How To Make Google Learn To Love You! (And Other Digital Branding Tips) with Jason Barnard

Unlock the secrets of taming the digital marketing beast with the savviness of AI as digital marketing maven Jason Barnard joins me for a mind-expanding journey.

A consummate edutainer, Jason started teaching me amazing new concepts off the bat during our pre-recording chat and I had to include those powerful 6 minutes in the final edit for you!

We navigate the neural pathways of AI technologies like Gemini, ChatGPT and Microsoft Copilot, drawing lessons from how their information processing works so you can further enhance your digital strategies.

You'll discover how a UNIFIED online presence is not just a choice, but a necessity in today's AI-driven world, and why treating Google like a child might just be the master key to communicating with all AI technologies.

Through this episode, you'll also learn the power of managing your digital brand for maximum visibility and the critical importance of anchoring your online identity with a personal touch, ensuring your voice stands out among the AI-generated chatter.

The grand finale of our conversation is not just a call to action, but an invitation to revolutionise your digital presence with Jason's expertise. You'll learn and gain a deep understanding of how a focused digital footprint can catapult your business's success and why direct human interactions still reign supreme in building meaningful connections.

Get ready to be inspired and level up your expertise with all things digital branding and i Intelligence!

Enjoy!

Connect with Jason at https://www.kalicube.com

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

I mean it's interesting you started off mentioning your megabot there, because as we speak, I've got Gemini, gpt and Copilot open and I generally have them open at all times and I'm constantly flipping between them and all of that sort of stuff. They are like my children in a child labour sense.

Speaker 2: 0:19

Have you asked them who is Jason Barnard?

Speaker 1: 0:22

No.

Speaker 2: 0:23

I'll do that now, though, because this is one of my party tricks, because our strategy of Google as a child actually works for all of these machines.

Speaker 1: 0:35

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 0:36

Oh, holy crap.

Speaker 1: 0:39

Yeah, it's universal, it's timeless, it's delightful yeah yeah, yeah, well, I guess I mean mean it makes sense, right, because all of these things are getting their information from google.

Speaker 2: 0:52

well, they're all getting it from the web, and they all function in the same way. They're not all inventing new technology to do the same job. And they're all using the same data source the web and they're all serving the same audience, which is people looking for solutions. So, obviously, obviously, they all serving the same audience, which is people looking for solutions. So, obviously, obviously, they all use the same technology stack, or a very similar one. They use the same algorithm approach, they use the same data set and they're serving the same audience. So they all function the same. So if, if I was speaking to somebody the other day who said, well, I've got myself into google, bing, but I haven't managed ChatGPT yet, I say why on earth have you got a different strategy for all of them? It should be the same strategy for the whole lot. Yeah, and that struck me as very strange, because people are used to thinking I need a different strategy for the different machines. They don't understand. They all function the same and they have for years.

Speaker 1: 1:42

Yeah, I just typed, here is Jason Barnard into same and they have for years. Yeah, I just typed, here is jason bernard into oh, co-pilot is going for ages, so it's really interesting because chat gpt was literally just like four sentences, and then when you go to gemini, that was a paragraph, and then a quick rundown of your career with four bullet points, three, and then, uh, then uh, copilot three sentences, the last one being let me share some interesting details about him and then it's got then it does the bullet points and it's got but it's got four main headings and then it's got bullet points within them, so the most comprehensive was um copilot, funny enough well the copilot does a really interesting thing, which is a waterfall effect of queries, is that it will make the first query Jason Barnard, who is Jason Barnard?

Speaker 2: 2:30

then it will do queries based on the results, so it will figure out what the next questions are or what the follow-up questions are, and I can't remember what they call it, but it's basically a cascading system of queries to bring up that incredibly complete and up-to-date answer because they're using Bing's web index. So you end up with a situation of ingrained fact, which is what Gemini and ChatGPT do, plus the live results evaluated for the veracity and the cascade. Our co-pilot is hugely, hugely powerful.

Speaker 2: 2:59

I know Fabrice Canel, who's the project manager at bing, who's the the boss basically at bing, and he explains all this stuff to me and he, he's, he's a really nice guy, he's french, so I speak french too, so we're kind of french chums, as it were. He just kind of looks at the world around him and says why are google making life so comfortable, complicated, for themselves, which is a delightful kind of perspective, and the lovely thing thing about Bing is they've got nothing to lose. So he's just saying you know, we're profitable for Microsoft. Microsoft don't rely on us for their income. We're profitable, so we're allowed to do what we want, and every percentage point we win is a billion dollars. So what do we care? Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1: 3:42

The really interesting thing. I just asked, asked co-pilot, who is Roberto Rivella, right, so I can tell where it's got a lot of the initial information from on the first bit of the cascade, because it's pretty much all from my website, and then in this in the second one, it says other endeavors, art and film. So apparently I'm also known for my work in the film industry. I've got credits as an art director, art department and set director for movies such as vantage point, get the gringo and sin nombre. And then it talks about the podcast as well.

Speaker 1: 4:19

So it's obviously got me mixed up with another Roberto Rivello. There aren't that many of us. There's another, I think there's a third one who's a mathematician. So it's obviously got me mixed up with another Roberto Rivello. There aren't that many of us, there's another, I think there's a third one who's a mathematician. Uh, so it's obviously got me mixed up with the arty one, but I'll take it because it's just made me look even better than I already am. Uh, anyway, I also like the fact that co-pilot, anyway, we're not here to talk about all of this, we're here to talk about you, but this is all really really fascinating stuff right, but no, I find it fascinating.

Speaker 2: 4:45

I don't know how useful it is to your audience, but it's. It's absolutely super duper fascinating for me. So I mean, yeah, it'd be great if we can kind of just discuss how interesting all this is, but also give some practical information about how to deal with it, how to manage it, because I give you hints about that easy peasy because it isn't complicated yeah, I feel like I'm your koala and you're my bula.

Speaker 2: 5:10

Sorry, yeah well, there are a couple of things. Number one is google. The child saw all these other machines. So you're saying that your child in the child labor sense, and I'm saying that my children, in the terms that I'm their educator, yeah, yeah, so I'm teaching them and holding by the hand. So I, I'm Buwa, helping them. But for our clients, that's what we do at CaliCube. I realised the other day CaliCube is just Buwa is that we guide you and hold your hand and help you face this incredibly scary world. And Buwa is something I've been my entire life and I've built a company that is Buwa for our clients and Boowa for the machines. So for me, the rest of the world is Koala. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're Koala.

Speaker 1: 5:49

You're a yellow koala, how lovely. Exactly Well, brown one. So our audience now because I'm probably going to include all of this is wondering what the F are these two talking about? So I better introduce you.

Speaker 1: 6:03

Welcome to Taboring Talk. I'm Roberto Rivella, bespoke tater and weaver of superpowers. I prepare my clients and listeners to win. We'll meet self-starters and creators, dive into their journeys and uncover valuable lessons to help you be the very best you can be. Please help the show to grow and help more people by hitting subscribe and giving us a rating. Today's guest is a true master of online brand management, reshaping Google's gaze with strategic finesse since day one.

Speaker 2: 6:32

As the.

Speaker 1: 6:32

CEO of Catercube. He's not just optimizing, he's orchestrating a symphony of digital presence. He also knows how. I crafted this intro in honor of what he actually does for a living, from captivating conference audiences worldwide to hosting the acclaimed Branded Search and Beyond with Jason Barnard podcast. His impact is felt far and wide. With over two decades of digital marketing experience and an eclectic past that includes rocking out with the barking gods. Our guest's journey is as vibrant as his digital footprint. Here to talk personal branding in the digital sense and how to make Google learn to love you, tatooine Talkers, please welcome Jason Barnard to the show. Jason, how are you?

Speaker 2: 7:14

Thank you very much, roberto. That was absolutely delightful. I'm delighted to be here to talk about Google as a child, how can we make it lovers? And for anybody who was a bit scared by the initial conversation, it's actually very easy. It really isn't complicated. These machines are children and our job is to educate them about who we are, what we do, which audience we serve. And if you do it in a intentional manner, it becomes very easy. Yeah, totally.

Speaker 1: 7:40

Now. It's really really nice to uh when I do get the opportunity to speak to a fellow countryman, because I can hear there is a British accent going on. Where are you from originally? Because you are not actually based on this island. You're based on a different island on the other side of the planet, I think, trying to work out where Mauritius is.

Speaker 2: 8:00

Yeah, I used to be, so I'll give you the location history Born in Leeds, brought up in Otley, near Leeds Exactly.

Speaker 1: 8:12

I work for West York's police so I know most of the different districts. Yeah, sorry. Who knows, you might have arrested me once in the past, oh no, no, no, I was responsible for IT infrastructure and all this nonsense.

Speaker 2: 8:32

All right, okay, fair enough, spending their money basically. Oh how lovely move from Otley to Liverpool where, interestingly enough, fun fact, I went to the same university as John Lennon, but several decades later.

Speaker 1: 8:42

I was going to say, if Club, if you went at the same time as John Lennon, you look bloody good.

Speaker 2: 8:48

Yeah, no, not quite A couple of decades later, but I did get to play the Cavern Club oh, brilliant, which is a super-duper fun thing to be able to say yeah, yeah. Then I moved to Paris and joined the band you mentioned earlier on, the Barking Dogs, and played punk folk music for 10 years, making a living touring the country playing double bass and generally having a really good time, and then created the Buwan Kuala we were talking about the cartoon characters Buwan Kuala with my ex-wife and we moved to Mauritius, which is a tiny island in the Indian Ocean. We lived there for 13 years making cartoons for kids on a desert island or a tropical island with beaches and sun what could be better? Fantastic, yeah. Then moved back to France.

Speaker 2: 9:31

I moved back to France about 10 years ago and I created or founded CaliCube, and since then I've been learning to educate the algorithms Google's algorithms principally, but in fact, all of these algorithms Perplexity, chachipt, bing, copilot, google, gemini. The same strategy works for them all and my job as Buwa the Blue Dog was to educate and help Koala the yellow koala, who's my best friend in the cartoon but also to educate the children we were engaging with At one point 60 million visits in 2007 to our website, so it was a lot of children and now I'm educating these machines like their children, because the analogy is absolutely perfect and my career has all been about educating and sharing information and helping people, which I really, really, really enjoy. So I now live in France. Currently I'm in Slovenia for various reasons, so I get about a bit.

Speaker 1: 10:32

Yeah, would you say, you're a digital nomad of sorts, kind of.

Speaker 2: 10:37

Yeah Well, I've never owned a house and I've never had a proper job. I've never had a job where I was paid from nine to five. I created my own company every time I needed a job and built my own job. And I never bought a house because I hadn't had the money, but also because I never stay in one place for long enough.

Speaker 1: 10:51

So yeah, yeah, self-starting creator in the truest sense of the word. I mean we, we straight away at the beginning of the conversation. So the audience jason and I have never met this is the first time um and we straight away got into a conversation about various AI tools. So, um, chat, gpt, gemini I'm literally just looking at my Mac application bar and just reading off everything that I I tend to use in tandem. Um, perplexity as well, because I did actually pre-order the rabbit r1. Um, so mine, mine, arrives in july, I think, so I'm hoping by then they'll have fixed all the problems with it, because it's had really bad press lately. Um, and so with that they actually gave a year's subscription to perplexity pro. I think it is whatever, the highest tier of perplexity, oh wow lucky or not.

Speaker 2: 11:44

Lucky you actually, because you're having lots of problems uh, with perplexity itself.

Speaker 1: 11:49

I've actually found it really really good in the sense that it seems to talk a more natural language than the others do, and I think that's the the thing, right. So when? So people now are much more aware. Obviously, gpt was kind of the first one where people you know you'd be at dinner parties and stuff and people will be going oh yeah, just get chat gpt to do it and you'll be like what the hell? What chat gpt? What are they talking about? Don't no idea.

Speaker 1: 12:16

And then months later it's commonplace language and now people are starting to discover that there are other ai tools like gemini, copilot, etc. Etc. And as they use them and they do get different responses. So at the start of our call you said to me type in who is jason barnard. The information was quite similar, but gpt, a paragraph, gemini, a little bit more than that and some bullet points, and then CodePider, which I think they're Microsoft, so they own GPT, but interestingly it was the most comprehensive and then cascaded into a whole load of other stuff. So it told me, your location in France gave me some follow-up questions that I might want to search for, including your company as well, and so I think people like myself as well come to the conclusion that, okay, well, I've got some guys that I've downloaded and signed up for on how to master prompting in chat GPT.

Speaker 1: 13:24

When I get time I need to go and find out what I need to do in Gemini, and then I need to go find out how to use Copilot and then I need to find out how to prompt for perplexity. They just assume that they're all different and you said it's the same for all of them.

Speaker 2: 13:39

How? Yeah, well, there are multiple things there. Really interesting kind of set of information you've given there. Number one is why are the other two so short and Bing so complete? And the answer is the other two are reading from their own memory. They're not looking it up on the internet, so it's like children who have learnt by rote exactly who I am. They don't need to look it up, they just spit it out.

Speaker 1: 14:01

Yeah, so you ask me a question, I immediately close my eyes, go to retrieve that information and then I spit it back at you yeah, whereas bing has that, and so it can start with that.

Speaker 2: 14:12

But then it goes and looks in the encyclopedia, looks on the internet, looks around for what it can find and summarizes that in addition. So what we've done, or what we do at caliq, with our process the caliq process, which is how you manage a digital brand online we embed this information in their memory and their brain, so it's instant recall memory and that's the power, because you can search for anybody's name and they can figure it out by looking on the internet. But they're taking the search results and trying to summarize those rather than saying what they know is fact. And you will notice, if they spit it out straight away, they will tend to say things like world-leading expert. When they don't, they won't commit themselves to that kind of enthusiasm and they'll say he knows a bit about digital marketing, so they'll be less kind of expansive about it.

Speaker 2: 15:04

So our strategy is to get these machines to fundamentally understand who you are and not have to guess, and that's self-determination. In the future, it's can I have self-determination about how I'm understood by these machines and how they represent me? And that moves me to the next point, which is the conversation. Is that you describe with co-pilot the conversation you're starting to have with these machines. You started with a search and Bing still say that's the jumping off point, but then they engage you in a conversation. So the trick to being out there and being visible on the new engines which we call assistive engines rather than search engines, because they're assisting and they're having a conversation the trick to win that game is to get the machines to understand you in depth, with confidence, so that they will introduce you to the conversation with the subset of their users who are your audience. That's the key.

Speaker 1: 16:09

Wow, it's such a paradigm shift in the way that you know you kind of think about this sort of thing, because most people I know, myself included just end up getting into a massive fight with these things and not kind of understanding that. You know, you come from the point of view that it is like a child that you know is kind of sitting there just waiting for you to kind of prompt it and ask it a question so that it can then run off and give you answers and, you know, even going in with the attitude that it wants to learn from you. So can you give me an example of how you know that kind of works in in practice?

Speaker 2: 16:49

yeah, well, you've made a another interesting point, which is you're looking at it as a child with whom you're having a conversation. I'm looking at it from the perspective of how can I make that child or educate that child so it has the conversation that I want with you, with other people, with my audience, and I think a lot of people, as you say, go in thinking how do I prompt, how do I use this to my advantage to create content for my website or to find answers to questions? And I'm one of the few people in the world who is looking at it from the other perspective is how can I use this for marketing? How can I get myself into the brain of this machine? How can I get it to introduce me to the conversation with its users and then recommend me as the best solution? Because when you're using these machines, you're looking for the solution to a problem, and I like also the term that they are the most important and the biggest influences in the world. They're having billions of micro niche conversations with billions of people every day, and you think about the biggest TikTok influence or the biggest YouTube influence. You can think of 500,000, a million followers peanuts compared to what these machines are capable of doing If they're willing to introduce you to the conversation and recommend you, and the only problem you have is that you can't pay them to do it. You have to do it indirectly by educating them, which is what we do.

Speaker 2: 18:05

So your question was how do you do that? And the answer is you need what we call an entity home, and we can start there. The entity home is one web page on the internet that you own that they understand is your representation of yourself. They're actively looking for it. John Mueller from Google says we call this reconciliation. It's the point of reconciliation. I call it the entity home. It's where the machine can find information about you, from you, and it needs to be on a website you own, and I would advise you for personal branding that it's your own personal website. You are not your company. You need your own personal website so you can start controlling the information that these machines understand, what they focus on and how they represent you. If you don't have an entity home, you're going to be struggling from the get-go.

Speaker 2: 18:56

Yeah, wow, oh, and the entity home only needs to be a two-page website. You don't need a huge website with a blog, you just need a homepage where you talk to your audience. So you say here I am, I'm a tailor, I also like to play golf. I also like this. If you want to engage with me, go here. If you want to talk about golf, go over here. And then an about page where you state clearly the facts for the machine, and the machine will look at the about page and use that as your version of the facts who you are, who you serve, what your speciality is and why you're a credible solution.

Speaker 1: 19:31

Yeah, at that point it will just look around the web and see does the rest of the web agree with you and if it does job done, yeah, and then I guess it kind of just puts you away on the shelf as a point of reference for when people are asking questions because they're looking for a solution to a problem that you have told it that you can solve through your branding. I mean, it's almost like creating your own wikipedia page or branding guideline right, because that's what brand is. It's it's, it's, it's. You know, the website is the jam jar with the label on the front, and you're making sure that everything inside there is the jam that's described on the outside. It's one of my favorite. I'm very visual.

Speaker 1: 20:18

By the way, I was really excited to talk to you because I thought you would get it, because some people the jam jar I do yeah, well, some people, I think, find me a bit weird because I talk, I think, in animation, so everything going on in my head and I'm trying to describe it to you. But when you're teaching me stuff, I'm immediately animating it in my head and that's how I kind of process information. Is that weird?

Speaker 2: 20:41

no, no, no, no. Having made a lot of cartoons we made a TV series with Bua and Koala my brain works like that a lot as well, and I think it's helpful because I come from a geeky world of data. We've got 2 billion data points from Google collected over the last nine years and part of the reason I'm an analyst, so I have a degree in economics with a first in statistical analysis. It's something I'm very good at and I think people think, oh, that means he's an accountant or that kind of person, but I'm not. It's imagination that helps me to do that, and exactly what you're talking about is I see things moving in my brain and it's the numbers becoming something that's alive, something I can relate to, and it's really helpful.

Speaker 2: 21:25

But coming back to Wikipedia, which you make a very, very, very good point, these machines have what we call knowledge graphs and the knowledge graph is simply a huge machine-readable encyclopedia. So Wikipedia is an encyclopedia for human beings and it's tiny. It's got 6 million articles. So you're not going to get an article in Wikipedia unless you know what to call it. Google's knowledge graph has 54 billion articles in it, so it's actually quite easy to create your Wikipedia article. Google's knowledge graph has 54 billion articles in it, so it's actually quite easy to create your Wikipedia article, your jam jar in Google's brain.

Speaker 2: 22:02

So from that perspective, you only need to be understood. You don't need to be notable. Google wants to understand the whole world. It's a child that is desperate to understand the whole world, to, as you say, have the right person to solve the problem for its user on demand like that. So if you can get it to understand who you are, who you serve and why you're credible, it will recommend you as the solution to their problem. Because that's its job. That's all it's designed to do solve people's problems as efficiently as possible. And if you're the best solution, you get the vote. The person comes to you because the machine's recommended you.

Speaker 1: 22:40

So you almost want to have this attitude all the time, whenever you're doing anything that's going to touch Google, which, to be fair, any content we create that goes on the web, right, but then having the attitude so I'll give you an example. So having the attitude of, okay, I'm example. So having the attitude of, okay, I'm about to push this piece of content or press publish on this, I need to make sure that I'm helping google to understand that this is valuable information for it. So my assistant, uh, has finally discovered chat gpt, and I said so right here. We, you're going to be so much more productive. And she so she's now going on websites like not just answer what's it called. You know the web's most searched questions, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 2: 23:31

Oh, answer the questions.

Speaker 1: 23:33

Ask the public. Ask the public. You're much better at this than I am. Exactly Sorry the public. Ask the public, you're much better at this than I am Exactly.

Speaker 1: 23:38

Sorry, I didn't mean exactly. No, you're the master. I didn't mean that there was a delay in the Zoom call, so, yeah, so we're just kicking off wedding season in the tailoring industry. It's gone, absolutely freaking nuts, um, and so I said to her so what we need to do is, um, we need a few more wedding related articles on the blog, but we need them coming from a point of view of trying to help people, because a lot of grooms at the moment are asking questions such as can I wear a linen suit to a wedding? Will it crease Blah, blah, blah? You know what the hell should I wear? Because most of them don't know when should I order my wedding suit.

Speaker 2: 24:25

Because most of them leave it to the last fricking minute.

Speaker 1: 24:35

Yeah, because you only get married once in theory, so you don't know until you get that in theory. Yeah, exactly In theory. But I think also the other thing I've noticed that we've got a generation coming through who are getting married, who have got a lot of disposable income. Um, either, because our generation of parents are helping them out with everything. Sometimes, when I fill out their address details jason, right, and I'm like, oh, where do you live? Um, and they're like, oh, in whatever road in hampstead or kensington or st john's wood, and I'm looking, I'm thinking, are you renting? And they're like, no, we own it. And I'm like, okay, like you've had help anyway, right, good luck to them. We all need to live our best lives. Um, we do anyway, right. The point is they're coming in with a lot of disposable income and, on average, this, this generation, is spending more money on their weddings than any other before. Certainly my 22 plus year career.

Speaker 1: 25:23

I think part of that is down to Instagram, social media, etc. Because it's all about looking good in the photos. Because that's the other question they ask a lot what colors look best when you're being photographed, right? What colors look best when you're being photographed, right? What fabrics look best when you're being photographed. Red, there we go, and here I am complete contrast in green, but anyway, um, so what was the point, right? So, uh, my assistant then used Google, used GPT, et cetera to sort of you know, find some questions that would make good article headlines. And when she published the article, so she got GPT to do the draft, sent it to me. I then made it sound like an actual human, because there are terms GPT, et cetera used that we never, ever use in everyday life Elevate.

Speaker 1: 26:18

Huh, elevate, elevate it uses elevate yeah, it's like I never say elevate to anyone, right, um? So so once I was happy with it and I'd rewritten it, then she published it and I looked at it and she used our website's automatic link generator, which is gobbledygook. And so I said to her and I was really proud of myself because I think this is probably the way you would do it I said to her people are going to be searching for the information within this article. We need to help google to help them to find the information. So what do you think would have been a better URL to use? And so she thought about it for two seconds and she said the title of the article, which, in this case, is what wedding suit should I wear this season? And so that's what we changed the headline to to try and help Google out and help ourselves out as well. Am I going along the right lines here with my attitudes and how it's changing to all this sort of thing in our approach?

Speaker 2: 27:16

yeah, you, you are. I mean one. One thing is the machines are looking for things, that information or articles that they can't currently produce with their own ai. So the idea that you will write using chat, gpt or google gemini and then just put it on a website and then google will use it is not the best approach, because if they could do it for you, they can do it for themselves. They don't need you. You need to give them extra information. They want information gain, so your expertise needs to go into that article to give them additional information, so they will use it.

Speaker 1: 27:51

Yeah, which is exactly what I did, so I used what she produced in gpt as a skeleton almost, and then I pretty much rewrote it. Just sat there on my macbook uh which, by the way, everyone listening, we're going to do an apple episode soon freaking fantastic device and I've got a lot to say about those new ipads anyway, um, but I I used what she produced as a skeleton almost and I was like, right, okay, fine, and then I rewrote it completely, added some extra information in, change the language, etc, etc. So by the time she got it back it was pretty different to what she sent me in the first place, but it was helpful to me because with everything I've got going on in my life at the moment, I can't get clear space to write sometimes and you just need that jumping offoff point, as it were.

Speaker 2: 28:35

Yeah, no they're huge time-safers and they kick you off on the job, which is great, but I'm going to tell you something that's going to, I hope, blow your mind. I'm ready. Google is obsessed by understanding people. So the knowledge graph we said earlier on, google's machine-readable encyclopedia contains 54 billion things people, places, companies, records, events, music groups, films, actors. In the last year, the number of people it's identified in its knowledge graph factual information about people has been multiplied by four, and the rest of the world companies, music groups, albums, films, podcasts, events hasn't increased at all.

Speaker 2: 29:26

Google is only trying to understand people. Right now, it's doubling down on understanding people, so it's quadrupled the number of people it understands and it's trying to identify who are the content creators, who are the people it can trust to create content and you can see where I'm going with this is they're looking to figure out are you an expert? If it can understand who you are and what you're an expert in, then it can judge that the article you have written is likely to be helpful to its users. And it also means that if you put your name to something that's been written by AI, you're shooting yourself in the foot Because the machine will understand that it's not you who wrote it and you lose the credibility that you managed to gain through the understanding it has in the article you've written.

Speaker 2: 30:16

So you can use AI to start an article, but if you're putting your name on it, be very careful that you are giving that information gain. You are rewriting it in your own style because Google has a thing called an author vector and it compresses your article down into a hash, which is just a string of characters, and it can identify who wrote it. It can identify Shakespeare's style, it can identify your style, it can identify my style. So, once it identifies your basic pattern of writing, if you use AI, you will be decredibilizing yourself and you're going to lose the game. Yeah, so don't use AI alone, alone.

Speaker 1: 30:55

Use ai as a kickoff point yeah, so it's like because I'm going to share it with you. I'm so sorry, because it popped into my head. It's like I'm I'm google and I just I am in this in your imagination.

Speaker 2: 31:09

I see the cartoon going on in your head.

Speaker 1: 31:11

I'm google I'm google and I decide that saturday night I'm going to go to the theater to see it play and I'm going to take you with me, jason barnard, the brand cert guy. So we go to see. Um, so we're going to see some play in the west end and we sit down, the curtain pulls back at the end of act one. I stand up and I turn around to you and the rest of the audience and I say I wrote that this is complete horseshit. I wrote this play. And then the playwright comes out and loses all credibility and people are throwing their popcorn and their ice creams at his head and so on, and that's it, career's over Done. And I walk out and I'm like I'm not referencing any of that guy's work ever, ever again.

Speaker 1: 32:02

It's kind of the same thing, isn't it? Because google, or whatever it is, knows what it spat out at whatever point in time. It's not like a human that you get drunk one night and then maybe you forget what you did. Yeah, the day before, or as we age, we forget what we did years ago. The machines it's all stored ones and zeros in memory banks. They can access that information anytime they want in a, in tens of millions of seconds probably 100% and they have perfect recall and they fact check.

Speaker 2: 32:40

One of the huge problems that they have right now is people are criticising them because they're not always accurate and they get laughed at a lot. But you have to understand. You don't have to understand, but if you're a little bit empathetic and I talk about empathy for the child be empathetic to what their problem is. Their problem is how on earth do we understand an incredibly messy internet where we're trying to understand different people who have the same name? That's ambiguity. How do I identify this Jason Barnard from the Jason Barnard, who's an ice hockey player, from the Jason Barnard, who's a podcaster from the circus clown in South Africa? How do I identify which one is being talked about when I see Jason Barnard, the name that's number one, especially when there are multiple different people and especially when we as human beings are not consistent and not clear. So from the machine's perspective, it wants you to help it and what we do at CaliCube is partially that. The first step in the CaliCube process is to look at your digital footprint and we have a proprietary software that actually analyzes and audits your digital footprint and prioritizes the resources that are out there on the web according to their importance to these machines, and then we just go through and we clarify all of the information that's out there about you so that the machine sees that clear, consistent corroboration of the information you're giving on your entity, home, the website, the web page that you own. If you don't do that, the machine will never understand. It will think either that I'm the same person as the clown or it will start to split me into multiple people. It will think well, the rock musician is one person, the guy who did the cartoons is another, and the guy who's a digital marketer is another. And all of a sudden there are three of me in its brain and obviously that's not a good thing either. So the CaliCube process is foundationally about understanding. We optimize the knowledge sources that these machines use in order that they understand clearly who you are and we build up their confidence in that and that they can identify you as part of a particular group of people.

Speaker 2: 34:46

So you as a tailor, me as a digital marketer or an entrepreneur, and they know that you are a tailor and that you will serve people who are looking for a tailor.

Speaker 2: 34:58

You're not going to serve people looking for digital marketing or cartoons or rock groups, but I could potentially serve the three audiences, but I want to and that's the second part is I want Google to focus on me as a digital marketer. There's no point in it sending people to me who want me as a double bass player, because I don't want to still play double bass, but that's not my primary career. I don't want people coming to me to ask me to be a voice actor. I want people coming to me to say I want you to help me with my branding, my marketing online. I want you to future-proof my personal brand and get me more visible to my audience. That's what I want, and so I have to spend my efforts to make sure that Google, the child and the other machines as children understand who I am, those three aspects of me, and understand which one I want them to focus on right now. Which one am I most relevant and helpful and valuable to their users, and that's digital marketing.

Speaker 1: 35:54

Yeah, and you know, I guess Caterata cube's approach to that is helping individuals or organizations to to actually control their brand and rein it in, because, again, if you think of your all the facets, I mean you look at you okay. So, rock musician, you stamp that on the side of one horse. I don't know why. Now horses are popped into my head. Um, then we brand another horse branding's awful. Um, it is, yeah, but I mean, but that's where the word came from.

Speaker 1: 36:22

Right, I did right I've just realized yeah, you know when they used to brand their cattle and, you know, burn their mark into so that if the herd strayed, I would guess another farmer would be like oh, these sheep belong to Jason, I better return them to him. And then you say rock musician into one, animator, cartoonist into another, voiceover artist on another horse, digital marketer on another. So you've got five horses right now, and the problem is, if you don't control that, they run all over the damn place and people aren't actually sure which one you are, whereas if we can pen them in and then say, right, I need you to focus on that stallion over there, the one with the digital marketing brand, don't focus so much on the others. That's where we need you to focus and it's about getting that control in, because otherwise and I think that's what a lot of people especially when you talk to um, entrepreneurs who were running either solo businesses going up to sort of SME level because they're, because they think very often and I've been guilty of this in the past they need to be on every platform. Yeah, so I need to be on TikTok, linkedin, instagram, facebook, x threads.

Speaker 1: 37:38

I'm sure there are some more that I haven't even mentioned the. The truth is they don't, but they do it anyway, and they don't do any one of them consistently, and they also aren't consistent across them either. And then after a few months or even years, their brand is. Identity is all over the place. People looking for them don't quite know what the hell they're about. Do do you at calicube? And now I'm really sorry, I'm listening, I'm now like really plugging uh, jason's business. But you know you are pretty much the only company that takes this approach.

Speaker 2: 38:15

Yeah, we are the only company who takes this approach. I invented it. There we go.

Speaker 1: 38:22

What was my question going to?

Speaker 2: 38:23

be, it was. How do we figure out exactly where you need?

Speaker 1: 38:27

to be.

Speaker 2: 38:28

Now what we talk about is stand where your audience is looking and, as you say, if you're a tailor and you're on TikTok and your audience isn't looking at TikTok, then you're making a mistake in terms of your audience, you're wasting your time and you're also confusing the machine. So it's a pointless exercise from a human being perspective, it's a waste of time for you and it's confusing for the machine. So what we do when we start working with a client is say who are the people you want to emulate? Give me a list of the tailors that you respect, and then we will compile a list of between 50 and 100, what we call entity equivalents which are a person who's a tailor in the UK in your case. We put them into our machine, our magic machine, and queries.

Speaker 2: 39:11

Google goes and gets lots of data from Google to add to the 2 billion data points we've already got, but it's additional data points that are specific to your cohort, and a cohort is a group of people who are similar and will act in a similar manner. That's how Google functions with cohorts. That's how GA4, google Analytics 4, functions. It functions by cohorts because they can't track anymore. So cohorts are the core of what Google's doing today track anymore. So cohorts are the core of what Google's doing today and they will say what our algorithm will do is spit out a list of the platforms you need to be present on in order to be the perfect representation of that specific cohort. So we would say to you first, you want to be on Facebook. Second, you want to be on Instagram. Third, you want to be on taylorcom tailoring website, whatever it might be, and we'll give you a list of the places you want to be on Instagram. Third, you want to be on taylorcom tailoring website, whatever it might be, and we'll give you a list of the places that you need to stand so that you're standing where your audience is looking, which is valuable your valuable time spent in the right places with the right audience. And it has the benefit of pleasing Google. Because Google then says right, he's standing in all of these places, and that means I can understand confidently and clearly that he's a tailor, even if he doesn't tell me he's a tailor. I know he's a tailor because of where he's standing and he isn't standing in all these other places. That don't make sense. And as soon as somebody creates that confused digital footprint, google's saying is he a tailor? Is he a sports person? Is he a wedding photographer? I don don't know all of these different things.

Speaker 2: 40:35

Because you created all these profiles. You've truly created a problem for yourself wasting your time in the short term, as you said, wasting your time trying to maintain it over time and confusing the machines. And I see people coming to us all the time saying, oh, I've done this. I created 70 social media profiles and the first thing we say to them is that was a huge mistake. We're not going to go about closing them all. And it's not about the quantity of information about you, it's the quality of the information and how well focused you are. And I'll give you a good example. Is I said that Google now has 54 billion things in its brain. So I calculated the other day Wikipedia has 6 million. Google has 54 billion. That's 9,000 times bigger, and 9,000 doesn't seem like a lot, unless you think about what that means in terms of multiples 54 billion, it's huge Beyond my imagination.

Speaker 2: 41:32

Personally. You might be able to imagine it in a cartoon. I could get to trillions. All imagination. Personally, you might be able to imagine it in a cartoon. I could go to trillions. Oh right, okay, so you're going to be on this boat longer than I am, but we have the lady who runs CaliCube Pro, who does the client work. She's basically taken what I learned to do, which is educate these machines. I built CaliCube Pro that automates a lot of the process, uses data to figure out exactly what needs to be done, and she's taken it to a new level and she's managed to create a knowledge panel for herself.

Speaker 2: 42:04

A knowledge panel is Google's representation of its understanding of you in the search engine results. I've just I'll come back to that she's got into Google's knowledge graph. She's got her article in Google's knowledge vault with three sources her LinkedIn, our website and the orgcom and she's been so clear and concise and simple and focused that Google's understood her with a very, very, very, very small digital footprint literally just three pages. So don't go for quantity, go for quality, focus, clarity. And now I'll explain what I mean by a knowledge panel, because that was a bit confusing.

Speaker 2: 42:49

If you search my name, jason Barnard, j-a-s-o-n-b-a-r-n-a-r-d on Google, you will see on the right-hand side a description of me from Google Books. You'll see Rand Fishkin, you'll see Joost de Valk, cindy Crum and Kevin Indig. That's a knowledge panel and it shows a description of me, my ex-wife's name, my mother's name, my date of birth and the people Google associates me with. And Joost de Valk is the guy who built the Joost SEO plugin for WordPress installed on 14% of the internet. So he's famous and I'm associated with him. That's brilliant.

Speaker 2: 43:25

That knowledge panel is Google's visual representation of the fact it's understood about me that it has in its pseudo-Wikipedia article jam jar in its machine readable encyclopedia. That's what we're looking for. That's what we sell and deliver to our clients. First and foremost is when Google can show that knowledge panel when somebody searches your name, it means it's understood you, it's confidently understood you and it's categorized you with your subtitle that you get there Mine's entrepreneur, yours would be tailor. It's understood who you are and who you serve with great confidence. Because, like a child, if the child isn't confident, it won't stand in the middle of the playground shouting out the information because it's worried about being embarrassed by being wrong. Yeah, and the knowledge panel, when google shows these facts on the right hand side on a search on desktop for your name, is the equivalent of google. The child standing in the middle of the playground shouting about who you are and how wonderful you are. That's what you want and that's what we deliver.

Speaker 1: 44:35

It's giving Google conviction, because you think about anything you do in life. If you're not sure about it, if you've got any doubt about it, you either don't do it, or if you do do it, you don't do it with any form of conviction. No one believes you, so then you lose your authority and your credibility, and that's what we're trying to help Google to do.

Speaker 2: 44:57

Yeah, and then we say Google, and then we come back and I'm repeating ourselves is all of these machines function the same.

Speaker 2: 45:06

They're all using the same data set. It's the web. They're all serving the same users, which is us human beings trying to serve us, solve our problems or help us solve our problems. They all have the same technology. Nobody's got completely different technology to the others and they all have the same aim, which is to solve their users' problems. So they all function the same.

Speaker 2: 45:25

So if you're building a different strategy for each of these machines Bing, google, chatgpt, perplexity then you're getting it wrong and you need to reconsider and the CiCube process. What we do is the single strategy that's universal, both universal for these machines, but also for our audience or our potential clients. It works for everybody and anybody and it's also timeless. It worked yesterday. I've been doing this for 10 years. It was working yesterday, it still works today and it will work into the future.

Speaker 2: 45:53

I have no fear of the future because these machines right now are simplistic. They learn by repetition, which is what we do. They're going to get smarter and smarter and smarter and smarter. I'm confident that if we have that foundational information in their brains as they start to get smarter, as they grow up and become teenagers, then they go to university and they start to outsmart us human beings. That's called singularity. If they have a foundational knowledge that they're incredibly confident in that we have provided, they will trust us when we tell them additional things. If we don't have that, they're not going to trust us. We will have lost control completely.

Speaker 1: 46:33

Self-determination forget it yeah there's a whole other conversation I can get into with you which I went today um yeah, let's stick to today I was at a talk with the.

Speaker 1: 46:47

I think at that time he was the single most funded human being in the area of artificial intelligence research. I can't remember his, can't remember his name. That's really embarrassing. Probably doesn't listen to the podcast, but obviously that question naturally came up right the Skynet question that everybody asked. And I turned around and I said we're sat in a coffee shop. You look across, there's a machine gun on the table. It's just a machine gun. There's no one, just a machine gun. There's no one around it, no one's touching it. It's just a machine gun on the table.

Speaker 1: 47:24

How do you feel? Well, it's a bit weird that there's a machine gun over there, but okay, okay, fine. Now someone walks over and picks the thing up and starts waving it around. Now how do you feel? Now I'm starting to feel a bit threatened. I'm worried for my life. Exactly the.

Speaker 1: 47:39

In my view at that time, these things are tools. It's how we wield them that makes the difference between whether they're quote unquote evil or there for the greater good. And I I you know, having my happy-go-lucky, trying to see the best in everything and every one way of life, I, you know, and also I think you've hopefully really helped and inspired people listening today, who see things like Bing, google search engines basically as evil because they're owned by evil corporations that want to get as much data about us as possible which is probably true but actually seeing them as these innocent beings that want to learn from us and want to get better and want to improve in order to help us, I think is such a lovely way to start looking at this whole new world that we're all entering into and that we have to embrace because it's not going anywhere.

Speaker 2: 48:40

No, 100%, and the idea that they want to get it right. The only reason they get it wrong is because they haven't understood. And the reason they don't understand is because we're not clear. So it actually comes down to us and people who say well, google should understand why Google doesn't understand. Because you're not clear. It's your responsibility to clean up your little corner of the internet. That's what I believe, and if you don't do it, that's fine. It's up to you. But don't expect the machine to understand. You want to take control. If you want to have control, you need to take control today, and taking control today is your best chance of having control or a level of control in the future.

Speaker 2: 49:16

Once these machines have understood what they've understood right or wrong it's going to be really fixed down in their brain. You don't forget as an adult, what you learned as a child. Let's take this opportunity to teach the child while it's still a child, because the child is still learning by simple repetition and corroboration. In the future, it's going to start extrapolating, it's going to take cohorts, it's going to identify incredibly detailed cohorts and start guessing at things about you without you telling it. That's when you need to be and this is the geeky part you need to be in exactly the right cohort in its brain because otherwise it's going to guess wrong. So, philosophically speaking, my perspective here is I've got a good grip on number one. I've got the best grip that I've seen on understanding today and controlling these machines today. But I also have, I hope, or I believe, the best chance of helping my clients control in the future when the machine get really smart. That's obviously way down the road and you can think well, I can worry about that tomorrow.

Speaker 2: 50:22

But think about two years ago. Even a year ago or a year and a half ago, chachi PT wasn't common, so you didn't even think about the conversations. And now you're frustrated that Chachi PT when you ask it. The MySQL query for selecting 15,000 rows from this database very geeky question. The MySQL query for selecting 15,000 rows from this database? Very geeky question. The MySQL query for selecting 50. Why are you repeating it? A year ago I was terribly pleased. I was watching it, it was a lot of fun. Now I'm really frustrated. It just doesn't give me the answer and it shows how quickly we adapt as human beings and how fast these machines are advancing. Chat GPT is suddenly normal In a year's time, potentially. You know we've got they're now creating videos. Potentially it's going to answer you with a video that it's just created on the fly, who knows?

Speaker 2: 51:10

Don't think that you can put off to tomorrow that foundational understanding of these machines. Have you can't, or you shouldn't, and don't leave it to luck. Why would you let Google decide? Oh, I've got a good analogy for that, which is fun as well is would you let your mother pick your clothes to wear when you're going to the high school party? Of course you wouldn't. That's what you're letting Google do. Google picks your clothes. Google's got no taste. If you tell it which clothes you want to wear, it will let you wear them. If you don't tell it, it will pick them for you. It's your mother on the way to the high school party and she really is going to embarrass you yeah, I mean, my mom wasn't actually that bad, because she was always quite a classy dresser, um but yeah, sorry, I'm sorry to your mother, I hope she doesn't watch this and I don't know she, I don't think she does anyway.

Speaker 1: 52:01

but but putting myself, because I'm an empath into the shoes of most of my friends whose mothers would probably create disasters out of them, yeah, that's the perfect analogy and I think the perfect. I could just go on and on with you. You've, absolutely. You've not just blown my mind today, jason, you've like, just as I was putting it back together, you just blow it again. It's like you just keep sticking sticks of dynamite and lighting them up in there, like one of those Acme. You know cartoons, you know the Looney Tunes ones. Is it Acme, the company that always?

Speaker 2: 52:35

had the dynamite. I used to do my reputation management presentations using Acme and having lots of. I did search engine results pages that I made up with Acme stuff. But actually there are lots of companies called Acme so you actually can just copy paste them. But I'll end with one thing which is your personal brand is what Google says it is. Your personal brand is what ChatGPT says it is. Your personal brand is what Bing Copilot says it is. Your personal brand is what ChatGPT says it is. Your personal brand is what Bing Copilot says it is. You're in a situation now when the internet is so omnipresent, so universal. You talk to people directly, but people will still go and Google you. Your personal brand is what Google says it is Full stop, take control today.

Speaker 1: 53:20

Yeah, and I'll second that because, funny enough, a French agency that we do work with just at low level, just to control all Google, my Business stuff, and they said and when I thought about it I was in total agreement because I do it myself most of the time they said, your actual google profile, the information available when someone googles you, is more important than your website. Yeah, in in the context of you know, being too worried about having fancy pictures and all this nonsense, because most people when they google you, I think the statistic at the time was that 60% of people who find you online, if they decide what they like from what they see on Google, they'll hit the call button. They won't even bother going to your website.

Speaker 2: 54:11

Yep, 100%. Yeah, and that's exactly it. People use Google because they trust Google. People use ChatGPT because they trust ChatGPT. They are the biggest influence in the world. They are machines that people are using to solve their problems and they're using a specific machine, a specific assistive engine or search engine, because they trust it, so they're going to trust the result that the machine spits out for you.

Speaker 2: 54:37

And the last thing is a lot of people feel that this is too complicated, that it's out of their control. It's not out of your control and it's not complicated. What I've explained today is all you have to do Entity home consistent corroboration around the web that's clear and factually correct, and you link from your entity home out to all the corroborative sources and from the corroborative sources back to your entity home, to the website. At that point, google, the child, goes from your website to the corroboration, sees the same information, comes back, goes out to the next one, sees the same corroboration, same information, and comes back, so on and so forth, and it learns by repetition. Getting Google to understand who you are, what you do, which audience you serve, which photos to use, which facts to present, which social media profiles it should be showing when somebody searches your name.

Speaker 2: 55:28

All of that is to do is based on your entity, home, your control. It's up to you, and none of this, none of what I just said, is even a little bit geeky. It's simple. Anybody can do it. Don't hesitate, do it now. Yeah, that sounded like an advert, didn't it?

Speaker 1: 55:47

Well, I'm now actually going to do the plug. So that brings me neatly in too. Well, the thing is on CaliCube's website. So calicubecom, k-a-l-i-c-u-b-e, calicubecom, k-a-l-i-c-u-b-e, kallicubecom um, jason and his team have a lot of downloadable resources that you can just go. You know, you don't have to give any money or anything. It's again, he's an educator, that's the ethos of their brand, um, and you can go download and read up on more of this stuff. Um, if you'd like to book a call with jason or any of his team at kallicube, you can go download and read up on more of this stuff.

Speaker 1: 56:22

If you'd like to book a call with Jason or any of his team at Catercube, you can do that at catercubecom as well. Just go, hit the contact button and then you can fill out the form and the lovely people that will get in touch with you. They don't bite. You can even book a 15 minute chat with Jason. Who wouldn't want to? I wouldn't talk to you all over again, and you may. And who wouldn't want to? I wouldn't talk to you all over again, and you may. Yeah, and for any of my audience who have got their own podcast and there are a few of you if you want to book. Jason, I'm guessing you're really getting into guesting on podcasts, because this is also helping to build your digital footprint online credibility in the space of your area of expertise digital marketing isn't it Right?

Speaker 2: 57:04

Yeah, and I'm obsessed by the consistency of that. I've done maybe 200 guest appearances and I'm obsessed by the consistency of that. Every time somebody talks about me on their podcast in the show notes, I make sure my team makes sure that they're saying the same thing that we're saying on the entityity Home. It's a huge job, it's an ongoing job, it's a job that never stops and, as you said, I'm an educator and we share everything on the website. You can do it all for free. Everything we know is out there and it's for free because we understand, number one, that this is universal. Number two, that it's valuable and hugely powerful and important. And, number three, I can't serve 6 billion people. What I can do is help the people who understand that their time has immense value to them and their business, and they can pass over the responsibility, the time, the frustration and the skill set to me and my team and we will do it more effectively, more efficiently, more profitably, we'll get more leverage and we'll take all of the weight off your shoulders.

Speaker 2: 58:08

You don't need to think about it. Not everybody has the money to pay for that. It's a question of time or money. If you've got more time, go and do it for free. Download the free guides it's free. Read them, implement them, do it yourself, I'm absolutely happy. Guides it's free. Read them, implement them, do it yourself. I'm absolutely happy because, like with Buwan Kuala we were talking earlier on, I want to help. I really truly want to help and that's my foundational. It's what I've always done, it's who I am, it's who I've always been and it makes me happy. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 58:41

Couldn't think of a better way to end Brilliant. You'd be like like if we were at a gathering and then it was time to go and you'd be the one person. It'd be like my wife would be like you said you were going like two hours ago You'll still take talking to Jason and I was just like, yeah, can we just stay a bit longer? Um, jason, thank you so so much, have you had fun today I did.

Speaker 2: 59:03

It was brilliant. I really loved it because it was my team have told me to stop talking so much about the future and today I felt I was allowed to because you integrated the future into the present and into the practical. So we talked a lot about the future. We talked a lot about geeky machines that people are using but don don't really think about enough. But we weaved in or you helped me weave want.

Speaker 2: 59:26

You have to walk the walk with your audience, so you have to be standing where they're looking. You have to demonstrate your credibility to them. You have to provide the solution to them wherever they're hanging out online YouTube, linkedin, forbes, taylorcom, whatever that might be. If you're walking the walk, the machines will simply replicate what they're seeing. You do satisfying, helping, engaging with your audience. So the machines become an extension of your personal brand, which you're running incredibly or you're building incredibly powerfully with your audience. And I'll leave you with a number 80% of CaliCube's business comes not from Google, because we're walking the walk on YouTube, linkedin, forbescom, search Engine, land and our own website. 80% of the business we get comes from that work, which is with human beings facing with human beings. Google simply replicates it and gives us a bonus of 20% Brilliant. Oh, and it confirms at the bottom of the funnel when somebody's engaged with us on YouTube, they search my name. They see the Google search result. They don't visit the site, they just book the meeting. And that's brilliant, because they trust Google.

Speaker 1: 1:00:52

And I can second that, sorry. Usually when I say, have you had fun today, don't worry, because that was absolutely freaking brilliant and you complimented me as well, thank you, and you were right in absolutely everything that you said, um, and then I do my outro. But, um, I will second what you just said because actually, since we started so, I took the dust covers off our YouTube channel about a year ago. I'm so proud because I've now got 388 subscribers, um, and then we started to feed the podcast out to YouTube as well, and I was shocked at how many people listen to audio only versions of podcasts on YouTube, and now we've started to put the video versions out as well. But that's exactly it.

Speaker 1: 1:01:35

So 80% of our business is repeat referral recommendation from our existing audience. The other 20 20 is the bonus stuff. Like you say, when I'm like oh, my god, I'm so busy this week I haven't followed up with anyone, I haven't called some of my clients to find out if they need me this summer, yeah, but we just get bonus appointments like every single day, and when I talk to them, I say to them how did you find me? And it's, it's always something like I can't remember exactly where? But I follow you on YouTube, I watch your Instagram reels and then I think eventually I probably just googled you, and then that's, that's how we ended up here today.

Speaker 2: 1:02:09

what Bing, yeah and I think what Bing and Google, what you just said is actually really powerful in the sense that how many I get the same thing?

Speaker 2: 1:02:20

people say I'm on this meeting because I've researched the topic of knowledge panels. I've researched the topic of personal branding on Google. I've researched the topic of entity optimization on Google. Your name and that red shirt just keep appearing. You're obviously the guy for this. I'm on the meeting because you are omnipresent, because you're always there. I'm on the meeting because you are omnipresent, because you're always there. Nobody says I searched once on Google for how do I manage my personal brand. I clicked on your link and I booked a meeting. That never happens. Google isn't a platform that will send you the convinced client just from one search, but it is part of the journey and if you consider it as part of the journey, you're winning all the way because you'll get that 80-20 split and that is great business, great personal branding, and it works and it's timeless.

Speaker 1: 1:03:13

Yeah, because I always get people that you know rather cynically they'll be like are you still doing the podcast? Because they know I started it during the pandemic as another way to try and get into the ears of my clients that had all bought dogs and were walking them but wouldn't pick up the phone and um, and I say to them, yeah, I'm still doing a podcast. We're like 160, 170 episodes in or something and how's that going? Do you make any money out of it? All right? Well, yes and no, because I don't make money out of it per se. If that's, you're just looking at it from a brutalistic. You spend time on that. Does it produce revenue? No, it bloody doesn't. But it's part of a multifaceted, because I don't know what.

Speaker 1: 1:03:55

I don't know how people connect with me and how they stay tuned in to me and how they keep me front of mind. Some people it's because they listen to the podcast. Some of our clients it's a newsletter that goes out on Fridays. Some people it's a YouTube channel now. Some people it's my Instagram reels. Some people rely on me to pick up the phone and call them the old-fashioned way every six months. You just don't know. We're all different. We all connect with each other differently. We all stay connected in different ways, we all engage in different ways, and it is just part of a multifaceted approach to just trying to connect with people.

Speaker 1: 1:04:30

Coming from a place of wanting to help people Because, like you, I can't help every single person on the planet there are people who do value their time and have got the money to use someone like me to take care of all of their headaches. With you, it's digital marketing. With me it's clothing and image, etc. Etc. There are people who don't have the money to use me, would love to work with me, but they can't, um, and I can't because of, you know, obvious business principle type stuff. Um, but at least if I can help them with any of the content I'm creating, whether it's the podcast episode like this and you have been the most wonderful guest today thank you so, so much whether it's a video I create on youtube, it's an instagram short or an article that I write.

Speaker 1: 1:05:17

If I've helped one person with that piece of content, it was worth doing and that's how I content. It was worth doing and that's how I try to live my life, and I know that's how you live yours and that's why I was excited to have you on the show today. I'm so glad that we've met and connected. You are a special individual and I hope we keep in touch, and I hope everyone listening today reaches out, connects with you, follows you, seeks you out, because you are truly what you say. You are, you're the number one, you are the master of your art and the number of people that you're having an impact on has got to be phenomenal. I hope it is so. Thank you Wow.

Speaker 2: 1:05:57

That was brilliant. I love that. That makes me feel terribly, terribly pleased. I'm now jigging around like a like a child.

Speaker 1: 1:06:05

How do I now now sing me a song, jason? No, I'm kidding, I won't. I won't make you do that, I'd bring goodbye to and the show.

Speaker 1: 1:06:12

Thank you, roberto oh see, I can do the usual outro. Make sure you connect with Jason Really really important. If you know anybody who could get some help from what Jason taught us today, make sure you hit that share link and send this on to that person. And to connect with Jason, follow all the links that I'm going to put into the show notes and if you want to support the show, you can hit the support show support the show link in the show notes. And if you want to support the show, you can hit the support show support the show link in the show notes. Have a great week, be good to each other and I'll catch you on the next one.