How To Let Go to Thrive in Business with Lindsey Epperly, CEO of Jetset World Travel

Dive into resilience and reinvention with Lindsey Epperly, CEO of Jetset World Travel, and host of the Who Made You The Boss podcast!

Lindsey and I share our stories of navigating crisis, embracing transformation and the power of community support.

We help you gain insights into leadership in a virtual world and discover the magic of unique partnerships.

Join us as we unlock the secrets to thriving amidst uncertainty!

Enjoy!

Listen and learn from interviews on the Who Made You The Boss? podcast. Featuring useful tips on fighting burnout, tackling imposter syndrome, and up-leveling today's leaders in the workplace.

https://www.lindseyepperly.com/who-made-you-the-boss

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:09

Welcome to Tailoring Talk. I'm Roberto Rivello, bespoke tailor and weaver of superpowers. I prepare my clients and listeners to win. We'll meet self-starters and creators, dive into their journeys and uncover valuable lessons to help you be the very best you can be. Please help the show to grow and help more people by hitting subscribe and giving us a rating. Today's guest is the CEO of Jet Set World Travel, which she scaled from a one-person operation into a team of over 70 dedicated members, recognized on the Inc 5000 list of fastest growing companies. She got the MBA she never wanted by navigating her industry's greatest crisis while expecting her first child. Also the host of the who Made you the Boss podcast, she's dedicated to leveraging the illusion of control and teaching others how to turn obstacles into opportunities. Tailoring Talkers, please welcome Lindsay Epley to the show. Lindsay, how are you?

Speaker 2: 1:08

I'm great, Roberto. Thanks for having me on.

Speaker 1: 1:11

Thank you, sorry, thank you, yeah, no, thank you, you're welcome. Is what I meant to say? Crazy, no, thank you. No, but thank you, but thank you, no, genuinely thank you, because you are Wonder Woman, supergirl, like all rolled into one. You, because you are Wonder Woman, supergirl, like all rolled into one. Because you're running business, you've got a busy household, you've got your husband to manage as well if he's anything like me, then you've got a job on your hands, because, god knows, my wife does, and I don't know how you fit it all in. But you master of leveraging the illusion of self-control or control, which is something I really want to get into, because that's such a. It seems like a contradictory phrase to me.

Speaker 2: 1:53

Yeah yeah it is and. I think that's why I tried to spin it in that way. But thank you for the compliments. It means a lot coming from the weaver of superpowers. I loved that intro to the show.

Speaker 1: 2:03

Thank, I'm trying different things out that was a good one yeah, that one I think I think I had. Uh, I weave superpowers into every stitch at some point, which seemed to.

Speaker 2: 2:14

Yeah, people like that one yes, yes, I can see that well. Given what you do on the podcast, it makes a lot of sense yeah, exactly, weave conversations and so on.

Speaker 1: 2:23

Yeah, let's get to a weave in here. So you're calling him from Atlanta.

Speaker 2: 2:27

Georgia.

Speaker 1: 2:29

I've got a few friends out there.

Speaker 2: 2:31

You do.

Speaker 1: 2:32

Yeah, I've never been. I really need to get out there. I used to work for an American company and for some reason I found myself hanging out with the New Yorkers and a lot of people from the Atlanta and surrounding offices.

Speaker 2: 2:48

You know the South is known for being so friendly, so it makes sense that you would make a lot of Atlanta friends.

Speaker 1: 2:52

So I'll tell you, I'll tell you what it probably really was.

Speaker 2: 2:55

It's the accent. You love the Southern accent. You mean, yeah, southerners love your accent.

Speaker 1: 3:03

Yeah, yeah. So I know we're supposed to be talking about, you know, helping people to avoid burnout, teach them how to scale their businesses and all of that stuff. But you could come on here and be talking about dry cleaning or putting out the trash and I'd quite happily listen to you for an hour.

Speaker 2: 3:19

That's hysterical. That's hysterical Because I've been told from other Americans that I don't have a very strong Southern accent, so I don't want to disappoint you, but maybe I'll throw in a y'all on occasion just to live up to the hype it's there, though it is there, so yeah, anyway, sorry'm guessing your industry's greatest crisis was what happened during the C word. Yes, just a few short years ago, right that little pandemic thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was not a lot of fun to be running a travel agency with my husband as my business partner.

Speaker 2: 4:01

All eggs in one basket when the pandemic hit. Yeah, so when we talk about the illusion of control, I think this was my greatest boss, essentially in teaching me how to let go of it, because prior to that, I remember actually like October of 2019, having a really great conversation with my mentor who said hey, lindsay, listen, the tighter you cling, the slower you're going to grow. And at the time I thought, oh, that's really great advice. Thanks, I'll just kind of like pry my death grip off a little bit. Right, you know, as the founder of this company that had been the solo practitioner for so long and then started scaling it like, as you probably know, having been, you know, front lines when it comes to serving and the service business, that's a really hard transition to make because the business is your baby.

Speaker 2: 4:47

The practice is also something you're so good at, and so moving yourself out of that lead practitioner and into a leadership role where there's not as much instant gratification right, you don't have the cha-ching of a sale that gives you kind of that high and you're just working kind of more in an amorphous role. That is big picture. That's not quite as gratifying. So, all of that high and you're just working kind of more in a like amorphous role. That is big picture. That's not quite as gratifying. So all of that to say I was clinging very tightly to control and there's nothing like a world pandemic leveling your business to really pry your hands off of it. And then the insane thing through that was we quadrupled. We actually managed to leverage an acquisition opportunity. We then wound up on the Inc 5000 list. We've grown even more since then. All of these amazing goals that I thought would take us 10 plus years, you know, happened in a matter of 18 months.

Speaker 1: 5:34

Yeah, wow, yeah, I mean same for us. I mean we literally were shut down straight away. You know, I remember clients in the lead up to it saying I'm really sorry, I can't see you next week because we're doing a. It was like a work from home emergency test or I can't remember what it was. There was some phrase that everybody was using, and you know, like a, like a resiliency test or something, which meant they were closing the office for the day and sending everybody to work from home to see if it would work, because I guess they knew this thing was coming.

Speaker 1: 6:10

And I'm one of those people that tries to live my life without watching the news, because I just don't like being depressed all the time. And that's all the right, all the. I mean, that's all. The news is right, especially with things. I don't want to be insensitive, because there are things going on in the world so you have to be aware of them, but I try not to let them you.

Speaker 1: 6:29

It's very easy for them to take a lot of the energy that you need just to live your life as it is anyway right. Do you know what I mean? Without kind of giving any energy away unnecessarily to stuff that is really beyond your control. Um, so, um, so yeah, that happened. And then all of a sudden we were put into lockdown. My business is shut completely, I can't serve anybody. And then I've got some clients saying to me hey, you're not going to be needed anymore because no one's going to buy suits ever again. Um and uh, and that was that. So you know what do you do? You kind of either sit there and wallow in it right and feel sorry for yourself, or you look around and you think, what can I do? Yeah, yeah, and we came out stronger.

Speaker 2: 7:14

So same, because you looked around and you decided what can I do? And a lot of your competition probably sat and wallowed for longer, and so you got a bit of a head start. It was at least how our experience was. It was looking out at the landscape and seeing oof people are shutting their doors and choosing to turn off their lights. And what if, instead, we decided to shine brighter during this time? It'll cost us more, both emotionally and financially, but if we do this, we think we can come out stronger, and those are the decisions we made.

Speaker 1: 7:43

Yeah, because I guess, similar to me initially, your reaction is people aren't flying, people aren't traveling.

Speaker 2: 7:51

Planes are literally grounded.

Speaker 1: 7:53

Planes are literally grounded. There are countries that literally shut their doors, like Australia and so on.

Speaker 2: 7:58

It's like yeah, borders are completely closed.

Speaker 1: 8:00

No one's going in or out. For me, it's like nobody's wearing suits. Nobody needs no one's going in or out. For me, it's like nobody's wearing suits. Nobody needs to get anything made. They're all going to be at home working on zoom calls in their gym jams and pajamas and jogging bottoms and whatever crap people wear and still wear these days, um, but but then you kind of get yourself some breathing space and you must have had to have done that. You must have had to have must have had to have done that. You must have had to have, um, really wrenched yourself away from the business, taking your hands off the steering wheel, and then just kind of gone and done something else with your other. Well, I mean, you were pregnant at the time, right?

Speaker 2: 8:38

yeah, yeah okay so you had that to deal with it's just like a ticking time bomb of knowing that I have to bring a baby into this whole scenario too.

Speaker 1: 8:48

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 8:48

Yes, it was. It was a lot. Well, and we, roberto, we had a home under contract and we had to make the very painful decision of do we keep our business or do we keep our home? And so we, you know, actively, every day we're making tough calls on what this looks like and how. What's our run rate now that we have that money to put toward the business, how long can we survive? And yeah, so, yes, I wrenched myself away in many ways because my husband recognized hey, this is actually going to be very unhealthy on the pregnancy.

Speaker 2: 9:17

If you are, you know, the complete leader here, you're the sole leader here and we've got that to worry about. Leader here, if you're the sole leader here, and we've got that to worry about. So he really stepped up during this time too and said I'm going to oversee all of the cancellations and the postponements and the team at the time and you sit in the role that you want to be in. And for me that was a leadership role. I had been sitting as the CEO. It was a 10-person operation at the time and now we're close to 80, I think over 80.

Speaker 2: 9:44

And so I got to kind of try on an actual leadership hat right, like I'd always been a leader. I'd always stepped into that. But I think, focusing on how can I inspire others, how can I move and motivate which is something I feel very drawn toward and something I've been able to do through business and through my words and writing and now I have a podcast because of that skill but all of those skills were really refined during the pandemic To your point you have to kind of shift your focus or else you'll drive yourself a little crazy because you can't do what you love doing, which for me, was planning travel.

Speaker 1: 10:14

Yeah, exactly, I mean, I guess, how did you? How did you flip the switch? Because for me it was like one day. So I went and did food deliveries because I have a. I have a motorbike, scooter, vespa, whatever you want to call it and I was like, okay, well, I need to protect the cash that's in the business and the cash that's in our savings and kind of make that last as long as possible. And I think we went into lockdown in March and and we worked out that we would be dry financially by August. That's the longest that we could survive, assuming no sales, right. So I was like, okay, I need to bring some income in. So the first thing I did was like take food jobs with Uber and Deliveroo and I was just delivering.

Speaker 1: 10:58

The irony here, lindsay, is that when I was younger and I get clients that had asked me to pick items of clothing up from their offices for repairs and stuff, and I'd turn around to them and say I'm not a pizza delivery boy, I literally became a pizza delivery boy. Um, so karma, um, but so. But that gave me the kind of thinking space and as I looked around I was like I don't think this is going to last forever. It's. One of my clients actually told me. He said this is a speed bump. Um, in the grand scheme of things, it, this is going to last forever. It's. One of my clients actually told me. He said this is a speed bump. In the grand scheme of things, it's not going to last forever. And also, I looked around and people weren't walking around naked Still wearing clothes, still wearing clothes.

Speaker 1: 11:38

Yeah, thank God Right. Well, lockdown one. Everybody got into shape because everyone bought pelotons yeah, and then lockdown two people kind of stabilized, and lockdown three. We all gave up on life, um, and my guy clients just put on so much weight it was crazy on average. So thank god they were still wearing some form of clothing, right anyway. So, so, yeah, so for me it was about knowing that this too shall pass yeah and at some point you need to be ready for when it comes back.

Speaker 1: 12:14

And now that I have talked at you while trying to ask a question, I think I know the answer to what you did is you. You stepped back, took yourself out of day-to-day sales kind of role, moved up above the business so you could get a real bird's eye. And then you started to get strategic to then get ready for the time that people were going to get back on planes and start flying around.

Speaker 2: 12:42

Exactly, and we, we use that time. But honestly, Roberto, I'm like you, I I'm. I am driven by the dollar and I have a thousand ideas before lunchtime. And so you know as soon as this happened and like profit is dried up, my first thing is like why don't I open a cookie studio?

Speaker 1: 12:57

Why don't I open a hat making studio? Why don't I, you know, like?

Speaker 2: 13:00

I'm like coming up with other businesses. And there was one morning that my husband we had a big whiteboard that just lived in our living room during this time. I hated that thing. But one morning he had written on the whiteboard no new ideas, right? Like, stick to what we know we're going to. If we're going to hold this out, we're going to hold it out. And. And so you're right.

Speaker 2: 13:17

My time then was spent okay, moving high level. But then also I understood a big problem in our industry was that there was a lack of leadership and because so many others were kind of shuttering their doors and going into hibernation, there were a lot of individuals that said I don't have anyone to talk to about this and I'm craving community and I'm craving someone else who feels the exact same thing that I do right now. And so we were keeping our lights on. We knew, same as you, we knew we have X amount of months that we can run with this and then, luckily, government assistance kicked in and helped us last longer. But stay humble. Did I ever want to be the type of person that was applied? Not type of person that came out very terrible. But I never imagined myself. To your point. You never imagined yourself as a delivery boy. I never imagined myself seeking financial aid and, like, I had always been upward and to the right in my business, and so it was a very big, you know, eye opener and perspective changer and understanding and now relating of like, oh, anything can happen to anyone anytime. And how do we? You know that gave me a lot of understanding, a lot of empathy. We, you know that gave me a lot of understanding, a lot of empathy.

Speaker 2: 14:24

During this time, we opened our doors to everyone in our travel advisor community. So it was not competition at the time, it was hey, even if you work for or you own a competing company, come be part of our conversations, because we see that there's a lack of this out there. So we created this kind of community and did that add bottom line dollars at that moment, no, no one could afford it because we're in the middle of, you know, the industry's greatest crisis. But that eventually created our opportunities down the line. It helped us grow organically.

Speaker 2: 14:49

So, so it was really being able to think strategically during that time, to your point and creating a program that others could benefit from. Um, which helps me too, because I wanted to give back in some way. I wanted to help and I also just felt so lonely myself right, like going through the motions of this really weird experience and then also being pregnant at the time. So I also had a mom's group of people that were in the industry you know really, really minute details, that we were all experiencing the same thing at the same time, and that was just wild.

Speaker 1: 15:20

Yeah, I think it's testament as well to the kind of American entrepreneurial spirit or whatever, I don't know.

Speaker 1: 15:28

But I mean that's one of the things I miss about living and working in your country. It's just how you're kind of able to do things like that and bring people together for a common cause. Over here, I tried to do things like that and bring people together for a common cause. Over here, I tried to do the same thing. So I tried to set up a round table, reached out to other tailors which is very unlike me, because the industry knows that I kind of generally don't hang out with everybody else um, and you know, I said, look, guys, we're in this together and let's we, you know, let's just meet regularly, just share ideas and so on, and just try and get, get all of us through it, because at the end of the day, yeah, we're competitors most of the time, but the world's big enough for all of us and we want to make sure we're all here afterwards.

Speaker 1: 16:12

No, no, nothing happened from it I'm just gonna wait until people start buying suits again and go back to the office and I was like, yeah, but if, but, if you do that, then you'll die. We don't know that that's going to happen, right.

Speaker 2: 16:27

Yeah, mental health, though, is I mean during that time, everyone had their you know individual experiences and what that did to them, and it's so interesting to me, now that the world has opened back up, that a lot of us have just chosen like let's just move on, let's not talk about it, and I think it's important to you know address a lot of the such a strange and crazy experience that we went through Like that.

Speaker 2: 16:53

For me, though, I process verbally, as you can probably tell, and with words and writing, and so I needed to like get it out of my system and process it in that way. My husband, on the other hand, is an internal processor, and he's like I don't want to talk about it ever again, like let's just move forward.

Speaker 1: 17:10

Yeah, exactly, I mean for me. I think it's you know. What I say to people is you might not want to talk about it, but hold it somewhere in your heart, just store it away. And the times that you get it back out and just think about it, even if it's for the briefest moment, is when you're having a bad day or when something happens, like one of my friends. She's a recruiter, she didn't. She didn't win a deal that she'd been working on and it really affected her that day. And I said to her you got through COVID dude.

Speaker 2: 17:42

Yes, you know, I actually take that perspective now too and it actually I found it has made me more of a risk taker, because we've been to the bottom and we've lost it all and we were able to become scrappy, become nimble. Our spreadsheet that we worked off of was Project Slim Fast, because it was all like how can we cut as many expenses as possible? So we've done it and we were able to survive. So to me that gives me a lot more confidence that like, let's take another risk. Let's do it because those risks are what helped us grow. That's why we acquired during the middle of the pandemic, yeah, and hence the MBA that you never wanted.

Speaker 2: 18:18

Never wanted it, we got it anyway.

Speaker 1: 18:23

Exactly that's it, and because we have been through it and we now have those scars, we may as well learn from the experience. Otherwise, what was it for Right?

Speaker 2: 18:31

Totally and I like passing that along to others. I have a heart for mentoring, especially other female founders and women in business, because I know what it feels like to show up and question your worth and have that imposter syndrome or also to tie your self worth to your success. And I don't think that's necessarily just for females. I think a lot of individuals and high achievers do that unknowingly and it takes like the rug being pulled out from under us to realize oh wow, who am I if I'm not succeeding? And you are still a human of value and worth. But it took a lot of work for me to get to that point.

Speaker 1: 19:10

Yeah, absolutely so. Let's talk about this leveraging the illusion of control, I think for me, because I'm so visual. So when you say illusion, I think magic. When you say control, I think literally holding onto something. And then I'm like, but if something's magic, how can you like physically hold onto it? Um, but, but I kind of think I know where you're coming from, but but why don't you give me the whole like what?

Speaker 2: 19:39

that's about, especially from a solopreneur point of view.

Speaker 2: 19:43

Yes, well, and and you know I'm like might as well be president of Control Freaks Anonymous. I am such a recovering perfectionist always, and I think I think a lot of individuals that create companies, that run companies, can relate to that, because that's how you got to that position to begin with. Right, like you have a certain amount of I want to do this on my own and independence, and what I mean by illusion of control is that so often we buy into because we've chosen this path, we are more in control. Right, because we've become the boss. That's why I named my podcast who Made you the Boss. Like you think you're more in control because you made yourself the boss. You're not, and a lot of times it takes an outside circumstance to remind us that, like, actually there's so much out of our hands. And when we acknowledge that this is what I mean by leveraging when we acknowledge that and when we actually plan and strategize around it, that's when we can really take off.

Speaker 2: 20:34

I mean, for me it took that gigantic lesson during the pandemic to. So when I think of control, I think of it coming out in a couple of ways here. Tangibly in my business, I started giving over more of the you know, delegating. I learned to delegate like let's put it in a very clear, simple term, it was delegation and that took a lot to learn. But from a mindset standpoint, I think that the way that I would try to control things would come out in that perfectionism. And it would come out in my attempt to when I was burning out. And I know you said you want to go down this path and talk about burnout, but when I was burning out I would just get tighter on things, right?

Speaker 2: 21:12

I would think, the tighter that I cling, the more control I have, and maybe I won't burn out anymore if I just start tightening up and getting into everyone else's business. And so a lot of that illusion of control is the mental hurdle.

Speaker 1: 21:26

Yeah, I think I've come to realize that illusion of control recently. So I always like putting myself up as an example and I'm also a method podcaster, so I will literally have an accident, have a mental breakdown, burn myself out or go through what I'm about to, just what I'm just about to tell you to benefit our audience and help my guests along as well. So my, I had a VA and it started off great and we've we've tried the whole VA PA thing before and it's always been difficult. It's never lasted more than a couple months because I am such a control freak and everything's got to be done the way that I want it done. And you know I'm I, I preach to everybody else 80 is better than 100, not done right? Um and um, and it's never worked out.

Speaker 1: 22:20

But with this one we went about 18 months and then all of a sudden, um, you know I take responsibility, um, because it was my responsibility to make sure that that person had all the things that they needed to do to fill their hours and so on. But then there was the. You know you have the angel and devil on your shoulders as an entrepreneur. I do anyway, and you know the devil's always there sort of saying to me you know she's goofing off, she's not doing. You know, look at what she's actually producing. That's not full-time work. You could do that yourself in like half an hour a day. So why are you paying that person? Just take it.

Speaker 1: 23:05

So all of this was going on and it festered for weeks and weeks and then eventually I had a conversation with her and then we just agreed to part ways and she took some responsibility as well. She said to be quite honest, you know I can't argue with anything that you're saying and you know, if you'll give me a chance I'll do better. But you know, it then felt really awkward and I was like, okay, well, you know, maybe it's not going to work out. And then she resigned. That was that. Fast forward. A month later I'm freaking, drowning.

Speaker 2: 23:38

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 23:38

Because the little things that you know, put to put to the side that you know, maybe you know there's some things that she shouldn't have been doing, whatever, but the little thing she was doing were making a huge difference the domino effect was enormous. Yeah, and I turned around to my wife yesterday and I said I didn't tell you. But I'm telling you now um, this brings us on to working with your spouse, right? Um, but I'm telling you now, I've booked a call with her for Saturday and we're going to have a conversation.

Speaker 1: 24:17

She's willing to come back um so we're going to work out how we're going to work together and do things differently to how we did it the first time around. But I said to Caroline I need her back, um, because otherwise, you know, it's like we would take. We were actually taking a step forward as an organization, as a business, and, uh, and we're, we're going, we're backpedaling. We're not just backpedaling fast, we're backpedaling rapidly and I need to stop it. So I need to get her back and we need to work it out and then start moving forward again.

Speaker 2: 24:49

That's really big of you to be able to admit the areas where you had faults, the areas where you can change, and what an amazing individual that's also willing to have that conversation. That's really exciting Because if you can work through that, then you guys can continue on that trajectory. Yeah, it's so hard. I mean, I get it.

Speaker 2: 25:10

I run a virtual company right Like a virtual company of 80 people, and so you can't constantly keep tabs on it, and I'd say majority of them are independent contractors, which is fantastic.

Speaker 2: 25:19

They're I'm not even technically the boss, right Like they are their own bosses on their own businesses, and we just kind of power the back office and help them with business acumen whenever they need help.

Speaker 2: 25:29

But for the team, the leadership team that we do work with, everyone's virtual, and it has been such a lesson for me right to learn what it means to trust when you delegate. And for me, one of the biggest I guess for listeners like maybe this is a good, tangible tip that I learned during this process was learning to delegate the what instead of the how, and I learned this from my husband, who's very strategic and can put this in good words for me to be able to understand it. You know, when I would just like micromanage everything and he's like you're just in everyone's business on the how, like you don't need to know how they're going to do it, because they're not going to do it the same way that you are, but as long as they achieve the what, the results that you've asked for, then that's what you need. It is tough when it's hourly, though, roberto. So I get it, because if you're saying, well, I'm going to pay you for 10 hours, but it only takes them five, that's a different conversation, of course.

Speaker 1: 26:20

I think I don't mind that. I don't mind if I've agreed right to bit that I don't mind that if someone gets their work done in less time, great it's. It's more the um and she'll never listen to this. So I'm not worried. But but it's it's more kind of that feeling that you, when someone's doing someone gets the the work done but then they don't come and say so. Like I was always the person.

Speaker 1: 26:48

When I was an employee, I would get there at six in the morning waiting for the owner to turn up to open the doors. In the end they gave me a freaking key and the alarm codes and everything. So I used to open up and lock up at night. And then I was the sort of person that if I completed tasks, I would then be like what else can I do? What else can I do? What else could I do? And if they were like we've got nothing else for you, just like go away. I would then go to another department that wasn't even my remit and I'd be like is there anything I can help you guys with? Like you know, I used to put my head around the account store. There was a girl in that. I really had the hots for um, but you know, that's, that's by the. And I'd be like can I help you, ladies, with anything, anything at all? And they're like are you crazy? What is it with this guy?

Speaker 1: 27:31

So, so, yeah, so it's very, very hard for me to separate how I would deal with things, yes, and and appreciate how other people do, and also realize that actually it's my responsibility. If I'm, if I'm not getting anything coming at me, I then need to actually take the responsibility and say to that person is everything okay? Have I given you enough? Why aren't you coming to me, don't you know? Don't feel like you can't come to me, etc. Etc. You know so. So, again, you know this situation it was. It was difficult to go back, but then it was easy at the same time, and that sounds very contradictory. But the situation it was it was difficult to go back, but then it was easy at the same time, and that sounds very contradictory. But the reason it was easy is because I took responsibility and I said to my wife I said this situation is not actually that person's fault, I'm the one that's meant to be leading. Yeah, this is a hundred percent fault. So the power, therefore, is within me to actually go fix it.

Speaker 2: 28:31

To email.

Speaker 1: 28:32

Hey, how you doing. I was just checking in just to see how you are. Do you have another role yet?

Speaker 2: 28:39

Yeah, yes, well, and being able to see that, and especially when you saw it from the negative side, right when all of those tasks wound up back on your agenda, I mean that's the kind of stuff that leads to burnout so easily. When you're just overwhelmed, can't get your head above water, you're so in the weeds of your business, and I mean that, for me, has been it's always been when I'm burning out, it's always been not just a symptom of overwork but a sign of where I need to start handing something off and I personally need to evolve right. Like it's not just that I need to stay in the same role and give away a few tasks, it's usually I need to bring someone to this role so I can take a different role, like that's almost always been my burnout experience.

Speaker 1: 29:22

Yeah, yeah, one of my recent guests she described described you two would get on really well actually, mariana. I should link you two up if you don't know her, she, she, um, she said her. Her kind of definition of burnout was that burnout is a result of sorry. The cause of burnout is the is the lack of balance between giving and receiving yeah, that's really powerful yeah, which, if you think about it, is the problem for most particularly service-based entrepreneurs.

Speaker 1: 30:01

We give so much and then we don't take the time either for ourselves or to look at what we're doing and think should we be bringing some help in to give ourselves the grace and space that we need to make sure that we can keep going?

Speaker 2: 30:21

Right, even from just the mirror, when I think about both being in a service-based business but also being in a leadership role, both of those wind up feeling pretty thankless at most points. And not that any job feels opposite, right, I think. Everyone starts feeling like undervalued or underappreciated, and so you do. You start getting a little bit more resentful, and I spoke to someone recently who's a burnout expert and she said that's one of the fastest ways you can realize that you're burning out is because resentment is starting to set in. And that happens when there's an imbalance, exactly like what you're talking about, when you were giving more than receiving.

Speaker 1: 30:55

Yeah, when you're in a situation, or you put yourself in a situation, where the emotions that are being generated are energy takers, not energy givers.

Speaker 2: 31:07

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 31:07

Right, because when you feel resentful, I mean you think about that for a second. If we both just sit there and just think to times when we are resentful, we get angry or annoyed about stuff, um, and how much energy that takes from us as well. It can be exhausting if it's going on for a period of time and then you think the opposite end. So think about those times when you've helped a customer or a client and they've been so happy, or you've spent your time on I don't know things that have just been making things better. It's, the energy transfer is completely different. The feeling is completely different. So it's, it's really for me. Now. I'm so focused on trying to be in tune with how I'm feeling at any point in time, with anything or anyone. I'm thinking is this is this energy transfer, or is it energy, energy generating?

Speaker 2: 32:04

That's an interesting perspective. That's an interesting perspective. So how do you I mean, do you keep a rolling list like it is just in your head, like how do you actually tally up when you feel like you are not winning, because it's?

Speaker 1: 32:19

not, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 32:20

Like when you feel like you're in the more balanced position, I guess.

Speaker 1: 32:24

I think, um, so again it's. It's really just trying to tune in inside to how I'm feeling, particularly here, because where we feel all the you know whether it's happiness, joy, love, anger, resentment and so on, it all seems to. For me personally, it all centers here in the chest. So for people listening that aren't looking to the video of this, I'm pointing at my kind of around the heart area right now. For some people it's the head, for some people it's other parts of their body. Any of my British listeners listening put those dirty minds away. So it's really trying to be in tune with when something's going on. Where am I feeling that and how am I feeling? Am I feeling that and how? How am I feeling? Am I feeling light and happy like I?

Speaker 1: 33:10

I went into town I don't normally see clients on Fridays because I have to run the business at some point and but I went in to see one of my long-standing clients because he's now semi-retired. Today was the only day he was going to be in town and when I walked away from that and during, I was happy. I was in my element. I felt like I was floating on a cloud. You know, it's like I got the best job in the world. I've looked after this person for such a long time. It's been so awesome to blah blah, blah, blah, blah, um.

Speaker 1: 33:39

And then someone called me earlier who I hope doesn't listen to this um to, to to see if I could work with him, and, as he described what he needs doing, I was recoiling and I was my. I wasn't listening to him at one point because my mind was searching through for ways to turn him down because he was making me feel uncomfortable and so so that's. I don't even know if I've answered your question, but that's what it is. For me, it's all about feeling. It's not even a rational decision, Like, is this going to make me money, or isn't it? I mean the guy on the call today that's going to make me money.

Speaker 2: 34:19

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 34:21

But it was generating negative feelings and making me feel apprehensive.

Speaker 2: 34:32

So I'm just like I don't care how much money this is going to make us. I don't want to do it. Yes, yeah, that did answer my question because it is a it's an intuition and a gut type of thing which I I can relate to a lot. I've made most of my business decisions based off of just an instinct. Um, I mean, I failed the only business class I ever took in college, right. So, like book smarts are not my thing, and so it's more of that like tapping into yeah, I've never thought to call it energy, but that's a good way to put it.

Speaker 1: 34:56

Yeah, sometimes I think it's good because we again we run at 100 miles an hour, like most of the time, we're making decisions super quick, we're reacting to things as well, and I think it's not a bad thing to consider just slowing down when something comes at you.

Speaker 2: 35:13

Yes.

Speaker 1: 35:14

Don't just catch it right, because the thing's on fire right Half the time. These balls come at us, they're all on fire, so you're juggling them and then you're just throwing them out, and sometimes you don't throw them at the right place and then you cause a bigger fire somewhere else, whereas if something's coming at you, if you can kind of have you guessed that I'm a very visual person, lindsay, if you can just be like do you remember the matrix?

Speaker 2: 35:40

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 35:40

Do you remember when Neo becomes self-aware and the agents are shooting at him? There's like a hail of bullets, but suddenly he gets it yeah and he just puts his hand up and he says no, and then the bullets just stop and hover in the air and he kind of considers, and he cocks his head to the side and then they all just fall to the floor right and then he's like right yes this is how we're going to deal with it. Yeah, that's how yeah?

Speaker 1: 36:05

because he slowed down. Slow down if something's coming in at you, just kind of just back up a little bit, create some space and just say, okay, what's coming at me here, yeah.

Speaker 2: 36:14

Do I really want to take this on, if you?

Speaker 2: 36:17

feel that yes, well, I mean, it's so wise, because I think a lot of times we think well, of course it's a job. It's going to feel negative at times. I just have to put up with it. But there are certain scenarios, to your point of being able to say no to the wrong fit right, like that took years and years and years for me to learn and I always under the impression that I needed to get thicker skin when I would feel that and the idea to get thicker skin is to callous and so to just like keep repeating that same negative feeling and thinking that it was going to eventually go away until my body was physically reacting to no, you do not need to be putting yourself in that situation that makes you recoil and makes you say I don't want to really work with this person. Like, why do that to yourself?

Speaker 1: 37:06

Yeah, cause we both work with this person. Like, why do that to yourself? Yeah, because we both work with similar people, right? They're generally wealthy, high net worth, successful, whatever overachievers, um who are very, very demanding on the people in and around their lives, and we form part of that. We're part of that team that makes their lives better, run smoothly, saves them time all of that wonderful stuff. But everybody that works around you, works for you, still deserves some level of respect.

Speaker 1: 37:37

I don't know where we kind of went off in this conversation, but also to reinforce the point is that sometimes I will do podcast interviews with people and I think to myself thank God that was over, because they were really hard work. Because you get people that come on, they only want to actually sell their thing, they don't want to give anything away about themselves, their company sorry, not not their company but they don't want to give anything away about themselves, any of the things they've learned, because they've got some coaching course or something that they want to save for that. And they you know and and they're they're the hardest work and I'm like I don't want to interview those people ever again. But you completely different, because my energy levels are way through the roof and I'm thinking we're going to get to the end of the time that I've got with you very shortly, but I want to do this again and and I'm actually there's some other ideas I'll talk to you about offline, because this lot don't need to hear all about it, but I've got some ideas.

Speaker 2: 38:32

I love it.

Speaker 1: 38:32

So yeah, anyway, so yeah, so it's, it's energy is a big deal for me at the moment.

Speaker 2: 38:39

Yeah, so yeah, I feel that. Well, thanks for saying that I don't have any courses to sell, so don't worry and didn't come on with the agenda. You know it's funny. I pitched myself to you because I thought exactly that we probably have a lot of crossover in the type of clientele that we serve and, you know, running a luxury travel agency and the fact that, like I send clients right down the street from you all the time, we never know if they might be in need of some tailoring services. Who knows what that might look like. But you're right there, there is a good energy here and and I appreciate you saying that I don't really have anything to sell today. I just really wanted to have a good conversation and I love how you put it that your listeners enjoy like they're overhearing a coffee shop conversation, and a good coffee shop conversation should lead to more ideas, more partnership opportunities, more, you know, just a good bouncing off of each other.

Speaker 1: 39:31

Yeah, I hope we've done that today. Yeah, I hope so too. People have seen tell me um, so podcast, who made you the boss, which I'm sure people can find anywhere that they like to get their podcasts. How's it going when? When did you start? I've just subscribed, so I'm going to be like binging episodes like crazy.

Speaker 2: 39:53

Thank you. Well, it shouldn't take you too long. It's pretty new, so I've got I think I've got about 11 or so episodes in our season. Two launches next week, so I'll have more for you, but it's so much fun.

Speaker 2: 40:04

You know, I started it because I really wanted to amplify and provide credibility for what we're doing at Jet Set, which was really more about the professional development side, because that's something that we really look at, that we find important to our culture. And I started thinking, well, how can I get like a larger? You know community around professional development, and so who made you the boss was born? You know community around professional development, and so who made you the boss was born? And this idea is, you know, especially as high achievers, as entrepreneurs, as anyone that finds themselves in a leadership role.

Speaker 2: 40:34

There's oftentimes those little moments where the ground lens creep in and the inner critic says like, well, who are you to lead a team of people? You know you put your shirt on backwards this morning, or whatever. It is like. They know you, they're going to know you don't know what you're doing. And I want to flip the script on that because I feel like, if you are, if you're running your company well, it's going to be a little bit larger every day, and every day you're running a company that's bigger than you've ever done it before.

Speaker 2: 40:59

So you should feel a certain level of imposter syndrome, because you haven't done it before, and so so my take on this is that when you hear that inner critic give yourself a round of applause Like you're doing something right, that means you're getting outside of your comfort zone. It's there for a reason. You don't have to listen to what it's got to say, but use it as a good omen that you're actually putting yourself out there.

Speaker 1: 41:22

Yeah, absolutely. I mean I love the kind of tagline for for the podcast, a podcast for recovering workaholics yes, I don't know if many of those workaholics that are subscribed and listening to you are recovering at all, that we're probably still just workaholics, right? Yes, yes you just through the level we can all work on it together.

Speaker 1: 41:42

Yeah, it's my hope I love that yeah um, so yeah, so um, who made you the boss? People need to go look for that, so jet set world travel. Do you only deal with clients locally, or can you look after clients anywhere in the world?

Speaker 2: 42:01

we're able to look after clients anywhere in the world. Yeah, so we're. We are a? Um completely virtual company, so no store friends to walk into.

Speaker 1: 42:11

All of our advisors are located all over and, um more than likely, they're probably traveling at the time when they're working with you too, so that's pretty cool, it's a very flexible remote job and they serve clients going anywhere from anywhere yeah, there we go, so that's applicable to all of you, since this podcast is listened to on every continent in the world, except for the North and the South Pole.

Speaker 2: 42:41

That's a great reach.

Speaker 1: 42:42

Yeah, that's pretty cool, right? I mean to be fair, some of those continents. Lindsay, there might only be one person listening, but still.

Speaker 2: 42:48

Still someone.

Speaker 1: 42:50

Some village in Africa or something Brilliant. Lindsay, thank you so much. We are going to have to do this again, if you will allow me to interrogate you again, of course, but I have thought of a hundred different things that we can you know, sort of angles, things, subjects, whatever that we can we can go into. So, um, so let's talk about that offline. Um, did I ask you if you've had fun today? Have you had fun today?

Speaker 2: 43:16

I have had fun today. Thank you, roberto, it's been a lovely conversation.

Speaker 1: 43:20

You're welcome, um, so thank you. Lindsay is going to be back and I'm going to get that organized as soon as we come off this call. Thank you all so much for listening and joining Lindsay and I. Please do check out Lindsay's podcast. Give her some support. Show her some love. Leave her a rating and review once you've listened to a couple of episodes, because the algorithms have all changed and now podcasts are getting served to people fresh when they've got the newest reviews, and please do the same for this as well.

Speaker 1: 43:52

You can follow the show on Instagram for latest episode updates at TaylorLewinTalkPodcast. Highlights and news are there as well. I'm doing this outro really badly, lindsay, because I've had such a big break from this I've forgotten what I normally say. You can email me at TaylorLewintalkpodcast at gmailcom. Hit, subscribe. Give the show a rating and review. Click the share button this is the important bit In your player to send this episode to someone you know who needs to hear what Lindsay taught us today. And if you love Tailoring Talk and you want to support the show, you can hit the support show in the link in the notes. Have a want to support the show? You can hit the support show in the link in the notes. Have a great week, be good to each other. I'll be better at intros and outros on the next one and I will catch you on that next one.