Relationship Radio: Marriage, Sex, Limerence & Avoiding Divorce
Relationship Radio: Marriage, Sex, Limerence & Avoiding Divorce
3 Ways to DISAGREE on Politics Without Hurting Your Relationship
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In this video, we talk about how to stay calm and kind when you and someone you care about don’t agree on politics. It’s the first video in a series where we look at big topics that often start arguments, like politics, religion, how we handle money, and how to raise kids.
Nowadays, politics can make people very upset, even with their families or friends. Some folks even wish others who disagree with them weren’t around, which is really sad. But in our video, Meredith Ball, a wise coach, teaches us how to talk about politics without getting angry or hurting our relationships.
Meredith shows us:
1.How to have peaceful talks about politics.
2.How to listen and understand why someone believes different things.
3.How to grow and change together, even when you disagree.
Click to watch and find out how to keep your marriage strong, even when you disagree. Don’t forget to subscribe for more great tips on how to handle disagreements with care.
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At Marriage Helper, we are diving into a new series on the things we disagree on. We are going to be taking five controversial issues that tend to show up inside of marriages and a ton of other relationships that tend to be very frequent. Things that people husbands, wives, parents, kids, best friends, neighbors all of the things you could think of tend to disagree on, and we're starting this week with maybe the most controversial of them all, especially right now politics. We're going to be covering, over the series of the five weeks, politics, religion, sex, finances and how to raise your kids. These are issues that come up all the time in marriage and right now, maybe in your household or in the household of people you love. Politics is one of those things that you tend to disagree on. Or maybe you and your spouse are on the same page, but you have friends or family members, or you just tend to get really pissed off after being on Facebook and seeing what other people have to say, and it's taking away your peace and your joy and making you really angry.
Speaker 1:During this current season, there have been some recent statistics that have been shared about how, on both sides of the American political parties, something like 40% of each party wish that the other party didn't exist, that there just weren't people who believed that, that even thought that they were bad people, that 40% of each, that that even thought that they were bad people, that 40% of each party believed that the other side are just bad people. But even more staggering is that 20% of each American political party wish that the other party were dead, that they didn't even exist. These are appalling and scary statistics. And 20%, that's a fifth of all Americans. You are bound to be experiencing this somewhere in your relationships. So, on today's episode, I'm joined by one of our coaches here at Marriage Helper, Meredith Ball. Thank you for joining me today.
Speaker 2:You bet.
Speaker 1:We're going to be diving into this issue politics, so my first question for you, Meredith, is who are you voting for?
Speaker 2:Well, I'm not going to share that in this forum.
Speaker 1:The truth is, I haven't even voted yet, so maybe it's up in the air. Me neither, and we may both get canceled for not having voted yet.
Speaker 2:That is a way that you can get canceled in this day and age.
Speaker 1:So I really wanted. When I was talking with my husband, rob, about doing this episode, he's like one of you should wear a Kamala hat and one of you should wear a MAGA hat and just start there. I was like people are just going to. It doesn't even matter which side someone's on, because it seems to be that there can't be two people who and I don't even know that we believe differently because we've never really talked about politics that we believe differently because we've never really talked about politics. But it's astounding to think that you can't even sit across the table from someone and have these different beliefs and be able to get along or have a productive, reasonable conversation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it definitely shuts down conversation. Oh man for sure it shuts down relationships.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean the number of people that I've run across in the last few years who don't really talk to their parents because of political views. Really, you know, maybe not completely estranged, but just over-boundaried Like I can't agree with them so I can barely be in the same room, so I've severely limited my contact.
Speaker 1:I mean that's not something I run into every day, but it's not an uncommon scenario. Do you think that this has gotten worse over the past several decades and if so, why?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that we are more polarized and I could only speculate as to the reasons for that, but I definitely feel like over the course of my adult life I've felt the political temperature rise, especially in election years.
Speaker 1:Mm, hmm, 100% Politics. One of the things you and I were talking about before we started filming was how politics seem to encompass deeply held beliefs, and that's why it's so charged for people. Explain more of what that means.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, we're not disagreeing on. You know, are pumpkin spice lattes a good thing to drink? You know there are frivolous convictions that we can hold. You know there are frivolous convictions that we can hold and within politics, are you know where I identify politically, says where I hold some of my deepest convictions, or it can feel like a more morally problematic area because it feels like I am compromising on things that are morally convicting.
Speaker 1:So probably a lot of people, when they first get married, they tend to marry someone with similar beliefs and values to them, tend to marry someone who share probably very similar political beliefs. But so why do you think that couples can fight married couples can fight about political beliefs when maybe they shared the exact same when they first got married or when they were first dating?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I think we do gravitate towards people who are similar to us in this area. I've known some people that are exceptions to that, but I think for the most part it's in that area of deeply held values and beliefs and so we pick people who are similar to us. But the issue is there that we're always growing and changing and we're evolving. So I have talked to a couple of couples lately that they're like I am not anywhere near where I used to be 20 years ago on the political spectrum. The political landscape has changed and I have changed and I've done my own work as a person and I'm just not where I was. That's going to happen. We're all going to evolve over time. That's going to happen. We're all going to evolve over time. So that can be especially the political climate today, which is so polarized and so emotionally elevated.
Speaker 1:I can see why things that maybe didn't feel like as big of a deal 20 years ago for instance, when you got married might feel like more of a hot topic today. Well, and I think that social media has added a huge component, because now beliefs aren't just closely held through conversation with your spouse or with your family through kind of this intentional, you know, really rigorous, thought processing conversation together. It's like statements need to be made or there's a feeling that statements should be made about news topics or issues, and so we're just getting these like short glimpses into things that are happening and seeing where people land, without understanding the heart behind those people.
Speaker 1:And so I have to believe that that's made, that that's been part of this.
Speaker 2:Social media is such a bad place to have a meaningful conversation. It's such a bad place I mean it promotes misunderstanding, not understanding, because you're not looking the person in the eyeballs, you're not trying to understand. I mean, people don't just set out to have some crazy belief. They arise there based on experiences they've had belief. They arise there based on experiences they've had people that they respect. All kinds of things can happen and you miss out on that context when you're just trying to communicate online.
Speaker 2:I don't even know if I would call it communication. I would call it like proclamations and you know dissent, yeah that's pretty much what it feels like.
Speaker 1:So when my husband and I first got married, he was very dogmatic maybe that's the correct word in a very specific political party, like to the point where he would tell like I would kind of jokingly with him, be like, oh, I'm going to vote for the other side, and he would be like I, that's a deal breaker for him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's not even funny. No, he would be like I. That's a deal breaker for him. Yeah, that's not even funny.
Speaker 1:No, he would get legitimately angry and he would say, like I don't know that he ever used the words I will divorce you if you do that. But the sentiment was very similar. Like to him, it was so like these are my strongly held convictions. I hated that, of course, because even though I wasn't necessarily planning on voting for that other person, it was like let me be who.
Speaker 1:I am, let me be who I am. And it wasn't. I didn't care that much to like push back on it at that point. But thankfully my husband has evolved over time in a sobering way. He has become way less dogmatic in those beliefs. The older that he gets, the more to where. Now he's like I can see both sides of a lot of issues and can come to an understanding. And now if I joke and I'm like I'm going to vote for the other side, he's like okay, do it. Yeah, he's like I support you in whatever.
Speaker 1:You can't even push his buttons with that anymore, which is kind of nice but and so I think for us it's been I've been able to see him really grow in that but thinking, let's talk first about that couple that may be in the place that I was, you know, early on in my marriage where their spouse is like controlling them, trying to control their vote, control the way that they think, telling them things like you would be an idiot to think that or an idiot to vote that way. Let's speak first to the person. Who is the spouse being subject to that. What are some things that that person can do to still want to have a good marriage? But how can you have a good marriage when you feel, when you feel, controlled?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think maybe there are a number of marriage helper principles that have really helped me personally, but I think the first one that kind of rocked my world was acceptance, which is that second part of the love path. You don't have to like where somebody is coming from or agree with where somebody is coming from to accept them. That's where they are. They're on a journey, like all of us. Who knows if they'll end up in that place, but for right now that's where they are. So it is. There's really not a silver bullet, for how do you come together on these things? There is a. I'm going to adjust my attitude to accept that. That's where you're at and I'm glad to have conversations, but it's a two-way conversation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So, being the person like me, however many years ago it was 10 years ago so me 10 years ago, being even though I'm the one who feels controlled, there's a level of acceptance I need to have towards my spouse, even though I don't agree with their behavior. And how do I stand up for what I believe when I feel like if I don't do what my husband or, you know, in a man's case, my wife is wanting me to do, then I'm going to have repercussions for that. How do? Where's the balance between that?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, I wouldn't tell anybody to be a doormat, so you have to. I mean you have to tiptoe around those issues delicately Sometimes. I do think looking for understanding is the key. This is probably something that needs to happen more from the person who's controlling, but a lot of times I realize when I'm talking to people, they think they're the controlled spouse and sometimes if you talk to their spouse, they would say it's the other way around. So we can all you know, we can all be controllers. But looking for understanding, I mean just the stat that you started out with, where there's a tendency right now for people to think of those in the opposing party as evil, as bad you know, that that is almost certainly not the case, right?
Speaker 2:What that is is a lack of understanding. Now, what it does mean is they probably grew up in some kind of a different context or culture or with different priorities or values that have caused them to prioritize things differently than me. So if that person who has a different perspective than you is your spouse, then what better thing could you do but try to dig in and understand? Like clearly, if I'm tempted to control you on this or I'm tempted to think that you're just a wrong person or a bad person or an evil person, I have my own work to do to understand where you're coming from.
Speaker 1:I'm missing it, yeah yeah, and it goes to the fact that what you said, or what you said towards the beginning, the, the reason that these political conversations can be so charged, is there are either past experiences, personal pain points.
Speaker 1:There's something that is in that political and I hate to even say party, but like some of the policies that tend to fall under some of the party lines on either side of the of the party lines, and I can think of two different people right now. Like I'm thinking of a person I know who works deeply with inner city kids and the people in poverty and like that is her life and her passion and she's in it like day in, day out, doing everything she can to try and change the future trajectory of these children. And then I'm thinking of the, like the soldier who sees war and who sees people who need help and is trying and has like that heart of a protection. These two people may vote very differently, they may not, but the two people may vote very differently, but the things they're passionate about both matter and and so in having those intentional conversations of understanding, like why do you, why is that so important to you, can open conversations to understand a person and their story and their background. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And if that you know, if those two people you're talking about are married, maybe you have, you know, a wife who's really involved in inner city work and you have a husband who's a veteran, those can both still be things that they care about it's not like she has to care less about working with.
Speaker 2:You know impoverished people and he has to care less about, you know, whatever it is that's important to him they need to support. I mean, they're still individuals and those kinds of conversations could even facilitate ways to support one another. I mean, we just need to be seen and heard where we are. I mean, that's that would go such a long way. You don't really have to agree. You do not have to agree with where I'm coming from if you've truly taken the time to understand, because at that point I'm like you see where I'm coming from.
Speaker 1:That's so hard for people to wrap their head around that you don't have to agree with someone who has a different belief than you, with someone who has a different belief than you, and you can still be in respectful and flourishing relationship with that person. Can you think of an example of like a couple that you've worked with, or a story that you know of of two people that have had to work that out?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I've worked with a couple and I'll make it kind of a composite so because people that are working with me do have confidentiality. But yes, I mean the story was that they had started out with very similar political and religious beliefs Over the last couple of decades. The wife feels like feeling judged, like he was drawing some really strict dichotomies, like you're either in or you're out, like I see you drifting away from something that I would consider to be and it so often happens. I think there were politics and religion kind of tied together in this. But she felt like he was judging her for drifting away from what he would consider to be like orthodoxy.
Speaker 2:We had a conversation about it. He was like I actually don't see it that way at all. Sometimes I'm a little bit frustrated when I have to attend church events by myself or that type of thing. But I've watched you. You're a very passionate person and you you're very articulate and you're intelligent and I'm able to accept you for where you were. There was a lot of assuming going on and she felt judged where, and she has the right to feel how she feels. But I think she felt judged more because of a past version of him than how he actually is today man, that's such a key thing too.
Speaker 1:We do tend to like when we have we, when we've gone through hard times in our relationship. It's like that fear of the worst times becomes the overarching theme in our minds of like what if they get mad? Like they used to back then?
Speaker 2:now right that's a hard thing to break out of right, and he's been doing his own work too.
Speaker 1:You know he's grown as a person so how do you you've done a lot of studying with trauma, like when people kind of get stuck in past cycles how do how do you break out of putting the past on your future? How do you break out of putting the past on your future? How do you break out of putting the past on your future?
Speaker 2:It's such a good question and there's so much there. I mean trauma is stored in the limbic part of your brain, which is autonomic, so you can go to that place of being triggered. Define autonomic.
Speaker 1:For people who, like me, are like I know that there's.
Speaker 2:It's not like the cognitive part of your brain, it's like the part, it's the impulses and sensations part of your brain.
Speaker 2:Okay, so if something comes up and you may not even be conscious of the fact that it's triggering you, it comes up in the middle part of your brain and it's a sensation, it's not a thought. So now you can work with a therapist to reprogram your brain so that the cognitive part of your brain is in control of those kinds of sensations when it comes up. But you have to notice that it's happening and do that work.
Speaker 1:I just had an epiphany. This is why I will say things to my husband sometimes when he's like he'll ask me like how I'm doing. I said I'm anxious, but I don't know why. Yet, like that, it's like a feeling I have, but I don't know the reason why, and we kind of joke about it because it's like, but you just put light on it.
Speaker 2:It's very self-aware to even be able to say that, well, it's taken. It's very self-aware to even be able to say that, well, it's taken a few years of practice.
Speaker 1:It's taken a few years, but I can definitely. It's this like I know that I'm anxious and I feel like I have to figure out why. That's what you're talking about and probably people feel it's not always anxiety. There's probably other things people can feel.
Speaker 2:Well, it's your fight or flight is starting to kick in.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's your fight or flight is starting to kick in.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's amazing, and it is probably some subconscious part of your brain remembering something that's been difficult for you to cope with in the past, and that's the initial warning of it.
Speaker 1:The initial warning of it or mourning of it, warning, warning with a W warning of it. So then, what?
Speaker 2:So I mean, if you're aware of it, that's half of the battle, right? A lot of times this is going on without without people really having a lot of awareness of what's going on. So you know, if a husband says if he, if he brings up something, who he's going to vote for, or some sort of political idea or political affiliation, and the wife automatically feels anxious or angry and he witnesses that in her, then if they're not aware of that, he can very easily go into. Why are you always so defensive Every time I bring this up?
Speaker 2:I was just telling you, and then she's already triggered. So then she's going to spiral further down and it may be like the couple I was just telling you, and then she's already triggered. So then she's going to get you know, she's going to spiral further down and it may be like the couple I was talking about earlier. It may be built on past that may be based on past patterns that they've actually grown past and can continue to grow past. But it is triggering that fight or flight part of your brain instead of really listening to understand, listening with that front part of your brain.
Speaker 1:This is how people stay stuck. Yeah, so what would you say? We talked about and there might be some repeats here but we talked specifically about the person who feels controlled. Let's say, you're the person listening who's. Maybe you don't think of yourself as controlling, but you're like the person listening is thinking no, there is a right and a wrong and it matters very much to me what my spouse does and who they vote for.
Speaker 2:Because I don't want them to be wrong. I don't want them to be wrong. I mean, I've recognized controlling tendencies in myself. I have a marriage helper. To think for that, I would not have thought of myself as a controlling person. But the first couple of times I went through the workshop I was like I'm that person who can control out of fear. You know, fear, arrogance and rigidity are the main reasons that people control. I really think fear is probably the most common one, would be my guess. Probably the most common one would be my guess. And it is I want to. When I control it's, I want to protect those I love from some sort of threat that I perceive.
Speaker 2:So it's being honest with yourself. I think that I'm trying to protect them, but they're actually, if it's your spouse, they're a grown person who can think for themselves and perceive threats for themselves and you have to give them that autonomy and I think some realization of that can help you tone down the control a little bit. It can be hard because you know, for instance, if you do think that life is important and you think that one party does a better job of protecting life than the other I'm not saying that either party is good at it.
Speaker 1:We are not taking stances. The jury is always out on that one anyway.
Speaker 2:But if you, believe that protecting life is important and that one party does a better job than the other at protecting life. You know, there is a morally problematic element, maybe to hearing your spouse say I think I'm leaning this way, but I think that's where you do your work. I mean, you can never control what other people are going to do anyway. I mean, it's not through legislation that you really best protect life anyway, and that's one issue of 20 that we could break down right. That feels morally weighty to people and you just have to give other people the space to figure out where they're convicted on that and if they are, how they think you best try to enact policy around that, or do you? You know you have to give them that freedom.
Speaker 1:There's so many points as I'm just thinking through the things we've talked about. It's about having acceptance for each other, leaning in to understand why your spouse or even yourself, believe the way that you believe, understanding the story behind that of each other. Like you and I both know and you more so, you have more of a therapy background than I do like it's beautiful when couples are just able to have these like super intentional, active listening. I hear you, let me ask further questions and they're just like here with each other. So few times does it go that way.
Speaker 1:There's all these breaking points throughout where, like, someone's going to get offended by one thing someone said or hear it the wrong way, or one person might hit a wall and being able to talk about this anymore, and you know, offense can happen multiple different times. So how, if if someone's wanting to go from here and say, you know what I do want to have, like my husband and I have been fighting a lot about this one thing and I do want to go have a conversation where I can ask him you know I why, why is this so important to you? I want to understand what are some guide, guidance, tips of how they can approach that conversation and maybe when to know when to like halt it and pick it up again later if it's going off the rails.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you can always take a time out and say let's pick this up later. Just make sure you really do. I say that a lot, especially when it's clear I'm working with an avoidance spouse, because they'll say this is too stressful, I want to take a time out. And then they never pick it back up. So make sure you pick it back up. But one thing I like is listen to your spouse, listen to understand and, when they're done, restate their position in a way that they would approve of.
Speaker 1:In a way, explain that part in a way they would approve of. Okay, you and I are talking.
Speaker 2:You tell me your position on X or Y topic and I say Kimberly.
Speaker 1:I was getting prepared.
Speaker 2:I was like, okay, what am I doing? I'm not putting you on the spot, kimberly. What I heard you say is you think of this position this way. It's important to you because of X and the best way that you think this can be dealt with is Y. Do you? Did I say your position right? Yeah, okay, that's right. Is it okay with you now If I share my position and then I say I would love to hear your position?
Speaker 2:And then you say the same thing, but here's. Here's what's going to happen the first time you try that, if it's a hot button issue is you're not going to get it. You're going to listen to your spouse and you're going to say now I heard you say and you're going to say some sort of something that sounds derogatory.
Speaker 1:I heard you say you don't care about single moms.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, and so you're going to have to keep trying, say it until they're like yes, you got it. You stated my position in a way that I would agree with. Then they're ready to hear you because you just did the hard work of hearing them.
Speaker 1:Like buying the right, like buying the opportunity by sowing into, listening to them and doing the work, and then it buys you the opportunity to do the same. What if the spouse does say something derogatory, though? What if they are like something derogatory, though? What if they are like what?
Speaker 2:if at the core that is an issue and there may be contempt at the core, that needs to be dealt with.
Speaker 2:And so that's when you bring in a third party, you can bring in a coach or a counselor.
Speaker 2:That's one of the things that they should be well trained in. If I have a couple in front of me, I will say, okay, it's Sally's turn to talk, and then I'll ask Bill, what did you hear her say? That's really interesting, because sometimes he infers stuff that actually is right, but she did not say because for the first time in his life I don't know, that sounds kind of arrogant, but for the first time in a while he really heard what she had to say yeah, and so yeah, I mean, if you need help doing that, then get a professional to help you learn how to have those kinds of conversations. Or if there's a really hot topic that you're having trouble getting through. But I think it's all about like learning new patterns, right, it's like when you're exercising a muscle you haven't used in a while, it's going to be flabby until you exercise it and you can learn how to have those kinds of conversations where you actively listen for understanding and not to defend yourself.
Speaker 2:So maybe.
Speaker 1:If maybe because you said you can learn. It's like it's something you can do over time. It may take practice for you to just continue to get better at it, then maybe don't start with the hottest topic first.
Speaker 2:Well, that could be. Yeah, I could see that as a. I could see that as a good way to kind of wade into the waters. Yeah, let's practice on something that's not as difficult for us.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah, I can totally see that. What are? I mean, we've covered a lot so far, but, as we wrap up, what are some key points that maybe we haven't mentioned, if any that you think are pertinent to this conversation?
Speaker 2:I mean remember the power of belonging. A lot of politics has to do with people wanting to affiliate with a certain kind of person or a certain cause. That can help you achieve understanding. Yes, the power of belonging.
Speaker 1:I love that. All right, so the key takeaways that we have for this episode. The first one is the power of acceptance and how key it is, and so acceptance is.
Speaker 2:I see where you're coming from.
Speaker 1:And love you as you are, without having to change you are not having to change you. Yeah, Beautiful. Another key takeaway from this episode is listening to understand and some ways that you can do that. You gave some examples of saying like, after you hear what someone says, being able to say back to them how did you say it? It was like I hear what you said. Here's what I heard you say.
Speaker 2:Say it in a way that the other person would say, yes, I agree with the way you stated my position.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then third takeaway is this is something that will and can get better over time the more that you do it, so maybe start with something that isn't going to be the most difficult confrontational conversation with your spouse on this that you've ever had.
Speaker 2:And let each other be individuals. You do not have to agree on every little thing, and in fact we'll not, and that's okay.
Speaker 1:And that's okay and that's okay. Thank you so much for joining meredith you bet. Thank you for having me glad to have you on. Thank you so much for being a part of this conversation today. We will look forward to seeing you next week as we dive into the next topic of things we disagree on.
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