Emotion Ocean - Whats the big deal about EQ?

In today’s episode I spoke with Naomi Holdt, who is an educational psychologist, speaker, author and a mom. We spoke about many different things regarding EQ, including what it really means to develop emotional intelligence in our kids, the importance of EQ over IQ and how to truly value our children’s emotions.

Emotions are so important in our lives! They inform so much about who we are and how we interact with others. And so it’s vitally important that we, as parents, are actively engaging with our children with care and empathy, teaching them how to process their emotions, allowing them to really feel their emotions and equipping them with the tools to handle them.

If we teach our children to identify and understand their big feelings, especially while they are young, we are undoubtedly equipping them to be intelligent, thoughtful and empathetic adults. And the world needs more adults like that!

Naomi and I chat through all things EQ, big feelings and how to help our kids through it all.

Connect with Naomi:
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/naomiholdtspeaker
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/naomiholdtspeaker/
Website: https://www.naomiholdt.com/

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Transcript

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Welcome to the future smart parent podcast. A place where my mom explores how to help us kids develop a new set of skills we need to face the future with confidence. And I'm Jude Foulston, an introverted mom trying my best to raise kids who are happy and confident kids who embrace all that makes them unique, while preparing them for an exciting future that really looks nothing like the world we grew up in. I believe there's a whole set of skills that our kids aren't being taught, these skills will be critical for them to develop in order to thrive in the future. It's up to us as parents to help them develop these skills. The future smart parent podcast provides resources for parents and kids who want to be ready for all the ways in which the future is going to be different from today, we will explore this future together bringing insights from top futurists resources from smart people working on making our lives better, and most importantly, stories of parents who are parenting a little differently, yet very much intentionally for a changing world. So join me as we explore how we can be future smart parents raising future smart kids. Welcome to this episode of the future smart parents podcast where we are privileged to chat with Naomi Holt, a psychologist, author and speaker and most importantly, a mom to two kids. Not only he has a special interest in the emotional well being of children and young adults, and if you've been following her on social media, which I highly recommend, you'll be aware of the massive amounts of insightful knowledge she provides with both parents and teachers in supporting, nurturing and helping young people reach their potential. Welcome, Ernie. It's awesome to have you back on the podcast. It is so so glad to be here. And I'm super excited to be here today. So thank you for having me. Yeah. It's such a important topic that we're going to cover today. And that is EQ or emotional intelligence. Just the other day someone was asking my nine year old, like what he was worried about. And if I think back to what I was worried about at night, it was kind of the color of, I don't know, my bicycle, whether it was red or blue. And his response to the question was, he was worried about the war that was breaking out that any family members were gonna die from COVID. And I just thought, wow, these kids are like, they just got so much that they're facing at the moment. So we know EQ is important. We've been told it is, but maybe you can just remind us kind of what exactly EQ is, and why we need to help our kids develop the EQ skills. Absolutely. And I think just in terms of your son, yes, kids nowadays are facing so much more than we did as as kids. But the fact that your nine year old was able to speak about it as we're going to like chat about today. I mean, that is just awesome in itself. That's what we want our kids to be able to do. So like if we I mean, we can, let's just get the textbook stuff out the way what is EQ. I mean, we know that there's a strong link between EQ and resilience, which is why it's something I believe is so important to be promoting, especially in our world, as we know it today. But these are skills that are really part of the off brain development. And there are skills that are nurtured, and from the youngest age, and that's the exciting part of EQ is that actually we can nurture these through role modeling through teaching. But in our ever changing world of chaos and uncertainty, well, we need these skills that no, there's so much about them. It's just that kindness, compassion, empathy, integrity, is such a big one. But at a very simple level. I mean, EQ is the ability to understand our own emotional space, and understand the emotional space of those around us, but also how our emotional space impacts on those around us. I mean, we can look at and literally, if you Google, emotional intelligence or EQ, there's that you probably come. I don't even know how many read it would be a phenomenal amount of articles of documents and books on EQ. So and I didn't want to I want us really, I thought, Well, today, let's get to the practical nitty gritties of EQ in the home what it looks like what we can do in the home in classrooms. I mean, we know Daniel Goleman is an expert, and he kind of highlights a number of areas of EQ, some of them being self awareness, self regulation, that internal motivation, empathy, social skills, we know all these are really, really important. And the other thing I think that we often forget is that in our world today, we still do we know this despite neurological advancements, but we know that we place so much emphasis on IQ, and so much less on EQ but EQ is a greater predictor of success than IQ. It's what takes it further I can get you sorted, then it stops. And what we actually need is EQ I will desperately need EQ, but I think so if I if I think about our family For example, it's almost easier to focus on IQ because I will sit down at your desk and do this worksheet, and you either get 80% or 60% or 40%. At the end of the day when we test you, and, you know, there we go, we can help you make progress, we can send you to extra lessons for your IQ. But as a parent, I kind of feel stuck with how we can help our kids develop the EQ. A, because I sometimes think like, you know, if if one of my kids is having a meltdown, I can often be having a meltdown at the same time, because it's just also overwhelming. And yeah, like it's difficult, I find it difficult to know how to develop a EQ, it feels daunting to me that we haven't almost been given the steps I don't think so the it's easier to focus on the IQ, am I right? Absolutely. And I think especially for many of us growing up in the generation that we did, EQ was not even a word. It was not a focus, emotions, were not a focus. And it is very daunting and overwhelming. But I think for me, what's so awesome, is that we can see is that we develop EQ not through amyloid, what tasks can I do, and as you will know, you know, I've got a whole toolkit available with cards, a whole toolkit of games and stuff. But it's more that those kinds of things, in my mind, give her a foundation for us to enable, what we need to be doing is kind of weeding the threads of emotional intelligence in our everyday conversations. And it's not so much the things that we do, or even the things that we say, as parents, it's our way of being, like just our way of being who we are what we do in conversations. And we know you know, when this really hit me that the need for the importance of it. Yes, we know, as I said, we know all this research stuff, but sure, as we know, wow, I will this just broken, and it's been one breakage after another. And last year after after unrest added so much reflection and thinking on the world and our country on what we were doing wrong, how can we what can we do and it was such a disempowering place to be in for many reasons, you know, the pandemic, then unrest, and now we are dealing with with the war, but I thought it was all after the unrest, you know, there's two things that I think we actually need. And we need to be looking at as parents as educators, and the one is gentle parenting, and the whole gentle parenting approach, if we actually look at it, it's it's the way that that's the style that best suits the development of EQ. And then, of course, number two is emotional intelligence. And with that, the development of integrity, because if we're looking at something like integrity, that ability to make that decision of what's right and wrong within ourselves, that comes from the top down, it's from the leaders of countries right down to the citizens, it's from the leaders of schools, right down to the pupils, it's from us as parents as home week, otherwise, we are not going to get it right. And we're not going to be able to kind of really make progress in a broken world. So how do we look at how do we look at fixing this, this world? That seems to be sometimes an absolute mess. But I think our best chance is actually through role modeling the skills of emotional intelligence. So we know that, you know, children's brains are developing throughout that, in fact, the brains developing until until mid mid 20s, there's so much that we can do. And that, for me is really exciting the amount that we can do for our children. Because it can it can be very overwhelming as a parent, but as I said, I think it's the way of how we weaving through role modeling. And what kind of conversations are we opening up in our homes and allowing and what emotions and emotions room for emotional expression? Are we allowing every single day that for me is the biggie the big stuff that lays the foundation for emotional intelligence? So you mentioned gentle parenting. Can you can you explain a little bit? I mean, I know that's a massive topic in itself. But can you just help us understand gentle parenting? I know. And I think it's come from the generation that we were brought up from gentle parenting can almost be seen as oh my goodness, you kind of let these kids get away with everything. And the kids rule roost and there's no discipline or whatever, which my understanding is it's the complete opposite. You still giving the kids boundaries, but it's it's just a different approach. Can you maybe just help me understand a little bit more about gentle parenting? So I think yes, so it is a huge topic. I mean, we could do like a whole day workshop on it. But very, very basically, I think that we got to look at the generation of parenting that many of us were raised in which was that harsh disciplinarian he has a rule. And if you look at the part of the brain that is actually activated in children when we come down with punitive, harsh, even there corporal punishment, it's the limbic system. Now Our biggest aim is parenting. What is it? It's actually to grow up children's brains, which as I said, are developing to that till the mid 20s. That kind of punitive parenting approach that fear based parenting does not grow brains, it doesn't grow any of the skills that we have been talking with about which our prefrontal cortex skills we as gentle parenting really, yes, absolutely, there are boundaries, but it's how you put them into place. It is through building a relationship, we know that any of us are more likely to be cooperative, when we're in a relationship with someone. So it's about making relationship and the building of a relationship, the priority in the parent child connection, through a strong attachment relationship, that's where the mutual respect develops, that is where that so it's in relationship, that actually we can put the boundaries in place that there's love that there is nurture that children feel safe. That is another big one, this feeling of safety and within, you know, what I love about gentle parenting is it takes away the need for us as parents to be perfect. It's a space where we all stuff up, we all make mistakes. And because of that, and because of our approaches, parents of asking for forgiveness, when we step up, not getting it right in return, but recognize that this parenting journey is a relationship and relationships have ups and downs, that we make mistakes in relationships, we miss ups, but then there's the awesomeness of the apology, the power of apology, and the forgiveness that comes and the healing in that. And you know, for me, one of the most awesome things is, if I think about growing up, I would never have gone to my parents when I made a mistake. Why because of that fear of judgment of whatever the consequence was going to be, where's this, we know our kids are going to step up? Don't we want to be parents that our children know, no matter how much I've stuffed up, or what age I've started, I can come to my parent, that is what I want, I want to always be that safe place for them to know. With me, it's unconditional love, not conditional, nothing that authoritive kind of that harsh punitive kinds of parenting also tends to be very conditional. Unless you do X, Y, and Zed, then you will not receive a, b and c. And again, going back to emotional intelligence, it's the complete opposite of in terms of what are we wanting to promote in our children neurologically, emotionally, and how they all fit hand in hand, versus actually what does that style of parenting, promote, it really keeps us back. And it provides the perfect breeding ground for anxiety and depression, which we all know too well, that there's far too much of in in the world. So the biggest thing that I take from that is, is just to remind myself daily, if not hourly, that it comes back to the relationship with our kids. Without that we can throw as many extra murals as many whatever vitamins, what, we can throw anything towards them, but without relationship. We're finding a losing battle, I suppose. And yeah, and it's tough, because we can also get overwhelmed as parents, like, parenting is exhausting. And then you're like, Okay, so now, you know, we've done everything that the that the book says, And now gosh, no need to have a relationship with you as well. You know, it's but I think that's where we actually need to check that book, to us that book and deal with what is Who is the child I have in front of me? What are the needs of the child I have in front of me, not what is the book telling me I should be doing. But if we are actually really present, parents will have the answer to that if we are present and connected. And if our main priority is relationship is what I'm going to do or what I'm going to say I'm going to create connection in the relationship or disconnection. Because also remember that disconnection even impacts on the parts of the brain that are being used from both sides of us. Again, going back to just what we are trying to do, we're trying to build our children's brains. So it's all about there's a relationship is that being just being with our children on here's that other keyword with no expectations, if you enter any interaction with your child and take out all expectations, it's beautiful. It's expectations in the parenting child relationship that stuffs everything up. And that damages relationships. We miss out on the beauty of so much of the people that are told that our children are the human beings that are and what they have to offer the world as soon as we throw our expectations into the mix. And I think also is that by saying we need to have relationship with our children. We're not saying we have to be their best friend, which I think some parents can get almost confused by it's not saying you're not building a friendship here you building a mother son, mother, daughter, son fight other relationship, it's a parent child relationship. Right? And that doesn't mean that you work your child 24/7. And that, you know, like, You're everything to your child, like, am I right? No, absolutely. And that is so important. And it's so important that they are able to develop into their own. You know, that's how they becoming adulthood is not as being side by side, they're BFFs that actually does the more emotional damage, it is about, I think the key in the relationship is being the safe place there. For me, it always goes back to that attachment relationship is as as adults being the safe space for them in which they can develop goes through the different healthy and appropriate developmental stages in life. And a part of that is, of course, raising them to leave you and watching them become their own unique individual people. Yeah, so it is an it doesn't mean BFFs, where we take away all the boundaries that children don't need, that our children feel insecure and unsafe without boundaries. But it's, as I said earlier about how we put those boundaries into place. That is the most important. So yes, and that relationship is all about holding emotions. And again, that's what that's where we get back to the CQ stuff. And I suppose as with everything parenting, we say, how do we teach our children to have EQ, and when we don't teach them, we also, as you said, we model it ourselves. And I think sometimes that's the hard part for us. Because sometimes we can automatically go to just being I suppose hard, and if the kid is, if your child is crying about something, you know, sometimes my default is, oh, just stop crying. You're okay. And so it's, it's also about myself, growing my EQ skills, and just acknowledging that it's okay for your baby to cry if if he's upset, or if he's been hurt, or if he's grumpy. Which actually brings me on to another question. When my kids were little, I remember reading an article or something about how you need to help them, learn the different emotions, and being able to name them. And to be honest, I was like, what, like, why I mean, surely angry is angry, sad is sad, like, why must be now like, spit it out for them. And then the other day, I was listening to a podcast, and the person said, on average, your average person can can name three emotions of cloud, they really have to think about more than three. And I was like, No, that's crazy. And the first three that came to my mind, I think it was angry, sad and happy with the first three that everyone else named, which just blows your mind, because clearly, it doesn't come naturally to go, Okay, I'm feeling guilty, or I'm feeling sad or anxious. So two questions, I suppose. Why do why is it so important to help our kids and ourselves being able to identify their emotions? And then I know you've got a tool to help us. So when you also just touch on that, because I think that kind of gives us a practical sort of how to as well, I think this question is so important. And you're asked, I think many parents and I've heard parents say to in my consulting room, you know, the silly thing the schools doing about naming emotions, blah, blah. But I even remember doing a talk a couple of years ago on EQ, for a very intelligent bunch of adults that were working with children. And I remember I gave them one of the activities was that they had two minutes to come up with as many emotions as possible. And they were working in groups. And the one group of two minutes had only seven emotions, like that is frightening. That is frightening. How on earth, there are so many emotions, and how can we teach our children that it's normal to feel every kind of emotion, live in a world we daily, they are feeling lots of emotions, sometimes all at once, and we don't even have a word for them. Like that is just not okay. But this is where the skill of self awareness comes in. And of course, it's got a knock on impact on so many other aspects of development. And I think we underestimate completely. This would be talking about this chatting and naming about emotions and because of course, when we chat about them, we actually normalizing them. And we need to be making them as emotions as common a thing as talking about brushing our teeth, what we're having for dinner, because, you know, when I work with children and teens, and even adults that haven't been raised, being able to be raised in homes where they've been free to express their emotions, you know what, that we're looking at depression. Anxiety, eating disorders, self harm, guilt, a range of things that they're feeling, because they've grown up in homes where they have believed that emotions are not acceptable when we don't talk about them. I mean, I think perhaps many of us from the previous generation, as we kind of said, that is kind of what was was so often the way that we will also raise that. You just want emotions. No, there's no room for them. There's no case for that. And they're super uncomfortable. In fact, often in homes, emotions, were either you felt so guilty about that, or you were punished for feeling them, especially something like anger. So like I see in my playroom, I'll often ask kids exactly that when they first come in as a show, you know, What emotions do you feel? And they will, they'll come up with those basic three that we have. But a lot of them will even say, no, no, no, no, no, no, we never feel angry. No, no. And why that is because so often in homes, we punish our children, when they display signs of anger. Now, children need to know that anger, like every other is as normal as every single other emotion. And I am so passionate about normalizing and speaking, I think that's because of the children and the teams I work with, because I see the impact on the adults, the parents, because I know what it was like growing up in my home, just embracing these emotions, bring it my mantra in my house, you know, there's lots I even said to my hubby the other day, like there's lots of things. I mean, I openly admit, there's lots of stuff up with in parenting, but my for me, this one, I've like, I've always been this parent, my mantra is bring it on, in this home, whatever you feel, is is okay. Just this is a home where we embrace it, just creating that space we big emotions are normalized can be spoken about can be expressed, and that home becomes a safe place to actually express this. And you know, we need to understand what applies for our kids applies to us as adults too. And this is a thing, often the problem is that we need to remember, no one else's emotional space is personal. If someone is angry with you, it's actually not personal, it's their emotional space. When our children, no matter what they throw at us, it's their emotional space, the difference comes in is all the issue comes in is when a triggers something within us as parents, that's the thing, then we react, we just regulate, and of course, that causes a dysregulation all around. So and one of the characteristics of EQ is the ability to self regulate, but we can't self regulate by or expect our children to learn to self regulate by sending them to the rooms by punishing them by shouting at them by telling them to get over it, to stop losing them. That is not how the brain learns to self regulate, we know from research as well and just from from parenting is that the brain learns to self regulate, by CO regulation, that means as parents been able to regulate ourselves in the space of our child who is dysregulated, it's within that, that a child actually learns to self regulate not what is our natural tendency, when our child is losing it, we're triggered, we push them out, we don't pull them in, and we don't stay in their space. But if we're looking at we're not helping them on an achy level, we're not helping them neurologically, we're not helping them to develop the skills that they need at all. And we're not role modeling it either. So we need to be embracing big emotions. But that means as adults, we need to be okay with him. Because you know what emotions are normal, somewhere along the line, so many of our kids pick up, they're not normal. And even though they're so normal, we still are in homes where we disregard them, we ignore them, we try and sweep them away. But if we don't normalize them, our kids are going to end up being anxious and depressed. And believe here's the thing, not believed, at the end of the day that I grew up in a home where they weren't normal, as they'll believe that there's something wrong with them, because they had all these big emotions, but they weren't allowed to express them. And just as a sideline, that's often where we see bigger meltdowns take place. Because then, and one of the activities in, in, in the EQ toolbox that I described, is literally if I am feeling something huge, and I don't have a word for it, I'm going to be a volcano. Eventually, I'm going to explode. But as soon as there's a word for it, I know oh my goodness me there's actually wait between other people feel it too, which means I can normalize it when I can get the word out there, I can process it. So it's powerful enough, and then home can be that safe space, we can talk about it. And you know something else? I think it's by giving children and by helping them understand their words, for the big things that I feel. They learn for the most powerful words that exist across all languages. And that is I am not alone. Because if someone else feels it, it means that I'm not alone. It means I'm not alone because my parents understand it because they'll be there for me. So for me, that is just wow, for us to know when we feeling those things. I mean, we know as adults, when we are going through something massive, but one person, we feel like one person gets it. That sense of boredom. Yeah, that's the well. And, of course, then how to use these when our kids don't know the word if they if they're, and I say I was gonna say that I know the word of the younger, but actually, there's many teens and adults who don't actually know what they're feeling. And this is also why I use the set of cards that have got so go to thing I've got a set of cards, emotions, cards that we use in always in my home, and I use in my practice, and then I've got a toolkit, which is great for educators, a lot of parents use different things in it too, and for other therapists of various sorts, but to just be able to when a child is feeling something big, and you know it to be able to use the words, not you are feeling but it seems like you might be feeling X, Y and Zed. How can I help you and believe me, they'll tell you if they're wrong. Or when mine were very little, I just put a few of these emotions up on the fridge. And then I would say, could you want to go show me how you feel. And it is just been the most powerful thing again, it goes back to our children then feeling understood. And if we look at our teens in particular, what is the biggest thing that we hear from our teens is I don't feel understood. And if I don't feel understood, I don't feel like anyone gets me like anyone connects to me, that's massive for our kids in our teens. So when we feel understood, of course, our defenses can come down. And when our defenses are down, wow, then our brains can develop. And we can shift from that defensive fight flight freeze limbic mode into our prefrontal cortex mode. And that is where the neurological wiring is occurring. So it took them powerless vocabulary that, for me, is huge. Just like a quick example, in my home, so I do that. And I mean, that happens all the time. But last week, it happened just before we were supposed to record the the first podcast and I thought, oh, you know, these things won't happen at snap, bang the right time. But it just been one of those days, you know, we just have those days where the sibling rivalry I'd be more and they were like tears from both of them on a number of occasions. And it was just before dinner, I was sitting on the carpet doing some puzzles. And my little seven year old says Mum, Christian, which is a brother, her nine year old brother teaching made me feel very sad and annoyed today. So then I said to her Oh, my God, Thanks for Thanks for telling me Do you want to get the the motion motion cards? And then we can we can we can go through that? And she was like, Oh, yes, please. And she ran and she got them. And what we do, we just put these cards all over the dining room floor. And she picked the ones that that she felt and she chose miserable, sad and worried. But what it did when she chose them is it enabled her to talk through them, and to process her frustrations, and where she was at where she felt them in her body. And of course, she's you know, all over. But I also found that that for so many adults and actually teens, that we are so overwhelmed with these massive emotions, we actually don't have the words for them to be able to sit with a pack of cards. And what I do with my teens, as I said, I can't go through them, find all the ones that you feel, put them on one side, and all the others put on the other side. And then we go through them, we talk through them. And just knowing they're normal, I can actually feel more than one thing at once. I don't have to feel guilty about these big emotions. It is honestly so so empowering. So I find it's just it's for me one of the most magical things in our home to be able to talk about big feelings and hold the space for them all the time. Because I suppose and it goes back to what you were saying earlier. It's based on relationship. And so when when you can then identify the feeling, it helps you calm down, and you can then start talking about it and then develop the relationship knowing that it's a safe space. I wanted to ask you so this morning, true story. My nine year old and his friend yesterday went to the fish shop and now they're wanting to build this fish farm. And they got three new fish and a new little tank and they set it up and very excited. And this morning he woke up and when to go check on his three fish and they were gone out of the tank gone. So he comes running through to me. He's mad, He's furious. He's like, Mom, you move my fish and I love them. I know like I haven't touched your fish. And he's getting really angry. And then I'm also now getting a guess it's triggering triggering me dramatic but I'm also getting a bit like I haven't touched them like what are you? Why are you shouting at me? Anyway, so I go through to the room with him. And they choose Bob these three fish had jumped out of the tank and relying dead flat on the floor. So then there were tears and tears and anger and all sorts and I kind of just stood there like Like, Oh, I didn't even know what to say. Help me Help me understand how I could have handled that better. I suppose it's miles. I'm sorry, I can see that you really angry. It wasn't I didn't do anything about I didn't move your fish. And I'm sorry you so angry. But let's go and see what happened. I mean, is that kind of the way to handle it? So I think firstly, true story that's actually happened to me before this Johnny fish do jump out of the room and Thomas conine, who knew I know who knew until that actually happens to you and you find these dead fish on the floor. But yeah, so this happens. And of course, these are big deals to our kids. So we might be like, Oh, my word, this is so frustrating. And they're melting down a bit. But this is we also need to think that we need to change our perspective, a lot of the times when it comes to our children's reactions, because often we get frustrated because of their huge reactions. And then as you said, you were actually triggered because that's, and that's not you. That's human nature in terms of what happened in your brain, he was freaking out. So your limbic system started freaking out, you also became dysregulated. Because it was like panic, where the heck are these fears? I'm getting accused, I didn't touch these fish. And now what are we going to do these fish more data on the floor? So there's a whole lot going through your parenting man? So yes, I mean, we can we've got to times like that. Just really, I think first focus on okay, how do I need to regulate myself right now, even if it's like the parenting poor. So one brief, so often just says parents, one breath is a power of one breath, whether it's stepping back, or just taking a deep breath in so that you can kind of collect your own thoughts before you respond, because what actually happens otherwise, we tend to react from that limbic system, instead of respond from our prefrontal prefrontal cortex. And so in that moment, our tendency our human nature is to want to fix we want to fix stop the just get move on, prevent the chaos, cotton, wool, whatever it might be, depending on the situation. And actually, we can't, it's the same as the world we sitting in right now. We can't, we have to be really a lot of the time and these big emotions are happening to hold the space, regulate ourselves and hold the space. And at the time, no amount of reflection in those big moments would have actually made any difference because remember, he was in limbic system mode, freaking, you trying to access or engage his prefrontal cortex by reflecting in that moment would not have helped, because it actually could have enraged him more. Because there's no rational thinking in that moment. So what a child needs then is literally a parent who will be in the space and let them rage, and then reflect afterwards reflect the emotions shock. This is really upsetting for you, or you're so angry, and to look also behind the anger often. Remember, anger is such a loaded emotion. It's the only human emotion that isn't what it is. Anger is never anger. Anger is the onion emotion, you got to peel back those outer layers and underneath it is usually is always disempowerment often comes along with sadness, pain, fear, whatever the other kind of added layers to our bodies, anger was probably huge disappointment, sadness, he had hopes for that fish farm thing, whatever he had in mind yesterday, he put those fish in there last night, what imagine that he would wake up this morning and having certain expectations, and he woke up this morning, his world as he had planned, it had shattered and fallen by the wayside. So this was huge. So just to be there, integrate the space that holds it, and then to reflect his devastation, and his deep sadness and disappointment of it. And only from the so when we first were in that space, we co regulate Calm down, and then we can reflect those huge emotions. And from there, we then hold and then we then comes the problem solving it, the etc. But the most important is really just to be in the space. You know what we often do? I mean, it sounds like you did exactly that you stayed in your space, what we often do is we minimize the big issues for our children. And we might think, I mean, I've had some parents say to me, yeah, but you know, if you carry on and you make a big deal about the official, the office or the whatever that the child is melting down about, then won't they just become like a, you know, this pathetic child who's just so overly emotional. And what I always say is, you know, when when my child is 16, they're not going to remember necessarily the fish that are dead on the floor, but what they will remember is they had a mom who emotionally reflected sat by them and held the space while they fell apart, or what have you, because we'll still be that bomb that will then do that for them and they will know us as the safe space. And I think that that's another important thing to talk about, just quickly, where we are in the world right now. And our role as parents to hold space for our kids. There are some terrible things going on in the world. And as much as we want to protect our kids and not let them be exposed to war and bombs and terror, I think the way that the world is obviously age dependent, but I think, and I get well, I guess my question is, do we protect our kids from everything? Or do we just help them and hold the space with them? And, you know, have the conversations, I suppose, because they do know a lot of what is going on? I know, this is an age depends on the age of the kids. But you know what I'm saying? No, absolutely. And it is really there are going to hear they are hearing from friends from all over. They're picking it up from us, from our conversations, from the news from the wedding from papers when they're seeing the pictures or reading the headlines. So it is so important that we do have the conversations age appropriately. And neutrally. That's the other thing. Remember, our children pick up on our emotional space, our emotional reactions. And so we can't cut more them and protect them. But we can hold that space, we can give them the information and be the safe space. And this going back to why relationship is so important. Relationship is the thing we all need to be investing in because it's in relationship that they safety, they sought safety in the world, there is no safety walking out the front door, literally for met for a myriad of reasons, there is safety in one place. And that is the predictability of the relationship. And that is why that needs to always be the focus. And of course, that's not to bring guilt. I mean, of course, as parents, we're going to have days where we aren't regulated where we do lose it when we but to always just to go back to that relationship that, you know, if we've stuffed up the power of apology to as a parent be able to say to our children, you know what I'm so sorry. Like, I don't know about you, but I never ever heard those two words out of my parents mouths ever. But what does that mean? That leaves a child that if I know as a child, my parents have made a mistake, but they don't own it, it leaves me feeling like the baddie. And it leaves me very confused, because they've messed up. But I took that means I take all the emotional responsibility of everything that goes wrong in this house that is loaded. And that is setting kids up for depression and anxiety. So the power of apology for many reasons is just so huge. But to create that space, that safety, that relationship with a child feels unconditionally loved, seen, understood, where we hold the space for those big, big meltdowns, those moments that we will have. For me, it's all about literally bring it on when they're happening. Just as I said, I think in those moments of overwhelmed when we're feeling overwhelmed, take that parenting, pause that one breath and remember, it's not personal in that moment your child has a need your responsibility as a parent is not to react to whatever behavior or meltdown or screaming or shouting or you killed my fish might be coming your way. But it's what is your child need right now? They need you to be there and they need you to see what the message is behind the behavior and remember that's always a need what is it meet that just meet that that's all we have to do. And make eye contact sit on the floor Ramona, I'm always I know my last a little but I'm hoping we still do this when they're much older is just to pop on the floors. I can can't bring it on. Let's just wait. Well, whatever one of you on each leg if it's everyone involved in Yeah, just to but stay, don't walk away. Because I think that that for me is we we were trained as a trained guy kind of that so often for so many of us our wiring is when we can't deal with emotions because they make us feel uncomfortable, we walk away or we send our kids away. That causes disconnection that is not helping them teach them how to regulate. It's teaching the ads actually giving them the nonverbal message your behavior is unacceptable and therefore you are in unacceptable but what we need to be communicating is my love is unconditional. No matter what comes, comes out come as you are all your emotions, bring it on. Everything is welcome here. And also to remember, I think for us we want to like sometimes Oh my word This isn't ending. Remember these big meltdowns, these big emotional states. They're like waves. We ride that storm the waves pass what's important to our children is who was standing alongside them when they got through that wave and landed on the beach and I don't know about you but I always always want my children to know that that I stood there I stayed through the storm no matter what and that they felt loved unconditionally through it. Totally and I mean your your kids seeing seeing us as being the imperfect people that we are is gifting itself it gives them the space to be imperfect themselves and you know, we must And mustn't try and hide that we do get angry and we do get sad and we, you know, some of us never saw well never saw our parents dads cry ever and that's not healthy stuff. So let your kids see you as the imperfect people that we are because it's it's important, it's critical and we all need to we all need to invest in in this way. Thank you for today I am going to put your contact details and where everyone can find you on social media in the shownotes and so so if you are listening and if you've enjoyed this conversation, please do go follow Noemi she's, she's she puts out an abundance of of beautiful content that is so helpful for as parents. I mean, if if there's one last thing that you that you want to say to parents on this topic, what would be your parting advice? I think when I saw that question, I was like, Oh my God, there is like just so so so much. But I think don't underestimate the importance of, of emotional intelligence, like you as a parent, we as parents have the power to break generate generational cycles. And that is so encouraging. But our message to our children needs to be come as you are, remember, their behavior is not personal. We need to be communicating our embrace all of exactly who you are, bring on whatever. And no matter what, at the end of it, I am still here. And then just a final thought and I thought this ties in so much with yesterday, I was looking at the at the paper and I saw a photo that's heartbreaking photo of these people in the Ukraine, obviously, trying to get the families out and crossing this massive would look like a river with just carnage all over the show. And two of them, you see the one guy in the front boy carrying the one was carrying his massive Alsatian German Shepherd and another one behind carrying a border collie. And it just it really broke my heart, just the realization, you know, it's been a pandemic, it's been the unrest, it's been this now it's just this world of ours. That's, that feels like it's an absolute tatters and we don't have the words and I don't have the answers. And as parents, we don't have them for our kids. But so we can't change this world that's in tatters for our children. But here's the empowering thing. And it gives me goosebumps thinking about it. And it's actually all we can do, we can raise children through what we teach and through what we role model who will have the emotional intelligence, who will have the integrity, and you will have the compassion, to to write the injustices to stand up to whatever, whoever needs to be stood up to and to heal the brokenness that exists in our world. So that's Yeah, I think if we all do that, how can that be the aim and parenting? Totally, totally. Gosh, yeah. Goosebumps. Thank you. Thank you. Again, I love chatting to you to privilege and thank you for what you've shared today. And for the work you're doing, and I look forward to chatting to you again soon. Awesome. It's been fabulous noises and thanks so much for helping me out flat. Sorry for having me. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, and you'd like to help support the future smart parent podcast, please share it with others post about it on social media, or leave a rating and review. To catch all the latest from me. You can follow us on Instagram at future smart parent or join our private Facebook group. Thanks again, and I'll see you next time.