Trauma Recovery with Anne Kinsey

Asher met Anne when they joined his online community The Weighting Room. They both realised that they had quite a bit in common and struck up a friendship. Anne (they/them) is a neurofeedback/biofeedback professional, an author, and a human trafficking consultant. They are the founder of non-profit aimed at providing trauma recovery for those who would otherwise struggle to gain access to services. You can find them on Instagram as @anne.kinsey.writes. 

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Transcript

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Welcome back to podcast everyone. I am super excited to be having this conversation with someone I am getting to know.

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Their name is, Kinsey. They are a member of my online community the waiting room and we kind of got to know each other through that but we have so much in common.

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And I'm really excited. About this talk because I just think we, we have a lot to talk about.

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And, and has a lot. Of lived experience and knowledge and wisdom that they are going to impart.

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Today, no pressure. So, Without further ado, I'm going to let and introduce themselves.

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Asther, thank you so much for having me here today. I'm Anne and I am a fat.

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Queer, trauma-informed, trauma recovery professional. And writer. Living in North Carolina and the United States across the pond.

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And I'm currently in the process of writing a book, running a nonprofit. Providing human trafficking consulting services amongst other things.

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I'm really excited to. Talk today and have a conversation. We do have a lot in common and also I think that the intersection between your work and what I'm doing is really fascinating.

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And so I can't wait to get into it.

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I made, wait, that's just set up the entire podcast. I'm really glad that someone's paying attention and knows what they're doing, not me.

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Tell us more about your work because it's like I'm fascinated by it. So tell us more.

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I love the way you worded it. Did you say trauma informed? Professional or something like you didn't kind of, you gave it.

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Trauma-informed trauma recovery professional. Yes.

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That's a really good way of putting it. And so can you explain kind of what that involves what your works like?

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Absolutely. So. I am. Really interested in how neuroscience can help us to address how trauma has impacted our minds and bodies without always having to.

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Relive our traumas in order to heal from them. So trauma has a really significant impact on like how our brains function, right?

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It impacts the. Hippocampus and how we process memory. It, it makes our amygdala go on hyper alert and be ready to come to our rescue at any given moment.

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Which then can make it more challenging. For the frontal areas of our brain where we have like decision-making and planning and all that good stuff going on.

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Make it harder for those areas of our brains to function well. Then if if you add onto that those of us who might be neurodiverse, on top of it.

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Trauma recovery can be challenging but what I'm fascinated by are all the modalities.

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And tools available. To help people address how trauma has impacted them without having to sit down and share all of our traumas because especially those of us who have.

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Intersectional identities and live with trauma just from making our way through the world. And those of us who may have had developmental trauma growing up or relational trauma growing up.

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Relational trauma a little bit later on. There are too many incidents of trauma to sit down.

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And talk through each one. And find resolution for each one. I could sit in trauma therapy for the next 40 years.

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And still not process every single incident. However, What I can do is go in with something like neurofeedback where we put EEG sensors like on the scalp.

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Hmm.

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And Let my computer give feedback to my brain about how it's functioning so that it can on its own learn to function more optimally.

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And resolve my trauma responses that way. So instead of of sitting and talking through things for the next 40 years, I can talk through the most significant things in therapy.

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Sure, that's helpful. But in as I'm doing that I can address the broader underlying impact of trauma so that I don't.

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Half 2 resolve every single incident. It sort of resolves or calms on its own. So neurofeedback is one of those things that we do and I kind of you know hinted we put EEG sensors on the scalp.

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The client sits. Front of like a TV screen and either watches a movie or play a video game and the screen will get bigger or smaller, lighter or darker the sound gets louder or softer depending on what the client's brain is doing and without the client sitting there trying to figure out what all that means.

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The brain sort of unconsciously, subconsciously takes that information in an automatically self-regulates itself.

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To form new baselines for functioning that don't involve so much hyper arousal so much.

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Fight flight freeze fond response like that we get from trauma so that is Nera feedback.

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Another thing that I do in my work is HRV biofeedback. So heart rate variability, a lot of people think that they want their heart rate to be like Super regular, super, you know, rigid.

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No, no, we actually want it. I mean, you would know as a physician that would be part of.

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Your work but we want variability in there. We want flexibility in there and when there is flexibility in that HRV.

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It's a sign that multiple systems in the body are working together well. So for HRV biofeedback, I use this device called, the heart map inner balance sensor and it clips to the ear lobe.

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On the client. I use it myself, by the way, all the tools that I use are things that I actually use myself.

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It eclipsed to the earlobe and then it connects via Bluetooth to a phone.

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We also have another device that we can use that doesn't require a phone, but most people. Who have a phone choose to use the inner balance.

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And the heart rhythm will show up on this screen and then it gives the client feedback via like a mandala that gets bigger and smaller.

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To help with breath pacing and then it will show ready yellow or green coherence. Coherent score is just a measure of how flexible is your heart rate, how you know, how much resilience is your body showing right now.

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Then we use a variety of breathing techniques and visualization techniques to help people. Increase their HRV and create a new more resilient and relaxed yet alert baseline.

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So unlike something like meditation, which I also love, but unlike meditation. HRV biofeedback is not getting people to be super duper relaxed all the time.

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You want to think in terms of a continuum where on you know one out of the continuum you're super relaxed like almost about to fall asleep the other end of the continuum you are really activated and you're either super excited or maybe ready to fight.

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And what we want is to meet in the middle. And that's what the HRV biofeedback does is helps people create that baseline in the middle.

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So that's another thing that I do in my work. I also use neuro modulation with clients.

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So we have neurofeedback, right? That's feedback to our brain. Our brains are learning now what to do.

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Neuro modulation says Okay, we're having trauma responses in the brain. We can use some sort of stimulation, whether that be, very gentle electrical.

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Or like a vibration stimulation in order to impact. How the brain is functioning that way. There are 2 devices that I use for that in my work.

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One is the Alpha STEM device. That uses ear clips where you put a little bit of of conductive solution on the ear clips and you stick it on your ears.

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And adjust it, adjust the settings so that the person just feels. Good? Relaxed, happy.

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And ease. And then you wear it as you go about your activities but you cannot drive with the Don though.

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Can you do anything other than drive with it on? But I have worked with it on I've done the laundry with it on I've written with it on all kinds of things.

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So you can go about your regular everyday activities. We're anywhere from. 15 min to 3 h depending on what kinds of issues the person is wanting to address.

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By using it. They have tested it with anxiety, depression, and insomnia. Also pain, chronic pain, and there are different pain.

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Pads that you can use like on your body where you're experiencing pain to help with that.

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Similar to attends but different if you ever get curious to look up on the difference of the technology.

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It's just the way that the electrical current works. It's different with alpha stem. In the states you have to have a prescription for the alpha stem I believe in other parts of the world you don't which is interesting.

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Thank you.

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Yeah, the other device we use is called the Apollo wearable and it's a wristband that you wear on on your arm.

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They also have where you can actually clip it to your clothes and use it. Near your color bone too.

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I haven't had a client do that, but I know that's possible. But most people wear it on like their wrist.

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And it interacts with the vagus nerve. And you can set it to provide a wide range of effects for you.

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You could have it to be really calming. You could have it set to like a recovery mode to you know help you rebound after emotional stress or physical stress or illness.

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You can set it to. Social mode which helps you connect more easily with others as a neurodivergent person that's helpful for me so I don't get overwhelmed in social settings.

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It's also really good when you want to do creative work, the social setting is. And then there's like focus.

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So also that's another good one when my brain is like squirrels running everywhere. The focus piece is really really helpful.

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So, those are all tools that I use in my work. I have a private practice so I see clients.

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Individually that way. I also run a nonprofit that works with survivors of human trafficking and their family members.

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The people who receive services through the nonprofit, of course, receive those services. Free of charge. And accessibility to.

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Trauma Recovery Services is a huge passion of mine. Making sure that people who need the services most can access them, marginalize folks in particular having easier access.

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2 services is really important. And that's also why I'm writing the book that I'm writing because I don't know what mental health care services cost in other parts of the world, but I know here It can be between a hundred and a hundred $50.

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Per hour. To meet with someone to help with trauma recovery. And. A lot of marginalized folks don't have that kind of money.

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So with a book.

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This is I want to get to the book definitely want to get to the bit but before before we do this has all been really fascinating I didn't know any of this at all I'd never heard of any of this at all I've been really fascinating. I didn't know any of this at all. I'd never heard of any of these devices.

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Yeah.

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Will now be googling all plenty to go and do some research about the thing I'm finding most interesting as someone who is I would like to say trauma informed but is by no means an expert.

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One of the things I am not seeing with a lot of my clients is that oftentimes especially because the people I see carry often or multiple marginalized identity.

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So they're often neuro divergent. And, you're almost sunny fat.

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And often times hold other marginalized entities and oftentimes have experienced a lot of trauma.

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And so I spend time talking about medical trauma because that's my bit, you know, but But you can't just isolate medical trauma with, you know, a background of all this other trauma.

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So of course we get into childhood trauma and unsurprisingly, there's a lot of that and Sometimes it can be so overwhelming.

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Like, like you said, like. Just to try, just trying to sort of. Comes to terms with one T out of all the T's.

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And take such a long time and we might not have the time or the resources, the money or whatever and people will like therapy therapy is the solution and hey I'm going to therapy for years I'm a big believer in therapy but I also appreciate that it's not possible for everybody and even if it is possible for everybody, doesn't work the same way.

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It's like exercise, you know, exercise doesn't cure everything. Neither does therapy. So it's fascinating to me that there are other options and that you're talking about kind of trauma recovery in a way that has very little to do with talking and much more to do with like resetting the brain.

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So that's like. When somebody who has all of this knowledge and experience All there things that people can do and perhaps the books will come into it are there things people can do that for example can't get hold of this machine or whatever.

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Like are there things that we can be doing that isn't? Just talking. That goes beyond that when it comes to dealing with trauma.

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Absolutely, I think that having a growing awareness of simple tools that folks can use is really important to make.

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Hereing more accessible to more people.

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The other piece with talking that can be difficult is that we get dissociation. A lot of times.

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Hmm.

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With trauma. And some of us, myself included, have dissociative disorders. And so talking can be not only difficult but like counterproductive.

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Right.

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Not always, there there are some things that I need to talk about that most of us need to talk about but to start there to have that as a starting place can be.

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Hmm.

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Triggering and counterproductive for some people. Not all that some people so Yes, one of the things that I love about something like heartmap is that the techniques that we use.

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And heart math are techniques that people can use with or without the device. You don't have to purchase the device.

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To gain the benefits of the exercises. You won't get the feedback on the screen, but you should still feel a difference.

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Hmm.

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Inside of you, right? I remember the first time that I went for my personal Heart math appointment for the very first time with a biofeedback therapist.

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And I was tied up in knots. In fact, I was sort of deconstructing some things at the time and had me stressed out and activated.

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And she said to me, Okay, focus on the area of your heart. Breathe in and out.

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Through the area of your heart. A little more gently and easily than usual. And like I wanted to cry it was such a relief to pause.

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And to go to that space and it wasn't. Somebody telling me to take deep breaths or hear, breathe.

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Hmm.

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Based on this counting to 4. As a trauma survivor can be triggering because it's not allowing me to choose what feels safe and right for me in my body.

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Hmm.

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But just. Focusing on the area of the heart and letting the breath flow in and out through the area of the heart and I get to be in charge of how that happens.

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It was such like a warm blanket of relief in that moment just breathing in and out through the heart and I would say that I mean I learned other techniques as we built on that but probably the first month or 2 simply pausing to do that throughout my day brought me so much relief.

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I mean, Honestly, I started making different choices with this whole deconstruction issue. I, you know, changed up relationships in my life.

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And it all started from this heart-focused breathing. Because it was getting my body out of light, freezing fawn.

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Right.

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So then I could think again, like my frontal lobe could come back online and I could make decisions that were resonant with who I really was as a person versus decisions.

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Based in how do I survive. So that is one. Excellent starting point that I think a lot of people might consider.

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And I will also say if the area of the heart is for some reason. Not helpful or it is triggering for a person because of where that is on the body.

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You can choose anywhere you want. Choose a place in the body that feels safe. For you. Maybe it is.

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Your big toe or Maybe it is your hand. Or the top of your head or whatever it might be.

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So just kind of tapping into the fact that. Like we all have different ideas about what feels. Save or cozy or healing in our bodies and we can choose to.

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Breathe. There and we can choose how we read.

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It's such a gentle, I, just as you're explaining it feels really gentle and it feels very kind and nourishing and just really peaceful, this idea.

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Of you know just focusing on one particular part of your body and choosing that part of your body and and not having to sort of subscribe to a certain pattern don't you think that a lot of I'm gonna say health care for want of better word.

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Is about prescribing things to people like, you know, there's always a, you know, if you do this and if you do this and if you do this and if you do this, then you'll get better and I always found that.

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As a trauma survivor, really hard to do because One of the biggest things about trauma is your your autonomy, your power is gone.

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And then here are people who are supposedly trying to help you but they're just you know, they have power now.

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They have, they, they just, they take pick up on that power and, and it never feels like you have any control over I don't want to say your recovery, but you know your your ability to process what's happened to you, whereas this feels like a very much like you're in charge of this, you know, like you pick the right place and the right way to do it and not having to talk about

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it. A lot of people I speak to like the talking about it just because it takes you into the moment and if you're not careful you can Stay there.

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It's very difficult, especially if you have a history of And they say associating or people who have a history of post-traumatic.

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Stress especially if you have flashbacks especially if you are prone to looping in those flashbacks and you know, sometimes, you know, I've personal experience of like I've gone and I've talked about it and then I'm just looping over and over and over and over.

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I can't escapes like being in a I don't know. Like some kind of fairground Ryan and not being able to get off.

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And so you're right, like sometimes there needs to be something else and I love hearing all the different options that are available.

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Tell me a bit about the book, like what's the plan for the book? What are you hoping to be able to?

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Pass on to people.

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Hmm.

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Absolutely. So the book is also ultimately about accessibility to Trauma recovery options for the masses for people who typically might have a harder time accessing.

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Services. Also, a lot of the books on the market are very academic in tone. And even as somebody who went to school for this, when I found myself in my own mental health crisis due to my trauma responses.

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Yeah. Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I could not digest. The book, they felt like almost like they were. Objectifying me I was their little lab rat to experiment on.

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And I needed something that. Was going to feel like it was giving me a safe hug and it that was not it.

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So I'm hoping that the book that I'm currently writing will feel like a warm hug for people.

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And that it will for those who need to understand. Why they can't just get past their trauma, why that is.

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From A neuroscience perspective. To validate their experiences that really They're doing their best. They're remarkable.

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Their bodies are remarkable. Their minds are remarkable for helping them to survive. And get to this point. And then that's the first quarter or so of the book.

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And then the other 3 quarters of the book. Are basically a smorgasbord of options for different ways to find healing in a wide range of price ranges and accessibility and things that people can open the book when they're in emotional pain.

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And find something. To provide at least a little bit of relief. And hopefully build on that over time.

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In order to experience greater healing, greater trauma processing and Great. Freedom from these trauma responses that we often experience.

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That's what I'm trying to do there and I like what you have just said about the experience of not having choice in.

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Hmm.

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Medical environments. And. And for that reason, in fact, also why I like what you're doing in the work you're doing with the courses that you're offering people.

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To learn how to. Advocate. For their needs and for basic human respect and decency.

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And medical environments. And that is a huge tool for Trauma recovery as well and I mean I found your work through my own processing of my own medical trauma

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So.

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Hmm. It's really interesting you say that one of the things that I'm beginning to realize And I think you'll probably agree with me.

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And it's probably like a really like clever reason for this but I don't know you I'm sure you'll tell me but

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Is just a lack of tenderness and warmth and just kind of you know because we as doctors we put our hands on people all the time.

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Yeah.

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Sometimes we put our hands into people, which is even more dramatic, but even just touching people examining an E or or listening to someone's chest like oscillating like all of those things actually even just looking at someone's ear, it's a hands-on experience.

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And I think we know that communication is primarily non-verbal and there's something about Kind of watching of patients like an ad.

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I don't mean this to come across as weird. You know what I mean, like physically touching a patient.

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That lacks the warmth or the nurturing or the healing that is essentially intended. Like this is This is what we're meant to be doing, especially bringing healing to people.

00:28:11.000 --> 00:28:12.000
Hmm.

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You can't heal people if you're touched. Is radiating disgust or kind of whatever like unconscious bias.

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And I think, you know, I think there is a reason why doctors are less inclined to examine their fat patients and we have evidence to support this but I just wonder a lot about the kind of not just touch but also just kind of like the warmth and the The kindness and the healing that we should be radiating as health care professionals that we don't and there are certain groups of people that I think you know, like if like.

00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:51.000
oh, you know, if what temperature is kind of like a medium for some people and maybe warm for some people when it comes to marginalized bodies it's cold.

00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:52.000
Hmm. Hmm.

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Sometimes very cold and sometimes freezing. And people get that and I and I think that that in of itself is actually very traumatising.

00:28:59.000 --> 00:29:05.000
Having to go and see a doctor that is Perhaps physically repulsed by you, but just like lax.

00:29:05.000 --> 00:29:25.000
The basic human. Kindness, compassion. Warmth tenderness that we should be in there something I keep thinking about like the physical kind of aspect of the consultation and how you know, how hurtful sometimes it can be, cause we kind of know about the words, we kind of know about the things that people are saying.

00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:37.000
But I wanted to focus more. You know, on what people are not saying and what people are doing as well because I think that's really This is the thought that popped into my head and what you were saying and I don't even know why.

00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:49.000
I think it's an important thought and it has a lot to do with this idea of Co-regulation.

00:29:49.000 --> 00:30:02.000
So our nervous systems actually communicate with one another. When we're in each other's presence, even when we're not touching, but even more so when we are touching.

00:30:02.000 --> 00:30:11.000
So for instance, if I'm activated. I come see you and you are well regulated.

00:30:11.000 --> 00:30:31.000
And you are talking with me and you are say you're a physician who's examining me and your hands touch me and then my nervous system picks up on the signals from your nervous system that says This is a safe person.

00:30:31.000 --> 00:30:41.000
This is a safe place. I don't have to be on high alert here and it can change how my nervous system is functioning.

00:30:41.000 --> 00:31:11.000
Just because your nervous system is functioning in a well regulated calm way. Conversely though, If I walk into a medical appointment and I think a lot of us have had this experience and that physician is not well regulated either because They're disgusted by me or they have their unconscious bias or whatever they might be or they've.

00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:13.000
Hmm.

00:31:13.000 --> 00:31:18.000
Been working for 14 h and haven't eaten anything and you know, they're at the end of their personal rope.

00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:26.000
So they are activated or, you know, something tragic happened with the patient and they haven't had time to process it yet.

00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:37.000
So their nervous system is dysregulated and I come in and I'm already scared and activated because I have past medical trauma.

00:31:37.000 --> 00:31:49.000
And then they walk in the room and they're dysregulated as well. Our nervous systems are talking to each other and they're nervous system is going to be saying to my nervous system, I'm not a safe person.

00:31:49.000 --> 00:31:57.000
This is not a safe space. I'm activated too. We should all be activated. In fact, let's get more activated.

00:31:57.000 --> 00:32:04.000
So, and everything in me is going to go in high alert like they're going to take my blood pressure and it's going to be off the chart my part rate is going to be really high.

00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:24.000
And like my breath rate is going to be high. And then I'm also going to be less receptive as well to anything that said to me.

00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:25.000
Yeah.

00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:35.000
I'm not gonna be in a space to. Share. Empathetic. You know, communication or to share of my experiences even even to communicate well with the doctor and give details about what's going on with me.

00:32:35.000 --> 00:32:46.000
So. I think about how when we go into like a fat positive massage space or energy workspace.

00:32:46.000 --> 00:33:14.000
How those professionals, so much of their training is about centering themselves with breath. And energetically and spiritually and warming up their hands and being a healing presence.

00:33:14.000 --> 00:33:15.000
Hmm.

00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:18.000
And I think that That I mean it does wonders for our nervous systems in that environment. So what if We took that kind of approach into a medical setting and how would that be different for us?

00:33:18.000 --> 00:33:20.000
Hmm.

00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:27.000
Even amongst like our fat positive doctors who are out there. If they consciously made that choice. 2.

00:33:27.000 --> 00:33:34.000
Be well regulated walking into the room as well. Yeah.

00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:45.000
I love that. I love that you just explained it and and I know there's going to be some people listening who just had like a light bulb moment and went, oh, that's been so much because sometimes you can walk out of an appointment.

00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:54.000
And think there wasn't one particular thing that I could put my finger on that went terribly wrong but the whole experience fell.

00:33:54.000 --> 00:34:17.000
You know, sometimes the word is Icky or just painful shaming or trauma, but you couldn't even say why exactly and I think Just listening to what you just said, I'm going to have to play that back.

00:34:17.000 --> 00:34:18.000
Hmm.

00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:28.000
Several times to really let that sink in. But also the heat, the healer or the health care professional in me As you were talking about it, it makes me think that when I'm treating children subconsciously I am coming from a place of I need to somehow communicate this child that I'm safe because it's a child.

00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:39.000
And it kicks in a sort of maternal instinct paternal instinct, you know, parental instinct that kind of just kind of goes, I've got to make this child feel safe and so.

00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:48.000
It absolutely changes the way we talk to children but even if it's not talking just examining children is a completely different thing than examining an adult.

00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:58.000
But why should it be? You know, why should we make that effort to be calm and to regulate our own nervous system because I do, I know I do when I'm dealing with a child, I automatically do it.

00:34:58.000 --> 00:35:03.000
When I'm dealing with a dying patient, I do it. When I'm dealing with a patient that has.

00:35:03.000 --> 00:35:09.000
That you know is just experienced and made a physical trauma like you know. It has been injured or it's something serious.

00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:12.000
I'm doing everything I can to radiate calm. I am breathing. I am doing it intentionally.

00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:26.000
Or subconsciously it's become, you know, natural to me. But we don't make that like a, like you say, like just normal practice, but we perhaps should be.

00:35:26.000 --> 00:35:37.000
And that's given me so much food for thought. Do you think you kids as long as they've done it down, it's horrible thing to say.

00:35:37.000 --> 00:35:45.000
Why don't I sort of make it like super basic? Could you explain? The impact that trauma has on the brain and the body.

00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:48.000
But like in a like super super like. Don't know a thing. Don't know anything about it.

00:35:48.000 --> 00:35:53.000
Just basic level

00:35:53.000 --> 00:36:12.000
Absolutely. So essentially trauma is when something happens to us that is beyond our ability to cope. So what happens to one person that is a trauma may or may not be a trauma to another person.

00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:26.000
The question is, Do we have the skills, the resources? And the support. To cope with and process this thing that has just happened.

00:36:26.000 --> 00:36:29.000
If the answer is yes, it may be a difficult life experience, but it may may not impact our minds and bodies.

00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:43.000
In the same way. As if we don't. Have those skills too. Process and that's when it's trauma.

00:36:43.000 --> 00:36:50.000
Also, I want to make really clear it's not our fault if we don't have the skills necessary.

00:36:50.000 --> 00:37:02.000
To cope with that situation. Because traumas are situations nobody. Should have to cope with. They're not something we can plan for.

00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:15.000
Shouldn't have to plan for so it's not ever your fault or anybody's fault when they Don't have the coping ability to process something.

00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:24.000
But when we don't have the ability to process something. Our brain goes. Hey! Let me help you survive.

00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:26.000
Hmm.

00:37:26.000 --> 00:37:37.000
When it does that it changes how it functions. So that it can be more efficient as if like a bear is chasing us.

00:37:37.000 --> 00:37:44.000
We're trying to run away, right? So the bear is chasing us and we're trying to run away.

00:37:44.000 --> 00:38:14.000
Then the brain is gonna change. How it deals with memory. It's gonna focus more on this moment now and getting away from the bear memory will become more choppy because we're actually diverting resources in our body to like increase blood flow to our heart.

00:38:16.000 --> 00:38:17.000
Okay.

00:38:17.000 --> 00:38:24.000
And to other muscles and to release like adrenaline into the body which is like a mega dose of like think caffeine but more give us a big push so that we are strong enough and fast enough to run away.

00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:35.000
From the bear. And so it's actually really phenomenal what our bodies do. To help us serve these traumas.

00:38:35.000 --> 00:38:49.000
What can happen is when a trauma is severe enough or We have enough. Smaller traumas that we're sitting in trauma soup.

00:38:49.000 --> 00:39:02.000
Then all these chemicals that released into our bloodstream the adrenaline cortisol all that kind of stuff norepinephrine Right.

00:39:02.000 --> 00:39:16.000
Will sit in our bodies. We're like flooded with it. So instead of it being this occasional thing to help us run away from the bear, our bodies like we're always running from the bear.

00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:17.000
Which is exhausting!

00:39:17.000 --> 00:39:20.000
Yeah.

00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:34.000
It's exhausting. And. We get tapped out. And all those things in our bloodstream constantly causes inflammation.

00:39:34.000 --> 00:39:46.000
In our bodies. Which is why so many of us who are trauma survivors have more chronic health conditions.

00:39:46.000 --> 00:40:00.000
So if we wanna break it down really simply that, you know, that's how it works. And if your brain is still running from the bear all the time and probably has really good reason why it thinks it needs to.

00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:12.000
Right? But then. Our resiliency in the face of everyday stressors. Becomes a lot smaller.

00:40:12.000 --> 00:40:24.000
So. You know, it might be that we have a much shorter fuse than somebody who has been through some of the things that we've been through.

00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:33.000
Or it might be that part of the way our brain keeps running from the bear is to Say, oh, this is so much trauma.

00:40:33.000 --> 00:40:54.000
I need to segment it out into different compartments. And then we, our brain checks out. It has all these different compartments that we can dissociate and we might dissociate into a compartment that only carries some of our difficult memories, but not all of them because it's easier to function there.

00:40:54.000 --> 00:41:02.000
And then we may have different dissociative parts that can handle different things in life, may have, we may dissociate into one part that can handle the going to work bit.

00:41:02.000 --> 00:41:30.000
And then we have another part that can handle the raising of the kids bit. And another part they can handle the children bit in another part that can, you know, deal with the chaos of shopping in a supermarket or whatever.

00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:31.000
Hmm.

00:41:31.000 --> 00:41:33.000
So But whatever it is, you know, trauma can cause. Our brains to do that to protect us and So if, you know.

00:41:33.000 --> 00:41:53.000
It feels like we're going through life and We're like walking through mud or we have trouble remembering things or losing time or flashbacks are coming in, this that and the other thing that's a lot of the reason why it's part of how our brains keep running from that bear.

00:41:53.000 --> 00:42:06.000
Right. We haven't really spoken. We've come, I've not touched on it yet, but we have to before we finish.

00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:07.000
Yes.

00:42:07.000 --> 00:42:13.000
You and I have a few things in common. Many things in common. Like, we both identify as non-BIn.

00:42:13.000 --> 00:42:14.000
Yeah, yeah.

00:42:14.000 --> 00:42:17.000
Do you, do identifies trans non binary? I want to put that in your, yeah, you've, that interface.

00:42:17.000 --> 00:42:26.000
So, we're both in a Multi-racial kind of family units. So our partners are both black.

00:42:26.000 --> 00:42:27.000
Yes.

00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:38.000
And our kids are. Biracial, multi-racial. But I didn't, you know, all.

00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:39.000
Right.

00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:42.000
Perceived as being black. So we are white parents of. Black children or you know. Yeah.

00:42:42.000 --> 00:42:47.000
Right. Yeah.

00:42:47.000 --> 00:42:57.000
Yeah.

00:42:57.000 --> 00:43:07.000
Okay.

00:43:07.000 --> 00:43:08.000
Yeah.

00:43:08.000 --> 00:43:14.000
We have a lovely little queer family, both of us. So we kind of have a lot of similar experiences of course you are raising your children and you know in rural North Carolina, slightly different to Lovely liberal Scotland, although I used to live in England, which I reckon is about as poxic as North Carolina at the moment politically but All of those things and of course with that like did I mention that part?

00:43:14.000 --> 00:43:15.000
Okay.

00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:29.000
I think that was pretty obvious so we have some understanding of you know, what it's like to hold marginalized identities or to love someone who holds a marginalized identity and to witness how that impacts them.

00:43:29.000 --> 00:43:35.000
And I'm just like. Not because we talked about trauma and that's what we've been focusing on today.

00:43:35.000 --> 00:43:43.000
I'd love to talk about how that intersects with trauma. And

00:43:43.000 --> 00:43:46.000
But looking at it through that lens. Thank you.

00:43:46.000 --> 00:43:55.000
Absolutely. Yeah. So to give an example, I went to go vote in the primaries. This past week.

00:43:55.000 --> 00:43:56.000
Hmm.

00:43:56.000 --> 00:44:03.000
And I won't get into everything that happened, but I was not met with kindness by people in the parking lot.

00:44:03.000 --> 00:44:16.000
So when I got there, it was clear that this was not a safe environment for me. And I think they notice several things, probably my pink hair, my rainbow watch.

00:44:16.000 --> 00:44:25.000
My naked lady tattoo. The clothes that I was wearing that were very not. Rural North Carolina.

00:44:25.000 --> 00:44:38.000
They were masculine and feminine and the top was slightly sheer so there's that you know around here it's kind of supposed to cover everything up.

00:44:38.000 --> 00:44:52.000
So as soon as I got out of the car I was met with not kindness. And then when I went in to vote, it was like the.

00:44:52.000 --> 00:44:53.000
Hmm.

00:44:53.000 --> 00:45:00.000
Not believing I was who I said I was. Issue when it came to looking at my ID because that's now required here in North Carolina.

00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:10.000
It was this air of suspicion. And so after that. I had my own trauma response that I needed to work through.

00:45:10.000 --> 00:45:26.000
And I think, you know, going through the world with. Multiple intersecting. Marginalized identities that's kinda like how that is a lot of times it's going through daily life not knowing.

00:45:26.000 --> 00:45:42.000
When those things are going to pop up and we're going to need to deal with them and the rest of the world is going to expect us to keep functioning as if nothing is wrong yet it feels Like we're enraged and our hearts are breaking and we're activated all at the same time.

00:45:42.000 --> 00:46:04.000
It is traumatic. So, you know. After an experience like that, which is by the way just an intensification of.

00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:05.000
Yeah.

00:46:05.000 --> 00:46:07.000
The regular experience of moving through the world every day where we pick up on microaggressions from people, right?

00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:08.000
Hmm.

00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:20.000
But. We need special. Self-care and it can be challenging to do that in a world that's telling us we must keep functioning as if nothing is wrong.

00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:39.000
I think, you know. We're supposed to still show up for work and smile and And if if you happen to share the experience with people who don't have a lived frame of reference for it, they'll be like, oh that's too bad and it's almost like it's a a political thing for them and not a personal thing.

00:46:39.000 --> 00:46:52.000
So finding personal support. We need spaces. With people who share. Some of our.

00:46:52.000 --> 00:47:03.000
Identities so that we can share and receive. Support in the safe spaces. That's one thing I love about the waiting room, right?

00:47:03.000 --> 00:47:19.000
We can go there and share things in our life, you know, good challenging or otherwise. And get that support and know that the people who are in that space sharing that space with us get it because they're there as well.

00:47:19.000 --> 00:47:20.000
Hmm.

00:47:20.000 --> 00:47:26.000
And that's kind of like what. We need or at least I know what I need a lot of times in those moments.

00:47:26.000 --> 00:47:37.000
Yeah, yeah, you were saying like you know the running from the bear analogy when you are when you when you are fat and you're navigating the world as a fat especially a very fat person.

00:47:37.000 --> 00:47:38.000
Yeah.

00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:44.000
Or, you want to identify or, you know, if you're trans or if you're black, or if you're trans or if you're black, black, certainly Brown and I, it's the first thing that people will notice, right?

00:47:44.000 --> 00:47:53.000
Or because And I think that sort of separates you. I'm not going to say from the majority, but.

00:47:53.000 --> 00:48:09.000
From the kind of the systems and structures that are in place. You know, that said this is this is the correct way to be and so anything that different differs from that is the, you know, I guess the wrong way to be and when you're walking around like that.

00:48:09.000 --> 00:48:10.000
Yeah.

00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:30.000
But you're constantly running from a bed because because people just, they automatically dislike you. They like without having to do anything, especially if it's really visible and that's the thing like I'm not saying that invisible things aren't difficult because they're just as difficult to deal with but when you have like a visible kind of identity that you can't hide from.

00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:31.000
Hmm.

00:48:31.000 --> 00:48:39.000
You just even just walking down the street is, you know, is, is, is in a way running from a bear.

00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:40.000
Okay.

00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:43.000
It's really hard to be like, yeah, we need to regulate our nervous system. Sure. I mean, like, we do, but it's kind of hard because we live in a world that just absolutely refuses to allow us to do that.

00:48:43.000 --> 00:48:48.000
And also when you were talking about like that really challenging circumstance that you know that we are not able to process.

00:48:48.000 --> 00:49:11.000
Of course our ability to process is you know it's much easier if you have multiple privileges. So the other on the other side like we talk about kind of oppression and marginalization but also if you're privileged then you just have more resources and you're probably better equipped to deal with.

00:49:11.000 --> 00:49:34.000
Difficult situations. Now that of course if you have a history of childhood trauma that doesn't necessarily apply to you, you be very privileged, like I, you know, I'm trans, but until recently I presented as a cis woman and white and you know not disabled and you know, fat, but other than that, I would say quite privileged to have multiple privileges.

00:49:34.000 --> 00:49:43.000
But then of course I had childhood trauma and so it, you know, it was a bit of this and a bit of that, but I still think I had the ability to process even like.

00:49:43.000 --> 00:49:55.000
Like if I had to, I could take a day off work sick. Like that even that is such a privilege to be able to compare to some people so you've definitely given us so much.

00:49:55.000 --> 00:50:00.000
Food for thought. See, I always keep saying that. It's like boring now, in our fashion.

00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:01.000
Yeah.

00:50:01.000 --> 00:50:08.000
You said about community. I could not agree more. It's why I created the waiting room. It's because I wanted to start just for selfish reasons.

00:50:08.000 --> 00:50:11.000
I wanted to space where I could hang up really cool people and I tell you they're all really cool.

00:50:11.000 --> 00:50:12.000
Okay.

00:50:12.000 --> 00:50:24.000
And I used to have a Facebook group and the problem with the Facebook I think is the problem with Facebook is that like just everybody can post whatever they want to.

00:50:24.000 --> 00:50:25.000
Hmm.

00:50:25.000 --> 00:50:27.000
And and sometimes I could find that in of itself quite triggering for want of better word because someone would post something and I was like I don't actually want to have to deal with that today.

00:50:27.000 --> 00:50:40.000
So I excuse myself from that community. Which is why I'm kind of like really digging the discord because with discord you go into different rooms or different like channels for different things so you can avoid the ranty ones when you don't want to run.

00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:47.000
And you can go, you know, we've got one. Can I quit that spirituality?

00:50:47.000 --> 00:50:48.000
I think so. Yeah.

00:50:48.000 --> 00:50:49.000
Is that what I called it in the end? Recorded. Yeah, that was my favorite. I'm really like that.

00:50:49.000 --> 00:50:51.000
And that worship, that worship is awesome.

00:50:51.000 --> 00:50:58.000
I love that one. If that was yes, the imagery in there is awesome. Yeah.

00:50:58.000 --> 00:51:02.000
Just, just like, yeah, I just, I think we needed to post more and more photos of us.

00:51:02.000 --> 00:51:03.000
Like being absolutely awesome. Hazel, who many of you will know and who may well be listening to this.

00:51:03.000 --> 00:51:17.000
And post some incredible photos and I was probably jealous and then thought I actually need to get some photos done like this that I can post my own but it's been quite wonderful.

00:51:17.000 --> 00:51:29.000
Building community and having you in my life so grateful to have met you and I'm looking forward to further developing our friendship and hopefully working with you in the future.

00:51:29.000 --> 00:51:37.000
Sure that will be a thing. You'll have to come back when the books. Done. Obviously to talk about the book.

00:51:37.000 --> 00:51:49.000
But like is there any way that like you you know, This is the part, this is the part of the podcast where I'm just saying, where could people find you, Anne?

00:51:49.000 --> 00:51:50.000
Good.

00:51:50.000 --> 00:52:03.000
Yeah. Okay, well you could Google me if you Google me all kinds of different stuff will come up, but also if you're on Instagram, you can go to An with an E and N.

00:52:03.000 --> 00:52:15.000
Kinsey KINS EY and dot Kenzie. Rights. And Kenzie writes, there's a period between the words.

00:52:15.000 --> 00:52:24.000
And Kanzi dot right. You can find me there. Post a lot of unedited Colms?

00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:38.000
Where I'll have a poetry prompt kind of like in the morning usually when I first get up sometimes I do it later in the day and I post whatever is on the top of my head or in my heart like almost as soon as I wake up in the morning.

00:52:38.000 --> 00:52:48.000
So a lot of it has to do with intersectional identity is moving through the world as queer.

00:52:48.000 --> 00:52:56.000
Finding joy. Fat joy, queer joy. All the joy, healing, whatever is on my heart.

00:52:56.000 --> 00:53:03.000
And then I do, you know, regular posts as well where I just talk about life stuff, trauma stuff.

00:53:03.000 --> 00:53:22.000
Try to provide encouragement to people. I hope it's a space that people can come to and feel like they can receive some sort of emotional or spiritual nourishment from what's there, not religious.

00:53:22.000 --> 00:53:23.000
Spiritual.

00:53:23.000 --> 00:53:30.000
Yeah, I was gonna say it is that space. I can say that.

00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:31.000
Yeah.

00:53:31.000 --> 00:53:35.000
I look. But yeah, I mean, like. Why would you not want to follow and now?

00:53:35.000 --> 00:53:43.000
Like. Why would you listen to this whole thing and not want to follow? And also, thank you so much for, you know, you really like.

00:53:43.000 --> 00:53:47.000
Taught me so much and this ever said I don't even care if anyone else has learned from it I certainly have and really mine is the most important opinion.

00:53:47.000 --> 00:53:54.000
I'm we're gonna leave it there we're gonna wrap up I would like to say I know what's happening next week.

00:53:54.000 --> 00:54:01.000
I don't plan that far ahead. But it will be something. I'll show up and that.

00:54:01.000 --> 00:54:10.000
Yeah, it's gotta be count for something. Thanks so much and for being here. See you next time everyone.