EPISODE 28: Going for his degree in Canada - navigating fit and support in a different system

Gerry Campbell is working his way towards a bachelor's degree at Lethbridge University in Alberta with wit and determination. A little more than a decade ago, when Gerry was in high school, Canadian students on the spectrum were segregated into special ed classes and left high school with a certificate, with no option for a diploma. But Gerry wanted more and enrolled first in Lethbridge College in Alberta where he could start chipping away at required courses for college entry to bring his basic skills in English and math up so he could find success in college. Along the way, professors have helped him with study strategies and even with the transition to a four-year university this fall. He has enjoyed a lot of academic success. Gerry is a huge history buff and a rugby player, he served on the student council, and he's a guy with a loom who has made dozens of peace and reconciliation scarves for indigenous classmates. Gerry has been on this path towards his bachelor's degree for about 8 years. He loves learning, the community, and sharing his story in hopes of inspiring others.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:08

Now that I'm genuinely enjoying my social life at Hamilton, I'm more incentivized to actually be social.

SPEAKER_06 0:15

Having autism isn't something that should prevent people from having a successful college experience. It takes work.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

Join clubs, find groups, find your people, find ways to fit in, see a peer mentor, see somebody who can help you get involved on campus.

SPEAKER_03 0:32

There were a lot of black children on the spectrum who were also deaf. She's not the first one.

SPEAKER_04 0:36

I researched all of the majors and then I eliminated the ones that sounded not interesting to me. So then I changed it to chemical engineering to work with chemistry. Then I took an environmental science class and I'm like, I think environmental issues are really important, and I'm really passionate about sustainability and stuff. So then I changed it to finally environmental engineering.

SPEAKER_07 0:56

Especially in a college town like OutdoorDash. Like, just go out and get the food. That's good exercise.

SPEAKER_08 1:08

Hey everyone! Thanks for joining us on this episode of Autism Goes to College, the podcast for students on the spectrum and for everyone who supports us. Navigating college is always a challenge, so here are the hacks, insights, and great ideas you've been looking for to make college work for you. We're a small group of self-advocates. We're all in college or recently graduated, and you can do this too.

SPEAKER_02 1:37

Hello. Thanks for listening to our podcast, Autism Goes to College. I'm Jerry Campbell Greer, and I'm working towards my bachelor's degree at the University of Lethbridge in Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada. My path to college and in college has been a windy road, and I have successfully navigated all of it. One thing I've learned along the way is that study skills are critical to both learning and managing stress. On this episode, I'll share some of my study strategies and my story so far. I'm here with Catherine O'Brien, the new host of the Autism Goes to College podcast, and I'm gonna hand it over to her.

SPEAKER_05 2:35

Hey everyone. Eric Linthorse directed the film, and it premiered at the Newport Beach Film Festival in 2019, and was also selected to screen at South by Southwest EDU in 2020, which of course happened online. At the end of this episode, I'll give you some details about where you can see the film today. And it's all at our website, autismgoes to college.org. So, with screenings limited since the pandemic began, the team wanted to open up the conversation and created this podcast. The first five episodes featured the stars of the film, talking in more depth about their college experiences and what they are up to now. And since then, we've talked to students on the spectrum all over the map sharing all kinds of experiences, working towards degrees and certificates around the country, plus a college counselor, parent perspectives, and admissions officers. Every month we drop a new episode. Here's what's also new: there's a resource center on our website with dozens of outtakes of important stuff that didn't quite make it into the film, all of the podcast episodes, and blogs from experts and from student advisors from the film. Fun fact: this project was recognized as best of the internet in 2022 by the Webby Awards Anthem Awards, winning gold for diversity, equity, and inclusion. And we keep making it better. This podcast is here for us to share and open up the conversation and include more insights from self-advocates on the spectrum. Same with the Resource Center. So reach out if you'd like to get involved or have ideas for us. Let us know what would make it more meaningful and valuable, or what you'd like to contribute. And thanks for listening. We do hope to hear from you. Now. Today my guest is Jerry Campbell. So at the time you graduated, Canada was only granting certificates to students on the spectrum who completed high school. But you were determined to go to college and you did it. And you're here to tell us how and how you're doing now in Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada.

SPEAKER_02 4:58

It's actually been a pretty awesome ride in the long term. Um a little rocky starting off because of how I did in my grades, which wasn't that great, obviously. Um, but from 2015 up until 2018, um, I almost thought my college journey was gonna be over before it really took off.

SPEAKER_05 5:26

So let's get into how that all played out. So let's start with your path to college. You went to two different high schools in Canada because your mom's in the military and your family moved. Can you tell me a bit about that?

SPEAKER_02 5:43

From 2002 to 2006, I lived in Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan. Uh, it's just uh east of Alberta here. Um, but I didn't graduate high school in Moose Jaw, which I was there from 2003 till 2006 for high school. And I basically um did from grades 9 to 11 at the same high school, and I completed grade 12 in um uh Sturgic Comp in Nameo, uh just north of Edmonton, our provincial capital. And basically, it was difficult at first because um I started really enjoying football, um the Canadian version, um the American one came later. It's basically the same sport as you guys have, but but ours is a little older.

SPEAKER_05 6:50

Did you did you play for a team in high school? It says you said you got into playing.

SPEAKER_02 6:56

Uh no, I never played for a high school team. I was more interested in the game, so I watched it more on TV as opposed to actually playing. I did play rugby with a rec league team here in Lethbridge, but I ended up giving that up uh when the pandemic started.

SPEAKER_05 7:16

Circling back to high school though, Jerry, what were your classes like? What was high school like for you? Do you feel like it prepped you for college?

SPEAKER_02 7:25

Uh it didn't prep me really for college at all. It just taught me basic life skills like how to manage my money, transit, um as well as managing my budget. And beyond that, um they did teach basic mathematics and English skills, but beyond that, uh, they weren't teaching us anything to prepare us for post-secondary. And that was at the time, and that was and they didn't change the how the system is until in the last decade when kids that were on the spectrum could actually go to school for credit and earn a a diploma uh in high school so they could potentially go to college or university.

SPEAKER_05 8:28

So it sounds like the old certificate system it really kept students on the spectrum out of college and kind of created almost second-class citizens. Um how did you overcome that?

SPEAKER_02 8:43

Well, I it took me from the when we went on our last move in 2008 to when we eventually moved here in Lessbridge in 2000, I mean in 2012. That um at first I was attending basically a program here that was for people on the spectrum that was basically just reinforcing what I already learned. They didn't really give me the same opportunities um uh to really expand myself as a person. They tried to keep me basically in a um a box, pretty much, um, and it wasn't until early 2015 that I would that things really snowballed into the direction they were going. And when I auditioned for a play in at the university called Unlimited. That and that was the name of the play, and it was a mixability play with people on the spectrum and people who are neurotypical, and um I was actually one of six people on the spectrum in the play, and it was awesome and all that, but right around that time I was I decided and to apply to go to the college uh for university college prep. And within, I think about a month or so, I found out I got accepted, and and after that I was there from like fall of 2015 till uh the winter term of 2018 in the that program, and it was actually during the the winter term I found out I qualified to go into the general studies program, and basically I applied, got accepted in my first shot, um, but in between 2015 and 2018 it was a little bit rocky because I didn't really have the strong study skills that I do now, and basically I was struggling trying to understand even the most basic stuff, and but what really got me was the gray areas in English. I still struggle with the grays, but I'm getting better about it. Um basically when I started building connections, not just with um fellow students, but also the LCSA or Lethbridge College Student Association, that things I got a little more comfortable, I became less socially awkward, of course, gradually, of course, and then I um didn't really turn things around until fall of 2017 into the uh winter of 2018 when I got like a C plus, which um I did that was awesome when I got that in my one reading course, and then when I went into Engl my last English class, I was better prepared this that time around to understand the material, and luckily it was one of the same professors I had before teaching at the time, and um I started getting a lot of B's, and then by the time I finished that course, I ended up getting a B plus, and then when I went into the general studies program the following school year, I got like B's, C's, and some coursework, but when it it was Western Civ, the course, the history course, I got in a solid A.

SPEAKER_05 13:10

I want to go back and talk a little bit about the university college prep program. You said um it was hard at first, and then there was that um moment where you got the C and then you started getting B's in your next class. So what were you learning and what study skills did you end up developing that led to that success?

SPEAKER_02 13:34

In regards to um, I was already starting to develop some of the study skills I have now by the last class. Um I still struggled, obviously, like any student does. But um and rather than beating myself up over it and just doing the same level of not really studying as hard, um, when I went into my last university college prep uh course, um I basically um was like, where did I work well and where do I need to improve? And part of that coursework and that last course was um learning how to write flashcards, uh reading articles and writing the key terms that we um had to use, and then we also learned the structure of paragraphs and essays. And in that time while I was in the um at the college, I also learned how to greet people in their mother language because I knew how it felt to be excluded from a lot of stuff. I was actually excluded from playing on teams based on the fact that I had aspergers, or just because I was different from the rest of the kids. I took that and learned how to greet people in their mother language. So I learned how to greet people in Arabic, French, um Hindi, uh even um in Punjabi.

unknown 15:31

I see.

SPEAKER_02 15:32

And I even of course Spanish, obviously, which I already knew that, and Portuguese and Chinese well, Mandarin, um so in other words, Chinese. Yeah, and then by coincidence, and I didn't realize this in the short term, and I didn't realize until right up till I graduated that I was trying to be positive, spreading that all over, and even trying to encourage other students that they are awesome, that they got this, I believe in them. That's so basically it's being like their cheerleader in a sense. And mom and I saw some of the comments on um the L I think the LCSA or the college Facebook page, I can't remember which. Um basically one of the people that commented um mentioned one time they were struggling with um what they were studying, and that I walked up one day noticing them, and I was making sure that they were okay and that I believe in them and that they're gonna do well, and that just made their day apparently.

SPEAKER_05 16:53

That's wonderful. So it sounds like you're really active in campus life. Can you tell me a little bit more about what you do on campus? Um, aside from spreading positivity, which I think is so beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 17:07

Um, well, obviously being me. I also try and walk around getting to just saying hi, getting to know people, and still trying to continue that in encouragement at the uni. And I added um a very interesting project this last school year that really turned things around for some people, and it was um Truth and Reconciliation project that I did. But I asked, and this uh actually didn't I before I mentioned what I did prior to actually doing it, I took what is called Indigenous Studies at the college at the same time as taking international relations, got on the honor for both those courses in the same term. Um but basically I was learning like the negative impacts that we make both Canada and unfortunately the US had on the indigenous communities and um and um basically the long-term effects basically and I wanted it because it was close to around reconciliation, I wanted to do something to kind of give back to the um FNMI community or First Nations Metis and Inuit. Um and I basically talked to my professor in that course who happened to be indigenous, as well as some of the other stuff, and I asked if it was okay if I did a truth and reconciliation project for next school year, and they said sure. And I of course asked what colors are appropriate for me to use a course with encouragement from my mom. Um I also um uh we got and I didn't know how many to make, so I was I'm gonna make like 15 or something like that, but we made sure to look, and the number four is the of the biggest importance in their culture. So I made 16 truth and reconciliation scarves on a hand crank loom, but it was circular, and the colors that were appropriate for me to use, because I was using colors of the medicine wheel, which are red, black, yellow, and white. Um, each one of those parts of the medicine wheel represent a different season, um, stages of life, um, as well as the resources available at that time of year. And then um I also use orange for uh reconciliation and blue for the May T. And um and I use the circular loom purposefully because there's the importance of cyclical time and um basically I designed the scars myself and I tried to make them balanced because a balance in nature is a huge importance to their culture, and um basically it took me three solid months uh to make sixteen of the reconciliation scares. I ended up finishing the last four in one day, and I didn't do knitting for a good month after that.

SPEAKER_05 21:06

Wow. So I gather that you are a history buff based on the classes you were taking and the studies you've engaged in. Can you tell me a little bit more about uh your classes and your major?

SPEAKER_02 21:23

I didn't really start taking history classes until the college. Uh between um grades eight to twelve, and even up till I went to the general studies program, I was watching history documentaries mostly on the Middle Ages, and also um uh documentaries on American history and no shocker, Canadian history, because they're heavily tied into our history is. Just as tied into American history as yours is to ours. And the funny thing is, um, I found out that over 50,000 Canadians fought in the Civil War.

SPEAKER_05 22:16

Let's talk study skills for those history courses you've taken and are planning on taking. You're making great grades now and you have your two-year degree. What are the study skills you're using that other students can learn from?

SPEAKER_02 22:31

Well, basically what I did to kind of help me start paying more attention. I used the skills I built up in my last unic college university prep course. So I read my chap the chapters in the textbook. I highlighted key terms in one color, uh supporting information in another color. Uh then I also wrote some notes to kind of help pay more attention. Instead of reading the whole chapter in one day, I took the the chapter, had a more realistic goal at reading maybe 10 to 15 pages, and broke that up over days rather than reading all of it in one day, because that would affect my grades heavily if I crammed. I still did reasonably well in my courses, but I found after a while it was just more of a headache, and I didn't want that.

SPEAKER_05 23:42

Yeah. So I want to touch on your living situation. Did you live you live at home with your mom while you went to classes?

SPEAKER_02 23:50

I I do, but I have my own suite, which I just call it my apartment.

unknown 23:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:57

And it has basically what I need, and best part is because of my mom being the amazing person that she is, uh, she uh gives me a decent rent, which covers not just my uh my basic rent, but also my phone, electrical, water, gas, internet. It's because we have an assisted income system here, so that's what I have for my uh money.

unknown 24:32

I see.

SPEAKER_02 24:32

And I don't have a job because if I tried to have a job and study, it would be much more stressful for me to do. Um, and I can only earn up to a certain amount before my uh earnings would affect my assisted income. Um so I just concentrate on studying.

SPEAKER_05 24:57

That's wise, and I'm glad you're able to do that. How do you how do you get yourself to school? And I also wonder, do you cook in your apartment?

SPEAKER_02 25:08

Um I don't cook as often as I would like. We share our resources because of how our financial situation and economic uh situation is right now in Canada, which it's not the greatest, but um we basically share resources um and um and sometimes we even um equally share cooking responsibilities. Um and then um I barbecue and I even make my own barbecue sauce from scratch, which I can't sell because I don't make in a commercial kitchen, but people love it. I even now make it vegan friendly.

SPEAKER_05 25:56

Oh cool. And how are you getting around uh in your neighborhood or to school?

SPEAKER_02 26:04

Well, no on my day-to-day stuff when I'm not going to school, I walk. And in regards to getting to and from school, when I'm going to school now, my mom drives me to school and she gets me there early enough so I can like de-stress, uh, be more comfortable, have a quick bite to eat, and get to my classes. Um, because I go with the mentality if you're on time, sorry, if you're early, you're on time, but if you're on time, you're late. So that because that's basically the way mom did things in the military. Um, but when I go home from school, I take the bus that gets me from there to one neighborhood, but in order to get to my neighborhood, I have to take a shuttle or like a little van that drives me directly to my house. And sometimes it takes like anywhere from five to minutes to about half an hour, sometimes forty-five minutes. That depends on how in demand they are.

SPEAKER_05 27:22

Yeah, I can see why you wouldn't want to do that when you're getting to school, because that could really impact how early you're able to be. Um, so you've completed Lethbridge College and graduated with a two-year degree. Uh, congratulations.

SPEAKER_02 27:39

Thank you. Of course, it took me f five years.

SPEAKER_05 27:42

You know, that makes it to me all the more impressive that you were tenacious and you stuck it out. So now you're embarking on a new program at Lethbridge University for the bachelor's degree.

SPEAKER_02 27:58

A Bachelor of Arts with a major in history.

SPEAKER_05 28:02

Very cool. And I understand that Lethbridge University is a separate campus with new professors, so a lot of change. Um, how is the transition going?

SPEAKER_02 28:14

Well, I'm actually getting mostly A's already, and I'm actually taking archaeology, like the intro to archaeology at the university, and my professors at the college helped me make decisions of which courses to take, basically. Um, I did my first exam in archaeology and I got a 70 overall on it. I actually found out there were some minor areas I struggled on, but I got like a 35 out of 50. So that's a pretty decent mark. And now I have a Spanish exam coming up next week. Basically, I was supposed to be an intermediate level Spanish, but the professor for that course noticed I was struggling with my tenses, and he recommended that I take a lower level Spanish. And um, coincidentally, I met that same the professor for a lower level Spanish, so I can get more proficient in my tenses, and I now have a professor who's helping me understand the material. And a lot of the and the quizzes we have to do in the course are in this textbook here. Um, they're also online, but as I go along in those quizzes, I actually write in my textbook, so then that way when it comes time to review for Spanish, um, I have that those tools right there ready to go.

SPEAKER_05 29:52

That's awesome. So it sounds like you have really supportive professors who care about you and want to help you succeed. So what pacing plan do you have for your degree? Do you know when you might be graduating?

SPEAKER_02 30:10

I um did talk with an academic advisor. Um, they told me that I needed seven courses for my basic requirements and seven other courses, including five histories, three to four thousands, and two other courses, which I'm gonna have to double check on, but I already decided one of my three thousands I want to take at the university, and when I get to that point, of course.

SPEAKER_05 30:47

Is there any advice that you have for other students on the spectrum navigating college?

SPEAKER_02 30:55

Well, first off, definitely check that uh video I did for convocation. Um, because that all that's for anyone. I would also say let your freak flag fly. Well, as my mom says, be you, find what works for you in paying attention, and also break up your reading in chunks like I uh chunks and highlight. And if you uh want to go to college or university, but people say you sh you should just you're okay in your current situation, and honestly, if it's what you want to do, go for it.

SPEAKER_05 31:42

I think we'll wrap it there. Thank you so much, Jerry, for sharing your journey with us on Autism Goes to College.

SPEAKER_02 31:50

For everyone else there, I want to say thank you for your patience. Be fabulous, which I can tell you already are, and um don't let anyone knock yourself down.

SPEAKER_05 32:03

So that is our show for today. Thank you so much for listening, for following us on Instagram and Facebook, and thank you especially for adding your reviews on Apple Podcast. Our show is very specifically for students on the spectrum navigating college, and we appreciate your appreciation for Autism Goes to College. Now, as promised from the top, here are the ways to see the film. The documentary film Autism Goes to College is currently available through many channels, but the easiest way to see it today is to rent it on Vimeo on Demand, which you can access from your Apple TV or most other smart TVs by going to the Vimeo on Demand app. You can find a link on our website at www.autismgoes to college.org. The film is also available for educational use and for live and hybrid screening events. All the relevant info and links can be found on our website. Don't forget, please follow us on Instagram to stay current, and consider joining our vibrant community on Facebook. Thank you for listening.

SPEAKER_08 33:20

Hey, thanks for listening to Autism Goes to College. We'd love to hear from you about what you'd like to hear more about. You can find us on Instagram and Twitter at Autism Goes to College. Hit us up with your thoughts. Tell us what's going on in your campus and in your college life. To see the documentary film or set up a screening, check us out at our website at AutismGoesToCollege.org.