181. Transforming Into A Boutique Consultancy with Tradewinds Leadership

Wondering if you and your partner can build a thriving consulting business together?

Running a consulting business as a couple comes with its own unique challenges and opportunities. It’s normal to worry about balancing your personal and professional lives, especially when you’re also trying to niche down and grow a sustainable practice.

In this episode, Melisa Liberman sits down with Stephen Dummit and Olivia Leigh of Tradewinds Leadership to discuss how they navigated these challenges. 

They share their journey from generalists to niche experts and how they balance their relationship while running a successful boutique consulting firm.

In This Episode:

• Struggling to find your niche while worrying about turning away potential clients? How Stephen and Olivia moved past their concerns to create a stand-out brand.
• Practical tips from Stephen and Olivia on maintaining a healthy relationship while growing a business together.
• Discover how to move from feeling “salesy” to building genuine relationships that lead to long-term clients.
• Insights into creating a consulting practice that aligns with your values and lifestyle goals.

If you’re wondering whether you and your partner can successfully build a consulting business or if you’re struggling to find your niche, this episode will provide you with the insights and strategies you need to succeed.

Listen now to discover how to navigate the challenges of running a consulting business as a couple and create a sustainable, fulfilling practice.

Resources:

• "Grow Your Consulting Business: The 14-Step Roadmap to Make Your Independent Consulting Goals a Reality" by Melisa Liberman - https://www.melisaliberman.com/book
• Full show notes and more information: https://shownotes.melisaliberman.com/episode-181/
  
  

Interested in working with Melisa? Visit consultmelisa.com to apply for a consultation and explore coaching opportunities. 

Want help achieving your consulting business goals? Melisa can help. Click here for more on coaching tailored to you as an independent consulting business owner.

Transcript

Melisa: 0:00

Welcome to Episode 181 of the Grow Your Independent Consulting Business Podcast. I'm so excited today. I just finished interviewing a couple of my clients, Olivia Lee and Stephen Dummitt of Tradewinds Leadership, and I wanted to bring them on the podcast because they have such a unique story to share, while at the same time I think you'll find so much common ground with them. some of the highlights of the conversation, We're about niching down and choosing a niche and the resistance to doing that because of the worry about leaving money on the table and how they overcame that we also dove into what it's like to run a consulting business effectively as a. Romantic couple and, balancing that personal life with professional life. And really dove into sales mindset and shifting out of that worry about being too salesy and how to do that. And Steven and Olivia Bull share a lot about what their experiences have been in really transforming from a. Business that Stephen was running himself as Stephen Dummett, LLC into a micro boutique that they're running together called Tradewinds Leadership and the steps that they took to get there. And I think it will be so inspiring for you, so relatable for you, and hopefully give you a lot of different ways of looking at your own business, even if you want to remain solo. that you can leverage and implement to make running your business more effective, more easeful, and ultimately more fulfilling. So without further ado, we'll dive into today's episode. I'm so excited today to welcome two of my clients, Stephen Dummett and Olivia Lee of Tradewinds. I cannot wait for you to meet them and hear so much more about working together as a couple, In a running a business and the journey that they've had in building out their consulting organization. And, so many lessons learned that I think you'll benefit from here today as you're listening. So with that, I would love for you to introduce yourself. So if we could start off with that, Steven.

Stephen: 2:21

All right. Melissa, thank you for that warm introduction, Stephen Dummitt of Tradewinds Leadership. And I am the director of operations and I handle most of the things that we're doing. In the business and I'll pass it to Olivia.

Olivia: 2:37

All right, Olivia Lee and I'm the Director of Strategies, so to speak, to Stephen's Director of Operations and mostly working on the business. So, that's how we try to delineate a little bit, but we all know with. We're, we're doing a whole lot more than just that. Those are kind of the general boxes.

Melisa: 2:56

That's amazing. I wanted to have you on the show here today because you've made such incredible progress this year in terms of evolving your business and strengthening the business foundation and, really making a stand out, Brand and positioning and messaging for yourselves and the company. And so I think it will be so inspiring for other consultants to hear the journey that you've had and if you're game for it, sharing the ups and downs along the way, that got you to where you are right now and are helping you to move forward. because you may agree with this, it's a very lonely process out here, although for you too, you have each other at least. but sometimes we think we're the only ones struggling with certain things. And there's so much commonality amongst all of us in the consulting world, in some of the challenges that we face. So that's why I was hoping you would come on today. I'm so glad that you agreed to. To share some of the behind the scenes in where you were, and where you are now from the last few months and, kind of sharing your secrets, if you will. So what I thought we might start off with is just talking a little bit about where your company was in, year ago, if we look back and what it is that you are focused on and what the challenges were, and then we'll kind of fast forward to. What it looks like now and then talk through some of those key pieces of the journey. So if you're game to start with kind of did it look like last year, your business?

Stephen: 4:27

I'm more than willing and happy to share my story. I think storytelling is how we all relate the most. I would say one year ago, the business was not even a shadow of what it is today. one year ago, it didn't have the name Tradewinds Leadership. Wasn't quite sure what the focus was. I just knew that I had a passion for wanting to help people. in facilitating and in coaching. So just human development and I was just running it as Stephen Dummett LLC because I had no other kind of pointed name or really any direction and was pretty lost as to, who my target audience was, who I was trying to go after in terms of clients. Or even what industries I was involved in. I really had this like cast the widest net possible approach and cross your fingers. Let's see what comes in, which wasn't serving me very well. it was just kind of going by luck really at that point.

Melisa: 5:37

Yeah. So you were landing, how are you landing clients, through a subcontractor relationship, mostly word of mouth referrals. Tell us a little bit about how you were landing those consulting and coaching clients.

Stephen: 5:49

Yeah, it was a mix of word of mouth or personal relationships. It could be friendships or a friend of a friend or other business relationships I had, coming from the world of construction, tapping on some of those shoulders, but really there was always a warm introduction. I always knew someone from some other vein. Coupled with, I would do subcontracting or independent contractor with another leadership firm, and I would get coaching clients and facilitation clients that way. So it was really kind of a open arms, what was coming at me, not so much in the driver's seat. Going after what I was looking for.

Melisa: 6:31

Yeah. And Olivia, what was your experience of the business last year from your vantage point?

Olivia: 6:39

Yeah. I mean, a year ago it was definitely a lot more separate, you know, where I was kind of doing my thing and he was doing his thing. And, I would say that's definitely shifted where now we have a much more collaborative approach to it. And I think that's really served us well having different backgrounds. I think like listening to Steven talk about it, it's pretty typical of consulting, right? You have somebody that's so good at the service delivery part, and he just, he gets such great feedback as a coach and facilitator, but then parlaying that into a business strategy is just a completely different thing. And, at some point, We kind of realized like, okay, we really need more of a framework around this so that we have a strategy because, coming from a more corporate background, like you do, I know enough to know that that's what needs to happen. But I also was not looking to become the end all be all person that's ultimately like telling him how to do what he needs to do, if that makes sense. So I feel like a year ago, it was really knowing that there was something really great there, but then it's like, what's the packaging around it that makes it a vehicle that can go somewhere?

Melisa: 7:54

Yeah. Okay. Let's, let's skip forward a minute and then we'll kind of work our way backward, but let's skip forward and describe to us now the business. What does the business look like now, Steven?

Stephen: 8:05

Now the business has a much, much more pointed focus. now we're specifically working on workforce development and leadership in the trades, in construction specifically, and even beyond that, we're really starting to lean into the focus of the area of mental health awareness and how to go about talking about it. How to take the stigma out of that conversation, how to get very hardened, career, lifelong, typically male construction workers to want to talk about mental health and what it means to them and means to their teams, which is a Like a pinpoint razor sharp angle compared to one year ago.

Melisa: 8:51

Yeah, absolutely. and what is your perspective, Olivia, if you had to describe where the business is now?

Olivia: 8:58

Yeah. Just, Would reiterate the much more focus and much, tighter focus rather than seeing all of the potential and all the places we could go and getting almost overwhelmed by it.

Melisa: 9:13

Okay, so now that we know where you started, which was kind of, we take it back to some of the concepts that we talk about on the podcast and in the book, it's kind of the make it work business model or that dependent business model, right, where you were just, Stephen, you were Yeah. Operating under your own name and you were taking on really interesting clients, some kind of small to medium sized businesses, some individuals, just a mixture of some that are working in the construction field, some that I think were wineries, different types of organizations that you were working with, but more if you If it's fair to say more of that kind of make it work, whoever comes to you, you were figuring it out and responding to what they were needing and, creating, unique solutions for each one of them, from a leadership training perspective and facilitation and strategy, facilitation and coaching. is that an accurate depiction of what you were doing last year?

Stephen: 10:09

I would say it's on the nose. Definitely make, uh, make it work. So it was, yeah, from winery production to investment capital firms, to some construction, to some electronic or musician types for independent coaching, metal manufacturing, Like I said, cast a really, really wide net and, as a coach and facilitator. I do it because I have a desire to help people improve. And my original thought was, well, if I just keep the door open to everybody, I can help more people. And kind of realizing that I, it's like jack of all trades, master of none. I really wasn't focusing or helping the people as many people as I thought I could be by being a generalist. And so, that make it work, open arms. Yeah, was feast or famine. Yeah. you have the gigs, you have the job, you have the coaching, you have the contract. And then when it's over, it's, and that's a, scary place to be.

Melisa: 11:09

An empty pipeline. So, if I were thinking about the, curve, the maturity curve, and for those listeners who don't know what I'm talking about, it's a chapter in the book, Grow Your Consulting Business. We'll put the link in the show notes, but now you're at this place, just to reflect what I see for you is that you're in this known for, zone you're building your reputation as the go to leadership experts in the construction space for those large regional, national, local construction firms who are looking to improve the retention and effectiveness and productivity If we were to call it white collar, leaders in the offices and also the blue collar workers that are out in the field doing the actual, projects. and so you being able to move into that known for and sought after space. I would love to dive more into like the steps that you've taken, Steven and Olivia to get there. before I do though, I want to make sure I didn't put any words in your mouth. Does it feel like that's where you're at in the maturity curve? Most days anyway.

Stephen: 12:16

Yeah. Most, most days I would say that's, that's, that's pretty accurate. And it's really just the maturity curve is finding, is identifying that identity. And not being the generalist. So now focusing on the construction industry and Melissa, you put it, you put it beautifully. It's, it is white collar and it is blue collar. And one of the things that I would see coming from construction myself, and then being in the leadership, facilitating space and coaching space is that many construction companies really focus their leadership or their additional training. on that white collar side and until the blue collar workers work up to a certain level where they're running crews and have one foot in the office and one foot in the field, that's kind of where a lot of their training and team building strategies, training starts to come in. And I felt that was a huge gap that being someone that comes from the field and knowing how dangerous it is at times, how much pressure is on you at times. There's extensive hours for most people working in construction. So working 12 hour shifts is very common for a physical laborious kind of job, even if it's a skilled trade and not having any of those team building communication skills, was really a detriment. and I saw that there was a need to be there. So I put myself right in that space. And so, like you said, that identity for people to start knowing that, that trade wins leadership, we want your whole company to be able to communicate effectively. And the culture that's at the top should, could be the same culture. That's all the way down, with the boots on the ground, if it's treated that way. So it's kind of a letting people know that that's more of our approach and our angle. And that that's not something that we were seeing anywhere else in the industry.

Melisa: 14:07

Yeah. And so maybe you could give us a little bit of behind the scenes. And I know you worked with Olivia a lot on this too, of how you really figured out what the service offerings would be. Then we'll take a step back and talk about how you focus on construction as well. But since we're talking about offerings a little here, really thinking about, because I think that's one of the biggest, one of the struggles that consultants have is really figuring out what are they going to offer and to whom are they going to offer it within their targets. And you've been able to strike a really good balance between, creating some breadth and also some depth. So we'd love to hear what are your thoughts on the way that you were able to kind of go from feeling confused and not sure what, how to kind of package all of this up into these very clear offerings.

Stephen: 14:58

Yeah. And, and Olivia, I invite you to, to dive in any point here, if you want to lead this one off you, you can as well.

Olivia: 15:05

Yeah. I would say, I feel like one of the most important things about developing the service portfolio is, it's still not totally set in stone because we're really big on. Not taking the build it and they'll come approach. So the idea being, we want to have a really good relationship and rapport with the industry so that what we're providing is something that's filling a need, and not kind of just coming up with something that sounds good. And then finding out like, Oh, nobody's worried about that. you're kind of just building something that sounds good to you. so, we've definitely gone through a lot of iterations and I've talked about it a lot. even things like to Steven's point about the white collar versus blue collar dynamic in construction, it could be that on like a white collar side of the equation. They might have a 12 week series schedule that they could accommodate for eight hours, one day a week, but on the blue collar side, you're going to get laughed out of the room if you think that somebody is going to give up their crew for eight hours, one day a week, you know? So it's really, I think it's really important regardless of what space you're in to have a really good pulse on what do my clients need? what are they really looking for? And how do we strike that balance between delivering something really valuable and also making sure that it's realistic?

Melisa: 16:27

Yeah, to reflect what I've seen in the work we've done together is you both take such a, an inquisitive approach to this. You have an idea about what you want to, offer. You have an idea about what would benefit the potential client, but you're also going in with this consultative slash coaching mind of really, truly asking questions and listening and partnering with the client. Those potential clients to build solutions that will work best for them. And then being able to reuse that as you move forward with other clients and certain pieces and parts and that, but at the same time being flexible.

Olivia: 17:05

Yeah. Yeah. And also on the other end of it, knowing that, I mean, we talked to a company not long ago and one of the people that we were talking to, he said, well, I started doing research on Resources we might use. And, I was thinking maybe we'd find like a free video or something, you know, it's also knowing on our end of things, what change management really looks like. And knowing that a freebie video is not going to get you the result that you're wanting. maybe even like a product. An out of the box package coming from a paid resource, having also that partnership with them to help guide them in the sense of, Hey, if you really want this to stick, if you really want it to do what you're expecting, here's, here's that third party perspective that gets the benefit of going to different companies and seeing what really sticks and what doesn't.

Melisa: 17:56

Yeah. Did you have something you wanted to add

Stephen: 17:59

Yeah. I was going to say a little bit just from, from my side on the approaches, it started with what am I really, Passionate about, and what do I want to be able to deliver to the companies? And then it's the consultative coaching approach as you talk to them. Well, what are they actually looking for? What are the gaps? What are the hurdles? What are the speed bumps that they're facing? And then that third piece of the equation, how can we deliver it to them in a way that's That makes sense for them logistically, time wise, number of participants. Is it a series of one on one coachings? Is it a group facilitation? Do we need to foster group conversations as well as leaning into what tools are you already using as a company? What are the core values you already have as a company? How can we integrate? What you're already using and amplify it. How do we maximize it and make it stronger? So that really helped us kind of narrow our approach with the companies being curious.

Melisa: 19:00

Yes. It's one of your super powers, if I could say that. let's see, let's go back for a moment and talk about, so we just into the offerings, but let's go back even further in the journey here and talk about if it's fair for me to say a bit of resistance to being, to specializing and that you had coming into, the work that you wanted to do to evolve your business. And at first, I think it felt like you were potentially losing something. you might have to turn away business or you might, lose business by specializing versus where you're at now with a very specific special and unique. So I would love to hear a little bit about how that went for you, because I know that can be such a challenge for many of us thinking that if we're specializing, we're leaving opportunities out.

Stephen: 19:53

Yeah. That one was, that was a huge mindset shift. That was early on in our time together, Melissa. And that was a super beneficial shift that, that I had to face. Was I resistant? Yeah, I put up a whole fortress wall around this. Let's be specialized. And in fact, as Olivia and I talked about it more and entertained the idea, we used the term pigeonholing. It's like, okay, well, we're going to pigeonhole ourselves. Like, let's go ahead and do that. And realizing that. When you stay general, you think that you're going to talk to so many more people and maybe you'll get 1 percent of this a hundred thousand people. And if you're lucky, but really people are looking for a specific answer to a specific problem. And if you're very general. You're not going to be a specific answer to a specific problem. So starting to let go of that original mindset, that the more people I can touch, the more potential clients I have, that was the limiting belief that I had to wrestle with. And, once we kind of eliminated that and we started focusing on, well, What is real to me? I grew up in construction. Construction is very real. Okay. That means the wine industry. It's next to it, but maybe that's not the focus. The capital investment industry, finance. Okay. Again, involved, but maybe not our focus. What do I inherently know? What people can I inherently speak to authentically? And as we went closer and closer and closer, to that razor's edge of being specific, it became more and more clear exactly my purpose and why I'm here and who and how I can help them. And what it's done from when you and I first started Melissa to now is that people recognize you for that specific space. So now when it's how do we speak to our foreman level, supervisor level, people in the field that the blue collar we mentioned. My name, Stephen Dunlap, and Tradewinds name for me to live, it gets thrown in right away. And even more specifically is now in this, mental health awareness space. how do we speak about that when really the root of all of that for mental health awareness starts with Communication and how we communicate with one another as humans, which is right up the alley of all the leadership training is something I'm very educated in. So the closer we got to that razor's edge, that fine point, the more people were able to quickly attach it to the Tradewinds name and then pass it on to another company or pass it on to another reference. But Oh, Oh, I fought it at the beginning. Yeah, it was tough. yeah.

Melisa: 22:30

Olivia, I'd love to hear your perspective of this because you've been such a sounding board, I think, and also doing a lot of the messaging and positioning and some of the website development and marketing, all the things. So I would love to hear your perspective on how this has evolved and any resistance you might have had at the beginning and where you are now.

Olivia: 22:51

Yeah. I think it's probably pretty normal for people to fear, feel a bit of nervousness and fear on the front end of, I need this really, really wide net because I don't, I need numbers. I'm looking for a break. And it's, it seems counterintuitive to narrow things. But when you think about it, if you're looking for a resource in anything in life, like if you have a plumbing problem, you're not going on Craigslist and like posting about, like, I just, I'm looking for somebody that knows something about it, like you go find a plumber, right? So I think within the industry specialization, it really became kind of obvious when we finally came around to that, where it was like, Well, of course that makes sense. especially when it comes to speaking to people in the field, you know, Steven is a construction guy and that carries a lot, honestly, just like Melissa, if you walk into a consulting conversation with somebody that is coming from a more corporate background, knowing The language and understanding their issues. It's just that, that credibility that you get in the bank right from the bat is really so invaluable. And I don't think you get that if you're stretching too far. And like, actually Steven even had an engagement early on, I think with the financial industry where one of the questions was, well, how do you know what our industry is like? they were even kind of like questioning whether he could do. a leadership training engagement, which of course we know he can, but it just carries so much weight. It's almost like this, there's almost like a cliquishness about it. Like, well, do you know me really? how well do you understand what I'm dealing with?

Melisa: 24:36

I just want to point out here too, we've gone from all things to all people today. if you're listening to this, you won't be able to see it, but if you are on watching this on YouTube, you'll be able to see that Steven has a polo shirt on with the Tradewinds leadership logo on it. And that is everything now. It's so good. having come through this whole process.

Olivia: 24:58

not to wear mine just because I felt like it would look like we were trying to sell you, like literally

Stephen: 25:03

We're B2 Twinning. Melissa, can I add one more, one more bit about the learning to focus, instead of being a generalist, is, if you're watching, I'll talk with my hands, but if you're just listening, It was really scary and very daunting to try to pigeonhole yourself or get really specific. But if you think of the image of an hourglass is really a great metaphor here, is that once you kind of nail down that specific point Where you're focusing your efforts and you know exactly who that target market is and what you're offering, the hourglass in the middle starts to go back out. And so what I've found is that once we've leaned into the space that we're in, suddenly my network actually broadened because I knew exactly who I was reaching out to. So now I'm speaking to. different suicide prevention companies, all across the nation, executive directors of SafeTalk and assist programs that are on the East coast. and suddenly I had this whole pool of people that I didn't even realize were part of my network and part of my industry until I knew exactly what my industry was. So that hourglass figure, it's tough to kind of think that you need to pinpoint, but it opens doors that you don't realize are there at the fine edge.

Melisa: 26:18

It's such an incredible visual you've just painted because that's what I experienced in working with you too, is it just like as soon as we got through that little pinpoint there, then it unlocked all of these ideas and creativity for you in the sense of the way you were marketing things. So what you wanted to call your company, the way that you were going to market and the associations, for example, that you were starting to talk to and network with. And I think it's such a good example for everyone listening in the sense of sometimes we think, well, we better just focus our businesses on our network and what, who we know already. And what you just shared is so important because you've met. A crazy number of people in the last few months, because you were specialized and because you have such a unique perspective to bring to the table, that the people that you are working with who, are in their day to day, aren't thinking about the types of things you're bringing to the table to talk with them about. And they're so grateful to have met you and to have heard the perspectives that you're sharing and You're getting such a good, traction on turning conversations into opportunities as a result of that. I think just from my vantage point, what are your thoughts about that?

Stephen: 27:35

think that's spot on that once I realized the specific area, I wanted to focus my energy on, I knew where to point it. I had a target that I could actually aim at. And oftentimes in facilitations, we'll say, aim at nothing and you'll hit it every time. that was me before as I didn't know where to focus all this energy and that I have. And all this passion that I have and the purpose. And once it got focused, I knew exactly who I was talking to, what areas I'm researching, what podcasts I'm listening to, what books I'm referencing. And when I'm going into these conversations now, I'm very educated and the people are picking up that you are in this specific, small micro part of the industry. Where you're an expert and I'm meeting them on that level and I never would have been there before. I would have been trying to memorize like the entire entirety of the Encyclopedia Britannica. If that's still a thing, if people don't have those, right? whereas whereas it's very hard to memorize all of that information for thousands of industries. But when I focus on one industry and then I focus on a certain aspect of that industry, now I could put all of my energy and attention there. and really become a leader in that space.

Melisa: 28:48

And it makes your lead generation process and system so much more, specific, you know, where to find the people that are ideal clients, you know, how to get in front of them. You know what to say to them. That moves just a conversation into an opportunity. made your life, I think, a lot easier, having made that, that one critical decision of niching down.

Stephen: 29:10

Yeah. and it really,

Melisa: 29:11

gears for, oh, go ahead.

Stephen: 29:12

honestly, and it really expands that, pipeline. So now you're talking to other industry experts in your specific field, and then they're like, you need to talk to so and so or, Hey, let me link you with so and so. Because you're at that expert knowledge leader level, not just, Oh, uh, he's another consultant. He's one of a thousand consultants out there. No, he specifically is doing this. I know exactly who I want to reference, you know, network him to, or who to talk to next, or who to make the next, meeting or phone call or meet and greet. so again, it expands that pipeline by being specific. Which, like Olivia pointed out, is counterintuitive at first, for sure.

Melisa: 29:50

Yeah, absolutely. One more thing on that, and then I want to talk about what it's like to work together. But before we do that, I think the one thing that could be really helpful for the listener to think about, is the, what you were just describing, Stephen, of getting introductions and that kind of thing. You've also landed a lot of speaking opportunities as a result of, niching down and having these kinds of conversations and really helping people to understand how to help you, how to connect you to the right opportunities. Do you want to speak a little bit about that piece of it?

Stephen: 30:25

Absolutely. I'll start by kind of referencing the service portfolio idea that we talked about in the beginning. And even when we first started engaging, with one another, Melissa was kind of identifying what does my service portfolio look like, and, Even six months ago, speaking engagements or keynote speeches or being a guest speaker I would say it's not, wasn't even really on the radar. I knew that those positions existed. And then once I started to specify and work with Olivia and we really Put Tradewinds in a specific space in direction with these companies, all of a sudden I'm getting more and more offers for speaking engagements or to be on podcasts to speak to this specific niche that, that we're in and we're focusing on. and so now as part of those service offerings, yes, there's coaching and there's facilitating always with the consultative approach. But now we're adding speaking engagements on there, which was a whole different area, a whole third leg of the table to help it stand that we weren't really focusing on six months ago, let alone wasn't even in the brain a year ago.

Melisa: 31:32

Which is paid lead generation, really. which is so good. Yeah. Let's switch gears now and talk about one of the things I love about your business model is probably a little bit mystifying for some of us who have a partner or husband or a wife, to work together. It's a unique, skillset, and ability for you to, be partners and also, work this and be partners both in life and in business. So I would love to hear more about, maybe Olivia, you can start us off here and talk about, how this came to be and what considerations did you even have of, is this a good idea or not? was there ever a reservation? and what your goal is in terms of, the way that you guys interact together.

Olivia: 32:14

Yeah, I mean,

Stephen: 32:15

go for it.

Olivia: 32:18

yeah, the first, thing I would say is really a lot of the reason we ended up working with you, Melissa was because again, I was thinking, okay, I tend to be more structured and I have this background in business and really like, could I come up with a plan and a framework and all that? Like, I could. But I'm probably not gonna be my best self if I have to do that. So the idea originally was build up the skill sets that we need on the entrepreneurship side of things on being an independent consultant and, finding you and looking at everything that you had to offer just made so much sense from that standpoint. because really it is about like, Overexposure, I think, is the biggest danger, you don't want to get in this space where everything revolves around work and all of a sudden, like, all of the light is sucked out of you, because you can never get away from it. there are certain things that we do that I think are really helpful. Like, we have dedicated workspaces and When we're not working, we're not in those spaces and vice versa. it also helps that we both have done a lot of personal development and coaching ourselves. So really getting to the place of understanding how we're different and actually appreciating those differences. And when we maybe get a little annoyed with how the other one works, realizing that. It's just, like a preference in how we function. It's not something to get in a fight over. and we've also become very comfortable with healthy conflict. So, there are times when like we get to a point, we get to a point when we're working on something and like, we're seeing it a little differently. And it's really. It's kind of a great exercise in practicing what you preach, right? Because that's what Steven models for people is how do you operate in this leadership capacity where disagreeing about something, it doesn't blow the whole thing up, So there's a lot of it that's been a big, I would say, a big growing experience in a good way.

Melisa: 34:16

And tell us a little bit more of how it maybe came to be where you decided what roles and responsibilities are and is it pretty set or is it pretty fluid? What does that look like as you've structured the way you work together?

Olivia: 34:28

Yeah, I think, again, going back to our individual strengths understanding each other's strengths really well. we were a big fan of assessments. So there are certain things like, working genius and, CliftonStrengths, which I'm actually certified in. That have been really, really helpful. and really it's a bit of, we've always kind of talked about it, like front of the house, back of the house, I really don't necessarily need to be out there facilitating and in terms of the audience we're talking to. To be honest, I'm never going to get the kind of traction that Steven is. So strategically that made a lot of sense. and also I like the strategy and, like you said, the building, the website and the messaging and kind of the content creation end of it. So we're lucky in the sense that. That all just sort of made sense. and I think there are probably other couples out there that they're so alike that that would probably be really hard. Like they would probably be wanting to do the same kinds of things. So I think in general, we really do try to have. The boundaries are not hard line, we kind of do a little, we probably do 20 percent jumping over the line one way or the other, but we do try to maintain somewhat of a lane so that we're not tripping over. I don't know, Stephen, is that fair?

Stephen: 35:46

I would say that's fair. Definitely. It's kind of a Venn diagram with a nice overlap

Melisa: 35:51

uh,

Stephen: 35:51

in, in the middle. from my perspective,

Melisa: 35:55

uh.

Stephen: 35:57

something to, not go into lightly if you're going to be partnering with, your partner in, in life and in business, Olivia kind of echoed, we both have worked with, personal development coaches and done a lot of work on ourselves. And in fact, upon meeting Olivia, she gave me the gauntlet of Myers Briggs type indicator, CliftonStrengths, Builder10 profile, Enneagram. And so it really helps. knowing a lot of these different assessments, what we bring to the table each as kind of, we had a lot of that in our background before we, went into business together and then being able to step back. And identify what are our compliments? I love to be up in front of people. I am probably one of the biggest capital E extroverts. I get energized by being in front of people, fill the room, talking to a camera right now, this is close enough because I know people are going to be listening. Fill me with energy and I very much thrive in that space. And as Olivia mentioned, you know, front of house, back of house, Olivia has a working genius on putting polish and finesse and tenacity and creating. The company to where it actually, uh, it looks like the company. We have deliverables that are on par with the level that we want to be at. and I really thrive at getting out in front and delivering those deliverables to people. And I think a great tool that we recognized early on that we use, and I'll share this with you and your listeners, like I said, I'm an open book, don't mind sharing is any conversations we'll ask ourselves, are we wowing or are we howling? And that's sometimes. I might be idea generating and I'm up in cloud nine feet off the ground, space helmet on trying to connect dots and Olivia will grab one that resonates with her. She'll start howling and suddenly we're on different paths and it's like, hold on, hit the brakes. Are we wowing or howling right now? And the inverse is totally true. Olivia ideates and she starts going down her paths and I grab onto one and here's how I can make that thing happen in real time. It's like, hold on, Which one are we doing right now? So those are like one of many tools that we use to, to stay focused on the conversation and where we're going and where each other's at in the moment. So it's a, careful balance and I would say the biggest, Word, if I had to add any words on all of it, it's boundaries. okay, we've been grinding long enough on this idea. Like let's just hard stop this at 6 p. m. and let's have dinner and just be a normal couple now. Or let's have a normal morning. We won't really dive in and start this stuff until this time. And even beyond that, we calendar things with each other during the day. It's not just, I can pop in and Hey, I got this thing. I need to run by it. It's like, okay, Hey, tomorrow, what do you have between 10 and noon? I'd like to get a half hour on your schedule so that we treat it like a professional business that it is. I need this 30 minutes, uninterrupted and I'm going to dedicate my time and I'm asking for yours and she does the same back to me. So it's been a, an interesting way of figuring out these boundaries and how we communicate and how we complement each other.

Melisa: 39:08

Just knowing the two of you and having worked with you together and separately a little bit, it's just so, is what you've shared today is so valuable because the techniques that you're using with your clients, either with them directly or Olivia with you, helping to build, in terms of, assets for the organization. To be able to apply those to yourselves and really test them out and, keep iterating through them through your own company is so valuable. And I just really appreciate you sharing the behind the scenes of, some of the practical things you've done too, to make the boundaries work and it's a fluid situation and having that communication sounds like it's the recipe for success. hopefully, you know, Anyone who's listening that wants to either work with their life partner or some other partner, more on the business side or, you know, just wants to set up a business structure that isn't solo, what you are showing us here today can be such a good start to the blueprint. So thank you for sharing

Stephen: 40:08

Communication

Melisa: 40:09

Um, let's shift gears a bit. Say that

Stephen: 40:13

does that? Communication is key.

Melisa: 40:18

Yes, this is true. okay, let's shift gears if you're game for it and talk a little bit about the sales process. So if I recall, some of the work we did from a sales perspective, perspective, there was also some resistance or hesitation around feeling too salesy, for example, or, what could it look like to have these conversations with people you've just met and move them forward into engagements, but not feel like you're in this sort of sales mode. So we'd love to, if you're willing to share some of that, part of the journey, that's another thing that's. Consultants get tripped up on so often.

Stephen: 40:54

Yeah, absolutely. As soon as we entered into the sales portion of working together, my brain went right to car salesman. and anything that I was doing, I felt like I was being heard. a pushy car salesman. And that was a limiting belief that I also held onto. So again, a mindset shift had to happen to where now I look at it as the sales isn't even dollars. I'm going to establish a relationship with somebody that I want to continue working with over and over and over again and continue to help them and their business grow and thrive. And so when my mindset is now. I'm just going to form a meaningful relationship with somebody. All the sales stigma went away and fell to the wayside. And now just authentic Steven comes out, not salesman Steven, or I need to have on this suit and tie and whatever car salesman. If you're a car salesman, I don't mean any of it. But, but changing it from the idea of sales being this icky, bad word, negative connotation that I was applying to it. to relationship building and communicating, which I love. And so that was the huge, the huge pivot in my mind is just approaching it from a whole different mindset.

Melisa: 42:14

And Olivia, you do a lot of work with Stephen as you're preparing for different sales conversations and, presentations and solution development. we would all love to hear your perspective on how has the sales process evolved as you've been part of it as well.

Olivia: 42:32

Yeah, I think definitely the mindset of shifting away from the idea that, there's a number you're trying to get out of someone and moving more to the idea of if this is the right solution, if it's the right approach, then you're and it's the right timing for them, they're going to say yes. And not putting so much pressure on it, I guess. because I think that's the battle of being self employed is there are times when you can feel like you need to make more progress. you need to keep the momentum going and really, I think at the end of the day, it's so much more relaxing is maybe not the right word, but, it's less anxiety inducing if you think about it, like. Hey, you never know where this conversation is going to go. Maybe it's not an immediate yes today, but they like what you're saying. And they're just, you don't know what their budget looks like. You don't know what their internal dynamics look like. There are so many things that could make it just completely not about you. If somebody decides not to move forward in that moment. So I know that's something I've really worked on is trying to. Think about it in those terms, because it's sort of like, I mean, this is really old school now because everybody's online dating, right? But if you go out and meet people, in a romantic relationship sense, you might meet the cousin of a brother of somebody that's a really good fit. And like, maybe the person you met is not the person, but by getting out there and having conversations, you're making more connections where people are going to talk about you in a positive way. So it's like baking that sales function as less sales and more just into general business development to say like, Hey, it's an opportunity for us to practice and. and really hear from the industry and get some really good insight. And so we're ultimately always benefiting from that, no matter what.

Melisa: 44:37

Yeah, it's coming from the abundant mindset of, there's so many opportunities out there. I think one of the things, if this is fair, Stephen, if I misremember it, you correct me, but there was a point in time where your thought process was, no one's buying anything over the summer. Because of the cyclical nature of the business and that you're in, the industry that you're in. And then all of a sudden something sort of came out of nowhere in the middle of the summer and started debunking that idea. So, to me, you've really focused so much on just having conversations and treating it as a consultative and relationship building approach versus I need to, have this. rigid structure to land the client and so much more transactional. and you've had a lot of surprises, I think, as a result of that letting go, of being attached to any one thing and being much more, open to see what might happen as a result of the efforts you've put in.

Stephen: 45:38

Yeah, I think that's that again, a spot on. And I think Really on, on the front end of that, had those beliefs that this is what I've seen. No one wants to purchase things for construction in terms of leadership over the summertime. Cause kids are out of school. So people are on breaks and people are taking vacations. And again, that was a set of beliefs that wasn't serving me. That was also attached to that idea of sales as this icky thing that brought stress and anxiety. And when the shift happened to. Instead of it being the judgment that I had on the front end, it went to curiosity and it's what kind of relationship can I develop? Can I help identify the problem this person is even facing? Let alone once we figure out the problem, is that a problem that I can even help solve and if I'm not the person to help solve it, great, let me steer you towards a solution if I know someone or a reference, but if I still helped along the process, I still established that relationship and so now with the curiosity approach. There's all kinds of things that happen in the summertime. There's all kinds of people that I can meet. There's all kinds of opportunities. I'm curious about what next relationship or what opportunities out there. I'm not on a judgment that it can't happen. And then I'm anxious to make the phone call. So it's a big pivot all the way over.

Melisa: 46:58

Amazing. Well, as we're starting to wrap up here, tell us what is your vision for the future? What do you want to grow your business into both of you? Olivia, do you want to start?

Olivia: 47:08

Oh gosh, that's a really hard question because, I know Steven and I are both very emotionally attached to what we're trying to do. there are a lot of people in the trades that are honestly suffering. And so I think for me, the biggest thing is really getting some traction around being able to really influence some change. And, Give those people some opportunities to think about things in a little different light and have some of the experiences that Steven and I have had around personal development and really thinking about those mindset shifts. And same for you, Melissa, the way that you coach people. And it's such a fundamental life quality improvement when you have those experiences. And so as big as we can go with it, you know, speaking engagements and facilitation and coaching, it's just, we're trying to really just be very nimble and responsive right now and really trying to listen to the opportunities that are coming up and following where there's some momentum and we're not facing a bunch of resistance. So I know that's pretty general, but I feel like I don't quite have like a super defined vision at this point.

Stephen: 48:21

Yeah, I would, I would agree. it's still open. It's still adaptable. I will say this in one of our first conversations, Melissa, we talked about what is the goal for at the time, Steven Dummitt, LLC, now Tradewinds Leadership. And the goal was 250, 000 a year in revenue as a single entrepreneur. and what it's evolved to is a. Joint business with someone that I love doing business with that I love outside of business. And now we talk about it. the book that you had sent me 10x is better than 2x. So now we, talk about everything as a 2. 5 million company. And what would a 2. 5 million company do? And what I see us doing is diving more and more into the speaking engagements and the keynote speeches and bringing the awareness of what is needed globally. Probably nationally, but a global comment on the construction industry is if I can speak to more and more companies at these speaking engagements and keynotes and bring awareness to this is a problem we need to address, the more people are going to get help. Now, if I actually get hired to come in and talk to the companies, that's an added bonus. Great. I'm all for it. Sign me up. Love doing that. But if we can just spread the word bigger and bigger through speech engagements, I think we can have a bigger impact. on the industry as a whole. And so that's what I look forward to Tradewinds leadership really doing in the future.

Melisa: 49:48

I love this movement that you're building and the profound. Impact that you want to make on this industry, the construction industry, and for all of the types of workers to be able to work together in such a more cohesive and supportive and productive way. like you were just describing, the money comes from that, right? The way you focus things is so much about what is the impact that you want to make for other people and for this industry. And then the 2. 5 million business is a result of that focus. So, I just want to say thank you so much for being here. And is there anything that we haven't talked about today that you would love to cover? We covered a lot of

Stephen: 50:32

We covered a lot of ground Um, I, would say if one thing we didn't touch on a whole lot, was how we came to work with one another. And I just want to make a point out to anyone that's out there listening, potentially listening to this podcast, that's even considering getting assistance, working with a coach. It is hands down the greatest experience that I've had multiple times in life. From a personal development coach that got me from many years ago up to Six months ago when I started working with a business coach with Melissa and really having that outside perspective and someone to really challenge your thoughts and your mindsets and your beliefs can really break down those barriers that you don't realize are holding you back. So I would encourage anyone that's listening, to lean into getting that assistance to take that next step. if you're interested in consulting at all, into Melissa, she's awesome. It's been a great experience.

Melisa: 51:32

Thank you so much. I appreciate the shout out. And, to your point, generally speaking, even if, I'm not the right fit or, it's not the right kind of coaching at the moment, just the amount of, Impact that having a coach can make. I talk about coaches all the time on this, podcast too. And I have two at the moment, sometimes three right now it's such a game changer going from someone, I would love to hear your perspective too, Olivia, but when I was in corporate, I didn't ever want to show anyone. I had any like crack in the armor. and times have changed too, but, ever show that there was some need of help. And now it's the complete opposite and, just reaching out for help and whatever the form of that should look like, or needs to look like for you can be so valuable. you've talked a lot about, personal development in this, conversation today, Olivia, anything else that you want to add

Olivia: 52:24

well, I would echo what you just said that, it's really funny you bring that up because I was thinking about it the other day and I was like, you know, it's not that different from construction in that sense, and I think it's just cultural, right? It's, it feels very dangerous. To ask for help and to admit when you're having an off day even, or you're like, you know, I'm burnt out. people are really worried about saying that and understandably. So it really is a big shift in, in just acknowledging that we're all human and we have our off days. We get burnt out. We need time off. we need to remember that we're working to live, not living to work. So that's definitely the kind of the core belief that we're operating around is, really everybody deserves the dignity of going to work and feeling good about it and not, grinding through life. Like this is just so depressing.

Melisa: 53:19

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I'd want to say thank you again. I feel so honored to know both of you, to have been able to work with both of you and to see your journey and the generosity that you have to come on the show and share what you've been able to accomplish with your business and where it's headed. I know so many people will benefit from it. So thank you so much. And I will see you both

Stephen: 53:42

All right. Thank you for having us.