The one with real CX research - Nicole Kyle Managing Director CMP E169

🎤🎞️Customers, Self Service, AI, oh my! “The one with real CX research” with Nicole Kyle Managing Director CMP in CX Passport Episode 169🎧 What’s in the episode?...

CHAPTERS

0:00 Introduction

1:48 Origins of Nicole’s curiosity

4:40 Why focus on customer experience research?

7:00 More human psychology in customer experience

8:45 Why don't customers use self-service?

11:00 The 4 drivers for customer adoption of self-service

13:53 1st Class Lounge

18:26 Research factors for customer self-service

20:45 Potential pitfalls for companies and AI

27:10 Research for Employee Experience in 2024

30:11 Contact info and closing

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I'm Rick Denton and I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport

Episode resources:

Nicole LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolekyle/

CMP: https://www.cmpresearch.com/

Transcript

Nicole Kyle: 0:00

What drives customer satisfaction in self service customer experiences we went in with the hypothesis that okay of course issue resolution will come out as the number one driver turns out that hypothesis was wrong and as a researcher we love being wrong because it means that we've we've found something new and something super teachable,

Rick Denton: 0:19

Customer experience wisdom, a dash of travel talk, we've been cleared for takeoff. the best meals are served outside and require passport. Welcome back to CX passport. Today I have the pleasure of talking with Nicole Kyle, the co founder and managing director of CMP research specializing in the future of work. Her focus is on how emerging trends in work impact customer contact sales and customer experience leadership. With 11 years of experience as a future of work researcher, Nicole examined societal changes and their effects on the workplace. She appreciates the unique position of customer experience teams understanding that, well, everyone is a customer and recognizing the value CX teams bring to the broader business areas across an enterprise. Nicole's work supports executives and four critical areas fostering employee engagement, adapting to shifts and customer preferences for self service, handling essential operational management, and navigating technology and partnership decisions. Oh, and a little bonus for me anyway, as a Duke alum myself, I was delighted to find out that Nicole is a fellow Blue Devil. If only we known early enough, we could have done this during the tourney earlier in the year. So listeners and viewers, please Please forgive us if we accidentally dive into a little round ball talk. Nicole. Welcome to CX passport.

Nicole Kyle: 1:46

Thank you for having me, Rick, I'm so excited.

Rick Denton: 1:48

Let's get after this. One of the things that I love about the word research is how many times have you heard people say, you know, many will say I've researched it? When really what they mean I googled it for five minutes and watch to tiktoks. You, however have focused your career around real authentic honest to god research? Where on earth did that curiosity come from?

Nicole Kyle: 2:10

You know, I think I've been curious all my life first as a student. And then as a journalist, I think that background and journalism, which I believe you share, if memory serves really just crystallize the importance of curiosity, and how you can use it as a vehicle for learning a lot about many different things. And research is just another side of that coin, really. So I have a lot of questions about the world. And I want to find the answers. And that's what what keeps me going. And frankly, the people who Google things and watch to tiktoks They keep they keep me in business. Because after a few times of doing that, you realize you you need need something else a little bit more diligent have a framework or answer.

Rick Denton: 2:54

Oh, you can tell by my folks who are watching this and hopefully listening you may have heard that caused a real reaction. Oh, I did not expect you to say that. I love it. Hey, great. Y'all go out there and Google and watch tic TOCs. And then come to me when you want to actually get some real information, though. Nicole, unfortunately, no, I don't have much of a journalism background. And I admire those of you that do because the depth of that curiosity, that that willingness to really chew on something important in a way that is beyond Well, the average attention span of the American right now, which is what seven seconds I think and really getting into that depth. That that curiosity like did it manifest itself even like as a child, were you the one that was always asking the questions in class if you were the one asked a question, you'd be the one pivoting it back to the teacher, the students in the classroom. What what did that look like for you growing up? Yeah,

Nicole Kyle: 3:45

a lot of high marks in class participation, I suppose. A lot of questions. It's really funny. I was definitely one of those kids who asked why, why why why went through a big why phase and it basically just never ended. It's kind of funny, we do a lot of root cause analysis and the type of research we do and the crux of root cause analysis is just asking why five times so it's, it's kind of funny how those things come come full circle. But yeah, it's always always been a part of of my life. And I think like you and maybe because it's the podcast, which I love your podcast. That's why I seen the journalism background. But you are interviewing and storytelling and you know that again, I think it's just another another dimension to to that prism. So yeah, that's that's how it manifested for me.

Rick Denton: 4:31

I like to call it I used to call the five Why's the toddler approach and now I think what we need to call it as the Nicole approach because apparently you've carried the five why's for it and throughout your entire life there. And I imagine it's probably challenging for you a fellow podcaster to be on the other end as well being asked the questions rather than getting the chance to to ask them. I've had others on the show that have that journalism background. And I think that journalism background lends itself to customer experience and working with customer experience teams, and I'd mentioned in the introduction that you Do like working with customer experience teams. That's where you focus. You could research though and focus on any area in business, what is it about experience teams that really draw your interest. experienced

Nicole Kyle: 5:12

teams work with customers, which really means they work with people. And in any services business, I suppose you could argue any part of the business works with people. But I've always been so intrigued by the psychology of individuals, what prompts them to make different decisions, how we can influence their psychology or better understand individuals. And I think CX teams just do that the best. That's such the crux of the job, other functions to UX sales, of course, which is it's all related. But I also I love working with CX teams, and customer contact teams, because everyone in the world has a customer. And so many of the innovations around how to work with customers come from these teams. So it's just such a rich area of I think, really transferable knowledge. The last piece, you know, the reason I really love kind of taking Future of Work Research and making it fit for purpose for CX and customer contact is Cx and customer contact. This is a corporate function runs very differently, when you think about call centers, or when you think about the talent pool, when you think about the typical employee journey at an organization. So being able to write research that is tailored to that audience is an exciting challenge for me.

Your CX Passport Captain: 6:31

This is your captain speaking. I want to thank you for listening to CX Passport today. We’ve now reached our cruising altitude so I’ll turn that seatbelt sign off. <ding> While you’re getting comfortable, hit that Follow or Subscribe button in your favorite podcast app so you never miss an episode. I’d love it if you’d tell a friend about CX Passport and leave a review so that others can discover the show as well. Now, sit back and enjoy the rest of the episode.

Rick Denton: 6:57

I well as one who's lived in this world, I can appreciate the challenge. Anytime you're researching humans, it's messy. And then there's a challenge just in the research that you mentioned something that I want to pull out just a little bit more. And you talked about the psychology of this. And I don't I think it just want to ask your opinion just flat out? Do you think we focus on the human psychology element of customer experience enough? Or is that something that's overlooked and we could spend more time in that space? I'm

Nicole Kyle: 7:28

probably biased to say we could always spend more time in that space. But but more honestly, I think it ebbs and flows, frankly, with the the degree of cost pressure that we see x functions or companies or customer contact functions are encountering and a given business cycle. When that cost pressure is a little bit less, we we just observe as researchers, more investments into customer journey mapping more investments also into our the psychology of our employees and employee experience and leadership development. And those two things go hand in hand as the research shows. So when cost pressures up the way it is right now, we have a lot of steps on that. You understandably the the executive conversation becomes more around efficiencies and process optimizations and deploying new tech. And probably a top pitfall around New Tech or automation that we can that we can identify is when we don't factor in the psychology of our customers into that either tech purchasing decision or that pilot, because the tech is only useful and you're only going to get good ROI if your customer is actually adopted that journey. And the only way they'll adopt that journey is if it's if it's fitting out a journey that map's to the way that their brain as a customer works or the way that their preferences are set up. Okay.

Rick Denton: 8:47

Let's so that that reminds me of something. And you and I came to know each other indirectly, but I had seen you on stage at CCW Austin. And then we were able to be connected through a a mutual connection. But that's where I saw you was there at CCW Austin. And you said something there from your research that caught my attention. And it was we and you're speaking of customers, we as humans, we love self service. We don't use self service. And I have a sense that it has something to do with what we were just talking about there, the psychology but it surprised me when you set it. And so if customers say and heck, even I say I want self service, but then I don't find myself using. Why does that disconnect exist?

Nicole Kyle: 9:29

It comes back to the gap between preference and desire. And then the experience being offered to you as a customer. And what we observe in the research is precisely to that point, about 75% of customers want more control over their the way that they're served. They want to be self sufficient in the customer journey. But when you look at self service, for example, adoption rates, it's much much lower than 74 75%. And that's because that journey is painful. And at the end of the day, humans will optimize to what's easy and less painful, even if it's not their first choice, you know, just basic kind of hierarchy of needs and all that good stuff. So that's why you're seeing that disconnect. And a lot of the executives, we work with heads of customer contact heads of CX, they're really trying to fix that and improve the self service offering such that it meets the incredible demand for it. And people actually pursue that customer experience, which is a benefit to the company, but a benefit to the customer as well. How?

Rick Denton: 10:38

Okay, so I get that right. The reason I smiled earlier was even if it's not working for me, yeah, I intended to do this. But I mean, I'm one of the fastest to match the letters AG, e and t and a chat right to get as quickly to a human as possible, or to scream it into the phone, if I happen to be on the phone. I try not to screen him, I apologize. But sometimes the bots just give me that way. But let's say that I am a company, and I'm wanting to grow those self service options. And I want to do right by the customer in that vein that you're describing so that the customer is getting their needs fulfilled that it not only is it they're sort of directed to the self service, but that they would purposely choose of service and find a delightful experience inside of that self service. What are some of the best use cases that you've seen so far? What are the stories that you've seen in your work research where accompany really got this? Right?

Nicole Kyle: 11:26

Yeah, that's a great question. So we it was honestly kind of a root question for a large research initiative we did last year, one of the things we did in that initiative was a a driver analysis of from a quantitative perspective, what drives customer satisfaction in self service, customer experiences, specifically. And we tested a number of different hypothetical drivers, issue resolution, data security, like feeling like your data secure, basically, personalization, ease and speed, and other things. And we went in with the hypothesis that okay, of course, issue resolution will come out as the number one driver. Turns out that hypothesis was wrong. And as a researcher, we love being wrong, because it means that we've we've found something new and something super teachable. And what we found was personalization is the number one driver. Ease is the number two driver speed is the number three driver in issue resolution is the number four driver, and then you have a few ones after that, hmm, yeah, so you've got a difference in prioritization, when we put ourselves in and really examine that customer psychology and that customer journey in self service. Specifically, once we started to press back on a little bit, it started to make sense, essentially, what customers are doing and what their behavior shows and what they're saying and different preference data is. Having control over an experience means it's tailored to me, it's on my timeframe, it's on my schedule. And it doesn't require a lot of effort from me, as you know, I did a research around the customer effort score at the start of my career. So I've kind of always like really admired that, that train of thought. And this research supports that even further, basically saying, a customer in a self service journey, they want it to be on their terms, even if that means their issue isn't resolved right away. They want their own time input to be a matter of minutes, not a matter of waiting on the phone for an hour, even if that means their issue is resolved in two days, you know, I had to put in five minutes of work my issues, often two days, as opposed to I'm on hold for an hour. And my issue was resolved in an hour. Right? So it goes back to that, again, psychology of people and what they're valuing and how they view success in a self sufficient context.

Rick Denton: 13:53

Oh, Nicole, that's really, really cool. I'd never never would have predicted that issue. Resolution was not the number one thing when you say it, it makes sense. Because you're right, I'd rather sort of if if I know, let me wagging the finger. But if I know it's going to be successful, you're right. I could drop five minutes, and then know that it's pretty successful. I imagine that there's some difference as well into what the issue is, and what that might be with a travel related thing. And maybe there's a little there. Maybe we'll talk about that a little bit. But actually, because I said travel I want to bring us into the first class lounge it is time to take a little break here. Let's uh, let's have a little bit of fun and we'll move quickly. But we're going to have a little bit of fun here. What is a dream travel location from your past?

Nicole Kyle: 14:40

My favorite city in the world, which is London. I used to live there and I love going back any chance I get? Ooh, okay.

Rick Denton: 14:47

Now I talked to folks who are London natives. They're UK natives and they live there. I'm going to ask you a little bit extra here in a cosi. I get to be the curious one. Now. What was it like being a non native living in London, what was that experience like?

Nicole Kyle: 15:03

Moving there. From my perspective, I didn't know a lot of people moving there. It's easy to assume that because there's a shared language, the cultural assimilation will be easy. But it takes a while and in to to the Brits credit, you know, they're a little bit of an insular people. So it took me like two years to make friends at work, who weren't other ex, which is okay, and now they're friends for life, which is kind of cool. But it takes some time to adjust.

Rick Denton: 15:31

Okay, so invest in a longer time, but you've got a depth and a richness of relations so I can see why that would be a favorite place to go. I love London. I have not only been a tourist there never a resident, so I can imagine that experience was something special. What about going forward? What is the dream travel location you've not been to yet? I

Nicole Kyle: 15:48

would really like to go to Marrakech.

Rick Denton: 15:52

Okay, I am intrigued by this one. I'm intrigued by Marrakech, but why? Why there? Why you Why is that your dream travel location?

Nicole Kyle: 16:01

Well, so I've never been evident say that, or I think that was in your question. Yeah. I've never been and I, I haven't been to that part of the world. I've been to Turkey and Istanbul. But that that's it. I haven't been to Northern Africa. I think the food would be amazing. Every time I see pictures. I'm just so struck by the colors of an architecture. So yeah, so much to see. I think

Rick Denton: 16:25

the colors are you're right, that's when I think of that areas. It is it's an explosion of color is what kind of comes to mind that that would be kind of special. You mentioned food. What is a favorite thing of yours to eat chocolate

Nicole Kyle: 16:37

chip cookies, and I bake I mean, chocolate chip cookie as well. So

Rick Denton: 16:43

why on earth do I do this podcast? I could have said, hey, the price of admission is a tray of chocolate chip cookies. But if we ever find ourselves in the same place at the same time, I maybe say no. Let's try those cookies. Ooh, I'm a huge fan of the chocolate chip cookie. What about the other way to call something that you were forced to eat growing up, but you hate it as a kid? Oh.

Nicole Kyle: 17:11

Maybe like prunes.

Rick Denton: 17:15

Oh, wow. Okay, I haven't heard prunes on the show before. Okay. Forced to eat those. Yeah,

Nicole Kyle: 17:20

I did not like them. And I still don't like them.

Rick Denton: 17:24

I can see why. Oh, that's I love the uniqueness of this. Right? We're 170 episodes or whatever the number actually is. And I've not heard prunes yet. And I'm gonna say I agree with you. That would have been an awful thing to be forced. Well, Nicole, it's time for us to head back out into the real world, unfortunately. So we're going to exit the lounge here. But as we do what is one travel item not including your phone, not including your passport, you will not leave home without.

Nicole Kyle: 17:52

This is so potentially cringy. But my partner got me this little toy. stuffed bear. It's very, very small. And its name is Albert and I travel a lot for work. And I bring it on trips that my partner can come on with me and it's cute. You know, you take a picture of the bear and it's like, you know, I'm not alone. But that's what I don't leave about.

Rick Denton: 18:26

Oh, I absolutely love that answer. I get serious ones. I get books. I get I love the emotional one. I love that and I love you dropped it in that you kind of snuck it in there that you take a picture. Yeah, look, here's it. Did you say that there haven't elver? Yes, Albert? Yes. So take a picture of Alberto. I love that that actually is a really neat idea. Nicole, can we go back to what we were talking about before the first class lounge and I even started to cheat and talk about it inside the lounge. But I do want to talk about did your research show because I'm still really surprised by the issue resolution, I do get it. But I started to allude to, it might depend on the scenario of the reason for reaching out. So the one I mentioned is travel. I'm in the middle of in a cancellation. I'm stranded in Fort Lauderdale real example. And the digital solutions aren't working for me and so I'm willing to be on hold. Did your research show anything like that, that it was sort of industry specific or any sort of other segmentation specific that you saw in the factors that would drive success inside of self service? Yeah,

Nicole Kyle: 19:27

so you're absolutely absolutely right that the for different types of contacts if it's emergent, like the travel example, you cited or super high stakes and high high complexity, maybe something in healthcare or even you know, financial services sometimes then you know, issue resolution will will creep to to number one speed also kind of sticking as you know, number two or three there. But what's most interesting is that it's those types of contacts where a customer is potentially less likely to self serve. So then that kind of fell out of the analysis overall because that driver analysis was exclusively to satisfaction in a self service experience. So I suppose there was like low representation of those types of super emergent contexts in that analysis, because those do tend to be the things where people want to speak to a person, whether on chat or on the phone.

Rick Denton: 20:22

You just proved what the difference between an actual researcher and a dude who just sits and thinks is, of course, if I'm in the middle of a situation, I'm not using self serve, I'm going after a non so sort of solution that would, that would not be what was researched. I love that that little microcosm happened. This is what the differences between being an authentic researcher or a Tiktok researcher can be. Oh, I love that. Nicole, let's let's go into another area that's really hot. Right. You know, AI is all we continue to talk about. And I know AI has got a wide definition. Heck, we've been doing AI for decades, but Gen AI and all that is certainly in the more newer AI in that context centers seem to be one of that early adoption areas for business. Now, I'm curious, though, we, you talked about kind of the evolution of where the cost pressures are and orchards are how are you seeing that same input of cost pressures and org structure play into the decision making around AI in the context center? And specifically, I'm curious, are there any pitfalls that companies should really be paying attention to here?

Nicole Kyle: 21:28

Yeah, it's great, great questions. Certainly to your point, customer contact is a area that's prime for automation, because of some the repeatability the nature of a lot of the work, predictability to an extent depending on kind of what channel or type of contact you're looking at. And to your point, that's the reason customer contact and CX have kind of been leaders in automation and AI, across the business. And most most corporate organizations maybe like finance as well accounts, receivable, things like that. The the real tidal wave of enthusiasm around AI, now, you know, specifically around generative AI, is being fueled not just by the amazing innovations, and frankly, like rather fast innovation, that kind of cumulative innovations that have happened in the last eight months or so nine months, maybe a year now. But also going back to the cost per shirt piece, there's a real belief, it's about 60% of customer contact executives say that the introduction of objective AI tools will in the long term net, a reduction in frontline customer contact workforce. So there's a real belief that that's going to help us find some of those cost savings. And I think that is true. What I'm super optimistic about though, is long term, net job creation, through AI tools and generative AI tools to an organization that might not look like the same roles we have today might not be, we might not have as many agents, customer contact agents as we do now. But we might have as many jobs for the frontline, because there's people who need to manage the data, including the data people who need to work on integrating different generative AI tools, training generative AI tool that specific to their organization. So um, I like to be optimistic on that. What else can I say about AI? About 51, maybe 52% of customer contact organizations are exploring doing a pilot with generative AI right now, which is, you know, again, a testament to how quickly we're moving here. But I also like to remind people, AI has been around for a very long time spell check, spell check is AI. So this generative AI is just the next evolution of those tools. And a really interesting observation and I think something that our industry is doing quite well is more often than not piloting these generative AI tools with their own employees first. So whether that's an agent assist bot or a kind of interactive knowledge base for your agents piloting that first and then taking those learnings and working into the customer facing pilot before you know so that you can you can roll something out to the customer with as little disruption as possible, or a better product than than originally had. So I'd say that's the key to success right experiment on your own internal processes and in place first, learn some things and go from there.

Rick Denton: 24:32

Yeah, the the stories that are certainly dramatic headlines, ones of the I may not get the numbers, right. But the the dealership and Canada I think it was that ended up having to sell a vehicle for $10 because the bot suggested that and then I think there was a Canadian airline that had an issue there. So yeah, I can see the value of testing it internally. What about like a mentality of going in? If I'm a company that I'm thinking about adopting, because you actually surprise me if I heard your number, right, it was in the 50 Is that have started piling 50%, I would have expected it to be higher. And I think that shows that there's been perhaps hype and reality. But in that sense of if only 50% have so the ones that haven't, is there any sort of mentality that you'd say guard against this one or go in with this sort of appetite of this is how you can wisely extract the greatest value from AI as opposed to a fools rush in approach to AI, Gen I Gen AI and any of the technologies that are kind of vibrant right now.

Nicole Kyle: 25:32

Probably a recurrent caution I give to my clients on this is generative AI specifically, is the shiniest of the shiny tools in the toolbox right now. Good old conversational AI and good old rules based AI might be sufficient for your use case right now, you know, don't feel like you need to be a first mover on generative AI, if a conversational or rules based AI solution can work and fulfill your use case. Because a and we have the customer data to prove this. A customer doesn't really know if they're interacting with generative or rules based or conversational as long as they're getting the responses that they need. Right. Right camp, and they don't care. They're not thinking, Oh, if this company, because I think sometimes there's an overemphasis on, you know, the reputational benefit to being like a first mover with some of these technologies, we need to show our customers that we're super cool and hip. So we must have an interactive, generative thing that looks like chat, GBT, which our customers using their personal lives, you don't need that. You just need an automated solution to get people to their, you know, resolution and a personalized, easy and fast way. So that's one word of caution, I suppose. Yeah.

Rick Denton: 26:44

I like that word. That's not one that I've heard a lot, not just inside of CX passport, but just conversationally amongst our LinkedIn communities. I like that as sort of a hey, you don't have to have the shiny tool, because guess what your customer doesn't care and designing your solution around what your customer cares about. And I think a lot of it goes back to the four principles that you described earlier, as well, of understanding what your customer cares about. You did mention, and I think we can close out in this space, I want to talk a little bit about employee experience, because you did mention that while you see that there will be cost reduction because of the type of agent role that exists today, you think that there will be the same job or the same number of jobs in the future? I think in general, though, Gen AI and these technologies scare a lot of employees and Gen AI and technologies excite a lot of employees. So from a research perspective, what is what does this shown you around employee experience, and technology and in general overall for 2024. When it comes to employee experience, one of

Nicole Kyle: 27:49

the best links between the capability of specifically generative AI but even other AI tools, and employee experience is our employees on the frontline of customer contact and CX right now are more burnt out than they've ever been the rates of dealing with frustrated customers, customers who are swearing at you using profanity or yelling at you over the phone over chat even you know, it's it's high and for a lot of different reasons. So an automation solution, something that can take those contacts off the desk or just reduce contact volume overall, so that you as the employees reporting live contacts have more energy to deal with that frustrated customer. That's a real win. So this is this is all to say, framing up these generative AI pilots as a tool to help reduce your frontline employees burn burnout is a really great way to get people excited about the tool. And also really teaching your frontline that the tool is especially if you're running that pilot, again on the employee side is a resource for them a way for them to do their job better and get to answers faster, and feel more supported. Especially in a world where direct managers, frontline supervisors, team leads are also super taxed and need a little help supporting the team. So I think I think the tools and frame that light can be really beneficial to employee experience.

Rick Denton: 29:17

I'm one I love that Nicole like I could stop down on that. I'm gonna add an add to that. And I'm encouraged to hear that you're not the only voice saying that and I think that's I'm grossly simplifying this, but it feels like over the last few let's call it kind of that three to four month range. I feel like I'm hearing that message more I'm hearing more of that message rather than just the Yeah, we get to save costs it'd be more efficient and that's good businesses are in this for profit, right you know, if you're not profit of course, but the for profit. There's a reason why you want to reduce costs. But this change towards right but agents directors, this is going to make your life better. We're going to reduce stress and all the things that you just said there Nicole I I think that's a really it's an important message and I'm glad to hear that. Hear it more often and hear that coming out clearer and clearer I look what's in there I kind of like on that happier positive note. Nicola folks wanted to get to know a little bit more about you, your your, the research that you do the future of work, research CMP. anything along those lines, what's the best way for folks to learn more

Nicole Kyle: 30:22

head to CMP research.com. We run monthly free webinars for anyone who wants to register. So we'd love to see you at next month's webinar. And you can find that on CMP research.com. You can follow me on LinkedIn as well Nicole Kyle on LinkedIn. And maybe we'll see you at one of our one of CMPs future customer contact Week events would love to see everyone in person.

Rick Denton: 30:46

That's awesome. And I can certainly vouch for it. It's a great place to meet faces and people that you had not known before. It was nice, Nicole, I enjoyed this. I enjoy this journey from the joking as of right you know what real research is? Right? As opposed to what a lot of folks think research is that depth that curiosity that sense of that all the way going into AI and then closing out with Okay, but how can we make this right for the employees, the humans that are creating the backbone of what accompany actually is this was a delight and I came away learning something I know that the listeners and viewers have as well Nicole, thank you for being on CX passport. Thank

Nicole Kyle: 31:20

you for having me, and they'll do.

Rick Denton: 31:27

Thanks for joining us this week on CX Passport. If you liked today’s episode I have 3 quick next steps for you Click subscribe on the CX Passport youtube channel or your favorite podcast app Next leave a comment below the video or a review in your favorite podcast app so others can find and and enjoy CX Passport too Then, head over to cxpassport.com website for show notes and resources that can help you create tangible business results by delivering great customer experience. Until next time, I’m Rick Denton and I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport.