Discover the captivating depths of 'I Saw the TV Glow' in our latest episode! Join us as we delve into the surrealistic psychological drama directed by Jane Schoenbrun. With an impressive 84% rating on Rotten Tomatoes, this film takes viewers on a mysterious journey exploring the profound bond between Maddie and Owen, centered around the TV show 'The Pink Opaque.'
As Maddie mysteriously vanishes for a decade, their silent yet powerful connection evolves, only to resurface with unsettling phenomena that challenge Owen's reality. Through intricate trans themes and gripping horror elements, 'I Saw the TV Glow' delivers a profound emotional impact that lingers long after the credits roll.
Tune in as we dissect what makes this film so compelling, delving into its themes of self-discovery and acceptance. Our wide-ranging discussions aim to enlighten and entertain, offering a comprehensive look at the importance of embracing one's true self.
Discover the captivating depths of 'I Saw the TV Glow' in our latest episode! Join us as we delve into the surrealistic psychological drama directed by Jane Schoenbrun. With an impressive 84% rating on Rotten Tomatoes, this film takes viewers on a mysterious journey exploring the profound bond between Maddie and Owen, centered around the TV show 'The Pink Opaque.'
As Maddie mysteriously vanishes for a decade, their silent yet powerful connection evolves, only to resurface with unsettling phenomena that challenge Owen's reality. Through intricate trans themes and gripping horror elements, 'I Saw the TV Glow' delivers a profound emotional impact that lingers long after the credits roll.
Tune in as we dissect what makes this film so compelling, delving into its themes of self-discovery and acceptance. Our wide-ranging discussions aim to enlighten and entertain, offering a comprehensive look at the importance of embracing one's true self.
Welcome to High Low Brow, the show with highbrow takes on lowbrow culture. I'm your one host, Amanda Scriver.
Speaker 2:And I'm your hot takes that are not well informed about pride river gilbert oh, that's nice.
Speaker 1:What's your hot take?
Speaker 2:oh, I don't have any. I've just been seeing a lot of them like remember, was it last year, the year before, where they were like there shouldn't be kink at pride and like this year it's straight men are should not be allowed at pride?
Speaker 1:I mean yeah, I agree with that.
Speaker 2:I don't.
Speaker 1:Oh, you want straight men to be there.
Speaker 2:I don't necessarily. Here's the thing.
Speaker 1:I'm like oh wow, controversial, yet brave statement.
Speaker 2:Well, the exact wording is by women. Leave your straight boyfriends at home and like yeah.
Speaker 1:On paper yeah, pre-transition, I looked like a straight boyfriend yeah, despite being bisexual yeah, I mean, where do, where do we?
Speaker 2:I well, we, we draw the line at Cops, at Pride.
Speaker 1:That's the line fair yeah yeah, I mean it. True, we can't really discern who is and isn't. However, we should all have like a little glowing tattoo.
Speaker 2:Oh my god, emma, I know you're alluding to the movie that we just watched.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that we're doing an entire episode about.
Speaker 2:I was like Emma, that's like glowing tattoos just sound a little too much like armbands Armbands, yeah, you know like Jewish stars during occupied Nazi, occupied Germany.
Speaker 1:Oh, I thought you were talking about sweatbands and I was like what? But? Yeah, oh yeah, that's not great yeah, let's not. But no, I was referring to the movie that we were talking about. Okay, yeah, thanks for taking it to a dark place. I'm glad we're all listen you're like listen we have a genocide happening, there's war crimes happening, we have to be so careful. I'm just trying to make sure that you're not canceled on the internet exactly well, I appreciate that what are we talking about this week?
Speaker 1:uh, we are talking about a film that we went and saw recently, but also that has come out and I've been reading a lot about. I have not been on the tis, the tis talk, the tis talk, the tick talk algorithm for it. You have, though, but it's called. I saw the tv glow. Yeah, what? Who is the director behind this?
Speaker 1:the director is jane schoenbrunn, also trans we love a trans, yeah lots lots of trans involvement in this film yeah, I remember the way I found out about it was because I have a tiff membership and it was first playing at TIFF and I was like this sounds like a great film. It sounds like the type of film that we would want to see. It sounds queer, it sounds like it has some horror thriller elements to it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:This sounds like a film that we would want to see.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I went into it after seeing like a few trans TikTok creators being like oh yeah, you're just going to sob for this entire movie and I was like, oh cool, I love ugly crying in public. Being like ha ha, I bet you won't have that effect on me. Surprise, I did.
Speaker 1:I know it was when we were sitting beside each other. There was like a certain point where I could hear you kind of like sniffling to yourself and I was like oh no.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's starting.
Speaker 1:I think, I think River is crying.
Speaker 2:Oh.
Speaker 1:I think they're doing that thing that they said they were going to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then, like at the like, the last scene is just like the biggest gut punch you can imagine.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But maybe we should not start at the end and maybe start at the beginning.
Speaker 2:Okay, so let's I think we need to have two disclaimers one is a content warning for like self-harm and the second is a spoiler warning. Yeah, you should definitely. I was gonna say you should definitely go see it. But, like I also have the caveat of if I had seen this pre-transition and we'll get into it, because there was a period of time where I was like, yeah, I'm trans, I'm just not going to transition and had I seen that during that time, I don't know if I could have handled that so and I think we probably and this our experiences of the film are quite different.
Speaker 2:Very different.
Speaker 1:And this is not to say like and we had a conversation about this after we saw the film you have sort of like experienced this film. The way that you have sort of like taken in what this film is is quite different than my experience. Now that doesn't mean it's any less or not better, or whatever it just means that they're different.
Speaker 2:You, you can probably have a more objective stance on it as a film than I can like I was texting my brother earlier and like telling him about it and I was like, yeah, emma gave it like a 7 or an 8 out of 10. Uh, and I can't rate it without, because whenever I think about it I start crying yeah, like definitely object.
Speaker 1:Objectively it's a good film and like the story writing is good A24.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's an A24 film.
Speaker 1:So like it's a good film in the sense that, like you know what you're getting into From my standpoint with my issues with the film, and I'm using air quotes- right now issues quote unquote were at some points I felt like some of the not methodology, the theming, the metaphors yeah the metaphors, the theming.
Speaker 1:Sometimes it felt very heavy handed in the sense of how they were explaining things or how they were trying to get us to interpret things. And I think, because the film is a trans allegory, because it is talking about, you know, pre-transition, it's transitioning, what that means for an individual.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I think you know if you are and I explain this to you as well if you're just like Jane or Well, not Jane, because Jane directed it. I was going to say Jane Doe, but like yeah. If you're just a random person off of the street who is a cis normative straight person, who is not involved in any queer community, who is not like socially woke in any way, which like it would be very strange for you to be just randomly walking into this film yeah, but if you were.
Speaker 2:For whatever reason, I think that is why some of the heavy-handedness is happening yeah, so I guess we should like give a high level overview before we get into it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, People are like yeah, what is this?
Speaker 2:What I should. I see it so it's. Did you ever get into creepypastas?
Speaker 1:I know what they are, yeah.
Speaker 2:So there was one called Candle Cove where, basically, like it's on a form and people are talking about this show that they remember playing at a very particular time and turns out that it doesn't exist and it's just like this shared hallucination. It's similar to that. So it's the owen and is this uh grade seven kid and he wants to watch this show called the pink opaque and it's on like in in this world.
Speaker 2:It's like an adult it's it's the last show on saturday nights before they switched to black and white yeah, but it's on like a channel that's like.
Speaker 1:It's like nickelodeon yeah, nickelodeon or adult swim or something like that. Yeah, so something, something like, or Adult Swim or something like that. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Something like Nick at Night.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Aimed at the tweens.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:What.
Speaker 1:I loved is as they were sort of showing us doing this storytelling, building this world for us. They showed the very 80s, 90s sort of how children's television looked and felt yeah. Which I thought was amazing.
Speaker 2:Well, it was so funny. As soon as the first commercial came on like five minutes in, I was like oh, it's Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
Speaker 1:Yes, Like huge Buffy vibes. Yeah, I got huge Buffy vibes from Pink Opaque too, yeah, so.
Speaker 2:And, going back, the two main characters in the pink opaque they had pink glowing ghost tattoos on their neck and they met once at summer camp and they never meet up again and they have to go, like meet on their the, the astral plane or something. Yeah, that's how they communicate, yeah, and whenever they do, they like put their heads together and, like the glowing pink, the astral plane or something to that effect.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's how they communicate, yeah.
Speaker 2:And, whenever they do they like, put their heads together and like the glowing pink ghost lets them talk to each other. But so Owen basically bonds with Maddie over this show.
Speaker 1:Because one day they see each other at. Is it the school?
Speaker 2:It's voting day. So his momen's mom is volunteering yes, uh, and natty is in photography club, so she's there waiting for film to develop yeah, and she's reading an episode guide for the pink opaque and he's like, yeah, I wanted to watch it, but like I couldn't. And she was like how about you? Like lie to your family and like just come over and watch it. So they do, and it's the only time that he's able to do it. He asked his parents if they can, he can watch it.
Speaker 1:And the father played by Fred Durst which is wild like I didn't before you continue. You told me that it was Fred Durst playing the father afterwards. And it was funny because in the film I was like this white father looks like a racist guy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, who is kind of shitty yeah, fred Durst, fred Durst, yeah that vibe.
Speaker 1:That vibe. Literally, they did great casting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, kudos, great stuff. Yeah, that vibe, that vibe. Literally they did great casting. Yeah, kudos, great stuff. Yeah. So after they go and watch it, maddie starts giving Owen tapes over the next like three years or two years, and they are. That's how they bond. They don't really talk to each other, but like they share this love of the show. Yeah, that's how they bond. They don't really talk to each other, but like they share this love of the show.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and eventually, maddie goes missing and it just shows owen's sort of like weird liminal space where he's just sort of existing. Well, and I think right before maddie goes missing there's a scene between the two of them where I think Maddie's living in a situation at home that is not ideal. I think there is abuse that's happening. And Maddie says I'm gonna leave, you should come with me. Says.
Speaker 2:I don't know what it is, but I have this feeling that if I stay here I'm gonna die.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:So so says you should come with me. Owen says okay, but then freaks out and tells a friend's mom and says like I can't go with her. She disappears entirely for like a decade I think it was and he's just like, all right, cool, I guess I'll just watch reruns. And after she leaves the show gets canceled. Yeah, so there's only five seasons. Eventually something weird starts happening.
Speaker 2:He runs into maddie again and this is where like the trans allegory starts getting like pretty heavy-handed yeah, so not in a bad way, no no, just in a like oh, if you didn't get it, this is trans, yeah it felt like they were building up to that sort of like section.
Speaker 1:So when maddie and owen owen yes, thank you when maddie and owen first connect again, they're in a grocery store, and maddie at least to me and you can tell me what you thought, but like maddie did not. Maddie looked like they had transitioned or were going through some they cut their hair short they're not going by maddie anymore yeah, they never say what they're going by yeah, they just keep saying that's not my name yeah. So you can tell there's some type of transition that has happened, because they're not the same person.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So Maddie says like, look, we can't talk here. Let me take you to a bar. I know it's on the edge of town, it's going to be safe to talk there. We get a cameo from Phoebe Brid, phoebe bridgers singing a song. I saw the, I saw the tv glow and we get sort of the crash course where, like maddie's, like yeah, do you remember the pink opaque? And owen's like, yeah, it's my favorite show and always will be. And she's like do you ever find your memory around?
Speaker 1:that show is a little fuzzy yeah, and in in this conversation maddie also says like I don't, I'm trying to go slow so that you don't freak out, because and what I kind of took from that as well was this sort of like acknowledgement of the trauma of what's happened. But also you know that maddie has had time to process and kind of live through everything that they have gone through, but Owen's not in the same space.
Speaker 2:Oh, ironically, owen is in exactly the same space that Maddie left them in, and so basically, we get cuts back and forth between like 10 years prior and like now, and it's like we see one of the characters, tara, walking down the football field, and then it cuts and it's Owen walking down the football field, and so, yeah, she's just like hey.
Speaker 1:And sorry. Tara is one of the pink opaques.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sorry, it's Tara and Isabella.
Speaker 1:Isabel, tara and Isabella. They were the two individuals who were connected on the astral plane in the pink opaque and I seem to remember Maddie always said that they felt more connected to. Was it Isabella Tara, tara, okay, so, yeah.
Speaker 2:So basically, maddie's like yeah, so things are a little weird, I will tell you everything, but you have to meet me at the high school and then things get fucking emotional.
Speaker 1:So they meet in this like inflatable planetarium in the gym, but I think, aren't you, aren't you missing?
Speaker 2:Oh, fuck, yeah, yeah, sorry.
Speaker 1:There's a whole section here that you're missing that, like feel, is pretty pivotal.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So before they meet up, maddie's like do you remember what happened in the finale? Yeah. And Owen's like yeah, of course. And she's like but do you? And he's like I think so. So he goes home and he starts watching it. And he starts realizing like something weird is happening with this show and I don't remember how things are connected. Realizes that like oh, my god, I think I might be in the show, and then starts getting sucked into his tv yeah, and his father comes running into the room.
Speaker 2:Fred Durst runs down and is like Was that your Fred Durst? That was my Fred Durst. Yeah, very good, thank you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, ran down sort of like grabbed him out of the TV. I gotta admit, when that scene first happened I thought that Owen like shoved his head into the TV, like tried to commit suicide.
Speaker 2:Uh-huh.
Speaker 1:And I was like oh, my God.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we see Owen having, like this huge panic attack Fred Durst in the shower, like trying to wake him up out of it, and him being like you're not my dad, this isn't real, I shouldn't be here. And then we go to the gymnasium.
Speaker 1:Doesn't he start barfing out stuff too?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, he does, yeah, yeah yeah, but you know the barf is unfortunately a large part of the second half of this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, alright.
Speaker 2:So we get to the gymnasium in this inflatable planetarium and we get Maddie's entire like hey, this is what's happened to me over the past decade. She's like, okay, cool, so I left. I got as far as was it Pennsylvania, she left and she worked at Build-A-Bear.
Speaker 1:Is Maddie still going?
Speaker 2:We don't know if Maddie we don't have pronouns, we don't have names, yeah, so if we're misgendering Maddie in any way, we don't know we don't know.
Speaker 2:I just wanted to call her out yeah, yeah, yeah. So Maddie's like yeah, and I did it all again. I left the town and I just was like, okay, cool, I went by another name. Then I paid this burnout kid that used to flirt with me at the food court to bury me alive and then when I woke up after dying, I was in the pinka pig again. And it goes into this whole thing like she had her heart removed by mr melancholy and she was.
Speaker 2:Who was the villain in the pink and she was forced to drink the Luna juice and she didn't take her heart back because she wanted to go get Owen and was like, okay, cool, we're going to do this. So she goes back under and she's like, in order for us to do this, we need to bury you alive.
Speaker 1:Yes, and I remember I said to you I was like so imagine you're Owen, imagine like whatever. Imagine a friend has you haven't seen them in like 10 years, and they've come to you and they're like hey, all of these things Also, I need to bury you alive now. I need to bury you alive now and like I know that this is obviously like a metaphor, for you know, you have to bury your old self in order to come through as your new self like I get it.
Speaker 2:It's also, you know, having to bury who you really are.
Speaker 1:There's a lot going on there's so many different things like lots of layers but I was like, imagine that you were this person and you're like, wow, I think my friend is like having a mental breakdown right now. What do I do like imagine if you were not in that place to receive that information okay, here.
Speaker 2:Here's so like we'll get into this more but here's the thing, yeah when I was in that position, in that headspace myself, when I was like half in that knowledge of being like, oh shit, I'm trans and had somebody come to me and told me like hey, we gotta do this and we'll make you yourself, I probably would have gone along with it, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, dude, you would have, just like it was that bad Life, was that bad? So you would have been like I choose bearing, burying myself alive?
Speaker 2:Yes, because it would at least be better than this. Fair enough, so.
Speaker 1:I don't again like I don't. I don't have that same life experience, so I can't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so Owen does not receive this well. Tackles maddie runs away never, sees maddie again. Yeah, we go. We get a jump forward of 20 years. We find out that owen is has a family. His dad died. He inherited the house. He's still working at the same place, which is the fun arcade. After the theater closed, his manager brought him along with him and we see owen in like the same age, super unwell and we know, and I don't think we mentioned this, but Owen's mom died of cancer. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so there was a period of time where I think it was not long after Maddie had gone missing, ran away where I think it was. They said a year or two after that their mom passed away from cancer. Yeah, so they've been living with their dad for all of this time until they passed away. So it was almost like are we not like again going back to? I know the metaphor here is that you're not living your truth and therefore you're like killing yourself from the outside and got it.
Speaker 1:But I was like also, their mom had cancer, maybe, maybe he needs to go find out if he has the cancer I mean that too, so see how my brain I'm like oh my god, oh it's not transness, it's cancer I didn't say it wasn't transness, I I just was like shit, someone needs to get him to the hospital.
Speaker 2:So he's working at this like fun zone, wally B world, chuck E Cheese kind of thing, and he's having a rough time. He's having a rough time, can't breathe. We get glimpses of things that aren't probably aren't real. Get glimpses of things that aren't probably aren't real, like this kid in this. Like money blower at the top of an lcd it says you are dying I think it said I am dying it might be yeah something somebody's dying.
Speaker 2:Somebody's dying owen is dying yeah, owen is dying um so this entire time he's got asthma and apparently it's got worse. He he's got super chapped lips and he is has to go into this like fun room where they're singing happy birthday and he starts screaming and said and this is where I was like.
Speaker 1:I was like did that actually happen or did he just like because everyone else in the room is just sort of like frozen it's?
Speaker 2:not and like if you read the Wikipedia, it says people are frozen and you think like people are frozen in like embarrassment or shock. They are literally just not moving and he's screaming, collapsing. He locks himself in the bathroom. His manager is like hey, you okay, buddy, we were a little worried about you. He's like yeah, I'll be out in a second, takes a box cutter, cuts his chest open and sees that there is like a tv glowing inside of him and then leaves the bathroom and just is like walking away and just starts apologizing to people like hey, sorry about earlier, and then it ends and like yeah, okay, so yeah, so like I mean, I wasn't trying to be like oh yeah, he just said sorry and then he left.
Speaker 2:It's like no dude, that's.
Speaker 1:That's the sad part well, yes, I get that. The entire thing is sad yeah like again. Once again, the metaphor is if you don't do this and you don't actually like live in your, your truth, or you don't like become the person that you're supposed to be, you'll never actually like it's not the person you're supposed to be either.
Speaker 2:It's the person that you are. Well, yeah sorry.
Speaker 2:Sorry for not using the right language, but like yes okay, so we got to talk about why it affected me like it did go for it so I can't speak, I know, yeah, yeah so you know I don't think presumably most listeners don't I've got this thing called depersonalization where, like the best way to describe it is, I'm spectating my own life of the movie, where it's like, hey, this it's so liminal, there's very few named characters, there's very few extras, everything is empty, everything is dark. It's got this overlay of like pink, blue and white for you know obvious reasons.
Speaker 2:So there was that. There's also. I can't remember most of my childhood, so it's one of those things where I'm like, oh my God, that's how I remember things Trauma, trauma, Oops, oops, trauma, oops, all trauma. Yeah, so, yeah, that that was already going into it. I was like, oh, uh, oh uh. Oh, this might be a little too relatable. Yeah, so there was that. But yeah, as I mentioned earlier, I was like there was a period of time where I was like I'm trans, but I'm not going to transition.
Speaker 1:Yes, I remember when we first started dating. This is a lovely little antidote to share, yeah but when we first started dating, I remember it was a few years into our relationship it was like three or four yeah, it was a bit.
Speaker 1:We've been together what for 11, 13 years oh, okay, it's been a minute, it's been a while yeah, but you, we were on the couch together and we were just hanging out and you said to me I thought about transitioning before, yeah. And I think I said to you oh well, those feelings don't really go away. So, yeah, what do you mean? And you're like yeah, I, just I, I, I'm not, it's a thing.
Speaker 2:I've accepted it about myself. Yeah. I'm just not going to do anything about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I was like Well, I think I said to you, like you know, if you want to talk about that, ever we can. I think I said something to that.
Speaker 2:Your exact words were I don't think that's how it works.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that also sounds like. Yeah, it's more on brand for me.
Speaker 2:Additional insight was I realized from a very young age that I was trans. I just didn't have language because it was the 90s, back in the 90s, yeah and yeah. So I think I my first realization was like I was like two or three. I had the words to like realize it when I was like 16, 17. I remember distinctly I was like, oh shit, this is a thing. Cool, I guess that's what I am. And then the terrible relationship that I was in. I was like, hey, this is a thing.
Speaker 2:And it's just a thing, so I think I'm gonna transition yes, your relationship that you were in prior to me yeah. I did not have the same reaction no, we won't get into details, but suffice to say it was the reason that I was like, oh okay, well, I guess I I'm not trans and don't worry about it and I'll just forget about this for the next 13 years, whereas with me I'm not trans and don't worry about it and I'll just forget about this for the next 13 years.
Speaker 1:Whereas with me I'm like you, sure about that, you sure about that, I mean it's cool, bud, it's cool.
Speaker 2:So all this is to say, my relation to the character of Owen was like I don't want to be like it's one-to-one it's not quite one-to-one, but like it's very very close yeah, so yeah, when going into things, hearing like maddie being like, hey, we, this is how you get through, it was like, I guess, kind of the rational slash, irrational part of myself being like, no, that's that, that's death. If you transition, that's death, and then like the gut punch of like not only realizing, oh shit, it's true, and then rejecting it further.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, well, saying oh shit, it's true, and then rejecting it further. Yeah, yeah, well, and I think too, now that we have this, language now that people are sort of having a better understanding of you know things in general. Think about all the folks like elders who are queer in some way but never really were able, like kind of had that inkling of who they were but never got to be exactly who they wanted to be.
Speaker 2:It's yeah, it is definitely one of those, like the things that we don't know about ourselves that slash aren't quote unquote normal Like hey, did you know the normal amount to think about being the opposite gender on a daily basis is zero times Cause I didn't. I was like, yeah, it's just the thing that's always playing in your mind right that's just like.
Speaker 1:That's just what you think about yeah, and I think you know, I think we have also talked about this- before yeah I don't. I. I am not trans, I don't have never felt like anything, but I've always grown up being like tomboy adjacent. Yeah, and you have met my aunt on my dad's side.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then afterwards you're like I get it, I get it now and I think that's always just sort of been who I am. Yeah, I think as I get older I identify more like with a non-binary spectrum. Yeah genderqueer, yeah, whatever.
Speaker 2:Not trans, not cis.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and for me that feels a lot more comfortable.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, that is like literally non-binary.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I know. I know, but I think, like for me, kind of you were saying about did you know how normal, like with the normal man, like I've never felt those things? Yeah, and I think that's why, watching the film, it's like I understand it and I know, it, but I don't like.
Speaker 2:It doesn't necessarily resonate.
Speaker 1:Right yeah, and not because I can't like appreciate.
Speaker 2:You can empathize. You have seen it firsthand, yeah, and I understand.
Speaker 1:But I think it's different.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like my lived experience is not a one-to-one to your lived experience or any other trans folks out there, and I would never try to compare.
Speaker 2:I mean no trans folks' experience is identical, but we've got a lot of shared things in common, which I think is why there's so much such a visceral reaction to this film.
Speaker 1:I also, the entire time time, was thinking about the matrix yeah, and, and they're replaying it at one of the theaters near our house. Actually where we went and saw this film and you were like we should go and see it on the big screen and then we were gonna watch a lot and you're like, no, we're watching it on the big screen well, I mean, I'm like emma, I'm trans. I've seen this so many times I mean I've watched it, I mean I'm sure now knowing that it's a trans allegory because, it was never really confirmed, but now it's confirmed, I'm sure, re-watching it it will.
Speaker 2:I will be like ah, well, it's so funny because, like in high school, we watched the matrix and there we had to write a paper about whether it was because the Wachowskis were on record saying that people like it's allegory of the cave, right, and they're like kind of, but not really, and up until that point everybody's just like they're lying. That's what it is. They just want to seem hashtag deep and it's like nope, trans allegory, but I think the didn't. They just want to seem hashtag deep and it's like nope, trans allegory, but I think the.
Speaker 1:Didn't it get Sorry to cut you off? Didn't it also get sort of picked up or the language of the film, like take the red pill or the blue pill, like MRA incel yeah, yes, it sure did.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which is Hilarious. I, yeah, yes, it sure did. Yeah, which is hilarious. I was going to say unfortunate. I mean there's a cosmic irony about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but the way that I kept thinking it, it's almost a exact divergent path of like okay, so red pill is the one you take if you want to wake up and go into the matrix. The blue pill is the one if you want to just stay asleep which is pretty funny because estradiol in like the two milligram form is a blue pill, but it's basically it feels like a divergent path. It's like Owen took the blue pill and. Neo took the red pill.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, maddie took the red pill.
Speaker 2:I meandie took the red pill. I mean neo did too, yeah but if we're yeah, yeah comparing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I mean red pill so red pilled yeah, so red pill. Oh, I guess that's why all those q, anon and pizzagate and like conspiracy theories, they're all like.
Speaker 2:We're red pilled.
Speaker 1:We're red pilled.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know, yeah, I can't. I know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean again, as you can tell just from us talking, like our experiences of the film are quite different, but also we both thought it was good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, it was one of those things where I met, when I was texting my brother, I was like, hey, this film was like. It felt like it was written specifically for me. So like I can't fairly judge this or say you have to see it because everyone's going to respond to it differently it was very cute.
Speaker 1:I noticed when we were at the theater and I don't know if you noticed too, but it felt like most of the people in the came to see the film were queer.
Speaker 2:Yes, oh, big time. It was very funny where you could pick out who was and who was not genderqueer questioning or trans, because there was a very clear number of people who were just sobbing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that was kind of nice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's a tentative recommend. It is a.
Speaker 1:I mean you should watch it. I think you just. We just spoiled the entire film for you yeah, but I think.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Which we warned you about. Yeah, you should film for you. Yeah, but I think yeah, which we warned you about yeah.
Speaker 2:So if you kept listening, you should have seen this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I think from my point of view it's a film that you should go and see and just being aware of. Like, even if you don't have that experience, I don't feel worse off that. I saw the film, I feel better for it and I think for you worse off that.
Speaker 2:I saw the film, I feel better for it and I think for you. Well, the only caveat that I have is, like, if you are questioning, if you think you're trans, this is probably a good film to watch because it will like be like oh hey, this is like the bad ending. But if you're, you were, were in that like repression stage of transitioning where you're like, no, no, no boy boy though it may not be a good film for you to watch until you sort through some of those feelings.
Speaker 1:Well, and one of the things that I kind of thought about as well is Is this sort of a critique or a statement or what have you on what will happen to trans kids or folks who are questioning, who are and live in these states where they will no longer have access to trans-affirming?
Speaker 2:health care. It very well could be interpreted as that, where it is like this is a worst case scenario for these folks Like that is like again. Like we said, the writer, director is trans and had a similar experience to me, like she was apparently married for like a decade before realizing oops, all trans, yeah.
Speaker 1:Sometimes it'd be like that it do be like that.
Speaker 2:Transitioning is scary, but it is. If you are trans, it's the best thing you'll ever do. Be safe when you do it if you do it. Yeah, this is.
Speaker 1:This is me pushing the trans agenda fuck, can't wait until some right wing nutters find this and then please no, don Don't put that in with the universe. No, I will not, oh shit.
Speaker 2:Do you know what we forgot to do this week? But we should do now Because, like we need to end on a high note. Oh yeah, what's making your brain go, brr.
Speaker 1:What's making my brain go brr.
Speaker 1:Honestly, I feel like I've been talking about this in the last few episodes, but the first reunion episode for Summer House just went live and West, who was a fan favorite for this entire season, the the villain to or sorry, the favorite to villain pipeline is so real because literally the entire bravo verse has just turned on this man because he fumbled the bag so hard with one of the other women in the house named ciara, who is a literal victoria's secret model, and he just like the way he was explaining things was just like, well, there's a lot of women in the bravo fan fandom and like I was concerned that if we actually had a relationship that I would just be known as like her guy and everybody's like what are you talking?
Speaker 2:about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like if you want to see a fuckboy in action, if you want to see like men fail, like the reunion for Summer House is spectacular.
Speaker 2:Love it.
Speaker 1:Period, the end. So that is I just like. Wow, we all were like. I think I've even shown you some of wes's tiktoks yeah, yeah I love this guy. Now I'm like I love this guy. I don't know if we'll go that far, but like, definitely I am just like that insert. I even made a meme about this, but it's's the Tyra from America's Next Top Model. We were rooting for you we were all rooting Like sir you had. Like the bar is so low.
Speaker 1:The bar is so low you couldn't even clear that. So that's what's making my brain go, brr.
Speaker 2:For me. What's making my brain go brr is, as a burnt out former gifted kid, my interests have always been like you have to be immediately good at this or you're going to drop it forever. Yeah, I you know, but I started skateboarding yes. Uh, I'm 35. Yeah, I eat shit so often.
Speaker 2:Yeah, shit so often, but it's like it's a really nice feeling to be bad at something and to like continue, want to continue to do it. It's, it's wild. I'm like. Usually when I'm bad at something, I'm like oh well, this just isn't for me oh, yeah, that's, that's a big me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, I can't do this bye yeah, so yeah, hey, welcome to the burnt out former gifted kid pipeline. Yeah, so yeah. That's been being sucking at something is the first step at being sort of okay at something. That's what's been making my brain go burr. Way to suck, suck, sucks, to suck. No, it's great to suck.
Speaker 1:Where can people find us? They can find us all over the internet. We are on Instagram Threads and TikTok at highlowbrowpod. That's highlowbrowpod. And then also you can go onto our website. It's the same it's highlowbrowpodcom. That's highlowbrowpodcom.
Speaker 2:We shot our load all over the internet.
Speaker 1:Woo, just like that. It's everywhere, it's everywhere. I think that's it. Thanks for sticking with us. Yeah, thanks for sticking with us, and we know we're late, but, like you know, better late than never.
Speaker 2:Sorry, we were digging feels yeah, Sorry you.