Have you ever wondered why nobody seems to care about aliens anymore? Or why public incidents such as Mitch McConnell's alleged stroke on live TV can trigger personal trauma? Well, buckle up as we zestfully navigate these mysteries before welcoming our guest for this week: feminist culture critic, author, and anti-rape activist Roslyn Talusan to share some laughs and reflections on Stan Culture.
We discuss the evolution and impact of this phenomenon, and Roslyn shares with us her brushes with stan culture (ahem, Ariana Grande, anyone?) while delving into the darker side of fandoms and how social media plays a massive part in it.
As conversations become increasingly heated online: how are the lines blurring between politics, entertainment, and stan-dom? We use real-life examples like the Bernie Bros or try to decode right-wing politician Ron DeSantis's campaign video, which relies solely on meme culture. We explore the implications of movements like Free Britney and how celebrities often wield the power of celebrity to make their stans do whatever they want (yeah, we're talking about the BTS Army).
Listen to the full episode where Roslyn indulges us in a game where we humorously decipher literal fan base names. If it sounds unhinged, it's probably because it is. Don't forget to tune in on Sunday, August 20th, for our next mini-episode.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Show Notes and References!
Have you ever wondered why nobody seems to care about aliens anymore? Or why public incidents such as Mitch McConnell's alleged stroke on live TV can trigger personal trauma? Well, buckle up as we zestfully navigate these mysteries before welcoming our guest for this week: feminist culture critic, author, and anti-rape activist Roslyn Talusan to share some laughs and reflections on Stan Culture.
We discuss the evolution and impact of this phenomenon, and Roslyn shares with us her brushes with stan culture (ahem, Ariana Grande, anyone?) while delving into the darker side of fandoms and how social media plays a massive part in it.
As conversations become increasingly heated online: how are the lines blurring between politics, entertainment, and stan-dom? We use real-life examples like the Bernie Bros or try to decode right-wing politician Ron DeSantis's campaign video, which relies solely on meme culture. We explore the implications of movements like Free Britney and how celebrities often wield the power of celebrity to make their stans do whatever they want (yeah, we're talking about the BTS Army).
Listen to the full episode where Roslyn indulges us in a game where we humorously decipher literal fan base names. If it sounds unhinged, it's probably because it is. Don't forget to tune in on Sunday, August 20th, for our next mini-episode.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Show Notes and References!
Welcome to High Low Brow. The show with high brow takes on low brow culture. I'm your one host. I mean a subscriber.
Speaker 2:I'm your co-host River.
Speaker 1:Gilbert, and we're back, big, big again. We are back, back, back, back again. I feel like I've said this almost every, literally every episode.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean to be fair. We are back again.
Speaker 1:We are back again every single episode and I just feel like we should have some consistency. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's a catchphrase Exactly High, low Brow, we're back again.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I mean, we are back.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's been a busy week.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's been a busy week. I mean we are surviving. I'm not sure if we're thriving.
Speaker 2:I mean Mitch Fakhan will have a stroke on TV.
Speaker 1:Yes, I'm so. I remember you told me about this and I was like so wait, let's roll back. You said that Mitch McConnell has stroke, yeah, and I was like, oh, okay, that's terrible, like he's a terrible human. But then I think you missed the glaring part of Mitch McConnell had a stroke while giving an address to the press.
Speaker 2:I definitely buried the lead on that one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you 100% buried the lead on that one and I did not find out that it was that until.
Speaker 2:I showed you a TikTok and you're like, was that? The stroke yeah.
Speaker 1:And I was like, oh shit. So to give some context to all of our listeners in the audience, I have had a stroke before, tia, tia, so not a full blown stroke, not a capital S stroke, but a small S, a mini stroke.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, like a sss.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the sss is for stroke, yeah.
Speaker 2:But you didn't that when you had that, it wasn't like that. No, it wasn't.
Speaker 1:Anyways, watching the video, I was just like video TikTok. I was like holy shit, because it reminded me as well of me having a seizure. Well, that's what I thought too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was like oh, so this is like a very prolonged petite mouth seizure.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, no, no that was Mitch. Mcconnell having a stroke.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, you know it wasn't pleasant to watch, I'll say that much. But I don't enjoy the man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it couldn't have happened to a better person.
Speaker 1:Right, so I guess it's uncomfortable for me to watch. Having experienced, that is fair, yeah, and I was like, oh, this is not okay.
Speaker 2:I'm triggered.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I guess it's also too, and I've talked to you about this and for again, for all of our listeners we're three minutes in. I'm like hello, here are all my health ailments.
Speaker 2:Yeah, medical history with Emma. Yeah, it's our new segment.
Speaker 1:It's our new segment. I have petite mouth and grand mouth seizures. Grand mouth seizures are the ones that people commonly know as the seizures that you have when you fall down on the ground and shake or if you live in Canada. It's part of that heritage moment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you're just smelling burnt toast.
Speaker 1:I smell burnt toast.
Speaker 2:I remember when, on our, I feel like it was on our first or second date and I'm like, can I ask you the most insensitive question in the world and please feel free to tell me to fuck off. And you're like they're called auras. No, I don't smell burnt toast. I do see like visual things.
Speaker 1:It's just the thing, yeah, and I have been seizure free for quite some time now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you still have the TNO. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And I think that people will never go away, which is bizarre, mostly because petite mouth seizures you're typically supposed to grow out of those in your teens, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's like a child's two teens thing.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes.
Speaker 2:So, but it's kind of. I am one of the lucky ones. You're young at heart.
Speaker 1:I'm young at heart. Where I was going with this whole thing is when I see people either let's say, there's a show and there's someone having a seizure, or there's that trend on social media where people are like I'm going to like fill myself having tics or doing.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, and I remember seeing one with a therapy dog and it was when they were having a seizure. We should probably go past this.
Speaker 1:So I think again Mitch McConnell is a terrible human, but it triggered something in me where. I was like, oh, I hate this, I don't want to see this it reminds you of your own mortality. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm not forever. None of us are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know that we talked about it last time, but can we share with everyone what your latest obsession is?
Speaker 2:Is it Legend of Zelda?
Speaker 1:Randomizer runs no it's Vanderpump Rules, oh, it's Vanderpump Rules. Oh my God. The fact that you were like hmm, what is it? What am I so obsessed with?
Speaker 2:I feel okay.
Speaker 1:I really just watched a Vanderpump Rules episode.
Speaker 2:I feel like, yes, we have to get to that, but before we get to that, we spent so long talking about Mitch McConnell and spent zero time talking about the fact that there are aliens. Because that is basically the entire summary of this past week is everyone cares about everything except for aliens, because nobody fucking cares.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm like aliens, whatever.
Speaker 2:Who cares? Do I have to go to?
Speaker 1:work on Monday? Yeah, then I don't care what Aliens exist. I mean, my boss just tried to kill me this week. Yeah, I don't care about aliens. Honestly, if the aliens are going to come here and help us throw down capitalism.
Speaker 2:Oh, dude, I feel like that Simpson the. I voted for Kodos.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm thinking in my head like the aliens walking to Earth or like beaming down to Earth, and then they're like just checking out all the stupid shit that's happening because we've literally like the planet is dying. Hey guys, it's really hot.
Speaker 2:Can you turn the ozone up, please, yeah.
Speaker 1:They come down and it's like that Simpson's Grandpa Simpson meme where he just like walks in and then turns right back around. That's the aliens. Right now they're just like wow, should be not great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, it's and fair.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I mean, those aliens know what's up. That's their win on strike, yeah. So, for those of you who do not live in Canada, we have a chain of grocery stores called Metro. I believe Metro is like the Ontario version, but who are they owned by? Again?
Speaker 2:Oh God, I don't remember, but they're a connect based, I believe.
Speaker 1:Okay, so, and for further context, canadian grocery stores are basically three monopolies. Yeah, it's, it's all, it's basically all law laws law, laws, so bees, and then whichever brand owns Metro.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but, like law, laws is the big one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is Fuck you, I'm western.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But that's another guy we might have in Australia, anyways.
Speaker 1:But yes, so we were reading the news and Metro, the all of the workers from the GTA Metro's have gone on strike. The first thing you said was general strike. Yeah, I mean, I am here for this.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. This is like we're entering her strike era. We're entering our season of the means of production era.
Speaker 1:I read this great article All of Gen Z is sort of rage, or sorry rage, quit, and it was rage, apply right Rage apply and quit talk, quit talk. Yes, that's it. I'm old, I can't remember things, but I'm really into Twitter talk.
Speaker 2:No, an X talk. What is this week?
Speaker 1:Yeah, Post game confirmed. Post game confirmed. But basically about how Gen Z is, sort of recruiters and HR folks are finding it hard to hire because Gen Z has just fucking had it with all of the nonsense that like corporate America quote, unquote is putting out there into the world. And like I read this article and I was like same big, huge saying I did see another tick talk today. I don't know if this guy was like what his deal is, but essentially he was saying that also recruiters and HR folks are having a really difficult time hiring because previously everything was remote and now that they're trying to force people to go back to the offices, people are actually holding out, saying like no, I don't want to go to the office. And they're trying to find like that sweet spot of like either remote or the most minimal amount of time One to two days, yeah. So he was saying it's kind of like workers. It's not the same as when the pandemic was happening and there was all remote work, yeah.
Speaker 2:We were also in like an employer market back then Right.
Speaker 1:So it's just people are having more, people are applying, but they're having a difficult time actually getting people to say yes, these are the things. I will come into the office three days a week.
Speaker 2:Let me do a business for three of the five days a week. The other two, I want more pants.
Speaker 1:I am Vincent Tultemann. Yeah, but yes. Before a rethrown of the episode, I need you to at least tell everyone how much you have been enjoying Vanderpump Rules.
Speaker 2:We are in season three.
Speaker 1:When did we start?
Speaker 2:it Last weekend. Yeah, it's. All I want to do is watch Vanderpump.
Speaker 1:It's, that's what happens.
Speaker 2:It is unreal. I'm just like Jax is the most unhinged person I've ever heard.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I love that. Lady Gaga was like fire Kristen. It's just, it's so good.
Speaker 1:God, it really said fire Kristen, yeah, no.
Speaker 2:And I'm like I can't get over this name. It's like it just gets better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm like, I'm not going to spoil anything for you. I need this to all like as it's happening. I want to like watch your reaction because Well, I know Scandival. Yeah, I mean of course.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But, I don't know who the other person is in Scandival. I know like obviously Tom and presumably Ariana. Yeah, and that's all I know. And I know Schwartz covered for him. Yes, and that's literally all I know.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I can't wait for season 10. But I am who boy enjoying this ride.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think we talked about this yesterday was it's been the first time that I have rewatched the entire series. I started watching Vanderpump during the pandemic, I mean.
Speaker 2:When we were all furloughed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when we were all just stuck in our houses and because for years people were like, oh my God, you will love Vanderpump rules, and I was like I don't know.
Speaker 2:I watch House Flies. It's close enough, it's close enough.
Speaker 1:I got it. I got a show. I'm going to stick to the OG. But then I started watching it and I was like what the fuck?
Speaker 2:is this. It is the gateway to Bravo Cinema from the universe, it seems.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:I'm like, oh, I'll watch Beverly Hills now, for sure.
Speaker 1:I can't wait until we do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, we were out last night and we were taking the girl for a walk. The girl was their dog. I was, like you know, watching this with fresh eyes again. Lisa has some questionable not takes, but she just she has different standards for different people. Yeah, and I just like, I don't like. I love Lisa obviously.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can do the best.
Speaker 1:But I'm just like I don't know about this.
Speaker 2:There was like the season two reunion. They were, like it felt, a little like smacking of misogyny where it's like oh, you're holding Kristen to a different standard than you're holding Tom to, and even Jack's, yeah yeah. It's Jack's the worst person, yeah, the worst person in the world.
Speaker 1:Take Tom out of the equation, because we didn't know he was who he was until years later. Jack's like and again I said this to you I was like Kristen was terrible, but like, come on.
Speaker 2:Well, we just keep going, Keep going. What's up with Jack's and my good good friend Miles Davis? It was like it's all the coke. And then this season he's getting his nose repaired. Now, as soon as he walks into the doctor's office, I was like, oh, deviated septum, and sure enough.
Speaker 1:And there you have it.
Speaker 2:This was our most neurodivergent intro of all time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean it's great. Should we throw it in the actual episode? Yeah, okay, cool. So for this week's episode, we actually have someone who I think is incredible and amazing. They are a journalist and a sexual assault survivor and an advocate, and they're mostly known on the internet for being in a fight with Ariana Grande, which we will talk about on the episode. Their name is Rosalind Tillucin. The episode is kind of it's similar to the Ariana Grande episode. You want to tell the folks what it's about?
Speaker 2:Oh, it's Stan Culture.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's Stan Culture and we kind of go into the. I was going to say the pros and cons. Are there pros?
Speaker 2:I don't know if there are. No, I was going to say there are pros. If you're the person being stamped, they're not. Yeah.
Speaker 1:We talk about Stan Culture and just some of the In and out yeah, the ins and outs and the community surrounding it.
Speaker 2:What makes up Stan Culture?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and how celebrities sometimes really can. They have power over the communities that they foster and yet sometimes they do nothing with that power. Yeah, so that's the episode. Should we throw it in? Let's throw it. We hope you guys enjoy. We are here for another episode.
Speaker 2:Yes, we are.
Speaker 1:I feel like this episode is very timely, considering, I want to say it feels like we're on the dying breaths of Twitter, but like it has been in the death rattle.
Speaker 2:It's like twitching at this point in time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if you, if you would like kick it. It would be like no, I'm still here, I'm not dead, yet We've been all saying goodbye to each other on Twitter, for like it's crazy. But I mean this topic in and of itself, stan Culture, kind of birth. It's been alive for so long, but Stan Culture really came alive, if you will, on Twitter. We're not, I agree with that.
Speaker 1:The topic today is not about Twitter. Spoiler alert and sorry to all those who are like oh my God, why aren't we talking about Twitter? But we are talking about Stan Culture and our guest today is Rosalyn Toulouse. I felt like when we were sort of planning for this episode, I was like if anybody can talk about Stan Culture, it's Rosalyn. Sorry, it's so true. It's so true. Rosalyn and I know each other from journalism.
Speaker 3:Sadly, twittercom For how long now Too long, way too long. I've known so many people. I know so many people on Twitter through journalism and writing. Yes, and it's been literal years.
Speaker 2:Yes, I know.
Speaker 3:I've just known you for a couple of years. Meanwhile it's been probably since like at least 2015,. 16, 17. Yeah, like in the before times, in the before times, literal before times.
Speaker 2:That's the thing, because if anything happened in the before times. It's already been happening for like five years at least, Like.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly it's yeah.
Speaker 1:Rosalyn, I am super excited to have you on the show, but I want you to do a much better intro than what I did. So, rosalyn, thank you for coming to ILO.
Speaker 3:Bro, of course, thank you Thanks for having me. My name is Rosalyn Toulouse. I am a culture writer and a critic and an anti rape activist. Like Emma said, I know a lot of people off of Twitter here and that's where you'll find me running my mouth a lot of the time. So, yeah, still, even in the in it's like death rattling, twitching era it's. I'm still on there Till till it's final breath. Yeah, it never loads again.
Speaker 1:We don't want to bring up Ariana Grande, do we?
Speaker 3:Well, I think we kind of have to at this point.
Speaker 1:Should we start with that, or, like I mean, we can?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Can we start with the difference between like being like a fan and being a stan Cause like? Well, I have a vague.
Speaker 3:Oh, I can yes yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, let's. Let's talk about the difference between being a fan and stan, and then we'll talk about Ariana Grande. Okay, perfect.
Speaker 3:So for me, the difference between a fan and a stan is like the lengths you go to to show your appreciation for that artist or whoever you're a fan of. Obviously, fan culture has been around for forever, especially on the internet, like I still remember being on like BBS forums in the nineties and getting flamed by like 30 year olds and I was nine talking about anime. So, it's been around for a while.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was going to say I remember this is kind of weird and creepy and but I remember when I first got AOL and there was like sub forums or like sub chat rooms. Don't ask me why I was on here, but for like serial killers, oh shit.
Speaker 2:Can you have a serial killer stan?
Speaker 1:I mean probably, if you are not in a good mental health place.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was like well, we all saw the dumber thing around the timeline Like yes, they're definitely serial killer stands.
Speaker 1:Unfortunately, yeah, yeah. So that's me telling on myself when I was like what 10?
Speaker 2:This was post. Use net, but pre.
Speaker 1:Correct. Yes, so before am I had therapy, right yeah.
Speaker 3:Anyways, continue. Yeah, so like being a fan has always had this like little culture around it and that's fine, that's great, like I've found so many like friends through being a fan and that's like the beautiful thing about art is that we can like all come together and like share our love for this thing. That makes us happy. But then I think being a stan kind of takes it like to this like obsession, and when I think of a stan it's someone who runs like a news account, like with 24, seven updates about one person.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:And then they run like they do free marketing, they do free PR for this person who doesn't know who they are. I will say that I was. I did consider myself like Alana Del Rey stan back in 2012, 2013, 2014. Yeah, I mean, I'm kind of crazy like in that, in that headspace of like I love this artist so much and I like connect to her on this, like really emotional and like spiritual level, and I just think that if she notices me on the internet, we could be like really good friends.
Speaker 2:Gotcha. So it's like stan from the literal. Yeah, I'm gonna say so, okay, okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that's where the word stan came from.
Speaker 3:Yes, that's right.
Speaker 2:I thought that M&M's fans were called stands and I was like wait, oh oh that's where it comes from.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:We got there, we got there.
Speaker 3:They are connecting.
Speaker 1:I'm getting there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly, I forget. I feel like there was like a oh, it's a stalker fan, that's what it's like a I forget what the word is for that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think too, like kind of what you were talking about, like you, oh, I really like because there's also parasocial relationships. And where do they fall into stan culture? Because I feel like stands are not as like. Some people feel like they have parasocial relationships with individuals, but parasocial relationships don't necessarily and please feel free to be like, no, you're wrong but like parasocial relationships don't necessarily fall into stand them or stan culture.
Speaker 2:I don't know, I was going to say I don't know the psychology, yeah, yeah. I'm like you can. You can have a parasocial relationship with someone without being a stand. But I don't think you can necessarily be a stand without having a parasocial relationship.
Speaker 3:Yes, I think hey, yeah.
Speaker 2:All squares are rectangles, not all rectangles are squares. There we go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right. Yeah Well, I mean, I was just thinking about, like way back in the day, rupaul's Drag Race, when it very like when it first launched. I remember watching it on. Oh, what was that much music? There was a sub much music channel, not much more music? Was it Much more music?
Speaker 3:Because it aired, yeah, because it aired the 36.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it aired the. Yeah, it aired the H1 shows. So that was originally where RuPaul's Drag Race was on and that's where I watched it. And they originally watched it because it reminded me so much of America's Next Talk model, which also is problematic in its own way. But anyways, in this like first, like season one Vaseline lens era, they also had a cruise that they like would go on in the first few seasons, and I went on that cruise because I was like oh my God, I love this show. This is amazing. This is when we first started dating.
Speaker 1:Yeah, first start, so this is like 10 years Plus, like 10, 11 years ago.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And like some of these people, I remember I went by myself like that's the level of dedication Right, braver than the Marines, braver than the Marines. But like some of these people on there were just like I guess the level of like I don't know appreciation and culture for drag in Canada was not the same as it is in the US, and so I was there and people were just like following these queens around and like being very creepy and weird and I was just like I'm just here to like have a good time.
Speaker 2:So have a good time. So have a good time. So have a good time. So have a good time. So have a good time. So have a good time.
Speaker 1:So have a good time, have a good time. And so I was like kind of like it was more of like, I guess a parasocial relationship where I'm like I enjoy these people on this show. I am coming to, like you know, provide I am buying their merch, which will hopefully go into their, their pockets, per se, and you know I'll get a picture with them, but like they're also on vacation, so like let's not be weird yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I remember you messaging me. Did you have a roommate in that one? Yes, with somebody who you met online.
Speaker 1:No, we got paired up in, like. There was a Facebook group for people who like if you wanted to go on this cruise but you didn't, you were like alone. They would just pair you up with people.
Speaker 2:So yeah, and I remember you saying something like they're a lot Like I like drag race, but yeah, they like drag race.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Anyways, I feel like that's also that it stands.
Speaker 3:Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Very different. So, yeah, I think it's. It's even then like if we're thinking about like 10 years ago. I feel like stan culture has come like it's gotten, it's come through so many iterations and gotten so much more toxic. But I feel like that's also because the internet has changed.
Speaker 3:That's right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's absolutely right.
Speaker 3:Like I remember, remember when Tumblr first launched, or whatever. I feel like I've always thought that Stan culture, as we know it now, started on Tumblr.
Speaker 3:That's how I feel as a baby millennial, because I remember being on there and that's where Lady Gaga's little monsters hung out. And I remember very much being in that sphere, even though I wasn't as embedded as the typical Stan, but I was definitely there and I remember there being a very strong Britney Spears support group up there too. And then, once Instagram and Twitter got more popular and then as all the celebrities started getting on social media, that's when shit got crazy, because all of a sudden it wasn't just talking to other fans about how much you love this artist, it was also about trying to get the artist's attention. And I remember, especially on Twitter, anytime Lady Gaga tweeted, you would see a bunch of people with Lady Gaga profile pictures being like step on me, mommy. I can't even say the other things that I remember seeing, but you know what.
Speaker 3:I'm getting at. Once people started using social media to get the attention of their fave. I think that's when it got to where it is now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I would say too that, like it can be used for, there's this duality of it being used for good and bad.
Speaker 3:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:There's good instances where you can have this interaction with like your fave and you're like, oh my god, they talk to me.
Speaker 2:They're just like me, for real.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like I think back in those early days of the internet, rupaul actually responded to me because I mentioned like I read their RuPaul. Oh my god, how embarrassing I was. Like, oh my god, they responded to me because I read their book. But like what? That's not RuPaul, rupaul's intern. Let's be real.
Speaker 3:No, like I remember with one of my like mutuals from Britney Spears Tumblr, we were on Twitter trying to get Britney to notice us. Whoever was running Britney's account, she would do follow sprees Like I remember, celebrities would do follow sprees for their fans, Me and this one person. We were like, okay, we're going to make a suicide pack to get Britney Spears to follow us and then, like 10 minutes later, she followed us. So it's like I would not tweet that shit now but looking back on it specifically, like in that timeline, like that's incredible, Britney Spears followed me because I tried to commit suicide. Like in 2023, that would not fly.
Speaker 2:Well, I would get canceled for that.
Speaker 1:But back then it was pretty funny and I think too oh, chrissy Teigen like, oh god yeah, like Chrissy Teigen is problematic and a whole other like that's a whole other conversation. However, I think when all of her old tweets got unearthed, like Chrissy Teigen was tweeting like a stan for a long time, that was kind of her thing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was like I found her annoying, but like that was kind of her thing. That's how, like everyone tweeted back then Right, we were all kind of unhinged, and that's kind of what is happening on threads right now.
Speaker 1:Everyone's like everything's been taken off. We can just be crazy again.
Speaker 2:Gen Z is not wrong in saying millennials are cringe, like we are, so cringe.
Speaker 3:We're pretty cringe. Yeah we are so cringe.
Speaker 1:We are very cringe.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I will. What do they?
Speaker 1:expect. It's true, we are yeah.
Speaker 3:But we have to be cringe to survive this Like, if I can't be cringe, I may as well just die.
Speaker 1:But I think that was just the way people communicated. It was very dramatic. It was very dramatic. So I think you know you take stan culture. You birth it in this era where everything is so dramatic. Everything is like yeah, this is a normal way of speaking and we're just like this is how it's birthed. And then celebrities are like, okay, well that I'm engaging in this because and then it just gets it further, perpetuates the toxicity, and then when celebrities are like, oh wait, this is bad, I don't, I don't want to engage in this any longer. I know there were two TV shows that I worked and I did social media on, one of which had a huge fandom attached to it, and I remember we wanted to engage with some of that fandom, but the star of the show were like no, like, they're making weird fan art of us, they're making like stories on AO3.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like this was their first exposure to fan fiction. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Oh, my sweet summer child.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like they had never seen that kind of stuff and they were like, yeah, no, we don't, we don't want to engage with any of it. It's like the first, it's like they had never been on the internet before and I'm like, oh, my sweet summer child, yeah, I'm like we can engage with this stuff, but like we don't have to engage with it. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 3:Like we can like set a boundary, that's fine. But there are normal people. There are people who behave normally, like yeah like we don't have to you don't have to like engage with, like the crazy people, you can just, you can just be chill, it's fine.
Speaker 2:You can do the fan fiction ones, but maybe you stay away from the real life fan fiction ones.
Speaker 3:Oh God yeah.
Speaker 2:Fan fiction.
Speaker 3:And now I'm having flashbacks to One Direction Tumblr, which I was not on. I did not like One Direction, like whatsoever, yeah, but it was inescapable. It was inescapable to see, like Harry Lewis, fan fiction ship wars Like it was. That was crazy.
Speaker 2:That's how Brittany Rusky got her start.
Speaker 1:Is it? Yeah, I don't I. You're more into Brittany than I am.
Speaker 2:Brittany Stant. No, oh my God.
Speaker 3:What am I missing?
Speaker 1:Well, it feels, yeah, it's. It's a very chaotic little like subculture that either can go very, very poorly or very, very. I just going to say well, but I'm like, is that the right word to use? That's subjective, yeah.
Speaker 2:What were you saying about Ariana Grande before? I was like, oh yes.
Speaker 1:Sorry.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I feel like we need to address the, the grande in the room, yeah, yes, let's address the grande in the room, all right?
Speaker 3:So one of the things I'm unfortunately most known for on the internet is my little spat with Ariana Grande. This was back in 2019, in the before times. This was when she had just released Thank you Next, like the album, and she had been getting a lot of shit because she was slowly like descending into like this, very like this kind of like racist caricature and she would speak in like very butchered a V. She had a very dark spray tan and when seven rings came out like a lot of my timeline was roasting her because Ariana Grande was rapping about the weave that she just bought.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean like, yeah, so, and then this was also around the time she got seven rings in Japanese tattooed on the palm of her hand and, rather than get the right translation even though she had been learning Japanese for some time by that point the translation worked out to little grill finger, like little barbecue finger. I loved her. I used to like, I loved her music. She was everything to me. I was not a stan, but I was a very big fan and, especially like, with all the like with the Manchester bombings and kind of her advocacy around mental health, I like, really admired her for being able to, you know, still be this kind of like, this light amidst this darkness, and how she, you know, spoke the truth to so much of what so many of us deal with. But then all this stuff started happening, with her being very white and getting Japanese tattoos and all this stuff. So, in April of 2019, she tweeted about how all of them people working at them blogs will one day realize how unfulfilled and purposeless their lives are and that they will find something else to do with their lives, and I can't wait for them to feel lit inside. I had just gotten off a red-eye flight and, like all of my all of my journalists group chats were going off and everyone was roasting her and so I quote, tweeted her and, mind you, like this was not my first time tweeting at her, like she had never noticed me before, even when I like sung her praises about you know how good Sweetener was, or whatever nothing from her. So it wasn't until I called her a culture vulture, spoiled white girl from Bokeh, rattan, florida, that she actually noticed me. So, like like you were saying earlier Emma, like Stan, like interacting with celebrities is very like online is a very mixed bag. Sometimes it goes great, sometimes it doesn't go so great. Because I had followed so many journalists on Twitter, we were all joking about it.
Speaker 3:I started to get traction on that tweet and by the time I was, you know, back at my hotel and, like trying to wash the flight off of me, ariana was in my DMs. She was like, just you know, like I didn't mean all journalists are like purposeless. The piece that you wrote about Britney Spears is mental health is really beautiful and I'm just sending you love. And then, literally a minute later, she writes actually based on your recent tweets, not so much and I'm like my first tweet calls you a culture vulture and tells you to suck on my balls. I don't know why you're going. Oh, your work is really important, sending you so much love. Just kidding, jk. Yeah, in the moment, like I was like oh my God, ariana Grande is talking to me. That's crazy. I love her so much. But then, at the same time, I'm like but you're so annoying, it was very like disorienting. And then, you know, we kept exchanging DMs and then her fans started calling like oh, her fans were going off, specifically her stands were going off.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I ended up getting doxxed, not at my right address, but at the address that I had lived in as a kid. Ariana Grande stands doxxed me.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:They were sending me all kinds of shit about like I hope the trauma from your rape gets worse. Go eat a cat, you ugly cheng chong it was. It was bad, it was intense. I showed Ariana some of this shit and she was like, well, I don't love that behavior from them, but your tweets were hostile and my fans are just returning the energy that they got from you and I'm like, okay, I feel like that would not be the takeaway.
Speaker 1:Like not to like totally interrupt your story, but I don't know if you remember. Do you remember when Lizzo ordered? I can't remember if it was DoorDash or it was something and the I guess, like the person who is delivering her order it either. They didn't bring her.
Speaker 3:Something happened.
Speaker 1:Something happened, but then Lizzo tweeted out. Lizzo basically doxxed this delivery driver and all of Lizzo's stands basically like went and fucking found this woman. It was a woman, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:And then Lizzo asked her and yeah, and I'm pretty sure, like the the, you know whatever happened with the delivery wasn't her fault. It's like Lizzo didn't pick up the phone, or something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, cuz I I'm pretty sure like before this woman, whatever happened, she like posted the receipts being like. I tried to contact her and she didn't pick up.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's exactly it. Yeah, that's exactly what happened.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's like it makes me think of that, because Sometimes I feel like these celebrities are so like they get so popular, they get so famous, they make all this money that they kind of like lose sight what it means to be a normal human being, human right, that's exactly it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like you and I, I'm almost positive that I've seen you write about this or post about this. But it's like you have an audience and you, whatever you post to them, whatever you put on your platforms, like you control what they're. Like you control what they do, especially if there stands they're following what you say.
Speaker 3:There's like two sides to it. It's like, of course, like I, I, you, like one person can't control everybody, and their stand-bates especially. I think she had like a Million followers back then.
Speaker 3:Yeah so I don't like, I don't expect her to like control every Single person, like acting out on her behalf, but at the same time, like she didn't say anything, like you have an option to be like hey, like to say this publicly, like oh hey, I don't condone this, like stop doing this, like immediately. But this woman, ariana Grande, hey, all she did, she, someone, some stand was in my, in my, in my mentions, being like, oh, don't worry, ari, we're gonna handle her. And then Ariana Grande replied there's no need. And then, like I think maybe five, ten minutes later, she deleted the comp, she deleted her reply, which is worse than saying anything at all. Yep, like it's been how fucking long is it? It's been like four years now.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3:Yeah, four years. I Still like I haven't noticed anything recently. But I know that even just like last year, I still had our own a cron fans tweeting about me, like I have a collage of Everything not everything, but like I have a collage of like various things that they've said about me Without me doing anything for years, like I've lived rent free in their heads. I've been their babysitter. Ariana Grande is not even on Twitter anymore. She hasn't been on Twitter since like 2021 or something and there's still like talking about me like I killed her puppy.
Speaker 1:They're like die mad. I thought you were gonna say something, oh no, I was just like it's wild like yeah.
Speaker 2:I feel like they're. There has to be some kind of awareness, being like, should I say this cuz I am huge, I am like, internationally known and this person is a person and Can I? Is it responsible of me to direct all of this hate towards this person and that's? I just don't understand how that Doesn't like there's no alarm bells, there's no even external PR, people being like, hey, don't, maybe, maybe not that, because Right, just from a marketing perspective.
Speaker 3:Like, you have these people using your likeness as their profile picture. They are Associated with your name and you're saying all this racist shit. You're doing all of this like gamer gate shit. Don't you want to like say something? Don't you want to like control your brand?
Speaker 2:Well, I remember I feel like that was a thing with, like, the people who had BTS photos and their Twitter profile picture. It's like don't fuck with them, like do not know, they are like the hotel. Don't fuck with them.
Speaker 3:One like I don't listen to kpop. That's like the one part of Twitter I will not fuck with. I will mind my business. Yep, I can fight those battles. It's not gonna be.
Speaker 1:I didn't even like I remember I just, I think I quote tweeted something about BTS. One time. They were at like I don't know the Emmys or the Oscars or fucking the Mek Gala, I don't know. It was something like that and I was just like love this suit. Literally. That tweet like got retweeted like a bajillion times.
Speaker 3:It was like the most innocuous, like mundane tweets it's always the tweets that you don't put any thought into that get the most traction, like it's, and.
Speaker 1:I was like, okay, cool, thank you, bts army, like Sure, All right, I guess, like I don't understand, have you watched swarm?
Speaker 3:No, no we were heard of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah we watched the first episode I didn't we watch.
Speaker 1:No, we watched two episodes, okay. Yeah, I've heard mixed things. I've heard some people say it's really, really great and then I've heard some people say it's like it's alright, but I know that it has so much to do with like stan culture. It's loosely based based on like Beyonce. Yeah, it's interesting that now these like Actual shows are like being based on stan culture. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:We wouldn't have had anything like that, like, let's say, like back in like 2016, no, like stan. Culture was such like a niche, like weirdo thing, but now it's kind of become mainstream as more celebrities have like adopted.
Speaker 1:I've kind of normalized it, stan culture, too, was mostly seen as like things that were in Nerd subcultures as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just to say, I blame Marvel. We're making it cool to be a nerd.
Speaker 1:No, that's absolutely right yeah yeah, I was gonna say, what about Rick and Morty?
Speaker 2:Nope, nope, nope, nope. Those are.
Speaker 3:I'm good.
Speaker 2:I feel like fairly innocuous fans. They're just kind of cringy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally.
Speaker 2:It's like red flag if your idol is Rick Sanchez. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's interesting too because, like, we're now seeing it sort of stream into their shows being made about it, but then also we're seeing fans, stan culture kind of work its way into modern day politics as well.
Speaker 2:I mean, oh god, yeah, that's how a Trump won an election.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, making that connection. Like every time I've made that connection before, but like every time I hear it again, I'm like it's so depressing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, especially, yeah, yeah, like, yeah, I will never forget the I forget which election it was, but the Elizabeth Warren staffers getting like the bone and blood or whatever, tattoos. Yes, I was like you know what, did you know? Like do you not know history? Like you don't know, you didn't think about before getting a tattoo. That kind of ties back to the Nazis and you're doing this over an American politician. Starting it's yeah, we're here in this very moment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally, or one of the things. Do you remember all of the yang gang stuff?
Speaker 3:Like.
Speaker 1:I don't think anybody took him seriously as a politician. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Also, but like, didn't he make a rap video or didn't he have some type of rap?
Speaker 2:I just knew he was like really into crypto, that's how it works.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:I think I've repressed most of my knowledge about Andrew Yang, apart from his stupid like one like. Not that I'm against UBI, but it was a very like empty, like campaign promise where he was like $1,000 to everyone every month but no social security whatsoever. Yeah, yeah, almost got it. Yeah, almost got it, almost there.
Speaker 1:So close, so close.
Speaker 2:But yeah, bernie Bros.
Speaker 1:Bernie Bros.
Speaker 2:Bernie Bros.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like Bernie Bros are probably the worst.
Speaker 2:Mind you no no Trump. No, yeah, no, I also yeah. I don't know if they were self identified as Bernie Bros, and I think they would probably take offense to being called a Bernie Bro. Maybe, I don't know, I'm not a Bernie Bro, but I liked his mittens.
Speaker 3:Right, I liked his mask.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we stan, we stan Exactly.
Speaker 3:Oh no, oh no. That's exactly what we're trying to not do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think, like the whole stan culture around sort of American politics because, let's be honest, canadian politics there's not really any of that, I think.
Speaker 3:No, we hate every single politician like almost equally.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're just. I think Kerteliev has like some borderline.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, yeah but like by and large.
Speaker 2:No, like we're not. We don't see true no stands. We don't see like Jackie Sian's dance.
Speaker 1:Well, I was going to say Jagmeet, saying he has probably the closest, but mostly I think people are just really into his TikToks. Yeah, let's be honest.
Speaker 3:I was going to say I'm like Jagmeet's, like he's cool, like that, like he does like kind of like try to talk to the people in the same way that, like like an American politician would like he's. He tries to become like, put himself across as like relatable yeah, and that kind of stuff, which is fine, but it's when you start, it's like. I don't know what it is, but it's like part of it is also like American politicians will literally sell merch as part of their like campaign.
Speaker 3:And I'm like you're not a rock star Like Joe Biden, with like the fly swatter, like be so fucking serious, you guys.
Speaker 2:I remember my mom Be so serious. My mom went to the States during an election year and she brought back John Kerry and George Bush pens from my brother and I. Oh what?
Speaker 1:Like you're a child. Why would you want that?
Speaker 2:I don't know, it was such a weird flex. I used it. It was an okay pen.
Speaker 1:That was the point.
Speaker 2:It was fancy.
Speaker 1:Did it have a little like?
Speaker 2:yeah, it was like a thick pen with John Kerry's face on it.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's even more terrifying.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Do you know what would have been cooler if, like it was one of those?
Speaker 2:Newdy pens. Yeah, new pens Open upside down and his clothes come off, yeah.
Speaker 3:Oh capitalism, oh capitalism. What have you done to us?
Speaker 2:It was really popped off today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, capitalism really popped off. And of course, lest we forget, make America great again.
Speaker 2:Americans love a like I feel like it's not exclusive to Americans, but especially love a tech line like make America great again.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they love a good slogan, yeah.
Speaker 2:Remember the change posters.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, all the change posters.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:It really I think part of it like it's a capitalism thing, like at the root of all evil is capitalism.
Speaker 2:The ultimate stands.
Speaker 1:Yeah, america stands America stands. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I already can't go to the States Like. Actually, that just reminded me of you not going to the States. The Ron DeSantis video have you seen? Please tell me you've seen that.
Speaker 3:I have, I know. No, I haven't.
Speaker 1:You're like, I wish to not acknowledge it.
Speaker 3:I don't know, I, no, I genuinely do not know what you're talking about.
Speaker 1:Oh, you need to describe it, it's like a.
Speaker 2:It's like a doom edit of like Ron DeSantis doing like a pro gamer moment on Donald Trump and like it's just interspliced with like memes and like the like Christian Bale and American Psycho walking down the hall and like I'm just like.
Speaker 3:Boomers should not be using memes. Those were not created for you.
Speaker 1:And and wasn't there a clip? He used some like gladiator, that is, like notoriously known for being gay.
Speaker 2:I feel like that happens.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then it was a. They were doing the before the like the smash cut. They want a tie or the creator of going nope. And it's like do you know anything about tiger? Of a creator? He is like the most ambiguously Mm. Hmm.
Speaker 1:It. He isn't he gay person in the face of the planet. Thank you, I wouldn't like I feel bad being like you should go watch this. But also so many people were like is is this for real?
Speaker 2:but it actually came from the Ron DeSantis team account and even his supporters were like what the fuck are you doing?
Speaker 1:yeah. He dumped on himself so hard and even the Rhonda Sanchez stands were like the same it we're going to have to retreat? Yeah, we can't support.
Speaker 2:Took an L on this one, guys.
Speaker 3:This is what happens when boomers use means about.
Speaker 1:Like he. He hired some Gen Z to do a social and they presented the creative and he was like that's great, we're going to speak to a whole new audience posted it and the boomers were like not like it.
Speaker 3:That Gen Z was just like what's roses motherfucker right now.
Speaker 1:I mean, I loved it because it was so terrible just yeah, it watches like satire, like 100%.
Speaker 2:It's like my need camp.
Speaker 1:It's the best form of camp yeah, unintentional camp yeah yeah, yeah, I don't know if you need a laugh today. I suggest you go watch that. Oh man, yeah, you may need to. That's like torture.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah yeah, it's a hate watch for sure. Get yourself in the right frame of mind. Have some aftercare like yeah.
Speaker 1:I also feel like we'll speak on this and then maybe we'll play a game Okay. But like, because I know that you're wearing your Brittany sweater. If it were not for the Brittany stands and the free Brittany movement, probably Brittany would not be. I mean, it's debatable whether Brittany is quote unquote free right now. Yeah, but like, brittany wouldn't be where she is today. Sometimes, when we talk about like, the positive, the positives of Stan culture, I think the free Brittany movement is probably a good example. Yeah, I totally agree with that.
Speaker 3:Like so many Britney Spears fans have known about the conservatorship since it started. Yeah, unfortunately, there's not going to be anyone who's more familiar with like the, the like very specific details of the celebrities life, like a Stan would. It sucks that it took so long for that to happen, because how long was that conservatorship? Like 12 years. It was crazy. It took a long time, but I feel like, had 2007, 2008, brittany happened like today, like because of social media, I don't know that there would. I don't think like her, her management team, including her father, would have had the opportunity to kind of like be as corrupt as they were, because everything now is kind of like so much more under public scrutiny. Yeah, and you know, like nowadays, like we're so much more social, like social justice conscious, that I feel like if we had seen that now, there would have been like way more pushback than there was back then, when there wasn't even Facebook.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean I look back on interviews, like watching so many of the documentaries that have come out. But I look back on some of that stuff and I'm like, wow, the shit that like Brittany, lindsay Lohan, paris Hilton, like that we put them through. Yeah, no wonder. So like they're traumatized and like, yeah, just went through it for a much longer period of time. Like she.
Speaker 2:She is not to rank traumas, but like yeah it is like I mean that Paris documentary where she's like. You can still see how much she's reeling from, like her childhood.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I still. There's an episode of the podcast, like early, I think, at our first season, where Danita and I talk about Kathy Hilton and I'm like 110%, kathy Hilton is a narcissist. Everybody in the Real Housewives like fandom is like Kathy Hilton is so great and I'm like that.
Speaker 2:No like, not at all.
Speaker 1:There's so many red flags in just the way that, like when Paris shows up around Kathy, she gets very like anxious. You know when, like a trauma survivor, trauma survivor, is that the right language to use.
Speaker 2:Anyways, I think you know what I mean, but like a survivor period.
Speaker 1:When they're around someone who has like abused them, they just like they present differently.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely. I know that viscerally like you, can, you can, like you can feel the tension. Yeah, yeah, like you can see the tension.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can see that, and there's just, there's just language that Kathy Hilton uses, where I'm like oh, I see you. You remind me of someone I also know, whose name I will not say.
Speaker 2:Legally cannot talk about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I'm sure they are listening and what's up?
Speaker 2:what's up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, anyways, but yes, all that to say, we stand with the Brittany stands because, honestly, like I don't think that she's free, I think there is still so much that we don't know what's going on with Brittany and the AI.
Speaker 2:I mean.
Speaker 3:I think she, like I don't think she's like 100% out of the woods yet, because she's still dealing with her family and like, even just like being in the midst of a legal process even though, like you know, you're not going to hearings every day it's the fact that she still has to deal with it at all, like she's definitely not as free as some people would like to think. Yep, and then, especially considering, like you still have people like speculating on her mental health right now. Like, oh, she's dancing on Instagram already. Like still, oh, she's topless. Like she should have stayed in the conservatorship.
Speaker 3:Like that's, yeah, that's like that's like another thing about Stan culture. It's they like Stan, like Stan's, make your business their business and it's like it's that parasocial relationship again, where maybe they don't have anything else going on in their lives that they have to like consume the celebrities like daily life because they have nothing else to do and that's how they derive their like sense of self worth.
Speaker 1:And purpose, I would say yeah, do you want to play a game?
Speaker 2:Do you want to buy a game, play a game, do you want to play a game? All of the Stan, like the standings have like yeah, have very like specific names and we. I went through the Wikipedia list of fandom.
Speaker 3:There's a Wikipedia list.
Speaker 2:There is, and I want to talk about how successful the names are if taken literally. So the example is the BTS army has an actual army and I'm like that would be successful.
Speaker 3:I mean, oh, yes, I think we are going to cover that.
Speaker 2:There are already an army. I'm like if they asked them to mobilize.
Speaker 3:Didn't they like flood? Some Republicans like wasn't it a Trump rally or something? They they, but they signed up to be at a rally.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Booked out the seats so they thought that they're they actually couldn't let anyone more in, and then nobody showed up and it was great.
Speaker 3:So yeah, they would definitely be. The BTS army would definitely be successful.
Speaker 2:I spices munchkins as denizens of Oz. Apparently they're called munchkins, oh yeah.
Speaker 3:I was like Okay.
Speaker 2:Party.
Speaker 3:Intervene munchkins. And yeah, I can see that.
Speaker 2:Well, they certainly don't live in Oz.
Speaker 1:No, they do not. They live in, they live on her or on tiktok.
Speaker 2:Yes, kesha's animals as literal animals.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh yeah, I can see that, yeah, yeah yeah, like, technically humans are animals, but like yeah.
Speaker 2:They're more akin to animals than.
Speaker 1:Also like Kesha, is very like. With everything that Kesha has gone through, I just feel like her fans are right there with her.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:I can see that.
Speaker 2:Lady Gaga's little monsters as literal monsters.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah yes, yeah, some of the little monsters they're going to show up like no matter like they travel to her shows they dress up, they cosplay, as they'd be great monsters.
Speaker 3:They're like the original, like I feel like that's like the first fan base to get their own name. Yes, so the like, the like eldritch monster kind of like connotations. It's like, yes, definitely I could. I could see Lady Gaga's little monsters being actual monsters.
Speaker 2:Madonna wannabes is apparently what they call Madonna fans. So I'm like, I guess, madonna impersonators.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I can definitely see that.
Speaker 1:But like wannabe sounds like.
Speaker 2:It's so demeaning to oh. Oh yeah, I was going to say it.
Speaker 3:it sounds kind of shady yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh, you want to be Madonna and like I guess it yeah weird one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, also, before we continue, madonna's really like her journey through like getting older has gotten very strange.
Speaker 2:Have you seen like?
Speaker 1:ticktocks, no, okay, well, if you ever have time and you want to see someone being like I'm old and I'm on ticktock, and I'm just trying to relate to the youth.
Speaker 2:Where she did poppers on the.
Speaker 1:Internet yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, ticktock, how do you do fellow kids?
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah. Just full, a full blown like mid-interview, did poppers for the first time and they're like.
Speaker 1:Girl. What the fuck are you doing? Yeah, madonna is not aging. Gracefully, is all I have to say.
Speaker 2:We are not Madonna wannabes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no yeah. If I was a Madonna wannabe I'd be like, oh girl. Also, imagine you're Madonna's kid and you're having to watch that it just comes up on your TikTok one day and you're like mom, that's so crisp.
Speaker 3:You're embarrassing me.
Speaker 2:You're embarrassing me.
Speaker 1:Continue.
Speaker 2:Mariah carries lambs, as, I guess, as baby sheep, or Jesus, I guess.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean stands are kind of like they follow their leader wherever they go.
Speaker 2:So I can I see in my mind, my mind went to like the gentleness metaphor and I'm like interesting, I'm not, that's a, that's like a term of endearment and I'm like okay.
Speaker 3:That's cute. Yeah, that's like one of the. I feel like that's one of the better fan base names.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is.
Speaker 2:Michael Jackson's moonwalkers. They're not lunar rovers, for sure.
Speaker 3:No and I bet they can't really do the moonwalk either.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I'm like I'm sure there are, there would be a better.
Speaker 3:There's got to be a better name for them. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh, Lost Boys.
Speaker 3:Neverland, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Damn Miley Cyrus's Smilers.
Speaker 3:That's just creepy, isn't it? Yeah, so creepy Like. That sounds like a horror movie to me. Yeah, it sounds what Like no, no.
Speaker 2:Apparently it was a nickname that she had as a kid, but I'm like, no, no, if you call me a smiler, I'm like.
Speaker 1:Don't you tell me to smile. Yeah, like, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:Are you calling me a slur Like I don't? I don't like that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's creepy, I'm getting weird, it's weird. I'm kind of like, can that yeah?
Speaker 2:My chemical romance Killjoy's. I guess they're generally unfun people to be around. As a my chemical romance fan, not Stan but fan I'm like, yeah, I'm genuine, generally not fun to be around, I guess Exactly I'm like I'm telling you. Oh, oh, this one, ricky Martin's Sexy Souls. No Hot ghosts, Hot ghosts baby.
Speaker 3:Once again creepy. It's so creepy.
Speaker 1:It's so what constitutes a hot ghost?
Speaker 2:Oh, you'd know one, if you saw one.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's fair. Yeah, do you know what that reminds me of?
Speaker 2:The librarian and Ghostbusters no.
Speaker 1:When we were watching the other two, and it was the blob is gay oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:What makes the blob gay? Because he's in bed with another blob and not a human woman. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:We have slipknot maggots as larval flies, I guess.
Speaker 3:I mean okay, like, okay, sure, okay, yeah, who am I going to? Who am I to say what someone can be or not? Yeah, yeah, yeah, like, like, like, like, really.
Speaker 2:The slipknot lore goes deep.
Speaker 1:I feel like Well, I, oh god For sure, you know who I thought you were referring to at first. Insane clown posse. No, those are juggalos.
Speaker 2:Yeah, those are juggalos, yeah, and I was going to put on the list, but I was like I don't actually know, like the roots or the behind the scenes, the BTS of the juggalos.
Speaker 3:That's crazy. Well, I mean, these names are crazy, I know yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, read the article. It's like a great like they do number signs in A through Z and it's like what.
Speaker 1:I was going to say Lots of armies, but like juggalos would they make good clowns.
Speaker 2:Well, I don't necessarily associate juggalos, as, like a clown, I assume juggalers, but singular, like there's espresso or espresso, yeah, juggalo, juggalee, I will say that Ariana Grande's fan base being called Arionators Stop, and I know she hates it.
Speaker 3:I know I remember her hating that name.
Speaker 2:That's like.
Speaker 3:And that's that's the only one that stuck.
Speaker 2:That's like Terminator kind of like and, based on your experience, that sounds fairly like relentless and path forward.
Speaker 3:Like yeah, and I guess some of these are just like these, some of these are just bad like avatar. Avatar fans are called avatars.
Speaker 2:I brought that up to Amazon I was like holy shit, like we can't, they, they can't do that, they can't get away with it.
Speaker 3:What are these?
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're bad, the big.
Speaker 2:Lebowski fans are achievers after the little achiever program in the big Lebowski.
Speaker 3:Okay. Okay, but like Cumberbatch Cumberbitches.
Speaker 2:Cumberbitches.
Speaker 3:Some of y'all need better marketing departments, I know. Yeah.
Speaker 1:The fans they need to like. Have a, have a meeting. Yeah, they need to have a meeting and be like.
Speaker 2:We need to rebrand.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:They need someone who knows marketing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like.
Speaker 3:Charlie XCX's fan base. They're just called Angels, Like that's normal. Yeah. Yeah, because really it's Angels, that's normal, yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh, I didn't even piece that together. That is a clever fan base name because it's in Deering and yeah, okay, okay, okay yeah. We stan Hyperpop.
Speaker 3:Conan O'Brien has stands.
Speaker 2:Yes, oh yeah, there was a whole. There was a whole thing on Reddit back in the day of Conan O'Brien's stands. It was wild, like that was back when I was in university, so like, oh God, like 15 years ago.
Speaker 1:I wonder if Conan O'Brien would have adapted my coconuts by Kim Petrus as oh yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's the game.
Speaker 3:That's crazy.
Speaker 1:I love that you're like. Your face right now is just like what the fuck? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Dr who fans is Whobeans which.
Speaker 1:I mean, I can get.
Speaker 3:I can understand that, yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes sense Hamilton and American musical Hamel fans.
Speaker 2:That's nothing. That's like they were like so basic the brainstorming session. They were like no bad ideas. And somebody threw that out there and the rest were like they said no bad ideas.
Speaker 3:Hayden Christensen stands Stanikens. Okay, that's pretty funny.
Speaker 1:Hayden Christensen stands yeah, Did he just have the what like? Wasn't he just in Star Wars? Has he been in more movies?
Speaker 2:I'm interested in more movies, but like he was okay.
Speaker 3:He was in a movie called Little Italy. It's set in Toronto. Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 1:It's so bad, it's yeah.
Speaker 3:I remember seeing he puts on Italian face to do Italian.
Speaker 2:Oh no.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I remember seeing, oh no.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's actually kind of like it's fun, emma Roberts is opposite of him. Yes, I remember this.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, yeah, we watched it it was on Netflix, wasn't it?
Speaker 1:No, we didn't.
Speaker 2:We didn't watch it, do we not? No, do we watch a trailer. We watch a trailer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, we watch a trailer, it's basically the same.
Speaker 3:It's the same as seeing Right, yeah, I mean it was funny, like it was unintentionally funny, that's what I would say. It was unintentionally funny, I feel like that's just as good, right?
Speaker 1:Maybe Pardon.
Speaker 2:Naive camp.
Speaker 1:Naive camp. Yes, yes, yes, exactly, naive camp. Well, that's the episode.
Speaker 2:That's the episode.
Speaker 1:That is the episode. Absolutely, Roslyn. It was such a blast having you on Before we wrap everything up. I want you to tell everybody where they can find you, plug yourself and what you've got going on.
Speaker 3:You can find me running my mouth on Twitter. That's like the extent of my capacity right now. I do have a website where you can find all my writing, especially, you know, the stuff about Ariana Grande. It's literally just roslyntolucincom, and you can find me same name on Twitter, same name on Instagram, which I don't use. That's it, that's me.
Speaker 1:And we will make sure to link all of that in our show notes. Perfect, amazing. Am I missing anything else? Well, great Party. Okay, that was so fun. What an episode. I had such a blast.
Speaker 2:talking to Roslyn, it was a very good time. Also the Ariana Grande story. Unreal, yeah, unreal.
Speaker 1:I think we can all agree that stands are a little bit unhinged At the best of times. Yes, and also if you are a stan of anything and you're listening to this. Sorry, not sorry. Yeah, like, maybe just take a step back and reflect. Like I said to one of my co-workers on Friday, it's time for us to log off and go touch grass.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's time for us to log off and go touch grass. It is.
Speaker 1:Do you want to tell everyone where they can find us?
Speaker 2:You can find us basically everywhere at high low brow pod H-I-G-H low brow pod on Instagram. Tiktok not Twitter, not X. No Threads though. Yeah, we're on threads, we're on threads and you can find us on the website, at highlowbrowpodcom. You can leave us a review, you can leave us a voicemail.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we love when there's reviews. It helps us show up more in the quote unquote algorithms.
Speaker 2:Yep, I'll go.
Speaker 1:We have a link in our Instagram bio where you can go and leave us a voicemail If there's something that you would like us to feature in a future episode. Or let's just say there's a topic that's on your mind and you haven't heard anybody really talk about it. We got you.
Speaker 2:Well, I feel like we should like because people are just going to turn off as soon as the end part's done and they're not going to we should start doing something to sign off. Oh, should we? Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, what should we do?
Speaker 2:I hadn't got that far.
Speaker 1:Okay, x can give it to you.
Speaker 2:No, it's not that, it's definitely not that you think about it, we'll think about it. Well, next week, yeah, next episode.
Speaker 1:We'll reconvene and come back to it. What's the next episode about? It's a mini episode. It's a mini episode, so we could continue our discussions about Vanderpump.
Speaker 2:We can we?
Speaker 1:could also discuss, which we didn't talk about in the intro going to see the Teenage Mutant.
Speaker 2:Ninja Turtles movie. Which it was it was so good, it was so much fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but we're not going to spoil it. We're supposed to be ending.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're ending Okay, it's over.
Speaker 1:It's over, it's all over. Thank you everyone for listening. Thank you, bye, bye.