S3E1: | Protecting the Rights of the Disabled (Greg Fehribach, Attorney, Advocate and Ball State Graduate)

Greg Fehribach is an attorney and the founder of The Fehribach Group, a consulting firm specializing in accessibility, universal design, and compliance with the Americans with Disabilities Act. He is also a proud two-time graduate of Ball State who made history as the first student with a disability to be elected to serve as the University’s student body president.

On this new season of “Our Call to Beneficence,” Greg talks about how the accessibility of Ball State’s campus in the 1970s made him think he had “died and gone to heaven.” Greg’s positive student experience compelled him to serve on the University’s Board of Trustees from 2004 to 2007.

Greg also describes how his Ball State education prepared him for his career as an attorney and as a disability rights advocate at the state and national level. Most recently, as chair of the United States Access Board, Greg helped craft federal guidelines to make our Nation’s streets more accessible and safer for people with disabilities.

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Transcript

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Hello, I'm Geoff Mearns, and I have the good fortune to serve as the president of Ball State University. This month marks the start of a new academic year here at Ball State. And with it being August, I'm also launching another season of my podcast. It's my third season and my guest today on Our Call to Beneficence is a Ball State graduate, Greg Fehribach.

Greg is an attorney with a disability who uses an electric wheelchair as a mobility aid device. He is also the founder of the Fehribach Group, a consulting firm specializing in accessibility, universal design, and compliance with the Americans with Disabilities Act. Over the years, Greg has remained actively engaged with Ball State. He has been a member of our Board of Trustees. He serves as a distinguished fellow at our Bowen Center for Public Affairs, and he oversees a special center named in his honor at Eskenazi Health, for which he helps provide internships for Ball State students with disabilities. So we're going to talk more about these highlights from his life and his career, as well as his work as a disability rights advocate on the national stage.

But first, it's my pleasure. Welcome. Welcome, Greg. Thank you for joining me.

[GREG FEHRIBACH]

Thank you, President Mearns. Honor to be here and a pleasure.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

So why don't we begin where I always do with my guests, with your upbringing, with your childhood. You were born with osteogenesis imperfecta, which I understand is a genetic disease for which your bones can fracture quite easily. When did your parents know you had this condition? And if you don't mind my asking, how did this condition affect your childhood?

[GREG FEHRIBACH]

So my parents knew immediately when I was born that I was a person with osteogenesis imperfecta. And to rocket back, they were 24 years old. He was a freshman at Purdue University after serving five years in our Air Force. And suddenly I was the first-born child and they were informed that I had over 100 breaks in my bones, in my body. And we were in Lafayette, Indiana. And I'm pretty sure that would have been a rock or a way that rocked their boat or however they were doing it. So that's how I began.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

So tell me, where did you grow up? Where you So you were born and raised here in Indiana, is that right?

[GREG FEHRIBACH]

I was born in Lafayette and moved to Indianapolis. And raised and lived in Indianapolis from four years old to present.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

All right. So where did you go to grade school? Tell me about your education. Maybe about high school.

[GREG FEHRIBACH]

Sure. My first K through five, I went to the James E. Roberts School and it was a school designated for folks with disabilities, back in the day called the Handicapped School. And it was a unique place, back in the day, for the polio folks. And FDR created a way to educate people with disabilities, a very accessible place.

And now I live in Indianapolis, about four blocks away from that school. But I … mom and dad moved me out of that school and we went to a Catholic parochial school from sixth grade through high school, graduate from Bishop Chatard.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Right. And what was your school experience like? How would you describe your experience compared to the other students in the high school?

[GREG FEHRIBACH]

So you got to remember the days, and I graduated from Chatard in 1976 as a senior. And from the time I went to parochial Catholic school to Chatard, there were no accommodations. I was, I was thinner, and my friends were a lot stronger. And so I was carried up and down the stairs from that time on. And it was a challenge for sure, but it was one that I'm glad to this day that I was able to accomplish.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

And it sounds like it was a challenge that you were able to overcome not simply by yourself, but with the support of your classmates.

[GREG FEHRIBACH]

Exactly. The support of the community, the family, and I consider it an honor to be able to be a part of that group that embodies that I still have for my life. If ever a need, they’re the first ones still there.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

And that's a theme I suspect we're going to talk a little bit about today and we'll come back to you at the end of our conversation. But picking up on the chronology, I understand that you were attracted to Ball State after you graduated from high school because it was the only college or university in the state with an on-campus residence facility for people with disabilities. Is that is an accurate account? 

[GREG FEHRIBACH]

It is accurate. And I was born at Purdue and raised at Purdue and thought that that's the place I was going to go as an engineer for my family and etc. And suddenly, we started looking at Purdue and discovered there was absolutely no way that that was going to work. And we began to search and suddenly Ball State was first in center on the radar and not only the residence hall, but the entire campus.

I was … my first quarter here, back in the day when we had quarters, spring quarter in 1977. I thought I had died and gone to heaven with the accessibility and being able to roll around campus and use the facilities and everything, just as equally as the rest of my classmates. So I said to myself, There's no place for me better than Ball State and I made a few good right decisions in my life, and that was probably the best one I ever made.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

And in addition to having the campus from a physical standpoint, be accessible, describe the culture that you found here on our campus back in 1977.

[GREG FEHRIBACH]

To that point, the culture was unbelievably accepting and encouraging. And it was one where you were expected to participate, of course, practically and appropriately academically, and do the right thing in the classroom. But also the largest part of college and be involved in, you know, university activities, student activities. And I took advantage of that and thought that worked out pretty good for me.

So Ball State was encouraging and supportive in fostering that desire to be a part of a larger community, and I was very pleased with it.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

So let me ask a couple of follow-up questions. You talked about your academic experience. I understand you've earned both an undergraduate and a graduate degree at Ball State. What did you study?

[GREG FEHRIBACH]

As an undergraduate, I got a bachelors in Political Science with minors in business and counseling psychology. I thought that I always thought it was going to be a lawyer and thought those three pursuits would help me in my in my career down the road, and I think it did. As a matter of fact. But and then my master's degree is in personnel. And I, I wasn't sure, but I went and I got—I took a year of graduate work at Ball State and decided I was not going to be in human resources, but I finished the master's before I went on to law school.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

So I’ll follow up with law school in just a moment. But during your experience here, were there any particular faculty members or staff members that had not just a positive influence on you, but are particularly memorable influence on you while you were here?

[GREG FEHRIBACH]

Absolutely. There's three, that are really fantastically thought about for me. The first person is Richard Harris, and Richard was the Director of Disability Services at Ball State and he was young and energetic and really took a part of making sure that access inclusion, but making sure that we were involved in that academic as well as social life, teaching us what we needed to do to participate.

A guy by the name of Jack Beyerl, Vice President of Student Affairs in our university. He was the guy, to the best of my knowledge, who made Ball state what it is today as relates to people with disabilities. It was his goal. He comes from a family of two parents who were deaf and he was a child of deaf parents, like the movie. And he was the guy that really made this university roll in this direction. 

And the third and there's a there's a whole host but you only asked for three. There is a woman, a female teacher who was my first English teacher in 201 or whatever, English and earlier start of English program. And because they put me in that …anyway, people make decisions for you. And it was great. And this teacher, which I don't know her name, was really fantastic at that learning level and I think she was a catalyst for my success thereafter and for her efforts. I'm grateful.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Yeah. So just a quick addition on to your story about Jack Byerl. So a few months ago, our Board of Trustees decided to name one of our newest residence halls in honor in memory of Jack Beyerl And so I hope you and anyone else who's listening will join us on Saturday, September 16th, when we formally dedicate what was formerly called the North Residence Hall Beyerl Residence Hall.

[GREG FEHRIBACH]

It would be my honor. 

[GEOFF MEARNS]

So you were also very involved on campus as a as a student. Why don't you tell me a little bit about some of your activities. And I understand that you were a campus politician?

[GREG FEHRIBACH]

Oh, I think everybody in college is a politician.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

(laughs) Some more effectively than others.

[GREG FEHRIBACH]

No, I—I got involved in student politics and student can government here. Started out as a hall representative at Williams Hall and enjoyed that but decided maybe I should run for Student Body President. And so I did. I ran and was elected President of student body of Ball State University in 1979, served through 1979 1980. And it was a highlight of my life to this day. There is nothing like winning an election. The best night of your life. The rest of the days got a little bumpy, but an election night. It's a good night. 

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Yeah. So you mentioned a moment ago that after you completed your education, bachelor's and master's here at Ball State, you went on to law school. Where did you go to law school? And well, actually, why did you go to law school and where did you go to law school?

[GREG FEHRIBACH]

I tell you, President Mearns, I always thought I wanted to be a lawyer. A crazy thing happened on the way to the circus or whatever, theater. I wrote an essay at the eighth grade and I indicated that I probably would end up being on the Supreme Court of the United States. That was my goal in the eighth grade.

So I don't know that I've ever not wanted to be a lawyer. So, I began to do that search process … in 1981, I graduated from Ball State, started to look. There weren't that many law schools that were accessible and there weren't that many programs that were accessible. I applied to Indiana University Indianapolis because it was an accessible one-level school and I did get in and I'll never forget this. The dean was there and he said, and this was a conservative time in our in our history and on academics. And he said, you need to apply to Harvard. And I looked at him, are you nuts? I didn't think that made any sense. Come to find out he was probably right because of their desire back in the day to be a little more progressive, etc..

But I found a school, Ohio Northern University, and that if you know anything about that part of the country, it's a very flat topography and the entire law school was on one floor. And so I applied and the dorm, I would move back to a dorm and the dorm was accessible down a ramp. And it worked out really well for me. And I really I thought it was a good a good fit for me, and I enjoyed it.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

So after you graduated from law school, what were the next steps or phases of your professional career? 

[GREG FEHRIBACH]

Prior to being in law school, I was a bailiff when I was in my graduate program at Ball State, and so I was the bailiff of the Marion County, Indianapolis Indiana probate court. And I started out as a summer intern and ended up being a two-year gig while I did my graduate work at night. And that was basically the start of my professional career. Ended up being a commissioner, which is a part-time judge, participant assistant, in probate court, and then began starting my own practice that was inside another firm back in the day that I became a lawyer, etc., And it worked out pretty good.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Yeah. And during this period of time, I also know that you became active in Indiana politics. In preparing for our conversation, I understand that in 1990 you were serving as the chair of Governor Bayh’s planning counsel for people with disabilities, and that service coincided with a very important milestone in our country, which was the passage of the Americans with Disabilities Act.

Can you share with us your memory of being at the White House on the day that President George H.W. Bush signed that historic legislation into law?

[GREG FEHRIBACH]

Sure. It's interesting. Let me take it back a few days before that, about a month or two. And I was doing work with the legislature, with Congress excuse me, on behalf of Indiana and working the halls on behalf of Indiana, to get this legislation passed. And I was there when the conference committee was signed in and somehow and I don't exactly remember this happening, but I'd made a friend with the lady working in the Congress, and she came and grabbed me out of the gallery and said, come with me.

And I said, okay. So I followed her and I ended up in the cloakroom on the Democratic side of the Senate, and all of a sudden the gavel hit and it was passed, conference committee passed, and there were shouts, and I'm sitting in the middle of the cloakroom. And the first person off the floor was Senator Kennedy, who was the fellow who carried the muscle on that, along with Senator Harkin.

And I'm standing there looking—I mean, sitting in my chair. And I thought, now what do I say? Senator Kennedy is coming at me at a nice clip, and I stuck my hand out and I said, you know, Senator, thank you. I didn’t know what else to say. And we stopped and chatted. But to your point, when we had the signing of the ADA on the lawn on the 26th day of January 1990, as a state of Indiana representative, it was gorgeous on the lawn, the sun was shining, the Marine band was playing and it was a moment in time when civil rights had reached its pinnacle for people with disabilities. And it was an honor to be there and represent our state.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

And I suspect it was part of the impetus, the inspiration for your work and your ongoing commitment to this work.

[GREG FEHRIBACH]

Yeah, I think, it was the ongoing impetus. Yes. And the continuation of how these great people did what they did for folks with disabilities. And I just thought it was a … what you do in this country, you carry on with the people that helped you and you continue to help the people you can help later on.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

And the work, of course, continues. And as part of that ongoing work, you founded the Fehribach Group in 1995. What prompted you to create this firm and are you still active in the firm today?

[GREG FEHRIBACH]

Yes. It was an offspring of my general practice, and I was a trial lawyer and a criminal defense lawyer is how I made my original economic—money. But I knew that this was going to be a way to move forward in a way that I would be beneficial. And so we set it aside as a small boutique and working with basically sports teams.

Going back to the days when I was, you know, student at Chatard and everything in my sports days and figuring out how do you work with teams and organizations to make their places accessible, because it was very fearful for large organizations on what the ADA meant. Economics, cost, etc. And so I began to be a lawyer, consultant, and person who would help teams and other organizations, cities, and towns get into the ADA and understand that it's not as painful as they thought it was going to be and showing them good ways to accomplish the goals of the act and not cause them anxiety.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

So we've spoken for a few minutes about your passion for disability rights. You're also quite passionate about something else—about Ball State University, your alma mater. In 2004, you were appointed by the governor to serve on our Board of Trustees, and you held that position for several years. What made you want to serve on the board?

[GREG FEHRIBACH]

You know, I think that a, as a continued relationship with the place that started with that nice group of people that got me here … and I enjoyed it. The ability to give back and participate and also be a person with disability in a leadership role at one of the major colleges in the United States. And if not one of the leading—the leading college as far as disability activity, etc., and thought maybe I might be able to do something for the university. And besides that, just enjoy meeting other good people who are part of this university for many years.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

And our board over many, many years consists of people like you who are committed to the mission and are willing to give of their time and expertise to help us fulfill those promises that we make to our students every year. So continuing down that pathway, in 2009, you were named a Distinguished Fellow at Ball State. I mentioned that in the introduction. It's a distinction for which you established The Disability Project, which is now the Greg Fehribach Center at Eskenazi Health. Tell us a bit about the center and your role in helping create this really innovative partnership between Ball State and Eskenazi.

[GREG FEHRIBACH]

Yes, I determined early on that economics was the best way for people with disabilities to really make a better life for themselves and the life for their communities. And again, and I mean, we're a capitalistic country. I believe in capitalism. And I don't think capitalism has been taught well to people with disabilities. And that could be a whole other conversation, which we can do someday.

But nonetheless, I wanted to show students—learners with disabilities, you know—they need to choose a path where they can be a part of their own individual independence. And I thought that a center would be important because it gave students a start, because a couple of good judges and a couple of good people gave me my start as an intern.

And I think it worked out well after that. So the center itself is to help encourage and provide internships, paid internships, and the students are, if you want to be an intern or if you want to be a sponsor of an intern, you are required to pay the minimum wage nationwide for the interns. And we have moved that forward. The idea being is that it encourages the students to want to be participants, but it also encourages organizations, corporations, etc. to see the value of a whole other group of diverse learners and a whole other group of diverse people who can actually step in to the breach and figure out ways to help their company. So we are —I’m a matchmaker.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

And a partnership … a collaboration. So just maybe a question or two more on this particular topic. Just a few months ago, this past March, you were named the chair of the United States Access Board. That's an independent federal agency that is devoted to accessibility for people with disabilities. I understand you were originally appointed to the board by President Obama and then reappointed by President Biden and, as I said, made the chair of this board. Kind of two questions and you can answer them both or answer whichever one you choose.

But, so first of all, what are the current issues that you and your fellow board members are focusing on? And maybe a slightly different, more ambitious question: What is your vision long term for a truly accessible country for all of our fellow citizens?

[GREG FEHRIBACH]

This is what a genius president of a great university does is it starts out and then teases the mind as it goes on from there. So well done, President Mearns. Simply in the beginning part, your first question, we just finished and have got authorized what they call the PROWAG, which is the act, the access board is not—we make the rules and kind of set up how it can help people who are owners, etc., doing what they talk about. How do you make it accessible? Concrete and steel is what our job is and a pedestrian right away is what the PROWAG is. And so simply how do you make sidewalks? How do you get from point a to point B as pedestrians in our country?

And the rules came out. And the rules are guidelines. They are to help cities and towns set up how the sidewalks work, the curb cuts, all the things we all see and now take for granted—

[GEOFF MEARNS]

So they're not necessarily federal mandates. They're designed for communities who want to do better for people.

[GREG FEHRIBACH]

Correct. And the mandate is that it must be accessible, okay? How do you get somebody through …  The guidelines give you a more hardcore answer to do that. But yet in the law, there's always ways that they say this is the beginning. You know, if it's a mountain you have to climb, you may not want to use the same way that we did in Indianapolis, where it's flat.

But nonetheless, there's some ideas, some program, some plans put together so that you can do that when you live in a particular situation different than the flat lands. And so those are the things that we've just finished working on. Our next step is aircraft. And I was in a meeting the other day and we're talking about how do we make airline travel for people with disabilities much better. That's a lot of.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

That's an aspirational project.

[GREG FEHRIBACH]

That's an aspirational project. And I'm pretty sure when that comes to fruition, I might be fishing somewhere, but I'm part of the process now.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Wonderful. So maybe on a, dialing it back a little bit to Ball State. I know you have great fondness for your alma mater. You mentioned sports in your high school and college days. I often see you and your wife at Ball State football games. You accept my invitation from time to time to join us in the suite to watch our Cardinal student athletes compete.

What are your hopes and expectations for the next year for our football Cardinals?

[GREG FEHRIBACH]

We want to be, you know, totally undefeated, of course. That's our hope and that's our aspect.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

And we're taking down Georgia, two-time defending champion on September 9th. Stay tuned.

[GREG FEHRIBACH]

Exactly, and then off to Kentucky.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Actually, we start Kentucky and then go to Georgia.

[GREG FEHRIBACH]

Okay, so we do that. So we know that they're going to be ready. We've got a great team and a wonderful coaching staff. And I think that the enthusiasm, these are good people and they'll perform as well as anybody on the field. And we look forward to—Mary Beth, and I've been season ticket holders for a long time and we look forward to seeing them win.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Well, and on that note, one of the things that makes me so proud and grateful to serve as the President of Ball State with respect to our student athletes, they compete so well on the field across many sport programs. They excel in the classroom. And both on campus, in the community, they also represent us with the character that we all embrace here at Ball State.

So speaking of character and values, I want to end our conversation with a question that I ask all of my guests. As you well know, here at Ball State, we're guided by our enduring values. And those values are represented by the iconic Statue of Beneficence. We passed it on our way over here just earlier this afternoon. And beneficence is the tangible symbol … it’s a reminder of our mission to empower our students to have fulfilling careers and to lead meaningful lives. And it's a representation—it means, beneficence means doing good through service and philanthropy for other people. So, Greg, what is beneficence? What does doing good for other people mean to you?

[GREG FEHRIBACH]

It means that I want to make sure that in whatever community, and especially at Ball State, is that this philosophy and continued work continues forward. And we have enjoyed that here at Ball State for a long time. We've got great alumni and great people working in the history. What's most important is there's a whole group of learners out there from K through 12 and I think whatever we can do, whatever Mary Beth I can do as a family and our sons—two graduates of Ball State, one daughter in law, and two new grandchildren that wear the Ball State garb at the game. So whatever we can do to help carry that on for the next group of people, that's what beneficence means to us here at Ball State.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Well said. So thank you, Greg. Thank you for joining me today and thank you for all that you do for our university, our students, our graduates, and our friends and neighbors all across the state.

[GREG FEHRIBACH]

It's my pleasure. Thank you, President Mearns. 

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Thank you.