Leadership Detectives
Leadership Detectives
Special Anniversary Episode: Celebrating the First Year of the Podcast
Welcome to Episode 11 of The Leadership Detectives.
In this episode, we celebrate our 1st anniversary of The Leadership Detectives with a look back on some of our favourite moments of the last year.
We also managed to record together, in person, for the very first time!
Thank you to everyone who has been a guest, contributed towards our journey in any way and, most importantly, to the listeners.
Find Neil online at: https://neilthubron.com
Find Albert on LinkedIn at: www.linkedin.com/in/albert-e-joseph
Welcome to the Leadership Detectives with Albert Joseph and Neil Fumbrum. This is the GoTo Podcast, uncovering clues about great leadership. If you are a leader today or an aspiring leader, this podcast is a must for you. And we're live. Hey, welcome. Welcome everyone. Welcome to our anniversary edition. One year. One year the Leadership Texas has been going. And this is the first time Alba and I have been physically in the same room together. I've got a shoe.
SPEAKER_01:I'm not sure how to answer that one, but that's good.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, brilliant.
SPEAKER_01:So, guys, yeah, listen, this is this is week 52 since we did our very first edition back in May 2020. Can you believe it? Um, that by the way came out of uh, hey Bertie, what do you think? We know a little bit about leadership. Should we share that that learning with people and see where we want to go? And here we are with 52 weeks and 16 guests. We've just kind of gone through and looked at which guests we've had.
SPEAKER_02:So it's just unreal, and we're very lucky. So you see a bit of cake in the corner there. So Charlene has uh got us some cake, and we've got a lovely card here with our anniversary card. First anniversary for those who are on podcast and can't see this. It says, Wherever happens one beautiful moment at a time. And actually, that's a really good because it has this year. Yeah, it's happened one beautiful episode at a time. I'm so very proud of your achievements in your first year. Long may it continue with my love and support always, Charmaine. Thank you, Charmaine. Fantastic.
SPEAKER_01:Listen, I've never received a joint card with Neil before.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that's true.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, thank you for that.
SPEAKER_02:I'm just gonna move that cake out of the way. We have got some cake here as well. We're gonna we might jump on during the end. So, what we thought we'd do today is we're, you know, so uh to be honest. I mean, did you think we would get to a year's worth of podcasts pretty much every week? We've done 48 episodes when we first came up with this idea in the first lockdown 2020.
SPEAKER_01:No, no, and and let's just think about a learning point before we go into that. We didn't come out with this fantastic business plan, this fantastic prescribed list of all the different episodes we were going to. You had a list, I think, of about 10 or 15 things we could have drawn from, right? But but one of the lessons from this, guys, is you don't have to plan everything to the nth degree before you go for execution, right? Sometimes just do it, right? Just get out the blocks and go and then adjust as you go, right?
SPEAKER_02:And I think we've learned skills, and that's the other thing, actually, that's probably worth you know, for our listeners and leaders to pick up is when you start on a journey, you don't know what you're going to learn.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And we started on the journey, and I didn't know how to edit videos. I've learned how to edit videos, and guess what? That's now led to creating online courses, sales courses, using my video editing skills for companies and for myself. So, you know, there's skills that came out of that. You learned how to edit and develop podcasts, didn't you?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I mean, I knew nothing about that. And and and Neil was doing all the video stuff, and he said, Hey, Bertie, can you take a look at the podcast and see what? And you know what? I kind of put the phone down on Neil and went, Oh, shoot, what do I do? What do I know about podcasts? But guys, YouTube is a fantastic resource, right? But we basically went on there and said, What can we do to learn and how can we develop and how can we grow? And by the way, carry some of these lessons, guys, into being a leader. You're not gonna get the manual on day one. You're gonna experiment with some things, you're gonna learn things, you're gonna pick up a load of things from other people, right? YouTube is because we've learned from other people. Leadership, learn from other people.
SPEAKER_02:And try something, step outside your comfort zone, step into doing something that you think is the right thing to do, but you're not 100% sure. And then just learn as you go.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And as you said a minute ago, it doesn't have to be perfect before you have a go. Just give it a just so long as the I think the key actually, and the key I learned from this is so long as the intention is right, you know, our intention has always been whatever we do, it's about how can we help the leaders who listen to us. Yeah, yeah. And so long as your intention is right, then everything else will start falling into place.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. What's the measure of whether that's right or wrong, right? And the only, I think the strongest measure we use is the feedback that we get.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So just to share with you guys, right? We don't get most of our feedback on the open comments of LinkedIn or YouTube or anywhere else. We get a lot of feedback in the background. Now, maybe that's people feeling uncomfortable posting publicly what they want to say, but we get a lot of feedback about do you know how surprising it is for Neil and I? We talk to each other each week and go, you know, I heard from so-and-so. They tell me they listen to this every week. Really? Yeah, I had no idea. We've got people who said they listen to it walking.
SPEAKER_02:Walking talks, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:We've got people who say they've got when they're doing their exercise. We've got people that say they listen to it when they're cooking. Somebody says they cook. How do you cook to Bertie and Neil?
SPEAKER_02:I don't know how you do that, but uh maybe maybe it's so amusing that it keeps them uh happy. But I I also have spoken to people that I haven't spoken to in ages, and they'll tell me about an episode they've listened to and what they've got out of it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, I even spoke to someone the other day who literally I hadn't ever met before, and he said, the reason I know you is because I've listened to a couple of your episodes and I I love what you're saying about leadership. But I think that's for me personally, and I think the same for you, that feedback and knowing we are hitting the spot and helping people, yeah, keeps us going. Because let's face it, it's not easy every week finding time to put a podcast in the calendar, come up with a topic, do the planning, yeah, record it, edit it, etc.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um, but it keeps us motivated, doesn't it?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and and important to realise, guys, some a lot of this stuff we do on weekends. We don't do this in during, we're doing this on weekends, and that's okay, it doesn't matter. A day's a day, it doesn't really make a difference. But the reason I say that is it's not like we treat it as a job, we treat it as something where we can bring value to you however we do that, right? Um, and and I think the the other thing is that we also hear about people who share it with other people, right? That they've taken it to someone else and said, Hey, you might want to listen to this, this episode that they heard about bullying or something like that. And they'll go, Hey, you might want to just take some lessons out. Again, keep sharing, guys, keep publicising it elsewhere.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, um, but but that's really useful. And it's interesting, yeah. We just printed off and looked through all of the episodes that we've done, and some of them I'd forgotten about and how powerful they were. And you know, I use these when I'm coaching leaders, I'll send them an episode because it's relevant to a topic we just talked about, like managing upwards or developing your career or looking after yourself. And yeah, so so there's a what I hope what we've created is a resource that's available to leaders to dip in and out of, yeah. And uh go and listen to or watch when they need to, as opposed to you know, every week listening to a different one. There's a you know, there's a resource there they can use.
SPEAKER_01:Whilst you mentioned that, do you want to pick out a few that are good memories for you or good episodes for you?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I made a few notes about ones that I guess stood out for me because I mean I've learned so much over the the last year, and that there have been so many aha moments. And I think the the the episodes that stand out for me that I think you and I did. So the one on racism, that was eye-opening for me because I learned things about you I didn't know, and I've known you 35 plus years. Yeah, and you were very open in that episode. In fact, I I shared it with someone the other day because she was a female in business and was struggling with in a in a very male-dominated environment. I said, you might learn something from this episode that would help you in dealing with that. Okay. So that was definitely one for me that stood out. I think the live webinar we did, yeah, yeah, that was fun because it kind of put us on edge a bit. But what about what about you? What stands out for you?
SPEAKER_01:Just by the way, guys, before I comment on this, I don't want to take anything away from any of our guests because we had some great guests. We'll come back to that. And that and that is challenging. But yeah, but one of the things that that stood out for me is, and and it started off with Gene, who was up front, Gene McCaskell, but a lot of people have gone through this. Clive Fernandez, Carmina Lees. Lots of people have come back to this same topic, being human, right? Lots of them have come back to that same topic about being human, being vulnerable, being yourself. And that for me is a is a thread going through this whole thing that you and I. I had somebody yesterday, by the way, who I was coaching for an interview that they were doing. Okay. And they asked about what they should say in certain areas. And we got into the fact that what she she wanted to talk about was leadership, but she called it management. Okay. And I said, What you just talked about was leadership. And then she herself said some things, what she thought about leadership, which were about being human. Okay. It's a thread that is here throughout, right? Really important thread that I take away from 52 weeks.
SPEAKER_02:And and actually, that's so there's an interesting thing, because that being human, being authentic, but it's a style thing.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And then there are some technical aspects that keep coming up, having a vision.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So you can be human, be authentic, but if you don't know where you're going, yeah, that's hopeless. Yeah. You're not a leader. If you're not able to communicate and communicate regularly, and I think that's worth reflecting on as well, right? We've did this through three lockdowns. So in the UK and globally, probably more than that. And you know, we do have a lot of listeners that listen from other countries. Yeah. And so leadership has been strained massively. The effort that leaders have had to put in over the last 15 months since the pandemic really kicked off has just been extraordinary. But one of the things that's come out that's incredibly positive while we're working remotely is the importance of communication and the fact that working remotely, bizarrely enough, allows leaders to communicate more. And so that's come up a lot about the communication piece.
SPEAKER_01:Um, which is interesting, right? Because why is that communication any different in a remote environment than when you were in an on-site environment? People think by being present in a building, it's enough. That's enough. Yeah, I'm in the same building as my guys, so that's good enough. It's not, yeah, and it's enough. And if they need me, I'm here. So so you so you guys, you work it out, right? Yeah, I'm here, you you work it out. So that's a really important message, guys. The pandemic has forced you to have to communicate in a different way and put yourself in. Right. Which don't let that be undone. When you go, if you go back to offices and stuff, don't let it be undone.
SPEAKER_02:Or use both. And the hybrid work environment, you know, we talked some about that in a couple of the episodes. That is going to become more probable. I think we'll be talking about that a lot more over the next year. Is how do leaders manage in that hybrid work environment?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So when we look at the guests, then let's just reflect on that for a minute. Because we've had 16 guests, we've had ex-superintendents, firefighters, bomb disposal experts, tech entrepreneurs, some senior managing directors, and all sorts. Yeah, Skipper, yeah. We've had we've had so many different people who've got a perspective on leadership. What stands out for you from those kind of conversations?
SPEAKER_01:What stands out for me, and if you'd have asked me this ages ago, I never would have said it. Leadership is leadership. Great term. Leadership is leadership. It doesn't matter that you might want to change the nuance of it, you might want to change the focus of it, but the things that we found are the key basic components of leadership, are no different, whether you're in military, boardroom, public service, have a vision, good communication, mentoring and coaching your people, dealing with difficult conversations and difficult situations. Right? I mean, the list, there's probably a hot list there, which we have talked about in other that's what stands out.
SPEAKER_02:I think the other thing that stands out is if you're a leader, lead.
unknown:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Too many people are in leadership positions who don't want to be and they don't lead.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So if you're in a leadership position, uh lead. Yeah, you know, set the vision, set the strategy, set the standards and values, you know, be be human and be realistic of the expectations on your team, but lead.
SPEAKER_01:And we like to be positive, right? But we should also be realistic because what one of our other guests said, Sophie, was and if you don't want to lead, get out of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. If you honestly realize this is not the role for you, get out of it. Because some people get into it because it's the natural progression of uh level, salary, compensation, stripes on your arm, that isn't the reason to lead, right? And by the way, leaders, we've said it before, leadership is not about uh a badge or an authority, it's about how you conduct yourself. But be careful if you've gone into that role and you find it isn't really what you want, because leadership is about people.
SPEAKER_02:And I think that's an interesting point because a lot of people are put in leadership roles because it's the next step, yeah, because they're the best salesman or they're the best uh accountant, and so they're put into the leadership role, but they're not necessarily the best leaders. But my advice would be to anyone listening to this who wants to be a leader and sees that they could do a better job, yeah, step forward. Yeah, go do it, step forward, get yourself into a leadership position because if you want to lead and you think you can, then go for it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, don't hold yourself back. We've lifted the lid on what might have been a mystery to people before about what leadership is. And they might have said, I don't think I could do that. I remember when in a role that I was when I was an exec, and and I was talking to the person who could be my successor. And when I talked to them about it, they went, I can't do that. And they had this paradigm about what I did every day that they said they couldn't step into. That person followed me in that role and was there for two, three years and did an outstanding job. Right? So there's a power. So I hope we've lifted the lid for people who are thinking about this, aspiring leaders that go, do you know what? I think I'd love to spend my days doing this stuff.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Right. And I think that you know, the key thing is if you do make that decision, just remember it's not about you. And that's one of the things we've learned in a number of the interviews we've had. The good leaders focus on their people first. Yeah, they put more time in the calendar for their people. When they look at their calendar, their people have more time in the calendar than their upline management, than their customers. And because if you focus on the people, whatever your business is, whether you're a product business, whether you're a services business, if you focus on the people, the rest of it looks after itself.
SPEAKER_01:Another interesting thing is we're sitting here now in the afternoon, after Neil and I going out on the golf course this morning. Yeah, and this was Neil's first round of golf for 16 years. At least 16. 16 years, right? By the way, he beat me, even though it was his first round of golf for 16 years. But but Neil asked me while we were walking around the course, have you ever, you know, what lessons have you had? What coaching have you had? And I said, actually, not a great deal. And my golf has been at a steady level for a long time, not a fantastic level, but a steady level. But it comes, it triggers in my mind if I was to have coaching, how much better could I be as a golfer if that's what I wanted? So think about the coaching in this world as well, guys, right? Coaching is a really important thing in leadership.
SPEAKER_02:Obviously, I'm gonna say coaching is really important because I coach leaders. And we well, we coach leaders. I learned this when I took on my own coach four or five years ago, and it transformed the way I thought, it transformed the work I did, it transformed the business that I do and and actually and transformed the way I interact with family and friends as well. So you cannot underestimate the power of investing in coaching. Oh yeah, but I can't afford that. Uh you're asking the wrong question. Yeah, it should be how could I, or what value would I need to get out of the coaching that's gonna make it seem like it was a small amount to pay. And that was the way I looked at it. It was a bit like having a PA. You know, there's no way I was gonna, I wouldn't have not have a coach now. I just I just build it into my accounts, my finance every year.
SPEAKER_01:And don't get it wrong, guys, it's not about us promoting here that you can come and get coaching from us, right? You can get a coach from anywhere. If you're in a big organization, you might have an internal function that provides that for you. You can get coaches elsewhere external. So this is not about promoting our services, but what I would say is think about whether having a coach would help you move forward. You might have plateaued in your skills or you might just not know where to go. And by the way, what's a coach? It's about getting out in what's in your mind, right? And they will just help you to bring that out.
SPEAKER_02:So I'm gonna ask you, what was the most shocking thing or the thing you least expected that came out in the last year? The episode you think I wasn't expecting to be recording this.
SPEAKER_01:When I say when you say shocking, surprising, yeah, was when we had an aha moment and decided to bring Rebecca and Saskia in for a conversation as a couple of millennials.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Because the shock for me was the fact that I'm a 50-something who's been leading for 30 years. I thought I knew it all and realized that half the population today are millennials who want to be led in a different way, yeah. And so that I could learn something, but then also I could adapt my own learning and leadership style to still be proficient in today's world. That was a, you know, I was living in the past, right? Yeah, right, and it was a little bit of discomfort for me to realize that there's a different way. And then you find that different way is actually very easy to adapt to.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and there was some good insight from that um episode, which I've actually replayed over and over when I've been coaching people and working with people, you know, because there's there was some good insight in that one. I think the one for me, the one that made me think I was, I don't know, ignorant is the wrong word, but just it was a blind spot, was the the conversation with Jana Brukman about inviting conflict. Yeah, yeah. And that whole concept of the manager should encourage conflict within the team because out of conflict comes a better result, yeah, comes a better solution. Yeah, but it's how you manage that and create the environment for it, rather than suppressing it and not allowing that freedom. It's almost like we did that episode on failure and allowing people to fail. Same thing, right?
SPEAKER_01:That's exactly where my mind went, just as you were saying that, right? Because that's another example of something that we would have steered away from as a leader, when in fact you're saying go towards it, embrace it, and then turn it round to your benefit, right? Really good example because that failure one was exactly the same thing.
SPEAKER_02:So I think as as we kind of wrap up our anniversary episode, because I think we're about 20 minutes in, so I haven't been recording a time. What would be a lasting message you'd like to leave with the audience?
SPEAKER_01:Interesting, actually, because the things that I would like to finish with is, and this none of this is planned, by the way, guys. We didn't know exactly what we're going to do, right? The thing I'd like to finish with is a thank you to Neil personally, right? And this is genuine. It's I've learned a lot working with you and forcing us to look at some things that we hadn't thought about before, right? So, and and part of that, one of the real key learnings for me, guys, and and by the way, lots of you have told us about this in feedback. There is no ego and there's no point scoring with Neil and myself. Neil and I just work, and the other trust down here, the absolute trust you and I have got. And guys, if you can find somebody that can help you with that in your career and your life, that would be so useful for you, right? Someone that you could just lean on. You're not worried about having that conversation because what's going to come back from that? In fact, I know the thing about having a conversation with Neil is he's gonna give me something back that I haven't thought about that might make me uncomfortable, but think about it. So genuinely, right? It's a it's a thank you, Neil, because we've we've learned a lot in 52 weeks. Whilst we're teaching and sharing with other people, yeah, a lot of that's come back at me, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and that's and and that's really really kind of you say so. And actually, the big thing I've learned is well, A, I couldn't have done it without you because this we couldn't have had these kind of conversations, you know, having a conversation on your own, that's a bit like being mad, right? Which which we qualify for. But um, having those different perspectives is brilliant, yeah. But it also and partnering with someone, working with someone really is it it doubles or even triples the power of you being on your own. And I've always done lots of stuff on my own. Yeah, yeah. So actually, that's a it's a really important learning point, and it drives you a bit more because you kind of feel a bit responsible for making sure we're ready for the next episode or making sure you know the content's there and stuff. So yeah, no, I agree with you. One of the messages I'd like to leave with everyone is you know, this was a tiny idea I had sitting in the garden one day. And I know I didn't know where it would go. I just thought Albert and I can add some value to people. If you want to do something, if you want to do something you're passionate about, if you want to do something that you really just think, just think this would be a good idea, just give it a go, just have a go at it. Because if it's coming from the right place, chances are it's going to be successful, and even more importantly, you're probably gonna learn a hell of a lot from it that you weren't expecting to learn.
SPEAKER_01:Also, don't don't believe because you've thought of something, don't underestimate the value in something you've thought of to share with other people. You might think, nah, that's a stupid idea. It might not be, right? You suddenly find the feedback we get on some of the episodes where people go, do you know what? I was struggling with that, and you helped me find a way forward. We didn't know how many people that would affect. So, so guys, share that stuff, talk to people, look to grow, um, and give us any feedback you want about where we want to go with this next, right? Just to give you a bit quick perspective on some stats, by the way. Where we are now from where we were 52 weeks ago. I know we went from a standing start, but we have trebled our downloads on how much people are downloading what they're hearing in our podcasts. I think we've doubled and trebled on YouTube.
SPEAKER_02:YouTube has done really well, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Right? So the things start going, but it's nowhere near where we want it to be because we want to be able to help a lot more people. But just to let you know that that's kind of trebled, which is great. We are working with companies that are helping us with the production and with the uh digital marketing, but and there's more for us to do there. But but give us any feedback you can and and share this with other people.
SPEAKER_02:And you know, we'd love to have you on. Anyone wants to come on, just let us know. Let's get you on. If you've got an episode you want to talk about, if there's a topic you want to talk about, let's get you on.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Listen, mate, it's been a pleasure, it's been a great year, and I'm looking forward to the next year. Enjoyed it. In good time, guys.
SPEAKER_01:Look after yourselves. Speak to you again soon. Take care.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you for listening to the Leadership Detectives with Neil Thubbron and Albert Joseph. Please remember to subscribe, give us your comments and your feedback. Please also visit leadershipdetectives.com for all the episodes and more resources and support.