Paul Hodnefield, Author of Sherman's Woodticks

We visit with Author, Paul Hodnefield about his fascinating look at the Civil War, from a Minnesota/Masonic perspective in his book, Sherman's Woodcocks. He is also embarking on a new project; A History of Minnesota Masonic Charity.

Transcript

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Good day and welcome to Minnesota Masonic Histories and Mysteries Welcome back. My name is Reed Endersby. I am the Director of Membership Engagement for the Grand Lodge of Minnesota and joined by my colleague, John Schweitz. I am John Schweitz, the CEO of Minnesota Masonic Charities. We have a special guest here today. We do have a special guest that makes me harken back to a conversation you and I had before. When I look at someone's bio and their experience. I wish I had not adopted the mantra in College of C's get degrees. Because I know I could have done so much better in, and we have a guest on light today with, uh, the background of, well, let's start here. Our guest is the author of Sherman's Woodticks. It's a nonfiction work about the extraordinary story of the 8th Minnesota Volunteer Infantry Regiment during the Civil War. He regularly speaks to interested audiences on the subject of the book and other Civil War topics. He's an attorney. He serves as associate general counsel for a public records legal services provider. Member of the ABA, the Minnesota Bar, and fellow of the American College of Commercial Finance Lawyers. Apart from writing and legal career, he's a proud Freemason, held many offices in Masonic organizations, past Master of Cataract Lodge No. 2, and also a member of the Scottish Rite in Minneapolis Valley, attained 32nd degree KCCH, a very deserving Honor also volunteers for the temple attorney For azura shriners and serves on the funds board for minnesota masonic charities Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to our guest paul hodnafield Thank you reed. Thank you. John I always like to first ask what was it that compelled you to become a mason in the first place? Originally it uh, it developed out of some family research I was doing and I realized how deep masonry had run Uh, in my family. The, the issue was that my, uh, my grandfather, who was the, uh, the mason in my line, uh, passed away when I was rather young, and he only had daughters, so I, I really didn't have exposure to masonry until much later when I discovered not only was he a mason, but his father was a mason, uh, his, uh, uncle was a mason, his cousins were masons. And in fact, uh, uh, his father, my, my great grandfather and his brother were officers at Clearwater Lodge over a period of 70 years. Oh, wow. Wow. Yeah. So they, they, they were deeply embedded in the community. And, uh, so I, I began to investigate masonry, uh, in more depth and discovered that it would be Uh, it would satisfy something I was looking for, which was two things really, uh, develop my social network, because all my work is mostly outside of the Twin Cities, and, uh, also give me an opportunity to give back through, uh, charitable works at the Lodges, uh, uh, And I've been quite satisfied in those. We've been quite satisfied with you as well. Well, thank you. But I've also enjoyed, uh, uh, uh, what I've learned. There's so much to learn in masonry and that was an unexpected benefit. Uh, uh, many of the different, different esoteric, uh, topics. Yeah, once upon a time you also served on the Minnesota Masonic Home Board. Yes. So, from a charity's perspective, dipped your toes, in quite, quite nicely. did you grow up here? I grew up, uh, just up the street from the Masonic home, uh, uh, uh, in Bloomington. Okay. Which high school did you go to? Jefferson. Jefferson. Okay. That's, uh, prestigious West Bloomington, correct? Yes. Yes, it is. Okay. Just want to make sure that we have that clear. And so, in hearing, in, as we went through some of what keeps you busy. I know you like the outdoors. You spend what time you have left with your lovely wife, Patty. I guess to start out with your, your book, uh, Sherman's Woodticks, what was the catalyst for deciding, Hey, I want to write something in the process of that seems over overwhelming. Where do you begin to dial into the research and embark on something like that? Well, it, it kind of, uh, It was something that grew on me. It grew out of the, um, the genealogical research that I had been doing, uh, based on my, my great grandfather's diaries from, uh, when he was farming outside of Clearwater. And he kept mentioning a couple of people, uh, George Campbell and Charles Gibbs. And I thought, uh, they had married into his family. They had married his sisters. And, uh, I was researching some of the people that were mentioned there for writing a little bit of family history. And I came across a reminiscence written by George Campbell of his time in the 8th Regiment during the Civil War. And the reminiscence was, it was written for his daughters about 25 years after the end of the war. And it was written with humor. And it was written, uh, uh, very detailed about some of the experiences that they had as they, uh, went through the war. And they had a very extraordinary experience, and it just, it struck me, and I wanted to learn more. So that led to more research on the 8th Minnesota, more research on, uh, on Minnesota during the Civil War in general, New thing I discovered led to something else and pretty soon I was charging full speed into the research and the research was incredibly satisfying very interesting all the way through and The only thing that stopped me was when I could sit down and start writing the book and put it all the papers Yeah, I understand that the 8th, Minnesota. Did they have a run in with Sitting Bull once upon a time? Oh, yes, they had an extraordinary experience. I mean, the first two years of the Civil War, for them, were mostly at home because when they enlisted, fully expecting to be sent to the South, this was during the darkest days of the Civil War, the summer of 1862, and things were not going well for the Union, they enlisted, fully enthusiastic to be good soldiers, good citizens, and fight for their country. The very day that they reported to Fort Snelling to be outfitted was the day of the, that the Sioux uprising began. Okay. And that, that was an event, uh, that I, I think can be best likened to, uh, more, more modern events such as Pearl Harbor or 9 11. It was a big shock, not just to Minnesota, but to the country because at the time, uh, the, the United States government needed. the production from Minnesota farmland, uh, and, uh, access to the, uh, uh, uh, mining operations out farther west, uh, in the, in the Rocky Mountains, uh, to help, uh, support the war. They, and the uprising, uh, essentially depopulated the countryside in Minnesota because the, those survivors, uh, fled out of terror. And It, uh, it really sent a shockwave throughout the entire United States and especially the United States government. Uh, so what they did is they, uh, they took some of the newly formed Minnesota regiments and hastily. Took them and put them on frontier duty guarding the frontier to give the the settlers some sort of security So that they either would return or if they hadn't fled that they would stay and they did this so hastily Actually even before some of these volunteers were formed into regiments They would take a ragtag bunch of men that enlisted together say in Wright County And they would send them out to help guard the settlements along the way And they were ill equipped. They didn't have uniforms. They didn't have guns at the time. They might have been equipped with, uh, for, you know, 70 men. They might have 10 muskets. Wow. They, uh, and these would have been next to useless in the event of an attack. But it gave the, the settlers some security and kept them in place so that they could, uh, continue to be productive. Now once the uprising, uh, uh, had subsided about, uh, the, by the end of September. Then they were called back to Fort Snelling to be properly equipped and sent up to, um, in the case of company E, which is what I follow primarily in the book, they were sent up to, uh, Fort Ripley for additional training and they spent a year there and then were assigned, uh, for another year out at Painesville. And it's from there that they did their drilling and prepared for, for the time when they would be called upon to go south. Was it just a matter of the chaos of the time and all that was going on with the, sounds like a lack of training, lack of supplies and equipment. It reminds me of having read a little about the revolution and Washington's struggles with, I had no idea in history class of. The troops were barefoot in the winter and didn't have weapons and didn't have, there were so many aspects that perhaps were either not shared or not taught, but was that a similar, was it just the hastiness of what was going on or what, what was behind the lack of training or equipment or provisions? Well, there were two things. Uh, one is, uh, the, the, the speed of the events that were occurring was of course a factor, but also, Fort Snelling at the time, which is where these regiments were formed and equipped, was being overwhelmed. In mid-August, there were war rallies that took place all over the state, wherever there were population centers such as Anoka, uh, Monticello, uh, there was, there was one Dakota County and, and others, other counties. Uh, where groups of men volunteered together because in a volunteer regiment, they wanted to serve with their, their friends and their families so that as, uh, George Campbell was quoted, uh, yeah, they didn't want to be strangers amongst strangers when they went south. So they enlisted together in all of these small units. These groups of men showed up at Fort Snelling at about the same time. Because they actually tried to raise four or five regiments of a thousand men each all at the same time. So when they showed up at Fort Snelling, it was chaos. I bet. Um, I just have to ask the, uh, the title of the book, where did the title come from? Sherman's Woodticks. Well, can I first ask, did you come up with the title or did the publisher come up with the title? Uh, I was the one that chose to use that as the title. Okay. And the reason, uh, it, it goes to an incident in the book. Now, bear in mind, in the last year of the Civil War, the 8th Minnesota Regiment Uh, traveled all the way from Minnesota out to the Yellowstone River, first, uh, in, uh, conflict with the, the Sioux in, in Dakota territory. Then they turned around. All the way to North Carolina. Well, they, first, they stopped, uh, they came back and they were sent off to, uh, Murfreesboro, Tennessee, where they engaged in battle, uh, with, uh, the likes of Nathan Bedford Forrest. And, uh, they, they, uh, were victorious there. Uh, they chased, uh, the Confederates out of Tennessee after the Battle of Nashville. And then they were ordered to go, uh, to North Carolina. And they were, they went through Washington, D. C. And they had to stop in D. C. because it was so cold. That the Potomac had frozen. Oh wow. And they couldn't, they couldn't send them by ship. So they spent two weeks in Washington, D. C. After having gone all the way out to the Yellowstone in hundred and some degree weather. And all the way back to Murfreesboro where they fought in cold, wet mud. By the time they got to D. C. their uniforms were in tatters. And they looked as rough as any lumberjacks in the Minnesota area could ever look. And they walked into DC proud of what they had done. They sure are proud of how they looked for having done it. And they came across the provost marshal troops, which were essentially military police, uh, at the time. And this was a Massachusetts regiment that had never seen combat. the troops, the, the 8th Minnesota referred to them as paper collar soldiers because they were all, uh, in clean uniforms, crisp, no wrinkles, they wore the, the clean white paper collars that were, uh, fashionable in the day, uh, and, uh, uh, basically the, the Minnesota troops referred to them as kind of dandies and putting on airs and, and, uh, I'd probably use that term, too. Yeah, but the Massachusetts troops derisively referred to these guys as Sherman's Woodticks, because they knew they were on their way to join up with Sherman. And they looked ratty and, and, uh, and, and, uh, weather beaten and, uh, they, they were rough by the time they got there. That's a great, great story. So you said you chose that, I have a friend who actually passed away 11 years ago today, Vince Flynn, the author, and he used to talk about the fact that he never got to choose the titles for his book. The publisher would tell him what the title of the book was after reading it. Is that how the process went for you? Uh, no. I told the publisher what it was going to be. Now, uh, At least the Sherman's Woodticks portion, the extended title, the publisher had a role in doing, but it was by mutual agreement. It wasn't dictated to. And I would imagine that Vince probably, you know, he had so much success that at some point he probably started having a more significant role. writers for the newspaper, for example, they don't write the headline. The, uh, the editor writes the headline, or there are headline editors. And I was just curious, because I just think that the name of the, the, the title of the book makes you want to go, What is this about? What was the Masonic connection? A lot of our listeners are our brother Freemasons and know that if I'm not mistaken, there's a significant portion or connection within the soldiers, the regiments that were, there was a brotherhood connection with their Free, their Masonic Lodges locally. Uh, yeah, and it, it, it was surprising to me as I researched this book, and full disclosure, I'm a, I'm a Freemason, of course, uh, but the, um, what really surprised me was when I discovered through research of the, uh, the Grand Lodge records, 70 percent of the officers in the 8th Minnesota Regiment were Freemasons. Masons by the end of the war 70 percent at a time when the male population of Minnesota had somewhere between 2 and 6 percent we're masons and It astounded that is unusual math right there Yeah, and you know for some some might look at it and think well That's just masons looking after each other and and or some grand Masonic conspiracy, but that's not the case Uh, because, uh, the company level officers, the captains and lieutenants, they were elected by the enlisted men. That was one of the advantages of enlisting in a volunteer regiment. You got to elect your own local, your, your officers at that level. And at the time, uh, the men in the regiment were, uh, again, somewhere between two and six percent Freemasons. It wasn't a huge number. So these men were not elected simply by virtue of being masons. At the regimental level, the officers are appointed by the governor. So the, uh, the colonel, who is the commander, the lieutenant colonel, second in command, major, third in command, uh, and, and then all the support officers, these were appointed by the governor. The governor at the time was not a free mason. Okay. So Why were Freemasons? So o overwhelmingly represented, and I think a lot of it has to do with the character that leads men to, to knock on absolutely. The door and become Freemasons. Uh, it's the, the, the, the moral character, the, the ethics, the, the sense of duty. These are the type of men. The soldiers wanted to follow into battle. In fact, in Company E, which I followed, the initial round of, uh, officers that they elected at the company level were not masons. There was one, uh, the lowest officer was a mason, uh, Harvey Brookins, who was the former, uh, uh, sheriff in St., in, uh, uh, Wright County. But, uh, the two, uh, officers above him were not masons. They were so bad. that the men elected to throw them out about six months later and the new men they elected were Masons. Harvey Brookins took over as captain, uh, Charles Post as a lieutenant, and, uh, Thomas Tollington. Um, it, it, it really is amazing that, uh, Masons were that much overrepresented. That anomaly just isn't a crazy math anomaly. That's a that is a human characteristic reality of, I think, masonry, probably at the time and and still today. We're speaking today with Paul Hodnafield, who is the author of Sherman's Woodticks. If you haven't checked it out already, it's available on Amazon, and I'm assuming some other Barnes Noble. Barnes Noble. Many, many places. It's on my list. It's on my stack to read, and I just have not. This is some major motivation to dive in and, uh, and then learn more. From the compiling of research perspective How do you, this has just always fascinated me. At what point do you say, I have all that I need? The story is complete. Do you ever find yourself thinking maybe there's one more resource I should, should dive into out there? That was one of the challenges, and after I started writing, uh, I would continually come across new information. Uh, and to the extent that I could integrate it in, I would go back and revise and, and add it. Uh, the, the more challenging part is, uh, what happens when something comes in after the book is done, and new information is available, and then I have to go back to the book and make sure that, uh, did I cover it correctly, and fortunately, uh, I, so far I have. But uh, for, for example, I, I write in there about when they were in the Badlands, uh, the first night in the Badlands, bear, bear in mind, uh, in the North Dakota Badlands, what is now the North Dakota Badlands, um, There were no roads in Dakota territory. There, there was nothing out there. And at night there was no light unless the moon was out. There's no ambient light. And if you're sitting there staring, you just turn on your cell phone, right? Well, if you're sitting there staring at a campfire all night, and then you get up and step away, you're not going to see anything, right? You could walk into a tree if there had been a tree. Dakota Territory at the time. Uh, but what happened was, uh, there was a man that got up and took two steps and fell right over the cliff. And, uh, I, I had several different accounts of this happening. Now you could. Tell that some of it was second hand because you had somebody say, yeah, three troopers from the cavalry fell over and all died. And another one says two men from one of the mounted infantry units fell over and died. And another one, one man fell over and they buried him where he lay. And, uh, as it turned out, I discovered, uh, I was contacted by a relative of the, uh, veteran. fellow who went over the side. He was from one of the 8th Minnesota companies, and uh, he had fallen down, but he did not die, Uh, he was badly injured, and he had to travel in an ambulance all the way across the Badlands until they got to the Yellowstone River, when they loaded him onto a hospital boat. There, he died. But, uh, So Paul, can I ask, what is the source material? Where are you getting all this information? Oh, that's a good question. I found A wealth diaries of information. I found diaries by, uh, men who were there and, and the diaries sometimes turned up in strange places. I found a diary that had been digitized from a small public library in New Jersey from one of the officers of, of a company in the eighth Minnesota. I found, uh, diaries of the Minnesota Historical Society. I found, uh, uh, diaries at, at local historical societies, the, the Wright County Historical Society. I found reminiscences, I found speeches that had been written for, uh, uh, after the fact by, by soldiers for, uh, their reunions. Uh, there was, uh, uh, It was coming from everywhere where I looked, but it took some digging. And along the same lines,, you mentioned 70 percent of the Enlisted leadership, the lieutenants and the captains were Freemasons. does it say in your source materials that they were Freemasons, or did you discover those names by doing research in the Grand Lodge, uh, database? Uh, both. Okay. Because in some cases, uh, like the, uh, one of the diaries, the fellow mentioned that he was taking his degrees. Oh, wow. There were a number of soldiers that joined during the war. Uh, and uh, one of the incidents that I describe in the book, uh, that I think compelled several men, uh, to join was a, a Masonic funeral out in Dakota Territory. One of the fears the men had in being in Dakota Territory is if they died out there, either in action or, or of disease, which was just as common, if not more so, that they would be buried alone on the prairie. with nobody around, none of their friends, relatives, or anything. And when the 8th Minnesota went out into Dakota Territory, they met up with another unit that came up the Missouri River, and, uh, to, before they set out on the, on their mission. And so they're on the Missouri River, and one of the steamboats comes up, and there was a, Man on the steamboat who had, uh, volunteered to work the steamboat. He was from, he had was originally from out East, but he was, had been living in St. Paul and he suffered from tuberculosis and he thought that, uh, maybe it would be an improvement if he got out into the West, drier climate by volunteering on the steamboat. Well, he got out to, uh, where they met up with the forces, uh, which is now South of, uh, Mandan or Bismarck, North Dakota, about 20, 30 miles. And, uh, he died of his affliction. Well, it turns out that he was a mason. And, all the masons that were there got together and put on a masonic funeral for this man. And the other soldiers took notice. They watched, they watched him escort the body across the river and, and, uh, conduct the funeral and the burial. And, uh, as soon as they got back from Uh, that portion, uh, a number of them, uh, promptly joined Masonic Lodges. Speaking with Paul Hoddenfield today, and, uh, fascinating to hear about the research involved in Sherman's Wood Hicks and in other, uh, Many other projects you have. What else are you currently working on or how many different projects are you juggling at any given time? Well, I try to keep it to a minimum, but, uh, one of them is, uh, that I am working on is a, a book on the history of Masonic charity in Minnesota. It's, uh, uh, I'm finding it to be a fascinating topic and I'm, I'm looking forward, uh, I'm still at the very early stages of this. That was a great question, by the way, Reed, very well done. Thank you. Thank you very much. So any, uh, what type of, uh, similarly, any surprises of any, any neat, any anecdotes that you read and thought, wow, I've not heard that before? Or, uh, any, you've seen diaries or old passages, Grand Lodge proceedings, I'm assuming? Uh, yes, and, uh, really, it's still a very preliminary stage of the, of the, uh, research that I'm at, but, uh, one of the, uh, First things that struck me, I reviewed the proceedings of the First Grand Lodge of Minnesota and the address by the Grand Master, the First Grand Master Alfred Ames, how first and foremost charity was in their minds. I think the, uh, the quote he used in his speech, which was a relatively short speech, but he said, Let charity be our guiding star. And the Grand Lodge made sure that it established a charitable fund at that first meeting. So that was one of the very first things that Minnesota Masons did when they organized. And it certainly has grown from there. So, truly taking the tenets of our profession of brotherly love, relief, truth, and putting them straight into action right out of the gate. Was he originally, Alfred Ames, from Illinois? I believe so. I recall, and this may or may not be correct, but he relocated to Minnesota, to the territory for the health benefits. And I, was it really that much more of a benefit to one's health at that time to be here versus Illinois? It seems kind of a similar. It's hard to say. We'll never know. I'm very excited about this, this book project. We actually, coincidentally, had a meeting yesterday, and, uh, we had some Minnesota Masonic, old guard historians, in the room. The book is being underwritten, being sponsored by Chuck Dietz, who has a long Masonic history. Chuck is, uh, in his mid 90s now, and Chuck is, very excited about this. very much. His mother, Mildred Dietz, was a worthy grand matron back in the 50s and was part of the Committee of 100 that was, charged with, uh, Putting together the plan to create the Masonic Memorial Hospital, which is a cancer hospital at the University of Minnesota, but we had, uh, Mark Campbell and Eric Neatenbeak and Steve Johnson, uh, in attendance yesterday, and there were a number of names of people that we're going to be reaching out to, I'm especially thrilled at the fact that Chuck is a fan of your particular writing, but yeah, looking forward to this. Uh, I always say that. It's really important for us to recognize that the brothers and sisters that came before us have put Masonic Charities and the Masons of Minnesota in a position, really the privilege of being generous to the community like we are right now. So I'm just hoping that we do the same for the generations of brothers and sisters that come after us. Well, that adds to that, this project that you're working on to finally have a resource that combines all of these. fascinating anecdotes and stories and We we don't want to lose our history of anything out there and how quickly as generations don't pass that knowledge on that things are are forgotten and this is that is Freemasons exciting, but just to also showcase to The rest of the world that asks us so frequently, well, what do Freemasons do? What do you stand for? What is your organization? And right out of the gate for Alfred Ames to declare that charity is going to be that guiding, guiding star, the guiding light, guiding star. Oh, I can't wait for this. Yeah, I think many people, even many Masons don't realize just how, uh, extensive. Masonic Charities reach at the lodge level, at the, uh, grand Lodge, Masonic Charities level. Uh, you know, sometimes some people see the, uh, Masonic Cancer Center at the university or the, the, uh, uh, center for the Developing Brain. Yep. Another new initiative. And they see the word Masonic on it, but Masonic doesn't register. Right. It's, they're focused on every, on the, on the, on the main name. But, um. Masonic charity isn't always the big things like that. It's the extent of the scholarships of the, I mean, every lodge, it seems, has a scholarship program. Uh, Minnesota Masonic Charities has a scholarship program. Uh, the, the encouragement of study and learning, uh, lodges do things like, uh, books for bikes, where children in, you know, fourth or fifth grade can, Earn bicycles by yeah, there's been a lot of very creative ways that masons have provided philanthropic support one of the things that we talked about yesterday was the fact that once upon a time the uh, the the masons were responsible for Cemeteries all over the state. That's right. And many of those cemeteries are still owned by masonic organizations, you know, they, uh, they, they created them and they maintain them. And, you know, there was also talk about the fact that the Masonic lodge was the place where public events could take place, like voting and polling and those types of things. So it'll be very fun. We don't want to get too deep into it. We're going to have to have Paul back, a few months from now and find out how, how things are going. How fast can you turn it around? Well, when the guy who's underwriting it's in his mid 90s, it can't be fast enough, but I suppose we know how, uh, how important it is to get it right. What else do you have on the radar for, for fun? I'm sure this is, there's a fun factor of this for you. It's a labor of love, but what else planned for the summertime with your wife, family? I, I plan to spend plenty of time at the lake. Uh, maybe, uh, do a little fishing here and there, a little berry picking. Just had a son get married, as I understand. Yes. Uh, my son was, uh, just married this last, this past weekend up in northern Minnesota and, uh, the weather even cooperated despite everything else that's been going on weather wise. Uh, it seems like quite a year where we go from, uh, extreme drought to, uh, flooding in the course of, uh, just a few weeks. But, uh, it all worked out. Well, Paul, we are grateful for you coming in. And, uh, we look very much forward to, uh, I look forward to reading Sherman's Woodticks. I, uh, am not a big reader. I would really hope that that book was a book on tape. Are we working on that? Maybe read, you could read it to me. That would be terrific. You've got a lovely voice. Paul and I can work on that. Yeah, that we can, we can give you a soothing sound to listen to about civil war, but even more enthusiastic about the, uh, the project that you're currently working on. So thank you for your time and, uh, off we go. Thank you for having me.