Debunking Marriage Myths, The Truth About Divorce Rates, & More

Many people believe myths about marriage. In this video, Dr. Joe Beam and Kimberly Beam Holmes from Marriage Helper dispel some of the most common myths, providing insights based on their decades of experience helping couples save their marriages.

They discuss:
- The myth that engagement equals commitment
- The myth that divorce rates are improving
- The myth that finances and infidelity are the main reasons for divorce
- The myth that seeking professional help is a sign of failure

If you're struggling in your marriage, don't give up hope! There are resources available to help you rebuild your marriage. Marriage Helper offers a free consultation to help you determine the best path forward. Save your marriage and visit https://marriagehelper.com/booknow to learn more.

Relationship Radio is hosted by CEO of Marriage Helper, Kimberly Beam Holmes, and founder of Marriage Helper, Dr. Joe Beam.

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Transcript

The Myths of Marriage Commitment

Speaker 1 0:00

You know we talk a lot about how that people get jealous and people become insecure and that what drives that typically is I'm afraid that you won't be here for me when I need you. How do you become one with a person who refuses the ultimate commitment to that?

Speaker 2 0:18

Well, let me put it this way I don't want to be married to a person who's looking for the loopholes don't want to be married to a person who's looking for the loopholes.

Speaker 1 0:29

I taught human sexuality at a local university here in Nashville, tennessee, for eight years. One of my favorite things to say to a student was some of the comments they would make when some of the questions they would ask is that's a myth? Because they had so many misunderstandings about sex because of the myths that they had heard. Well, this program is not about sex, but it is about myths Myths when it comes to marriage. Let's talk about some of the most common myths and help people understand what really is true as opposed to what they think may be true. Hi, I'm Dr Joe Beam with Marriage Helper. This is Kimberly Beam Holmes, our CEO Now. Kimberly, I know that you've been running into a myth a lot lately. Let's start with that one.

Speaker 2 1:11

I have. I have heard several people say that engagement for them, they believe is the actual commitment and therefore they don't see the need to get married either anytime soon or maybe even at all.

Speaker 1 1:27

And so you mean like they go ahead and live with each other as if they were husband and wife?

Speaker 2 1:33

Yeah, so they start like sometimes start families, they move in together, they live like they're married, but they don't actually see the reason to get married. They only saw the need to get engaged.

Speaker 1 1:46

So is that a myth?

Speaker 2 1:48

I believe it's a myth.

Speaker 1 1:49

Why is it a myth?

Speaker 2 1:50

Well, engagement isn't a commitment. It is a promise of future things to come, but they have not yet come, and so engagements can end, I mean, With no legal penalty or liability. So engagements can end, I mean, with no legal penalty or liability Exactly with nothing. My sister was engaged once before she got married to someone else and guess what, a couple months before the engagement, they called it off. It didn't happen.

Speaker 2 2:16

And I was very happy and you were very happy. She was very sad the day of her wedding, though. I remember we went to the beach and like at 2 pm.

Speaker 2 2:24

The day she was going to get married. Yeah, yeah, anyway. So they were able to end it and, other than the short term embarrassment, that was pretty much the only consequence. But when, when you get engaged, it's the time that you begin to plan. I mean, and really like I don't even know when engagement started, but the marriage is when you combine everything. It's when you legally sign the document saying I am going to be there for you, no matter what we are going to provide for each other in sickness and in health, till death do us part.

Speaker 2 3:00

And because of the legal part of it which I know a lot of people will say, why does marriage have to become a legal thing? But the legal part of it, which I know a lot of people will say, why does marriage have to become a legal thing? But the legal part of it is what can bind us together and keep us together even when times get hard in the future. So in engagement you still have a ton of space to back out and, as you said, there's no repercussions, really no long term repercussions, and so I don't see how it's the commitment. To me it sounds like a cop-out for people who don't actually want to commit, who want to keep their options open and therefore I see it as a huge red flag. If I was going to be, if I was with, if, if? When Rob and I got engaged, he said, well, this is good enough for me, like this is my commitment to you. Rob and I got engaged.

Speaker 2 3:45

He said, well, this is good enough for me, like this is my commitment to you, I would say ain't, no way we are getting married because you how do I know you're not going to leave me in five years? I don't. And there's, and and there would be no legal repercussions if he were to.

Speaker 1 3:57

Okay, or perhaps even legal rights to you if you were abandoned?

Speaker 1 4:02

Yeah, I was on Dave Ramsey's show once. We were talking about things and he was asking about that why are more people living together now and not getting married? And so, because of Dave's background and what he does for a living, I said well, let me put it in the language that you would use there's a different mindset between renters and buyers. Renters are like I'm going to be here for a while, but I've always got the option to leave without any entanglements if I choose to leave. Buyers are well, I'm committed to this. If I'm going to leave, I'm going to have to take care of all kinds of things, because I have certain responsibilities, and the same kind of thing happens when it comes to a relationship.

Speaker 1 4:42

If I am not committed to you, then, as you just said, I could actually just, on a whim, walk away, not only with no repercussions to me, but with no obligations to you, whereas commitment and marriage commitment is like no, there are legal ramifications here. We have decided to share certain things, we have shared certain responsibilities, certain obligations, et cetera. Now, therefore, if I decide I want to walk away, we've got a lot of issues we have to work through, because we have to make sure that everybody's taken care of, et cetera, et cetera. So in one of my books I think it was the book Becoming One, I can't quote it exactly, but I wrote something like this Romantic love without commitment is like jumping out of an airplane without a parachute.

Speaker 2 5:34

It's very exciting but it ends badly very badly, and that's ultimately what we're talking about here. The commitment, because there will be people. I can see some of the comments now of people saying well, why, why ramifications for people who cohabitate if they've been together longer than X amount of time so you can have that, like you can create that within the two of you without marriage.

Speaker 1 6:24

But it's still not the voluntary commitment I'm assuring you. Now. The common law of England back in the day and no, I wasn't a lot back then the common law of England was that if you presented yourself in public as a husband or wife, you were immediately considered to be married, which meant that if you were to end that relationship, you would actually have to go through a legal divorce. Now why would they want that? Why would the culture of that country be? If you present yourself as husband and wife, then we're going to make sure you're legally married just because of the fact you presented yourself that way. And it comes back to protection and being there for the other person so that the other person's not doubting it.

Speaker 1 7:13

You know we talk a lot about how that people get jealous and people become insecure and that what drives that typically is. I'm afraid that you won't be here for me when I need you. And will marriage guarantee they will be no, but it much more guarantees they would be than just you saying we're going to be with each other. Is that okay with you? I mean just saying that doesn't give the same level of commitment of I'm going to put my name to this, I'm going to put my trough, as we would say in a marriage ceremony to this. I'm going to make sure that we share things, property, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, all these things, because the two of us are going to become one. And ultimately that would be my question how do you become one with a person who refuses the ultimate commitment to that which, in our culture, is marriage?

Speaker 2 8:09

Right, I don't know how you can either, otherwise. Well, let me put it this way I don't want to be married to a person who's looking for the loopholes.

Speaker 1 8:17

Same here, same here. I agree wholeheartedly. And so this well, we're committed, to a degree maybe, but not fully. Right, and full commitment is a totally different thing than partial commitment, completely different thing. People who are fully committed will do what it takes. People who are partially committed may or may not. People who are partially committed may or may not.

Speaker 2 8:44

You know, I would say that the reason that countries got involved with marriage is because countries have realized for millennia that marriage is important to a healthy society.

Speaker 1 9:05

Therefore, the countries decided we want to do what we can to help protect this, because it's an institution that will ensure that we thrive. So we're very pro-marriage. I admit my prejudice. I'm very pro-marriage, but my prejudice isn't just from what I was taught when I was a child. My prejudice is from how many people we have worked with, thousands and thousands over the last 30 years and seeing what happens when a person does not commit or does not live up to his or her commitment.

Speaker 2 9:30

Absolutely. Let's dive into another marriage myth that we see, which is that well, the divorce rate is going down. Marriage actually must be doing better, because what we're hearing in the news is there are not as many divorces as there used to be.

Speaker 1 9:47

Well, so, according to how you score it, since we have more people in one sense, yes, there are more than used to be but they talk about percentages and so people get excited about that. A lady came out with a book oh what, 10 years ago maybe where she said we will look back at the government statistics and the government is completely wrong. The divorce rate is not around 50 percent. The divorce rate is really around 20 percent. And so some people got really excited about that. And she even came here to the Nashville area and spoke at a church that you and I are both very familiar with, and they were all like isn't this wonderful, isn't this amazing?

Divorce Rates and Relationship Dynamics

Speaker 1 10:20

And a PhD friend of mine said Joe, isn't this wonderful? I said it doesn't change anything. Right, if they claim it's 20%, 50%, 90%, it doesn't change anything. There's still the same number of divorces taking place, the same percentage of divorces taking place every year of married people. Now, would that be fewer people in number, even though the percentage would be the same from year to year? Yeah, because now a lot of people don't get married.

Speaker 2 10:48

Right.

Speaker 1 10:49

Which means if they split up, it's not considered to be a divorce Right, and so the number of people getting divorced, the ratio for people who are married, is really, basically, is the same. It's the fact that, oh, and, six states no longer report divorce statistics including California, interestingly and so we don't even have the right information anymore. We don't have enough information to make a decision anymore. All I know is this we get people calling us every single day from all across America and all around the world, who are doing their best to save their marriages and so thinking that marriage is a whole lot better off. We don't see it, not one bit. The kids we deal with are in such pain. We don't see it, not one bit.

Speaker 1 11:43

Oh, and here in America, people are getting married much later. So if they wind up living with somebody for three or four years before they finally decide who they're going to get married, but then they split up, that's not considered to be a divorce, although a few years ago they would have married them, then divorced and then monitored the other person. So you can use statistics any way you want. It was Will Rogers who said that there are lies, damn lies, and statistics, and when you look at that. I'm just telling you that this. There's a lot of trouble in this world, and a lot of it has to do with the fact that people are not making commitments and keeping commitments, and a lot of it has to do with the fact that people are not making commitments and keeping commitments.

Speaker 2 12:26

It's 100% true. When and you and I both know that when you go through the PhD process writing a dissertation, having to look at statistics and prove why you're going to run the numbers the way you're going to run the numbers, I mean there's a lot of citations you have to make and basically, case law is probably a term that the listeners would understand, like you have to I, at least. I have to go back to previous research that's been done and incite that and prove why I'm going to do it my the way I'm submitting to do it based on what's been done in the past. All of that to say, because people can do little surveys with their email list and say research shows and it's not research at all and I don't even know. I mean, as you were talking, I thought I don't even know how knowing a divorce rate is helpful.

Speaker 1 13:22

I don't either. You know, when this lady came out with her book, she had hired some statistician who redid the statistics from the US government and came to a dramatically different conclusion and said therefore, we're right. That just raises a ton of flags that what were their qualifications? If they weren't qualified, let's identify that. If they weren't qualified, then how can one other person come to a totally different agreement, understanding and can be convinced that he or she is right? Oh, you're right. Tons of flags.

Speaker 2 13:55

Tons of flags and, like you said, maybe they did the way that they were running the math, because the divorce rate right now is based on number of marriages per year. The math because the divorce rate right now is based on number of marriages per year divided by number of divorces per year. So they may have tried to take people and, like, add them up over a certain period of time.

Speaker 1 14:14

I don't think that's how that statistic is done.

Speaker 2 14:16

I think it is. How do you think it's done?

Speaker 1 14:18

It's done. If you did that, you could only total in what's happening in a particular year.

Speaker 2 14:23

Yeah, I know.

Speaker 1 14:24

But if you're looking for the—so, let's say there's 2 million marriages this year in America, right, okay, and there's 1 million divorces this year in America. Yes, if we just looked at that, we'd say a 50% yeah, but you have to rate that 1 million divorces did not come out of those two million marriages.

Speaker 2 14:46

You're correct. That's correct. But the graphs that the CDC releases every year is based on number of marriages that year and number of divorces that occurred that year. So it is the picture of in the moment, not over a lifetime, because then you have to get into well, when did those couples marry? And it becomes way more difficult. So the easy way to do it is just in the year. Now there may be other data from the government that's done more of the way you're talking about, but when I went through it last year it was what I just said.

Speaker 1 15:23

Mm-hmm. Another statistic that is becoming very concerning for me is that people in their 50s and 60s and 70s. The divorce rate is rising in that group. Either way, divorce causes problems.

Speaker 2 15:39

Absolutely.

Speaker 1 15:40

Period, and so people think, well, we shouldn't worry about that anymore. Really, all the children that are abandoned by a father or mother, all the children who now live under the poverty level, all the people who have gone under the poverty level themselves because you've split the income, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, and if you think those aren't causing problems, and all the people who are having children but not ever having been married, therefore having no help no help from a spouse and seeing the effects that those kids are having not having a dad or a mom, those kinds of things.

Speaker 1 16:19

If we try to polyanically say things are better, just go out and start walking the streets and look at people. They're not better.

Speaker 2 16:29

So, then, another myth is that divorces are mainly caused either by finances that's another, that's one that we hear. Well, most divorces are caused by not agreeing on finances or most divorces are caused by affairs.

Speaker 1 16:46

Yeah, one of my friends this was not Dave Ramsey, by the way, but another friend who was in a similar business to that a few years ago told me that, according to an article printed in Newsweek or Time or whatever it was, that this percentage of divorces happened because of finances. And I said they're not looking at the real problem. I said what do you mean? You see you, and I would look at it and say if they're fighting over finances, okay. If they're fighting over affairs, okay. If they're fighting over in-laws, okay.

Speaker 1 17:14

What are the underlying issues? That's what we look for, not what particular thing is triggering it right now. And so, according to research by Gottman John Gottman, who's a great researcher, and others, we know that typically the motivation for divorce has to do with either I don't feel that you love me, or I don't feel that you like me, or I don't feel that you respect me. And so if they're fighting over money, at least one of them probably feels disrespected. Because if, all of a sudden, they won the lottery and had no more money problems, if they don't correct the disrespect problem, they're still going to divorce. The divorce might be the issue they're dealing with, but it's not the motivation, it's not the reason that they're going to the divorce.

Myths and Hope for Marriages

Speaker 2 17:57

Right, it'll manifest in a different way. And then similarly with affairs, that is sometime. And even with that, would you and I say that affairs are the number one cause of divorce that people report? I don't think so. I think mostly people report irreconcilable differences, which is more of a point to. We can't actually pinpoint what is causing us to divorce, we just know it's not working.

Speaker 1 18:28

Yeah, Can an affair destroy marriage? Without a doubt, it certainly can. We don't even know what percentage of marriages are affected by infidelity, because the research theory is all over the place the study says it's that, that study says it's that, that study says it's that over there, and one of the reasons is because of the fact people tend not to be real honest about things like that Right, and so we don't know what percentage of affairs are affected by affairs. We do know this that marriages where each person feels loved, feels liked by the other person and feels respected by the other person, likely aren't going to end.

Speaker 1 19:04

Yeah, and that's good news, whatever issues they have and they're always going to have issues. Yeah.

Speaker 2 19:11

Yeah, absolutely so, then maybe another myth to address here is that getting professional help for our marriage is a sign that we have messed up, or it's a sign that things aren't working and therefore we shouldn't do it.

Speaker 1 19:29

Well, I don't remember who I first heard say this Maybe it was Gottman, I'm not sure that. We kind of have a saying in the marriage industry and that is that whoever you marry, you marry a set of problems, and whoever marries you marries a set of problems. None of us is perfect, not one single one of us. Therefore, there are always going to be issues in a marriage. You're going to disagree about this, you're not going to like something about that, et cetera, et cetera. And in the old days where it was just we're so committed to each other that we're going to be married until we die, no matter what.

Speaker 1 20:05

Maybe people didn't go get help. They just tolerated the fact that they didn't much like each other. And so what happened is that you'd have him sleeping out on the farm, for example. He's sleeping in one bedroom, she's sleeping in another bedroom, not because he's going to be getting up earlier than her, but because of the fact they just don't much care for each other anymore. But they're going to stay together, no matter what.

Speaker 1 20:26

Well, how do you prevent that? Have somebody who can help you see where you're communicating and understanding each other. That can help you understand where your conflict areas are, can help you comprehend how you actually fix those things, because they do need to be fixed, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So I know several couples now who say we just go to some kind of a marriage seminar at least once a year just to keep us on track. I think that's a good idea. So going to a counselor or a therapist to look how to help make your relationship stronger, right, I think, is a good thing. You must be more careful, if you want to see a marriage counselor, about helping you to save your marriage, and that would be based on the beliefs and values that particular marriage counselor holds.

Speaker 2 21:16

But are there some cautions that you would give people if they're looking to go to a counselor or a therapist to make their relationship stronger?

Speaker 1 21:25

I heard a quote from a very famous researcher. I called him back because I'd seen it on a video. And I called him and I said where's the research behind this? He said there is none.

Speaker 2 21:36

At least he was honest he was honest.

Speaker 1 21:37

He said this is just my opinion. Now, this guy is a very famous and extremely respected counselor. Extremely respected counselor. He said that in his estimation, an angry wife dealing with a female counselor was the greatest predictor of divorce. Now did you hear me say there's no research for that? This was this one man's opinion, one man's opinion.

Speaker 1 22:04

But how many times have we seen it where that if the counselor, male or female, had any kind of an issue about the other gender like my husband did me wrong and I kind of had this thing against men, or my wife was unfaithful, so I don't know if I could ever trust a woman, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Because counselors and therapists, like everybody else, have their own biases, their own prejudices. And so we would recommend, if you're going to see a marriage counselor at all, get them on the phone to begin with before you make an appointment and say look, we want to know who's going to be the client, the husband, the wife or the marriage. And if the counselor says I don't even know what that means, say thank you very much and you hang up.

Speaker 1 22:49

I would suggest only go to the ones who say the marriage will be the client. Therefore, they're not on either person's side, and they're on both person's sides If the marriage is the client, and that's what I would settle it for. And the second question I'm going to ask is are you going to operate within my belief and value system or are you going to try to impose yours on me? Because if they're going to operate within my belief and value system, or are you going to try to impose yours on me, because if they're going to try to impose their beliefs and values on you, you don't know what it is they're going to be trying to get you to believe and to do yeah, and you know they may say, because we're taught in the marriage and family therapy training in the master's probably LPC licensed professional counseling has taught this as well that you should be aware of your biases, you should check them at the door.

Speaker 2 23:33

Check them at the door, um, and you should not impose your beliefs in that, like you're taught that but does it actually happen that way? And so that's why it's okay to shop therapists not even even after you start going. You're not married to your therapist. If you have a session and you leave and you think that didn't feel right, then don't go back. You don't have to.

Speaker 1 23:58

Yeah, this counselor's causing more problems, et cetera, et cetera. A few years ago I was watching this very angry, strident female counselor on television. The fact that she's female, I don't think is even relevant. Okay, but she was saying I deal with these women and they've all been taught wrong and the first thing I do is I teach them to forget all that stuff that they taught you. This is what's right.

Speaker 2 24:20

That's a huge lie.

Speaker 1 24:21

National television. I would have loved to have been in that studio. I would have loved being interviewed at the same time, because I would have loved to have been in that studio. I would have loved being interviewed at the same time because I would have said wow, that's exactly opposite of the way you were trained, unless you were trained in some bizarre place because you don't have the right to do that. It's unethical, it's unprofessional. They should take your license away. Of course I wasn't there, so I didn't get to say that.

Speaker 2 24:46

I mean the fact that she said that on national TV they should take her license away. I agree I doubt they did, though I doubt it too. That's crazy. Yes, so overall there are several myths that we've covered, hopefully given people a better way to think about how to think about these things and hopefully given them hope for their own relationship as well.

Speaker 1 25:10

Good, Because we believe that any marriage can be saved.

Speaker 2 25:13

We absolutely do, absolutely.

Speaker 1 25:15

You and I were being interviewed on a national program the other day and they asked you can every marriage be saved? And we're quite shocked when you said yes.

Speaker 2 25:27

I don't even know if it was just the yes, it was the absolute confidence in my yes, yes, absolutely no hesitation.

Speaker 1 25:36

Yep, we believe it, we do believe it and we've witnessed it thousands of times over the last 30 years. We have, of course, you know you were a child for part of those 30 years. But we've experienced it again and again. We know it can be done.

Helping Save Marriages With MarriageHelper

Speaker 2 25:51

We do. We would love to help you as well. If you're listening, you can speak with our intake team, our intake specialists, that can help you understand what we do and how we can help you to save your marriage by going to marriagehelpercom book now and booking a free 30 minute call with one of our intake specialists, where they will go through what you're going through, determine what your goal is and see how we can best serve you and, if it's the right fit and guess what? If it's not the right fit, we will happily tell you that as well, because we want you to get the best help for your marriage. Thank you for listening today. Share this episode with a friend. Be sure that you're subscribing and following the channels in which you listen or watch this podcast on. And until next week, remember, there is always hope.