EP 175 The Power of Craniosacral Therapy in Postpartum and Beyond with Dr. Trina Winner

Are you ready to unlock your healing potential and embrace a holistic approach to postpartum recovery?

In this episode, we delve into a groundbreaking therapy that addresses both physical and emotional traumas stored in your body's fascia system. Imagine transforming your postpartum experience with a gentle, hands-on approach that optimizes your body’s natural healing abilities. Intrigued? You should be!

Why Listen?

• Heal Holistically: Discover how craniosacral therapy can offer profound relief by addressing the interconnectedness of your craniosacral system and fascia.
• Embrace Emotional Wellness: Learn how this therapy integrates emotional and spiritual aspects, promoting overall well-being during the crucial postpartum period.
• Practical Tips: Get actionable insights on how to nourish, hydrate, and manage stress to complement your healing journey.

What's In It For You?

Whether you're navigating postpartum recovery or supporting a loved one, this episode provides essential tools and truths for healing. You'll walk away with a deeper understanding of how to optimize the flow of cerebral spinal fluid and tackle fascial restrictions, offering immense relief and promoting holistic wellness.

Meet Our Guest Expert

Join our conversation with Dr. Trina Winner, a physical therapist specializing in women's health and pediatrics. Dr. Winner shares her extensive knowledge on craniosacral and craniosacral fascial therapy, shedding light on their transformative impact on holistic healing. Her approach goes beyond traditional methods, integrating emotional and spiritual wellness into physical therapy.

You can find Dr. Trina on her website here.

Key Takeaways

• Optimizing Postpartum Recovery: Explore how craniosacral therapy can significantly enhance your postpartum journey, providing gentle yet effective relief.
• Integrative Health: Understand the importance of considering lifestyle and environment in therapy, ensuring a comprehensive approach to maternal health.
• Universal Wellness: Reconnect with nature, nourish your body with healthy foods, and embrace practices like prayer or meditation to support your healing process.

Tune In Now

Don’t miss this essential episode packed with crucial health information and practical advice. Visit www.postpartumu.com for more details and join us next week for more empowering content. If you found today’s episode helpful, please leave a review and share your thoughts. Your feedback helps us reach more listeners and refine our content. Thank you for your support!

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Chapters

• 0:02 Holistic Healing Through Craniosacral Therapy
• 8:23 Craniosacral Therapy for Postpartum Healing
• 17:12 Spiritual Healing in Holistic Wellness
• 20:28 Healing Through Spiritual and Holistic Wellness
• 31:04 The Power of Postpartum Healing

Transcript

Maranda: 0:02

Depression, anxiety and autoimmune symptoms after birth is not how it's supposed to be. There is a much better way and I'm here to show you how to do just that. Hey, my friend, I'm Miranda Bauer, a mother to four kids and a biology student turned scientist obsessed with changing the world through postpartum care. Join us as we talk to mothers and the providers who serve them and getting evidence-based information that actually supports the mind, body and soul in the years after birth. Hey, everyone, welcome to our integrative therapies talk session. I'm so excited to get into this with you because I have had the privilege of doing cranial sacral work in my life. I have had my children do cranial sacral, especially right after the birth of them, and it's just been such a huge component to our health and healing.

Maranda: 1:00

And I have today Trina Winner. She is a doctor of physical therapy and owner of the Nest Holistic Wellness, which is an extension of Winning Edge Physical Therapy, and she focuses solely on women's health and pediatrics. She has an extreme passion for helping others reach their fullest potential through comprehensive and holistic wellness programs which improve the mind, body and spirit, and we're going to get into that conversation here very soon. But Dr Winner has advanced training in women's pelvic health, fertility, as well as pediatrics, craniosacral therapy, craniosacral facial therapy, which is a little bit different tethered oral issues. She is just an absolute, just powerhouse of information and I am so excited to have her. So thank you, trina, for being here with us today.

Dr. Trina: 1:52

Well, thank you for having me. I'm really excited about this. This is definitely a passion of mine, and it's exciting just to like be on a talk with you too, because I felt a lot of what you do and I know you're passionate in this realm of world and I'm really excited. Yes, yes.

Maranda: 2:07

So tell us a little bit about what craniosacral therapy is.

Dr. Trina: 2:13

Yeah, so I have training in craniosacral therapy, which is, um, I studied through the Obledger Institute and that's really working on the craniosacral system. And then more recently I went on to more another training called craniosacral fascial therapy. And that is something that I've had on my heart for many years and just praying and discerning like, all right, god, what is your path for me? And this course came up. I've been kind of looking at it from afar. I'm like, ok, it's expensive, it's, you know, six days of training. How can I do this? I have kids at home. And so I ended up going to the course anyways and we it made, it made it work out, and that there in itself has been like just such a really integral piece in the work that I do. And then the craniosacral fascial therapy is a blend. So it was developed by Barry DeLepsy and it's based on the cranial sacral system and the fascia system and it's saying how they are not separate but they are interconnected. And the CFT blends both of the cranial sacral therapy as well as myofascial release. So that's where you get that fascial name in the craniosacral fascial therapy and what I have found.

Dr. Trina: 3:31

When I was doing craniosacral therapy I just felt as a physical therapist, I was missing something.

Dr. Trina: 3:35

There was a key piece that I was missing and you know learning more about the fascia system, which is your body's connective tissue and it really provides a framework that supports your body and it protects the muscles, the organs.

Dr. Trina: 3:43

And it really provides a framework that supports your body and it protects the muscles, the organs and it really is just a web of tissue found throughout the body, similar to if you open up an orange, peel an orange and all the white stuff that's in the orange and that's what I kind of explained to my patients about that and it really performs, you know, supports our body, you know, inside and out, and really helps protect it.

Dr. Trina: 4:05

Well, what happens is sometimes, from birth through adulthood, we experienced different traumas that can have a lasting effect on our health and vitality. And then, you know, those traumas then can lead to chronic conditions and that fascia system holds onto that trauma, whether it's from a physical perspective, an emotional perspective. You know all of those things are so intertwined and what I find in a lot of chronic conditions, people are missing the key emotional, you know, mind, body, spirit. We're missing that key emotional and spirit piece that can really unlock people's potential to healing and so, really, you know, diving into that fascist system in combination with the craniosacral therapy has been so, so amazing with the work that I do.

Maranda: 4:53

I have to share with you a story.

Maranda: 4:54

A couple of years ago I think it was like 20, the end of 2020, which was a terrible year for everybody but I ended up getting into a horse accident.

Maranda: 5:04

I was thrown from a horse and I had hit the back of a trailer and I had bruised ribs and bruised internal things going on Like I. It took me over a year to recover just my knee alone from walking, and one of the ways in which I had to pursue my health and to help my body heal was through facial therapy. And I remember walking into her office and she was like, okay, here's what we're going to do, and it was like it feels like massage almost in some regard. But she was like you know what, if you have visions and memories, like sometimes they will come through, sometimes your body will react and like jolt off the table or whatever, because we're touching upon those imprints, those cellular memories, and it was just mind blowing to me the entire experience. But she was accurate and that's exactly what happened and it really did help my body calm and and heal. So I appreciate you sharing that and and I'm still curious, like, what is the craniosacral system? Like I understand the craniosacral kind of therapy, but what is? What is a system?

Dr. Trina: 6:20

So the craniosacral system is you have your brain and you have your spinal cord and you have cerebral spinal fluid that surrounds that, that those organs right and those body parts and the cerebral spinal fluid moves kind of in like a wave-like motion. Like a wave-like motion and so when there's any type of trauma or stress or you know, fascial restrictions on the body, that fluid doesn't necessarily move like it should. And when we don't have movement of the fluid then we're not getting optimal, you know, signals to the brain and to the spinal cord and to the nerve endings and the blood vessels that supply the rest of our body. And so you know, with this just gentle, hands-on approach to look at that craniosacral system, we're really kind of evaluating that movement of the cerebral spinal fluid and we're really trying to free up the meninges and free up any restrictions through that central body, because we again we want that cerebral spinal fluid to move.

Dr. Trina: 7:27

You know, if our brain is not getting the fluid and not getting the oxygen and the nutrients, the brain can't operate and fire like it's supposed to for the rest of your body, for your organs, for your muscles. So you can just imagine, you know, when your brain's not firing and getting the nutrients that it's supposed to, brain's not firing and getting the nutrients that it's supposed to, then how just that chronic nature can really wreak havoc on our body. And you know we can lead into anything from. You know any typical chronic diseases. You know you have diabetes, you have heart disease, all those basic things, but then you have also musculoskeletal, digestive issues, any respiratory issues, heart issues, things like that. So you know the craniosacral therapy techniques have really been shown to help not only the physical components of the body but also any somatic conditions with, you know, post-traumatic stress and depression and anxiety. That's amazing.

Maranda: 8:23

How does craniosacral therapy work? If somebody were to come see you? What does the process look like? And in particular, in the postpartum period?

Dr. Trina: 8:33

So when I have a mom come in, if we're talking specifically postpartum and postpartum is from day one through many, many, many, many years Anybody that's had a kid is postpartum. So I never want people to forget that because even if you're 60 years old and you've had three kids, like you're still postpartum. And the way that you nourish your body, preconception through pregnancy, the labor process, the birth process, how you nurtured your baby that all plays a very integral role of what kind of things you might be experiencing, you know, 30, 40, 50 years later. And so when a mom comes in to see me, I really spend a lot of time taking a very thorough history. It's not really just go lay on the table and put my hands on you Like I really want to gain a little bit of history of her as well. Maybe not everybody operates that way, but as a physical therapist like I'm, really I've been trained to really take an in-depth history and a lot of times I'm asking you know, you know back to their childhood if they remember and any major accidents. You know what was preconception Like, what were your labor and deliveries, like you know. Obviously I'm asking them what are you here for today? What do you want to work on, what kind of symptoms are you having? But once we're done with that, I just have them lay on the table and I really just start with just some nice gentle, deep breathing, just kind of assessing what is their breath pattern like, because the way that this person is breathing on the table really tells me a lot of information of what their nervous system is doing and then putting my hands on them, very gentle it's about five grams of pressure, so it's super gentle. It's not like a deep tissue massage by any means, it's super gentle. Many people wonder like what are you doing? Like are you doing anything and really helping their bodies? Just get in this deep relaxation.

Dr. Trina: 10:21

So first really evaluating the, the, the cerebral or the craniosacral system, so kind of feeling what that, that cerebral spinal fluid is doing, and then measuring it's called a brain cycle and that's more of a CFT modality or a technique and we're measuring to see what is the emotion of the brain and expansion and contraction. So as fluid moves through that craniosacral system, our brains slowly expand and slowly contract, which helps optimize the flow of this cerebral spinal fluid. And if there's any restrictions or damage, this motion can greatly affect your health and well-being. So it's said like if somebody has a zero brain cycle they usually have a lot of health conditions. The more smooth and expansion and contraction that we see of the brain cycle, then usually that signifies a more health and vitality. Like, what does that feel like? Everybody always questions their hands, but you really need to just trust your hands and trust what the body is telling you.

Dr. Trina: 11:29

I do a lot of prayer with the work that I do, really just praying for the Holy Spirit just to work through me and to speak to me of what this person particularly needs. And then I just work from head to toe. I work a whole body approach, working on the fascia system from head to toe. And you know they might be coming in for, say, neck pain, but really some of those fascial restraints and restrictions could be coming from their sacrum or their left hip and my hands. You know I might end up guiding. They're like wait, it's my neck, not my hip. Why are you working so much down here and our body?

Dr. Trina: 12:03

If you just think of that fascia system, it's just so amazing that you know we have this intertwine of the fascia and if we have a strain down here at the hip, it really plays a role of throughout the entire body, from head to toe, of where those restrictions are. And so when you're working on gently unwinding and releasing any accumulated fascial strains, it really allows for optimal mobility and better brain function. And so when that craniosacral system is more free and it's more open to the free flow of the fluid, it helps to really nourish our body and cleanse the toxins. Some people move a lot on the table and have a lot of emotional release and some people don't at all, and that doesn't really say like, oh, the people who move more benefit more. Not necessarily.

Dr. Trina: 12:48

Every single person's different in their stage of life and you know what kind of work they've had done on their bodies already, and so everybody's different and people are like, well, how many treatments do I need? What's my prognosis? And it's really hard to just really tell and it's really important to highlight. You know what is your environment like when you leave here. Are you going back to a very stressful job? Are you going back to a stressful household? Are you not nourishing your body with really good food and hydration? Because if you're doing all of those things and not necessarily really taking care of nourishing your body, we can't really expect this hands-on work to really make some really profound results. It definitely can help, but I'm really doing a lot of education on what their current lifestyle is like and helping guide them too.

Maranda: 13:36

I am so grateful for you for not only the work that you're doing, but for also just sharing that piece of information. Like you can go do all of this work, but if you're going home into a stress environment and you're not caring for yourself and the basic fundamental needs, then it's not going to help in the way in which it could. Hey, I'm going to be a hundred percent straight with you. The postpartum world is changing right now and I know you feel it. It's in the politics, our community spaces. There is an urgent need to implement a different approach to postpartum health. If you're an alternative provider or postpartum advocate, you need to be with us in the Postpartum University. Pro Membership, get the method, the tools, the handouts, the advanced trainings and so much more to not only help your clients and your business grow, but to help you grow too.

Maranda: 14:36

Marketwatch says that the afterbirth services and nutrition and support is set for extraordinary growth by 2030. Don't miss your opportunity to help women and families who desperately need your holistic support. Go to wwwpostpartumucom slash membership. We're accepting registrations right now and we can't wait to see you there. But it also makes me think about the work that you're doing and how you're bringing in your, your beliefs and and God and the Holy spirit into your work, and I know this was not part of this conversation. This is not something that we plan on talking about, but I know so many people who are in this field who feel like they have to hide that, and I would love to. Just maybe if you could share with everybody who's listening in saying, oh my gosh, that sounds so amazing, it sounds divine, it sounds so wonderful, but how do you have any words of wisdom for how to incorporate that into their work?

Dr. Trina: 15:48

I would say really just kind of diving into your faith and getting comfortable for sure, and don't be afraid to share. You know Jesus wants us to share about him. You know God wants us to share. We we are. I really am feeling called to be more vocal.

Dr. Trina: 16:03

Um, because in today's world there's so much noise out there, there's so many distractions and, to be honest, like I'm a private practice owner and I felt very restricted of what I was allowed to say and not allowed to say when I was in corporate healthcare and I just felt like that was really. I just felt really icky about that. And now that I'm out on my own, I'm like I am gonna share this with every single one of my patients. And so I was actually listening to a podcast by a doctor and I don't even remember who it was, I can't remember, but she said how, every single one of her clients, she is asking them what is your prayer life like? What is your spiritual life like? Do you belong to a church? You know what are you doing on a daily basis to really connect with God, and she doesn't force any beliefs on them, she just simply plans that question and that and that feed and just kind of see what happens. Some people bite on that and some people are like, oh my gosh, like, oh, like I feel like I can let my guard down. You're a believer, we can have this conversation and sometimes I just feel like that's enough. Like that, my clients just feel like they can share more and then they just get more hungry and um.

Dr. Trina: 17:12

And I'm reading a book right now called radical wellbeing and it really just highlights the importance, especially in chronic conditions, when people come in like, oh, I've had this pain or had these issues for so long I have no idea where it came from, where sometimes it just comes from just chronic stress and just not really nourishing our bodies. When we think of our bodies, it's mind, body, soul. So how are you nourishing your body, not only from a food perspective, but movement, and what kind of content are you reading and watching and listening to and what are you really just filling your body with? And so I think that's a really important piece to bring into this type of work, especially when working on emotions and depression and anxiety and stress, because really I believe our ultimate healer is God and we are just helpers and we're just really sharing that message to other people and I know people that, like you know, I pray every day and nothing's getting better, like well, it's a combination.

Dr. Trina: 18:10

You know we have to have prayer in our life, but we also have to do the work to also nourish our bodies too, and you know, just treating our bodies like a temple. You know it's in it's right in the Bible of how to really just nourish our bodies, and I think the more that we talk about this, the more that we're more vocal about it, the more people we can help and just small little ripples can turn to waves.

Maranda: 18:35

That's so beautiful. Thank you for for having that side conversation with me and I hope that's helpful for anybody who's like. I really want to do that, but I'm afraid, or I don't, I don't know the connection or I don't know how to do it. So if that's you, there's, there's your golden ticket.

Dr. Trina: 18:51

I was told once I'm like I'm never going to lead a Bible study, I don't know enough about the Bible, like I don't feel like I pray enough. They're like it doesn't matter. All you have to do is just share what you know. You don't have to be the expert on anything. You just are opening a conversation and that's enough, just to plant that seed and that's it. Like you don't have to be the expert on the Bible or you know anything like that, or if you're, you know you can still be a work in progress.

Dr. Trina: 19:16

And I think when we as practitioners, um, are more vulnerable and we're more real with our clients, like they feel like vulnerable and we're more real with our clients, like they feel like, oh, like she's a professional and she's still a work in progress, oh, there's still hope for me, kind of thing. You know, if we put on this front that we're doing everything perfect, um, then we're not as relatable and they feel like, oh, like one the failure, because she's doing all these things and I can't and I'm never going to get better. So I just I'm just very honest and vulnerable with my patients and, you know, fortunately in private practice I can, I feel like I can be very close with them and I feel like that in itself has led to so much good work, because we're all in this together. We're all you know in this world trying to be better, and especially when I work with moms. I'm a mom myself, so I can relate to almost a lot of things that other moms are going through.

Maranda: 20:11

So and it's so true how interconnected you know the postpartum experience, healing in general, is to more of like the spiritual side of the work, and I often feel like it's the forgotten piece. And I don't. You know, it doesn't matter if you're someone who believes in Christ or God or whatever it is that your belief system is. There is a spiritual component and we see it represented throughout many, many cultures around the world. And we also know things like you know, our nourishing foods. Where do those come from? Well, it doesn't come from man, it's the things that come from the earth.

Maranda: 20:53

We know that nature therapy, which was never even a term until we've gotten so far away from nature and so disconnected that we had to look back and be like, oh wait, a second, there's this other thing and it's called nature and it's like therapy. Well, you know, a long time ago it was just life, you know. And so, whether you believe it's God's creation or whatever it is that you believe in nature, whatever it, we know that those things connect with our soul frequency, which is a whole science which I'm not going to get in on this episode, and that we have that ability to heal our bodies using those tools, using the tools that have been given to us, using those tools, using the tools that have been given to us. So, no matter where you are in this process, or you know, maybe you're someone who's like nope, that's not me, I'm not going to bring that in or I don't know how maybe it's interweaving some of those other components that are so beneficial to our health, like nature, like prayer or meditation, like nourishing foods that come from the earth.

Maranda: 21:59

Those kinds of things are just so incredibly important to that spiritual world and spiritual aspect. So thank you again for that side note. And then going back to cranial sacral therapy, if you're seeing somebody who is postpartum, what are the reasons why they're coming to you? What are the reasons why they're coming to you? What, how, what are the issues or challenges that cranial sacral therapy can address?

Dr. Trina: 22:23

Yeah, so I kind of see a wide variety. So I would say typically I start my um seeing postpartum moms because they bring their babies to me, um, because I treat infants, um, and that mom baby dyad, so typically they're coming to me because I treat infants and that mom baby dyad. So typically they're coming to me initially. You know, their baby can't latch their baby, it's colicky constipation, there might be some torticollis or reflux, those kinds of things, and they typically find me through that. So sometimes they'll come strictly from postpartum. They might enter in more from like a pelvic health perspective, since it's being a pelvic PT. But I'm always using the craniosacral fascial work on these people and so typically they come in initially with their infants. You know, as moms we always put our babies first, right, it just seems like that's kind of what happens. But as I'm addressing the baby I'm really kind of shifting more towards mom and really talking to her about what is your nervous system like? Are you? Have you eaten today? What are you drinking? And so then, as that door opens up, I'm typically getting from moms like I have postpartum, some postpartum anxiety, some postpartum rage, maybe a little touch of postpartum depression, or they have some just general pelvic pain, pain with intercourse back pain. I would say those are the typical ones that come in, especially in that first, like six months, postpartum, and usually they start in with their baby. So I'm working on both of the mom-baby dyad because as moms our nervous system really plays a role in how our babies are going to respond. And our babies are almost like a direct reflection of what our health is like and our nervous system is like. So if we have a really stressed out baby, not sleeping, colicky, very fussy, we're kind of always kind of shifting gears and watching mom too, of what that interaction is like. And that is a pill that I had, a heart pill that I had to swallow, you know, after my second baby, you know I had a lot of that.

Dr. Trina: 24:30

I was in a very stressful postpartum phase and I was like, oh, like I got to work on myself to help my child, oh, my goodness.

Dr. Trina: 24:40

Like, fortunately I was in a good space to receive that information and not all moms are, and so that's just a very delicate dance and line to dance around, because not all moms are open to receive that and they feel, and I feel like that can really set things off sometimes. But as I'm working with baby, a lot of times I'll get mom on the table with them holding baby, or maybe they're sitting in a chair nursing their baby and working on mom and baby at the same time. It's amazing just how much as mom relaxes and really releases some of that tension, baby she's like oh my gosh, like this baby's not fidgety, this baby's not crying, what are you doing? What happened? So really? Just highlighting the importance of that nervous system regulation and that is so incredibly important, as we really need to rest and slow down, which is not what society is telling us to do postpartum, and so we really have to be vocal about, like, how much it is important to rest and nourish our bodies and really tend to our nervous system.

Maranda: 25:46

There was a craniosacral therapist here in our area that I went to go see after the birth of my son and a lot of people know my story about extreme depression and anxiety and my issues with breastfeeding. I had bloody nipples and we were like two weeks in and my midwife was like you need to go see a craniosacral therapist and here's who I recommend. And I was like I don't know what this is, but I am willing to do anything it takes to get some help, but I am willing to do anything it takes to get some help. And I went in and it was. I remember she started working with my son and she sat him down on the table and he's fussy Like he was a very, very fussy high needs baby At least I thought that he was especially in the very beginning and she put her hands around his head and just like held it and she just sat there with him as he fussed and fussed, and fussed and I'm like no, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm getting nervous, I'm getting like my anxiety is setting in and all of a sudden he stops and his eyes start closing and he's legit falling asleep on the table.

Maranda: 26:59

And I remember thinking what is this person doing Like, okay, teach me your ways. And she said you two are not in sync, let me help you. And then she came to me and put her hands on my head while simultaneously holding my son's head, and I felt the whole entire room shift. I don't know how to describe that feeling, but she, when she was done, it was a couple of minutes in and it just felt so peaceful and she's like now you two are connected and I was like whoa, this is and that was really my first introduction to alternative healthcare outside of midwifery care. It was, it was the most incredible feeling and, like I've said, still today I go get cranial sacral work, I get myofascial release. That is something that I do almost on a monthly basis because my body's been through a lot of trauma growing up.

Maranda: 28:03

I like in and out of hospitals, surgeries, stomach issues, like since I was a baby, right, and so by I know that there's just so much work to do there's always work to do right and it makes me feel so good and so reconnected and I think that is such a huge component and just kind of just really highlights everything that you've said here, because it's just a really beautiful experience and I don't even know if we can really describe it in words. Like you did such a wonderful job, but to experience it and feel it is almost. Like you did such a wonderful job, but to experience it and feel it is almost, I feel like there's no words to describe that feeling.

Dr. Trina: 28:44

Yeah, and your story was beautiful, like thank you for sharing.

Dr. Trina: 28:46

It just gave me chills of like how, like she just was so probably super calm and it's just that unconditional love and support that you feel from other people Like you can tell, like, if somebody is just that you know, just that unconditional love and support that you feel from other people, like you can tell, like, if somebody is just that you know warm, unconditional love type of person, or if there's like a barrier, that you can just feel it, um, and sometimes too, it's like you know, sometimes we just need somebody to put their hand on us to help our nervous system like feel grounded and safe.

Dr. Trina: 29:14

Um, because and it's a difficult thing and and we go, we we've all experienced traumas, like in various we could have. Somebody could say they have the perfect life, but like there's always trauma somewhere Smaller bag, it doesn't matter. And you know I love that you're getting that work done monthly because it's just so important, because we don't live in a bubble. You know we have daily stresses all around us, you know we have all kinds of stuff and it's just so important to like care for ourselves so we can then be the best version of ourselves and just be a light for other people.

Maranda: 29:45

Yes, hands down. This has been such a beautiful, enlightening conversation, trina, and I just so appreciative of you. Is there anything else that you want to leave us with before we go today?

Dr. Trina: 29:58

I think we covered a lot of things. I think it's just amazing work and, like I said this, I mean it's just if anything like taking one step. I know it's scary, but like just taking one step and giving yourself permission to just do one thing to care for yourself, even if it is like five minutes to step outside barefoot and take a deep breath. You know, just those basic, tiny little things, like God gave us air to breathe, he gave us food to eat and he gave us water, like just remembering that we have to meet our basic needs, to be the best version of ourselves is the biggest thing there. And we can really. We do that with ourselves. We can really change that environment in our homes which is then going to change that else you know, out in the world too.

Maranda: 30:44

Yeah, yeah, that's gorgeous. Thank you so much for your time and attention to this and we are gonna include your information so people can reach out to you and find you with any questions, maybe how to find an area, somebody in their particular area, or how to hire you for your area, or whatever the case may be. I highly encourage you reach out to Trina. We've been in each other's space for years now, like it's been amazing to watch you grow and follow you.

Maranda: 31:13

So again, thank you and we'll connect soon. Thank you for having me this was great and follow you.

Dr. Trina: 31:17

So again, thank you, and we'll connect soon. Thank you for having me. This is great.

Maranda: 31:22

I am so grateful you turned into the Postpartum University podcast. We've hoped you enjoyed this episode enough to leave us a quick review. And, more importantly, I hope more than ever that you take what you've learned here, applied it to your own life and consider joining us in a postpartum university membership. It's a private space where mothers and providers learn the real truth and the real tools needed to heal in the years postpartum. You can learn more at wwwpostpartumucom. We'll see you next week.