wasn't? Yeah, just making notes on a piece of paper, so then I'll get to. So Valerie left when I did. She said I need to get a taxi. So I said you don't like doing interviews much, do you? And this is very bold of me. I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 3:We know from our previous episode that you're quite. You know you're shy, but you're kind of brazen as well.
Speaker 2:Well, I can be so.
Speaker 3:I said.
Speaker 2:She said no, I don't. I said well, okay. I said okay, well, that was it. She was honest about it. She said I don't really like it and so I helped her get in the taxi and that was that. And then, as it turned out I mean over the years that followed, I did many, many more interviews with Nick and Val, and we'll jump to a little bit about that later, because one of the pieces of music we're going to be playing was produced by them. But we'll hold off for a moment talking about that.
Speaker 3:Did they produce California Soul as well?
Speaker 2:Well, they wrote the song.
Speaker 2:They wrote the song right and the song was actually first recorded a piece of minutiae for all the listeners. Some might know this already the very first person to record California Soul was actually Nick Ashford as a solo recording very rare, very hard to find. And he actually forgot he did it because when I asked him and Val, years and later I said you know the success of California Soul, marlena Shaw, the late Marlena Shaw, much missed Marlena Shaw, and they had a little argument about it in front of me, she said I said did you know? You did it first. And they go no, I didn't know. And Valerie said, yes, you did no, I don't remember that. So he goes, no argument, they were just they're having a dispute, difference of opinion, difference of opinion. And then she said, yes, you did you. And then she said yes, you did, you did it as a single or whatever anyway. So the bottom line he fessed up, he didn't even remember his version of it.
Speaker 4:So that's who did.
Speaker 2:California Soul first, anyway, the third artist, so I did LaBelle, nick and Val and Millie Jackson no kissy on the belly button and stopping, just get on down and part time which would be a whole episode unto itself, and maybe when we do part three four ten we would talk about miss millie. So that was new york, and then the thing that capped it all off for me being there was I went to um, I went to see, I went to radio city music hall nice um, because the at the Atlantic Records publicity person, barbara Harris, she had found out how much of an Aretha fan I was, and so she said I can get you tickets.
Speaker 2:I couldn't imagine. So here I am at Radio City Music Hall during this first visit seeing Aretha Franklin, and the opening artists were Blue Magic. So hold on one second. This is 1975. This is 1974, 1974 wow on this first holiday and the opening artists were Blue Magic. So hold on one second. This is 1975? This is 1974.
Speaker 3:1974?.
Speaker 2:Wow On this first holiday.
Speaker 3:And what album was she promoting? What was she singing?
Speaker 2:See, the album had just come out. Then it was called Let Me In your Life, nice, and so it's kind of interesting that we picked Aretha to begin this show. Yeah, because of course, that's the first one I saw on her home soil, so to speak, and it was an amazing show. And the other thing to say about it is that, so, reflecting on why brand new me?
Speaker 2:because I went back to england yeah after this two first week of horribleness and second week of absolute, amazing, amazing, amazing, amazing experiences I was like, well, you know what? I need to move, I need to go, I need to go yes, yes, you did, and, and so I was like well, I took a big a bite of the apple and it took a bite of me.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you've got a big apple hey whatever did you get to meet her?
Speaker 2:frankly, at this point, yeah not I had met her before in when she came to london.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, but not other than that okay, I did interviews with her on the phone. Right went for blues and soul during the time in between. Yeah, but I didn't. And on that particular occasion, at ready city musical, I didn't get to meet her but I did. Yeah, so sure. But the thing I was going to say is that why the lyrics of Brand New Me are kind of significant? Because when I'm back to London I realize, well, you know, I'm kind of in a rut here. I mean, I can't nothing wrong with my friends, I love them, but they're the same old friends things got stale, right yeah, things got stale right, yeah, and socially, and I'm like, well, okay, it's time for some.
Speaker 2:I've got to mix it up a little bit somehow.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And having done those interviews, I thought, oh my, what would it be like if I was doing this all the time. So I went to see John Abbey, the editor of Blues and Soul, and I said you know, I really want to go back to America. He said, well, we prefer you stay here. You're much more used to us here. Blah, blah, blah. Well, I bought a ticket. I just went and bought a ticket. I told my family. They were like what are you going to do? I said I don't know, I want to write, I just want to write.
Speaker 2:And at that point I didn't have a gig. I mean John hadn't said yes. I said, well, can I write? He said, well, no, no, we're going to do some new here. Three weeks before I left, he called me into his office. He said you bought your ticket, didn't you? I said, yes, I'm going, I'm really leaving, I'm really leaving, really leaving. Decision's been made. And he said well, I'll tell you what. Let's try three months. If you can produce enough work in those three months for me to justify paying you for those three months, then we'll revisit it at that point. And so off. I went on February the 8th 1975.
Speaker 3:Now, before we jump there, before we jump there, before we jump there, what happened with the record shop and that sort of stuff. You know, in our previous episode we talked about the record shop.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, that was long after that you moved on from that. Well, yeah, yeah, because I was working with after Soul City stopped being in existence. I was working for Contempo, which is the parent organization or the company that owned no Contempo, oh, not Cool Tempo.
Speaker 3:No, not Cool Tempo.
Speaker 2:Contempo was a company that owned Blues and Soul was actually John's company. Right, contempo was a company that owned Blues and Soul. It was actually John's company. And so under the wing of Contempo was Blues and Soul magazine and of course we had Contempo Records, at one point a label, and then he would bring over artists from America. He did promotional, they did promotions. They'd bring shots over, like Al Green. Al Green of Bloodstone brought over Roberta Flack for the first time. So we do shows in England. So that was also part of the Contempo world. And of course there's the record shop, which is a part that was quite well known to people in London. On Saturdays people would charge up the long, unwinding staircase to the office of Contempo where they would be greeted by moi and others selling the imports which you got the night before. So Contempo was a hot spot really it was and I remember.
Speaker 2:now I think back to some of the people who are now quite well known in British life and beyond. Like Jazzy B was one of our customers, a few of the DJs I'm trying to remember who else I've got to get him on the show. Actually, all kinds of peeps came up, yeah.
Speaker 3:Nice, but anyway, so that's Contempo.
Speaker 2:So February 8th 1975, a week before your birthday, let's say, that's right, you were in New York City I was All right and Gary had moved from Brooklyn and and he was living in the East Village.
Speaker 3:Nice.
Speaker 2:Well, it wasn't. Oh, it was kind of dumpy.
Speaker 3:I mean, east Village was not like. It was kind of like. So you're talking about Lower East.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, exactly Lower, exactly Lower East.
Speaker 3:There's some good record trips there. Now though there might be but back then it was like rough.
Speaker 2:So I'm in there. And so Gary met me at the airport on February 8th, took me back to the new place he was in and, yeah, kind of getting acclimatized to being there, and the night of and the next February 15th, the next day was my birthday. So February 14th, which is called Valentine's Day, Valentine's Night, Gary went out somewhere and he didn't come back that night. He was getting his freak on. Well, when he was getting on it wasn't making sure that I woke up in a lovely place for my birthday. So I woke up on February 15th by myself. I don't think I even had keys so I couldn't have gone anywhere till he got back in the apartment by myself, no one around me.
Speaker 2:My february 15th birthday, I think I did place a call to my parents in england to hello, but it probably cost a fortune Back then you couldn't just call somebody. Call to the operator. Anyway, the bottom line it was a horrible birthday, Horrible, and as you're waking up, you're in a new country. You know, and I was, how old was I? I see 75. Do some math here quick. Yeah, I was actually 27 on that birthday, Damn. And so here I am and feeling lonely and alone.
Speaker 3:It's quite harsh having a birthday straight after Valentine's Day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, that part's not so much a problem. The problem is more that you kind of show up in that particular birthday. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Gary shows up at some point in the day oh, I'm so sorry, I wasn't really keeping track so you know it in the day. Oh, I'm so sorry, I wasn't really keeping track, so you know it's my birthday. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know why I'm after that Probably went to eat something, do something, I don't know. So it was a horrible beginning of my birthday, but it did not in any way mar my experience of America. I said no, no, no, I'll have my next birthday, it'll be wonderful, and we'll get to my next birthday on the next show. It was a year later and it was not so wonderfully. There was a party and we won't talk about that on the air.
Speaker 3:Exactly, it's a family show. Jolly good, it's a family show. Tell us how you became this international correspondent and part of the black press well, here's what it is.
Speaker 2:Um, when I first got to new york, um, again, I was on a three-month trial basis, as john said, see how it goes. And then, um, you know, his mandate or my, it was to do as many interviews as you can, just and just interview everybody. I mean new artists, you know, everyone has a new record out, he said, because that's how I can, I can justify paying you, okay. So I began, through a couple of people already in new york helped me to meet some of the um, some of the record company executives, executives, the publicists, primarily the publicists, and at that time major record companies had the bigger record companies had what they call black music departments or divisions, and so I was really considered, even though I was international, even though I was international because it was Blues and Soul writing for a British magazine, I was still kind of considered part of the black music press or the black press, because that's how they did it, these departments I believe we've talked about this before.
Speaker 3:Harvard did a study on the black populace and increasing spending power they were having. Was that the impetus for these subdivisions or areas to be creators on each of these record labels?
Speaker 2:Yes, yes. And the short answer is yes, because what had become apparent is in the early 70s I think it was the early 70s there was an awareness that the major companies, smaller companies, were catered more for the R&B soul world, so to speak. But major companies didn't really have, they weren't necessarily that involved with what we would call R&B or black music at the time and they realised they were missing out.
Speaker 3:Was it selling quite a lot.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean it was selling, but I mean the major companies weren't really in it, you know what I'm saying Atlantic probably was about the own Motown. Well, yeah, we exclude Motown because Motown was a black-owned company.
Speaker 3:I was thinking like Stax.
Speaker 2:Stax and Motown would have been considered because they were independent companies, they weren't owned by, they weren't like a CBS or a Warner's or those main ones would have been CBS, warner Brothers, atlantic, atlantic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but Atlantic was already pretty much into the world of Army, see, at one point it became Warner Brothers, electra, atlantic they weren't a company, but the point I'm making is that some of those companies so if you think of Weir as a company, apart from the Atlantic part, they weren't very heavily invested in the world of R&B. The other one was Capsule Records. Capsule Records was actually one of the first companies to initiate having a black music division, and so there was an awareness that they were missing out. If you're a corporation, you want every dollar you can get. So there had been a study done by Harvard University looking at the spending habits, I think, of the African-American population and how this was an opportunity that was not being really capitalized on by the company.
Speaker 3:This is before I got there. Yeah, this is post Martin Luther King civil rights and pre-exploitation era Post.
Speaker 2:Yes, post. Yeah, it was post. It was post. Yes, absolutely. So we're talking about the early 70s.
Speaker 2:And then I think one of the first most important deals in that time was when Clive Davis at CBS Records did a deal with the up and coming producers, songwriters Gamblin' Huff, Kenny Gamblin', leon Huff, who were just starting, and actually so CBS helped launch Philadelphia International Records as a label that Philly sounds helped launch philadelphia international international records as a label, that philly sound and that was really a big deal, you know, because there's a major corporation, uh, investing in a in in a black owned company and really the sound, I mean, you think about those early hits, your backstabbers was the first yeah, can you for our listeners?
Speaker 3:can you tell us who gambler of hoff were and what songs they produced, famous ones that they would know?
Speaker 2:So, prior to starting their own company, so to speak, kenny Gambler, leon Huff and Tom Bell, who was part of the same Philadelphia. Jamaican isn't he, well, he was, yes, of Jamaican origin. Yes, yes, they started out in Philadelphia. They weren't all working together at the same time early on, and Gambler and Huff's first success came with. I'm going to think about this for a second. Well, here's one. Tom Bell's first success was with the Delphonics.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:And Kenny Gambler and Leon Huff started producing artists, actually for Atlantic. They did some recording on Wilson Pickett. Yeah, the hit, big hit when they had a hit called Engine Engine no 9.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2:And then so they were independent producers Apart from Atlantic. I think they did some things with other companies, but I remember particularly their contributions to Atlantic. They recorded Dusty Springfield, wow yeah. Yeah, they did some things with other companies, but I remember particularly their contributions to Atlantic. They recorded Dusty Springfield, wow, yeah, yeah. They did an album with the group LaBelle and Laura Nero singer-songwriter Laura Nero which was a big success. So they were starting to develop a sound, yeah, and so those are some of the earliest hits. And then with Tom Bell, of course you know they started working with this after the Delphonics, with things like Didn't I Blow your Mind this Time. Then comes the Stylistics so the Stylistics is a big group for Tom Bell, so that's really how.
Speaker 3:And then after that the Spinners, so Gambler and Huff were the and they did OJs and stuff like that all around the same time, all around the same time 72, 71, 72, last geeky question the spinners became the Detroit spinners afterwards. Am I right in saying that, or are they two different people? No, they were.
Speaker 2:The Detroit spinners were from Detroit, but they were only called the Detroit spinners in England because there was already a folk group called the spinners. Right, so in order to distinguish between the spinners and the and the, the american spinners and the folk group singers yeah, the folk singers in britain they had to call themselves the detroit only from britain right so all the, all the albums. Looking my way, but yeah, there you go, that's later. By then they went, I don't know. Well, they probably were still called the detroit spinners up to some point.
Speaker 3:Yeah, okay, so go on.
Speaker 2:So you're talking about gambling and half-sour, oh, yeah, so no, it's all right, you know, it's all conversation, you know. And then, so at that point, as I said, they did the deal with CBS and Philadelphia International became a major player in the whole world of R&B, competing then with Motown, with Stax, and then you also got I'm forgetting not that we should forget Holland, doja Holland with the Invictus and Hot Wax labels in Detroit. So these were all examples of where the R&B artists and labels were doing well. So then along comes CBS, with which filled out for international, and Capitol Records had already started to get into it too. They began with Tavares, followed by Natalie Cole. This all comes in 74, 75. So they were all building rosters.
Speaker 2:And so, therefore, to go to where we were speaking about me showing up. So I was like a boon to them. Here I am, this guy from Britain, I had knowledge, I knew what I was doing. Well, I didn't know what I was doing, but I knew about the music and I show up, and they're like wow, and given the mandate to interview everybody, I was like such a gift to them, like, oh well, come on, excuse me, come on in?
Speaker 3:Yeah yeah. Did you meet people that you didn't know much about, so you had to freestyle some of the interviews as well? Or did you have prior knowledge of most of the people you interviewed?
Speaker 2:If there were people I didn't know. And of course, let me say this, there were a lot of new artists. Yeah, a lot of times, yeah, the record company would give you a bio to read so you knew who, or they wouldn't buy Oggs but that's what you'd read to find out about them. And of course they would give me the music to listen to a lot of times before I did the interview so I'd get some familiarity with them. But a lot of them had had some records out. I'm trying to think who were the. There were some artists during the year of 75 that I interviewed who had just literally began their recording careers Like. One of them was Randy Crawford, 75.
Speaker 3:Nice or she's 76.
Speaker 2:But I know there were a lot of people that were just beginning their recording careers, so yeah. And then there was all the ones that I'd already been around, so I did interviews and in 75, I got to do a lot. I mean, it was literally everybody like Al Green, and then other artists like First Choice that I've been listening to, gloria Gaynor, so a lot of the artists who were really beginning their careers, as I say, was the established ones. So, yeah, it was a mix-up of new artists, ones I had always wanted to hear and interview. How was that for you? Was it exciting? Oh, man, listen, you know, thinking about the world, man, come on now.
Speaker 2:When I was in london prior to making that move, so to speak. Thank you, shalamar. Name check, name check. Sorry, I'm a walking list of song titles. Go anyway. Um, prior to that, you know my everyday life, as I said, it was kind of. It was okay, I wasn't nothing wrong with it, but it wasn't fulfilling and so I had to go to work every day. Working, that wasn't bad. I worked in the offices of contempo and then I would, you know, work every day. Uh, because part of the office was a record shop that I worked in.
Speaker 3:The mail order.
Speaker 2:Let me give you, you're in england now yeah, that was in in England prior to it. So I'm saying comparing that to how life was when I got to America, where all I was doing was writing and going to shows and getting free records, I mean the first time I started getting like promo LPs.
Speaker 3:I'm like what it's great, isn't it? You've arrived. I couldn arrived, get over it, man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, when you get your first promos you've made it, and then everyone would put me on the mailing list, yeah, and then they had part, you know, showcases and parties, and yeah, I mean can, and I was, yeah, really yeah, and I just turned 27, as we said, and you know the idea of having this whole. It was like a dream life, yeah yeah I mean it really was.
Speaker 2:I don't know that. I really, at the time, I mean I don't know if I would say feet touched the ground, I don't even. It was so like outside I imagined I didn't know it was going to be like that. I mean, it was a like stepping into. It was like you know, it was like stepping out into a world and not knowing how it was going to be. And I really have to say now and I've done this many times subsequently to thank John Abbey, because really, who's John Abbey?
Speaker 2:The guy who started the magazine Blues and Soul who was the one who said oh, I don't want you to leave, but if you're going to go, go, but you have to do a lot of work.
Speaker 2:Big up to John Abbey for that Really still and I've spoken to him. He's still around, thankfully he's a grandfather, he lives in Atlanta. He still manages and tours with 3 Degrees. He's been managing for a long, long time and I always tell him thank you so much because if you had not finally said yes, I might have had a completely different life look at you with your humble self expressing gratitude like that.
Speaker 3:Respect that's as I said, you're a trailblazer in that sort of way and the fact that you're still humble and expressing gratitude, that's really really good for the future and for other people to see as well. So respect for that. So you're doing all these shows, etc. Etc. Etc. What happens?
Speaker 2:well, one day I can tell you. What was hilarious is, as part of what happened was when I would meet some of the people who were the publicists. They didn't know what to make of me because I had a huge amount of curly hair. I mean, it wasn't just a little piece of curly hair, I mean, I had a massive cut mop of hair, not mop. I love curly hair, all right, all right. And people couldn't. It was so curly and it was my hair. I didn't have it permed or done anything. That was my natural hair.
Speaker 2:So anyway, I was kind of, you know, out there. I was out there, man. I've still got photographs from that time period. So when the publicist first met me before I spoke, if someone met me for the first time and they were being introduced to me, they assumed, as I later found out, that I must have been a very light-skinned Puerto Rican person, or, as they use a different term here, he would have said mixed race and they would have said biracialacial, however term they used. But the point being, because of my hair and because of how I dressed, and although my skin was pale, that didn't necessarily compute that I could be what I really was, which is a Brit, so when I would speak sometimes they'd do a double take like where are?
Speaker 2:you from, I'm speaking. Sometimes they do a double take, like where are you from? I'm British. And later on Pablo says, years later, he tells me well, we couldn't make you out. We're like where is he from? Excellent, and then I astounded them with all my knowledge of the music.
Speaker 3:You know I speak to Cyril Henry about that and the British accent and how it works when you live in America. It just stuns people because of the association with that accent, whether it be post-colonial, pre-colonial, whatever. The association that people have with that accent, especially when you're in America, can get you in and out of trouble. But it's also quite interesting when people just turn around and react.
Speaker 2:Do they get you in trouble?
Speaker 3:No, Out of trouble, more like. No Out of trouble more like oh, okay.
Speaker 2:That's the answer I'm sticking to. Well, it got me in trouble sometime, but we ain't going. This is a family show. It's a family show. We can't talk about those things on the air.
Speaker 3:Well, look, let's play your first song. Yes, yes, yes, it's called Baby. Hang Up the Phone by Kyle Graves. Yes, yes, and let's hear the story behind that.
Speaker 1:Oh, I wonder how many times I've dialed this number.
Speaker 1:Oh, I wonder how many times I've dialed this number. Baby, hang up the phone. Baby, hang up the phone. You don't wanna hear me cry. Baby, hang up the phone. Baby, hang up the phone. You don't wanna hear me say goodbye. Oh, I wonder how many times I've dialed this number and kept you on the line. Oh, I wonder how many times I've dialed your number. But, baby, please hang up the phone this time, cause I don't wanna keep you waiting. When I stop to speak, I'm hesitating. Baby, hang up the phone. Baby, hang up the phone. Baby, hang up the phone. You don't wanna hear me cry. Baby, hang up the phone, please, baby. Baby, hang up the phone. You don't wanna hear me say goodbye, goodbye, baby. You don't want to hear you say goodbye, goodbye, baby.
Speaker 1:Oh, I wonder how many times I've dialed this number and talked to you this way. And oh, I wonder how many times I've dialed your number. But this time I've got nothing to say and I don't wanna keep you waiting. But when I start to speak I'll hesitate. Baby, hang up the phone. Baby, hang up the phone. You don't wanna hear me cry. Baby, hang up the phone. Baby hang up the phone. Oh baby, baby hang up the phone. You don't wanna hear me say goodbye.
Speaker 2:That song is a song that came out, I think, in the summer it must have been the autumn of 1974 During the time period when I was still in London, living in England and going through the whole thing of like. Oh, you know, this is like I need to change some things. I'm like, you know I need to change and at the time I think the actual song itself was inspired by a romantic situation I was in where whoever the object of my affection was or the object of my desire was not as easy to reach on the phone.
Speaker 3:Wait, wait. Is this in America or over here In England? Uh-huh.
Speaker 4:And Struggling.
Speaker 2:And so the song, just when I hear it, it still affects me the same way. I just get like really in this kind of melancholy, wistful kind of state. It's like a beautiful recording and just to say that one of the most amazing aspects of me having then gone to America is I got to speak to Carll graves at one point and to talk about the, to talk about the record which, funnily enough, was not on his album. Yeah, one album out on a and m records and for some reason the single was not on the album, but nonetheless, was it a big?
Speaker 2:hit. Uh, it was not a big hit, it was an r&b hit. It wasn't a big crossover, it was it didn't do, it did okay, but man, that song because it reminds me of my last time, my last time period in london and then going to new york and you know, living the life is this post franklin? Oh yeah man oh franklin boyfriend from 1970, 1967, oh yeah oh yeah, there was a few after that okay, okay.
Speaker 2:So the relevance of that song was that when you were over in America, or it was, relevance was when I was in England, and and then what became so amazing again is that when I was in America, yeah after I got to live begin to live.
Speaker 2:There is I got to uh speak with carl graves. I mean the idea of being able to speak to someone whose music had really kind of it wasn't like somebody had loads of hits, but who had just like really touched me. The idea of this guy, you know, this guy, this song that had like been, it's still still.
Speaker 3:Now I can hear that song ago, it just whatever it is what's your trick for being not being overawed and remain professional interviewing to get the salient points out of what you need to to get the interview successful without being sort of wowed. How do you sort of like?
Speaker 2:well, I think at that time everything was wow, yeah, at that time because I wasn't this is not what I had been doing for a living I did interview, just to be clear, I had been doing some interviews in London for Blues and Soul as part of my, but it was part of my job.
Speaker 2:I didn't get a bit extra to do that and I did some great interviews in London with people. I mean, I must say I never met anybody, but it wasn't, I was just really beginning that whole journey and so I think that part of the thing of not being bored about meeting people I mean I was, I mean I can't say that I was never like, oh my God, I can't believe I'm meeting this person whose music meant so much to me or has meant so much to me, me, but it was more that, um, the one thing that I seem to say I would say brought I brought to the interviews I did was, in most cases, a lot of knowledge of the actual recording artist's history and that distinguished me from a lot of my colleagues in america for the backstory.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I also knew the music from listening to it in England and for a lot of people at that time you have to create some context for you, I mean for people in America, the people we thought were special, that was just an everyday thing for them. I mean, every city in America had an R&B radio station. Here that didn't even exist. We had clubs, we had people playing stuff in clubs, but it was not R&B stations really. So you've got to think that it wasn't part of the culture here, even though there were people who loved the music. But in America, every time you turn around there's a radio station, there's a record shop. I remember the first time I went to Harlem and there were record shops. Like I had done, we did with Soul City in.
Speaker 2:Britain but record shops are all over the place they only sold R&B and soul and gospel. So it's part of the everydayness of life. So it wasn't as special as it was for me and for the people who were reading about it in London, because I was running for a British magazine and most of those artists had never been to England. Many of them had never been there. They were just names on record.
Speaker 3:So in parallel then it wasn't like living in the UK. How did you make the adjustment socially to live in America? Because for me, lucky, I just got thrown in there and I just enjoyed it. But how was it for you? Because obviously you had your social network that you developed in the UK and though you parked those, all those relationships evolved and it always happens when you meet new friends and you take another stage in your life. So how did you develop your social network outside of work, going forward? How did you manage to replicate that in New?
Speaker 2:York. Well, yeah, I mean to be honest with you. I mean, a lot of my social network did come out of my work. Yeah, yeah, they'd have parties, they'd take a coach. You'd go on a coach to a concert with all the other press people Outside of that. I think the person, probably the person who was most responsible for that was my friend, gary, because he was still living in America. He, of course, you know that by then I had got my own place, oh yeah, well, I only stayed with him at the very first few weeks and then Blues and Soul had an office in New York for a photographer.
Speaker 2:It was a photographer who had the studio in New York that was the Blues and Soul office, and I used to sleep on the sofa because there's no fair enough whereabouts was that?
Speaker 3:that was in Blues and Soul office and I used to sleep on the sofa because there was no.
Speaker 2:Fair enough. Whereabouts was that? That was in Midtown Manhattan, nice, and it was in a famous building called the Westerly. The Westerly was on 54th and 8th Avenue and the actual building was called the Westerly, like I said, and it had a little bit of a reputation, because some of the ladies of the night used to do their purloined their wares in the building.
Speaker 4:Oh, it's good.
Speaker 2:Purloined. Oh, listen to me Getting all wordy on you.
Speaker 3:Purloined for the purveyors.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, purloined for the purveyors. But what was so funny is, around the corner was a police station, so the police station were out. They turned a blind eye or something.
Speaker 3:Yeah maybe they were the most popular customers, Well they might have been, who knows?
Speaker 2:But anyway, that was one of the things about the West City. It was a nice building, though A doorman. A doorman, I can't remember his name now Doorman Nice.
Speaker 3:Living it up always. So you're just up from Hell's Kitchen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, kind of yeah Around the corner. That was on 9th For a second.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, yes, and 9th Avenue, yeah, 9th, yeah, yeah, yeah, but anyway, and I did my. The first interview I ever did with Gloria Gaynor was in that building, because her manager lived there, yeah, and I would have to check which it was. I think it was. Yeah, it was in 75, because I wasn't, it was in the first few months, and then I got my own. John Abby said, well, okay, let's get you your own place in the first few months. And then I got my own. I got my own.
Speaker 2:Uh, john abby decided, well, okay, let's get you your own place in the building. Yeah, so he told the photographer I'm sorry, we can't use you, we can't use this anymore, because, well, because he still did photography for us, but it was really like we need a place for david to stay, and after I was proving that I could justify being there. So I got in that same building, my flat in the west of Lee, and that was a Blues and Soul office, and so what I was going to say? So, gary, even though Gary and I weren't living together, we still socialized and Gary would go take me to clubs, bars, all over the place, and I was meeting this, that and the other.
Speaker 3:What's the name of my carry-on? Yeah, go on.
Speaker 2:I shouldn't say this, that and the other I was making new friends which actually would be a good lead-in to one of the records we're going to play. Oh, I see, because what it leads into is a story of one of the people I met in new york, um, as part of my socializing, getting to know people, and so in a sense it was work related because, um, this is a group called revelation and they were quartet, uh, and I first heard them in actually on that first visit in October of 74. There was a showcase for them. Atlantic Records had a showcase. They had just signed to RSO Records, which of course, is the label best known for the BGs and so forth.
Speaker 3:Yes, Saturday Night Fever albums. Yes, all that.
Speaker 2:But anyway. So I'd seen them at the showcase and I thought they were incredible. And the background of the Revelation was they were all from a much bigger group called the choir, called the New York Community Choir.
Speaker 2:A massively well-known group, anyway. So when I got to New York I did an interview with Revelation for their first album and during the course of it I asked if anyone could take me to a church, because I'd never been to what I called a black gospel church, because there was no reason I would go to one in England. And there weren't that many of them back then in England at all. There were a few, but it wasn't like a lot. And so one of the group members, arthur Freeman. He said yeah, no problem. He said, let me know which Sunday you want to go Get to Harlem man.
Speaker 2:It was in Harlem. Yep, yep, yep. It was on Lenox Avenue. All right, I think it was Lenox. I might get the street cross street wrong. It was either 115th or what.
Speaker 4:Anyway, it was in Harlem.
Speaker 2:And so Arthur said I'll tell you where to go, because he was in the choir so he couldn't come and meet me. And that was my first experience of being in what I said, a black gospel church. I called it that because I didn't know what else to call it, and it was. I mean, wow, I mean. I can't even begin to see what it was like, so it's perfect.
Speaker 2:Of course I can yeah yeah, and so Arthur also became. We became friends, I mean really, and he was one of my first real friends in New York, like outside of the work environment. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and we went to see a couple of shows together. We really got to be real friends and I really so appreciated beginning to develop friendships.
Speaker 2:Now did you go to see this choir on a Sunday Not the New York Community Choir, no, but the choir he sang in was a choir. I'm sure some of the people were in that choir but yes, at some point I did. In fact, new York Community Choir went on to record as a group and they recorded for RCA Records and they had, I think, the record. It was probably we have to look at the date that was not too far after the Revelations, it was probably about 77 and then a massive hit with a song called Make Every Day Count. I mean, yes, I got to know other members of the choir. It was just a really. I mean, those were my first real friends in New York let's play Revelation.
Speaker 2:Get Ready For this, because that's really what it was when I got to church. Arthur should have said to me get ready for this ok, let's do it.
Speaker 3:Are you ready for this, are you?
Speaker 1:ready for this? Are you ready for this? Are you ready for this? Are you ready for this? To let you know there's a job we have today. Situations are bad, but your time is right now. Make a decision, let's get it done. Sometimes, after tomorrow, you know that the world is gonna change. You better get ready. Don't wanna live in vain. Take a stand, it ain't wrong. Take a stand, stand up strong. Oh, it ain't wrong. Take a step, stand up strong. Have a step, get ready for this. Get ready, yeah, get ready, get ready. Get ready for this. Are you ready for?
Speaker 2:this. Are you ready for this? Are you ready for this? Are you ready for this? The thing to say about that is they did a whole album and it was recorded. I think most of it, if not all of it, maybe not all of it most of it was recorded in Philadelphia at Sigma Sound Studios, which of course is this famous studio in Philadelphia where all the big hits came from, and a lot of the musicians on the record were members of the MFSB group of musicians. There were all the Philly hits. It wasn't produced by Gambler on the Hop, but it was in there. I went to one of the sessions. I didn't go for the whole album, but I remember going to one of the sessions to Philadelphia.
Speaker 2:They were just an amazing group because they were using those gospel harmonies Just incredible. But I would say the members of the group, at least other than Arthur, we really became friends, like I said. So the other members of the group are Benny Diggs, who's still very much around and has made an incredible contribution to not just the gospel, to R&B music. He's still considered an important part of the whole world of music of that time and beyond. And then Arnold McCullough, who has subsequently become a solo recording artist over years, spent many years on the road with James Taylor. Nice Jazz group isn't.
Speaker 3:James Taylor Quartet.
Speaker 2:No, the other James Taylor. How Sweet it Is To be loved. Oh, his big head, oh my God. In James Taylor quartet. No, the other James Taylor. How Sweet it Is, oh, he's a big hit. Oh my God, james Taylor music. Ah, we got you. No, no, no, hold on. He covered how Sweet it Is, but that's not the song. James Taylor, fire and Rain. Well done, yes, james Taylor.
Speaker 2:He was on the road a lot with James Taylor and then he started his own solo career. Arnold and I stayed in touch. We haven't been in touch for a while, but he established his own career. And then the other person who, unfortunately, arthur, is deceased, and so is my dear friend Philip Ballou, who's the other person in that group. And Philip became one of the primary background vocalists for Luther Vandross.
Speaker 2:He also did some background work with Arnold, with James Taylor, but a lot of Philip's recordings name checks, I should say would be found on his productions by Luther, on Aretha Dion, luther's own records. He went on the road with Luther. He was one of his touring background singers, yeah, and just an incredible singer, incredible singer. And so the other thing about Philip is we actually did work together. We did a. I helped work with him on creating a demo for him as a solo artist. Unfortunately, we were not able to get a deal for him, but as life turns out, man, in the way that you can never really think how it's all going to turn out, his first demo recordings are now available as fully finished recordings. You can find them because I had them digitally remastered and available and uh, so we credited me, philip and john simmons who was the other producer on it um, uh, as the producers and songwriters, and uh, yeah so I never thought that was all gonna happen, but there you go so
Speaker 3:that's my first people I socialized with so that was your first network, your internet.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah nice, that was amazing.
Speaker 3:Did you feel like settled in new york now once?
Speaker 2:I would say that by probably by the summer, I felt like I had made friends, and then, of course, through gary, I made friends with some of his friends that became my friends too. There was one guy I'll never forget this story is so funny, I'm just reminding myself of it. One of Gary's friends was a guy called Ron Simmons. He was not related to John Simmons, so I mentioned recently, just a moment ago, and you know so it was John, and there was guy called james and all the friends of gary right, and when ron first met me he thought I was very british, which I was, because I spoke with a very british accent, you know do you lay off?
Speaker 2:it well? No, I didn't. That's just how I spoke. I didn't have any of the americanisms that crept into my speaking over time but anyway, um we, he thought he got the impression I was very kind of kind of prim and proper he did. I don't know why. I guess maybe he associated people from britain as being prim and proper are you not prim and proper anyway?
Speaker 2:so he showed up at my flat one because I said my own place, yeah, and he showed up at my flat one because I said I had my own place. Yeah, yeah, and he showed up at my flat one Saturday night I was afraid to say night.
Speaker 2:I think so and he says you know, rang the doorbell and blah, blah, blah. He said listen. He said I'm taking you out to a club. I said okay. He said because I think you need to loosen up. I'm like okay. And so that because he had this impression of me of being like very because he didn't know all about my years of boogieing in London, he wouldn't know that.
Speaker 3:Slackness.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, because of hush. So anyway, you see, this is what happens when you do an interview with people who know too much about your life anyway. So the point, because I hadn't really gone anywhere, I mean, I went out with Gary, but I hadn't really gone out, and so Ron said I'm going to take you out, have you loosened up? And I guess he wasn't prepared.
Speaker 1:He wasn't prepared he wasn't ready he wasn't ready for this.
Speaker 3:Oh lord I think I am go on or that, but anyway, so yeah, so he.
Speaker 2:So that was well well, well, no, no, the point I'm making. The point is we went to a club.
Speaker 3:Well, what kind of club was this though?
Speaker 2:A dance club. What kind of club it?
Speaker 3:was ambiguous there, Not gay, not straight oh yeah, no club, gay club, gay club. See, that's kind of important. So how did you Whoa, whoa, whoa, pull over, hold on, hold on, hold on now, come on now. No, no, no, no bite-sized chunks. How did he know your business? How did you know you were gay? A and b? Which club was it? What happened that night?
Speaker 2:just a little bit of like how did he know I was gay? Well, gary, who was my flatmate in london and was then my flatmate initially in new york, and was, of course, my friend, my only real social friend, he would have defined himself now as fluid Yep, that was not the word term we used back then. Yep, and the first remember. I told you of the first party I went to when I got off the plane. Yep, well, that was a full-on gay party. Okay, full-on, full-on, on, on, on on, okay, and I was one of the only people.
Speaker 2:I think I might have been one of two people with a lighter shade of pale Right, but the hair helped Okay right. Anyway, so that was it. But the hair helped, okay, right, anyway, so that was it. And so Ron took I think I'm 100% sure he took me to a club called Better Days. Okay, better Days was a gay disco, yeah, and it was on 50,. It was on 49th Street and 8th Avenue. Yeah, 48th or 49th.
Speaker 3:Now, did this place preced um?
Speaker 2:paradise, garage correct um yes, by a few years.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, cool years just for context yeah, and it might have been that I don't know, I can't. Honestly I can't be 100 sure that's where we went, but we, yeah and and no, I mean I I think he wanted this, I think more than anything else a run had, didn't know that I could really dance. I mean he probably thought, I think when he was talking about loosening up, he thought I was kind of like this stiff. Well, he thought I was a stereotypical British person who was very kind of controlled and a little bit. Yeah, there's another uptight. We just said A little uptight and I, of course that might have been the demeanor I was presenting, but it really was not who I was so tell me something.
Speaker 3:When the beat hit you then and you were on the dance floor oh man, game over you know, come on now.
Speaker 2:You know when these tunes that we're playing now oh yes, now I probably wasn't as adept as I became. Okay, but don't put listen. I have been known to have people stop in their tracks when they saw me on the down floor. They're like, oh no, he didn't. Can I go fast forward millions of years to tell you that one of the most famous moments, one of the most precious moments of my whole life, do it, do it Ever, ever, ever was the dear Miss Aretha. As I said, mentioned Aretha before she came to Los Angeles for first time in many years. In the nine. It would have been the I think it would be the late night. No, it would be the early 2000s.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:She got the bus because she didn't fly anymore, came out to LA and we could look up the exact year and she did a bus Like a greyhound. No, her own coach.
Speaker 3:Oh, she had staff Hello.
Speaker 2:You didn't think Aretha Franklin got a greyhound in the 20s. Hello, it was called the Queen of Soul Bus.
Speaker 3:Are you serious? Yes, the Queen of Soul bus.
Speaker 2:Yes, excellent, it had a bed in it and the kitchens and everything I mean, you know. Because she didn't fly, which is well known, she stopped. She used to fly, she stopped. She used to fly to England. She came to England, all kinds of things, and she stopped flying in 1983 because she had a very bad experience of a flight in a small plane that went upside down in a storm and that was enough she couldn't do that I'd say yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it'd be enough for anyone, I think. Anyway, so she comes out to LA and I went to the show and then she invited me and the person I went, with my friend Nick, we went to the private after party Of Aretha's private after party. She had an after party. After she did the show. She had a party at a Beverly Hills hotel that was only for invited guests. It wasn't for record companies and all that people, it was just invited guests. And I was one of the invited guests. Yes, yes, yes, yes, me and Mr Rico. We really were. We had spent many years conversations together over the years and anyway, and she had her own band not her band, but she had a band of musicians there. They had some DJ and everything. And two things I want to tell I'm just going to get into the dancing part, because the other part is for another time to talk to you about the conversation I had with her one-on-one, which is one of the most precious.
Speaker 3:Oh, you've got to tell us that man Now. Well, finish the boogie first, yeah.
Speaker 2:So anyway, so here we are and the music's on, and so I think you know I'm not going to sit there. I am not going to sit there when the music's on like that. I am not when the rhythm hits and the boogie hits, you've got to go with it, man. Rhythm hits and the boogie hits, you've got to go with it, man. So I went to turn around to Nick. Now you have to know this is a private party, this is Aretha's party. But I was brave. I said, hey, nick, come on, let's boogie. Who's Nick? My friend Nick. That was with me as my guest at the party at Aretha. He was one of my good. He's still a good friend of mine, nick.
Speaker 3:Nice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, we were friends. I mean not any other friends but we were friends. So here we are, Nick and I at the party. They're playing something, and I said come on, Nick, let's do this, let's dance, yeah, let's dance. And Aretha's band members were there and her cousin Brenda and the background, and they were gone, now gone, and Aretha Franklin came out. She was watching and she came out onto the dance floor too and she oh no, no, she said to me all right, David, I see you. She said you're cutting off in here.
Speaker 3:You're cutting off in here. You're cutting the rug. You're cutting the rug, sorry, guys. So cutting the rug is when you're tearing up the dance floor or somebody's front I had moves.
Speaker 2:I had moves, all right, I didn't just. And then sometimes nick stopped dance a little bit, I danced by myself. I don't care, because I could. I could listen all right don't, don't, don't, put on certain tunes, even at this late stage still kick it, all right're still kicking, all right good, yes, yes, good for you. If they're not putting anything on now, while we're in the studio, I might jump up.
Speaker 3:Okay, steady on, steady on, Because the headphones can't. You'll mash up the lead and everything like that. Just like, yeah, bite-sized chunks.
Speaker 2:Anyway, so that's it. So, yes, going back to 1975, ron Simmons found out that he had an illusory perception of British people. Yes, or we should say, british people with a lighter shade of pale.
Speaker 3:White folk.
Speaker 2:Lighter shade of pale people, lightly shaded pale people, in spite of my dashiki in my hair. He wasn't quite sure until he took me to the, took me to that club and I danced. He said, oh, I wasn't tearing up quite so much then as I would be later in years because over time I got to know, I got to find my real rhythm so tell me, if you can, what was this conversation you had with Aretha then?
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, I mean it was a very interesting thing. I mean, you know, as I said, I'd done many interviews with her over time and she really developed more of a personal rapport.
Speaker 3:Nice.
Speaker 2:And um, At some point early on in the party, before I was cutting up, she was sitting by herself for a moment, which was her party, but she was sitting at the table by herself for a moment. I thought I'm going to take this opportunity to go over and speak to her. So I went and sat down and I eyeballed her. I looked her straight in the eyes, not straight in the eyes.
Speaker 2:I looked her genuine conversation. I looked into her eyes, not like that's the wrong way of saying it, I just looked at her and said you know, I want to say something I want to tell you. I want to thank you so much for all the interviews you've given me the opportunity to do with you. I say you have been um, in many ways, the person who gave me the opened the doors for me to be able to do my first cover story for blues and soul in 1970, do my first story for, uh, usa Today in America, my first billboard story. I mean these are all because of Aretha and her willingness to speak with me, and she wasn't known as someone who would do interviews with everybody. In fact she was.
Speaker 2:It was really very challenging for most journalists to get an interview with her because she had a distrust of journalists from things that had happened to her in the past when she first began becoming popular. So anyway, so I thanked her. I said I just really want to thank you so much and she started to tear up a little bit. You see, a lot of people don't understand when you're in front of millions of people, thousands of people at a time. That's a different experience of being one-on-one with someone.
Speaker 3:Being famous can be lonely as well in some cases.
Speaker 2:Not so much that I think she just wasn't used to anyone. I mean, fans would comment on how much they made a difference for her there's nothing wrong with that but someone who she knew was really acknowledging her and I said I really want to acknowledge you Really, I really want to thank you and she started. I could see she got a little misty-eyed.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And they said well, thank you, david. And she said I want to thank you because you really thank you for all the interviews you've done with me and all the things you've done to be a part of my career. Wow, and so that was it. So it was a moment. It was very precious to me, very precious. I still can see it, that's great.
Speaker 3:Well, let's move to our next tune. Which is, according to my record, sir, yes, sir, that's the way of the world, but Earth.
Speaker 2:Wind and Fire. Is that correct?
Speaker 1:Yes, correct. Shall we drop it? Yeah, yes, correct. Should we drop it? Thank you, love desire. Take you higher and higher To the world. You belong Hearts of fire. Create love, desire Higher and higher To your place On the throne. We come together On this special day. Sing our message Loud and clear. We come together on a special day. Sing our message loud and clear. Looking back, we've touched on several days Future, past. They disappear. You will find Peace above, yeah, when you look way down In your heart and soul. Don't hesitate, cause the worst is gone. Stay young at heart, cause you'll never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never. That's the way. That's the way of the world and the way of the world. And you'll grow Childish boy. You're not a part of that and you're born Child of God, the Lord of all, the King of the world. This is what I'm going for. Yeah, this evening Y'all Serve.
Speaker 3:So that's the way of the World, but Earth With no Fire. That's a tune and a half. Yes, it is Talk to me about that tune, man, why were you feeling that one?
Speaker 2:Well, as part of my being in New York and getting myself kind of grounded in being there, going to the party, the press parties, the concerts and so forth, one of the most amazing experiences of my life was going to see Earth, wind, fire at Madison Square Garden, and this is a time when that's the way of the world, which is really their big breakthrough album into the mainstream success in America. That was just taken off, and sitting in Madison Square Garden with all of these lighters, everyone lighting up the whole, and Madison Square Garden is a big place. I mean massive, these lighters, everyone lighting up the whole, and man's gone to big place. I mean massive. And then, um, this is a time when they knew we're doing these different, uh, things on the stage. It wasn't just a show where, uh, I think um for dean was levitating. Yeah, I mean, you know, the drop, the drum set, what I mean. It's all kind of these and it was. It was like it was a spectacle.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was probably theatrics as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah along with the music. So that concert just was an incredible experience for me, and let me know that this is really where I want to be. This is where I wanted to be, living in New York and living in America.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm just checking, Mike, before I get myself in any trouble. That Breakfoot album. What hits did that have on it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean obviously the title track was one, but the other songs in there were Reasons. What else is on that? I swear to the world.
Speaker 3:I'm thinking oh here you go, shining Star. Yes, yes, reasons See the Light, that's right, nice, nice, nice. Oh, here you go, shining Star. Yes, reasons See the Lights. Yeah, nice, nice, nice.
Speaker 2:But it was. It was really like I think for many people it was the album, because it was really the whole concept of it. And then the song I loved on there. I love the song called All About Love, which has a lot of speaking in it Maurice Maurice White speaking and and it's just, it's almost like he's preaching and I love that man. He's really a great one of the things I used to love in that. So he says have mercy.
Speaker 3:You go to church. I remember in the last podcast you said that you went to LA because you were going to take a flight back with them and you interviewed them on the plane. Is that right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, but that was after that happened, after I saw them at madison square garden right yeah, yeah, I mean, they were just like touring stadiums and they were really and, of course, some of the shows with ramsay lewis yeah, was a special guest because he had had this recording called sun goddess yeah, which maurice white?
Speaker 3:seven inch of that?
Speaker 2:yeah, of course had produced, and in fact I remember seeing them also in another show, pop and Madison Square Garden, within the same time period at a place called Nassau Coliseum.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Again, that was Is that out in Long Island.
Speaker 2:Yes, and it was yes, exactly that one did not have that had Ramsey Lewis on it. The earthy Madison Square Garden was not with Ramsey.
Speaker 3:Lewis, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:But yeah, man, it was, and I remember. The funny thing is just a little quick story to show you what happens, part of the adventures. So we're going out to Nassau Coliseum as a record company. Cbs Records had gotten a little coach to take all the press out to the show.
Speaker 2:Cbs Records had gotten a little coach to take all the press out to the show and it's about an hour hour and a half outside of New York and we were probably about 30 minutes away from the venue and the bus broke down and the bus driver was frantically trying to get a replacement bus for all these grumpy press people. Of course I, all these grumpy press people Of course I wasn't grumpy. Naturally, I was a beacon of sunshine at night. Howsoever.
Speaker 3:You weren't a diva at all, were you?
Speaker 2:I've never been a diva. Let me write that down. Song title poem tune whatever.
Speaker 2:Well, I have moments. I have moments of diva. We have, but I've never been one perfect and, trust me, I know the difference anyway. So they said, well, we still have to see the show. Yeah, the cbs published. They're all going crazy what we're gonna do, blah, blah. So we had to walk. We literally had to walk through martin. All the the mucky field was not we had to walk through all the mucky field. We had to walk through mud and shit oh sorry, mud, excuse me expletive.
Speaker 3:Aggregates.
Speaker 2:We had to sleep through. We had to sleep. Let me start that again. We had to walk through the mud and stuff to get to the Nassau Coliseum because they couldn't get a bus to replace the one that broke down. And if you want to see some grumpy press people, the bus broke down. Blah, blah, blah. And then we see Ramsey Lewis and Earth, Wind, Fire and All Is Forgotten and.
Speaker 2:All Is Forgiven. Good show. Oh man, you know, come on now. Yes, yes, it was absolutely worth it. I know, come on now. Yes, yes, it was absolutely worth it. I mean they're just for me. Really, those Earth, wind, fire shows were the best I ever saw.
Speaker 3:They're proper musicians, aren't they?
Speaker 2:Musicianship and just the way they put those shows together so that it wasn't just music. Just the way they put those shows together so that it wasn't just music. The magic tricks and the disappear they would disappear, they would be in these kind of like what were they called?
Speaker 3:Cabins, yeah, or mummy cases.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you saw them go in and they weren't there, and then they'd come in from the other part of the stadium mean come on like what? What I mean? Of course it was all you know designed that way, but just brilliant, best value for money ever.
Speaker 3:Those were the fire shows. Yes, back in the day I remember I saw something youtube where things like um boogie wonderland, they're tuning the timpanis. Everything is spot on in terms of musicality.
Speaker 2:Absolutely yeah, maurice, playing the kalimba.
Speaker 3:I mean the whole thing.
Speaker 2:It's just magic, man, just magic, magic Are they one of your favorites. Absolutely Groups, ever Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 3:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:In fact if anyone asked me who's my favorite group, I would have to say South Wind and Fire.
Speaker 3:I'm going to put you on the spot now. Number one who's your favourite group?
Speaker 2:South Wind and Fire.
Speaker 3:Who's your favourite female vocalist?
Speaker 2:Aretha Franklin.
Speaker 3:Who's your favourite female group?
Speaker 2:Under Pressure, guys Under Pressure, Love it Favourite favourite, it's all right. I don't have one.
Speaker 3:Come on, just throw something out there.
Speaker 2:The Emotions.
Speaker 3:Okay, who's your favourite male solo artist?
Speaker 2:Ah, whoa Favourite male?
Speaker 3:probably Peeble Bryson no, no no, no, hello Luther Vandross hello and favourite producer, tom Bell producer. Tom Bell, and Tom Bell and Maurice White wow both, and your favourite person not favourite person, but me, oh sorry yeah your favourite person, who you've interviewed, that you've met in person, the person you had the most fun with, or that you were a wiser Aretha. Yeah, that's nice, that's nice and last one for you what's your favourite song of all time?
Speaker 2:Walk On by wow, nice one.
Speaker 3:See, it wasn't that bad.
Speaker 2:No see, I'll probably go back and revise some of it later no, we're not going to hold you to them but it's just nice to know, yeah, and what's good about that?
Speaker 3:people who haven't been introduced to soul music or from that era can start off from those places and branch out and you didn't ask me which is an interesting thing who's my favorite songwriter oh okay, oh yeah, I did ask you your favorite producer was who's your favorite songwriter? Stevie wonder wow, let's get you to face the music, and this one's by the Dynamic Superiors. Yes, that's what this one's about.
Speaker 2:Yes, dynamic Superiors. Well, here I am in New York. I said doing interviews with everybody. Yeah, and one of the interviews I was asked to do was with the Dynamic Superiors, a group from based in Washington DC who had the distinction of having a very, at that time, very out gay lead singer. Wow which is almost unheard of. You've got to remember this is a black group, this is not like. Yeah, what year is this? 1975.
Speaker 3:So is this pre or during Sylvester time?
Speaker 2:Pre, wow, pre and the Dynamic Superiors were on Motown.
Speaker 3:Yep.
Speaker 2:And they had the first album they did was produced by Nick Ashford and Valerie Simpson, yep, and they had a big hit on there called Shoo Shoo Shine. Yeah, but that wasn't the one that I. That's one of the songs on the main songs on there. But the one I loved was a song called Face the Music. But that was mad and so I met. Here's the story, a real quick story. So I was assigned to assignment to interview Dynamic Superiors and we did it. We did the interview in my in my apartment, studio apartment, when I was living in the Westerly building and I didn't have enough chairs. We did the interview in my apartment studio apartment when I was living in the Westerly building.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I didn't have enough chairs.
Speaker 2:There's five of them and I only had like three chairs, yeah, yeah, so two of them had to stand up.
Speaker 3:It was funny. Is it still handwritten or are you recording now?
Speaker 2:That's still handwritten Everything. I did not start recording interviews until very, very much later, and part of it was strategic.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:Because I discovered that many people, when they saw a tape recorder, would immediately clam up, clam up, yeah, they would not yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, because they were afraid that you know it's on tape.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah. The person didn't say it.
Speaker 2:So by taking notes, notes I was able to do that, and I could read my own handwriting back then. Not sure I can read it now. Yeah, same man, yeah, but yeah so. Dynamic Superiors man. So hard to face the music when you're you have to play it so I can remember the next line. So hard to face the music. So hard to face the music. Hard to face the music.
Speaker 1:When it ain't your song, when it ain't your song, when it ain't your song, so hard to face the music, so hard to face the music. Hard to face the music when it ain't your song. When it ain't your song, I can't dance. Can't dance, can't dance, scared to take a chance when you play that fucking beat, I just can't believe. Play something simple, baby. Play something blue. I can't wear your mask and your shoes. Simple, baby, play something blue. I can't wear your face like a shoe, but I'm sorry, baby.
Speaker 3:My dance is blue. So hard to face the music, so hard to face the music, hard to face the music. It's hard to face the music. It ain't your song, it ain't your song. That's Fasty Music by the Dynamic Spirits. Oh, I haven't heard that before.
Speaker 2:That is fierce, See, I keep bringing you this music man.
Speaker 3:You've been bringing the gravy boy. I must have dropped that in my sets. That's nice.
Speaker 2:Yes, come on now. Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 3:So I'm excited we're not excited, much are we no, no no but I was gonna say is that tom?
Speaker 2:yeah, I mean, the whole that album is is a classic it really is.
Speaker 2:And and it's just to show you how life works, man, it's an amazing thing to say to you about this. When I started, um, to do the reissues I do in britain through my soul music records label, plug, plug, yeah, yeah. And so, working with cherry red, which is the label, who, the company that really is responsible for doing all the work on having these albums reissued? You know, my label is codes through cherry red and what the very the second, I think, was the second release, second or third release that we had on Soul Music Records was combining the first two albums by the Dynamic Superiors yeah, the self-titled Dynamic Superiors and the second album, which is called Pure Pleasure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the Pure Pleasure album has a picture of you should just see the picture, because it's got painted fingernails, of course, I think, of the lead singer in the top. Well, you can go find the cover. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the point being, those are great albums and that was the start of the Soul Music Records reissue label, and it did because they'd never been out before, the records had never been out on CD, that kind of we could say. That was like a marker to say yeah, we're here and Soul Music Records is here and we're going to give you, the people, what they want and we're still doing it now about that Soul Facing Music.
Speaker 3:You had that early disco beat there that fell to the floor so we had that. It's that early disco beat there. That falls to the floor that's right, the high hat, so we had that beat going on there. Is that all that preceded that love hangover? Yeah, yeah well there's other things.
Speaker 2:See, one thing is something you said there, because I was thinking that a lot of times people don't give credit to Motown for what they were doing back then start with. I mean, love Hangover is certainly the other one. I mean, if you actually, if I had to, name if you had to name one of my favorite groove, I mean dance records of all time. I mean, if that comes on, don't ask me to sit still, I can't. And I love. I think that recording is one of the best produced records of all time.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's good quality, you know really.
Speaker 2:So you've got Love for Hangover and you've also got people forget sometimes the Eddie Kendricks' Girl. You Need a.
Speaker 4:Change of Mind.
Speaker 2:People hold on. I think that's 1973. Yeah, so Motown. While people think of Motown a lot of times of the 60s, you know the Supremes, martha and Vandellas, marvin Gaye, mary Wells, temptations, four Tops All of those were the foundation for Motown. But I have to say that they really did move into being some of the most progressive artists in production for the era that we call disco. I mean, you know, I mean, just right there, girl, you Need a Change of Mind. That was one of the tunes, by the way, when in New York clubs, when I first started going to clubs, if they put that on it was crazy Because it's about a seven or eight minute song.
Speaker 3:Was Carl Bean on Motown.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, yes, yes, Another pioneer. So here we've got this whole period of time of Motown as a not just a hit, you know, of course, with Stevie and Marvin and all that who's still there recording, yeah, but also they were really like I think Motown's not given enough credit for its part in the dance music movement. And yes, carl Bean, I was born this way. Come on, that's like historic, yeah, really. So you got all that going on. So I love that stuff, man, I loved, I loved all the. Yeah, I mean, I could have done a whole, we could have done a whole show on on eddie kendrick's guy in a ross.
Speaker 3:You're all of those I mean he's inviting himself back, ladies and gentlemen, and I like it well you know I already invite myself back till.
Speaker 2:We get to part three, 9, 10 so you get sick of, they won't ever get sick of us.
Speaker 3:Carbine. That's one of my favourite songs ever is it it's a gay anthem. Yeah, the strings. It's really emotional. That just got to me and I heard it loads of times before, but a significant feeling towards it, towards me, impact on me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, Carl.
Speaker 3:Born this way, Carl being people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know the thing is this really also, I find I love it when you see how everything fits together in a sense.
Speaker 3:So I mean, did that song have an effect on you at the time it came out?
Speaker 2:Well, no, because I was never out.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but it's how you felt about yourself. Well, no, because I was never out. Yeah, but it sounds like how you felt about yourself.
Speaker 2:Well, yes, yes, and also to say that he wasn't the first person to record it. It was recorded by another guy before him called Valentino and it was a tiny. It was a smaller hit on a little label called I don't know how they pronounce it the label was G-A-I-E-E Records.
Speaker 3:G-A-I-E-E G-A-I-E-E Records.
Speaker 2:G-A-I-E-E G-A-I-E-E Gay Records.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 2:I suppose that was the label.
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:And it was by Valentino and I did an interview with Valentino for that first version of it, but it wasn't a big, big, big hit with Valentino.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then along comes Carl Bean and does it and he recorded in Philadelphia, by the way, with all those MFSB people, the strings, everything on there. So Carl has a hit with it and he was the first openly gay solo artist on Motown, because I mentioned Dynamics, this guy was in the group. Anyway, in the early 80s probably about 84, 85, 84, I think it was reissued in England and I at the time was writing for I was born, so it was reissued in England because it came out in 77 and it was reissued in England and I believe I was writing for. I was either writing for Blues and Soul or it might have, and I believe I was writing for Blues and Soul or it might have been a term.
Speaker 2:I was writing for another magazine called Street Scene and I did an article on Carl Bean. I found him. I didn't know where he was. He was in LA and he had started an outreach called the Minority AIDS Project, right as part of a church he had also started. I think the church was an outreach of the project, whatever which way round it was, and the church was called Unity Fellowship Church and it was a non-denominational church, as much as it wasn't like… it was free, it wasn't Baptist or it wasn't… Non-denomination.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and he was the preacher, and Carl and I, I mean he was… I mean, so many things came out of that because he did this. He used to do these benefit concerts called Coming Home for Friends with Dion. Whitney Houston, all these people used to come to perform at these concerts. Didn't know that? Yes, whitney Houston, all these people used to come to perform at these concerts.
Speaker 2:Didn't know that. Yes, and guess who was part of the choir singing on those Coming Home for Friends events? Yes, yes, it was me, amongst the many other choir members, of course, but that, at some point, is a part of my history that I really want to talk about, because it was a very important part of my history and his history, and Carl was just such an outstanding pioneer he really was, and thankfully he passed away, I think a couple of years ago now.
Speaker 2:But thankfully he's been remembered in as much as the. There's a street in in in los angeles named after him, right, which is great and he's still. You know, for those who've known the contributions made, he was just an outstanding, outstanding pioneer. And for those who may not know but can kind of figure it out, lady gaga, yes, born this way, right was inspired by carl beans. I was born this way and she I don't know if she met him, but she certainly. She has acknowledged finally that that was the inspiration for her.
Speaker 2:Born this way wow there you go see man. You never know how is that going to turn out, don't you?
Speaker 3:that's good, so we go. So look there we go again. End of the show again, but our last song. I know you love the Sunshine a lot because you commute between here and LA, I did, yes, I have you do, I do, I do. This song has always been big for me. Now, this song.
Speaker 2:Why.
Speaker 3:Can you tell? Me why it's been big for me Now this song why they tell me why it's been big for you. I might do that. I think, yeah, come on now. This song's been so when the rare groove genre came out. So, people, there's a genre called rare groove that could be like funky B-sides of songs. There could be album tracks that people have picked out.
Speaker 2:Yes yes yes.
Speaker 3:Now what fell into those things? Because Roy Ayers was big. But he also fell into the rare groove which brought him out again. It has a resurgence in the 80s, 70s and 80s, and I always loved Roy Ayers anyway. But when this song came out it was like hypnotic. The way it was recorded, the way it is how the songs, the strings, were recorded. The song sounds warm, it sounds like summer, summer, even if in the bleakest of midwinter, um, and it always puts a smile on my face. It's very simple, it's hypnotic and you can just chill and you can sleep with it, you can eat with it, you can just do so many things with it and it just makes me smile, it just makes me warm up. You know, um, you can do lots of things with it. David, I can bring your eyebrows back down to sea level, thank you very much so I best go up.
Speaker 3:You can't bring it um and roy is just amazing, and this one is so clever but simple, but inspirational and lovely, and it's liked by millions and multi generations. So that's what that song does for me. How about you?
Speaker 2:well, for me that song embodies the time that I was in that first year in New York and of course, it was coming out in the summer. Yeah, so it was just really.
Speaker 2:And that first summer in new york man, it was hot yeah man, new york summers man central park washington square I mean, come on, it was just like it wasn't like a london summer and it just the freedom and the kind of a sense of it was just yeah, it captivated the whole mood and how I felt, and so whenever I hear that song, I go right back to those first months in New York. Yeah, I'm discovering life. It's opening up whole. Yeah, I'm going to, as I mentioned to you before about going to the church and discovering what that was Just a whole my life was not that year 1975, was not like any other year in my life, and so Everybody Loves the Sunshine really captured how I felt and just the kind of I'm going to get this lyric wrong Bees and things and flowers.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, that's it Well you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, bees and things and flowers, man, I mean yeah.
Speaker 2:And I even I know you're about to play it. It's cool, it's just so like it's my 1975.
Speaker 3:Listen, my first summer in New York it was 1987 or 1988 Alright In Brooklyn, and I remember going to Prospect Park yes, prospect Park.
Speaker 3:Yeah, see what I'm saying Brooklyn Parkway, all of that, easton Parkway, easton Parkway exactly Easton Parkway, kings Highway, big up to everybody in Flatbush, I mean, I met my extended family. They were all welcoming and I became 18. I became an adult then and, it's like you know, became an adult there in New York, being a gay man, even though I wasn't practicing it at that point. But it's just, it was just a version, it's just a landmark, and New York songs are brutal, but they're amazing at the same time in terms of heat, intensity and humidity. But this song will just encapsulate that. So before we play that, look again. David, thank you for your stories, your facts, your knowledge, your inspiration and, yes, it will be probably episode 9, 10, 11 going on in the future. But listen, we're finding it really, really interesting.
Speaker 2:Thanks for your time again, and I will invite you back.
Speaker 3:I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:Thank you, sir, don't apologize.
Speaker 3:I don't mean that, just send me a check. Thank you very much and I'll speak to you soon. All right now.
Speaker 4:My life, my life, my life, my life In the sunshine. Everybody loves the sunshine, sunshine, sunshine, sunshine everybody loves the sunshine, sunshine. Folks get down in the sunshine, sunshine Folks get brown in the sunshine Just Bees and Things and Flowers Just Bees and Things. And Flowers Just Bees and Things and Flowers Just Bees and Things. And flowers Just these and things and flowers. My life, my life, my life, my life and the sunshine Everybody loves the sunshine, everybody loves the sunshine, sunshine, everybody loves the sunshine, sunshine, sunshine Folks get down in the sunshine, Sunshine Folks get down in the sunshine. Feel what I feel when I feel what I feel when I'm feeling in the sunshine. Feel what I feel when I feel, what I feel when I'm feeling in the sunshine. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Do what I do when I do what I do when I'm doing In the sunshine. Do what I do when I do what I do when I'm doing In the sunshine.
Speaker 1:In the sunshine Sunshine.