CONNECT WITH S.U.C.C.E.S.S. Transcripts
Podcast Episode #10, Launch Date: July 21, 2021
With Dr. Rich Smith and Dr. Lynette Scotese-Wojtila
Subject: Growing Up With The S.U.C.C.E.S.S. Approach
Want to help your child and your whole family using The SUCCESS Approach? Check out our online course: https://www.thesuccessapproach.org/online-course
{INTRO MUSIC}
LYNETTE: Welcome to connect with success with Dr. Lynette Scotese-Wojtila where we help connect you with knowledge. Our mission is to lead you to a new and exciting way of understanding, responding to, and helping all those with autism. We hope to expand your thinking about how to best serve these amazing people and to support you in your daily struggles and celebrations.
RICH: Welcome everyone to the 10th episode of Connect with S.U.C.C.E.S.S., a podcast built around the S.U.C.C.E.S.S. Approach and the person who coined it, Dr. Lynette Scotese-Wojtila. Today’s episode is very special because we’re going ot be presenting our second SUCCESSFUL synthesis session. And in our synthesis episodes, we provide a review of the key ideas in 3-4 episodes that were previously aired to help remind you of the information that was presented. As we visit the information, we’ll help you integrate or synthesize past concepts and something useful for you in your particular situation. So let’s start revisiting. What are we going to be revisiting today, Dr. Lynette?
LYNETTE: Well, in our SUCCESS synthesis session 1, which was episode 105, we reminded our listeners of the terms: transdisciplinary (episode 101), readiness (episode 102), sense-making (episode 103), and the sensory systems (episode 104). And those are all very helpful. We’re always going to be building on those methods. So in today’s second synthesis, we’re going to revisit the ideas of information processing, social pragmatic theory, and developmental model.
RICH: Great. So what would you say is some of the key points in episodes 6-8 that can help our listeners further synthesize that idea?
LYNETTE: Well, the first one from 106, which was information processing, I think our listeners will remember the term “schema.” Schema is nothing more or less than a mental representation for an idea or a set of events. The way that most of us develop schema is through experience. We have the item and we’re looking at a feature or attribute of it and we’re sort of relying on our past to build on what we know about it. And that all happens very naturally and normally. But sometimes when we have special needs individuals or especially children with autism, they have what listeners will remember is a Gestalt learning style which means that they kind of learn things in a whole kind of way and they have a hard time generalizing. So, what you might you remember is that when we expose our kids to new ideas and concepts, we have to make sure that we’re giving them the opportunity to generalize from the get-go, otherwise they think that there’s only one way to go to grandma’s house and its 2 lefts, a right, and a left. And that sort of Gestalt memorization of an experience like getting to grandma’s can stop them from being adaptive when there’s a detour one day and you have to go a different way. So we want to help our audience be reminded that this is neurological. This is how our brains are wired. If we can learn in a sequential way, then we have a good outcome for schemas and we can access information that’s been memorized and we can recall and use it. Kids that have a Gestalt learning style don’t always have that ability to generalize, so they’re going to recall information by associations that we don’t even think of like how many lefts and rights there are on the way to grandma’s house. We don’t retain that, those of us who are sequential learners. So that’s just an important difference to remember.
RICH: If our memory serves correctly, then we move into the social pragmatic theory, we talked a little bit about reciprocity.
LYNETTE: Yes we did. And a lot of people don’t know that reciprocity is nothing more than a ping and a pong to a relationship or interaction. One of the things thatr we always want to try and remember is that communication, first of all, has a lot of different purposes or serves a lot of different functions. Sometimes we’re requesting, protesting, commenting, greeting, sharing ideas, expressing ourself. So we all have these preconceived notions about how interactions are going to, and we have to remember that individuals with autism don’t have that same perspective for what communication is all about. And so we first have to make sure that we understand, what are they looking at? Where is there attention? And if we can join them in their attention, we’re going to be able to interact better. That’s foreign for most people, so we have to remind our listeners and we will go on this week with more examples of that.
RICH: So then we went on with developmental theory, right?
LYNETTE: We did. And one of the things that we really emphasize in developmental model is the importance of play. Play, play play is the child’s work. Through play, all sorts of things happen: motor skills develop, cognitive ideas are understood and grasped and process, socialization – understanding how one thing impacts the other and how the environment influences us. All these things are learned through play and that’s important to know because we don’t engage our kids in play because we’re too busy working on toileting, or trying to get them to talk or listen, or socialize. But, if we can play with them in a way that meets their needs at their level, always going from their perspective, we can expand new concepts through that play.
RICH: WELCOME BACK TO CONNECT WITH SUCCESS. We’re gonna head in to the meat and potatoes of this session. In this particular synthesis session, we’re going to do something different. We’re going to take a look at the last 3 models and theories in our last few episodes and Dr. Lynette is going to give us how it can be woven in to one good example. So what would that look like if we’re looking at information processing, developmental model, and social pragmatic. Help us out. What would that look like?
LYNETTE: Ok so, what we do here at ITC as many people know. First of all, we’re a teaching facility in addition to being a training facility and treatment center. Therefore, we have a lot of students that we’ve entertained over the years. Hundreds of students at the college level. Right now we have 2 amazing students from Gannon University in Erie, the master’s level OT program. As their fieldwork supervisor, I’m in the trenches and explaining things to them. So a good example of how these things come together came to us as we were working with a little 3 year-old, actually I think he’s going on 4, who needs help playing. He’s very high energy. He doesn’t have great tone, so he’s a little floppy kind of thin child. Beautifully exited, beautifully engaged, wants to live his life in a high energy kind of way and that comes out in play. So automatically. We’re thinking about developmental model because we’re talking about play. So, the students were introducing these activities. And I asked them, what is the goal of your activity so when I take over to show you how I would do it, I reach that goal? And the students just wanted him to learn how to play with a game that required holding a tool. It was a magnet tool shaped like a little bird with a long beak. They wanted the child to take this little beak thing and align it with a “worm,” little wooden worms with metal pieces on the end that served as the other part of the magnet, and pull the wooden worms out of a pretend log. It’s a cute little game. So ,there are different colored worms and such and only one little tool of this magnetic beak. So, knowing this child the way that I did, I wanted to make sure that the students were first meeting the needs of his body. Postural readiness, way back to the original episode 101. Before we can play, we have to be able to attend and reach and manipulate the materials. So the first thing I did was help this little guy sit. And then the bird beak was introduced, and he took it and he inverted it so that the beak was in his hand versus exposed and this sort of mallet handle hand was exposed and available. So he chose to bang it on this little plastic wooden log in which these worms are housed or embedded when they’re dropped in just right. So I immediately thought, this is not okay for him to proceed using this tool in this way because the tool in fact is not a hammer. So, at that point the option was to go get a hammer and ball activity. A lot of people have the opportunity to have those little cobblestone sets that you can hammer away or discovery toys makes a lot of bang a ball activities. That’s a common pre-construction activity for his age. Because one wasn’t handy, I had to reshape his experience so that he almost forgot he was banging. I had to manipulate the tool in his hand so that the beak end versus the holding hand was exposed and could approximate the magnet. And as I thought about the best way to do this, I realized I’m going to have to rearrange it in his hand. And that’s going to feel like I’m taking it away. So all this is coming to me instantly as I am deciding how to manage this accidental banging. And I decided to quickly sweep in and rotate the toy in his hand and bring it to a worm that I held in my hand so that he could see how the end of the worm and end of the beak go together.
RICH: And all of this is before associative play. So you’re really building the schema of what this play is going to look like.
LYNETTE: Mhm. That’s right. He’s not even including me as a partner. I am a mechanical partner at this point so he can succeed in this game and learn how to take the worms out without banging. So, the point of the story is: there’s so much that goes into setting a child up to succeed from postural to curbing maybe their original idea for it, but without doing anything to disrupt their initiative. Being careful not to reprimand or correct them. And I said to the students after the fact, so many people would have said “no, no, no, no! No bang!” and it’s natural because you’re trying to get them to stop. But we don’t realize as adults that our power doesn’t come from negation of something or stopping them. it comes from readjusting or reshaping their experience so that you’re actually making contact with the material the way the material is designed to be connected with. So that was a very easy, quick maneuver that I did. And he realized “oh this connect to this worm is cool!” And he still wanted to bang on it every time, but every time I reshaped it so that he only had the experience of the connection between the beak and the worm. At one point he was dangling it and watching the worm kind of move and it was a really good outcome that could’ve been really wrong or not so good for the child so if we didn’t reshape it because he would experience that as a banging activity when there really isn’t anything about it that should be banged. In fact, if you do bang the little worms into the receiving log into the holes, they go down so deep you can’t retrieve them. So, and that’s something we didn’t have to encounter because we shaped it properly. So the social part of all of that is: I would also balance that with me shaping or showing him “my turn.” After a couple times of quickly intercepting his mechanics, I would say “Miss Lynette’s turn” and I would take a worm out and say “yay! I found it!” and bring it to him almost as like an offering or a gift and he would take the worm and explore the worm. So it’s very quick, 2-3 seconds of “my turn” not taking it from him, but bringing it to him after I got it so he knew he was going to get something. The first time I did it, the students noticed, he leaned forward and gasped and was trying to almost take it from me, but I moved so fast and brought it to him, that my second episode of fishing for a worm myself he just sat back and knew that the worm was coming without me saying anything about sitting or waiting, or anything more. I just worked in a fast enough way that his experience was “I’m going to get something out of this” so it’s very refreshing to have that happen so fast.
RICH: Tying this back to information processing…
LYNETTE: The schema that this little guy was able to develop wasn’t a schema reinforced for banging. He already ahs that schema, right? It was a more sophisticated, higher developmental level or higher developmental skill of joining two parts that need to be approximated, which is a very distinct visual-motor task, for the sake of removing something. So it’s almost the opposite of banging. Instead of putting things together he was removing something. And that’s very different, that information processing could’ve gone again, the wrong direction, and he’d be stuck in just a kid that can bang very well and not a kid that can take it to the next level.
RICH: You really just tie in all of these various theories and models that is all part of the SUCCESS approach. You even took it right back to square one when you talk about observing the readiness to learn.
LYNETTE: It is square one. There’s so many squares that come after square one. Now, we’re at the 6th theory. We have 2 more important ones coming up in future podcasts. We’re just following the exact format our training program where all the 7 theories of the SUCCESS Approach are introduced in a linear way. But many of our learners, parents and professionals that are enrolled in our class say that it’s so sequential. They learn best by doing sort of the basics first. So, in developmental model, we talk about having a solid foundation on which to build the house. And that’s what they’ve experienced as learners in the class that the foundation is solid, because you’re talking about neurology, neurodevelopment, readiness, and then all the skills that come from that well-integrated, ready body and brain are all of the other 6 theories that we add to that foundation.
RICH: And I love that you started with the idea this was going to be a developmental model situation. But then looking at what was happening you had to roll it back a couple pieces and start from there, and work our way up.
LYNETTE: And I knew to do that because as I gave this little guy the materials, which some people don’t do. Some people take the materials and show him what to do. I wasn’t interested in showing him. I wanted to see what he was going to do because I wanted to see where he was at. And you’re the king of “you have to know you’re students.” And this is what we do. These are our students, patients, kids, and so, by giving him the tools, literally, I was able to see what tools he needed from me to build the next level up. And he did right before our very eyes. One of the students in her very honest reflection was just shaking her head after with this big grin, and she said, “Dr. Scotese-Wojtila, how did you know exactly what he was going to do? It was so cool that you predicted every single thing he was going to do.” And I take that for granted because I’ve done it and a lot of veterans out there can relate to what I’m talking about, teachers, therapists, whatever, intervention models you follow as a professional. You kind of get used to, ”Yeah, I guess I do that second nature, don’t I?” In the SUCCESS approach, you don’t have to be able to do that well or do it second nature because everything is about the child’s perspective. So, if you’re in their perspective and you know what you want them to do, develop, or learn in your activity, then you almost forsee how to get them there. So of course, you’re predicting because you’re forecasting. You’re eliciting like the SUCCESS Approach acronym says. You’re eliciting that supported sense-making. Eliciting their conceptualization. And that’s why we say we’re always a couple steps ahead of the kid because we have to be for them to land where we want them to land and get that nugget of knowledge.
RICH: And it’s individualized so it’s authentic. It’s true to that person because it is meeting them where they’re at, which is what the SUCCESS approach is all about. We say that a lot in education in terms of differentiation and you look at it and it’s grand scope of how could we possibly differentiate for 30 kids in the room. It just takes a lot of strategic planning, as the SUCCESS Approach brings to it.
LYNETTE: Individualization is where it’s at. And I think that when you don’t have individualization, there are some learners who are lost on certain things or get things processed differently or slower or in a way that isn’t fair to their god-given potential to grasp something because it wasn’t truly, no one was thinking about tailoring the content to them. And that leaves something to be desired in the learning process. It can actually turn kids off to learning. One of the people in my family who is now much older had a learning disability 60 years ago. I remember not having a very good feeling from this individual about school because it was a turn-off. He couldn’t grasp what was being shared. He even went to multiple different schools at the time and he ended up being a very skilled person in the blue collar world, which is great. There’s such an important need for that kind of skill, but it was because he could and would learn through hands-on. And that kind of work tends to lend itself to those kind of learners. That’s where he ended up, and that’s where he should’ve ended up without drama and tears and frustration. That would’ve been a lot easier for him to land there.
RICH: If they would’ve recognized that he learned relatability as opposed to just facts and figures because there’s 2 abstracts.
LYNETTE: That’s why I love the high school level, and you’re so in the trenches of knowing this kind of access for kids. They have things like shop and woodworking and computer work and hands-on stuff. That’s really good for those people who are haptic learners, hands-on learners. And it’s not everybody, but it’s enough that they’re putting programs and have been for years to reach those individuals as well.
RICH: Well that was a wonderful way to synthesize in a very concise manner some of the theories we’ve talking about. As you mentioned, we have 2 more in future episodes so we’ll be right back to sort of wrap up what we heard today.
[music]
RICH: So as we start to address the wrap-up for this episode and this particular synthesis session, we looked at the 3 theories and models of recent. We talked about information processing, social pragmatic, developmental model. Again, I’m going to say this again. What I love about this is how all of these interweave with one another to make a successful plan for someone who needs a little more development in those skills. How would you wrap up this episode for us with these 3 theories?
LYNETTE: So I think what’s really important about information processing is the idea of schema and how everything we do is going to either help a child learn the right schema or the wrong schema. It’s equal opportunity learning. Good and not so good. So we really have to be careful about how we support children to make sense of what’s happening around them. And one of those things is how to interact and socialize. So the social pragmatic learning that comes from schema and experience has to be at their level, at their readiness, so that they can actually have the ping and the pong, the reciprocity of the interaction the way that’s meaningful to them. As they do, they’re naturally going to develop. The developmental notion that we keep talking about that one skill happens first and that skill is acquired in a linear way. Everything builds better. A house is built stronger with a solid foundation. I feel like one of the things that Maria said, Maria Wojtila, in our last episode 109, was her experience with growth. Growth is really the outcome of the SUCCESS approach and I feel that because we’re so interested in children getting better, we want to support that growth and development, but we have to do it in a way that is genuine. You don’t get it out of a book, you get it by knowing your child, understanding the developmental process, which is why in our class developmental theories hits so hard, and all the differences or nuances with how children with autism develop, which is where information processing and schema and socialization come in as well.
RICH: Yeah. It makes it worthwhile for them. Our friend Dawn Kendrick, her favorite words: authentic raw. And getting right back to what’s important to them and how they can relate it to that practice to make it meaningful for them. Just so you know, I love this episode because you gave us a great visualization of all 3 of those theories and models with the 1 example of the student that you were working with so much so that I was visualizing what this toy even looked like. So if you were doing the same thing, we’re going to put a picture of this toy in the show notes because my curiosity has peaked and I want to be able to see what it looks like.
LYNETTE: Yes, and I think down the road we may actually be able to include some videos so you can see some of these things in action.
LYNETTE: We hope that you learned something today to help you on your journey with autism. We’ll share more on our next Connect with S.U.C.C.E.S.S. podcast. Until then, expect SUCCESS!
[outro music]
RICH: The S.U.C.C.E.S.S. Approach is a registered service mark protected under intellectual property law. Unless otherwise specified, all music, audiovisual and proprietary content shared in this podcast is property of AWEtism Productions LLC and it’s sister agency Integrations Treatment Center. Use of this content is unlawful without the expressed written consent of aforementioned agency. For more information about THE S.U.C.C.E.S.S. Approach, Please go to our website at www.thesuccessapproach.org.
We hope that you learned something today to help you on your journey with autism. We’ll share more on our next Connect with S.U.C.C.E.S.S. podcast. Until then, expect SUCCESS!
The S.U.C.C.E.S.S. Approach (SM) is a registered service mark protected under intellectual property law. Unless otherwise specified, all music audio visual and proprietary content shared in this podcast is property of AWEtism Productions, LLC, and its sister agency Integrations Treatment Center (Wickliffe, Ohio). Use of this content is unlawful without the express written consent of the aforementioned agency.
For more information about The S.U.C.C.E.S.S. Approach (SM), please go to our website at www.thesuccessapproach.org.
Want to help your child and your whole family using The SUCCESS Approach? Check out our online course: https://www.thesuccessapproach.org/online-course
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