Let's talk about sex!

Today Asher is joined by Tamara Pincus, a licensed clinical social worker and AASECT certified sex therapist, with a specialty in working with kinky, polyamorous and LGBTQIA+ clients. She runs the Pincus Centre for Inclusive Treatment and Education in Washington, DC. They specialized in sex therapy and relationship counseling, as well as coaching, support groups, one-off workshops, multi-session sex and relationship classes, and accessible web resources.

Tamara and Asher discuss sex through a fat positive, trauma informed and social justice lens. In true Asher style, there was little to no preparation before he hit record so be prepared for it to get a little messy at times.

You can find all about Tamara and the Pincus Centre on the website 

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Transcript

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Hey everyone, so I can't remember what ever since. I think 16. I think it's 16. It might not be.

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But that's because I'm not really organized today because I'm too excited and I'm too excited because I have a guest on who I basically was desperate to have on the podcast and I didn't have to do any persuading at all.

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She was just very gracious and said, Sure. So I'm very excited. To introduce you to Tamara Pinkus, who is someone I met again through the waiting room.

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She's part of my waiting room family and she's an amazingly interesting, fascinating person who is going to talk to us all about sex.

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Oh yeah, baby. I was gonna sing the song, but I'm not because I'm been professional.

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I'll do it at some point in time. Don't worry. Now tomorrow among many other things is the person who told me that a rhino is a fat unicorn.

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Which already makes for a legend in my mind, but I'm gonna let her introduce herself and tell us about what she does apart from telling me amazing things.

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Hi.

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So hi, I am Door Pincus and I am a licensed clinical social worker and I'm an ASEC certified sex therapist and sex therapy supervisor and I run a group practice where we to sex therapy and sex education and coaching.

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We do a lot of classes around things like fat liberation and polyamory and all the fun stuff.

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So, so yeah, so that's what I do.

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I can already tell this is just part one of multiple podcasts I'm gonna beg you to come on because I've already like I'm like I like a child in a in a like in a you know around Christmas and in a like a really big like Macy's type store going or what first?

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What do I do first? What do I do fast? Because we don't talk about sex as often as we should do and I love the fact that you are kind of an expert.

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About at least at the very least not necessarily having sex but at least talking about sex.

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Good. Yeah.

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I mean, I like to think I'm an expert at having sex as well. I don't talk about publicly as much people tend to get weird about it, but I I have been saying since I started by practice in 2,011 that I take my work related research seriously.

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Okay.

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Amazing. I think that's the person who has both the lived experience and the knowledge as well.

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That's that's the sweet spot. I want to talk about sex but I want to specifically talk about sex you know through the the lens of kind of fat liberation, as it were.

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So I ask you to do this already and you've done it so brilliantly and you did like such a good kind of you did a come I'll say that you had a PowerPoint presentation for me I asked you what other like the The 3 or 4 things that you'd want people to know, everything.

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About sex as a fat person and you did this incredible presentation which I'm so grateful for but tell me like the first thing that comes to your mind or the first 3 things, whatever, however you want to answer that question, what do you want people to know?

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So I want everybody to know that they've been lied to about sex the story that we've been told about sexuality is just wrong.

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We've been told that how you measure good sex or a good sex life is basically about how many times a penis has entered a vagina.

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And sorry, I can get a little explicit. Yeah.

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Okay. Yeah.

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Hmm. Oh no no no you must be explicit I mean I'm not doing a content warning like if you don't wanna if you don't listen hang up like stop press pause to the next episode.

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We're talking about sex if people can't handle penises and vaginas. Then we've got problems.

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Keep going.

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Exactly. So that's what we've been told good sexes and that's what people are striving for.

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People come into sex therapy all the time, you know, I'm having problems with directions. For some reason I can't orgasm from penetration and and and I just I have to break their minds because because The whole point is pleasure.

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Hmm.

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We are having sex for pleasure. And sometimes with a lot of people, we have to go all the way back to the beginning of Well, first of all, it's okay to experience pleasure and I'm not just talking about sexual pleasure.

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I'm talking about all pleasure. We have been told to deny. Our bodies. And that is a big part of fat oppression.

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We have been told to deny ourselves pleasure. Food is pleasure. Food was certainly the first pleasure for me.

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And I suspect for most people because you can't do much when you're born, you can, you can breastfeed, you could eat from a bottle and you can lay around and cry MP and sort of see things that are kind of blurry.

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And so the things that we start from as far as pleasure are very simple. And then we shut that down.

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First of all, we're supposed to like when we get older, we're supposed to be grossed out by the fact that we, that we were eating from sucking on tits.

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Like we've been taught that that's gross and we've been taught that, you know, genitals are gross and everything has to be covered all the time and we can't talk about it because we're going to freak our kids out and We've been told so many things.

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Hmm.

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Just sort of deny our sexuality and shut it down. And so a process of reconnecting with pleasure is long.

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Hmm.

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It is. Difficult, but it is full of delights. Let me tell you. Of delights.

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Yes, I love that and I love that you went straight in there for like the link between like food.

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And sex and sensuality and pleasure and all of that stuff because For me, the 2 have always been intertwined and I don't mean like bringing food into you know, into the bedroom necessarily.

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Although there's nothing wrong with that, but I'm talking about the fact that food is extremely pleasurable.

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And for me, sometimes It's a bit of a toss-up. Do I want food?

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You want sex? I mean, probably the answer is sex. The bay and depends on what I'm doing.

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Why not both? Sorry. As a bisexual, I'm always for the why not both.

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And We have been told not to enjoy. Yes. You're correct and I mean like I mean a day is not gonna go by with I don't have food.

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I'm not gonna pretend that they don't go by without me having sex, but, but pleasure.

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Okay.

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Pleasure has re-entered my life in the last few years. After denying myself for so long.

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And you're right, fat people are told that we're not allowed pleasure. We don't deserve it because we're fat.

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So.

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Right, and bodies are wrong and our bodies are not worthy of sexual pleasure. And if somebody to be interested in us.

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We better take that opportunity. And You know, there's just so much stigma in dating for fat people and it's interesting because BBW is one of the most searched or in terms, people aren't interested in fat people.

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People are attracted to fat people and yet somehow when somebody showed us that they are attracted to us in public.

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We're supposed to bend over backwards for them and do whatever they want. And and not have our own needs, not have needs for our own pleasure, like.

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I mean, it's fascinating. Like still I have, you know, I'm on all the dating apps because I'm polyamorous and completely obsessed with learning about sexuality.

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So I'm always like, what can I learn from the next person? And sometimes I will actually date them, but in those people don't make it to dating and a lot of the people that approach me.

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First of all, they treat me like I should be so honored. That somebody would be interested in dating the.

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And for those of you who are only like listening to this you don't have the video up. I'm a super fat person so you know I am like I'm fatter than Lane Bryant.

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So.

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Buzz, sexy fat is what that is.

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I'm like, yeah, like I'm, you know, I'm over 350 pounds.

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Like I am seriously fat. And, and so when people express attraction to me, they really seem to think that like first of all I should be surprised because this clearly is a thing that never happens to me and And it's wild because like even You know, I think people don't read profiles on a lot of dating apps, but even with it in there saying I'm a sex therapist.

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Right.

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People are like, obviously, nobody is interested in you. No, a lot of people are interested in me.

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Mostly they want to learn sexual skills that they don't already know and frankly. If I'm going to teach you that, I'm going to do it by just talking to you and with you paying me money as opposed to using my body, which is a perfectly noble thing to do and I will Absolutely refer you to a surrogate partner if that's what you need to do but but it's not what I'm

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Yeah.

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doing. It's certainly not what I'm doing on Tinder. Yeah.

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Right. And what? You ought like. Legend but a lot of fat people I think really do get it in their heads that actually you know, I should be grateful for every little scrap of attention or you know even if someone looks my way you know, that I should be grateful and I should bend over backwards and I should do whatever this person wants.

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Does that in your experience does that impact sex sexuality how people approach sex when you know if they're a fat person?

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Of course. So I've seen a lot of people who have sex that they don't want to have because they feel like they owe it to their partner or they're worried that like they've gained weight in the course of a long-term relationship and they're worried their partner will leave them so they're gonna have sex even if the sex is not that good or even if the sex isn't good for them at

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Right.

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all or even if the sex is painful. Because they're afraid of losing a partner, there are afraid they'll never find a partner again.

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And we don't hear a lot of narratives of people talking about what they find sex about fat people.

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Right.

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So there so I'm actually like primarily a therapist. But in my practice, I have somebody who's primarily an educator, a therapist, but in my practice, I have somebody who's primarily an educator, Rebecca Roosevelt, but in my practice, I have somebody who's primarily an educator, Rebecca Rose Vassi and she did a class for us called Big Lust.

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And one of the things she did was she went around and she gathered quotes from people talking about what about fat bodies that they loved.

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And so like there's all of these really GC quotes about, you know, I love to like grab onto bellies and I love feelings, feeling small and I love the softness of fat people's bodies and and you just do not hear that.

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Yes, that's right.

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Right.

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Walking around on the street. You just don't hear it anywhere, even though All these people are at home watching port of fat people, but I think there's I'm gonna just ramble.

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Right.

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But I think there's there's a complicated piece to the way people sexualize fitness. And you and I have talked about this before, that like sometimes people sexualize fatness is kind of like a thing that they are grossed out by.

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Like they want to fuck fat people behind closed doors. They want to fuck fat people at like BBW party.

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They want to go and fuck people in a quiet space or a loud space with a lot of people, but not, you know, they don't necessarily want to have relationships with us and like bring us home to their families and us.

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Yeah.

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And so you see this, long list of people who have been in long term relationships and they had to be a secret because the people were so ashamed to be with somebody who was fat.

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And We don't have to accept that. And it's not okay. But there's another aspect of fat sexuality and you know for me this goes back to like really ancient stuff and I'm sure you guys have all heard of you know the Venus of Willendorf and like all of those little statues of like fat women that you find in ancient Mesopotamia and But I think the thing that

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we miss about that sometimes is that that was Also a kind of body that was really sexualized and there are people even now who are like this is the body that I see as the model of a goddess.

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Of a goddess of fertility, of, of, you know, just true sexual abundance.

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Hmm.

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And I think people who can approach Fat people with this like You have so much to give. Literally, there's so much more of you to explore.

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There is so much more skin to kiss and love on and touch and all of that deserves not just touch but like real worship i mean i tend to think that when you go into the deeper, more spiritual parts of sexuality that it's really all about worshiping each other and worshiping ourselves and creating a sacred beautiful space to really dig into pleasure.

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That's a amazing and I think it goes against a lot of the things that we were taught. I think religion plays a role here.

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I think Like you said, you know, societal conditioning and the around being fat and and

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It's kind, it's like 2 sides to it, you know, and I agree with you for me.

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I'm never really felt comfortable in my own body until the last years. What I've realized now is part of being a fat person is that I really am taking pleasure as a fat person who is happy being fat.

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And who wants to be fat and is like I don't want to be thin anymore there is no part of me that wants to be thin I want my life to be better but I have got to the stage now where I'm like that's your fucking problem that's a world problem the world needs to take I'm not changing anymore But taking pleasure in things just in everything I have become much more in tune with my

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own body and with the world around me and with food and don't you think that's 1 of the beautiful things about fat people is like we will go out to restaurants and drink and eat and like once It's difficult because of the way people treat us.

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But we are we are taking pleasure in things that everyone else has been told you must deny yourself, right?

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And It is so my instinct is self-denial is one of the big issues when it comes to sex because we talk to deny ourselves in other areas as well.

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Do you find that in practice or is that me making stuff up?

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Oh no, absolutely self-denial is a big piece of sex and and particularly for people who are socialized as women.

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You know, trans women as well, I think, end up with this idea of like, I have to pleasure my partner and their pleasure is more important than mine.

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Hmm.

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And, And I feel like, you know. The relationship that people have with poor now. Like I feel like I I generally like I'm not like a anti-war warrior or anything.

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I just think that like most mainstream porn has Just very tied up in misogyny and in focusing on sex.

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Yes.

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Almost as like a violent act. And I'm a person who's in some sort of the intersection of some sex and violence like I've been it into BDSM since as long as I can remember but but there's a difference between like I'm gonna choke you and fuck your throat and and like I'm gonna to high you up and flog you until you're high as a

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Hmm.

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kite. Like I feel like. Some kinds of BDSM are about accessing. Altered states and experiencing pleasure and some kinds are not.

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Yeah.

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Like I'm sure you get to an altered state from some of those things. I just sometimes think first of all that altered seat might be trauma.

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Second of all, that altered state might be I've just passed out because I've been choked until I, out and there's like, great damage that comes from that, but like.

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You know, it's a whole thing. Anyway, I'm Debbie Herbanic, has released recent research on that and like, I'm seeing it both with due to approach me on the internet and with like what my kids think of as normal.

00:16:59.000 --> 00:17:00.000
Hmm.

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From their experience in the world. And the fact that my kids can even talk to me about that, which is like mind blowing. But anyway, sorry.

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I'm rambling again. I guess that's what we're, Okay.

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No, rambling is great. This is what people tune in for the rambling. I know if they if we've got to season 4 and they're still tuned in like they hate for the I wanted to get in because you mentioned about BBW you mentioned about King.

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I don't know if I'm necessarily outing myself as, being in a king can begin to be decent, but like you have been for quite some time.

00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:36.000
Perhaps. Excuse me. That wasn't that was like a poorly timed cough. Sorry.

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It's okay. I, you're good, you're good.

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That's not me feeling awkward. That's just simply me hoping. so, and having for a long time, and I don't think that's going to come as a surprise to many people, but my experience of BDSM versus porn BDSM. It's like complete 2 different things.

00:17:48.000 --> 00:18:17.000
I do not recognize. The BDSM that I know in port. One of the things that I like about Kink is, is actually how, or the cake that I know and maybe it's changing a little bit maybe it is changing but the king that I know is about all the kind of like misfits and the ones that don't fit in and the ones that like much more free and

00:18:17.000 --> 00:18:41.000
liberated and like you say. Pain and pleasure. There's a fine line and like Med, you know, that technically, physiologically, there's a fine line, but, you know, I have never, sort of, I have when I watch porn it feels angry and it feels it doesn't feel good it doesn't make me feel good it might be arousing but it's not Did

00:18:41.000 --> 00:18:58.000
doesn't feel nice and One of the things that you talked about when we were talking about what we're gonna discuss was talking about pleasure and I'd love to know what you you know, like I don't want you to give all your secrets away, but what do you, what do you tend to, you know, tell your clients when you, when you meet a typical client, let's make them a fat client.

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please. Let's make them a fat woman. They can be a trans, and a fat woman comes to see you.

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And is, you know, having some issues around sex, like what are the common things you see and what are the common things you say to them and how do they how do you get them?

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To get back into touch with pleasure.

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I mean, I think, You know, first of all, everybody is different and you will see all kinds of weird things.

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It's really easy to generalize, but as a therapist I tend to come at thanks for a very individual perspective.

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Hmm.

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But if I'm gonna imagine like a typical fat woman client who comes in, it's often somebody who has been in a relationship for a long time that's not going great as far as the sexual part.

00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:45.000
Hmm.

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Oftentimes we'll see in heterosexual relationships a guy being like, I don't find you attractive anymore because you've gained wheat, in which case.

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You have to try not to murder the other client, but yeah. I have some counter transference issues.

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Yeah. Okay.

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And honestly, like I will often, if these situations are too intense and what's fat trauma for me.

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I have a lot of fat clinicians in my practice and then I will refer to and I will sometimes refer them out if it's like too hot for me to touch.

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Hmm.

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But I, you know, if I was working with a woman in the situation as an individual, we'd be talking about masturbation.

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We'd be talking about like what social media and media is she engaging in? Is she seeing models of of fat sexuality.

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Is she seeing situations where people like her are the ones who get the partner? And get to have their really good sex.

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As opposed to like, you know, the sort of sidekick or the one who is getting, you know, it's there to make these in person look cool.

00:20:53.000 --> 00:21:01.000
So, and then we want to really start with. Embodiment exercises and we start with First breathing.

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You know, sort of just taking some deep breaths and getting into the body and starting with very late, you know, touch.

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Touching herself. We're not going to involve a partner for quite some time. We're gonna, we're gonna be thinking about not just touch on.

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The places that we think of as sexual like not just the the Nelson the genitals like we're going to start with the arms we're gonna start with the legs like we're gonna look at like going and getting a that's like not like a deep tissue like get all of the pain out kind of thing but like starting with light pleasurable touch and and masturbation and eating for pleasure sometimes we'll

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have people do like exercises in session where we have them like slowly go into a mindfulness place and then eat something delicious.

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Like chocolate. So that like. Yeah.

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This is all sounding so good. It's massage and chocolate. Literally, you take 2 of my boxes already.

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Nice.

00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:04.000
Yeah.

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Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, my brain. Like in which you try not to get flirtatious with the podcast house.

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Okay.

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Oh, come on, like I flirt away. I'm here for all the flashing, please.

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Yeah. Okay.

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I think this is this is something that, I, I'm always trying to tell myself not to do, stop being so flirtatious. I'm a flat by nature.

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If I want to fly, I will and if you want to flow it with me, I can pay for it.

00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:27.000
Carry on. When you going to say something about chocolate and Yes.

00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:37.000
Anyway, yeah, I think you're super hot. But moving on. Yes, chocolate and massage and which is certainly not how I pronounce that and ticking bosses.

00:22:37.000 --> 00:22:38.000
Yes. Yes, whatever makes you feel good.

00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:52.000
My Yeah. We got we got distracted. This is but this is really helpful because I think there are a lot of people who I mean listen I don't know what it's like in in the States, but in the UK to find a sex therapist is hard in of itself.

00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:58.000
It's that we don't have that many. Which is a crane shame. And I think everybody needs a sex therapist.

00:22:58.000 --> 00:23:02.000
So. Because I think we've all been, like you said, told, hold the wrong shit.

00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:04.000
And so we all have issues and masses of baggage and we don't get it and we never talk about it.

00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:16.000
I'm like. Mental note, need to not ask the question about masturbation. We'll come shortly after this Oh dear, the puns are going to start now.

00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:17.000
Oh yes. Coming soon.

00:23:17.000 --> 00:23:22.000
Right in and right in. But. Oh no. Oh dear.

00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:29.000
Okay. It's late in the evening as well for me, so my brain is already. Just going in very interesting directions.

00:23:29.000 --> 00:23:30.000
But so if you can't, if you can't have access to a, a therapist and I hate he, if of course very individual.

00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:45.000
But if we, if you're somebody who's listening right now who's thinking, okay, I'm really struggle like the idea of pleasure during sex.

00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:51.000
Is quite difficult to kind of get around. It's not something I've experienced in a really long time.

00:23:51.000 --> 00:24:02.000
I love what you were saying about all the different stages. So are there other things apart from like, like tart, you mentioned chocolate and pleasure and eating, other other things that people can do.

00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:04.000
So son's partner.

00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:18.000
So yeah, breath work is a hundred percent a thing. I also think like I know it's hard to access a sex therapist in the UK because therapy is part of the NHS and sex therapy is I'm almost certain not part of the NHS.

00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:19.000
Not. Correct.

00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:29.000
In the US there's a decent number of sex therapists and it is growing and people like me like I do supervision for sex therapy.

00:24:29.000 --> 00:24:30.000
Amazing.

00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:37.000
So I'm training a whole new generation of sex therapists as well. But if you want to work with somebody and you can't find a sex therapist, there are coaches and I don't trust all of the coaches.

00:24:37.000 --> 00:24:40.000
Some coaches have no training, some coaches are coming from pretty predatory tantra environments, but there are some people that I trust.

00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:52.000
So first of all, I have a woman in my practice, Janelle and Fisher, who is a coach who works in embodiment.

00:24:52.000 --> 00:25:06.000
She's had Not only all of the training on Tantra, she's also done Literally multiple times because she used to work as the admin for a sex therapy institute.

00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:07.000
Amazing.

00:25:07.000 --> 00:25:14.000
She's taken all the classes like Over and over again. So she has all of the information, but she's not a license therapist so she can practice anywhere in the world.

00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:28.000
So she's a good person to go to. Also anybody who's certified by urban tantra, like I've been through that program.

00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:29.000
Right.

00:25:29.000 --> 00:25:36.000
Barbara Correllis does an amazing job of sitting people down and really talking about professional ethics, which most people who work in the sexuality fields, like a lot of those places are really problematic.

00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:37.000
Right.

00:25:37.000 --> 00:25:48.000
And tempted to call them all out, but I don't because I don't want to I'm not going to open some cans of worms but I would just say start with urban tantra because they are thinking about professional ethics.

00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:53.000
That's amazing. Thank you. Can we talk about masturbation for a moment?

00:25:53.000 --> 00:25:54.000
As long as you'd like.

00:25:54.000 --> 00:26:01.000
A lot, so. A lot of, I mean. I'm hoping we've got to the stage in life.

00:26:01.000 --> 00:26:06.000
Where we don't think it's a bad thing. I mean, when I was growing up, it was totally a tabby thing.

00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:11.000
I'm sure my kids don't think that. And I hope my kids kids don't think that either.

00:26:11.000 --> 00:26:15.000
But when I was researching, Sort of medical fat, medical weight stigma.

00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:32.000
I came across a whole bunch of doctors. Don Harvey Kellogg is one of the main ones, but anyone involved in the temperance movement and doctors involved in the temperance movement and eugenics etc. They had a real thing about like it was food and masturbation.

00:26:32.000 --> 00:26:39.000
The 2 were very much linked together. So John Harvey Kellogg and Battle Creek Sanatorium and all of that stuff it was you didn't eat meat.

00:26:39.000 --> 00:26:46.000
And and you exercised and you took long walks and you did not. Masterbeat. But it's good for you, right?

00:26:46.000 --> 00:26:47.000
Right.

00:26:47.000 --> 00:26:50.000
Like, I mean, I,

00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:51.000
It is good for you. It makes you feel good. It releases all of the pleasure hormones.

00:26:51.000 --> 00:27:04.000
Particularly for people who have kinases. It's helpful as far as avoiding problems with prostates.

00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:17.000
And one of the things, this is not really what you asked for bring and put it out there. So, for ASAP people, often you're looking for clitoral stimulation, but oftentimes people are also into penetration and that can be hard to access if you are a super fat person.

00:27:17.000 --> 00:27:18.000
Yes. Yes.

00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:39.000
So, and sometimes it can be really daunting to like go into a sex toy store, but there are long handled wand vibrators like the Hetashi Magic Wand is like sort of the classic but I find that there's others that are sort of built differently that actually even can get more clitorial pressure at a long distance.

00:27:39.000 --> 00:27:47.000
So like a percussion massage, like I used the percussion massage dolphin, which is like 20 bucks on Amazon.

00:27:47.000 --> 00:27:48.000
Really?

00:27:48.000 --> 00:28:01.000
But Yeah, but it's sort of weighted so it sort of. It sort of curves around in a way that like hits directly on the plate and it's not like you have to sort of push it hard into yourself because it's like a straight line.

00:28:01.000 --> 00:28:25.000
So, so I think that can be really helpful. And then they also have like, handles that are like for penetration toys so you could if you have something that has like a vacuum like thing on the bottom they have a bunch of sort of interchangeable like sex toys like so basically you can put like a cock of any size like on a handle or you can put it into something that that is sort of like

00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:35.000
a ride on toy if you're more of a top for penetration. So there's a lot of things you can do as far as masterurbation to help with accessibility.

00:28:35.000 --> 00:28:42.000
And then there's also sleeves that you can use it a greater distance if you're a person with a penis.

00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:44.000
So yeah, lots of things.

00:28:44.000 --> 00:29:06.000
So I'm still stuck on the fact that a licensed sex therapist told me that at $2020 like sex toy like you know I have always been told the more you spend the better the quality they are and like that's not been my experience my favorite one was the cheapest one I ever owned and then it eventually broke but it took a really long time to break and then I can like I found the exact replacement

00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:09.000
and been going ever since. Like amazing.

00:29:09.000 --> 00:29:12.000
I mean, I think one of the concerns like, so a lot of the less expensive insertables are made from plastics that will degrade inside you.

00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:24.000
So, but that's it. I mean, often those are the softest plastics.

00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:25.000
Right. Very small.

00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:38.000
So I just put a condom on them. So problem solved. I mean, if it's gonna hurt you like chemically by going inside you then for God's sake, I mean, if it's gonna hurt you like chemically by going inside you, then for God's sake, don't make it touch you, but like you like chemically by going inside you, then for God's sakes, don't make it touch you. But like, you do that with penises. Why not with toys?

00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:45.000
And for me, I have this is how I roll like I always have a lot of expired condoms around because I buy tons of them for like if I'm gonna be dating new people or I'm gonna be experimenting.

00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:54.000
And then like once they go past the date, like I don't want to use them with a person, but like the toy, it's gonna be just fine.

00:29:54.000 --> 00:29:56.000
Yeah, still safe. Yeah, absolutely.

00:29:56.000 --> 00:30:04.000
I mean, and then, yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:05.000
Okay.

00:30:05.000 --> 00:30:08.000
This is, this is actually really like very helpful advice. I'm suddenly thinking, I know I've got some expired content somewhere and then now I know what to do with them.

00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:16.000
Cause I always just throw in the way, which is such a shame. Okay, so. So that's what's really useful to know.

00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:30.000
What about when we actually having sex? For most people with a clitoris, we know that to orgasm to climax from from penetration is unusual and actually the vast majority of people don't.

00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:31.000
Is that correct?

00:30:31.000 --> 00:30:32.000
That is correct, yes.

00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:38.000
Yes. So When you are having sex, especially if you're having penetrative sex.

00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:44.000
And you're a fat person, like, are there things that you can do? Are there?

00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:54.000
You know, basically I'm talking about the logistics because I think it is harder sometimes and it's harder as a fat person to ask and say actually what I really need is like.

00:30:54.000 --> 00:31:05.000
Cushion or something so that I can experience pleasure during this activity but as a fat person I'm just like well you know I'm lucky to be having sex so I'll just not experience pleasure.

00:31:05.000 --> 00:31:11.000
That that's been my experience. I wonder like accommodations for FAT sex? Is this such a thing?

00:31:11.000 --> 00:31:35.000
I mean, absolutely combinations for fat. Like, so as far as like clitoral stimulation during sex.

00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:36.000
Oh.

00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:40.000
Like there are absolutely vibrators that you can sort of put a little bit on the inside and some on the outside they're like they're like a you shape that that can go on your clip and then there's also like what I have one that's chief like a sting ray that you can sort of use on your clip while somebody is fucking you and then if you want to use the dolphin like

00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:53.000
it's it's sort of bigger so it's a little clunky to get in between you, but if you are on top of it and then somebody's fucking you for from behind, particularly if you have a positioner thing and this brings me to positioner things.

00:31:53.000 --> 00:31:54.000
Okay.

00:31:54.000 --> 00:32:01.000
So, so there are yoga bolsters that you can sort of put your butt on a yoga bolster so your butt is sort of more in the air so that changes the angle for penetration.

00:32:01.000 --> 00:32:09.000
And can give you more space like if you are a person with a big belly and you're having sex with a person with a big belly, sometimes you want to be at like a bigger angle so that the bellies are not rubbing together too hard.

00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:22.000
And then there's also like triangle shaped pillows that you can literally like stick a toy in that you can ride the pillow and then somebody can sort of come up behind you.

00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:31.000
Or those red shaped pillows you can also use similarly to the bolsters though I've never done that I don't know why.

00:32:31.000 --> 00:32:36.000
Probably because the web shaped ones all belong to one particular partner of mine who is a fat person and a fat enthusiast and has more sex toys than you've ever seen.

00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:46.000
Like more than I've seen in any store. This dude is stopped. Like more than I've seen in any store.

00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:53.000
This dude is stopped. The

00:32:53.000 --> 00:32:54.000
Okay. Yeah

00:32:54.000 --> 00:33:04.000
That's amazing. If you're gonna spend money, yeah, I'm imagine, you know how like the gun enthusiasts when they have like all those guns and they like all like on like on display like all hung up I'm imagining that now I want to know that it looks like that are they all in a box or they like on display?

00:33:04.000 --> 00:33:17.000
Oh.

00:33:17.000 --> 00:33:18.000
That's no, no, no good.

00:33:18.000 --> 00:33:22.000
Yeah. Oh my god, they're everywhere. He's not particularly organized. Sometimes I'm like You need somebody to come in and organize because like sometimes go over there and like plan a scene and I'll have to like search around okay like where is this toy where is that toy where the pillows like where's the clean squirt mat because you need a clean squirt mat like that's our thing

00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:24.000
if you per person whose words and oftentimes yeah They're like, they're like a water.

00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:29.000
Okay. What are they like? What do they like? Are they like disposable or?

00:33:29.000 --> 00:33:40.000
No, well, they have disposable ones, but I find that there's like a paper top on the disposable ones like like turn like crusty and then you have like, you know, like little bits of paper in your junk.

00:33:40.000 --> 00:34:10.000
But you can get reusable, squirt mats. So, Liberator has like the Liberator throw and then they also have like larger liberator waterproof blankets and then some other places also do waterproof blankets down because people have discovered this is a thing.

00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:12.000
Yeah.

00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:21.000
But it's really great also because I think one of the things With women sexualities that often will hold back because we're scared that we might squirt and we'll scared things that are going to get too juice too juicy and it's gonna grow somebody out and then sometimes dudes I think in my experience only dudes, but maybe women do this get get like, you know, sort of like weirded out

00:34:21.000 --> 00:34:28.000
by the squad and they're like, is it P? Is it not he? It's P mixed with other things, but who cares?

00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:32.000
It's fun. It means that somebody had a really pleasurable experience. So dig into that.

00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:33.000
Right.

00:34:33.000 --> 00:34:39.000
And if you have something down, like you won't get your, you don't have to worry about changing your sheets.

00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:44.000
You don't have to worry about like getting through the towel. Like you're set.

00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:51.000
That's amazing, that's such a good idea. Like, so these are like, it's basically like a waterproof kind of sheet like that you can lay down.

00:34:51.000 --> 00:34:54.000
Yeah, but they're usually, so they're very soft. They feel really nice to lay on.

00:34:54.000 --> 00:34:59.000
Oh. Nice. Yeah, cause you don't want it to be too clinical.

00:34:59.000 --> 00:35:05.000
I feel like I feel like we're done. I'm gonna have to send you like a shopping list.

00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:06.000
Okay.

00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:12.000
Yeah, like a yeah, I love that. But then like I'm going to spend a lot of money and like, you know, I'll have to limit myself like 2 things a month, you know, so otherwise and I'm gonna like aim to become a collector.

00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:13.000
Yeah.

00:35:13.000 --> 00:35:17.000
I love this. I love the idea of being a sex toy collector. That It should be, that's now.

00:35:17.000 --> 00:35:25.000
Yeah, well I feel like I feel like it's not I don't think it's necessarily worth doing because I think a lot of his toys he doesn't end up using.

00:35:25.000 --> 00:35:26.000
Mike.

00:35:26.000 --> 00:35:32.000
So I feel like what you need to do is get him on here and he'll tell you which Good and worth dying.

00:35:32.000 --> 00:35:42.000
You Yeah. Yeah.

00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:43.000
Yeah. Yeah.

00:35:43.000 --> 00:35:46.000
That's so then you become the expert right like the Yeah, what I'm trying to think like the critic no not the quid the one who like yeah does all the reviews That's a sex tour. We'll just have a Sex Twin Review episode.

00:35:46.000 --> 00:35:47.000
Yeah.

00:35:47.000 --> 00:35:54.000
Brain idea. For the future. Put a PIN in it. So there are accommodations that we can make and you know, I was thinking about pillows and stuff.

00:35:54.000 --> 00:36:08.000
And people shouldn't be ashamed. This is the thing. It's feels so shameful to say I need accommodations during sex in order to experience pleasure I am going to need you to do this this and this.

00:36:08.000 --> 00:36:09.000
To me, even as I said now, and I'm a sex positive person, he was a sex positive partner and had been involved in kicking.

00:36:09.000 --> 00:36:25.000
It's not, shouldn't be a big thing for me and yet still even as I'm saying it feels a bit difficult to say I'm actually going to need you and as my body is changing I'm finding it harder and harder.

00:36:25.000 --> 00:36:28.000
Yeah, to ask for that. So. Go on, what are you gonna say?

00:36:28.000 --> 00:36:35.000
So I think, yeah, I mean, I think it's scary. So I think the first thing to do is have this conversation with a partner.

00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:36.000
Outside of the bedroom and outside of sexy times. Like you you don't want to be like you're laying on the bed.

00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:46.000
Well, and this is the thing that happens to me all the time. You're laying on the bed and you're like, fuck, I need this squirt hat.

00:36:46.000 --> 00:36:47.000
Yeah.

00:36:47.000 --> 00:36:48.000
You have to get up and read across the room. You don't you don't want to do that.

00:36:48.000 --> 00:36:55.000
You want to like go in with like we're gonna like let's try this bolster tonight and like let's try a different position and have you consider bondage like this so it doesn't hurt.

00:36:55.000 --> 00:37:08.000
You know, and I think the other thing is that Not only do thin people need these things and have these things, but they feel comfortable asking for them.

00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:24.000
And, and like I, I just have this image in my head of Dan Savage saying like you, you better believe that if a guy needed like a kayak and skis and all sorts of weird things in his room to be sexually pleased like they would be there, you know, like, like, you know, just.

00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:28.000
Let's see.

00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:34.000
I feel like this is where we need to approach sexuality with the confidence of a mediocre white guy.

00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:35.000
Yes.

00:37:35.000 --> 00:37:42.000
Unfortunately, I feel like even mediocre white guys struggle in this area. So with the confidence of somebody who actually has confidence.

00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:43.000
Yeah.

00:37:43.000 --> 00:37:48.000
Right. This is so true. Because it is, it's, it is the area where I think a lot of us are struggling.

00:37:48.000 --> 00:37:49.000
Hmm.

00:37:49.000 --> 00:37:59.000
I mean, I think I've had conversations with all sorts of friends like. Different sexualities different like you know in different spaces and I'm yet to find someone who's just like, yeah, my sixth life is on.

00:37:59.000 --> 00:38:05.000
Points. You know, I think it's it's difficult because it's so difficult to ask and it can go on for years.

00:38:05.000 --> 00:38:17.000
This is the other thing I want to tell people what are the things that I experience and I'm sure you're the same is that people can be going through this for decades and do nothing about it so don't feel like just happening to me.

00:38:17.000 --> 00:38:21.000
No, it's happening to a lot of people and actually it could be going on for a really long time.

00:38:21.000 --> 00:38:25.000
It takes a lot of guts to reach out to someone like you and say, actually, we want some help with this.

00:38:25.000 --> 00:38:26.000
I love that there are people out there.

00:38:26.000 --> 00:38:33.000
Yeah, certainly. I've certainly seen people where they've been having sexual problems in the relationship for 2030, 40 years like.

00:38:33.000 --> 00:38:34.000
Hmm.

00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:46.000
You know, been together forever, never had good sex. So like, but there's always time to come back to it and try to find it and it may be that somebody's asexual, it may be that somebody like.

00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:56.000
Is into a gender of person they're not in a relationship with like there are things that are like you're gonna have to go outside your relationship to solve it but you're never gonna figure it out if you don't let yourself look at it.

00:38:56.000 --> 00:38:57.000
Nice.

00:38:57.000 --> 00:39:06.000
And I also think. One of the things that makes me crazy is people tend to come in, they come in, it's been 20 years since they've talked about their sexuality, and it's been a mess.

00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:15.000
And then they want me to be fixed right now. And like I cannot undo like 20 years of damage.

00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:30.000
Right now. It's gonna take time, it's gonna be slow, you're gonna have to unlearn all of these patterns, you're gonna have to unlearn the avoidance, and you're gonna have to really devote time, not just therapy time, but like you're gonna have to spend time.

00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:34.000
In bed exploring you're gonna have some have to spend time you know getting comfortable with your body again getting comfortable with bodyly changes.

00:39:34.000 --> 00:39:51.000
I mean, because over the course of that 20 years, chances are your body has changed. And a lot of us have developed various disabilities and we need to learn what good sexuality looks like with that.

00:39:51.000 --> 00:39:52.000
Right.

00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:58.000
But also, like, we've also been told that older people, you know, are not sexual or not attractive.

00:39:58.000 --> 00:40:06.000
That is not true. People are into sex until the end of their lives. They might not get a heart on, but that doesn't mean that they're not enjoying sex.

00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:07.000
Yeah.

00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:18.000
And orgasm. And, and I also think there's this other thing about like having sex and orgasm at the same time as a partner like for flux sake take turns like like you take it does not.

00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:22.000
Right. Thank you for saying that.

00:40:22.000 --> 00:40:35.000
Have to happen at the same time and maybe it shouldn't. And like, and I want to go back to like the thing you were saying about like during sex and like trying to get clitoral stimulation during sex and like yes that is a great thing to it also.

00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:46.000
After it's like you've had sex and your partner has come and you have not and you have a clitoris like Please do something to get off and your partner should fucking help.

00:40:46.000 --> 00:40:47.000
Right.

00:40:47.000 --> 00:40:53.000
And I'm sorry, but like having had an orgasm doesn't mean you immediately have to roll over and go to sleep.

00:40:53.000 --> 00:40:56.000
Like you immediately have to roll over and go to sleep. Like, you could go down on your partner, use toys on your partner.

00:40:56.000 --> 00:41:02.000
Experiment with 50. Never even thought of. Like.

00:41:02.000 --> 00:41:07.000
You, that's so true. And, and. To all the women or people who are socially conditioned is living because as the trans mask I can tell you this is also an issue for us.

00:41:07.000 --> 00:41:23.000
IA hundred percent agree like Please, there is. Yeah, It's just going to be, I'm going to get into a rant about patriarchy in a moment. I don't want to do that.

00:41:23.000 --> 00:41:29.000
I'm trying to avoid that. I wanted to ask you a question about, polyamory.

00:41:29.000 --> 00:41:36.000
I wanted to ask you a question about King. Because these are 2 things that I think again people are not so comfortable talking about.

00:41:36.000 --> 00:41:47.000
In terms of and I like the idea of ethical nominal. I think that there are issues. I have met some people who are polyamorous and I'm like.

00:41:47.000 --> 00:41:51.000
You know that that this doesn't feel great to me in the way that certain partners are treating other partners.

00:41:51.000 --> 00:42:09.000
But those of us who all those those within the community who doing it ethically like can you tell us about polyamory or someone who is openly polyamorous and you're quite comfortable talking about it so there will be people who are like, poly what?

00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:17.000
Yeah, so polymery is when you have the ability to be a more than one romantic relationship with the agreement of everybody involved where it's okay to not only have sex with multiple people, but have relationships with them and really go deep.

00:42:17.000 --> 00:42:28.000
So it's more than just all kinds of ethical nominee. It's more than just swinging.

00:42:28.000 --> 00:42:32.000
It's like you can fall in love and that'd be okay. And you might not fall in love.

00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:39.000
You might just hook up tonight and that's okay too. So like being able to have space for multiple relationships.

00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:52.000
It's the thing that I have been actively doing this time since, 2,011 when I opened my marriage with my future ex-husband who I was with for 20 years and we generally gone along.

00:42:52.000 --> 00:43:01.000
We, we only broke up because he didn't get a job. But I lived with him and his girlfriend and all of our kids for 8 years.

00:43:01.000 --> 00:43:07.000
Pretty darn well, actually. And

00:43:07.000 --> 00:43:20.000
I mean, I think there are a lot of times where people do it badly. I think oftentimes people will come into polyamory as like we're a married couple and we want to have a relationship with the third person where that third person doesn't really have any rights.

00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:21.000
Yeah.

00:43:21.000 --> 00:43:34.000
So that's a problem. And that's certainly a thing that we see in our practice and try to work with to sort of get to like what does actual ethical polymery look like?

00:43:34.000 --> 00:43:35.000
Hmm.

00:43:35.000 --> 00:43:45.000
How do we make sure that everybody has as a voice and as part of decision-making and that there needs are being listened to and they're not just being seen as like an extension of a existing relationship or as a toy.

00:43:45.000 --> 00:43:47.000
But. It can work very well. It works well for people like me who fall in love a lot.

00:43:47.000 --> 00:43:59.000
So the first time I fell in love with 2 or I mean you could say one of them was a crash but like I started having deep emotional feelings for multiple people like in high school.

00:43:59.000 --> 00:44:16.000
And so like was it in a position of being like, okay, so I have this boyfriend and I have this girl I have a huge crush on and the prom is coming and I have this girl I have a huge crush on and the prom is coming you know what are you going to do I got to dance with her.

00:44:16.000 --> 00:44:17.000
But yeah.

00:44:17.000 --> 00:44:21.000
I was going to say what like did you all go together? No, there's not a like

00:44:21.000 --> 00:44:26.000
No, no, well, yeah, well, I, I don't even know. I was too scared to really tell her how I felt.

00:44:26.000 --> 00:44:30.000
So I did ask her to dance. So we had like one nice romantic dance, but that was really it.

00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:41.000
Like I never got to like kiss her anything. I don't think I even told her I had a crush on her until like a year ago because Facebook allows you to get back in touch with these people.

00:44:41.000 --> 00:44:42.000
Yeah.

00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:50.000
And I don't think she had any clue, but, but that happened and then I being me selected my college based on where I could hook up with women.

00:44:50.000 --> 00:44:51.000
Nice.

00:44:51.000 --> 00:44:53.000
So I went to Smith, which is an all women's college in the US, known for its lesbianism.

00:44:53.000 --> 00:45:05.000
So went there and was having a multiple relationships while I was there. And then I tried to be normal for a little while and I married a nice Jewish boy.

00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:10.000
Was set up by his mother and a friend of ours who I knew through working at the Jewish community center.

00:45:10.000 --> 00:45:19.000
And then that's really it turns out that I'm still a polymer person. So went from there.

00:45:19.000 --> 00:45:23.000
Oh, you just couldn't like fix that with a nice Jewish boy. Not.

00:45:23.000 --> 00:45:28.000
I could not. I could. I tried. So yeah, so we raised our kids with that.

00:45:28.000 --> 00:45:29.000
Oh yeah.

00:45:29.000 --> 00:45:37.000
That's like my But kids are like that's just their normal. My son has more game than any of us.

00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:42.000
It's impressive. Yeah.

00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:43.000
He's 88. Yes, he's 18.

00:45:43.000 --> 00:45:47.000
But to be point, to be fair, your son is of age, is not like. Yes, I just wanted to make that very clear to people who are listening.

00:45:47.000 --> 00:45:48.000
It's not like 5. Yeah, yeah, no.

00:45:48.000 --> 00:45:55.000
You might be like, whoa. Yeah, okay. So that's amazing. What was I think we were gonna talk about?

00:45:55.000 --> 00:45:56.000
BDS, yeah.

00:45:56.000 --> 00:46:03.000
I wanted to talk a little bit about King. Yeah, so, I had the pleasure of being involved with an organization called Tashra.

00:46:03.000 --> 00:46:24.000
And doing some training on weight stigma specifically for them. And my favorite pulp was talking about like stuff and having like we were we had these great conversations about again, accommodations for people like if you're really into rope play or if you're really into being tied up bondage if that's your thing.

00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:27.000
It can be harder if you're a fat person. Right? But, but there are some amazing people out there who are just like, this is our thing.

00:46:27.000 --> 00:46:43.000
We, we are fat people who like kind knots and and actually there were some really amazing things that you can do but I lot people I think are afraid to explore kink.

00:46:43.000 --> 00:46:55.000
A, maybe because of the porn thing, because it looks quite scary and B, because the way we see Kink being portrayed is a whole bunch of thin people, especially because we know in the King community.

00:46:55.000 --> 00:47:09.000
Clothing is optional and you know and and then there's all the kind of And if that is where that people kind of associate, you know, like, or any, anything that's kind of latex doesn't necessarily fit around my body.

00:47:09.000 --> 00:47:15.000
I'm hoping that your experience of cake is very different to that. Please tell me it is. Otherwise we'll have to edit.

00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:19.000
Yeah, no, I mean, I've been involved with the King community. Since 1997.

00:47:19.000 --> 00:47:29.000
I've always been a fat person. I have found king spaces to be very accepting of different body is.

00:47:29.000 --> 00:47:41.000
Though to be fair they don't necessarily always know what to do with us. So like as far as like if you're like doing rope is not that much more complicated on a fat person like you need more rope.

00:47:41.000 --> 00:47:45.000
But it's not that much more complicated. But like for suspension, you want to be thinking more about like what.

00:47:45.000 --> 00:47:47.000
Yes.

00:47:47.000 --> 00:47:54.000
What joins are you putting stress on and what are you gonna do? Somebody passes out. Of a cousin who always passes out.

00:47:54.000 --> 00:48:06.000
So those kinds of things you have to be thinking about safety all the time. One of the big differences between kink as its portrayed in porn and kink in real life is the negotiation.

00:48:06.000 --> 00:48:07.000
Yes.

00:48:07.000 --> 00:48:12.000
So like in the K community. Negotiation is just a really big part of what we do.

00:48:12.000 --> 00:48:19.000
We do workshops on negotiation. You can find like we my work is in a workshop on BDS I'm negotiation.

00:48:19.000 --> 00:48:26.000
You want to be sitting down and having a conversation. What is OK? What is not OK? What are your boundaries?

00:48:26.000 --> 00:48:34.000
And I also think there's this other piece that we really need to be thinking about with Fatness about What is the intent?

00:48:34.000 --> 00:48:42.000
Here. Like if we're going to do something kinky and we're gonna engage with fatness, like is humiliation play okay or not?

00:48:42.000 --> 00:48:43.000
Yeah.

00:48:43.000 --> 00:49:02.000
There are some people who are fat who part of their working through their fitness is being humiliated for their fatness or like playing into fat trips that is not my cake if somebody calls me fat in bed I am getting the fuck out of there and I'm a person who self identifies as fat but if you're calling me fat while you're fucking me weirdly I'm not into it.

00:49:02.000 --> 00:49:17.000
So like you want to have a conversation about not only like what works physically and doesn't work physically but also what works emotionally and what works like what are the things that you say that are sexy and what are the things that are not okay to say to you.

00:49:17.000 --> 00:49:24.000
Hmm. Which is why I feel like this is a really great weight. This is the great kind of like.

00:49:24.000 --> 00:49:36.000
Conclusion which is why I think the King space is so great because like you said Genuine King is actually talking about sex, which is the thing that most of us don't do.

00:49:36.000 --> 00:49:49.000
If when you know outside of king most of us don't sit down with our partners multiple or single and go Can we talk about the things that I like doing, the things that give me pleasure, the things that don't give you pleasure, things like definitely don't want you to do the things that are hard.

00:49:49.000 --> 00:49:56.000
Absolute limits, no way, know how. Things that I'm like. I'm not sure yet if the mutate.

00:49:56.000 --> 00:50:06.000
We don't sit down and talk about these things. Wishes a crying fucking shame because I'm, well, again, I'm paying with you your mouth, but I'm guessing communication is a really important part of sex.

00:50:06.000 --> 00:50:21.000
For everybody.

00:50:21.000 --> 00:50:22.000
Yeah.

00:50:22.000 --> 00:50:29.000
It's a really important part of sex and when you said that thing about talking about the things that you're like okay to do the things that are maybe the things that are hell note like there's whole list they're called yes or maybe list they're bunch of different ones where you can like sit down with a partner and be like okay here like I'm gonna check off like yes I'm into this no I'm not

00:50:29.000 --> 00:50:36.000
into that like maybe I could do that. It like all of those things really need to be negotiated and not just in king relationships but in all relationships.

00:50:36.000 --> 00:50:37.000
Right.

00:50:37.000 --> 00:50:44.000
Like I think the king community will really teach you how to talk about sex. Born will not teach you how to talk about sex.

00:50:44.000 --> 00:50:56.000
They just do it. They don't, they don't teach you how to prep for sex either.

00:50:56.000 --> 00:50:57.000
Yeah.

00:50:57.000 --> 00:51:04.000
That's that's there's the other element where you're just like that doesn't slide in that easily in real life peeps they've been doing that easily in real life peeps they've been doing some preparation off camera that you didn't see which i think can be very very surprising for people especially young people who but perhaps that's a different story for a different

00:51:04.000 --> 00:51:12.000
day. This has been amazing. I'm trying to think like how we can end it.

00:51:12.000 --> 00:51:13.000
Yeah.

00:51:13.000 --> 00:51:31.000
I mean, I think. I don't know. I just hope that all of you out there like Listen to this and think about how you can find your own pleasure and how you can talk about pleasure for you and sex for you and maybe not sex for you if you're asexual.

00:51:31.000 --> 00:51:36.000
There's a lot of those but how can how can you bring joy into your life?

00:51:36.000 --> 00:51:47.000
Yes. And thank you, bringing up Asexuality, cause they're just people out there that really aren't into this shit and and actually like again that's great good for you like there's nothing to be ashamed of here.

00:51:47.000 --> 00:52:03.000
You have been amazing and I just think But for a lot of people. They will have just been like, wow, that was a lot of and and that's really good and it's really good sometimes I think to hear 2 people talking about sex in a way that's kind of like this is not weird This is not, this is nothing to be ashamed of.

00:52:03.000 --> 00:52:11.000
Just we're just talking, we're just using words to describe things. Where can people find you?

00:52:11.000 --> 00:52:20.000
Because you are amazing. And as you said, like you are only licensed in the US or just in this in your one state or can you do you can you work throughout the US?

00:52:20.000 --> 00:52:34.000
So I can work in DC, Maryland and Virginia and Virginia is signed the social work compact. So whenever they work through administrator shit, then I'll be able to work in any state that it participates with the compact.

00:52:34.000 --> 00:52:42.000
But if people in my practice who I work with who are really good who can work anywhere in the world, I did that on purpose.

00:52:42.000 --> 00:52:49.000
You can find us@tamarapinkis.com. That's the easiest way to go.

00:52:49.000 --> 00:52:50.000
Yeah.

00:52:50.000 --> 00:52:54.000
I'm gonna adopt one thing that I do, I'm terrible at all that stuff, but I do link it in the show notes.

00:52:54.000 --> 00:53:03.000
People will be in there and my show, it's not very long. So you can find the link very easily and I really Like, okay, my friend first.

00:53:03.000 --> 00:53:06.000
Get in line just because you heard her on this podcast if you've never heard of her before.

00:53:06.000 --> 00:53:08.000
Yeah.

00:53:08.000 --> 00:53:27.000
That's great. But I found her first. So like, don't forget that. You can stand behind me in line but I strongly recommend that you're following and that you're engaging and that because honestly tomorrow will be joy to your life and the has brought great joy to my life and also let's go back to the beginning.

00:53:27.000 --> 00:53:36.000
Told me that rhinos were fat unicorns. I have not forgotten that. That was like something that I needed in that moment and has changed my life.

00:53:36.000 --> 00:53:41.000
So I cannot recommend you enough. I have love this conversation. I really want feedback. I would really like people.

00:53:41.000 --> 00:53:43.000
If you're listening right now, occasionally some of you will email me and be like, oh, I just listen to my house because it was really good.

00:53:43.000 --> 00:53:56.000
I'd love to hear your feedback about this one and should we do some more? Like, do we need to persuade tomorrow to come back and do another one and answer some other questions?

00:53:56.000 --> 00:53:58.000
Thank you so much for being here. And and folks next week. I have actually recorded something next week.

00:53:58.000 --> 00:54:08.000
So there is definitely something after that. And then there'll be another thing after that and you know how it works.

00:54:08.000 --> 00:54:14.000
See you all next time.