Belonging in the Workplace with Krystal Clark

Season 4 of We Admit! kicks off with a candid conversation with Krystal Clark, Director of Employee Learning and Engagement at Vanderbilt University. Through her energetic honesty and optimism, Krystal equips employees and leaders to thrive by focusing on their strengths, highlighting what makes them uniquely capable for their roles. 

Transcript

00;00;00;10 - 00;00;14;15
Janice Crampton
This is We Admit! by AISAP, the podcast where we share true stories from admission and enrollment professionals. I'm your host, Janice Crampton, executive Director and CEO.

00;00;14;17 - 00;00;44;16
Janice Crampton
Have you ever met someone and immediately wanted them to be your friend? Well, this happened to me when I met Krystal Clark when she presented as a member of the Asup Leadership for Enrollment and Admission Professionals program. We call it LEAP are 2023 2024 cohort was mesmerized by her charismatic nature and her mincing no words style as she highlighted the results of each of our Clifton strengths identified skills and attributes.

00;00;44;18 - 00;01;05;09
Janice Crampton
I'm honored to have Krystal join me today on the We Admit podcast because not only do I hope to learn from her and grow from her and through her, but I also think we're going to have a heck of a lot of fun. So join me today on this episode of We Admit.

00;01;05;12 - 00;01;31;24
Janice Crampton
You know, Krystal, you and I really have only spent, what, an hour and a half together. And I immediately was drawn to your energy and your charisma and and really your your message. And I guess I'd love to just start with have you been like this all your life or how did you grow into this?

00;01;31;26 - 00;01;54;27
Krystal Clark
You may have to ask some other people about the younger, younger years. However, I believe so. From what other people will tell me, and I am my mother's daughter through and through. And so if you meet my mother, it will make sense for you to understand how I am, who I am in the world. She has incredibly warm energy.

00;01;54;28 - 00;02;20;08
Krystal Clark
She speaks to everyone. You both say good morning to her. She is super inviting, wants to make sure everyone is fed and welcomed and included. She makes treat match for everyone at the holidays. She is the perfect role mom. And so she has that that thing about her. But she's also real tough, like super tough single parent raise her two kids.

00;02;20;10 - 00;02;44;21
Krystal Clark
And she is she's a strong woman and she's a mama bear. So if you mess with that, she got some on your hands, you know what I mean? But as long as you are on her good side, you are in such a beautiful, warm, loving, non-judgmental place. She just always feels like there's enough sunshine for everyone. She was everyone's mom in school, you know, She was that mom.

00;02;44;23 - 00;02;56;05
Krystal Clark
And they were more happy to see her than me. So. So. So that I think that's where I come from. And so I think that's what you experience when you meet me is a lot of her.

00;02;56;08 - 00;03;20;01
Janice Crampton
Yeah. And in the spirit of also that element and aspect of like right side, wrong side of a person, here's the other thing that I've grown to, to recognize as someone who's been referred to as a mama bear is that my mother used to say, if I didn't love you, I'd let you grow up and be right. That idea notion of I care, I care deeply for you.

00;03;20;01 - 00;03;26;05
Janice Crampton
And and because of that, I hold you to a particular standard or expectation.

00;03;26;07 - 00;03;26;29
Krystal Clark
Right.

00;03;27;01 - 00;03;27;13
Janice Crampton
Right.

00;03;27;16 - 00;03;48;00
Krystal Clark
Absolutely. And so a couple of years ago, we used to run Ted through my office and there was a speaker, a wonderful woman, and she said, Crystal, you are a warm demander. And I was like, What is that? She's like, I know that you care about me. I know that you love me. I know that you want me to win.

00;03;48;04 - 00;04;08;27
Krystal Clark
She was like, You let me know exactly what I need to be doing, what I'm doing incorrectly. But she's like, the foundation is there that I know that you love me, right? And I know that you are caring for me all the way. But like, here's the feedback that you need to hear right now to really help you show up well on stage.

00;04;08;29 - 00;04;21;13
Krystal Clark
And I really took that in and believe that that really does characterize a lot of my style of how I live my life and how I lead of heart supervise just, you know, everything about me.

00;04;21;17 - 00;04;42;10
Janice Crampton
Yeah. Do you find that that's an element and aspect, let's say, in various interviewing situations with employees that you almost need to manage expectation because there are employee employee relationships where someone may not be able to respond in a in a good way or in a productive way because of that.

00;04;42;13 - 00;05;12;22
Krystal Clark
No, absolutely. And for the most part, I would say that I'm able to discern in that environment will be good for them. And I'm also really great at saying, here's why I'm thinking the way that I'm thinking, here's why I'm responding, the way that I respond day. And I would think that anyone that works for me would say that they know that I'm in their corner.

00;05;12;24 - 00;05;35;25
Krystal Clark
I am an advocate for them. They know that if anyone does anything wrong to my team, it's a problem. It is a problem that I don't deal well with that. So I think for me it's about in the interview process. I do think through, you know, I try to get a sense of their personality. I try to get into their sense of humor.

00;05;35;28 - 00;05;58;21
Krystal Clark
And I also am pretty articulate about this is kind of how I generally supervise. I totally believe in individualization, but this is generally how I am as a human. Tell me about that lag and how do you respond to that? And even if they're saying all the right things, I can often tell about the things that are not being said, whether or not it's actually going to work.

00;05;58;24 - 00;06;19;11
Janice Crampton
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. And I also think from what you've shared, too, and again, for many of the people that listen to this podcast and long for it, which has been, you know, really an eye opener, Beth and I were just talking a little bit ago about the fact that this podcast with you is the launch of our season.

00;06;19;14 - 00;06;45;08
Janice Crampton
Okay. Yeah. So your intro in the season, we we could not think of a better person and in, in all sincerity, we could not think of a better person. But where I'm going with all of this is that many of the listeners are individuals who are wondering, who are pondering, who are struggling with their let's call it managerial style or leadership style.

00;06;45;10 - 00;07;05;25
Janice Crampton
And I think that what I'm also hearing you say and have heard, you also talk about is that there needs to be an identification of one's own skill sets and one's own strengths and weaknesses before you even think about, you know, what's that? What's that? When you're on a plane, breathe yourself before you help.

00;07;05;25 - 00;07;08;05
Krystal Clark
Your mask enters on.

00;07;08;05 - 00;07;15;27
Janice Crampton
Right? Right. And so like, what are your thoughts and my kind of thinking in the right way or, you know, of course, correct me here.

00;07;15;29 - 00;07;38;23
Krystal Clark
And I think you're on the right path. You know, that self-awareness has to be number one, and it really has to be about you really understanding you. I think a lot of us grow up modeling other people's leadership style. A model, other people's style of supervision. And I totally get that because you don't know, you don't know yourself, you don't know what's right and wrong.

00;07;38;25 - 00;07;58;11
Krystal Clark
No one really teaches you how to be a great supervisor when you're in school or anything. You are really learning trial by fire that is on the job training every single day. And so I think that you have to start there with not only developing an awareness of who you are, but coming to a sense of acceptance of who you are.

00;07;58;13 - 00;08;21;09
Krystal Clark
Right? And developing a sense of confidence around who you are. I think all of that is very important. And I think a lot of us in society today, we do feel like we need to be somebody else to be successful. We feel like we need to be somebody else to be chosen. Right. So and instead of saying like, no, you know, great for them, I'm glad that they are that way.

00;08;21;09 - 00;08;46;03
Krystal Clark
But this is really how I show up as a supervisor, and I'm going to be very clear about that and then work with people as I need to to have that push and pull back in any relationship. You know, every relationship, every relationship requires compromise and reciprocity so that happens in your work relationship as well. But it's really important to always know what it's like to sit on the other side of you.

00;08;46;06 - 00;09;04;29
Krystal Clark
It's important to know that and then decide what you want to do with that information. And some of us will say it is what it is, and some of us will say, Wow, I don't think I realize that. Let me do what I need to do to actually be the person and show up as the person that I want to in the workplace.

00;09;05;04 - 00;09;06;22
Janice Crampton
Have you always known.

00;09;06;25 - 00;09;07;10
Krystal Clark
What.

00;09;07;10 - 00;09;14;28
Janice Crampton
You or who you were and what you wanted to show up as?

00;09;15;00 - 00;09;15;22
Janice Crampton
I think I've.

00;09;15;22 - 00;09;48;03
Krystal Clark
Always had a sense of clarity and I think I realized very early on that I'm I'm not the best at changing because I think I was who I was. And like, I was never great in theater classes. I was never great at acting. You know, when I was in, I took one theater class in college and I tried to act a couple of times and I was abysmal at it.

00;09;48;05 - 00;10;03;28
Krystal Clark
And my mom was like, Because all you want to do is be yourself. And I was like, Perhaps that is I've never been able to do that well, because I never really saw the point of it in my existence.

00;10;04;00 - 00;10;09;25
Janice Crampton
So in essence, if you are were to be on the stage, it would be a one woman act.

00;10;09;27 - 00;10;32;16
Krystal Clark
And it would be me. And but that's the the story of Crystal. And I think that's what when I'm public speaking, you know, whether I'm giving keynotes or facilitating, you know, the workshop that you were in with me, it is really crystal. And, you know, I think sometimes I had a friend say to me, she was like, you know, you got to be a little bit more corporate.

00;10;32;16 - 00;10;44;02
Krystal Clark
And I said, Really? Because that's not going to work for me. And I will tell you that I've been in some very corporate button up places and they they need to be shaken up.

00;10;44;05 - 00;10;44;25
Janice Crampton
Oh, yeah.

00;10;44;27 - 00;10;47;10
Janice Crampton
Oh, so long.

00;10;47;13 - 00;11;01;04
Krystal Clark
And many of them enjoy it that there's a different sort of energy there and it's not your typical h.r. Button up. So, you know, once i get going there, there is no facade. It is just all crystal.

00;11;01;09 - 00;11;28;28
Janice Crampton
Well, it's not only that, you know, i again, in this bit of a moment, right, It's not only it's not only clear to me, here's the here's the plan. It's crystal clear to me. It's like you're probably like, oh, Lord. But no, it's it's this idea notion of of there's freedom in this authenticity, right? It's just like I'm not I'm not putting on, as you said, the facade and and you're comfortable with maybe some people.

00;11;28;28 - 00;11;43;14
Janice Crampton
I oftentimes use the phrase a particular flavor of ice cream like I'm not for everybody. But when you know. Right. And so when you're when you find comfort, right. When you find comfort in like so.

00;11;43;16 - 00;12;10;10
Krystal Clark
I will say that there's freedom in that. And one of the issues that I think we're dealing with a lot is people's wellbeing in the workplace. There is my wellbeing and me being my full self are very intertwined and so I was on a panel the other day and I told them, I said, you know, you have to choose your self to save yourself.

00;12;10;12 - 00;12;35;17
Krystal Clark
So it is so much more important for me to be crystal as opposed to living in some sort of a mask and that weighing on my mental health and my wellbeing and weighing on that. Just the belief that I have in myself that I'm not enough or I don't belong here. I have to act like somebody else. I have to fully digest and own and claim and use that I am enough just as I am.

00;12;35;23 - 00;12;57;08
Krystal Clark
I deserve to be here. I've done the work to be here, just this crystal. And I think, you know, as a woman, that can be difficult sometimes as a black woman, that can be difficult sometimes in very predominantly white spaces. As a woman who's often been one of the youngest in the room, that can be difficult. But you have to say to yourself, you are telling a very unique story.

00;12;57;08 - 00;13;05;00
Krystal Clark
You are living a very unique story. You are leading a very unique story, and you're here for a reason. And so this is what I'm going to do. I have to do it as me have.

00;13;05;01 - 00;13;06;10
Janice Crampton
Do you have have to choose?

00;13;06;10 - 00;13;07;22
Krystal Clark
Crystal? I have to.

00;13;07;25 - 00;13;13;27
Janice Crampton
And I think that by you doing that, it gives others permission to yourselves. And again.

00;13;13;28 - 00;13;14;04
Krystal Clark
It's an.

00;13;14;04 - 00;13;18;11
Janice Crampton
Invitation. An invitation, you know, as we look back on the.

00;13;18;11 - 00;13;19;14
Krystal Clark
Many.

00;13;19;16 - 00;13;59;12
Janice Crampton
Markers of success of which, you know, there's the markers of success that are indicated through one's bio, right? One's LinkedIn profile, one's reds are may. Right. And there's we know there's many more. But, you know, again, as I as I was looking more into, let's call it the imprint that I was once again very I was struck by as well as impressed by but I was struck by, as you noted just a moment ago, that you have been in situations that someone might say, wow, I'm surprised.

00;13;59;14 - 00;14;25;27
Janice Crampton
You know, I think back on being the first black president of the Junior League of Nashville. You know, I bet you stirred up a couple of things because. Right. I mean, there's a couple of again, like, yeah, this does not seem as you know, as someone who's been in the junior League and then suddenly felt because again, I was a working mom that that people were going, wait, hold it.

00;14;25;28 - 00;14;47;15
Janice Crampton
Oh, yeah, we, we, we, we work from the home and there's no judgment here. I'm just, you know, stating the profile. But that experience and then again, working in so many philanthropic ways with the Children's Hospital and you mentioned the theater and yet you were the board of directors of the Belcourt Theater, you know, so needless to say, you're a lover of.

00;14;47;15 - 00;15;10;28
Janice Crampton
But yeah, yeah, but did you find that you had to necessarily not push yourself into those situations, but what were those situations afforded to you? Because you, you, you reached out and said, I'm interested or were people reaching out to you? I mean, tell me a little bit about how you let's call it, landed in these places.

00;15;11;00 - 00;15;33;06
Krystal Clark
I think it was a little bit of a mixture. And I will always give credit to people along the way who looked like me and didn't look like me, who said you should do this. And we're supportive in that. You know, I never thought I would be generally the national president. I never thought that I was you know, that was 96 years it took to get a black president.

00;15;33;06 - 00;15;34;28
Janice Crampton
96 years.

00;15;34;28 - 00;15;36;04
Krystal Clark
Yeah, 96 years.

00;15;36;04 - 00;15;36;21
Janice Crampton
Yeah.

00;15;36;24 - 00;16;01;00
Krystal Clark
However, I showed up as my overly enthusiastic, overly engaged volunteer self. I showed up as someone who always had ideas, who always raise her hand. You know, I did more community projects and anybody else than to have it go to all the meetings and get really into the conversations. And and I'm pretty friendly, right? So I would meet people and then ask people out to lunch.

00;16;01;02 - 00;16;09;20
Krystal Clark
But it was an effort to get to presidency. I just was trying to be a good member of the organization and to, you know, get my money's worth. I just remember.

00;16;09;27 - 00;16;12;07
Janice Crampton
That's right. That's right.

00;16;12;09 - 00;16;30;21
Krystal Clark
But along the way, there are people who see you, right? And I remember I had the current president at the time that I sort of joined said, I want to take you out to lunch. She looked at me and she said, Who are you? She's like, You came out of nowhere and you're everywhere. And she looked like, So what do you want to do?

00;16;30;28 - 00;16;52;06
Krystal Clark
And she helped me to start to plot my path. And I need that. You need people like that in your life. And to be open to that sort of assistance I think is so important. Later on, as I'm making my way through leadership ranks and really doing things in the organization that I actually care about, I wasn't just jumping on random committees.

00;16;52;06 - 00;17;09;24
Krystal Clark
I was doing the things that I was very passionate about in that organization and I was saying no to things that I wasn't passionate about. Within that organization. I became eligible for president and I had another friend call me and she was like, You're going to apply for this, right? And I said, Well, and I even said it to myself.

00;17;09;24 - 00;17;27;00
Krystal Clark
I said, Well, I feel like I'm a little young, right? Because at the time I was one of the youngest as well that ever did it. And I said, I also work a full time job. Right. And a lot of our presidents, we're not working. And I said, I don't have that privilege. It's just me paying these bills right?

00;17;27;02 - 00;17;54;03
Krystal Clark
And she was like, No, you've got to do it. And I applied and, you know, was afforded the honor of that position. And it was one of the greatest privileges of my existence, honestly, to be a part of that organization and to start to set a precedent. Since then, we've had multiple nonwhite presidents, and the diversity and the inclusion within our organization has grown tremendously.

00;17;54;09 - 00;18;13;10
Krystal Clark
It's beautiful to now go back as a sustained year and see, oh my gosh, look at how these people these folks weren't here before, you know? And so it's but but it's been a mixture of I'm going after it and people saying, hey, you you seem like you like to get stuff done and people like you. So can you do this, too?

00;18;13;12 - 00;18;21;16
Krystal Clark
And so I think you need both in the world, honestly. And I think you need to be a person who's willing to say yes to some things.

00;18;21;19 - 00;18;24;29
Janice Crampton
Mm hmm. What do you say no to.

00;18;25;01 - 00;18;26;08
Krystal Clark
A lot these days?

00;18;26;08 - 00;18;28;08
Janice Crampton
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00;18;28;11 - 00;18;48;05
Krystal Clark
I'm a little tired in so many ways. I think I say no to anything that doesn't suit my values. Like, it's not in alignment with my core. Anything that when I sit down and think about it, I'm like, Oh, I would I could be very embarrassed by this, you know, or, or it honestly, it could embarrass my family.

00;18;48;05 - 00;19;16;26
Krystal Clark
And I have no like, my family is a huge part of my value system. Anything that I think is not inclusive or not trying to be inclusive right. And at this point, I am so aware of my capacity that I, I embrace the pause in life, you see. And I do take a deep breath. I used to I would answer emails like yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

00;19;16;28 - 00;19;36;08
Krystal Clark
Ask when I was younger. And now I'm like, I'll let them know. Let me sleep on it. Let me take a night. Look at the calendar because I just don't want to get caught up in something for no reason. And I don't always have to be the person at the table. There could be somebody else who'd be much better.

00;19;36;10 - 00;19;52;22
Krystal Clark
And I know a lot of amazing people in this town that I'm like, Have you asked her have you asked him? Maybe you should ask her. It doesn't have to be me. And I think that comes with a set of maturity and also her moving beyond that sense of scarcity mindset. Or we think there's room, you know, only room for one, right?

00;19;52;22 - 00;19;56;18
Krystal Clark
And I have to be the one. And I'm really beyond that right now.

00;19;56;21 - 00;20;26;25
Janice Crampton
You know, it's funny again, to our listeners, we you and I were having a conversation right before we hit the record button about speed, about pace, because again, I completely relate to what you're saying with regard to pace about things. And when you have so much going on and when you have the capacity to manage a lot or multiple projects at the same time, what's that phrase?

00;20;26;25 - 00;21;06;13
Janice Crampton
There's no such thing as being able to really multitask. But again, we try. But where I'm going with this is the idea notion of I can tell when I'm out of balance, I can tell. And that that realization has been kind of new to me, right? And within sort of this past year of of knowing that when I am out of balance, not only am I making clerical errors, but I'm also physically and mentally just not my best self, and to give my self the permission to say, whoa, stop, you know, drink more water or, you know.

00;21;06;15 - 00;21;08;15
Janice Crampton
Up for a while, Right.

00;21;08;15 - 00;21;30;05
Krystal Clark
You know, go work out. You know, I have I, you know, I've started playing golf recently. You have? I have. And like you know, I get it. I get it. You know, we always sort of make fun of men who were, like, out playing golf for hours. But I'm like, oh, I get it. I totally get it. I get you are outside, you're in nature.

00;21;30;08 - 00;21;51;29
Krystal Clark
You're doing this challenging thing that's taking your brain to a new place. I'm not trying to be, you know, on the LPGA, so who cares if I'm bad at it? It has been such a great mental and physical gift to my existence to try to go out there and hit this little white ball.

00;21;52;01 - 00;22;22;11
Janice Crampton
So my husband, my husband prior to marriage was a big time golfer and he would ask about this, you know, single digit handicap and so on and so on and yeah, ooh, baby, baby. And and yet he is very quick to say that marrying me ruined his game. And at first I was like, Oh my gosh. But I do know that one day, that one moment when I think I ruined it because he was getting ready to go golfing and I said, What time will you be home?

00;22;22;13 - 00;22;47;10
Janice Crampton
And he goes, Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Because he's like, You do, right? You don't rush through golf. You don't have a time span. You take as long as you need, right? Let it flow. And so meanwhile, I'm like, well, no, I mean, tick tock. We got we've got things to do, you know, we've got things to do so well, good for you for finding that outlet.

00;22;47;10 - 00;23;20;08
Janice Crampton
Mine has been discovering yoga and really enjoying it and, and again, permission to not see it as you know, I can't do a downward dog without a pain in my, you know, hamstring or whatever. But, but also crochet and my joke about the crochet I know here it doesn't that sound very nana like which I'm a little but the crochet challenge is I only had know how to do one stitch and so we have more like strips in the house, you know, or, or like lots of socks.

00;23;20;08 - 00;23;46;01
Janice Crampton
Very thin stars, actually. Exactly. So again, my wonderful husband's like, so how do you make other anything else other than, you know, throws. So yeah. So again, finding something that you love, sticking with it and being willing to maybe try some new things, that's that's a good one. That's a really good one. You know, we, we oftentimes, again, think about the the journeys that we've been on.

00;23;46;04 - 00;24;01;03
Janice Crampton
Would you mind just again, we can read the imprint, but can you describe your professional, your professional journey and from the perspective of what brought you to one thing to the next to the next? You know?

00;24;01;05 - 00;24;21;11
Krystal Clark
Yeah. So I got started in Student Affairs because I was obsessed with college. I am a first generation college student. And so when I went to William and Mary, which is only an hour away from my house, I literally felt like I was in a whole different world. And it became my heaven. I just loved it. And so, I mean, I, I still love it.

00;24;21;11 - 00;24;45;09
Krystal Clark
I still think about how beautiful the campus is and all the people that I met and the opportunities. It just set me up really well in life and such a great decision for me. And I'm so thankful that my family was supportive of me going to William and Mary in so many ways. And so there are all these lovely people on campus who were helping this first generation college student navigate the chaos of college.

00;24;45;12 - 00;24;54;21
Krystal Clark
And I decided I wanted to be one of those people. And I didn't know that was a profession. I thought they were just like really nice second grade teachers who decided to work in a college all.

00;24;54;23 - 00;24;57;22
Janice Crampton
Oh, that's so funny.

00;24;57;25 - 00;25;19;19
Krystal Clark
And so then I just reached out to them and said, Hey, how do I do what you do? And they were more than happy to invest in me in that way and went to graduate school, which was fantastic, went to the University of Maryland. But now you have to understand, my mother has never been on a plane and so anything within Virginia is very manageable for her.

00;25;19;19 - 00;25;43;20
Krystal Clark
But anything outside of Virginia feels like a lot. And I was like, Mom, the school is only 3 hours away. If that's it, then she's like, when it's over state lines. I was like, I don't care. I'm going, Yeah. But in that moment as a because at that point I had only been on a plane maybe once. My world had been very small.

00;25;43;22 - 00;25;56;17
Krystal Clark
So I had to say to myself, How am I going to get to Maryland for my interviews? So I was like, I'm going to get on the train them all. Like, You're going to get on the train. I was like, Yes, I'm going to get on the trains. I bought my Amtrak ticket. My roommate dropped me off the train station.

00;25;56;17 - 00;26;11;09
Krystal Clark
I went to the on the train. And then when I got to Maryland, they have a metro in Maryland. Well, this Virginia girl had never been on a metro before, so I was shaking in my boots. Well, my buddy at Maryland said, it's all colors. Just follow the colors.

00;26;11;12 - 00;26;14;25
Janice Crampton
Only go on things that have blue. Right? Right.

00;26;14;25 - 00;26;26;10
Krystal Clark
Yeah. You're right on the green line to stay on the green line. And that's how I got to graduate school for my initial interview and for my assistantship interview, which paid for me to go to school.

00;26;26;12 - 00;26;27;07
Janice Crampton
Right.

00;26;27;10 - 00;26;46;22
Krystal Clark
But I think part of that lesson is for anyone that's listening, you've got to do some stuff, is outside of your comfort zone and you got to do some things that take you beyond sort of the bubble that you grew up in. Right. Like I can say it in Virginia my whole life and then an hour away from my mom, and that would have been okay.

00;26;46;22 - 00;27;01;02
Krystal Clark
I'm not judging that, but I would have missed out on a whole lot of crystal and a whole lot of life. If I had said, Oh, I have no way to get to Maryland cause I didn't have a car, you know, like, I didn't have no money for plane tickets. And but the train was very affordable back then, so.

00;27;01;02 - 00;27;03;07
Janice Crampton
Right. That's exactly right. Yeah.

00;27;03;10 - 00;27;29;16
Krystal Clark
So I went to graduate school and took a very nontraditional job to pay for graduate school. I lived in a fraternity house for two years. I live with 34 students each year, 34 men of a fraternity. My address is number two, fraternity row. Now you want to talk about doing something unconventional? Certainly. That was unconventional. It was me and 34 of them.

00;27;29;18 - 00;27;50;17
Krystal Clark
And I was not even a sorority woman at the time. Right. But I took on that role because it was a challenge financially. It was incredible. And I knew that within that house I was going to learn a whole lot about the college student and how to apply my work to being a college student. And I also knew that I grew up with a brother.

00;27;50;17 - 00;27;54;05
Krystal Clark
I was pretty tough. And so I could I could do that.

00;27;54;10 - 00;27;56;25
Janice Crampton
You could have 35 of them.

00;27;56;27 - 00;28;29;19
Krystal Clark
Oh, my gosh. Right. And there was 100 people in the chapter 34. I live in the house. And so you just we just never knew how many were going to be in a house at the time. And that assistantship taught me quite a bit. But I think it taught me a lot about what I can handle and how I can relate to all sorts of people from all sorts of backgrounds and how a lot of college students just need someone to talk to who's going to like really listen to them, and that the things that I love, right, Because I fell in love with, you know, equity, diversity and inclusion work.

00;28;29;19 - 00;28;48;04
Krystal Clark
I fell in love with leadership work. I could do those things within that house all day long. Right. And I could do those things with trains for life all day long. I got really into women's leadership development. I got to a bunch of stuff with our sororities on campus. So I took on that job and everyone was like, You are crazy.

00;28;48;04 - 00;29;08;06
Krystal Clark
Like, are you? How can My brother was like, You're going to live where? But it was one of the best things I've ever done. I'm still in contact with so many of those young men, and they've grown into full adults with families and wonderful careers. And it's a beautiful thing to sort of, you know, have that sort of connection with them, that space and time.

00;29;08;09 - 00;29;32;22
Krystal Clark
Well, I thought I was going to be a diversity professional. I was that's what I was going to do that, too. My mentor had been an undergrad, but then I started thinking about what are the needs, right? And I started thinking about being someone who was looking for gaps and how I could fill those gaps. And in fraternity and sorority life as a whole, there was a huge gap when it came to diversity work.

00;29;32;24 - 00;29;51;08
Krystal Clark
There was a huge gap when it came to leadership work. There was a huge gap of unaffiliated people who were working in fraternities for real life students and really helping to be champions of that experience. Right. And I thought to myself, why am I going to go where people already are? I want to do this work where it's needed?

00;29;51;08 - 00;30;15;10
Krystal Clark
And so I decided to swing my career search to exclusively fraternity and sorority life and go and do all of these things that I love and care about with the community that desperately needed and still needs a lot of that work that led me to do for four years, working with the fraternities sorority community there, which was lovely.

00;30;15;13 - 00;30;36;04
Krystal Clark
And then, you know, your life is sort of run by other people when it comes to time. Up until a certain point, you know, this is how long you stay in high school. My mom was my alarm clock. This is how long you stay and go. And then all of a sudden you have your first job and you become the timekeeper.

00;30;36;07 - 00;30;54;18
Krystal Clark
And that no one had ever sort of made that apparent to me that I was going to be the one to decide it unless I was fired. How long I stayed at my first job and stay there for four years. And I was like, Well, you know, I'm working at Duke. That's a big deal that who leaves Duke?

00;30;54;18 - 00;31;17;27
Krystal Clark
This is I've made it, you know what I mean? And I remember going out with a colleague for lunch and letting him know that I was feeling some some dissatisfaction, but I didn't really know what to do about it because why would I ever leave here? I can't leave. That would be like, why would I leave? And he was very clear in saying to me, he was like, I'm so happy that you are so dedicated and so loyal to do.

00;31;17;29 - 00;31;42;09
Krystal Clark
But he was like, Your employer does not have to have the same dedication and loyalty to you at any time. Duke can say, Thank you for your service. Please move on. Right? And you have to own that. You have the same agency and you can't sit around you. You can't sit around thinking that you'll never be able to do any better because there could be better out there for you.

00;31;42;11 - 00;31;53;24
Krystal Clark
Right. And so your your your quest is to find that. And I needed that conversation to invite me to say, okay, I'm leaving.

00;31;53;26 - 00;32;17;21
Janice Crampton
Have you ever wondered how you stack up? I mean, truly stack up between where you are in your career, your salary, your office size, maybe even how you stack up as a school in the context of other schools that are like yours? Well, Asup has a way to solve that problem. It's through our Pathways benchmarking, salary and survey tool.

00;32;17;23 - 00;32;52;00
Janice Crampton
We hope that you participated because it certainly is part of your membership, but if you haven't finished this survey, there's still time. So make sure to hunt out that email that we sent to you. Or if you didn't get that email, reach out to us at info at ASAP, dawg, and we'll make sure that you have the tools in order for you to know your pathway, know your journey, and be part of an overall research tool that is by and for admission and enrollment professionals.

00;32;52;03 - 00;33;14;06
Janice Crampton
There's something that you just said that I know will resonate with a number of people. We oftentimes here, I oftentimes hear people in this profession who perhaps came to where they are at a particular school because their children went there or they have a connection or for many day schools, it's because, you know, they live in that general zip code.

00;33;14;06 - 00;33;38;19
Janice Crampton
And then there becomes this again, as you you so beautifully stated or described it, there's this unsettledness, right. I describe it as the bell rings. All of a sudden the bell rings and you go, I'm ready. I'm ready for something else. And I don't know what it is. And so often there is, again, likening to something that you just said, there's this almost am I a traitor?

00;33;38;24 - 00;34;09;20
Janice Crampton
Right? Am I? Am I? Am I? You know, am I showing a misalignment or miss allegiance to And then I owe it to this school to stay here. What would people say? And and I think what you've just described here is really important for us to to pause on that. It's not that, again, if I'm hearing you correctly, it's not that your school doesn't appreciate you.

00;34;09;23 - 00;34;25;21
Janice Crampton
It's not that your school doesn't value you. But for us to hold dear to something when in fact they potentially aren't going to be as endearing to you is a misstep. Did I capture that properly?

00;34;25;24 - 00;34;37;06
Krystal Clark
You capture that perfectly? Yeah. And I think you can also, because I see this a lot in my work now in human resources, there's almost a resentment that starts to arise.

00;34;37;08 - 00;34;40;01
Janice Crampton
Yes Oh, gosh, absolutely.

00;34;40;03 - 00;35;05;00
Krystal Clark
And then it's hard to bring your best self to the workplace because no matter how hard you try that feeling starts to show up in your actions and your conversations and how you're working with your stakeholders or your customers, however you define that term, how you work with your colleagues, it all starts to come out and that's not a great day at work.

00;35;05;00 - 00;35;06;06
Krystal Clark
When that starts, that.

00;35;06;06 - 00;35;22;16
Janice Crampton
Is that is not a great day at work. And there's another phrase that I recently heard of that I think Adam Grant has used and his research colleagues have used, and it's called passion tax. Have you heard of this?

00;35;22;18 - 00;35;24;03
Krystal Clark
Okay, I have not, but.

00;35;24;04 - 00;35;25;25
Janice Crampton
Okay, You're ready?

00;35;25;27 - 00;35;26;14
Krystal Clark
Yes. And I.

00;35;26;14 - 00;35;46;23
Janice Crampton
Know this. I know that I'm interviewing you, but here goes. So what what what strikes me about this phrase and again, I'm not using the definition verbatim, but the idea behind it is so often in our jobs and in our work, we do more. And in schools we use that phrase and everything else that the head of school asks you to do.

00;35;46;23 - 00;36;05;13
Janice Crampton
Right. And many an admission and enrollment practitioner will say, Well, I have my job, but I also do bus duty and substitute teach, and I run the school fair and I do this. And I also do bookkeeping and I do that. And they wear many hats and everyone kind of says, Oh, yes, yes, yes, but you can do it.

00;36;05;15 - 00;36;28;23
Janice Crampton
And the idea behind this passion tax is that you begin to develop a level of resentment because you are not being compensated appropriately for the work that you're doing. And in fact, your passion becomes a tax that is, in fact withdrawing from you and your ability to be your best self.

00;36;28;26 - 00;36;55;28
Krystal Clark
Absolutely. You know, we use other duties as assigned. That's what we use in higher ed. That's what's at the bottom of every resume is. And and other duties as assigned. And then you start to realize what those other duties are and you go, Wow. Oh, and, you know, it's this thing about, you know, I think about myself as a 24 year old student affairs professional who had no issues with those other duties.

00;36;55;28 - 00;37;34;06
Krystal Clark
I was like, Oh, yes, volunteer for the bonfire. Absolutely. Yeah, do it. Did did you do it? And I remember coming to Vanderbilt and going, No, thank you. I, I am at a different place in my life right now. I totally understand more of my worth and my value. I get that by doing all this extra. I'm just becoming more tired and I don't I can't actually afford to be more tired like I if you really want for Crystal, you've got to allow me to hold on to the energy and allow me to really live out that passion in a healthy way.

00;37;34;09 - 00;37;38;23
Krystal Clark
But I think you're right. I think we start to take advantage of people.

00;37;38;25 - 00;38;04;14
Janice Crampton
We start to take advantage of people. And I think that in the spirit of taking advantage of people, it's always sort of masked with this idea of where a community and we foster a feeling of family and we all need to do other things and and, you know, there just becomes a point, you're right. And I think it begins to detract from your professional persona because you look like a crazy person running all over the place, right?

00;38;04;16 - 00;38;30;07
Krystal Clark
You dare I call it mission based gaslighting. Oh, I think, you know, when you're in education, you are you are contributing to this, like, very purposeful, important thing in the world, right? You are helping to educate America's youth. Right. And all of our it's, you know, every institution has these, you know, lovely glowing mission statements so that almost it gets thrown in your face if you start saying, no, you know what?

00;38;30;07 - 00;38;52;02
Krystal Clark
What do you mean? You'll you'll say no. Or you you want to get paid more for this, but this is who we are. So it's sort of the and then you feel like, oh my gosh, I must be a terrible educator because I'm not I'm not falling in line with this. But I think we there's a lot of mission based gaslighting in higher ed because we don't want to pay people their worth.

00;38;52;05 - 00;38;59;29
Krystal Clark
We don't want to hire more people to do the job. Right. So let's keep hitting you with this because you can't say no to this, right?

00;39;00;02 - 00;39;35;20
Janice Crampton
That's right. Well, and again, I think that age and stage thing comes into play, too, because, you know, I am 60 and I would I would not. I not be the dorm mom in a fraternity. You know, we'd have a different talk about lights out. It'd be a different experience. So when you moved on to Vanderbilt and again then found yourself in that new office that was created and then serving as the director of that new initiative was that I mean, again, how did that happen at Vanderbilt?

00;39;35;20 - 00;39;45;26
Janice Crampton
Because did you help create that department? Because I kind of feel like, yeah, of course you did. Of course. I mean, that's a silly question. Of course, Crystal created that department.

00;39;45;29 - 00;40;16;08
Krystal Clark
So there was two years before that where I took on another role, fraternity and sorority life that was a promotion. And I, I got to around a year and a half and was like, No, thank you. I cannot do this anymore. So I did something that I think is really important. I took my now that I think about it, I took my supervisor's supervisor out to lunch and I expressed to him how I was feeling and I wasn't feeling great.

00;40;16;08 - 00;40;36;21
Krystal Clark
And it wasn't about her at all. It was about the work, right? It was about. And so I thought that me and Vanderbilt were done, but we had a reorganization going on and we had all these committees. And so you could either volunteer to be on a committee or be volun told to be on it.

00;40;36;23 - 00;40;39;10
Janice Crampton
Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah.

00;40;39;13 - 00;41;11;15
Krystal Clark
And I volunteered to be on the Leadership Development Committee. In doing so, we, we wrote the proposal that ended up becoming the office that I ran for seven years. So by me saying yes to that committee and showing that I had a passion there, but also experience and getting in that room and working with people and developing those frameworks and that structure and thinking about leadership development a larger level because of my education for Maryland, that was perfect.

00;41;11;15 - 00;41;30;02
Krystal Clark
I had been my concentration at Maryland. I knew all the people in the field with written all the books. And so when they said when my dean of students finally said, we're going to create the office, I was one of the people in line to become the inaugural director of the office, and I was able to get that job.

00;41;30;02 - 00;41;55;10
Krystal Clark
Yeah, Yeah. So that's how that happened. So I did that for seven years and then said it's time for a change. And then that little thing called the pandemic came. So as I'm trying to figure out exit strategies, I think, oh, this may not be the best time to look for a job or to leave a job is during a pinch, you know, how about you?

00;41;55;10 - 00;42;17;06
Krystal Clark
Just because I honestly thought that a lot of institutions were furloughing they're furloughing their staff because once the students left, they were like, Well, if we furlough you, we can save that money. I work in a I work in a very well-resourced place, and that is a privilege. And so they kept us on. However, they offered an early out program.

00;42;17;09 - 00;42;38;27
Krystal Clark
And so the people who were in my role, they were near retirement. So they were like, Listen, I'm just going to take the balloon and leave because they're like, we don't know when the what's happening in the world. However, the school decided to rehire those positions. Now, here's what's important to think about, because I think that every job is preparing you.

00;42;39;00 - 00;42;47;20
Krystal Clark
And I think if you if you have a vision for yourself, you start doing the work of the next job that you want. Okay, pause.

00;42;47;20 - 00;42;58;02
Janice Crampton
So pause. So you always are right. So you're creating the opportunity. What you need to say that again, you're preparing yourself for the next job while you're.

00;42;58;02 - 00;43;02;21
Krystal Clark
In the facility. Every job that you're in is preparing you, even jobs that you don't like.

00;43;02;21 - 00;43;03;05
Janice Crampton
That's right.

00;43;03;13 - 00;43;30;21
Krystal Clark
And so you have to zone in on what are you learning and what do you need to learn to get to where you want to go. I had decided that I wanted to no longer work with students. I wanted to work with staff members. That's where I wanted to do learning and development. So I said to myself, okay, here I am in this office and we have a lot of staff members on campus who need leadership programing.

00;43;30;24 - 00;43;53;26
Krystal Clark
So I'm going to start developing staff based programing to invite staff members too. So that's what I started doing. And the programs became very popular on campus, very popular from all departments. People would come, people start requesting the programs. Great. So then I said, Well, I need to figure out if I want to be this person, I need to figure out what that person does.

00;43;53;26 - 00;44;14;28
Krystal Clark
So I had an informational interview with the person whose job I ended up taking. So I met with her, figure out, followed her around for a day, figured out what she did, learn her credentials, and then I connected with her team members and started going to like little sort of affinity groups with them where we shared facilitation tips and leadership resources.

00;44;15;01 - 00;44;36;14
Krystal Clark
So then I joined a committee that was all about professional development on campus and met a ton of people. And then I joined in our committee. So all this is happening prior to pandemic, but I'm planning to get all this in my toolbox so that I can go apply for a job away from Vanderbilt.

00;44;36;17 - 00;44;37;06
Janice Crampton
Oh.

00;44;37;07 - 00;44;42;18
Janice Crampton
Oh. Did you? You hadn't opened up your you hadn't opened up your own company yet, had you?

00;44;42;18 - 00;45;04;06
Krystal Clark
I hadn't opened up my own come. And also, the women who were in these roles have been in these roles for a long time. And those jobs don't become open very often. However, here comes the pandemic. So once they leave, i get a call from a friend that i made an h.r. Because I had been making connections and she said, crystal, the jobs are going to be posted on monday.

00;45;04;06 - 00;45;15;27
Krystal Clark
Get your stuff together over the weekend. You have to apply and i had already made an impression on the hiring manager, and so i interviewed and got the job.

00;45;16;01 - 00;45;20;20
Janice Crampton
Wow. That's a phenomenal opportunity, right?

00;45;20;23 - 00;45;37;08
Krystal Clark
You know, and i got to stay in Nashville and it's been it's been since September 2020. I started this role. And so it's been, you know, three years. And it's been the best thing for me at this point in my life. Absolutely.

00;45;37;14 - 00;45;48;07
Janice Crampton
What's your what are you proudest of in the work that you've done? There's got to be a standout, and I know there are many I'm proud of. Yeah. Yeah. I can only have one choice.

00;45;48;09 - 00;45;49;26
Krystal Clark
Who? Or.

00;45;49;29 - 00;45;54;28
Janice Crampton
Or maybe. Let me ask you this. Have you ever. Well, you go ahead.

00;45;55;00 - 00;46;20;06
Krystal Clark
I mean, I would think and you brought this up. I started my business. I think it's the proudest of myself I've ever been, because I you know, I started August 20, 20, and it was during a time where everyone was asking for virtual experiences. And I had been doing that work and just sort of doing things for connections that I had and whatnot.

00;46;20;06 - 00;46;43;03
Krystal Clark
But to sit down and really plan it out and think about it and think about the funding of it and set up my little home studio and you know what I mean? And really put myself out there. You know, I don't have a I don't come from a legacy of entrepreneurship right. And to to do that and to work the way that I do and to have people reaching out to me.

00;46;43;05 - 00;47;01;27
Krystal Clark
I'm very proud of that and very proud of it. It was always on my list of things that I think I wanted to do. And so, you know, I think for a lot of us, the pandemic, there's a lot of perspective there. And it was like, you know, if you're not going to do it now, what are you going to do it because you don't know what's happening tomorrow?

00;47;01;29 - 00;47;09;11
Krystal Clark
And so I just was like, okay, I'm going to do what I'm going to do. I'm going to do it. And it's been going ever since. And it's been a beautiful thing.

00;47;09;12 - 00;47;37;18
Janice Crampton
It's wonderful. You know, one, listening to this might imagine that you've never had, as the author Wendy Mogul might say, blessings of a skinny. I mean, Crystal, have you ever faltered or failed? Is there a moment where you again think about this, where you think about this and you go, who's that? That was most unfortunate. And given that, what did you learn from it?

00;47;37;20 - 00;47;58;16
Krystal Clark
Yeah, I mean, I definitely feel and have something in me. I think the other thing to understand is that I haven't always been the most popular kid on the block either, Right? So I've been through a lot and I was told very early on that everyone wouldn't like me. So I think I just sort of inhale that very early and held on to that.

00;47;58;19 - 00;48;06;21
Krystal Clark
But yeah, there have been times when I feel, here's the thing, I make mistakes all the time. I think I have become so comfortable in admitting that.

00;48;06;24 - 00;48;07;07
Janice Crampton
That's right.

00;48;07;11 - 00;48;15;24
Krystal Clark
There you go and apologizing if I need to and course correcting it. It doesn't even feel like effort anymore.

00;48;15;27 - 00;48;17;15
Janice Crampton
It's. Well.

00;48;17;17 - 00;48;36;24
Krystal Clark
I did that. That's on me. I deeply apologize. Let's make this right and I'm going to do what I need to do to make amends. And that has been a very I don't know, it's just kind of a very freeing thing to be able to not have to hold on to those mistakes or to stew over them a great deal.

00;48;36;26 - 00;49;00;08
Krystal Clark
I give voice to things that I'm shameful about. I learned that I think from Brené Brown of giving that voice and not holding on to that because no one's a unicorn. We've all messed up and giving voice to that. So it just lightens you up and it invites other people in to also share. Listen, I did the same thing, like, let me help you work through this.

00;49;00;10 - 00;49;03;08
Krystal Clark
So yeah, there's tons of skinned knees.

00;49;03;11 - 00;49;22;04
Janice Crampton
But I think what you've also said here, in the spirit of the skinny analogy, is that there is this acknowledgment and acceptance that you've made these errors or these fumbles or these trips and falls, but you get back up, you have to go and we fall down and we get back up, back up.

00;49;22;06 - 00;49;37;28
Krystal Clark
Right? And everyone's not going to say yes to you all the time. I wasn't accepted to every grad school, do you know what I mean? And I didn't I didn't get everything the first time around, but if it meant something to me, I tried again. And that's just the way it is.

00;49;37;28 - 00;49;53;08
Janice Crampton
Yeah. Yeah. So, Crystal, as we think about our our time together today, I'd love to just hear in this sort of the, the key, as they say. What are your current challenges, your victories and your gratitude?

00;49;53;11 - 00;49;56;07
Krystal Clark
Oh gosh, that's a deep question.

00;49;56;11 - 00;50;00;03
Janice Crampton
We're deep here at SAP. We're pretty deep.

00;50;00;06 - 00;50;36;01
Krystal Clark
Listen, my challenges, my biggest challenge and the one that I go to work to address every single day is that I just don't think work has to be a horrible place for people. I don't I don't think it has to be that hard. I don't think it has to be something that beats you down. And so I'm trying to do a lot with my incredible team of humans that I get to work with every day, constantly trying to figure out how do we create things, facilitate conversations, and just try to make our workplace a better place for people.

00;50;36;03 - 00;50;56;08
Krystal Clark
That's a challenge that I think about quite often. So that's my biggest challenge right now. And also, you know, I need to stop shopping so much, but I love it, I love it, I love it. Yeah. Personal challenge. But that's my that's my big thing is this workplace thing. I don't know. We're stuck. We're working through it. And I think we always will be.

00;50;56;11 - 00;50;58;03
Krystal Clark
But I think progress is important.

00;50;58;07 - 00;51;09;03
Janice Crampton
But don't you also think in the workplace thing, you know, in the challenges that are coming out? I think far more than we've allowed them to come out, right? It's not that they weren't there, which is, but. Right.

00;51;09;04 - 00;51;27;00
Krystal Clark
Oh, it's wonderful. Right. I think the pandemic was a highlighter. It was a flashlight, people would say. And I think that's wonderful because I do think employees have found more agency and they're speaking up more to saying more. And for someone like me, I love that. Right. But for a lot people, they're like, oh.

00;51;27;03 - 00;51;50;10
Janice Crampton
Well. And that gets back to that gets back to the let's call it training, right. That we have to equip not only the employees but the employers. Well, so what do we do with all this? Because because again, it's out. It's out. And people haven't been equipped. They haven't been equipped or they're I haven't been equipped. They haven't been taught how to be right and what to do.

00;51;50;10 - 00;51;52;01
Krystal Clark
So I absolutely.

00;51;52;01 - 00;52;02;10
Janice Crampton
You know, I loved when you said about the shopping because I also noted that, again, you love your podcast and you love your dreams watching. OC So what are you binge watching now?

00;52;02;10 - 00;52;10;12
Krystal Clark
Crystal What I guess I'm going to start the Crown this evening. The last season Part one is out, is out I think today.

00;52;10;13 - 00;52;11;19
Janice Crampton
Yeah, I think it's out today.

00;52;11;22 - 00;52;20;07
Krystal Clark
Days ago. Oh okay. Well I will, I will get back into that again and then each year I have an annual rewatch of Mad Men.

00;52;20;12 - 00;52;24;05
Janice Crampton
Oh, my gosh, you're my sister from another mother. I.

00;52;24;09 - 00;52;30;26
Krystal Clark
I love that. The perfect show. Yes. I watch it once a year, so I'm. I'm there with that right now.

00;52;30;29 - 00;52;42;15
Janice Crampton
So are you. Are you do you get dare I use this word? Are you triggered in mad men by all of the h.r. Blunders that are committed, right?

00;52;42;15 - 00;52;49;15
Krystal Clark
It makes me it makes me giggle, right? It's like this is a very different time, You know, it's definitely not a a great workplace when.

00;52;49;15 - 00;52;54;15
Janice Crampton
You're like when you're like don draper. You can't do that, right?

00;52;54;17 - 00;53;00;26
Krystal Clark
You can't do that. But it's Don Draper. I let him get away with a lie. Exactly. Exactly.

00;53;00;28 - 00;53;22;23
Janice Crampton
Exactly, exactly. Well, Crystal it has been an honor and a privilege to spend time with you today. And as I think about, again, what we do on this podcast, on the regular, this is our third year of doing this. We also like to collect what the people or the get sake songs of those that we miss. We meet with.

00;53;22;23 - 00;53;50;07
Janice Crampton
So and then Beth puts together a playlist at the end of the year. Oh gosh. So Crystal, Crystal, you wake up in the morning or you hop in the car or you get ready to go to Bar three or your golf match and you put on the AirPods and the song comes on. What's your get psyched song? Crystal I think that's why you hate this question.

00;53;50;09 - 00;53;55;23
Krystal Clark
Because I am obsessed with music. Yeah, says so.

00;53;55;23 - 00;53;57;18
Janice Crampton
Are you saying you don't have right now?

00;53;57;18 - 00;54;23;28
Krystal Clark
No, I have many. Okay. Right. So I took on a project to understand the love of Taylor Swift because I was not a swifty. I was not a swifty, and so I didn't get it. And so when the movie when the tour came out, I was like, What? Because I'm a I'm a Beyonce girl. And not that they are not that they go against each other because they don't.

00;54;24;01 - 00;55;05;21
Krystal Clark
But I was more focused on Beyonce's tour, not on Taylor, but I took on this desire to figure it out. And so and so right now I am listening to her 1989 album, and that has been getting me going in the morning. So anything you want to take from that album is fantastic. And I will say, unfortunately, one of the songs that I love that is so annoying to most people is Shake It Off, because I want you to listen to the lyrics of what she sang about shaking it off and how she never misses a beat.

00;55;05;21 - 00;55;18;11
Krystal Clark
She's lightning on her feet and that's not what people see right now. She's judged a lot as she wrote all that music and it's incredible. So you can shake it off on the list. Yeah. So there you go.

00;55;18;14 - 00;55;34;21
Janice Crampton
There you go. Love it, love it. And that song, we will never, ever, ever get back together. I just want to tell you that I want to say we will always, always, always get back together. Because Kristen Clarke, you rock.

00;55;34;24 - 00;55;36;24
Krystal Clark
You rock the unit.

00;55;36;26 - 00;55;38;11
Janice Crampton
Thank you again.

00;55;38;11 - 00;55;40;01
Krystal Clark
Thanks for having me.

00;55;40;04 - 00;55;54;08
Janice Crampton
We hope you enjoyed this episode of We Admit to learn more about the Association of Independent School Admission Professionals and how you can take advantage of membership benefits. Visit a support that's a I. S AP dawg.