S3E4: ‘Pay It Forward And Pass It On” (Betsy Ross, Author, Entrepreneur, Emmy-Winning Sports Reporter, and Former ESPN Anchor)

Betsy Ross is a Ball State graduate who became one of the first women to break into national sports news. Today, she is the president of Game Day Communications, a sports and entertainment communications firm based in Cincinnati. 

Betsy graduated from Ball State in 1972 with a degree in journalism. After working in print and television media in South Bend, Indiana, she became a television news anchor and reporter for the NBC affiliate in Cincinnati. 

In this episode, Betsy shares how her coverage of the 1996 Olympics in Atlanta caught the eye of producers at ESPN. She also shares more about the business she later founded, Game Day Communications, and why she was inspired to write a book honoring the accomplishments of female athletes who made possible the opportunities that women in sports have today. 

Betsy also shares highlights from some of her favorite interviews from her decades-long career as a journalist, including the inspiring words that tennis legend Billie Jean King shared with her that Betsy has never forgotten. 

If you enjoy this episode, please leave a review to support the show.

Transcript

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Hello, I'm Geoff Mearns, and I have the good fortune to serve as the president at Ball State University. The guest on my podcast today is Betsy Ross, a ball state graduate. Betsy is a trailblazer in the world of journalism. Having spent part of her career at ESPN. For a time, she was one of only five female anchors at that sports network.

I'm going to ask Betsy about her days behind the anchor desk. But first, I want to share a bit more about her background and her connection to our university. Betsy grew up in Indiana, and she earned her bachelor's degree in journalism from Ball State in 1972. She then attended Notre Dame University, where she earned her Master of Arts in communication in 1977.

Betsy's career in journalism began in newspapers, but she soon transitioned to broadcast news, where she rose to prominence as a reporter for WRAL TV, The NBC affiliate in Cincinnati, Ohio. While she was reporting for that network from the 1996 Olympics in Atlanta, Betsy caught the attention of producers from ESPN who were looking for anchors to launch ESPN News.

Soon after that, she was offered the job and she began working for the cable sports channel, eventually anchoring SportsCenter on the weekends. Betsy's experience in sports journalism led to her second career as president of Game Day Communications, a sports and entertainment communications firm that she founded in 2002, and that is headquartered in Cincinnati. Betsy is also an author, a visiting professor and a member of the Ball State University Foundation board.

So I appreciate that in the midst of all that keeps her so very busy, she made time to sit down with me in the studio for this conversation. Betsy, welcome to the podcast and thank you for joining me today.

[BETSY ROSS]

Well, thank you so much for that nice introduction. You know, it's always fun to come back to Ball State. You wander around and you remember what you were doing when you were a freshman and you were a sophomore. And I just went through the CCIM Building and I see all the opportunities that students have now to do hands-on work. They're in the studios and they're cutting video and they're doing so many exciting things and that doesn't even count, going to the athletic department and working with them and working on the sidelines. They have so many opportunities now. 

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Well, and they also have the opportunity to visit with experienced folks like you. So we appreciate you taking the time to be with them as well. So why don't we go back a little bit to your beginning. I always like to ask my guests about their childhood, their upbringing. So you're a native Hoosier, so tell me a little bit about where in Indiana you were born and raised and tell us a little bit about your family.

[BETSY ROSS]

So I am from Connersville, Indiana, close to Muncie. And I was one of these kids, I was very, very fortunate that when I was in sixth grade, I knew exactly what I wanted to do. I knew that I wanted to be in journalism. And of course, back then, you didn't know what form that was going to look like.

But I just remember Nancy Dickerson from NBC News at the White House news conferences and the president knew Nancy Dickerson's name. And I said, if I'm a journalist, the president's going to know my name. So that was appealing to me right there. But I knew that I wanted to write. I knew that I wanted to be in journalism. And of course, I didn't know how or where or what that was going to look like, but I was able to have an idea. And I think that so many of the students, they have to wait. They have to take their time, they have to figure out what they want to do. And there's nothing wrong with that at all, especially when you're in school.

I always tell students that try this, try that, try everything. It's better to know when you're in school what you like and especially what you don't like. Then after you graduate and you go, “Well, now what do I do?” But I was very fortunate. I was one of these kids that I, I went to a one-room school. I went to two one-room schools in Fayette County, Indiana. And it hasn't been that long ago. But there were two one-room schools that I that I attended. And I and I tell kids that and they think that I went to school with Abraham Lincoln and I said, “No, he was in the grade in front of me. You know, he wasn’t in my grade.” 

But, you know, it’s— you can argue all you want about, well, what kind of education did you get in a one-room school and not knowing what other educations looked like. But the education I got was great because it was one on one. It literally was one on one. The teacher would bring up each of our classes and we would go through the assignment. But you weren't lost. Obviously. There were like 36 of us in the entire school in four grades. You weren't lost. You were in this small room, but you had the attention of the teacher, the teacher all the time. He or she was always accessible. You could always ask questions. And it was just so interesting to have that kind of attention.

When you're growing up and you're learning and you're reading and you're trying to figure out what you want to do, I enjoyed it just because you weren't in a big class, you weren't in a larger school. Having said that, you go from a one-room schoolhouse to Connersville High School, which at that time had like 1700 kids in it, and you walk in the door and it was a little overwhelming, I have to say, that very first day. 

But I always knew I wanted to do something with words. My mother taught me how to read early, so I read anything and everything I could find. You know, I was one of these kids that, you know, like when kids watched Frozen for the eighteenth time and it seems all brand new.

I was like that with books. I would check out a book at the library, and then my mother had to extend it because I wanted to read it again, because it might be different this time. But I read anything and everything that I could. And so, you know, that was kind of my window to the world to be able to go anywhere I wanted to, through a book.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Yeah. So I understand from one of our conversations that there was a class assignment when you were in school that kind of really accelerated your path to your profession as a journalist. Can you tell us that story?

[BETSY ROSS]

I was in, I believe it was sixth grade, now that I remember it. And Candace Murray was the local gossip columnist, if you will, for the Connersville News Examiner. And I always thought it was very fascinating. Again, this is a woman…. this is a woman who has a regular column in the newspaper, which, you know, was kind of groundbreaking right there.

And she was doing what I wanted to do. And so the assignment that we had was to interview somebody. Didn't matter who. And so a lot of the kids would interview their parents or they would interview their brother or they'd interview somebody in their family. And I said, “I want to interview Candice Murray.” And so my mother called up, said, “Can we come up?”

She said, “Sure.” And so I had to wait until Dad got home from work because there was one car. So wait until Dad got home from work. We got in the car and we drove into Connersville and it was probably, you know, five or six o’clock and this was an afternoon paper. So everybody would have been gone from the newsroom by them.

So we went to the News Examiner and there's Candice Murray, and she was delightful and she gave me a wonderful interview. Just about what she did and how she got started and her contacts that she used and things like that. But I walk into this newsroom and it's like the set of an old time movie. It's like cigarette butts and ashtrays, and there's piles of newspapers and piles of photos and, you know, everything like that, you know, wax pencils that you used to mark the photos with and all this stuff. And I go, “This is the greatest place on earth right here. I love it. I love the smell of the ink. I love the smell, the newspaper. I love that everybody's desk was chaotic. I said, these are my people—

[GEOFF MEARNS]

At the sixth grade?

[BETSY ROSS]

At the sixth grade! These are my people! And so I just loved it. I just thought, how cool is this? And I always wonder what would have happened if Candice Murray had not given me that interview.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Had said no.

[BETSY ROSS]

Yeah. And she became a friend. And I would send her notes and she would send me notes if, you know, there was something in the newspaper about me. And, you know, I think that’s why when a student wants to talk to me, I go out of my way to make sure that I do talk to them because I know what Candice Murray meant to me and my career. And so I always try to go out of my way to talk to a student because you never know. You never know what that will mean for that student in the future.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Right. And so I tell both our students as well as my peers, when asked a question, say yes when you're given an opportunity.

[BETSY ROSS]

Yeah, figure out. Figure out a yes. It's easier to say no, but figure out a yes. 

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Yeah. So we're going to, you know, work our way back up. But I want to jump ahead and back at the same time. So we're going to talk about your success as a sports reporter. But when you were growing up, were you also a sports fan? Sounds like you were a journalism junkie, but were you a sports fan, too?

[BETSY ROSS]

I was. And I got that from my mother as well. You know, back in the day, when New Year's Day ball games were four of them.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

On your black and white TV.

[BETSY ROSS]

On  the black and white TV, that weighed about what, two tons? Three tons? Sitting there in the living room, my mother and I would plant ourselves in front of the television and we would start watching the Cotton Bowl and we go all the way through to the Orange Bowl game at night. My father would leave the house. He'd go hunting because he had no interest in sitting there watching all that football. But my mother and I would sit there and watch football and of course, watch baseball. We were Reds fans growing up, so you would watch the Reds broadcast. But I really got my love of sports from her. And I always tell this story about my sister, my older sister, Jeanie. She had already left for college, left for Ball State. And so you know, I was kind of out there in the country by myself. It wasn't like we were in a neighborhood. So if I wanted to play basketball or anything like that, I have to try to see if I can get mom or dad or somebody to play with me. Well, mom would usually come out and play basketball with me. And so there was one tape. Of course, we have a hoop in the back because that's—

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Everybody in Indiana has a—

[BETSY ROSS]

Yeah, you have to have a hoop. So I had to have a hoop in the back. And so we're playing basketball and she's got the ball and she's coming in and she starts to shoot. And I put my hand up to guard and I pop her in the nose and there's just blood everywhere. You know, anytime you get like any kind of a little cut, anything on you, I mean, it's just awful and, you know, oh, I’ve broken my mother, you know, and she wasn't badly hurt, but boy, it was bloody. So I go into school the next day and I'm talking about this and I say, “Yeah, So we were playing one on one and I, you know, I popped her in like, Yeah, just blood everywhere.”

And they said, “How could you hit your mother in the nose?” I said, “She was driving the lane. What did you expect?” And so they go, “Oh well yeah I understand now.” Because again, Indiana.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Yeah. You don't let anybody go to the hoop.

[BETSY ROSS]

Absolutely not.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

So you mentioned it sounded like your sister went to Ball State. Were you also attracted to Ball State because of our longstanding history of an outstanding journalism program?

[BETSY ROSS]

Journalism obviously, because, you know, we had J-Days in high school. You know, we would come up here on Saturdays, and so we would have all these journalism workshops. And my sister came here. She was an el ed major. But, you know, she really paved the way in a couple of ways for me to come here. First of all, because we were up here all the time for her.

And, you know, we got to be familiar with the campus and, you know, we knew everything about it. You know, the soda shop in the Village, you know, we knew where to get a chili coney and those things. So we were familiar with that. But then also, by the time that I got to Ball State, she had graduated and she was settled into her teaching job.

And so to repay my parents for the sacrifices they made to get me through school, then Jeanie helped with my tuition and my room and board and, you know, took some of that burden off of my parents so that, you know, between the two of us, we got out of school without debt. But it took sacrifices from my sister to get me through and our parents to get both of us through.

But that was just one thing that I never went a day without my mother's words ringing in my head that you have to get an education. That's the way that you're going to succeed. You have to get an education. And so my sister and I heard that from day one, how important education was. And my mother, she had gone through sophomore year of high school and then quit to get married because that's kind of what you did then.

And so we would always talk to her about going back and getting her GED at the time. And so when she was 82, she went back and got her GED. And I mean, did the whole cap and gown, did the walk in the auditorium, walked across the stage because she knew how important education was and is. And when she was 82, she got that GED.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

What a wonderful story. 

[BETSY ROSS]

Oh, I mean, it was one of my proudest moments. 

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Yeah. So while you are here as a student at Ball State, was there a particular person, a faculty member or a staff member that you recall was your mentor as a student or perhaps maybe inspired you on your own professional journey?

[BETSY ROSS]

Well, at that particular time in journalism, we had a couple of icons. We had Dr. Ingelhardt and Dr. Conn. Dr. Ingelhardt, you know, First Amendment, you know, books and stories and speeches and preached about it. And Dr. Conn was just, you know, he was like the, you know, good cop, bad cop, you know? And Dr. Englehardt was rough and he was stern and he was this and that, the other.

And Dr. Conn was kind of like, at least to mehe was like the good cop. And, you know, they were really two icons of this journalism program back then. And, you know, so many people still talk about Louis Ingelhardt and what he meant to the journalism faculty and to the journalism students here. And so, you know, those two really I think, you know, they brought journalism down to, you know, for me it was, oh, great, I get to play with words. But they really brought home to me the responsibility of journalism and journalists. And, you know, it's in this world of who's a journalist, who's not, who's a reporter who's not, you know, there is still room for solid journalism and Dr. Ingelhardt and Dr. Conn just preach that, you know, no bias, tell the truth, tell both sides. Basic things that we don't always see every day.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

In fact, the need is probably greater than ever before.

[BETSY ROSS]

Absolutely.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

To have objective journalism as opposed to opinion pieces dressed up as journalism.

[BETSY ROSS]

Absolutely. And I think that, you know, the more that we can get back to that and remember what journalism with a capital J as we always used to say. What journalism means, the real true definition of journalism, not just something that you, you know, plaster out there on social media, but really what journalism and what the responsibility of journalism is and has.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Yeah. So after you graduated from Ball State, you migrated further north to South Bend. I understand you worked at the South Bend Tribune. What was your first job at the newspaper?

[BETSY ROSS]

Mm hmm. Well, my first job was copy editor, so I'm on the copy desk.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

And was it a morning paper? Afternoon paper? 

[BETSY ROSS]

Afternoon paper. And it was, the paper of record in that area. And so, I mean, what a great—again, going back to true journalists, what a great experience that was. You know, I was on the copy desk and so you went over everybody else's copy and, you know, cut any kind of typos or things like that. You wrote the headlines and then you sent it off and it was it was a good experience for me because what a better way to learn about an area. I was not that familiar with South Bend, Elkhart, Mishawaka, until I got on the copy desk. And then, like, I'm reading like tons of stories about that area. So it was a great way for me to learn the area.

But on the copy desk was a gentleman named Earl Mishler, and Earl Mishler was more or less he was second in command on that copy desk, but his passion was sports, especially high school sports, high school football, high school basketball, especially high school basketball. And you know, as technology advanced, he had a website and he'd have all these stats. I mean, going back decades of high school basketball in Indiana. And, you know, Earl and I would talk sports and he said, “Well, you should you should do something with the sports department. You know, they're always looking for people to help.” And so I literally walked across the hall. I said, “Do you guys need some help?” And of course, you know, all they want is a warm body. And so they sent me out to do high school football in northern Indiana, which is passionate.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

To report on it. Right. The stories?

[BETSY ROSS]

Yeah, I would write the stories. That was the first time I got kicked out of a press box was at Clay High School in South Bend, Indiana. 

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Why did they keep you out?

[BETSY ROSS]

Well, because, you know, I climb up those stairs and I'm a girl and I see all these empty, you know, seats over there. You guys got room? Oh, no. Sorry. No, no, it's taken up, so. Yeah, So my first that was my claim to fame. My first press box. I got kicked out of. But, you know, I mean, they just sent me out and I kind of, like, learned it on the fly.

And, you know, they trusted me enough. They sent me to high school football. They sent me to high school basketball. And then like, when the normal Notre Dame beat reporter, when he got sick or he's stuck in a traffic jam, they'd sent me out to cover Notre Dame. And, you know, I had all this great experience doing that.

And I was just meeting with a couple of students from CCIM, and I said, you know, I don't think I got paid for that. I don't think I got paid a dime for that. But the experience I got was amazing. The experience I got was much more valuable than, you know, the five bucks an hour they would have paid me or $4.45 or whatever it was.

I got such great experience and you know, you, you get to know the ropes. You get to know, you know, how to do it. And the most important thing is once you show up week after week, month after month, and they trust you, they say, “Oh, okay, well, I saw her article last week, so yeah, she knows what she's doing.”

So you build up trust among coaches that may not know who you are, but they know your work. And so then then you get access to interviews and you get to talk to players. And so, you know, you just kind of went out there and I kept my nose down and wrote a lot of notes and wrote a lot of stories. But, you know, that was really my first foray into doing sports full-time was when the South Bend Tribune gave me that opportunity.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

You know, another example of saying yes and then go to work—

[BETSY ROSS]

And figure it out. 

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Yeah. So you attended Notre Dame while you were working in South Bend, and after you graduated from Notre Dame, you started working for the ABC affiliate in South Bend. What prompted that transition from print journalism to broadcast journalism.

[BETSY ROSS]

I have to go back to Watergate. And, as we mentioned, South Bend Tribune was an afternoon paper, so we were done by noon. We were wrapped up by noon, unless there was something really, really breaking, there would be a late Green Streak. Like on Notre Dame football Saturdays. There would be a Green Streak late.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

And a Green Streak was an add on that just?

[BETSY ROSS]

Yeah, and literally it was it was an extra edition and it would have a green streak down the side. Yeah. But it was like an afternoon, late afternoon edition and that was saved just for Notre Dame coverage. Or if there was something traumatic, tragic that actually happened in the afternoon. But we were done by noon. So while we were working on the next day's paper or maybe Sunday's paper, we had the television on in the newsroom and it was the Watergate hearings.

And I would watch the Watergate hearings. And I'm going, We can't do a thing about that until tomorrow morning. We're sitting here. We are a news operation, and we as a newspaper can't do a darn thing about it until tomorrow morning. And then by tomorrow morning, it's a whole new set of witnesses and a whole new train of questions. And so we were working, you know, 12 to 18 hours behind what television was giving us.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

So you were already anticipating what we now refer to as the 24-hour cycle.

[BETSY ROSS]

And it really was back then. I mean, I can’t remember ... you know, you look at Watergate, you look at Iran-Contra, you look at, you know, some of those really riveting moments that we all sat around and watched television and watched history unfold. You can go all the way up to 9/11, but there's nothing that beats getting the information, as we know now, there's nothing that beats getting the information now. Immediately. We are used to that now. Don't even have to have a television. We can do it on our phones. We can do on our own computers. But when I was watching the Watergate hearings, I thought, we can't do a darn thing about this. 

You know, if I were working in television, well yeah, you have immediate reaction, immediate turnaround. And so that's really what got into my head that, you know, maybe if I really want to be a journalist and if I really want to kind of honor the commitment that I have to get news out correctly, fairly, as quickly as possible, I kind of had to go into that television area.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

And so that would give you an opportunity to be on the 6 p.m. news or ten or 11 news. So from South Bend, you eventually migrated all the way back south to the NBC affiliate in Cincinnati. And you were working there and were you covering both news and sports?

[BETSY ROSS]

Well, I kind of finagled my way. I was a news anchor, morning news and then noon and the early evening news. But NBC then and now shows the Olympics. And in 1996, when the Olympics were in Atlanta, we had probably had two dozen athletes, coaches, trainers from the Cincinnati area who were going to be at the Atlanta Olympics.

So it became part of our news cycle that we would do features on, you know, these athletes and these coaches and trainers. And so I asked my news director, I said, “I want to cover the Atlanta Olympics—"

[GEOFF MEARNS]

From Atlanta? You want to be in Atlanta?

[BETSY ROSS]

Well, absolutely I do. Yeah. Right. Yeah. You know, they didn't want to have the hassle of actually recruiting somebody when they've got somebody that's wanting to do it. So I volunteered to cover the Atlanta Olympics. We went down to Atlanta for the year. Our anniversary did a year's worth of features on the coaches and the trainers and the athletes.

That was the year of the Magnificent Seven gymnasts. We had two of the gymnasts and one of the coaches from Cincinnati. We had rowers, we had swimmers, we had divers, we had sailors. We had a little bit of everybody. Track and field. We had so many athletes down there. And so it was a natural story to cover with all these people from our area that were going to the Olympics.

And at that particular time, ESPN was looking for people who could anchor ESPN News. Basically, you know, someone who could anchor a half hour, hour at a time, but who also knew sports. And so I was anchoring news, but then I also had the sports side of it as well.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

So this was ... they saw you while you were while you were broadcasting and reporting from Atlanta. That also must have been a pretty intense experience because if you're covering a wide array of sports at the Olympics, there's competition ten, 12, 14 hours a day.

[BETSY ROSS]

Oh, yeah. And of course, in the middle of it was a bombing at the Centennial Park. And it was one of those days that, you know, we had been there for 14 hours. I interviewed Larry Hagman that night. I remember it was a Friday night. The Tennessee delegation had a huge... it wasn't even a tent. It was like a condo. Basically, there at Centennial Park. They had Larry Hagman in there, you know, so I got to interview Larry Hagman, which was, you know, very much a highlight, thank you very much. And so we're driving back after our Olympic coverage, and it was like 12:30 in the morning and we're driving back and all of a sudden this pickup truck speeds up, comes up beside us, the guy motions to roll down your window.

And so Rufus, our driver, rolled down the window and the guy in the truck goes, “There's been a bombing at Centennial Park!” And we're going, “Oh, all right, all right. Thank you. Thank you.” And we're going, “Oh, he's drunk. We just came from Centennial Park. Nothing's happened. Are you kidding me? You know he's drunk. Get his license.” So we, like, wrote down his license plate and all that stuff. So of course, we get to the hotel, we walk into the lobby—

[GEOFF MEARNS]

And there it is on every television.

[BETSY ROSS]

There it is on every television, there are like 15 people standing around the television. And we go, “Well, okay.” So we all went back to our rooms, got a change of clothes, went right back down. 

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Wow. So while you're at the Olympics, were you aware that ESPN was thinking of recruiting women?

[BETSY ROSS]

No, I had no idea.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

How did you become aware of it? And tell us what your reaction was when they offered you the position.

[BETSY ROSS]

Oh, I turned down the first time I turned them down.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

I thought we've been talking about saying, “Yes.” Explain this to me.

[BETSY ROSS]

I turned them down. It was one of these things that, you know, I was back in my home area. I was back in Cincinnati. Cincinnati was the television market I grew up watching, you know, half the people I was working with I grew up watching. I mean, I was home and I was doing news, I was doing sports, I was anchoring, I was working Monday through Friday, which often doesn't happen in in broadcasting. I wasn't working weekends. Yeah, I was settled. I was happy.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

And ESPN then was not quite .. not nearly what we understand ESPN networks to be today.

[BETSY ROSS]

No, but I mean, I still watched ESPN, you know, every morning, every night. I always had it on. So I was very flattered. But, I mean, my first reaction was to say no, because I was so settled. And you know, sometimes good gets in the way of great, you know, as the book says.

And so, I was good. I was happy. And then, you know, you kind of sat back and looked and thought, well, you know, I get to do sports full time. It's a network. It's national. You have resources that you'll never have anywhere else. And so, then I agreed to go to ESPN and I was on the air when 9/11 happened.

It was one of these things that it was crystal blue day, it was a Tuesday, and I was flying back to Cincinnati that afternoon. So I always really paid attention to the weather and it was just a crystal blue day. And I was in the newsroom. And of course, the first plane hit. And, you know, everybody ... everybody's just kind of looking like, well, that's strange. Can't you see that building in front of you? Why would you hit that building? And it really didn't resonate until the second plane hit. And so then we thought, okay, this is something and then—

[GEOFF MEARNS]

This is not an accident.

[BETSY ROSS]

Yeah. So, so we had to do something. So I'm the only anchor in the building because it's eight, nine o’clock. I'm the only anchor in the building. So they put me on the air and like every top of the hour and every bottom of the hour, I went across every ESPN network, national, international, I went across every ESPN network, basically one minute saying, “Yes, we know what's going on. We are covering an apparent terrorist attack on the United States. Please watch your ABC News affiliate for the latest.” And so we did that until there was sports news coming out like the NFL canceled, the MLB slate was canceled. You know, they were having news conferences. But, you know, I sat there until four o’clock doing that. And, you know, it was just one of these things that words that you never thought would come out of your mouth, an apparent terrorist attack on the United States and, you know, you just go, wow, I can't believe I just said that.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Yeah. And certainly you weren't getting on a plane that afternoon.

[BETSY ROSS]

No, not for a while.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Well, before we go forward, why don't maybe on a more positive experience at ESPN. Is there a particular person you interviewed that was .... where you said either “That was a really good interview” or “That was a lot of fun”? Any one or two you remember in particular?

[BETSY ROSS]

I always give this example and it was one of these like, strange interviews. It was Pedro Martinez. I'll give you two, Lance Armstrong and Pedro Martinez. Pedro Martinez, he had just won the Cy Young. I think he was still with Montreal. His contract was up with Montreal. He knew his life was going to change. He knew he wasn't going to be stay in Montreal.

And I remember doing this interview with him and he was just a scared kid. He was going to be a very rich, scared kid, but he was just a scared kid. He had no idea what was going to happen. And I remember doing that interview. And sometimes you forget that these are young men, young men, especially someone like Pedro Martinez, coming to another country, being in Montreal, being a pitcher, and now his life is going to change and you know what's going to happen.

And another interview I did, a satellite interview, was with Lance Armstrong. And this was after like three or four of his tours. And this was before we knew—

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Before there were rumors, but there wasn't really evidence of his using substances. 

[BETSY ROSS]

Yes. So when you get ready to do one of these satellite interviews, there's always a technician on the other end with the person that you're going to interview. And they had us up on the satellite early and I could hear the P.A. going, “Okay, Lance, the next interview is going to be with ESPN. You're going to be talking with Betsy Ross.” And Lance Armstrong goes, “Betsy Ross...Bety Ross.” And I'm sitting on the other end of this—

[GEOFF MEARNS]

You can hear this —

[BETSY ROSS]

Yeah, I can hear him. I'm going, Oh, great. Here comes a joke. And he goes, Betsy Ross, the flag.  Yeah. You know what's really cool when you're coming down the Champs-Élysées, that last mile, and both sides of the street are lined with people and they all have American flags and they're cheering for you. And it's such a great sight to see all these people and their American flags and they just want you to finish or they're in there cheering for you. And that's such a great sight and that's such a great feeling. I go, Wow, that was deep. And he was just saying it to air. He wasn't saying it to me. He wasn't saying it to the technician.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

He was just reflecting before the interviews.

[BETSY ROSS]

Yeah, he was just saying it and I go, that was really profound. And how much deep down inside, again, that's before we knew or hinted or anything that he would come up with that, that what a great sight that is. All those American flags and the Champs-Élysées in Paris. 

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Probably a pretty special feeling.

[BETSY ROSS]

I'm sure.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

So speaking of special feelings, you then maybe, I guess 15, 20 years ago founded Game Day Communications, your own company. What are you most proud of in your company?

[BETSY ROSS]

Oh, overall, I would say the thing I'm most proud of is that we're in our 21st year. Not many startups get to that point.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Yeah, you're not a startup any longer.

[BETSY ROSS]

No, we're not a startup any longer. You know, I'm very proud that we're there. I'm very proud of the work that we have done in general. But you know, specifically we are you know, I'm proud of the work that we do with some of the some of the Cincinnati hometown products, if you would, you know, if you want to call them that. Something like the Cincinnati Flying Pig Marathon, which brings in 40,000 people in the month of May for one weekend to run. But it's such a celebration of the city and it's so fun to be part of that. When the Bengals went to the Super Bowl, we had a pop-up media center out in L.A. because we wanted to tell Cincinnati’s story. You know, you don't have opportunities like that, especially if you're the Bengals. You don't have opportunities.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

As a Bengals fan, I know they don't come around very often.

[BETSY ROSS]

I hope there will be one again very soon. But you don't get an opportunity like that to tell your story to an international audience. And so what we did was we set up a pop-up media center at LAX, and we brought in former Bengals and we brought in nonprofit organizations from Cincinnati, we brought in people from the arts. We brought in people from Meals on Wheels and you know, different advocacy groups, to talk about what they do and what they mean to Cincinnati. And the mayor had his news conference at our pop-up media center. The governor, when he came into town to L.A., he did his news conference at that media center. Not only did Cincinnati media hang out there, but L.A. media hung out there, too, because they needed content. They wanted to cover the story, too. So, you know, I think that, you know, overall, I'm proud that we are here, but I love when we get to advocate for our hometown. I love when we get to show off what's really cool about our region. And that includes Indiana, too. You know, southeastern Indiana, it’s fun to be able to tell other people the amazing stories that we have in this area. And, you know, that's ... I get a kick out of that every time. 

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Yeah. Because like Ball State, we sometimes get a little overlooked by some of those folks on the two coasts. So a couple more questions. Of course, you're still promoting sports and you're working for your company, but you also wrote a book. It's called “Playing Ball with the Boys: The Rise of Women in Men's Sports.” So tell us a little bit about what did you hope to accomplish by writing that book? What's the message that people who will read that book, what will they take away?

[BETSY ROSS]

The thing that I think that I had in the back of my mind was that I wanted young girls to see the history of what had been done, what has been done. And, you know, we always say that we stand on the shoulders of those who came before us and I think it's so important to remember the Billie Jean Kings and the Phyllis Georges and the Janet Guthrie's who made it possible for Danica Patrick to be a star.

You know, Billie Jean King, who fought for equality, fights to this day for equality. Somebody like Phyllis George, where you think, well, she was a Miss America, you know, what did she do? Well, she really made the NFL accessible. She made NFL players people, because we didn't see them off the field. We only saw them with their helmets and their shoulder pads on. But she did features of them off the field, at their ranch, at their job. Back then, they had to have a job besides playing football. But she made the NFL accessible and she made it popular because she made the players people. And so I think that any of us, all of us who look to what we want to do, we need to remember those who made it possible that we had those avenues and those opportunities. I would not be able to do what I'm doing without a Billie Jean King or a Phyllis George. 

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Yeah. So let me ask a question. It's, as my listeners know, it's the question I ask, the last question, I ask all of my guests. You've been so generous here at Ball State. You engage with our students. You've provided generous philanthropic support for scholarships for our students. As I mentioned in the introduction, you serve on our Foundation's board of directors.

You appeared in the public launch of our capital campaign a few weeks ago, and you well know, I often speak about the enduring values that distinguish our university and. One of those values is gratitude. And I always emphasize that for us here at Ball State, gratitude is not just saying thank you. It's demonstrating your gratitude through your through your many contributions, through your work.

So and all of those values are represented by Beneficence. This afternoon on this beautiful fall day here in Muncie, we walked right by the statue of Beneficence. And beneficence at its essence means the quality of doing good through service and philanthropy. So, Betsy, what does beneficence, what does doing good for other people? What does that mean to you?

[BETSY ROSS]

In short, I think it just means it's your responsibility. I think any of us who reach whatever level of success that we judge is success. I think it's our responsibility and I can tell my Billie Jean King story, if you don't mind.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Please do. 

[BETSY ROSS]

Because it really tells a lot. And I will tell this story until my dying breath because it meant so much to me then and it means so much to me now. So I do the interview with Billie Jean King at Great American Ballpark. She was in Cincinnati to get an award on their civil rights game.

And again, MLB says, “Oh, no, you can't interview her.” Well, you know, it's just like, no, she's not going to have to. She's very busy. She's not going to have time. And so one of my friends from the Reds kind of finagled and went around and said, “Okay, you got 5 minutes in the tunnel. I said, “Fine, I'll take it.”

So I did an interview with Billie Jean King, and afterwards I shook her hand and I said, I know that you've heard this a million times, but I said, I just want to thank you for everything that you have done and everything that you have gone through to allow me to do what I'm doing now in sports. And she said, That's great. But let me ask you something. How do they treat you here? How do they treat you here? Like, how do all these guys that you work with here, how do they treat you? And so I said, “Well, we've grown up together. We've worked together for some 20 years. They know my work, they respect my work. And so, yes, they treat me very well.”

And she said, “Good. Pay it forward and pass it on.” And those words, I think, just resonate across the board for everyone. Every one of us. Pay it forward and pass it on. If you are successful, I think it's your responsibility to make sure that others can enjoy those opportunities as well. I mean, my sister graduated from college and she could have said, “Hey, you know, you're on your own kid.”

But she didn't. She paid it forward, literally. She helped pay for my expenses so that I could go to college and so my parents wouldn't have that burden. And now she's paying it forward with a scholarship that she has in Teachers College, in her name and my family name, and that will pay it forward for yet another generation of students that come through Ball State.

I think that it's your responsibility because we have been so fortunate. President Mearns, I know you feel the same way. I think that we have been so fortunate to be where we are and to serve the people that we serve, and I think it's just natural that you want to make sure that others have that opportunity and to have the chance to do what they want to do.

And that's the best way to do it. Pay it forward and pass it on, make sure that that next generation has those opportunities. And I think that is just something that is ingrained in beneficence and our gratitude code. And what better way to show gratitude to those who helped you than to help others at the same time.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

It's that wonderful, virtuous cycle. So I feel fortunate to be here, fortunate, and grateful that you joined me for this conversation and that you shared your experiences with of those who are listening. So thank you very much for all that you do for all of us, especially our students here at Ball State.

[BETSY ROSS]

Well, thank you. I am impressed every time that I visit with the students here, what they do, what they're accomplishing. You know, I, I, I didn't have that foresight when I was here. You know, I would never thought to get the kind of experiences that they have here that they are afforded that they can take advantage of. And every time I come to campus, I am so impressed by the quality of students here, what they are doing, and what they're going to do in the future. I can't wait to see them.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

I agree. Thank you, Betsy.

[BETSY ROSS]

Thank you.