Many Voices, One Call is the podcast you did not even know you needed! It is a space for courageous, honest, open, and unscripted conversations about diversity, equity, inclusion, teaching, learning, and all the other things that move us. It is where students, faculty, staff, alumni, leadership and community guests reinvent higher education one episode at a time.
In Season 1, episode 1, co-hosts Jennifer (SGA President) and Babette (History Professor) talk with guests Destany and Adam (students), as well as Imari and Rae (faculty) about "One Year of Pandemic Learning."
The views voiced on this episode reflect the lived experiences and uncensored opinions of the guests; they do not necessarily capture the full diversity of attitudes within a larger community, nor do they express an official view of SUNY Schenectady.
Many Voices, One Call is the podcast you did not even know you needed! It is a space for courageous, honest, open, and unscripted conversations about diversity, equity, inclusion, teaching, learning, and all the other things that move us. It is where students, faculty, staff, alumni, leadership and community guests reinvent higher education one episode at a time.
In Season 1, episode 1, co-hosts Jennifer (SGA President) and Babette (History Professor) talk with guests Destany and Adam (students), as well as Imari and Rae (faculty) about "One Year of Pandemic Learning."
The views voiced on this episode reflect the lived experiences and uncensored opinions of the guests; they do not necessarily capture the full diversity of attitudes within a larger community, nor do they express an official view of SUNY Schenectady.
Babette Faehmel: [00:00:11]
Hello, this is “Many Voices One Call,” the podcast you didn't know you wanted. It's a space for courageous, honest, open and unscripted conversations about diversity, equity, inclusion, teaching, learning, and all the other things that move us. It's where students, faculty staff, alumni, leadership and community guests reinvent higher education, one episode at a time. So today, with us here in the studio, is Jennifer Malave and you are.
Jennifer Malave: [00:00:40]
Jennifer Malave.
Babette Faehmel, Co-host: [00:00:42]
And you are?
Jennifer Malave: [00:00:43]
I am the Student Government Association President.
Babette Faehmel: [00:00:46]
And Jennifer is also a Human Service student major, and you are soon going to do the commencement address, correct?
Jennifer Malave: [00:00:54]
Yes, I am. I'm very nervous about that.
Babette Faehmel: [00:00:56]
We're all very excited.
Babette Faehmel: [00:00:57]
My name is Babette Faehmel. I teach history at SUNY Schenectady, and I coordinate the mentoring program. And then there's also with us Adam Montross.
Adam Montross: [00:01:07]
Yes, Adam Montross, I am a teacher's education transfer student and a senator on the Student Government as well.
Babette Faehmel: [00:01:17]
And further in the studio is Rae Ellen Doyle.
Rae Doyle: [00:01:22]
Hi, I am a professor in the Liberal Arts Division, and I teach the Communication courses.
Babette Faehmel: [00:01:27]
And joining us through Zoom from a location far away is Imari Shaw. Imari, can you introduce yourself?
Imari Shaw: [00:01:38]
Hello, good afternoon everyone. I am Dr. Imari Shaw and I teach Biology at SUNY Schenectady.
Babette Faehmel: [00:01:48]
And also Zooming in is Destany Jackson. Destany, introduce yourself?
Destany Jackson: [00:01:55]
Hey, I'm Destany Jackson. I'm a human services and teacher education transfer, and I'm also an SGA senator.
Babette Faehmel: [00:02:04]
All right, so that's awesome. So we are gathered together here today to just chit chat about one year of pandemic learning how that was for us, what worked, what didn't work, what we want to change, and what our hopes are for the future. So, does anybody want to start?
Adam Montross: [00:02:30]
Yeah. So I'm in a very unique situation. I am 43 years old. I made the decision to be a teacher much later in life than most students, and I was put in an actually perfect situation, which I didn't understand at the time. I had made the decision sometime last year. I said I was going to go back and teach. All the teachers—. I'm a paraprofessional, so I work in the school district. I do instructional para, so I pull students for learning, and so many teacher friends of mine were like, “You got to go back. You got to get your degree.” So, I made the decision to do that.
Adam Montross: [00:03:02]
And then March 13th, which was my birthday, hit last year and that was it. The bomb dropped. We were all in COVID. We were all in quarantine, and everything was great. And then I was working for the school doing, you know, virtual work, helping out teachers, et cetera. And then September came: Schenectady School District decided we're going to lay essentially everyone off—and it was heartbreaking. It was interesting, but it kind of coincided in a very perfect way that that was the beginning of my school. So, I had an opportunity to take my kids to school, make my wife breakfast and go downstairs and sit in front of the computer and have six to eight hours to just do work, and it was perfect.
Adam Montross: [00:03:49]
I mean I watched, Babette, so many of your lessons.
Babette Faehmel: [00:03:49]
Oh, I’m sorry.
Adam Montross: [00:03:51]
My wife knows you just by virtue of hearing your voice through my speaker system downstairs. So, I would watch all the history lessons and the lectures, and then I would have free form to write whatever I wanted to write. So, doing a two-page paper meant, okay, I just have to carve out part of this afternoon. So, everything was doing great, and I'd really gotten into it. I enjoyed 3.92 GPA last semester. Everything was awesome.
Adam Montross: [00:04:18]
And then I get a call, literally the end of February, and it was Human Resources at Schenectady School District. They said, “hey, do you want to come back?” And I'm like “yeah,” and they said, “when can you start?” I said, “can I start tomorrow?” And I went back. But what I've realized now is I had a perfect opportunity to have my time to do work, and now I'm in a school district again, which is very taxing emotionally, physically…all day long. And then I turn around and go home and let's make dinner, let's get the kids ready, get the kids to practice for music. And now I'm trying to carve out time at night to do the work that I was. So, it was a blessing in disguise. In the middle of the quarantine,
Adam Montross: [00:04:55]
I remember seeing my wife. She's a human resources director for the Department of Environmental Conservation. She's been at roughly 20% this entire time, so she's been working one day—. All of us! What a perfect, in a very odd way, what a perfect opportunity this was. I had the longest weekend of my life. It was 341 days. I was from March 14th to March 1st in 2021, where we were home together, we were nestled together, and I had an opportunity to start my learning career again in that environment. So that was looking back, what an opportunity we had. But now I'm trying to recalibrate. So, you know, when I had a midterm paper for Civilization pre-'60s, 50s four pages I had to figure out the time at night to do that where it used to be okay.
Adam Montross: [00:05:46]
I can sit in the morning and craft my time, and I'm sure that my situation is unique to me. But all students have situations that are unique to them, have challenges that are unique to them, and opportunities that they may have that maybe I didn't enjoy.
Babette Faehmel: [00:06:01]
Yeah, so speaking of unique opportunities, Destany, do you want to talk about your experience?
Destany Jackson: [00:06:09]
Of course. Well, covid was good and bad for me. Last, it was in the middle of fall semester, which was like September, November. I had to relocate. I'm currently in Georgia. I'm trying to head back to New York, but either way, um, covid was tragic for a lot of people, but it gave me the opportunity to continue my education without just dropping out or completely losing it. You know, and it has been, I've still been a part of SGA. I've still been a part of EOP, Trio…
Destany Jackson: [00:06:52]
I'm still able to feel like Schenectady is my home even though I'm a thousand miles away, and that's the best part about online learning, and it's really been a blessing to me.
Babette Faehmel: [00:07:08]
Wow, that's awesome! Um, so I'm amazed that you feel connected even from that remote distance. But that's also probably because you are in SGA, right?
Destany Jackson: [00:07:16]
Yeah, it definitely keeps me connected.
Babette Faehmel: [00:07:20]
And did you…did you and Jen know one another already before the lockdown?
Jennifer Malave: [00:07:25]
We did not.
Destany Jackson: [00:07:25]
No, I met Jen in SGA…
Babette Faehmel: [00:07:28]
Virtually.
Jennifer Malave: [00:07:29]
Yeah, and you’re one of my best friends now.
Destany Jackson: [00:07:32]
I've made all my friends virtually. So, for the past year, all my friends I've made virtually.
Babette Faehmel: [00:07:39]
That is awesome. Because, honestly, that's like one of the first things you read about, like, the bad of COVID learning and teaching is that students don't have connections, and they feel like isolated and alienated and it's really, like, hurting them.
Destany Jackson: [00:07:55]
It's different with professors, but student connection is the same to me.
Babette Faehmel: [00:08:01]
So okay, that's interesting. So, you think, like the, the connection with the professors is not so good?
Destany Jackson: [00:08:06]
I don't think it's not so good. I think it depends, um, some classes you don't see the professor, some you do.
Babette Faehmel: [00:08:14]
What do you mean?
Destany Jackson: [00:08:15]
Like I'm on…on Zoom calls or Collaborate.
Babette Faehmel: [00:08:20]
Oh, you don't see them?
Destany Jackson: [00:08:23]
Some, right.
Jennifer Malave: [00:08:25]
Yeah, I have teachers that I have…I have no idea what they look like because they've never turned on their…
Destany Jackson: [00:08:28]
It's weird.
Babette Faehmel: [00:08:30]
Okay, so if this, if the teacher lives in a…in a location where they don't have reliable wi-fi, is that?
Destany Jackson: [00:08:36]
Maybe, maybe because I I don't have reliable wi-fi half the time, honestly. And then with the emails, it's hard to kind of hear somebody's voice or know their tone of voice…
Babette Faehmel: [00:08:30]
Oh God, yeah.
Destany Jackson: [00:08:50]
Or you know, you don't get the nonverbal and verbal, um, signals anymore.
Destany Jackson: [00:08:57]
It's kind of like you read it how you want to read it, and that's how it goes. And it and you get nervous, like do I really want to send this like three paragraph email? Or, do I want to kind of shorten it down and make it simple? So you kind of don't always get your point across, but I think I…I do think that the professor connection is different in online learning, whereas the student connection it kind of got stronger.
Babette Faehmel: [00:09:22]
That is fascinating, Jen. Is that how you feel, too?
Jennifer Malave: [00:09:24]
I feel that, yeah, with the professors, I definitely feel that you're not as connected because you don't get to like stay after class and chit chat with them, get to know them, let them get to know you as a student. And as far as students, I think it pushed us to work harder at having connections. Like on the SGA we do a lot of activities together. We keep doing activities for the school, for everybody to get the opportunity to socialize.
Rae Doyle: [00:09:50]
Yeah, can I jump in there for a second? Of course, so I had a really interesting experience. A student last fall. She emailed me and she started her email by saying, “how are you today, professor Doyle? I really was wondering how your week is going, how your weekend was”, and then we just started a conversation and it was really fascinating.
Rae Doyle: [00:10:11]
And now I have her again this semester because I feel that too, I miss that interaction with my students and being able to just chat after class and I feel like it's not the same, and so when she did that, it changed the way that I now email my students, and so I'll ask how are you? I use a lot of like smiley faces and things like that to try and get that tone across.
Babette Faehmel: [00:10:33]
And Imari, you must be able to relate to that, right, because you were one of the professors—. Because Imari and I we had offices like adjacent to each other before COVID, and there were always students in our office and always after hours and tutorials and stuff like that. So, Imari, how do you forge connections in the classroom?
Imari Shaw: [00:10:54]
I feel like you know, because after class that's when students want to talk to you and sometimes they end up telling you all kinds of things about them that that you would never, ever know. Do you know what I mean?
Imari Shaw: [00:11:05]
But during the in-class session I realized I have made my in-class session, um, a lot less formal in the virtual setting. Yeah, um, it's a lot less formal. It's a lot more digressions, it's a lot more just casual talk, um, and so I think that's the beauty of being virtual. But, um, as far as um, that like after-class connection where you talk and you get to see your students face and they tell you about oh you know, “my daughter did this today,” you know, whatever um you don't have that anymore.
Babette Faehmel: [00:11:39]
The students are trying harder. I had a student who had like a meltdown the other day, and the students were back the next week and they were all trying to make him feel good and assure him like “no, you got this, we got you, we’ll get you through.” That's awesome. Adam…
Adam Montross: [00:11:55]
So, it's interesting because I had the exact opposite experience. Mostly, I think, because the first semester that I had, everything was asynchronous. So, I forged a relationship with most of my professors. I knew a number of students through bulletin board because a lot of the courses were particularly…you would write a discussion, you would discuss a topic and then it would be on you. Your onus would be to have a conversation with two additional students. You would notice that certain students would be the first to post, so you're very often responding to them and you would find that the same students were responding to you. But beyond those handful of students, I'd never really forged —outside of the Student Government—I never really forged a relationship with many of the students.
Adam Montross: [00:12:41]
There may have been 20 kids in the course that I was in, and outside of having a couple people that I, on a regular basis would have discussions on the bulletin boards, I didn't really make a lot of friends or compatriots. Having said that, I also found that I had students reaching out to me—because I would write long posts and whatnot—that would ask me questions. One student, in particular, would ask me about a professor that she was having an issue with, and in that way that was very much like being in an actual classroom environment. But there was definitively, last semester, I felt like somewhat of a wall between myself and the other students, which is…I was hopeful pre-COVID, that I was looking forward.
Adam Montross: [00:13:25]
You know, it's weird to be the old guy in class, the chubby, white, bald guy that looks like everybody's dad, but I was kind of going to lean into that a little bit. So, having that wall, there's no real discussion. You know you don't find that friend that's also a Bills fan you can talk about sports or you know, uh, or that you politically align with in an election cycle to have a conversation with. So, I didn't really feel melded. But I did feel melded with my professors more because we had an open conversation and discussions about grades and about assignments and whatnot, so I have a different experience.
Babette Faehmel: [00:14:01]
Yeah, I mean it's almost like the students who are in this conversation right now Jen, Destany, Adam and also some of the students that I have in mind right now in my classes. They are…they would honestly…they would succeed in any environment, like in class, virtual or whatever. If we have to have classes on the parking lot and in a hailstorm, they would still like they would still learn, but they are probably…
Babette Faehmel: [00:14:28]
I mean, you guys, you guys go out of your way to forge connections. You are, you are reaching out to professors, you are, you already have all the soft skills that you are supposed to have or acquire in college. But…but what I worry about are the students who check into, for instance, into a synchronous class, and you know they're not there, they're locked on, but they probably have a Netflix tab open or something like that. So, what are your impressions there? I mean, do you think that's the majority or a significant minority? I mean, do you think that's the majority or like a significant minority?
Jennifer Malave: [00:15:03]
I would say that's a large percentage of the students actually from what I noticed. Like Adam, I have to agree. In the beginning it was hard, like I had to work hard at forging relationships and friendships and stuff, and it also happened the same thing through the chat.
Jennifer Malave: [00:15:27]
Like somebody will notice that I always post my stuff early and reach out to ask if I have notes for next week or for a class that they missed, and I just learned to work with that and be like, oh my God, a sign of life. How are you? My name is Jen. What other classes are you taking? But yeah, for the students that are not, it forced me to be more outgoing. But for students that are not outgoing, yeah, this definitely had to be hard.
Babette Faehmel: [00:15:47]
Yeah, Destany, how do you feel about that?
Destany Jackson: [00:15:51]
I was so excited to talk because I actually feel like I'm a hardworking student. I'm not going to say that I'm not. I feel disconnected from my professors and that makes me feel like I'm not being the best student, even if I am trying my best. And I think that, even though COVID started in January 2020, let’s say, I don't feel like it's hitting until now. Like I was perfectly fine the whole year, and it's just now affecting me. Even though it's come so far and there's the vaccination, I still feel like right now is the first semester.
Destany Jackson: [00:16:35]
Well, last semester was actually the one that it hit me, but it didn't hit me hard. And this semester it hit me hard and now I'm like, wow, like it. To be honest, it made me question, like how am I as a student? But I think that there's…there's so many different things that go into it. Like I said, the interaction with my professors. I talk to everybody. I could talk all day. I literally will talk your head off, but since it it's email, since there's not open office hours, I have to read a syllabus to get all my questions answered, since there's like so…so many different protocols.
Destany Jackson: [00:17:15]
I feel like I'm not learning, and I feel like it's affecting me as a student. It's affecting me not just as a student, but mentally, and like I'm questioning myself as a student. You know what I mean—If you understand what I'm saying.
Babette Faehmel: [00:17:31]
I know exactly what you mean. So and it's fascinating that it's the same from the student perspective because I had, like it hit me maybe a month ago and it hit me like a train, like I was totally fine actually. Because I mean I'm honestly, I'm an introvert, I don't really need people, I'm totally fine communicating and writing. But like I was really like at the turn of a—and it was one day to the next, all of a sudden I felt I had like for the first time in my life, like depression or something like that. So and I mean it's—then I Googled it, I Googled my symptoms and apparently that's totally like average. Like it's COVID burnout, so anybody else burned out?
Jennifer Malave: [00:18:19]
Yes, I think being on the screens all the time is like I think that's the worst part for me. Like it's all day. Your classes are on screen, your meetings are on screen, everything is on screen, and it's like by the end of the day, you have a headache, your eyes hurt. Your head hurts.
Babette Faehmel: [00:18:39]
It's like it's harder. I mean you have to be really self-motivated, and honestly, I can kind of. I mean there's something about this whole setup that is it's so tempting to multitask, even though, like, rationally I know multitasking is a myth I…I know like it's it doesn't work. It's not, it doesn't work for the brain. Like you have to do it like successively, but I have filled many of my Instacarts while I'm sitting in division meeting and then you miss half of it, right? So yeah, how about you guys?
Jennifer Malave: [00:19:10]
I have to force myself to come onto campus so that I'm not distracted by Netflix or Hulu or playing with the dog. So I stay focused because, it's true, like you're tempted to “oh, I can cook dinner while I attend this meeting, or I could…” and then you catch yourself like, “oh no, what did she just ask?” Yeah, so it's. It's definitely very tempting to get distracted and not do what you're supposed to yeah, how about you, Destany? Des?
Destany Jackson: [00:19:43]
I'm here. I’m sorry. My phone…
Babette Faehmel: [00:19:46]
Were you multitasking?
Destany Jackson: [00:19:49]
No, no. Haha! (Group laughter)
Jennifer Malave: [00:19:52]
Good timing on that one.
Destany Jackson: [00:19:54]
So, my phone locked and it started…you know, my phone was like tripping out and either way, that's so funny. But um, I actually like, yeah, I don't usually, I just like, personally, I just cut on the lecture, and I might walk off for like an hour and be like let go back and listen, which some of my professors record the lecture. That’s the good thing because when I'm ready to focus, I'll go back and listen to it.
Destany Jackson: [00:20:24]
But I just feel like there's definitely a difference. When I have to drive to school on my way driving or riding the bus, walking, whatever it was I'm thinking okay, so today in class we're going to go over this. I'm preparing myself to sit in class for an hour, I'm preparing myself for this, this and that, but now that we just have to kind of open our phone or laptop, then it's like I don't prepare my mind for anything.
Destany Jackson: [00:20:48]
I'm preparing my mind to think about what I'm gonna do while they're talking, and some of my classes don't, don't record the lecture, yeah, so usually I will sit there and I'll listen in, but I will be multitasking.
Babette Faehmel: [00:21:02]
Yeah.
Destany Jackson: [00:21:05]
And I have wireless headphones, so it's easy, for I'll usually clean up. That's what I usually do, because I don't have to put much thought into cleaning. It's not like I'm listening to the vac—. If I'm listening to the vacuum, I have in my headphones. They're noise cancellation, so I'm listening. I might not interpret the information, but I do listen you know.
Babette Faehmel: [00:21:26]
Yeah, yeah. So that's another thing, right? I mean like the kind of I had a student yesterday in my synchronous class. He said there is no hands-on learning online, it's just passive sitting there and then taking it in, and I can totally relate that…relate to that, and you don't necessarily learn that way. Somebody wanted to jump in, right?
Jennifer Malave: [00:21:49]
I was going to say, going back to multitasking, the other day I took it to a whole other level, and I attended two meetings at the same time on different laptops and kept having to mute to talk and then mute to talk. Yeah, so I think we’re getting carried away…
Babette Faehmel: [00:22:04]
Do you…do you remember anything about any of those meetings?
Jennifer Malave: [00:22:07]
Not as much as I should have, so it wasn’t good. But, yeah…I think we're getting really carried away with multitasking these days.
Babette Faehmel: [00:22:15]
I mean that just brings up for me like another thing, like distractions, right? Because, honestly, at first it was only pretty much just me in my…in my apartment building doing the online learning, and like sometimes the birds chirping outside would intrude. But everything else was just like me and like my task. But then my housemate, um, lost his job, and now he's constantly there. Now there's constantly like somebody, like…like I don't know, stomping around on top of me and I just like I realized how frazzled I am and how like I don't know how, like, how like anxious I am all the time, just because these little things all of a sudden are such big problems. I don't…I can—, honestly, I cannot imagine how you can do this and survive mentally, like mentally intact with like mentally, like mentally intact with like parenting and…and doing like all this online virtual stuff. Rae, I know that you have kiddies around, right, I do, and Imari, Imari, you too. So how does…how…what is that like?
Rae Doyle: [00:23:17]
It's a challenge. Um, like Fridays are my worst day of the week. My son…they just started, at the beginning of March, having him go to school from 9 to 11. So, I have to…and I drive him to school because I didn't want him riding the school bus because of COVID. And so I have to leave my house at 8.30 in the morning for a nine o'clock drop off, even though the school is seven minutes away, because every parent of three elementary schools is dropping off at the exact same time. And then I get home around 9.15, 9.20, and then I have to go back to the school at 10.30 to pick him up, and then I have a division meeting at noon, and then I have another meeting at 1.30. And so it's just…Fridays are terrible, and it's so stressful while I'm trying to get them to do his PE and grade and answer emails. So it's a lot, and that's just Friday.
Babette Faehmel: [00:24:09]
Wow! And, Imari, how is it for you?
Imari Shaw: [00:24:10]
For me it's a little different. I…My daughter's homeschooled and she's always been, but she's young: she's five. So for me it's a little different, which is kind of great, but at the same time it's hard when you're trying to keep them at bay, keep them out of your meetings or keep them out of your class session or keep them busy or occupied and you know, um, so that's really the tough. But I think so many people are understanding now…
Imari Shaw: [00:24:40]
Right, and we were talking about this before that you know people are understanding and so they understand when you know a dog goes in the picture or your child goes in and waves everybody or wants to talk, show the legos or whatever, because my daughter loves legos and she wants to show the whole class. Um, so you know, that's pretty tough. Like Rae said, I feel like just going to class you feel like you've done work for that hour, or three hours if it's a six to nine, and then to turn around to grade the work that you've given them or to, um, you know, you know, update their grade books and do all those other things. It's a lot. It's just a lot
Babette Faehmel: [00:25:20]
Yeah, yeah, I…I have to say, like what you just said, I mean, the cool thing is that, in a way, we all became more human. Yeah, through all of this, I mean, like my students know, my room, like my, my, my, like my living room and whatnot, um, and like like they all do, right, I mean Imari. I think we were talking the other day about how your students are asking you about your wall decoration.
Jennifer Malave: [00:25:48]
It was us. It was us. I was like, “what's that behind you? No, higher, higher.”
Babette Faehmel: [00:25:56]
Yeah, I mean that's kind of cool right, because, like this sort of, there's this professional distance between teacher and student that’s I don’t know...
Jennifer Malave: [00:26:02]
Yeah, it's crazy because if you think about it like a really, really, really long time ago, the teacher was somebody that was part of a small town that everyone knew and you were all so close and your roles were so mixed up, like you were half parent, half teacher and now, like for legal reasons and a million other reasons, everything is so serious and disconnected and be careful like you can't even give a kid like a pat on the back.
Jennifer Malave: [00:26:30]
These days without you know, raising some flags. So yeah, it's cool to be able to like get a sneak peek into your lives and see, like, your living room, or meet your kids, or discover that, hey, you're a pet lover too. Like so, yeah, I think it's kind of cool. It helps connect us a little more.
Babette Faehmel: [00:26:47]
So there are definitely like good things about COVID. I'm just like to…to our virtual learning. But to return back to the, to the kids who, just who you never see, who never reach out to you, who don't write you emails like “hi professor, how are you doing?” But it's like “when is this due?” How do we reach them?
Adam Montross: [00:27:08]
So you were obviously professors for some time before COVID. Similar problems probably existed for students that were actually in a class right, and those students you probably found at certain times were just unreachable or that difficulty…it's just a new form of that difficulty, wouldn't you say? That's probably…
Babette Faehmel: [00:27:30]
So you're saying well, they were lost before.
Adam Montross: [00:27:33]
No, I'm in the…I getting ready to become a teacher. You can't abandon any student, but
Adam Montross: [00:27:44]
I guess it would present harder difficulties than saying to somebody in class hey, I need you to pay attention or to talk to them as they're going outside of class. How do you do that to a student that doesn't turn their camera on or that doesn't turn their microphone on? I don't know. It takes the volition of the student themselves to want to do that and to want to be involved. Um, you know what they say you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make a drink, and I witnessed that with students in a classroom, I'll say, “hey, shut YouTube off.” You can do it, and maybe they'll turn off for a minute or two until you make another sweep around the room. So you know, I don't know the answer to that.
Babette Faehmel: [00:28:23]
Yeah.
Destany Jackson: [00:28:23]
I think that, like in class, it's uh, I actually was talking about this yesterday with like a random person, but, um…I think that like our vibe when we're in the classroom…
Destany Jackson: [00:28:35]
If you're a happy, or at least a decently happy—I'm not gonna say we're all super happy—but when you're in the classroom and everybody's engaging, it's kind of awkward to not engage. But when you're online and no…like everybody's engaging but you're not. It's like, “oh, my mic…my mic doesn't work, my computer's broken.” You know? It's like I don't…it's like an excuse. You can give excuses, whereas when you're in person, it's like I don't, it's like an excuse, you can give excuses, whereas when you're in person, it's kind of like, “uh, well, I'm here and they can see me,” so I can't just make up an excuse. And one thing that I think that we feel like when it's online, we don't have to say, “hey, how are you?” We don't have to say, “how's your day? How was weekend?” Most of the time when I log on the class, it's “okay, let's get started.”
Babette Faehmel: [00:29:25]
Yeah. That’s how I’m like in meetings.
Jennifer Malave: [00:29:27]
It's so awkward to even try to (unclear) now.
Destany Jackson: [00:29:30]
I understand because it's so frustrating how we're on the computer all day, but I think that's where, like, what Adam was saying, most people don't cut on their camera or use their microphone, but it's…it's like a disconnection. The…because you don't start the conversation off as an open conversation like “how was y'all's weekend? How was y'all's night last night? Was the homework too hard?” You know like simple questions that you ask when in person. And especially, most especially, most students get to class early, so that opens the conversation.
Babette Faehmel: [00:30:06]
Yeah, that's a good point.
Adam Montross: [00:30:08]
It doesn't help everybody, because there's nothing worse than when a teacher asks a question and then just dead air. And I'm always the one to jump in, but then I feel like I'm trying to dominate the conversation when I'm not. I'm just trying to be polite and provide something, because that dead air is just it's…I feel for the professor, I feel for the students, but just there's…you see seven, eight names sitting there and not one person jumping in to have this conversation.
Babette Faehmel: [00:30:35]
Yeah, I can…I can guarantee you I will never open any of my recorded Blackboard classes that only have my face on it, because I know what I do when these like, like these silences happen, like the way my body and my face contorts and the sort of like weird movements I make. I don't need to see that shit.
Jennifer Malave: [00:30:54]
We were talking about that: how we spend most of the time in meetings looking at our little box, our little video and like “oh my god, my hair looks a mess,” or “why did I wear that?” Like I was gonna say that there really is no real concrete answer to your question.
Babette Faehmel: [00:31:08]
I think at the end of the day.
Jennifer Malave: [00:31:09]
It comes back to what we said about friendships and it's just making that extra effort, and I know teachers have so much to do now and have been asked to really, really step it up with making PowerPoints and videos and presentations and hours of work before they even get into the classroom. But I think it's like what Rae said before, like, now just taking those few moments, and I think what Destany and Adam were getting to, like just taking those few moments to say “how are you?” to make a connection.
Jennifer Malave: [00:31:39]
I think if we all just put a little more effort, like what Adam said, showing up five minutes early to class gives you the opportunity to chit-chat before it gets serious.
Adam Montross: [00:31:49]
Well, Jen and I are working on something for student government. It's for a virtual suicide prevention walk-a-thon, and Ben was nice enough to give us the scripts to make phone calls. And what I realized I have a past history in sales. What I realized was that when I make the phone call and there's a script there and when I call I say “hi, I'm Adam from SUNY Schenectady, I'm with student government and I'm looking…” and I rattle off this information. Immediately, people that answer the phone are on guard and think in your own if you receive a phone call—and if it's not for extended car warranty but for something else…a real human—the first thing, when you hear that, I'm being pitched.
Adam Montross: [00:32:29]
Oh, they're throwing this at me. You go into guard mode and…and I think that that probably happens too in virtual classes when you get into a classroom and okay, it's, here's data, here's data, here's data, here's assignment…If it's more conversational…like I called a local restaurant and the closest I came to closing something was “oh, I know the bartender there. I used to work with her over at a recovery room.” That conversationalism made them immediately feel less at guard. So, when you're having a conversation inside of a class, maybe it's less “okay, here's what we're doing.” It does so much rote. Here's the instruction…It's just a thought.
Jennifer Malave: [00:33:05]
So it's also the soft skills of the professors who are really in demand. Right, because, like, somebody has to kind of, like I don't know, like, create that sort of classroom culture. Right, yeah, because conversational, not guarded, camera on, no matter what your hair looks like, or what your room looks like.
Adam Montross: [00:33:26]
One of the things that I recall from last semester is…I had you for Civilization pre-1650 or post-1650, and you gave me this really astute observation. It was a critique, but it was really well written. It says something along the lines of I “have a keen mind for civilization, but sometimes I have superfluous prose.”
Adam Montross: [00:33:47]
I talk too much, but it was great! And I realized, absolutely, yeah, I get it. I tend to try and sound like the smartest guy in the room, not intentionally, I just do, I like to and I realized that it was coming across my writing. I'm not writing a creative writing paper, I'm trying to write an essay about civilization. So I remember sending you a note back and I was like should I send this or not? And it was a quote from the office. It was Kevin from the office. He says “why use many word when few do trick?” And I sent it to you, and your response was a gif. And it was Jim Carrey from Bruce Almighty and he's typing like this and he's typing a thousand words a minute. And that was endearing. It made me feel okay, that was conversational in tone, and it kind of reinforced the message, the critique that you had earlier said.
Jennifer Malave: [00:34:37]
Yeah, I was just saying that I agree with Destany. The “no exceptions” rule is insane during any time.
Jennifer Malave: [00:34:42]
Let's be honest because—shit happens. Like, it's life, but during COVID, I really feel that it's insane that they're allowed to do that. Like as a human being, just knowing everything that's going on in the world, how do you not have that compassion? And again I want to make it clear, I have a lot of awesome teachers that do reach out, like even way after I've taken their classes and stuff still reach out to check on me or to congratulate me for something. So there's a lot of wonderful professors that definitely go all out the way, but there's also a few that are set in their ways, and it's like kind of like what you said, like you really have to ask yourself what is your point here? Is your point to be right? Is your point to be hard? Or is your point for your students to learn? And at the end of the day, I get it. I believe in deadlines. I believe in…that teaches you. It teaches you responsibilities; it prepares you for real life.
Jennifer Malave: [00:35:42]
But exceptions have to be made once in a while because, again, we're all only human. And if your child is sick, you shouldn't have to contemplate and try to weigh out, “Do I risk this kid freaking dying because you know, this professor says ‘no exceptions’?” Like yeah, there's a lot of things going on. Like now you're a teacher, you're…most of your kids are at home still, so you're like trying to have your own zoom meeting for school but you're trying to get them to do what they have to do for their zoom meetings.
Jennifer Malave: [00:36:13]
Like there's a lot going on you're taking care of, like, maybe your parents or somebody…like there's so much going on, people are losing their jobs left and right, you're worried about how you're gonna put food on the table or keep a roof over your kids’ heads—and no exceptions? That's insane. So, I wish that's something that, um, professors would look at and try to remember what it was like. Like sometimes when I talk to my professors, like, they tell me that they remember what it was like being a student and how they struggled whether it was financially or, you know, with that kind of support. Like I can't imagine…to go through the things that, like, Destany went through and a teacher sitting there telling me “Well, it was in the syllabus. No exceptions.”
Jennifer Malave: [00:36:57]
Like, no. So, that's something I really hope that we can improve upon.
Babette Faehmel: [00:37:01]
Yeah, and…
Rae Doyle: [00:37:01]
I had a student—.
Babette Faehmel: [00:37:03]
…you do question yourself when you hear it. I mean, like, right now, I'm just like reviewing all my course policies in my head, right?
Jennifer Malave: [00:37:11]
See, that's great though.
Babette Faehmel: [00:37:13]
Yeah, but you know, like, sometimes it's just also…like you are desperately trying to manage your own workload, and then you are setting—yes, certain, like, certain requirements. Like…like I cannot, I'm not, I'm not, I cannot accept like five weeks of class work in the last week of the semester. It's because—.
Jennifer Malave: [00:37:33]
I think like I have a professor that he mentioned that today. He's awesome, um, he lets us hand in things when we're ready. He gives us a suggested date line, but he also points out to us that: A) he doesn't want to get saddled with 50 tests or your homeworks on the last day of school. Like he's not going to be in a great mood when he grades those. And he reminds us like you don't want the pressure of turning around, and it's freaking May 2nd,
Jennifer Malave: [00:38:03]
And you're like, “oh snap, I have like 50 assignments to turn in.” So, I think it should be a little bit of leniency, but also, of course, have some guidelines there. Set some boundaries. Like, that's fine, but just…a little consideration and understanding. Like, it's always good in life to question yourself…
Babette Faehmel: [00:38:20]
Yeah.
Jennifer Malave: [00:38:21]
…and to take a good look at yourself again. We get so set in our ways. Years pass. You don't realize 20 years has gone by. It's good to shake things up and look at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself, like, “am I doing this with the same passion that I did when I started? When I look out at these kids, do I honestly feel like I'm teaching them something? Am I gonna be a teacher that they remember? Like, am I gonna be a teacher that they remember because I was horrible? Like, it's good to question yourself sometimes. It helps bring out the best you you could be.
Babette Faehmel: [00:38:54]
And…and also the…okay, so you only question yourself as the teacher when you are having these kinds of conversations, I would say, right? Because otherwise you fall back into your old patterns and, like, I mean I learned the way like…well, I mean, like, I learned fine with like pretty conventional teaching techniques. Like when I was in undergraduate, there there was no PowerPoint. It was like one guy had a recording of Winston Churchill, and he was like the high tech professor. But, I mean like, so—
Jennifer Malave: [00:39:26]
I remember they used to wheel in the VCR.
Babette Faehmel: [00:39:27]
Yeah, exactly, exactly those carts!
Rae Doyle: [00:39:30]
Don’t you remember the overhead projectors?
Babette Faehmel: [00:39:34]
Yeah, the folios and stuff like that, exactly! So, if we, if we don't have conversations with students, that about our teaching, but about, like, conversations where…that are really open to change, right? Where you're…where you're not sitting there and just getting, like, I mean, like…there's a little voice in my head that gets defensive about…about, like, like, like…I don't know, like, a “no exception” policy because, like, I…I feel like I have to have that in order to protect myself.
Jennifer Malave: [00:39:59]
She's a no exception teacher. I knew it!
Babette Faehmel: [00:40:02]
Only one, only one. Only on one assignment, but anyways…But I mean you need to open. You need to be open to accept the student input, right? It's kind of otherwise—.
Jennifer Malave: [00:40:12]
Yeah, or else it's pointless.
Babette Faehmel: [00:40:14]
Yeah, ‘Cause we’re old.
Jennifer Malave: [00: 40:14]
Like, if at a regular job, I'm sure you have—or even at your jobs. I'm sure you have, like, reviews that they do every couple of years or something of your job performance. Like, it should be coming from your students because, honestly, like the president of the school is not sitting there in your classroom listening to your lecture or having to take your test or dealing with, you know? So, it will work out better, and think about it. You know how you said like you have students that are not engaged, that you're working really hard to reach and you can't reach. This is a way of reaching them. Like, you judge someone…Nowadays, we judge people within like three seconds of meeting them. So, you meet this teacher, and the first words out her words are like “no exceptions…”
Jennifer Malave: [00:40:59]
“I don't play around, I don't give chances.” Like, you're going to get a little intimidated, and you're not going to be as open to…But if you meet a teacher and she's like “hi, my name is such and such,” like…I don't know “what's your favorite color?” or whatever. Like, it just sets a different tone and a different energy between you.
Rae Doyle: [00:41:16]
I had a student one semester who said, “your syllabus sounded really mean. I'm really glad I stayed with the class ‘cause you're amazing.” And I was like “whoa.” (unclear) even think about it.
Jennifer Malave: [00:41:24]
But you see…You don't realize the effect, like.
Rae Doyle: [00:41:27]
Right, right, yeah, and I was like, “It sounded mean?
Jennifer Malave: [00:41:30]
And you should all be warned: I'm a big fan of Rate your Professor.
Babette Faehmel: [00:41:34]
You are?
Jennifer Malave: [00:41:35]
Oh, hell yeah…
Babette Faehmel: [00:41:36]
That thing is still active?
Jennifer Malave: [00:41:38]
Yes, and I love it. I don't make a decision without it.
Babette Faehmel: [00:41:40]
Wow, I have…I...okay, I avoid that site.
Jennifer Malave: [00:41:45]
Des, remind me. We got to check hers out as soon as we wrap this up.
Babette Faehmel: [00:41:51]
There was…Years ago, I had a student say, like, “she ruined my love for history forever,” and I'm like, oh, ouch!
Jennifer Malave: [00:41:58]
Wow.
Babette Faehmel: [00:42:00]
That hurts me! Maybe the next conversation will then be about what? Like, how to make virtual learning perfect? How to collaborate with our students on designing the nicest sounding syllabus? (Group laughter)
Jennifer Malave: [00:42:19]
I like that one. I like that one. (Group laughter continues)
Destany Jackson: [00:42:21]
I like that one too.
Babette Faehmel: [00:42:26]
I would really like to know that.
Destany Jackson: [00:42:28]
I think—.
Jennifer Malave: [00:42:29]
Destany, we might have to come up…we might have to recommend it.
Destany Jackson: [00:42:32]
I was about to say…This is about to be a research study, right here. We’re about to get in the books. But I think, I think that we're going with the flow, because soon we'll be back in class.
Babette Faehmel: [00:42:45]
Let's just hope so. Let's hope, so we all get vaccinated. The magic word: let's get vaccinated so that we can all get back to the classroom. Any other final thoughts? Adam?
Adam Montross: [00:43:02]
The same thing I've been saying since all this started, and I say it to everybody. This is all new. This is uncharted territory for all of us, unless you were around in 1918 for the Spanish flu, and even then it was a different world. And cut yourself some slack, everybody, if you're not doing great as a student, if you're overburdened as a professor. Remember to cut yourself some slack. Because we forget to do that. We get so wrapped up in everything we forget, “I'm doing okay.” Cut yourself some slack.
Babette Faehmel: [00:43:33]
Good, yeah, that's very important. That's like have grace and like, yeah, totally Like be kind to yourself. Rae. I just love that and the meat chair.
Rae Doyle: [00:43:41]
I just love that. I'm getting all teary.
Babette Faehmel: [00:43:46]
Oh.
Rae Doyle: [00:43:47]
I've had a day, and this was wonderful.
Babette Faehmel: [00:43:51]
All right, cool. ‘Til the next episode of—what's it called again?—Many Voices, One Call. Thank you for listening and for your participation, and have a fantastic day.
Jennifer Malave: [00:44:04]
Have an awesome one.
Babette Faehmel: [00:44:08]
The opinions and viewpoints expressed on this podcast are entirely those of the hosts and the guests and do not necessarily represent those of any of the faculty or employees of SUNY Schenectady County Community College.