From the Transsexual Voice to Boys Will Be Boys

Happy New Year! And welcome to another episode of Q4Q. Haley connected with Dan Griffiths from the Gender F*ck podcast to engage with some ads written by and for trans people. In the pages of the magazines, we meet a love kitten, a student of the bizarre, and so many others hoping for a connection. 

Listen to us on Spotify, Stitcher,  Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your tunes!

Interested in being on the show? Contact us at Q4QPodcast@gmail.com or find us on Twitter @Queerpersonals and Instagram @Queerpersonalspodcast.

Check out Dan Griffiths' and Oliver Ellis' podcast Gender F*ck on Spotify and Apple Podcasts, where they discuss sexual health and wellbeing with a focus on the trans experience. You can also find them on Instagram and Twitter @GenderFckPod. 

Music written and strummed by Omar Nassar. Cover art by Bekah Rich. 

Sources

Digital Transgender Archive

Boys Will Be Boys, March 1993. Digital Transgender Archive 

New Trenns Magazine: The Voice of the Transvestite World,  Volume 2, Issue 6. 1971. Digital Transgender Archive

The Transsexual Voice - October 1993. Digital Transgender Archive

The Transvestite World Directory, 1973 - Seattle Washington. Digital Transgender Archive

The San Francisco Bay times, Sep 1989, Vol. 10 No. 12 - Berkeley Library Digital Collections

Secondary Sources

Them, “InQueery: What does the Word Transgender Mean?” September 7, 2018.

Kristen Riley, “From female impersonation to drag” Wellcome Collection, September 24, 2019.

Online Etymology Dictionary, Accessed January 2022. 

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Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

Transcript

00:33.77
queerpersonals
Ah, hello and welcome to q for q the queer personal ads podcast I will be your host Haley I am they them archivist in washington d c and I want to start off by saying that this podcast is not for children. What does that mean. Don't let your child listen to it if you don't want them to hear swear words sexual fantasies kinks or any other stuff that will come out of our mouths. Um, yeah, also just everybody just to subscribe share rate the podcast wherever you listen to it and yeah. With me today I have dan griffiths would you like to introduce yourself.

01:10.32
Daniel Griffiths
Yeah hi I'm Dan My pronouns are he him? Um I would kind of describe myself as like a kind of transsexual functioning and like well-being like psychologist and researcher. But like I'm not technically employed or like in any kind of education right now I'm like. In between my masters and my Ph D but I'm just going to let it slide. That's what I am um and I was basically just kind of like asked to be on this podcast because I recently wrote a dissertation where I was like interviewing Trans people and their experiences using dating apps and like in my introduction and stuff I talked about kind of how I think.

01:47.87
Daniel Griffiths
Personal ads are kind of like the beginning of dating apps and then through technology and like how people have had to like kind of I don't know like improvise and try and figure stuff out is like things got online like how that is basically ah like a dating app is basically like a personal ad and I just think all this stuff is very Interesting. So. And very happy to be here.

02:08.90
queerpersonals
Yes, and thank you for being here and as I was saying before we started recording. Thank you for answering a like reply to 1 of your like two month old tweets talking about your personal ad like experience in your dissertation. Um.


02:27.89
queerpersonals
That was yeah so that's how come we got connected on and on Twitter um, or dan also thought go ahead. What.

02:31.34
Daniel Griffiths
Twitter is like the best like Twitter is just like the best like networking website half the time so and also the worst website ever.

03:18.17
queerpersonals
Anyway, Dan Also co-hosts the genderfuck podcast which is available on spotify and Apple podcasts. Um, so how long have you and Oliver been releasing contents. How would you describe the show where else can they find you.

03:23.99
Daniel Griffiths
Yeah.

03:33.52
Daniel Griffiths
Um, so we've been doing it every fortnight since last September so like 2020 so just a few months we've been doing it. Um, it's basically just like a sex education podcast where we look at like research and stuff and kind of make it more successful for people and I think it's especially important to make it. More accessible for queer people because obviously the way like sex education stands and stuff in school and like online and stuff. It's not very It's either like not like nonexistent or it's not very good quality and it's not based on the research or anything like that. Um, but yeah and we can. You can also find me on. At gender f c k so fuck but without the you because censorship. Um on Twitter and Instagram as well.

04:35.15
queerpersonals
Dan is here to help me choose between all of the eligible batches. But first things first have you ever written or replied to a personal ad yourself that I yeah.

04:45.80
Daniel Griffiths
Can we count dating apps as a personal ad at this point. Okay, because like I've used my fair share of dating apps like that's kind of why I wanted to do a whole dissertation about them because I was like being on dating apps as a Trans person is a nightmare.


Daniel Griffiths
So and like I met my partner on Tamy which is they kind of queer dating app. That's like a bit more wholesome than like grinder. Um and like it's pretty I think it's about like T I a.

05:17.15
queerpersonals
I've not heard of it wait.


05:22.89
Daniel Griffiths
Am I I think I might be getting the first a in the I mixed out but you know I mean um, but I'm just trying to think of like because it's been like a while since I used to dating out I'm trying I think like what I even like wrote on them I do you put something thing because like at my old place I had a balcony so I'd be like.

Want to come like sit on my balcony in like a summer night and like get drunk and watch like cute movies or something like that something gay. Um and then just kind of kind of just like my research interests.

05:58.31
Daniel Griffiths
Kind of interesting things about me I think like those are kind of things that I like to look for in kind of dating app or like parcel ads and stuff like that where it's like I want to know what you do, but I also want to know like cute little ted bits and little funny stuff too. But.

No I just was going to say I've never I don't even enough I've ever seen like a personal ad like in a newspaper anything I don't know how popular is in like the U K I Also don't really read like physical newspapers or think very often so that might also be why.

06:30.39
queerpersonals
Yeah.

06:34.59
Daniel Griffiths
But I just think it's like a really interesting kind of way to like try and meet people.

07:13.43
queerpersonals
I Mean they do a lot of it focuses on like so like the visual of like a picture and image. So yeah I've only really seen personal ads like I don't know how popular craigslist is in the U K or um I mean there's lex. But I think I'm not even sure if that's.

07:32.68
queerpersonals
I Think that might be international at this point and those things are more text based but like I don't know like I do feel like it's kind of dying out as ah, it switches into um you know, regular dating apps but I don't know.

07:45.36
Daniel Griffiths
Yeah I do think it's that interestinging though.

07:50.79
queerpersonals
Yeah, and yeah and how like I don't know it's yeah I don't know the the the fact that like it it is easier easier to like. Maybe like connect with other queer people through apps like Network. Ah, even if it's not a simply romantic thing is still happening on apps rather than like in the personal lives like because like we see it today. Ah trans.

08:19.32
Daniel Griffiths
Yeah, yeah.

08:22.20
queerpersonals
Like there are a lot of Trans people who are connecting with people not even necessarily in like a romantic way. A.

08:26.64
Daniel Griffiths
Yeah, that was like a really big thing in my dissertation where a lot of people they were just that like I use dating apps primarily to find queer friends and stuff like in my city because half the time they're like. Is either unaccessible for them to go to stuff like queer bars or something like that or they don't really want to go out to a bar where it's like really loud and like overwhelming and half the time there's not really very many other avenues like that and it's like you're a student and you have like a society or like a group or something like that you can go to So I Do think it's like really interesting. How.


09:01.30
Daniel Griffiths
Dating apps and stuff I use like a lot by queer people just to like make some pals and stuff because I've definitely done that.


09:24.32
queerpersonals
Um, so the theme for this episode centers around transness in personal ads from the nineteen seventy s eighty s ninety s in North america. Um, so yes, Canada is represented here just a little. Um, unfortunately I didn't find any in the u k but that's just because I didn't have the time. Um, so also australia is an australian 1 I think um, anyway before truly beginning. It's important that we address the etymology and.

09:46.76
Daniel Griffiths
Um, yeah.

10:01.78
queerpersonals
Terminology used during these time periods to refer to trans people both by others but also by themselves and in newspapers. Um, so obviously these terms meant different things to each 1 of our posters and since we all have different relationships to gender in. Etc. Um, so I was thinking I don't I I was will will read the ads how they are written obviously but then I was going to I prefer to use just trans when speaking about people otherwise but I'm not like sure where you fall in with like that kind of. Like I don't know I but I was like thinking like should we just be like oh this like transsexual person or just trans or whatnot but I wanted to hear your thoughts on that.

10:48.23
Daniel Griffiths
Yeah, I'm not sure because I obviously transsexual and stuff isn't a word that I would use personally myself to describe myself. But then it's also like that word for especially people back then that could have had like quite a lot of meaning for that person.


11:07.74
Daniel Griffiths
And kind of how they conceptualize their gender and their transition and stuff like that. So I don't know thing like I was having a think about it when I was like looking at the script yesterday and I was like because I think it is still important to be respectful about how these people conceptualize their gender and love.


Language that they liked to use like as long as we're being mindful that obviously like they're kind of outdated terms. It's not the kind of terms that you should be using for Trans people like nowadays unless they explicitly like kind of say that they want to be used like have those terms used for them. Um.

11:42.72
queerpersonals
Ah.

11:45.59
Daniel Griffiths
But yeah I think just being like mindful about it and being like yeah I think just like that's probably the best way to do it I think.

11:50.71
queerpersonals
Yeah, yeah was I I tend to agree. Yeah so I was because I know like personally like I I mean trant something like transvesite was used as like a very medicalized term but a lot of people use it in these ads but like.

I don't know and just want to yeah, be respectful of like what they identified as any who I guess we'll get into it. Um, so I took a lot of my definitions in history from this 2018 them article just because I didn't want to you know.

12:14.72
Daniel Griffiths
Yeah.

12:28.94
queerpersonals
Jump into a ton of like the historiography right? off the bat. But anyway so in Inquiry. Ah the article is called inquiry what does the word transgender mean. Um, so it's tv show pose actress angelica ross breaks down the definitions in their history in like a very bite-sized way. Um. And so it kind of stems a lot of it stems out of medical professionals um trying to separate people into various groups. You also mentioned um ah Herrssh hishfield hersh and yeah hirschfeld. Yeah yeah.

12:55.83
Daniel Griffiths
Oh yeah, that was the yeah the guy who ran the institute for sexual research in Berlin has like the german name but I'm awful at's speaking in foreign languages I'm not even going to try? Um, but.


13:15.22
Daniel Griffiths
He had like a german term where I was like transsexual is Mus or something like that and then like in like around the nineteen fifty s it was coined to transsexual as like a more english version. Yeah.


13:26.77
queerpersonals
And I feel like transvest site has also been used more and by medical professionals to separate as well. But anyway so this is very broadly put I want to put that out there but we could do an entire episode just on the history of Trans like.


13:45.71
queerpersonals
Terminology and even scratch the surface on that and these are also like definitions based on the western like understanding of gender. Um, because that's where these ads are kind of centered at so transsexual or they hang on. Oh I mixed these up t sss ah so seem to be used as a synonym for transgender since the nineteen fifty s ish um and also it seems like it was typically referenced to a person seeking to transition through surgery or hormones. Ah.


14:24.28
queerpersonals
And so I also wanted to like they this article specifically ah cited that there was a nineteen seventy four transfestive and transsexual conference at the university of leeds which is 1 of the earliest conferences with literature on trans health I think in like mainstream like medical care. Um. And started making the distinctions between each term. Um, so then trans westite which is also tvs and these ads so people who dress as the opposite gender. Um, and then transgender people who did transition but did not undergo surgery. Obviously once again, these things are. Mean different things so that like yeah, don't know it. It doesn't take them with a grain of Salt. Um, and then.

15:02.71
Daniel Griffiths
Um, yeah. I mean also just like using just the term Trans is a pretty good way to just say capsulate everyone and there's I think because obviously each of these words just starts with Trans so could be an easy way to get around this issue.

15:18.11
queerpersonals
Yeah, right? and then and that kind of started to come up like around the nineteen ninety s is what 1 of like this article and has also said.

15:28.57
Daniel Griffiths
Um.

15:34.10
queerpersonals
Like as like an umbrella termed adopted by a lot of people in the community. Um including like non-binary people but we don't really have that like as a distinction in these ads today. Um, and then we also see the term female impersonator. Um, and so I took this definition from the history of the welcome with 2 l's collection a free museum and library that aims to challenge how we all think and feel about health in their blog posts from female impersonation to drag written in 2019? Um, female impersonator was like the historical. Histrosity of the term was in like theatrical performance. Um, but was also using as accessible route to the allowed allowed trans performers to construct an identity that society considered unacceptable to the guise of acceptable fiction I e. Society can enjoy the performance as long as it's seen as comedy and can be secure in the fact that it is just a cis man underneath the costume. Um the last term that is in this then the the the last term that I've been in these ads is ac dc. Um, which I thought was really fun because it's slang for bisexual and I had not heard that before um and so I got this definition from Dictionary dot com. Ah, the etymology online website traces this turn back to nineteen fifty nine but orally back to like around the nineteen forty s with the notion of being working both ways like the electric current. Um wow.

17:05.68
Daniel Griffiths
I Think that's just fun way to like describe Bisexuality is like Ac Dc think that's really funny I Love that? Yeah yeah, literally.

17:11.70
queerpersonals
Yeah, it just it sounds metal just because of the band in general too. So like yeah like I'm in Cdc I go both ways. Okay, so now that we've got the glossary set in place.

17:23.67
Daniel Griffiths
So good.

17:29.72
queerpersonals
We're gonna go into like the the publications now and then eventually we'll get to the ads but let me do my disclaimer as well. The views expressed in these personal ads are not my own and may not be dance some of these ads are from eras very different ideas of race.

17:47.48
queerpersonals
Body is what it means to be part of the lgbtq community and while I do not take these things lightly and will do my best to address them as they see them I'm also here to share the thirsty pinoneing and sometimes ridiculous Queer Queer Lonely hearts set out into the world. Okay, sorry I says a lot of talking I've. Feel free to jump in while we want to? um, ah so I'm odd here. Oh So I found many of these ads in newspapers devoted to Trans life and news.

18:07.67
Daniel Griffiths
Now I'm totally happy just to be hit and just chilling.

18:20.87
queerpersonals
Um, issues from around nineteen seventy 1981 nine nineteen ninety 3 these publications include the australian but I I use that publication a lot I need to find some new synonyms. So these publications include the australian ah publication. Boys will be boys. The new trends magazine published by empathy press in Seattle washington the san francisco bay times transsexual voice in the transvestite world directory also published by empathy press in seattle.


18:55.33
queerpersonals
Um, but that 1 was mailed internationally and had a lot of international ads in it. Um, many of these were devoted specifically to the trans community or even within like the lesbian and gay newspapers around the United states. Um, others are in reference to people transitioning from male to female or sometimes not transitioning they just enjoy the way the feminine clothes feel perhaps sexually perhaps not um and I only really found a handful of ah ftm trans ads mostly in the boys will be boys publication. Um. And which this paper was more devoted to news and editorials. Um than it was kind of controlled by this 1 like ah ftm person or f 2 m is how they listed themselves Jasper um, and then it's.

19:46.41
queerpersonals
A lot of this stuff is online at the digital transgender archives. It's hosted by Northeastern university in Boston massachusetts and I'll include the specific links in the show notes. Okay so other questions we going be asking yourselves along in the way. Um, who would you write to. Swipe left or swipe right? And why? um, best match. Are there ads that we think would go great together. Um, and also like the more like academic question of like how does each paper affect the tone of the ad. Um. And we're also going to do this by publications this time usually I just kind of shove a ton of different random things in there and I'm like this is 1 because this is a theme that like starts us out for really strong and then like usually we end also strong I don't know but these are all just like all of them are. Incredible in their own ways. Obviously all of that is true for everyone. But um, we're gonna go by publication this time which is new for how my structure is and I think I'm kind of gonna like it. But anyway oh sorry. Ah so. Boys will be boys is what we're going to start off with first. It was a monthly newsletter published in Melbourne australia ah first published in February ninety ninety 3 by a trans man named Jasper um, and he talked about his life as an f 2 m female 2 male. Ah, reviewed other queer newspapers in their coverage of transnesss and covered other various news items and cultural touch points. So this collection was hosted by the digital transgender archives. Um and that was launched in January sixteen. Um, so this was much more of a newsletter didn't accept personal ads. As much. It just seems like it was largely put out by this single person Jasper but they did accept and print a lot of letters to the editor I e Jasper so that's why we're looking at like this 1 right now from the march nineteen ninety 3 issue would you like to read this.

21:53.17
Daniel Griffiths
I can do I Also just like really like the name of it being boys will be boys I think it's really cute I know what something about it I'm like that's adorable. Um.

21:57.51
queerpersonals
Yep.

22:02.20
queerpersonals
Yeah, no I like it because it's only such a gross phrase and they just took it and made it their own.

22:10.27
Daniel Griffiths
Yeah I just feel like whenever it's in reference to like gay Trans men I'm just like it's pretty cute and just think it's so cute when it's used in like a sweet little way like that.

22:25.43
queerpersonals
Yeah, no I I agree Yes, please.

22:28.56
Daniel Griffiths
Um, should I read this now. Okay, so they say dear boys will be boys I am an ftm slash t s of color I am a latino indian slash west indian. I am also gay I have been searching high and low for other fdm such tses who are the tio met maori I can never say that right? Um Pacific islander african caribbean middle eastern asian native american etc and who also identify as gay or bisexual men finding a gay.

22:53.70
queerpersonals
That's him.

23:02.60
Daniel Griffiths
Ah, female to gay male transsexual who's latino or Maori is a real pain in the neck if there's any ftm such t s gay men of color in australia um, tell to get in touch with me, please be discreet with the envelope. Thanks and I don't know how to say the names like J.

23:20.30
queerpersonals
J Ucano I don't I don't know either and I should have looked that up. But.

23:23.64
Daniel Griffiths
I Think so.

23:30.64
queerpersonals
There are zero matches for my search. Okay so I'm gonna say yeah okcano um, yeah.

23:38.37
Daniel Griffiths
That sounds right I think this 1 was really sweet I like this 1 I would swipe right on them I always get so confused with like which way it is I'm pretty sure it's right if you would like say yeah I mean I would.

23:50.60
queerpersonals
Yeah, and put a church right to So ah.

23:57.29
Daniel Griffiths
If I was a person of color though because I am not so I'm not what they're looking for unfortunately but they sound very sweet.

24:02.25
queerpersonals
Yes I agree I think um yeah, it would I think this is interesting and like ah like a ah few different ways. Um, mostly because it was like the the speaking of the extreme confidentiality.

24:20.13
Daniel Griffiths
The.

24:22.23
queerpersonals
Required at this time even in San francisco where this person lives is like that kind of like heralded is like a queer haven. Um, and yeah I don't know what what is? Um, what are what are your thoughts. Other than you love it.

24:42.41
Daniel Griffiths
I Love him. Um I think I liked how it it kind of already does speed to that kind of like intersection between like people's marginalized like identities and stuff like that and how obviously this was like pre. The internet being like super accessible and stuff like that and like how difficult it would be to find people that you can kind of relate to in that way because like as it's I guess not as much now. But like when I was like doing all my research my dis and stuff like I was just finding that like everything was like f straight like. People like they could just kind of like find partners through like their friends and their family like their work connections and stuff like that. But that's completely inaccessible to people especially because like this person's really talking about being Discreet. So I don't know how. Kind of out they were like how comfortable they were with people knowing that they were like like engaging in like kind of queer relationships and stuff like that. So It just kind of I think it does really factor in that kind of like loneliness that kind of came with it which.

25:42.50
queerpersonals
The 1

25:51.45
Daniel Griffiths
Ah, was why I think personal ads and dating apps have been so important for Queer communities and stuff because they are like quite a good way to bring these people together. But yeah.

25:59.92
queerpersonals
Yeah, and not just that like I mean as you're speaking about the intersectionality of it like maybe they have found like Trans people in these spaces but not any like they it sounds like it.

26:14.35
Daniel Griffiths
Yeah.

26:18.39
queerpersonals
Ah, we mostly white people and like that's probably lonely in itself. Ah.

26:23.41
Daniel Griffiths
Yeah, and they might like people who aren't people of color. They might not have the same kind of like cultural understanding of transness and gender identity that this person's kind of cultures and stuff like that might have.

26:39.36
queerpersonals
Yeah, um.

26:40.84
Daniel Griffiths
So then they'd have to be kind of spending a lot I'd imagine they'd be spending a lot of time trying to like educate people on how they interpret gender and stuff like that which would be quite exhausting I think because they were saying how like trying to find someone who is like the same things as them is a pain in neck. So.

26:57.25
queerpersonals
Um, yeah.

27:00.50
Daniel Griffiths
I Can't imagine how like I have to deal with like explaining this stuff to like says people and even that's exhausting but like trying to factor in like the whole like cultural aspect of it seems even more exhausting on top of that. So I do really feel for this person.

27:11.89
queerpersonals
Right? Yeah and ah see this was published in March nineteen ninety 3 so there's probably likely still out there. Hopefully they found what they were looking for. Um, yeah.


27:31.60
queerpersonals
I guess I could say if you wanted to get in touch with this man, you could send on to your letter in an old ah envelope placed inside of a second envelope plus 2 45 cent postage stamps and Jasper would follow it on or would publish it forward it on. But alas I don't know if Jasper is still in the same spot either. So or but yeah, this is yeah but I hope I do hope that they they were.

27:49.86
Daniel Griffiths
Yeah.

28:02.29
queerpersonals
They found the the community they were looking for through publishing this um this ad I guess this letter to the editor. Um, so we're going to move on to the new trends ah magazine. Voice of the transvestite world. Um, and this is also hosted by the digital transgender archive which once again is it was hosted by Northeastern university in Boston but it appears in the dosive a lab. Libidi collection which is at the university of Michigan so this is part of like a coalition of institutions for this database. This magazine ran during the nineteen seventy s and was published in Seattle but these ads come from a nineteen seventy 1 issue. Because it's the only 1 I could find online for some reason. Um, so this issue talks about hormone therapy for trans women the drag scene in opinion pieces about transsexualism. It also features personal ads at the back to place an ad in this Magazine. You had to be 21 years of age pay 3 dollars for a forty word listing 1 time or you could print four times for eight dollars which just kind of sounds like a deal. Um, they yeah well they do not print names and issue each person a code number so that it identified. The identities remain anonymous until you decide to reveal them. It also says ladies listed free. So maybe you don't really actually have to pay. Um, so or maybe I don't know how they're defining ladies. Ah they also cooperate with.

29:46.46
Daniel Griffiths
True I guess if it's a sorry I just say I guess like if it's a trans specificific 1 they would probably be counting like trans women as women at hope.

29:58.99
queerpersonals
I I would hope so but I when I was looking through these ads a lot of people would say and we'll see this. Um, they'd be like Canada male california male and then like talk about how they're like trans in some way and so I was like.

30:12.70
Daniel Griffiths
Yeah.

30:18.97
queerpersonals
Okay, but like but they are off there. It's very clear that they're talking about like ah male to female transition like um anyway, but so this magazine specifically says that they cooperate with the post office 100 percent

30:25.20
Daniel Griffiths
Um, yeah.

30:38.90
queerpersonals
So the mailing of Obscene material is against the the law and so they will like if they find it I guess they they they're just not claiming any you if you decide to do it. Um, so they say Court Bond in a responsible manner. Um.

30:47.83
Daniel Griffiths
Are.

30:53.71
queerpersonals
And all of these are from nineteen seventy 1 volume 2 issue 6 and I would you like to read this 1 I can read this 1 Whatever you feel I know I've talked a lot so I want to give you an opportunity to show voice.

31:07.70
Daniel Griffiths
We could take it in times to read them if you'd like.

31:12.25
queerpersonals
Ah, yeah, um, okay I'll just do this 1 Ah california mail san diego area 35 slim handsome professional generous sincere discreet recently divorce ac dc.

31:16.87
Daniel Griffiths
Are in.

31:29.43
Daniel Griffiths
Are.

31:31.31
queerpersonals
Bisexual I that the bisexual I added in um I am too masculine to succeed as a tv unfortunately but desire to help more feminine tv either as her study or as her occasional escorch and then it list the box Number. So what are your first thoughts.

31:51.15
Daniel Griffiths
I Think they seem quite sweet like I do feel kind of bad for them because I guess in my mind the way that I'm reading it like this might be from my own like kind of personal interpretations of Trans people. They might not have had this kind of like conceptualization of their gender. Whatever. But it just feels like to me that they have like some kind of gender Dysphoria but they feel like because of maybe like a safety concern or something like that like social expectations in 1971 that they feel like they couldn't do that. But then it's quite nice that they're not like. Being really weird and bitter about it and like you know how are some people are they like they just want to like ted down other people because they have like unresolved like gender Dysphoria or something like that a K a like toughs in my mind but you know there's a whole other thing. Um, but it's nice that he's just that like I want to help you out.

32:37.85
queerpersonals
Um, was man law.

32:46.28
Daniel Griffiths
Like I think it's quite sweet.

32:47.70
queerpersonals
Yeah, like I what ah and I what I've been reading this as as well is like since they appear more masculine and they want to be going steady with them that they're like I will fulfill this like head. Heteroormative like we can go out together and it won't like be flagged by cis the cis straight community or whatever. But um, also I just realized recently divorced this.

33:14.26
Daniel Griffiths
Yeah.

33:25.70
Daniel Griffiths
I.

33:25.80
queerpersonals
Poor person just feels all but I don't know.

33:32.50
Daniel Griffiths
Whenever I read these like because I know these are they're only like forty words or something aren't they I'm always just that like I want to know so much more about like what your situation is like I'm like are you recently divorced because of something like unrelated to your sexuality and gender identity or.

33:36.76
queerpersonals
Yeah.

33:49.90
Daniel Griffiths
Is it related to those things like I don't think I don't know if those be very good to put in a personal ad when you're trying to like get a date or something for just from like I'm just genuinely very curious about like what kind of situations these people were in I wish I could know but I don't know who you are California male. So I can't find out.

33:51.30
queerpersonals
Um, yeah.

34:03.92
queerpersonals
Yeah, it's so taizing being tantalizing about the personal ads is you only get these both fits and then but now I I'm gonna.

34:09.67
Daniel Griffiths
I know.

34:19.80
queerpersonals
A tangent of like my last episode with my housemate and like reading this 1 lesbians like it was like 1 ah hundred and 35 words and half of them were like describing her ex her relationship with her ex and like. Being like I'm not looking for sympathy but I want a partner that understands the ups and downs of the relationship and like it was.. It's so chaotic but it was I mean I live for it. Um.

34:42.70
Daniel Griffiths
My god.

34:51.96
Daniel Griffiths
I Love to live vicarously through these people's chaos.

34:54.28
queerpersonals
And my girlfriend now I know like it's like these little snippets of drama that are just just yeah and sometimes like something like the ads like this you can't really look people up because they were so specific in their confidentiality which is a good thing.

35:01.84
Daniel Griffiths
Um.

35:13.51
queerpersonals
But now I was I've been like if they're they've offered an address I've been looking up people on the internet and yeah, my girlfriend is like he you can't dox people from 20 years ago or find the docks people I just want to know where they're at like ah.

35:28.57
Daniel Griffiths
They probably don't even live there anymore. So.

35:33.33
queerpersonals
Yeah, a lot of people have moved to Florida which is funny. Yeah, or I don't know I don't know snowbirds I guess all right? So this next 1 is also from um.

35:36.97
Daniel Griffiths
That's so random I don't know why Florida but.

35:50.35
queerpersonals
The new trends magazine in nineteen seventy 1 and I'll let you go ahead and read it.

35:54.88
Daniel Griffiths
Okay, Canada Nova Scota I Think that's say say that ah male just a lonely country lad interested in cross-dressing Tv Isism and Dis and discipline would like to hear from other quote unquote girls male or feme in the U S or Canada. We'll try to answer all letters have no way to travel letters are great pastime I Love love like Lonely country lad I Think that's really endeaing I don't know why.

36:26.79
queerpersonals
Well just the lonely country lad and I think in this part of Canada I'm not sure now I don't know I'm just going to scratch that phrase sentence out of my mind. Um because I wouldn't have ah an ending to it. Ah no I think.

36:30.23
Daniel Griffiths
Only countryside.

36:46.58
queerpersonals
That's an incredible I want to you like use that on like my Twitter bio just a lonely country lad but I live in the city now. So I guess it doesn't work. Um, yeah.

36:52.69
Daniel Griffiths
I Guess I could do that because now I'm back in the countryside for a bit. Well I'm in between stuff so I can be like I know in the country lad now.

37:01.35
queerpersonals
Yeah, send Letters. Oh No and I love the? Um, what is he like just like wanting to hear from all the all the gals like doesn't matter or I just want to like. Want to talk tell me I can't travel to you but ah, this is good. But.

37:25.96
Daniel Griffiths
Yeah I think like just like having all the letters seems like a already just like cute little past time to have just like get to know like random other people like I'm hoping like people who responded to these ads were like nice and respectful and like genuine. But I don't know.

37:41.48
queerpersonals
Um I would I mean I would assume you're paying for the postage. Maybe you just Ace I don't know but people do weird shit. Ah I would I mean it's also like an incredible way to network if.

37:45.79
Daniel Griffiths
Yeah I hope so.


37:58.44
queerpersonals
I Don't know if this person is looking to escape their lonely country or if they're just looking for for fun. But um I don't know there's potential to like someone to pay your way out of the country if that's something that they were wanting. Um.

38:11.54
Daniel Griffiths
Um, yeah.

38:17.20
queerpersonals
But yeah, um, would you swipe right or left.

38:21.56
Daniel Griffiths
Um, I'd probably have to swipe left is the reject 1 isn't it I think on like yeah did a whole dissertation while dating out saying fucking know any of this? Um, but.

38:30.37
queerpersonals
The left is there? yeah.

38:39.56
queerpersonals
That's fine I Not gonna call you up.

38:41.31
Daniel Griffiths
That's mostly yeah I think it's mostly just because they put on a thing that they're into like discipline and I can't do that because I am a sub so you know.

38:49.26
queerpersonals
I mean I mean same I would probably still write them a letter though I think because yeah, right I'm not going to like sex to you through a letter but all. Ah.

38:56.39
Daniel Griffiths
Be like let's be pals but I'm not doing anything else. Um, that would be so like other like.

39:08.72
queerpersonals
I'll I'll chat with you.

39:13.51
Daniel Griffiths
Records of people like sexting and stuff through letters. This is completely unrelated but I just think that would be so interesting to look at.

39:16.59
queerpersonals
When I'm not sure well I know that a lot of people burned their letters after so we wouldn't know but we know that the gentleman Jack the woman. Um Anne what's her name.

39:26.12
Daniel Griffiths
Um, ah.

39:35.77
queerpersonals
She's from somewhere in England I know that from like the eighteen hundreds and she wrote all of her like diaries and letters and code and then no 1 found them or like burned them because they weren't like thinking about it at the time or they were like lost in the library of her home. And then someone cracked the code and it's all like this sexual shit and like just her talking like all the gals that she's in love with or whatever and also she like grant her father's household. But there's there's a there's a series a tv series somewhere out there about her. So if you're into that.

39:59.14
Daniel Griffiths
Oh my God I Love that.

40:09.54
Daniel Griffiths
That's so interesting. Yeah maybe I should watch style something. Yeah.

40:11.80
queerpersonals
Yeah, ah and so yeah I got it. It might be in C you anyway Anyway, tangents tangents. Um, ah what was I gonna say I don't know if I was gonna say anything else I Yeah incredible, good things.

40:19.56
Daniel Griffiths
Yeah.

40:31.77
queerpersonals
We'll move on to the transsexual voice october ninety ninety 3 which is also on the digital transgender archive in the joseph a labidi collection at the university of Michigan this. Newsletter edit was edited and published by phoebe smith at least between 1980 five and ninety ninety five um that's what I could find on the site digitized and the paper didn't have well it had a connection section and the rules. Of which were it was used to locate people other than for personal relationships which I mean everything is a personal relationship but whatever such as roommates big sister, big brother jobs wanted etc. Also if you would like to be a big sister brother I'm going to find a better word for this 1 she hasn't. Like parent is this is the place to offer your friendship you if you are in a position to hire a transsexual post-op or pre-op ah please please let it be known so that's from the october ninety ninety 3 but I think that was just in all of them. And then we have another ad here. Um, and so it's I would like to correspond with spouses of transsexuals present or former. Especially those who have or have had positive relationships. Also I would like to hear from transsexuals themselves who have positive relationships with their spouses or former spouses I would like to share experiences and relate to common milestones I am very interested in knowing if there are any other transsexuals out there who are trying to live in their biological roles having made for whatever reason. Ah, parentheses too. Expensive fear of the radical surgery etc close parentheses decision not to pursue the accepted treatment of hormone therapy and surgery reply to m e ah, and then there's a percentage side tsv so I'm not sure what that means. But. Um, I'm assuming it's something like a like 1 of the boxes. Um, so I will invite you to share your thoughts It's a very long 1 in it.

42:37.40
Daniel Griffiths
Yeah.

42:44.17
Daniel Griffiths
This is another 1 where yeah this is like another 1 where it was like I want to know so much more about this person's situation because I was like is this a person who is like in a relationship currently and is like experiencing dysphoria but trying to like.

42:59.54
queerpersonals
The.

43:03.69
Daniel Griffiths
Figure out how to like maintain that relationship and kind of how to deal with that dyorented stuff but that I'm like also are they like I don't know like is that partner like kind of making them not transition and stuff like I know that they give the reason like. Expensive or like fear of the surgery and stuff. But I'm like is it a situation where it's like a typically like catch sexual relationship and then like the person doesn't want them to um transition because they don't like they're not attracted to women or something like that like I wish I could know so much more about that dynamic.

43:32.10
queerpersonals
Yeah.

43:42.62
Daniel Griffiths
But I think it's like already interesting ad because it's just like I don't know that's like looking for advice and it's quite nice for them to be like looking for like people talking about like their positive relationships and stuff and like letting it know that like that stuff can like work out and like be. Totally happy because I goes against that kind of like narrative where it's like if someone transitions or something or like they have Dysphoria then the whole relationship is doomed which obviously like isn't always the case.

44:09.97
queerpersonals
Yeah, no I I have these same desires to I Just want to know like how many responses they got or if they got responses like I just want to like hear about these different like positive relationships that like.

44:29.77
queerpersonals
Could have been possibly sent Harris and like hopefully like I mean once again, this is in 1990 3 So like maybe they save the letters Maybe like they're out here like live in life and like I don't know Like. Found So So many like good like connections with people because of this ad um also I What go ahead? Oh I Well I the.


45:06.30
queerpersonals
You you read it as like the person in the Ad is the the Trans person and I was like what if I was thinking about like what if this was the spouse I don't know if the spouse would have written into this but I was like it could have it kind of felt like it could have been like a joint thing maybe too I don't know.

45:15.55
Daniel Griffiths
Um, a.

45:25.89
queerpersonals
And so I was trying to think about how that would have influenced. Let's add. Um.

45:28.58
Daniel Griffiths
Um, I Just like I wish I could just know like how everything turned out in the end I'm like did this person end up like. Having hormone therapy and surgery and stuff or did they choose not to do that in the end did this couple stay together in the end like if they didn't say together like what kind of relationships did they get into after like I'm so interested but I will never know I don't know who this person is.

45:46.93
queerpersonals
Um, yeah.

45:52.79
queerpersonals
Yeah, you know I'll never know unless somehow they donate their records to an archive and the archive. It's enough money to digitize it and.

46:03.70
Daniel Griffiths
Um, yeah.

46:10.37
queerpersonals
They were comfortable with it being online and I don't know that's just my little archives heart wishing for for closure. But um, yeah, and I'm just thinking like yeah the fear of like.

46:19.33
Daniel Griffiths
Yeah.

46:30.19
queerpersonals
Surgery I don't know like what surgery was like at this time like if they would have had to go through like if they were going through like um, what is it like professional medical personnel or.

46:34.32
Daniel Griffiths
A.

46:46.60
queerpersonals
It's like sponsored by like a psychiatrist or something or if it's like the stuff that like I feel like thinking specifically about 1 of the Trans women who appears on Dragula a bitter budty like she like literally got it at like a like a hotel. Like someone was later arrested because they accidentally killed a woman um during these kinds of things and like that's I can see how that would be like so scary but like wanting it like so badly that you're willing to to put your life at risk Anyway, as just I don't know.


47:44.63
queerpersonals
 Um, okay, so this move on to the Transvesite world directory. From seattle washington um, as you can tell by the the world. Directory it is an international publication and it is published once a year um it is ah. It's like a once a year published edition of the Transvesite magazine. Um, so this had a print run between nineteen sixty nine and nineteen seventy 3 this issue is from 19 seventy 3 so I guess the last 1 um, also in the joseph alabidi collection. Um.

48:31.91
Daniel Griffiths
Um, and.

48:39.29
queerpersonals
It cost five dollars to buy the directory I can't find if it costs supposed an ad but it does charge to forward the letters fifty percent or 50 cents per letter or a 2 dollars minimum Usd. Um. Once again, their sister publication is the new Trends magazine and so you couldn't send nudes explicit language and they cooperated with the post office department. But interestingly this directory allows for people to submit pictures with their ad which is a whole new element that like I. Typically doesn't happen and also like for it to be in like a Trans magazine seems like it's just so much more interesting like you get to like share like your like what you look like I guess it's just that seems very Intimidating. Um, but.

49:30.28
Daniel Griffiths
Yeah.

49:34.27
queerpersonals
And I don't think I didn't include any of the images any of the ads that had images with them in here for you. But it's like just you know people hanging out posen living their best lives. It reminds me of very like 1990 s like what is it?? um. Like myspace photos of like people doing like mirror picks or something which is fun. Um, yeah, yeah, that was a fun moment of time New. Um.

49:56.76
Daniel Griffiths
So cute I Really like that element.

50:04.59
Daniel Griffiths
Um.

50:10.13
queerpersonals
Would you like to read this ad.

50:10.63
Daniel Griffiths
Yeah, ah louisiana baton rouge in parentheses mail hi my name is Laurie. What's yours. Would love to hear from all who share my interest in being very feminine and attractive female impersonator with a sex scene shapely figure due to hormone therapy first talk caucasian prompt and courteous answer to all correspondent sincerely laurie and then its box e c. Ah, dash Eighty 6.

50:40.86
queerpersonals
Yeah I Really like this ad um, it's cute. It has a lot of personality. Um, and it like directly speaks to the reader rather than like jumping out into the list which um, a lot of.

50:43.56
Daniel Griffiths
Yeah.

50:58.91
queerpersonals
The ads in this magazine kind of did like in a lot of like personalized in general just like list. But it's like hello like I'm extending my hand out of this newspaper for you to shake I Want to ask you about like yourself. Um.

51:07.32
Daniel Griffiths
Can.

51:16.73
queerpersonals
But here is my my interest is I'm like ah like a hyper femme like I I love it. Um.

51:23.74
Daniel Griffiths
Yeah I think it's like pretty cute because it makes it definitely feel a lot more like in fighting and stuff because it seems like they actually want to like get to know me as well instead of just kind of like listing stuff and be like do you like me and it doesn't really matter if like they like me back or something like that like.

51:33.13
queerpersonals
Ah.

51:41.99
queerpersonals
Or I.

51:43.61
Daniel Griffiths
I Quite like that kind of very it feels quite like conversational even though it's literally just like a description on a newspaper. It feels like I'm having a conversation with them.

51:51.39
queerpersonals
Right? Yeah and it's not just like it's not yeah well what like you just said. It's not just a list. Um I wanted to what is it. They I thought this was an interesting. Ah.

51:58.87
Daniel Griffiths
A.

52:11.35
queerpersonals
Qualify or they're like I identify as a female impersonator and I also do hormone therapy and like I think that that like really imeshes like how not rigid any term is I think as like I mean as queer people like we.

52:23.68
Daniel Griffiths
A.

52:31.30
queerpersonals
Get that like we know that like not terms are are fluid and so is gender and so is whatever but I don't know it's just I want to hammer it in more um and then the versatile Caucasian was just I liked that as like a descriptive.

52:39.76
Daniel Griffiths
Down.

52:50.35
queerpersonals
Like it just it jumped out to me immediately. Um.

52:52.11
Daniel Griffiths
Yeah, like I feel like they're probably just being like I'm like a versatile like sexually and I'm also Caucasian but it just kind of seems like that just like sometimes I'm Caucasian and sometimes I'm not and I'm like it's such a weird way to write that.

53:06.79
queerpersonals
I know? Yeah yeah I Well that's why that's what like specifically like I was like oh shit and like because I've seen other people would be like Caucasian Comma versatile or versatile Comma Caucasian but like the just the you.

53:21.78
Daniel Griffiths
Um, yeah.

53:25.99
queerpersonals
Taking out of that com I'll really like it change is what it means but I'm like what you like I'm sure that like that's what it like you're right? It's that they're versatile. Um, anyway I Love you Laurie ziana.

53:35.78
Daniel Griffiths
Yeah, who knows I'm not laurie. Yeah I will swipe bright on you Laurie Love you.

53:43.35
queerpersonals
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I will also swipe right? She sounds incredible. Um, next 1 so this is new york male negro five five 1 fifty it desires to be made a woman. Have no clothing now completely straight. Love all feminine clothing and then in parentheses is an editor's note and this says this person is a wonderful sincere tv who is a delight to know write her today if you like sincere people and i. Really liked this 1 just like I mean all of it like there's so many different like parts of it that I enjoyed but like I love that the editors note is like you got like the like a sign saled approval from the editor of the magazine.

54:20.95
Daniel Griffiths
And.

54:36.56
queerpersonals
And just makes me feel like this person might have been like shy and just needed like I don't know maybe they're like they might need just like a little extra umph I don't know but what are your thoughts.

54:38.44
Daniel Griffiths
A.

54:46.33
Daniel Griffiths
Yeah, because I felt like maybe like the editor like saw their thing was like you're not like expressing how good you are or something like that because the thing is like very just like desires to be a woman has no clothing completely straight.

54:56.17
queerpersonals
Um, yeah.

55:02.64
Daniel Griffiths
So think it's quite nicer like the editor's note kind of brings in like a little bit of their personality that maybe they were a bit too like shy or something to kind of like put in which I think is really sweet.

55:11.44
queerpersonals
Yeah, yeah I That's I just I Yeah I Just hope that like this person like she was I don't know like got like I mean New York was like a huge so place for you know, just all the queers to Congregate. So I hope that then like she was able. Find this community through this ad because it sounds like yes, she's just like starting out to like just reaching out it like a like like ah like a lifeline and might have like like how did they like meet the editor. How does the editor know this person. How did.

55:32.30
Daniel Griffiths
I.

55:49.70
queerpersonals
Like I wonder like what kind of conversations were going on behind the scenes like did the editor like push her to like post like like you should really do this like I think you need like to get out there more like um or like.

55:53.54
Daniel Griffiths
And.

56:06.50
queerpersonals
Maybe the editor was like the person that introduced her to the magazine or maybe like I don't know like or she reached out like after seeing the magazine somewhere like there's just so many possibilities. Once again, we'll never know but ah yeah.

56:16.30
Daniel Griffiths
I know so sad so read the next 1 from the same newspaper slash magazine at car which 1 of this um yeah this 1 is

56:24.68
queerpersonals
Um, yes, please do. The directory 1.

56:35.13
Daniel Griffiths
Oregon male student of the bazaar 21 slim white would like to meet singles or couples race. No barrier can be aggressive or passive with the right people but really dig really can dig docile chicks photo please answer all and then it has their box.

56:51.15
queerpersonals
Yes, yeah, yeah, that's another 1 Yeah no, you've got that 1 you should claim it um make it your own. Um, honestly I think ah.

56:52.75
Daniel Griffiths
First off from sass student of the bazaar. That's I my as she put out my Twitter buyer.

57:03.70
Daniel Griffiths
Um, yeah.

57:10.69
queerpersonals
Incredible like it just yes, the student of the bizarre 1 was the 1 that really made me jump in. It's incredible. How forward can just like create like they hook you in. Um.

57:25.30
Daniel Griffiths
Yeah, like I'm so entre to like what they mean by the bizar like are they into like witchcraft and shit like or like weird science stuff like what I want to know so bad like I would write this person just to ask them like what what are you interested in I Just need to know.

57:43.98
queerpersonals
It's it's tantilizing they just or is it. They do? Yeah honestly I bet they got I bet that this person received it like ah like so many letters asking about that I hope they did I hope.

58:02.13
Daniel Griffiths
If Queer people and just say if Queer people were like how we are nowadays then they probably would have gotten a lot of messages being like what does this mean because queer people like weird stuff. So.

58:17.81
queerpersonals
Yeah, no I think and I think the way that all these ads set up are set up just kind of speaks to the fact that we are sort of the same in very um and ways like.

58:31.82
Daniel Griffiths
Um, yeah.

58:37.40
queerpersonals
Like from like other ads that I've read in past episodes just like this complete like like you know this person maybe like maybe I I mean I maybe not I don't know this person specifically in this ad.

58:44.66
Daniel Griffiths
E.

58:54.48
Daniel Griffiths
But you know someone exactly like a it's on Cal like is unrelated was like how I saw a picture from like a transs like an like an ftm like.

58:55.90
queerpersonals
Maybe if I were in Oregon I would yeah.

59:07.51
Daniel Griffiths
Pride protest thing from like the Ninety s or something and I was like they dress exactly like how we dress in 2020 like and he just like love how we're just the exact same people still I think it's so great.

59:13.24
queerpersonals
Exactly.

59:18.85
queerpersonals
Right? Like the Seventy s like lesbians started putting on their fucking flannels and now everybody's dressed in flannels but lesbians are still dressing in flannels and I'm like literally this like doesn't.

59:28.17
Daniel Griffiths
You.

59:36.53
Daniel Griffiths
Yeah.

59:36.81
queerpersonals
Nothing has changed. Ah I also wanted to talk about specifically this ad like other than the student of the bazaar they said I Love everyone anyone like like they I mean.

59:50.67
Daniel Griffiths
Um, yeah.

59:56.46
queerpersonals
I Think it's important that they did say that like Race is no bad barrier like that's a good because a lot of like white people are like whites only or like they are specifically looking for like a gay white something. Um.

01:00:00.49
Daniel Griffiths
A.

01:00:11.19
Daniel Griffiths
It's like the whole like no fats, no femmes. No Asian thing from like grinder but like you know, not good stuff.

01:00:13.92
queerpersonals
Yeah, exactly which is literally the same literally the same in everyone else. So I do appreciate like that. But then they're like we'll meet singles. We'll meet couples can be aggressive but also passive but I'm like what are you want.

01:00:22.10
Daniel Griffiths
Um, yeah. Um. I know because it's 1 of those things where it's like I don't know enough about this person to make that big of a judgment follow personally from my experience using dating apps and stuff like that in the past is people who are there like I'm down for everything I'm like that's a bit of a red flag I would like that you know.

01:00:33.83
queerpersonals
But what are you looking for. But they I mean.

01:00:52.31
Daniel Griffiths
What you have like what are your limits I want you to know exactly kind of what you're into or like have some kind of an inkling of like things that you could be interested in or not interested in because it kind of it shows me that you've done the work to really like get to know yourself like that So people are that just like I like everything and I'm like.

01:01:06.97
queerpersonals
Um, yeah.

01:01:11.52
Daniel Griffiths
I doubt that I feel like even the most like sexually liberated people have their limits I don't think there's very many people who are into absolutely everything on the sexual spectrum. So it's just like stuff like that'm a bit like hold the breaks I need to know a bit more about you before I'm like.

01:01:22.27
queerpersonals
You know.

01:01:31.50
Daniel Griffiths
Gonna do anything but you know.

01:01:32.41
queerpersonals
Yeah, it's like baby baby reflect a little bit and then come back to me? Um, but.

01:01:35.65
Daniel Griffiths
Um, yeah.

01:01:41.87
queerpersonals
Once again, the student of the bazaar really draws you in so you can I feel like they will get the messages and then draw out like more. Maybe I guess.

01:01:48.77
Daniel Griffiths
Yeah, and because again it's like there's only so much that you can actually like say in like forty words or however, long this 1 was so.

01:02:15.35
Daniel Griffiths
Yeah, it like is hard to describe yourself in that little words. So like I can understand why like some people where it just feels like that.

01:02:24.78
queerpersonals
Yeah, it's really true.

01:02:31.31
Daniel Griffiths
Ad is like completely lacking because it's like they're actually like giving enough space to really like tell you anything about yourself.

01:02:35.80
queerpersonals
Yeah, no, you're right? and it's yeah well, it's like even going back to the up the up to the 1 before from the guy in new york who desires to be made a woman like she only gave us like maybe like 30 words.

01:02:46.41
Daniel Griffiths
Yeah.

01:02:53.98
queerpersonals
And then like the editor was like let me put 30 more in so that you know a little bit about this person because I get yeah I mean I don't think I could do it I couldn't I mean.

01:02:54.96
Daniel Griffiths
Um, yeah.

01:03:08.14
queerpersonals
Yeah I don't know maybe there's a contest in here describe yourself in 30 words or less. Yeah.

01:03:11.62
Daniel Griffiths
Oh god that just sounds like 1 of those like awful like icebreaker like activities it teaches and stuff would make you do on like the first day of class and it's like describe yourself and I'm like I've never done anything in my life and I don't know anything about myself because I can't think of anything that I've ever done right now if you like put me on the spot like that I'm like.

01:03:29.39
queerpersonals
Exact like what I did to you today at the beginning top the episode. Um.

01:03:30.63
Daniel Griffiths
Ah, yeah to like write that down first because I was like if I had try and do that on the spot I can't do that I know myself too. Well.

01:03:42.20
queerpersonals
Yeah, no, that's why I'm like script need a script need a script I need a script everybody else needs a script too. So or at least like a general outline. You know some people can speak off the cuff. But yeah.

01:03:57.33
Daniel Griffiths
Gad of my not me.

01:04:01.40
queerpersonals
Know not me either as you can tell by my 12 page long thing anyway, moving on to the next paper the San francisco bay times which I have dabbled in many a time before in these in these episodes. But I'm gonna go a little bit deeper.

01:04:05.56
Daniel Griffiths
Um, yeah.

01:04:18.74
Daniel Griffiths
A.

01:04:20.44
queerpersonals
Ah, it's held by the Berkeley university of california library digital collections. This specific publication was first published in one seventy eight and its wikipedia page claims that it's the first lgbt cube newspaper founded jointly and equally quote unquote by gay men and lesbian women. And it is still publishing today. Ah, which is it's kind of that's I mean nineteen seventy. It's cool I feel like it is like probably the oldest anyway, these 2 ads were both published in the September and 1980 nine volume 10 n number twelve issue.

01:04:45.73
Daniel Griffiths
And.

01:04:58.91
queerpersonals
Um, so this specific ad was posted in the bisexual section. It says feminine women sought or feminine woman sought I don't know it's a little fuzzy. My friend is a warm, witty handsome and hardworking professional.

01:05:11.50
Daniel Griffiths
A yeah.

01:05:18.60
queerpersonals
He is also a shy post-operative femaleto-male transsexual. He likes art music travel and good conversation if you were an attractive feminine lesbian or a bias less straight woman drawn to the unconventional and you feel charming in sincerity are important then he might be the 1 for you. And then you replie reply to the their box. Um, and my first thought in this is I would definitely swipe right for friendship because I'm not I'm not a femme lesbian so I yeah I'm not high femme. So but ah.

01:05:50.91
Daniel Griffiths
Um.

01:05:56.60
queerpersonals
The other thing is like this was written by someone else and I think that that is really a really interesting piece because most people write it on their own. Um, but I like I am and assuming that he knows that the person posted it. Um, but maybe it's a little like Christmas surprise.

01:06:03.50
Daniel Griffiths
A.

01:06:14.88
Daniel Griffiths
Surprise Got your girlfriend.

01:06:15.60
queerpersonals
I Don't know like ah surprise a blind date and brought you a girl phone but what are ah your thoughts on this.

01:06:24.30
Daniel Griffiths
I Think it is quite sweet the like his friend right for him as well because like I think a lot of the time people can be very like overly self-critical. Maybe like if they're trying to like get a date. They might kind of like tell a bit of a feb or something to kind of like make themselves like seem better than they are.

01:06:42.60
queerpersonals
Yeah.

01:06:43.26
Daniel Griffiths
But like this seems like a really like genuine description of like what he's like and like how much like this person like really cares about him and like thinks he's like a great and like lovely guy like I think it's really really cute. Um, it's already like that I also thought it was like really interesting kind of.

01:06:55.44
queerpersonals
Yeah.

01:07:02.85
Daniel Griffiths
I guess maybe like the fluidity of like the kind of like sexualities and stuff that they kind of suggested because it was like feminine lesbian or by Slash straight woman. Um, which I thought was quite interesting because I guess maybe back then there was like ah that kind of different.

01:07:09.47
queerpersonals
Are. Ah, her.

01:07:22.22
Daniel Griffiths
Kind of conceptualization of what like a Trans man was like half the time people just kind of thought they were like butch Lesbians or something like that. But like I think it's quite interesting to kind of dive into that because I think it is also nice that like they don't.

01:07:29.24
queerpersonals
Yeah.

01:07:40.50
Daniel Griffiths
But like they still describe like the buy and like straight women as like straight for being attracted to him instead of just being like no, you're actually Lesbian for being attracted to him something like that I think is quite cute.

01:07:42.27
queerpersonals
Are.

01:07:49.90
queerpersonals
Yeah, yeah I do something I do feel like this could have maybe not and like the well maybe in the bice I don't know not in the bisexual section but like this could have been like an ad on lex.

01:08:01.61
Daniel Griffiths
A.

01:08:07.51
queerpersonals
Today I feel like I don't know um, but. Drawn to the unconventional is like so interesting. Just like that that phrasing is and is just a ah weird phrase for this? Um, but yeah.

01:08:17.34
Daniel Griffiths
Um.

01:08:28.72
queerpersonals
I Don't know. Do you hear that little cute.

01:08:31.10
Daniel Griffiths
Yeah, and sweet.

01:08:35.31
queerpersonals
Um, but yeah I I really liked this 1 tode his name is to stool I'm gonna open the door.

01:08:43.31
Daniel Griffiths
All is equal toed. No.

01:08:53.26
queerpersonals
Come on, you have to be quiet.

01:09:01.31
queerpersonals
Um, ah, um, yeah, would you swipe left or right for yeah.

01:09:09.12
Daniel Griffiths
I mean I'm not a woman but for friendship I would definitely swipe right? He seems like a really sweet guy I'd want to be friends with so what about you.

01:09:20.62
queerpersonals
yeah yeah I would definitely swipe right despite being a ah nine non-binary son boy thing. Ah, um, but this definitely seems like 1 of the.

01:09:32.27
Daniel Griffiths
Man.

01:09:40.10
queerpersonals
The type of person that my partner Rachel would would fall for um out would you stop it here's the monster if you like cats I don't know.


01:09:52.47
Daniel Griffiths
Love Cards is' so cute is this scratching show How we yeah.

01:09:57.90
queerpersonals
He's still it in yeah, just scratching shit up. Um, no, you cannot sit on the paper. That's okay so.

01:10:09.70
Daniel Griffiths
Should I read the next 1 Okay, no I'm obsessed to like this 1 just from the getgo. The title is love kitten for a man with 3 exclamation points.

01:10:14.20
queerpersonals
Yes, please. So it's the same you and our last ad.

01:10:22.20
queerpersonals
Um I think.

01:10:28.42
Daniel Griffiths
Um, its man wanted 27 to 37 14 plus hundred and eighty five What s that mean pounds. Okay I was like I cannot read what that says that scan.

01:10:38.23
queerpersonals
Pounds. It's a hundred and 8 pound sign. Yeah, it's ah yeah, it's it's a it's blury. Okay, sorry let me ski this man out before and then continue.

01:10:47.47
Daniel Griffiths
Yeah.

01:10:52.42
Daniel Griffiths
Yeah I'll just Restart or.

01:10:54.10
queerpersonals
You are the worst. Okay, oh I appreciate you Sorry it's usually not this to you? Okay, okay, will.

01:11:03.17
Daniel Griffiths
It's all right? I'll just like start from the beginning can edit all that bit out. Um so the title is love kitten for a man with 3 exclamation points and then it's men wanted in parentheses 20 7 to 30 7 Five foot nine um plus 1 hundred and eighty five pounds plus ah good masculine body and mind not into gay or straight scenes or attitudes any race healthy h every ne or positive in parentheses always top aggressive with nice size equipment. Um. Wanting feminine companionship and intimacy employed alcohol and drug free. Um in parentheses. Not feminine whatsoever men only um and then I think this is the description of ah her because it's like me and then it's like a little smiley face I think. I don't know if that's a smiley face or just like a colon and bracket. Um, but then she goes on knowing we knew that and I just saw 1 I say oh this my face. Um.

01:11:59.41
queerpersonals
Yeah I don't I don't know I didn't even catch that before sorry go ahead? yeah.

01:12:11.26
Daniel Griffiths
And then she goes on to say Love Kitten available Feminine Attractive Pre-op T s secure living as female, not wishing surgery or surgery ticket Caucasian Twenty six 100 and 75 pounds Sexy body breasts and bottom lacy Soft under Tomboyish Appearance Healthy Pasta positive. That possibly positive. That's a tongue twister um, wishing companionship and impossible husband for future and then the details to write back but was a long 1 The rest of them were like social 1 had a lot.

01:12:33.93
queerpersonals
Ha ha.

01:12:44.26
queerpersonals
Yes, yeah I forget how much it is to post in this? Um, which is stupid because I had it in every single other 1 But yeah, it's it's long that we get a lot of information I feel like there's like a lot to.

01:13:04.19
Daniel Griffiths
Yeah, yeah.

01:13:04.29
queerpersonals
Unpack out of this ad um ah my first thoughts is I love a love kitten. Um, yeah and I like that.

01:13:12.57
Daniel Griffiths
I Think it's such a cute descriptionure everything with like all of these I'm just like it's key.

01:13:22.51
queerpersonals
Yeah, well I don't love is cute I don't know like and that's me, Um, but the other thing I was well so not into gay or straight scenes or attitudes I I mean.

01:13:25.20
Daniel Griffiths
Exactly.

01:13:41.53
queerpersonals
What I took that is I was like oh like the bar scene I'm thinking about or like strict gender rules of like the like the I don't know like the Cis straight scene. But then once again I feel like you definitely like took it like you're like now it feels.

01:13:55.30
Daniel Griffiths
Um, yeah, it felt yeah like I thought it felt more kind of stereotypical because of the way that she describes like the kind of partner that she wants and the way that she describes herself. Um.

01:14:00.54
queerpersonals
It feels more.

01:14:11.57
queerpersonals
And.

01:14:14.52
Daniel Griffiths
Because it's like I want like a already top like aggressive like nice size equipment kind of a thing and then it's like I'm got a sexy body and like breaths and bottom and stuff like that and it felt quite like stereotypical but then it also does feel quite like. Gender Fucky in the way that she's like under Tomboyish appearance and stuff like that like that feels quite like not into kind of straight scenes and stuff like that to me I think there's like a lot that's very interesting and like the description.

01:14:40.35
queerpersonals
Um, yeah, yeah, it's I mean I I enjoy it as like a like I feel like she's saying not into these straight scenes or attitudes. But then like there's still like it still like comes through in I don't know in that Way. So it's It's almost just like that that subconscious like I'm not into like the like the normal mainstream of it. But Also I.

01:15:00.17
Daniel Griffiths
A.

01:15:06.40
Daniel Griffiths
Yeah.

01:15:17.27
queerpersonals
Do want to appear that way almost which I mean is totally fair because safety and also you're I mean you're acute femme woman who just wants you know a masculine man with nice size equipment. That's fine I guess.

01:15:18.66
Daniel Griffiths
Yeah. And.

01:15:33.47
Daniel Griffiths
Um.

01:15:36.93
queerpersonals
Um, is what else the healthy like H I V ah. And like just that we'll just in general the H I V speak in reference in this because let's see it's 1980 nine like the Aids epidemic is thriving at this point I don't know if that's the the best word to use but it's.

01:15:52.30
Daniel Griffiths
Um, yeah.

01:16:03.60
Daniel Griffiths
Yeah.

01:16:09.30
queerpersonals
It's intense. No 1 knows anything about anything really? um, there's no help I feel like from the government. um and yeah um I think it's.

01:16:12.24
Daniel Griffiths
And.

01:16:19.63
Daniel Griffiths
Yeah.

01:16:28.55
queerpersonals
Interesting. So she's like you can be h I v Negative. You can be h a v positive and then like further down um she's like I'm healthy. But I'm also possibly positive and what I was reading that as is like I don't want to get tested I don't want to know I don't want to find out. Um.