Azdean [00:00:04]:
Welcome to the Destination Morocco podcast, the show that takes you away to the beautiful country of Morocco. I am your host, Azdean Elmoustaquim. In each episode, we explore moroccan culture, history, attractions and activities. Real and practical information coming from experienced travellers and native Moroccans like myself. And now, let's go exploring.
Ted [00:00:36]:
Hey there. This is Ted, the producer of Destination Morocco podcast, and I have a quick introduction to this episode for you on behalf of Azdean, who is in Marrakesh right now. He just arrived a couple days ago, he's got lots on the go, and he asked me if I could do his intro to the episode, and I said, sure. This is part two of the Amazigh, or berber history series that, as Azdean and the team have put together, the series of episodes is in response to the frequent inquiries over the past few months from podcast listeners and their own tour clients, people wanting to learn more about the history and the background of Morocco's indigenous people, and whether they're planning a trip to Morocco or have been there and are looking for more context to what they've seen and who they've met. It's been clear that there is interest. There's an opportunity for Azdean and the team to give their perspective. Now, of course, they're not historians themselves, but they are passionate about their people and their story. And the goal is to give you a genuine, authentic overview of Morocco's Amazon culture, so that when you travel there, you'll have a better idea of what to look for, what to ask about, what to request to see, and how it all fits in together.
Ted [00:01:49]:
Morocco is a very multi ethnic society, which means when we say, who are Moroccans, it really can mean any number of ethnic identities and groups. There's strong jewish influence in Morocco, as well as Arab, Spanish, French, and other Europeans. There are african migrants from across the continent. They can all be considered moroccan today, especially when they and their ancestors have lived in the country for generations. But we know that a lot of people think of Morocco as an arabic country, or perhaps more european than it actually is. In reality, the deepest cultural roots in Morocco belong to the Amazigh people, who, as we learned in the last episode, go back thousands of years. We're talking from the time of the egyptian pharaohs and the ancient Greeks. By the time the Romans arrived, the Amazigh people and culture had already been thriving for a couple thousand years, being very widespread, though across North Africa, inevitably, they weren't a single cohesive group.
Ted [00:02:49]:
And to this day, they have different dialects and customs. So in this part of what we call the Amazigh chronicles, we focus on some of the more prominent and influential tribes or ethnic groups that make up the Amazigh. And what's interesting is that this goes beyond the modern political borders of Morocco. That's a whole other story, why the borders in Africa exist where they do, how the borders impact historic people and communities. In the case of the Amazigh, we're talking the modern countries of Algeria, Libya, Tunisia, Egypt and more. In addition to Morocco itself, the Amazigh have bonds and ancestry throughout this region. And so it's important to not confine ourselves to just Morocco, even though when it comes to this show and the tours that are on offer, that focus is on things to see and do in Morocco. But in this series, we do get to go a little bit further beyond.
Ted [00:03:43]:
So as dean is joined once again by Heba and Sam, and for the three of them, it's a chance to reflect on their own experiences growing up in Amazigh culture, specifically the schlur people. And as it turns out, they had a lot more in common than they realised. So this is part two follows up on the conversation of the previous episode, episode 50, which focused on the Amazigh, or berber history of Morocco. This time around, you'll get to learn more about who some of the distinct ethnicities and tribes are that, broadly speaking, are known as Amazigh, but of course have their own distinct identities, dialects, cultural traditions and geographic foundations. There will be more conversations to come as part of this series. Most of those will go in as bonus episodes. You'll see them in the podcast feed. So if you're interested in learning more and following along on that theme, that's where you'll see it.
Ted [00:04:35]:
And in the meantime, some of the upcoming episodes over the next month will still revolve around the cultural theme. We have one coming up about cultural experiences for travellers. So where can you find music nights, performances, interactive events, Hannah arts, cooking classes, and especially those cultural immersions with berber families? You'll get to learn all about how that works and how to experience them. And I'll do a quick plug for our next live Q and A session, which is on Wednesday, February 14, where as Azdean and the team will be going over some basic Berber language vocabulary for travellers. Now, I know from experience being there you don't really have to learn. That depends where you go. If you go out into the mountains and more of the more rural areas, then yeah, that could actually be quite handy. Otherwise you can certainly get by in the major cities and tourist places with English.
Ted [00:05:29]:
Bit of French can help sometimes, too, but it's fun if you're interested in languages and you're curious about some of those basic phrases and useful things for travellers. How do I go here? Where is this? Hello, thank you. Et cetera. And how that translates from Berber into English. That's what our next live Q A will be about. You can find the information about that on the website destinations morocco.com. There's a big button at the top of the website that takes you to the live Q A page. And from there you can register and you can also submit some questions.
Ted [00:05:59]:
And hopefully you can join us live on YouTube in particular. Also Facebook and LinkedIn. From destination Morocco, Wednesday, February Pacific time, twelve noon eastern time. All right, so I'll turn it over to Asdine, to Hiba and to Sam, and let's learn some more about who are the Amazigh people.
Azdean [00:06:20]:
So, Hiba, can you tell us a little bit about the geographical distribution of the Amazigh people in North Africa? And also what are they called in each region?
Hiba [00:06:30]:
So the Amazigh dispressed across North Africa in a diverse and complex way. Each tribe has its own unique dialect, cultural practises as well as customs. First, we have the Rifians. The Rifians live in the northern side, in Morocco, in the riff mountains, in cities like Nador, Ezjir, Shawen, as well as Husseino. They speak the terrific dialect. They have their own cultural practises, famous, known by their bravery, especially as warriors. And by the way, they are the smallest Amazon tribe in Morocco.
Azdean [00:07:14]:
That's really, really interesting. Sam, have any addition to add to the Rifians? Or we call them riyafa as well, or tarifit, the language.
Sam [00:07:22]:
Yeah, I just wanted to call a little bit about the Amazon community. Why, for example, the question why do other civilizations disappeared, including the Phoenicians, including the pharaohs, including the Cartageans, the Romans, the greek civilizations? And why the Berber, the Amazia people, maintain and continue to nowadays? Why? Because they live in communities and tribes. This is how they protect themselves from the other cultures, invasions of other cultures. So coming back to your questions as Azdean, about the ruffians. The Ruffians is one of the strongest and brave tribes in Morocco, northern Morocco especially. And they speak a dialect. I hope we can talk about the Amazon language in the other episodes to give the audience more details about the Berber or Amazon language and different dialects throughout the Tamazar land. It's not only in Morocco, but throughout berber countries or Amazon countries.
Sam [00:08:28]:
So when Spain invades Morocco, northern Morocco, especially the Rifians, were there to protect their community, their land, and especially their language, which is terrified.
Azdean [00:08:43]:
Yeah, it's amazing. I remember the stories. So many beautiful stories. I see the rifles. They are tough. They are tough. Tough stuff. Super nice people.
Azdean [00:08:53]:
But I called them the Amazonians. Very strong. You do not want to mess with them. Definitely.
Hiba [00:09:02]:
You don't have to.
Azdean [00:09:03]:
Definitely, yes. Super hospitable people. Even the tours, even when we do the tours in the northern part of Morocco and when we go to Akshor, you can see the reef mountains. It's beautiful. They're completely different than the Atlas mountains. Even the mountains look pissed off. You don't want to mess with. Yeah.
Azdean [00:09:25]:
We had such an amazing time last time we visited chef Shawan. The reef mountains, the region, akshor, the scenery, the natural beauty. It's really, really wonderful. So we're going to move to the next tribe that we have here in terms of the Amazigh, if you can tell us about the next in our list of tribes. And also this tribe is extremely important. And it struggled throughout centuries and throughout regions and throughout. Nowadays they have a massive struggle that they are going through and they have been going through for the last few decades. If you can tell us a little bit more about them, please.
Hiba [00:10:09]:
The following Amazon tribe in northern Algeria, called Kbael. The Khbael people reside in the Kbaeli region in Algeria, especially in Tiziozo Jaya Buera, known for their resilient cultural practises. The Khabel have, by the way, rich oral traditions and most known for their vibrant festivals and their strong connection to their home, mountainous land.
Azdean [00:10:41]:
Okay, Sam, can you tell us, I also want to hear a little bit about the politics and nowadays, what's going on with Dhbael, because a lot of people don't know, but they really, really need to are, when you say Moroccans, we are united and then one dynasty and then one kingdom, and we were very proud. Then when you say Africans, we can relate to whether you're from Ghana, whether you're from South Africa, whether from Nigeria, Cameroon, that unites us. Then when you say we're bird birds or we're Amazigh, whether the next person to me is algerian or tunisian or from Libya, and when they say we are amazed there's that special connection, then we have our own flag, we have our own history. But the Kabael, they're extremely important, but mostly ignored. And that's what I'm interested to hear about today, if you would, Sam, please.
Sam [00:11:29]:
The Kabayl people, which is, as we say, the indigenous people of Algeria. They suffered a lot. They suffered a lot to preserve their language, to preserve their land and especially their traditions and customs. I love the customs of the Kabili or Kabili people. And by the way, the algerian government especially. And unfortunately, they ignored those people and they tried hard to evacuate them from that area in Algeria, which is the north of Algeria, as Heba mentioned. But the people fought a lot for their independence and for their language to be the second official language of the country to have, like a day off for Yenair or the Amazigh New Year and to have Amazigh teaching in schools. And by the way, this is the place where they created the Amazigh World Congress, which is united all the Amazigh people worldwide.
Sam [00:12:40]:
This is the place where they just invented unique Tifinagh language, especially, and thanks to the Khabili people living abroad, especially in France and United States, because they made big efforts to maintain and carry on their own language and their own community and their own tribes till nowadays.
Azdean [00:13:06]:
That's really, really interesting. Yeah. When we talk about, know, we talk about the cultural effect of it throughout Africa, throughout North Africa and globally, then we can talk about the music, which is just a complete different subject. It's beyond incredible. The Yamazik people are very diverse and a lot of government, they try to just keep it under the rug, not giving them at least the minimal of rights that are possible. We're fortunate to certain level in Morocco, we have certain rights today than before in terms of the recognition of the YAmazigh language, the YAmazigh culture, the YAmazigh people, especially nowadays in schools. The Berber language is being taught in schools, which is a huge improvement. You can watch the news in the Yamazar language, which is very important.
Azdean [00:13:58]:
We're lucky in Morocco in that regard. You can watch the news in almost any language, which is really, really important. So when we talk about the kabbal, the cabal is very important to the culture, to our culture, to our history. And also I want to go to the Turg. We're going to come back to Algeria, but a little bit down the road. But I want to hear a little bit more about the twerg in the sahara, if you can tell us more.
Hiba [00:14:22]:
The twerg in the Sahara desert. They are considered to be nomadic or seminomic pastoralists living across the region of North Africa, countries like Mali, Algeria, Niger, Burkina Faso and Nigeria as well. Namely, we have Timbokto in Mali, we have Agadis in Niger and Tamanrast in Algeria. They're famously known by their special clothes. And they have a rich history that intertwined heavily with the trans saharan trade roots.
Azdean [00:15:03]:
Very interesting. Thank you, Hiba.
Sam [00:15:05]:
I can say that the Tuareg is the tribes that is keeping the original Amazia civilization as nomads. They still live in communities. They still keep in their own language, which is called Tameshik. Tameshik or Tameshikt, or in other language, Tamazikt, which is Amaziah people. Fortunately, many people don't know that those people are nomads originally, and they still live in a big part of Mali, which is called the province of Azawad, the north of Niger, the north of Burkina Faso, and in Libya as well. Libyan people, a big part of Libya, because many people think also that Libya is an arabic country. It's not an arabic country. It's a nemesis country, because a big part of Libya are Berbers, are Amazigh, and are Tuerig, the Tuareg people.
Sam [00:15:59]:
I love their language. I love their lifestyle, especially when it comes to the weeding, the way they make the music as well, which. Cause we have a famous group which scors Tinarin. I don't know if our audience knows about this, which makes the culture of Tuareg very famous worldwide. A big thanks to them to make people know about Amazigh, or berber culture.
Azdean [00:16:26]:
So a lot of different tribes, a lot of different communities. So now we're going to move to the next one that we have, if you can tell us a little bit more about it, which is shluh, which is the most popular word for the Amazon people. Hiba, what's your take on it, please?
Hiba [00:16:42]:
The Shlo have considered to be the largest Amazon tribe in Morocco because they're occupying different regions, including the high Atlas mountains, onto Atlas, the valley of Susmesa, as well as some parts in the south, including where the is Ait, Agadir, Terudent, Tefraut. They're basically known for their costumes as well. They speak Teslhid dialect, and they are famous for their performances, especially in films and their traditional Amazon music.
Azdean [00:17:22]:
I identify myself as schle because we're from the part of world is Ait. Sam, I think you're the same here. I'm not sure where you fit.
Hiba [00:17:31]:
I'm the Sam.
Azdean [00:17:32]:
Okay. This is a small schle group. Okay, excellent.
Sam [00:17:38]:
Yeah. They are known about their strong tribe and their strong community, and especially in trading, commerce. And they still keep it till nowadays, most of the rich people in Morocco. They are schlu, by the way. Yeah, we would talk about the business. Business men, businesswomen, people in Morocco, 90% of them are Shlu, because all the money comes from commerce or trading. In the past, when there is caravans coming from the subsaharan countries and the others coming from western, where the meeting point was Isawira and Marrakech, and all those people were shluh. Besides the trading and commerce, they have a strong relation with land, especially the agriculture.
Sam [00:18:28]:
Yes, and always they take the places near the rivers, near the water, near the springs, to improve their agricultures and cultivate their fields, to maintain their communities and life.
Azdean [00:18:44]:
I can definitely relate. So now we're going to move to southern Morocco, and we're going to talk about the next group. The zionist group, please.
Hiba [00:18:54]:
The Zionist. Amazed. Located in the middle of Morocco. Middle Atlas, Morocco. Aznifra. They speak the Tazait dialect and they're totally different, totally divers from the Rifians and Schlu tribes in Morocco. They have their own dialect and customs, as well as they're known for their unique celebrations, weddings, music and so on.
Azdean [00:19:24]:
Yeah, they're definitely different. I think they're closer to the arab side than the berber side. Yeah. Sam, what's your take on that, please?
Sam [00:19:34]:
Yeah. What I want to add about the Zayan or isiyan, it's in Berber, Izayan or Azayan or Zayan. Zayan is the name of the region which is the middle Atlas mountains and a small part of southeast of Morocco, starting from Irashidia, middlet, then to Azro, to Ephraim, to Bomia, to Benim, lel to Khnefra, then until Miknes. Around Miknes, this has the borders of this amazing tribe, which is called zayan. Their dialect is different from the others, especially big difference from the shluh, the way they pronounce the words. What I like most about these tribes is their music, which called the Hidus.
Azdean [00:20:21]:
Yes.
Sam [00:20:22]:
And the way they play the music is just amazing. It is their relation with their land, especially the agriculture. As you know, there is plains there in the middle Atlas mountains. Most of them in the past were shepherd. Right?
Azdean [00:20:38]:
Shepherds.
Sam [00:20:39]:
Yes, shepherds. Yeah.
Azdean [00:20:41]:
Okay. Good to know.
Sam [00:20:43]:
Yeah.
Azdean [00:20:43]:
I love the music. I love ahedus. It looks like ahwash, but it's different. The way that it's choreographed is just incredible. The groups are really bigger. The dress is almost the same, but a little difference.
Hiba [00:20:54]:
It's similar to Driphians, I think, but.
Azdean [00:20:56]:
Distinctive from the schle, the dresses, gilba ahwash versus Ahidus.
Sam [00:21:03]:
Yes. Okay.
Azdean [00:21:04]:
Very good point. So now we're going to move to a smaller group. We're going to go back again to Algeria, and we're going to talk about the next group that we have in line, if you can give it a description and talk a little bit about it.
Hiba [00:21:15]:
That group known as Muzabits, located in central Algeria, they reside in the Mzab valley. They are known for their distinctive architecture and urban planning. Their communities, such as Zardaya. Zardaya showing case of the unique architectural and islamic Amazon element. This is the most important thing that make the difference between the Mzavids in the central and the Tuareg in the north Algeria.
Sam [00:21:48]:
Yeah.
Azdean [00:21:50]:
This is a good opportunity for me as well, to learn, and I really, really appreciate your expertise.
Sam [00:21:55]:
What I want to add about Mzabit is that maybe France know them better than me because they got resistance, a big, big resistance, because the french colonial didn't go to that part in Algeria during their 130 years of colonial. What I like most, as Hiba mentioned, the architecture, the way they built their community and houses, which is a little bit similar to our architecture, especially the Casbas in the southern part of Morocco. And two, which is a system of storage and bank systems in the western part of Morocco, especially in the region of Tafraut. It's similar to that one in Ardaya. It's a system of villages built in stones and clay.
Azdean [00:22:51]:
When you say igudar, just go with me. Where is the word igudar come from? Because I want to explain a few things to the audience that they are not familiar with this part especially. What does igudar mean?
Sam [00:23:02]:
Igudar, it's the plural of Agadir.
Azdean [00:23:06]:
Okay. What does Agadir mean?
Sam [00:23:07]:
Agadir means in Amazon language, wall.
Azdean [00:23:11]:
The wall. Now, so when we go and we talk about the banking system, which is one of the first that it's been established globally in the world by the Amazon people. It's called the wall. So now I just want people to think and imagine the wall. Now, can you explain to us the significance of the wall or the walls to the banking system? Because I know exactly what you're talking about, and I've seen the pictures, but I want the audience to picture it with us. If you can explain that, please, Sam.
Sam [00:23:38]:
Yeah. In the beginning, it was like a wall built to protect a small village. In the beginning. Then the idea comes the Berber's tank, that we can build a system which is like a bank. It's a small village. With small rooms inside. And it's closed.
Azdean [00:23:57]:
Yes.
Sam [00:23:58]:
And it's well protected for the people to save or to store their value. Things including silver, for example, jewellery, gold, jewelries and currency. Yes, the currency in the past. And there is always the chef, the leader of the tribe, who has the keys for this bank system, which called Igudar.
Azdean [00:24:21]:
Igudar.
Sam [00:24:22]:
And ait still exists in the villages of tefrot and the village of Iran in the western part of Morocco.
Azdean [00:24:33]:
Thank you so much for that. It's really, really important because I know we've seen it in pictures and movies and stuff, but I just want to give the audience just a little bit of a clue how it looks like, so they'll have an idea. Thank you so much for that. So now we're going to move to one of the last groups that we're going to talk about, and this one, it's new to me, to be honest with you. Can you talk about it? Which is the Siwa group, the Siwi.
Hiba [00:24:57]:
Siwi people in Egypt. Siwa, by the way, was used in Egypt and the home for the Siwi people, their distinct Amazon community related by the Sahara desert. And they have preserved, over time, their own dialect and cultural practises that defy completely from the niborian egyptian communities.
Sam [00:25:20]:
I want to add about the Siwi or the Siwa people, Siwa region in Egypt is they just known about the trade of the salt because they still have big mines of salt in Egypt. This was their main activity, because they don't have land, because it's a saharan region, so they have this kind of commerce or trade, which is the salt. And beside this they have Wazis, which is the palm groves in that region of Egypt. And they keeped and preserved their community by not allowing the neighbours to get inside. And still, nowadays, they still keep this, because if you want to visit the region, you have to respect many things, especially the traditions of the locals, if you want to visit this part of Egypt, which is called Siwa, and their language is totally different than the Tuereg, than the reef, than the Schluch, than the Kabili. And then domzobit directs, in Amazon world, the Amazon languages.
Azdean [00:26:26]:
That's very interesting. So as we get close to the end of this episode, I know we're going to make a specific episode just for the berber culture, history and their contribution to society, and then we'll talk about businesses and commerce and things like that. So, any last words to close this episode with for you, Hiba? And then we'll move to Sam, I.
Hiba [00:26:48]:
Just want to say I'm really fortunate to talk about the history of the amazigh people because they signified bravery, courage and resilience. I'm really proud to have Amazon roads, and I'm looking for audience to hear and to get amazed with their history.
Azdean [00:27:11]:
Thank you so much for really, really fortunate to have you with us.
Hiba [00:27:15]:
Thank you.
Azdean [00:27:16]:
So for you, Sam, what is the takeaway for you? What would you like the audience, the listeners, to take from this episode?
Sam [00:27:23]:
Yes, first of all, as Jean, I am very, very proud that I am amazed, and I am a berberman, first of all, and that I belong to the Schlach tribes, which is one of the largest and the biggest tribes in Morocco as well. I'm very proud that I can write the Tifinagh, the Amazigh language. And what I want the audience most to know about, that's the Amazon civilization. And Amazon language. Culture is not a modern language. It's not a modern civilizations. I hope that they go in depth to know about those people, the community, the cultures, the customs, especially the music. Yes, the Amazon music, including ahwash, including written music, instrumental music, all of them is just amazing.
Sam [00:28:16]:
As I said, I'm very proud to be amazed.
Azdean [00:28:19]:
Thank you. Thank you, Sam. I feel the same way. We are from the same region. We all fall into the same group, which is schle. And when we talk about the music, the music is super vast. It is extremely diverse. When you talk about the music, I mean, I listen to all different types of music, but then when somebody's playing ahawash, which is our local celebration, if you would, for weddings, circumcision, for anything that we celebrate, that's my jam.
Azdean [00:28:46]:
It's in me. I feel it. The beat, the people, it moves you. And this is something that I cannot really express, but you have to attend one of those celebrations to see and understand what I'm talking about. I'm very proud to be amazed as well. And when we talk about our culture, we talk about the language. I don't live in Morocco anymore, so it's a bit of a challenge for me. I understand the language.
Azdean [00:29:10]:
I can respond a little bit. I used to speak it better when I was a kid than now, but I still understand, I would say maybe 80%, 85% of it. I fear for my son because he does not understand it. And this is preserved in our culture. Eventually, he needs to learn the language. He speaks Moroccan and he has an accent, and he's very funny with his accent, so he makes things better sound go. But we're teaching him few words. And I feel very comfortable in many different ways for him because he loves Morocco and he talks about destination Morocco all the time.
Azdean [00:29:45]:
And I think that's really, really important. First step, he's an American, but he knows where he comes from. So stay tuned in for the next episode. And we really, really appreciate you. Thank you very much.