028 - Circuit Breakers and Calming Techniques: Mastering Self-Control - With Torrin Minutillo

A Seasoned Business Veteran, Proven Under Fire 

Torrin’s 34-year business journey started in a time before mobile phones and internet instant communication. 
This journey was riddled with many highs and lows in the first 20 years before he cracked the code and now enjoys a business life that seemed impossible at one point.

The turning point was driven by getting a deep understanding of the human experience and applying it to the business experience.

That real life education has prepared him well for what he is passionate about doing now…that is helping other business owners on their journey to conquer their dreams.

Empowering Achievement with Courage.

IDEA - the International De-Escalation Association, is dedicated to Saving Lives, Reputations, & Relationships through Conflict De-Escalation & Communication Training for Teachers, Parents, and Public Safety Providers.

Find more about
How to Calm an Angry Person in 90 Seconds or Less
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https://TheIdea.World

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Transcript

Torrin Minutillo: 0:07

Courage is the one that we require when our values are tested. So when our values are tested when someone's testing you about your integrity it requires courage to push through that often when we're facing challenges in our life and we're not feeling good about where we're at whatever it is we're trying to achieve it's it's likely that one of your values is being tested which is the reason why you potentially not getting what you're looking for in your life you need to come right away there's a man with a gun and

Kerry Mensior: 0:48

getting emergency signal from the paramedics are available units will code that way. Welcome to the de escalation conversations podcast with me today is a guy that I've known for a couple of years now. Torn men Utila and torn is in Perth, Australia. And we've never met in person, like I've never had the opportunity to shake his hand. But I virtually shake his hand, almost every week, for at least an hour and sometimes more. Every time I've had a conversation with Thorin, I walk away with some new golden nugget of knowledge, or insight or way of approaching life. He's he's just been one of those hugely impactful and influential, influential people in my life. And I'm forever grateful to the universe for bringing us together, it's just been an amazing thing. And let me tell you a little bit about touring. He's a seasoned business veteran, who is completely proven under fire is a 34 year business journey that started in a time before mobile phones and before internet instant communication. And his journey was was riddled with, with many highs and lows. And just the first 20 years before he cracked the code. And he now enjoys a business life that seemed impossible at one point. And the turning point was driven by getting a deep understanding of the human experience and applying it to the business experience. And that real life adaptations. They prepared him well for what he's passionate about doing now, which is helping other business owners on their journey to conquer their dreams. And one of the things he talks about that we're going to be talking about today is empowering achievement with courage. Now, with all that said about Torin, as, as a as a man, how he shows up in this world, is one of you've heard of people who give to others. Torn is just, he's got a wheel barrel with him at all times of help, and assistance and guidance. And he's just just an amazing man. So we're really fortunate to have him here and torn. Welcome to the show.

Unknown: 3:36

Thanks, Kerry, what a fantastic introduction. And hopefully I can live up to that status.

Kerry Mensior: 3:42

You certainly can trust me on that. Now, for our listeners, we we generally, almost always have first responders, police, fire, medical services, personnel and school teachers. But we also have a lot of people in those areas who have businesses of their own or they're thinking about becoming an entrepreneur. They have, you know, firefighters that have construction side gigs and cops that start businesses of their own and school teachers that are looking for, you know, maybe an exit plan or something to do in the summer and vacation times. And I love having folks who aren't from those areas but bring knowledge and wisdom and insights from the business world and the reality is touring. What you teach isn't just for somebody running a business. So if you're thinking I'm just doing my job, I'm not doing a business I don't need to listen to this stuff from touring. Everything that torn shares, is what I call 360 knowledge it's it works in every aspect of your life. It works with your family at home. It works when you run up to the grocery store for a gallon of milk it works if you if you are doing anything business related or or check this out, folks. If you're just trying to achieve some dreams in your life, what do you want to accomplish? Where do you want to go in your life? What? What path are you on? To be truly happy and torn has has knowledge that that just helps you with all that. So torn? Thanks. You know, thanks for being with us today, thanks for taking the time. And one of the things that you have talked about there's there's a, I don't have it handy, there's a quote by CS Lewis, and he talks about courage, being one of those things that helps you get through different times when your values are tested. And, and over the, you know, since even before the pandemic shutdown occurred, and, and really values became very much focused for people during the last three to four years, and certainly in the United States, with a lot of controversy on the political ends of things and you social topics, and you know, being woke or not woke and things like that, we run up against values, conversations a lot. And when you talk about courage and empowering achievement with courage, can you share just kind of expand on that for us? And kind of give us your insights on that?

Unknown: 6:25

Yeah, well, I suppose the starting point is to understand that values are the substructure to our life. And so, values instilled in us a very young age, by our significant carers are the people that we spend the most time with as a in the first four or five years of our life, six years potentially, or, you know, I mean, that's not a fixed amount of time, because it can, depending on the circumstance, so values tend to be with you throughout your life. And they get established early and not judging on which ones are better or worse. It's just they are the ones that we use to navigate our pathway through life, as opposed to say, belief systems, which will evolve and go as depending on our situation in our life is we will shift our belief systems, which is also a way of navigating your life, but values. The way that I like to think about it is to substructure. It's nothing underneath it, everything is built up from the values. So going back to CS Lewis, and his quote around this is that we there has many different types of values, or can be described as virtues. But courage is the one that we require when our values are tested. So when our values are tested, when someone's testing you about your integrity, it requires courage to push through that. Often when we're facing challenges in our life. And we're not feeling good about where we're at whatever it is we're trying to achieve. It's it's likely that one of your values is being tested, which is the reason why you potentially not getting what you're looking for in your life. And so, for me when I'm helping people evolve, so go back a little bit, just give a bit more context is, is I put myself in the box as a business life mentor. So the life bit business, because that's my field of expertise. But it's the life mentoring, collected with the business, that is what I help people. And really what I'm doing is helping them to evolve for a better version of themselves, so they can get the best of whatever it is they're trying to achieve. That's what at the core of what I do. So courage plays a huge part in achieving anything that we want. So if you think about if anybody's listening to this, think about whatever they've achieved in their life that they felt good about, it's often required a level of courage to push through a barrier that's helped them get that result or wherever it is. And often, when they look back and go, Well, I haven't achieved something, it's potentially that they pushed up against the courage barrier, and came back and didn't push through. And so becomes a very align that when we live above the line of courage, if you want to put in that context, we tend to empower ourselves and achieve what we want. When we live below the line of courage, and we don't push up against it, it disempowers us and moves us away from what it is that we're trying to achieve. So So courage becomes quite a determining factor between what we get and what we don't get. So that's sort of an unpacking, if you like, of CS Lewis's version of this, which is that it becomes the foundational value that we require one other values have been tested.

Kerry Mensior: 9:51

Yeah, so let's talk about courage for just a minute if we can, yep, sure. I I on the on the day that I was getting officially promoted to Sergeant on the Police Department, San Diego Police Department. I was in my dress uniform, like long sleeve shirt tie. And I was just I was literally was just killing time until I went to the promotion ceremony because I was working day shift. So the promotion ceremony was toward the end of my shift. And I was just hanging out, just trying to not get involved in anything. And a call came out just a few blocks away of the building fire. And I thought, well, I'll roll over and I'll do some traffic control, you know, block a street for the firetruck. So you know. And I ended up running into a fully engulfed, burning building and rescuing three people. And somebody said to me, it was funny, I went to the promotion ceremony, I got doused with like, as I was leaving the house, the firefighters had arrived in there. Because when I got there was the first one and see nobody else was there. And I was told that there were people inside. And so the as I got the third person out, and I was kind of covering up you, the firefighter put water under the house, and it exploded through a window. And just this big stream of water came down and doused both of us. And I'm like, oh my god it is. So I went to this promotion ceremony. I stunk like smoke. And I had dried off by that point. But I don't have another dress uniform to change into. And I gotta go. So but somebody had made a remark about not being scared to run into a burning building. And they said something about, was it because you're a firefighter before you were a cop that you weren't scared about running a burning building. It wasn't I wasn't scared. I was blind, terrified. We nobody runs into a burning building not be scared if you are your frickin fool. And I think that's one of the things about courage, is it's not the absence of fear. Because I think the fear is always there, whether it's public speaking, or, you know, I think back to both of my officer involved shootings when I was on the job. I was involved in two fatal ones during my career. Both times I was I was scared then to but how how do you? How do you balance out this? I'm gonna push through and and I really liked what you said about pushing up against the courage wall. But how do you how do you balance out this fear? And when you don't go forward, because fear keeps us safe fear usually, you and I know that we did idea we talk a lot about fear and the fear response, fight flight or freeze and, and the other apps that go along with it. And this is such a complicated subject sometimes. And I want to keep it at the fourth grade level. So we can just like remember in times of stress, but you see what I'm going for unpacking that.

Unknown: 13:24

So I think that like all these, whenever I get asked a question like this, my mind immediately goes, well, let's just break it down a bit, and then build back up to make an answer rather than rather than sometimes you give an answer that I understand. But people who haven't deconstructed maybe like I have before, or you have don't quite get so you know, digging

Kerry Mensior: 13:47

for my fourth grade level, because

Unknown: 13:52

I may I may do a good job or not that it also comes back to this overarching premise is that that whatever it is you're trying to understand or achieve or move is that there's a process of deconstructing that first before you can reconstruct often what happens people make a mistake of, of, okay, I've got this issue, I'm just going to reconstruct and reconstruct them and reconstruct on top. So I guess if you're going to pull your bathroom apart and renovate it, you take it all right back down to the substructure, you deconstruct it, and then you'd build it back up. So you got a nice new bathroom, you wouldn't get to put your new tiles and the new taps and the new glassware on top of what's already there. Yeah.

Kerry Mensior: 14:31

And now, let's analogy. It's a great analogy, I think.

Unknown: 14:34

So I think when we're trying to understand anything, if we deconstruct it first, and okay, what's the bits that we don't need? Don't need to understand. And then let's layer that with the bits that we do need to understand. And that's, you know, for those who are in business, that's actually a pathway of figuring out how do I get to where I want to go next and I'll come back to your question. That is, well, let's figure out how you got to where you are now. Let's deconstruct that take all the bits that aren't useful. And then we'll layer on top and integrate with the bits that are useful to get the result that we want, as opposed to, let's just keep layering on top that we don't want, you don't have a good foundation. So therefore, we need to fix that before we worry about the next thing. So coming back to courage. I think when you deconstruct it, our nervous system is trying to keep us safe. I think everybody understands that the reason or maybe they don't, this is part of the deconstruction is that the reason fear comes up, is because that's the nervous systems job to keep us safe. So what this does is creates a negative bias in everything we're doing. And so when you're standing in front of that building, that is on fire. in milliseconds, there's an assessment going on, should I go in there? Is this too dangerous? Is this going to be safe or not. But I would say that, in that circumstance, you as a first responder have been trained to just do and go because you know, the outcome could be worse if you don't. And then you'll be you'll be held responsible, that's more of an instinctive pushing through the courage barrier, which I would see that as a physical courage requirement, as opposed to a psychological courage required to push through a thinking or something that is internally driving you mad, essentially. And you need to figure out how to push through. And often this creates a fear of what's the outcome going to be. So you start to, you start to preempt and predict because our brain is a predicting machine. And it wants to predict all the things that's going to happen going forward. And so what happens is, we tend to live in the future, which he's like, Well, this may not work out. So I don't think I'll do it. And that's that fear. So that's the psychological fear barrier. But what you're explaining is more the physical fear. What's, what's the physical fear that this could harm me. And so this is one of the levels of safety in our human condition, is to be mindful of physical fear, which is no different to someone who approached you in the street, who's aggressive, there's a physical threat going on, and you need to make a decision to either fight for ease or flight, which is your nervous system is already thinking about that before your brain can even kick in to figure out what's going on. And so some people have got the courage to stand up to that, I'm just going to fight back. And so that's a level of courage. But that's, that's getting through the physical challenge of safety versus on a different scale. Courage requires a level of thinking, a level of pushing through a level of intention of what you want to do, and achieve assuming that those goals are valuable to you, and you want to push through, where you're going to come up against it, because your brain is going to predict that things aren't going to work out. gonna create this, you know, the sciences, so we got a 10 to one negative bias. So that's a lot of bias to work up against.

Kerry Mensior: 18:13

So you for just a sec 10 to one, negative bias. Tell me more about that?

Unknown: 18:25

Well, if you think about how we feel about our life's journey, there's always more negative things that we analyze than positive things that we analyze. And again, I go back to the nervous system has evolved over more years than we can even comprehend the 65 plus million years that the Think about your nervous system as a hard drive the computer. So it's the system that we've been given, we've evolved over 60 plus million years. So the reason why it's survived and thrived over 65 million years is because it's kept us safe. Otherwise, if it didn't keep us safe, we probably would have been eaten or destroyed by some other creature on the planet. So

Kerry Mensior: 19:13

there's, there's a,

Unknown: 19:14

there's a, you know, you can you can process it that way and go Well, so, this creates fear, this creates so whenever we in danger, we will, our nervous system is always looking for danger in our environment, of course, in the societies that we live now, or the, the threats that we're, you know, present to us 100,000 years ago, million years ago and so, not not in existence now, but unfortunately, the computer harddrive that we got which runs our life, our nervous system has still got all this in it from all that time. So there therefore we reacting to everything that may be perceived as a threat. So, from there, the antidote to fear which comes up from wanting to be safe is courage. So So, if fear pops up, the way to overcome fear is that you have to have some level of courage to push through that barrier. And our mind starts to create, as I said, it's a predicting machine, it's going to predict on the other side of fear, there's things that are bad that we need to be careful of. That creates the 10 to one negative bias. Now, I would say from the human condition, however, understand and learn is that most of it's made up in their mind. Not Most of it's not real.

Kerry Mensior: 20:29

Yeah, our minds are amazing at being able to make stuff up, right? Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've had conversations in my head. I'm not proud to admit it. But I've had conversations in my head, dozens, maybe probably 1000s, that never actually occurred in life. But I was running all the possibilities through I was predicting what this other person might say how they might react, and clean through how that conversation might go. Or if later on how that conversation could have went up, I thought of those really great things to say and reply when, when I should have been I didn't so Okay, so how do we are? So if we don't we have a 10 to one, negative bias, we know that we're thinking about things that could happen to us. Bad in the future? What do you what do you how do you overcome that, then? Because I'm guessing that you have ways that if you know, we got this problem? Here's a solution for it are some ideas on how to deal with this problem, right?

Unknown: 21:38

Yep. Yeah, I think, again, from the deconstruction process, the first part is becoming aware of it becoming aware that unconsciously your nervous system is going to create this bias to keep you safe. And that's an automatic reaction within us. So it's not a sign of weakness, or it's not a sign of, you know, this shouldn't be happening to me, I shouldn't be feeling fearful. I've done this many times before. It's like, you know, you've talked about public speaking before, and you've done plenty of it, and I'm getting doing more and more, it doesn't mean it doesn't, each time we step up to the plate, our nervous system doesn't go, Oh, I hope this all works out, I hope you don't trip over and hit my head on the floor, or I hope I don't, you just stumble my words, I hope I get my message. But you know, like, this is negative bias coming up. And yet, at the end of it, when you're done, and you go, okay, that went pretty well, that you know, as well, you know, you know, worse a human or a better human going through it, you know, nobody's hurt you or whatever it is. So the challenge is that the starting point is to understand that it exists. And it's very normal of the human condition, to feel fear around stuff, because the mind will start to predict bad outcomes. And it's all there to protect you, as a human as a person. So you don't get hurt. The challenge is, so that's so if we think about this as that's at the unconscious level, and that's an emotional system within us that's creating these feelings, and it's going to deliver all the time. Then we got to use our thinking system. So that's the higher order brain to go. Okay, why am I feeling the way I'm feeling? What is this really? So in other words, you ask your brain a question to figure out, what's this feeling? I'm feeling Why am I feeling fear? And why am I getting nervous. And so fortunately, as we've evolved throughout history, about 100, according to the books 110,000 years ago, is our higher order brain or what we call the prefrontal cortex, or the neocortex, that area of the brain, which is the latest to develop, helps us strategically think through life and figure stuff out the construct. But because that came way, after the emotional system, which has been going for 60 odd million years, that's the most powerful system within us. So it's going to create this fear, because it wants to keep us safe, because you never know what's going to come around a corner and attack us and hurt us. So the process is become aware that this negative bias is going to pop up, accepted, because some people don't accept it. So if you don't accept anything, you're never going to take the action required to fix it. And that's going back to life journey. There's a lesson there is that people who stay in denial about things will never take the appropriate action to move into where it is they say they want to go. So if the emotional system our nervous system at work is creating this bias, left unchecked, so this is the this is the key bit if you leave that unchecked, it will keep on doing that. It'll just keep on finding negative bias. It'll keep on doing that. The people who achieve in life people who get through this barrier are the ones that are able to get, I appreciate that there's a negative bias here. And it gets described in all sorts of way, you know, create the voice in your head that tells it to settle down all that. But really, at a basic, basic level, what's happening is our emotional system has taken over in that moment. And this, you know, we talk about first responders and police and things that you've spoken about caring many, many times, that's what's going on the emotional system has kicked in. And if you react to the national system, it's most likely going to end up badly. And you talk about the prefrontal cortex the PFC kicking in so what I'm saying is that, if we know that, and understand and accept that the emotional system is going to create this feeling within us, which creates that fear that's 10 to one negative bias, because That's its job. Well, then we can use our higher higher order brain to analyze what actually is that feeling? Is it appropriate for this moment? Should I pay attention to it? Or should I not? And if we in a space of less than 30 seconds, you can ask your brain that question, it automatically starts to settle down that feeling because you've acknowledged it, you've named it, you're the you've understood, it's there. One of the challenges is that it escalates. Because it keeps feeding on itself that emotion. So as soon as you fear something in front of you, your nervous system goes right, right? panic, panic, panic, we need to, we need to be wary of this, and, and left uncheck to go, oh, is this really a danger? What's really going on here. And you know, you're not using your higher order brain to manage your emotional system, I suppose that's the key point here is that it's normal for your nervous system to react the way it does. Fear is a normal part of the human condition. And also, what you can be trained and learn to do is to use your higher order brain to manage that it's not going to you're not going to get it to go away. And over a period of time when these situations arise, and this is now what we call confidence, or experience, okay, I've had that happen before, this is how I've reacted, I've created neural pathways that says, Do this, do this, do this. And that alleviates the tension. Because it's the tension in the nervous system that creates the feeling to alert you there for a purpose. It's there to help you navigate your life to keep you safe. But left unchecked, it could work against you is probably the message that I'll make. Yep, just sort of breaking it down sometimes helps put the pieces of the puzzle together that deconstruction process.

Kerry Mensior: 27:46

That's brilliant. And when I go to remodel my bathroom, I know exactly how I need to do it, too. So yeah,

Unknown: 27:53

I mean, try putting new taps on top of the old ones doesn't work.

Kerry Mensior: 28:00

So if you'd be open to it, yep. Can I share a technique I've used to help always looking to learn? And kind of kind of break it down and tell me if you what, what what you think about it? That'd be okay.

Unknown: 28:16

All right. Sounds good.

Kerry Mensior: 28:19

Under, I'll give you an example. I went through the promotional process a couple of different times, more times, I'd like to think and the promotional process to become a sergeant had changed. And it became this series of interviews. It wasn't no, it used to be just one interview one and done that was it then became a series of interviews and answering questions in front of a board of three people or so and in some agencies use, you know, more people for an interview board. But there was always a tremendous amount of stress when I was about ready to walk into, you know, whatever hotel they had set up or interview or whatever the interview space was, yes. And I kind of cobbled together a couple of ways of dealing with this stress. And the one that's for me, seemed to be really effective. And it was before I knew all about the neuroscience stuff of this. And now when I look back, it makes total sense. But I would put my right hand on my heart, I would put my left hand of my gut, the heart because of the heart center. And because my decision making center, there's three in the body, head, heart and gut. My gut is the strongest and most people feel like you feel whatever you can figure out very quickly which your primary decision making center as is. You'll feel that you either know something or you'll feel it in your heart or feel it in your gut and I found that most people it's their gut. So I put my right hand on my heart, my left hand on my gut And I would, I would say, Thank you for letting me know that I'm in danger. Will you work with me to succeed at this? And I would literally either out loud if I have a car before I went in or in my head if I could do that. And if I couldn't do that, I would at least acknowledge and say, Yeah, I'm scared, and I gotta, I gotta get through this helped me. Yeah, and whether it's a prayer or meditation, whatever approach anyone takes. I've talked to people that I've taught that technique to who have used it very successfully. And you know, if I'm going into a gun battle, or I'm going into a burning building, I don't have time to stop and go, okay. Right handed or left handed. You know, that's, that's not an appropriate time for that. But when you have that time, I had found that worked for me, and it's worked for either what are your thoughts with this, with the all of your knowledge about this tend to a negative bias and pushing up the courage and against the fear wall? What are your thoughts on that process?

Unknown: 31:06

Yeah, well, I think two different two different things. So firstly, is that the instinct. So when you're running into the viewer, you definitely don't have time to analyze and, and again, to really get clear about your nervous system will kick in and do its thing. So when you're driving down, just visualize this, you're driving down the highway, and you're listening to a podcast and you're paying attention. So your higher order brain is listening, interpreting what's been said, not dissimilar to what people listening to this right at the moment will be doing, they'll be they'll be probably driving the car or doing some other activity, which is also happening automatic in the background. So you know, through trained ways, in other words, you try and value drive your car, that's the mammalian part of your brain that just puts things in things and does it repetitively. No differently. you're tying your shoelaces. So you're driving down the highway, and you're listening to carry on his podcast, and you got this fascinating person on there that you're listening to. You're right, and you're getting interested. And you're following the conversation and you're focusing on Yep, that makes sense to me. And you're putting putting this all together and your brains doing all this and all of a sudden, someone from the right lane cuts across the left lane to you. Things you have to your your foot goes to the brake you stop us so look at what's going on. There's another car that comes across, and you've gone potentially 3040 seconds down the road. Managing all this making sure you don't crash you didn't that you stopped whatever. And guess what happened to your brain who was listening to that podcast, it shut that down in a millisecond and a focused on the ever present danger. Like a just automated, it's not in to then. Okay, dangerous past and you go, Oh, what was that on the podcast that I missed that that thing? I think I'll stop and think. So the point of that is that our brain, our nervous system will always kick into that danger, always ending in your case, when you walked in, when you were around to that building, there was no time to think it's just instinct, you've been trained to do that. That's what you do. I'm not thinking about our, I've got to go and have that presentation, I'm going to hurt, I'm going to dirty my suit. I'm gonna, you know, all these things. There was no processing of that. On reflection you might have you might have done. So the challenge is that when we have time to think this is the point I'm making here is that when we have time to analyze a situation, we're going to think about all the things that could go possibly wrong. When the cars coming across you don't go, Hang on man. I'll just pause the podcast. I'll push my thing. And I'll stop that. I'll come back to that later. I'll just deal with this swerving car in front of me first, and then I'll go back to that there's none of that. Right. So the challenge for people to understand is this is happening to your brain all day every day. Yeah. So the the alert system, the danger is on all the time, on all the time. So if you're given half an hour to think about going on a podcast, standing in front of an audience, whatever it is, that is fearful for you, because you haven't done it before, or you haven't had enough practice or you don't have you don't have confidence around that. It's automatic, that this feeling is going to come up but the widest break that circuit down is to ask your brain the question why am I feeling this way? What is really happening here? And now you potentially name it and so one of the things that I've learned through the psychology field is that you know, you got to name it to tame it.

Kerry Mensior: 34:54

Yeah feeling

Unknown: 34:57

and then you got to feel it to heal it. Right. So if it's causing you problems, this feeling or this emotion, and you are pushing it aside and pushing it aside and pushing it aside and pushing aside, you're not feeling it, you're not going to be able to heal it. So a nice little phrase is you got to name it to tame it, and then feel it to heal it. So, the first bit of naming it to taming it is like, well, what's really the worst thing that can happen by me pushing through this courage, this barrier that requires courage? Or by let's say, it doesn't work out and you're predicting brain is right? Is this really going to change? who you are? Is this really going to cause you to go backwards in your life? Or is it going to take you forward? And this, this creates self doubt, which is another? Another another field in itself is that why do we get this self doubt? Well, the self doubt comes about that fear that you're not pushing through. And what I've learned to understand around this, and very, maybe insightful for some people is to the reason you have self doubt, or you have that fear, because of the consequences that you've created on the outcome of whatever it is you're trying to do, which is generally you have created those consequences, you have said, this is really important to me, I've got to do this, right. Otherwise, if I fail, it's going to be X, Y, Zed, you've put all this so you're creating the consequences, which actually increases the fear is that when you let go of the consequences, and you don't worry about the outcome, you worry about just presenting and doing your thing in the moment. The consequences are less playing a part in your mental state, and therefore you actually perform better, you are in a more positive state. Which is another thing, another area here is that the when you're in a fearful state, you're in a negative emotional state, not good things happen in a negative emotional state. What we've learned from the neuroscience is that when we're in a positive emotional state, good things happen to us. So we need to shift ourselves from this negative state to the positive state. And a circuit breaker is to ask your brain a question, because now has to think, left unchecked. So I think the moral of this will be getting around here is that, for people to really understand this, as you said, fourth grade level, is, if you leave your emotional system unchecked, it will just keep on going keep on going and creating neural pathways in your brain that create this fear. But we need to use our developed prefrontal cortex to stop that process. That doesn't mean that it's not going to always come up, it's always going to come up. But emotional resilience is about understanding when you're feeling a certain way, but then having the tools to put it at bay to calm it down. Tonight. So you know, and I've heard you talk a lot about this in that first responder feels so you can probably extract like that a bit further about when you're in a dangerous situation. If you react to that allow your emotions, that generally doesn't end well.

Kerry Mensior: 38:13

Correct you in we've seen that. I mean, you can go on YouTube and and search for pursuit ends with man beaten. And it's the officers at the end of a pursuit and suspect crashes and runs and then the answers catch them. And then there's the use of force. And the emotions have taken over this situation, they're not logically thinking, Okay, I got him in custody, got them handcuffed. It's all of the emotional surge that has taken place during however long that pursuit is it doesn't have to be a long pursuit, doesn't have to be an hour doesn't have to be 33 minutes, it can be 30 seconds. And it's still that same emotional intensity, whether it's 30 seconds, or 30 minutes. In fact, I'll say this, I'd rather have a pursuit go 30 minutes than three minutes. Because at the 30 minute mark, you've at least had some time to kind of process so in three minutes, you have no time to process it. 30 seconds, you're on time to process it, and it's just 100% emotions. And yeah, so brilliant stuff, torn, brilliant stuff, I

Unknown: 39:29

think, just just thought something to look back to what you said that that process where you put your hand on your heart and your gut because you're asking your body to work with you, essentially. To start to you know, to put a circle around this and to you know, break it right down is that really what you're doing is you're taking your nervous system out of that and negative emotional state, agitation tension, and you've got a process to calm it down to put it into a positive emotional state. And if we understand the science or around that when we're in a negative emotional state, we're not thinking clearly our higher order brain shuts down. You know, we don't make good decisions, we panic, we get fearful, but in a positive emotional state, our prefrontal cortex is engaged, it's thinking it's working it out. So being in a positive emotional state is the better place to be. And unfortunately, a lot of people get stuck in this negative emotional state, not just for 10 minutes, an hour, a day a week, but sometimes it's consistently because that's the go to that's there, that I'm just gonna look at everything negatively. Because why nervous systems? And yet you got, then you've got Okay, well, maybe if you shift into the positive emotional state, you'll see the same thing differently. And there's lots of signs and lots of work around how this is so powerful. So I think what will be really good for people to understand one great takeaway from today is take control, using your higher order brain have a method, whether it's hand on heart, whether it's ask yourself a question, you know, taking a deep breath, one of my older brothers has always said to me, he's like, drop your shoulders take a deep breath. That's just his go to. And there's still I don't think we figured out after 60 million years of evolution, any better way to settle down the nervous system, but to take breath to really, really, right, that's actually one of the best ways to settle down your nervous system take out the tension is and that what that does, is helps your brain engage, and helps your nervous system just settle down. And so you know, and because what happens is, you know, all these chemical reactions happen, that you do get tense your shoulders come up, yeah, you know, you get into a position of, I'm going to get ready to fight, and the adrenaline kicks in. And so this is what's happening is that your emotions are driving everything, as they always do, you might world and we need to find a circuit breaker, we need to find a circuit breaker. And then what happens is you become good at instinctively bringing those circuit breakers in challenging moments. And that's because of repetition. Because you've done it before. So go back to the cops on the beat, that approach a car, they've done this maybe 1015 2030 100 times before their nervous system, they know that they've trained themselves. Now when you're calm, and you approach and you don't, you're not aggressive, that generally calms the nervous system down or the other person, which is another great point is that if you're in a negative emotional state, you're never going to be able to shift another person into a positive emotional state. Right. So unless you're in a positive emotional state, ie in that situation, if you're not in a calm, positive state, you're never going to calm down someone who's angry, if you're angry,

Kerry Mensior: 42:49

and dumb or a regular for our regular listeners, and anybody who has been through any ideas training. When torn says negative emotional state, you can just what he's the phrase, he's using his what we call survival state, and when he talks about positive emotional state, so what we call executive state, and with, you know, if I'm in survival state, and the reality is this, every single traffic stop, that a law enforcement officer makes everybody's in survival state, the officers in survival state walking up because they don't know who's in that car. And there's danger in that. They don't know if that person's a little blue haired raisin had lady at eight years old, who's just, you know, accidentally speeding or ran a red light or has taillight out whatever the situation is, or if it's some hardened parolee at large gang member who's got a gun in his lap, and he's getting ready to kill you, you don't know. And so you're in survival state that driver, we might we've identified so many of the different fears and emotions that a driver is feeling when they're pulled over. And, and nowadays, they've been privileged, a large part of the United States population has been conditioned through mainstream media to fear what the police officers going to do, or deputies going to do to them. So the drivers always in survival state. And so what we teach is, you as a law enforcement officer, you have to shift yourself into executive state, because otherwise what happens is the mirror neurons that are in the other person's brain are going to pick up on you being in survival state and is going to trigger them into survival state even deeper, because their brain is going well if a cop is in survival state, I really need to be scared because now he or she is really unpredictable. And in in in in some of these encounters with the public and not just on law enforcement. Go negative on the medical services. Is was shocking to me one of the Since that we got into serving medical services, because I was blown away by the number of physical assaults that occur. And medical provider situations at a hospital, not just the emergency room, upon the medical treatment floors, nurses, doctors, staff members that are assaulted by patients, families, I patients, it's crazy that you never, you don't hear about that stuff. But it's happening. And so being able to shift yourself into executive center positive emotional state, allows you the opportunity to then reach into that other person's brain flip a switch, and they don't even know that you did it. Or they just know they feel more calm. But you can't do that. If you're in survival state. It doesn't happen. I'm so glad that you brought that up. Because yeah, I 100% agree with you on that. And when you understand the, the neuroscience behind all this where you're on, okay, got mirror neurons going on, I got a mirror neuron gap that's happening. And when I can use that gap to my advantage, and my advantage being we can get everybody calm and their PFCs or prefrontal cortex back online. Because when we're in negative emotional state, the PFC shuts off. That's functional MRIs tell us that. It's scientifically proven. Literally, when you think I couldn't think of a good answer. You're right. It's not your fault. If part of your brain was shut down? Yeah. Yep. So and torn? And I have an answer for how to fix that. So it's awesome. Yeah.

Unknown: 46:36

And I think I think as I said, it's still part of the understanding and breaking it down. And when you become aware and accept that this is going on, then potentially, you can create an action or a pathway, a tool that you can use, and then when you believe that that's going to help you and you start getting new evidence that it does, well, then it becomes part of your neural pathway. And you think that's what we call confidence, right? Is that when we know we got something that works for us, I'm confident in that process, no different to I go up on stage, and I've got a structure and how I'm going to present what I'm going to talk I've gotten, I've done that now. 100 times, I've got confidence in what that is. So your brain goes into this process. And so that's, essentially what you're doing is you're putting yourself into that positive emotional state. And all good things happen in that place. So yeah, it's fascinating stuff. There was one other thing that just escaped me know when you were talking that you triggered me to think about, but it'll come back to me. Yeah, sorry. It's gone now.

Kerry Mensior: 47:47

Okay, that's all right. So so here's what we're going to have to do. We'll have to have you back on another episode of The de escalation conversations podcast. So that, and when this thought pops into your head, you'll be able to write it down. And then we'll, we'll make sure that we talked about in next episode, how's that? Sound? You open to that?

Unknown: 48:03

Yeah, sounds sounds fantastic. And I think, probably what, around that we'll just one minute around this is that, you know, in those moments of tension, it is it is normal for both party. So in that police situation, but you know, maybe we just jump out of that scenario. And and I'll take you into my world of helping business owners, because it's no different there and other areas, right. So let's say in a sales process, which is the spearhead of everybody's business, without sales, you know, businesses, the wheels don't move in a business. And in a sales process, remembering the negative 10 to one bias is that your prospect or the person that you're trying to help influence, become compliant to whatever it is, you've got to offer this the solution to their problem. If they're stuck in that negative emotional state, and you haven't shifted them to the positive emotional state, they'll always see your product through that lens, and they'll never see it through what it really can do to help them because they're stuck in this negative emotional state. So we all do just just remembered what that was for people to really understand this is that energy. So there's lots of energy flowing in that tension moment when you're approaching that car or when you're in the sales process, there's energy flowing from both parts. And your nervous system is way way more attuned to that energy and what's going on then your intellectual brain can process so the energy your your nervous system is doing all this. So just so the example is when you've come home from a day at work, whatever it is, and you're in a good you're in a good state, and you've had a good day you potentially had some successful you've achieved your goals for that day, and you've walked in home and your significant other person that you live with your carer your I'm sorry, your partner in life or whatever that may be without them saying the word You can feel that they're not in a good place. And that's that energy. So this just for people to understand is that we've all had this experience where we've walked in and go, Oh, what's wrong with her, him, them, or whatever. And it's, what does that do to you, it shifts you in an instant, you know that you can't even measure it. It's that quick, from your own positive emotional state into a negative emotion there, because of that energy you're getting from that other person. Left unchecked, left unchecked, and not analyzed, you will fall into that negative emotional state. And next thing, you know, you've got bad energy going back and forth. And so this this is, so the reason I brought that up and wanted to bring that up is that just to highlight, this is happening all the time within us in every interaction, that you are in a good place, you're in a good a positive emotional state, you encounter someone else in whatever it is that you're doing, who is not, and that's going to impact you, that's actually called Emotional refraction. So you're refracting another person into a different state from one state to another, and it left unchecked and not becoming aware of that, it takes you into a spiral that necessarily don't want to go, you need to have a circuit breaker, you need to be trained to think about what and that's simply a question, a step back, a breath, whatever, whatever works for you to then let the person be understood. So the nervous system of the person like go back to your guy in the car, the cop approaching, the thing that's creating tension with the person in the car, is they want to feel understood. They want to go are the reason I'm you pulled me up or whatever it is. My problem is, and if the police officer doesn't make them feel understood, that's going to create tension gonna keep them negative. One of the antidotes to moving someone from a negative emotional state into a positive emotion, which we teach in our trainings, and that is to make them feel understood. When that person feels understood, their nervous system calms down, they move into a positive emotional state, and now they're ready to listen. Now they're ready to listen to become compliant and influence with whatever it is you're trying to portray that message. But if they don't feel understood, so in a in a business in a sales process, if your client doesn't feel understood in what it is that you understand, and the problem is, they're not listening to your solution, they've switched off. So the reason why sales conversion rates are so low is because people were in the sales profession. They just want to tell them about their own, how good they are, and what everything they've got, that's going to solve their problem, but they're not actually listening to that person's nervous system go, what actually is your problem, maybe I haven't got it right. And when they feel understood, and their nervous system, now they're in a positive emotional state, now they are ready and open to listening. So that's a pro tip for all the business people out there. Make sure your clients feel understood. And understand that there's, this is a biological thing that's going on within that person. They need to shift from a negative emotional state to a positive if you're not paying attention to that, you're not going to get the influence and and compliance that you're looking for in results. So yeah, that was what was going on in the background. So I had needed to get to that area. Otherwise, it would have bothered me all day.

Kerry Mensior: 53:22

And we can't have that. And and everybody who's listening to this benefits from that, you know, it's interesting to her and what what you just covered over the last few minutes, because one of one of our core teaching principles is everybody in the world has an addiction and addiction. And that addiction is to be understood exactly what you were just talking about. We teach that and there's not a training that that that we do that doesn't have that core principle in there. Every body is addicted to feeling understood. It's not just feeling understood. There's and there's a subtle difference on this that that I really liked to make. It's not just that they feel or that you're making them feel understood. It's that you actually demonstrate that understanding. Yep. And there's that there's that's a two millimeter shift. From Oh, I'm making them feel understood. Well. How do you do that? By actually demonstrating, demonstrating that you do understand them? Yeah. And it was it was funny. Just last night, I was sitting at dinner. I was in Huntsville, Alabama, at the NASA Space Center. We were there I taught earlier in the day and I was talking to the wife. She's an she's an officer on the agency that I trained. She'd been at the training and she's Also the wife of a very good friend of mine. And we were talking about something she was sharing some some personal experiences with me. And I said to her, Well, sounds like that must have felt like a sub a setback. You and she said to me, I was dead on had to feel like a setback, I felt so comfortable when I said that I still qualified it. But I was I was like, I'm dead on on this one in my head, you know? And she said, Well, actually, it wasn't a setback. There was an opportunity to and then she expanded on it. I'm like, wow. Couple of nuggets came out of that, number one, dial yourself back care. Number two, what an insightful woman. This lady and I mean that with a capital L. She, she didn't take something in a negative way, she did have a negative bias toward it, instead of what I certainly would have perceived as a setback, shade looked as an opportunity to expand in different area, like, working brilliant. And I'm so glad that I left because even though I felt very confident in what, in what her experience had been, I still left wiggle room there, just in case I was wrong. Even though I didn't think I was, yes, I left that wiggle room. And when I was wrong, it was okay. And she, it was interesting. She's like, now, she explained that. And then we had a great conversation about this opportunity and what it meant for her what it meant for her child. So yeah. But in in doing that, that's one way to demonstrate your understanding is, is being able to label that and allow them to confirm it, or shift it and not do it in a way where they have to push back against you. But in a way that leads the conversation forward. So brilliant stuff. Brilliant, very powerful.

Unknown: 57:17

I think, you know, that's a no, no, we're running out of time. But good segue way into going back to that self doubt. And negative bias is, you know, and I mentioned that, you know, the consequences that you put on the outcome, often is driving the self doubt or the fear and bit like what that lady just did, is in that in that conversation is that, whichever way it goes, I'm going to see the benefit in it. So she's put a benefit on the consequences, good, bad or otherwise. And so, so the way to process this and to train yourself in emotional development is yes, I've got self doubt around this, I can understand the fears, I'm gonna go and push, use courage to pour through whatever happens on the other side of it. If it works, that's a benefit. If it doesn't work, I've learned something that's a benefit, how am I going to use that going forward, so what you're doing is you're training yourself to see the benefit in the consequences of the outcome. Versus there'll be 10 things that can go wrong, and one that can go right, that tend to one negative bias. And that is enough to stop you even having an attempt. And the other thing I will say and this is not this is very, very normal for all of us. So when you heard that person's story, and you said that must have been a setback, very normal by the way, that's actually your negative bias applied to that not not in a bad way. But that's what we agree with you. were analyzing that and go oh, that must have been and that's that's your negative bias kicking in. So the great learning for you there in that moment. And certainly me as I'm reflecting on what you just said, is that we are opposing our this is, you know, we're doing this naturally all the time is putting on negative bias in a situation because that's what our nervous system is built to do. That's my overarching message today is that our nervous system is built to do this. Work with it don't work against it.

Kerry Mensior: 59:19

Yeah, and that's um, I'm gonna leave it at that work with it, not against it. That's I think that's gonna be the tagline of the show today. And appreciate that. Hey, when we get back together for another episode, I'm just gonna plant the seed in your head and I been writing down notes and stuff that we've been chatting, but this emotional refraction. I want to dive into the next time we do an interview and I know you're incredibly busy. I'm so honored by the time that that you've given us in the wisdom and the insights, but this emotional refraction And I just want to plant the seed and in our listeners heads, I want you to think. And you and I've talked about emotional refraction before. Every time that term comes up, I have this visual that I flashed to. And it happened again today when you when you throughout that term, I remember having on my sliding glass door, at my first house, very first house I ever bought, the sun would come in in the afternoon, through this window, and I had a suction cup with a little hook on it, or the the hanging from that suction cup was a prism. Yep. And when the sun came in and struck that prison, what would happen is it wasn't big it was it was, I don't know, three inches, three and a half inches long, it wasn't big. But when the sun hit that prism, the color spectrum that went across my kitchen, I would, I would sometimes walk into that room. And I'd be like, Whoa, what's going on. And I'd look over and the sun was just at the right angle. And it was all these different colors in the color spectrum. And it was fascinating to me that there could be a red going in that direction and a purple going in that direction and a blue going in that direction and a green going over here. So every time you do you brought that term up, I always think of that, because that was one of my favorite memories of that house. was seeing that happen in that in nature coming in and the wonder of a prism and in just being in the right place at the right time to experience it. Yeah. But you no matter what direction the light went in, there was something cool that came out of it.

Unknown: 1:02:07

Yeah, that's lovely. It's great. Yeah, so that process I think I'm not a scientist when it comes to that. But that's actually every fracturing process you got light coming in one side that changes the color of it. So here's a thought that's what we're doing as humans so I can refract your emotional state based on how I respond to what it is you're saying you're doing so if you want to influence or get someone compliant to whatever it is because we want to connect with humans that's that's the thing our nervous system wants to do once they connect connect connect that's out survived and thrived. way to do that is to building relationships is about emotionally refracting. Is that how do we get them to feel? They like us and we like them. And so you know, you know, straight away, you know, you spoken to someone for three to five minutes get, don't rely on this person. And then you spoke to someone for three to five minutes. And you got I liked this person. So they're refracting on you changing your state to give you that feeling? If you had a negative emotional state you got I don't like them. If you got a positive emotional state you do like and three minutes is not enough to your brain to analyze is carried a good guys turn a good guy should I like him? Should I not. But your nervous system is way ahead of the game. Well, that's that emotional reflection.

Kerry Mensior: 1:03:28

Yeah. And we in one of the things that we teach is, those decisions are made. Oftentimes in milliseconds, even without you being aware of it. In fact, I want to I want to close up our interview today. I'm just going to throw it we're not listeners, we're not going to go deep into this. We're going to be wrapping this up in the next minute or so. But I'm going to talk briefly about your reticular activating system, your RAs, Ras, whatever lets you do just as a quick exercise and turn you can do it with me. And listeners do this. I want you to wiggle your toes. Just wiggle your toes. One foot doesn't even have to be both feet. But because I'm one foot, wiggle your toes. And I want you to feel if you're wearing a sock, the sock that is around your toes and maybe even there's a shoe around your foot. And what's interesting to me fascinating actually is how our RAS filters out everything and you talked about this before it filters out everything that's not critical. It's not important. And it shoves it down into our subconscious or unconscious or non conscious in what our conscious level is right now you're aware of the sock around your toes and maybe the shoe or on your toes as well but you're on where the soccer you're aware of. No, I'm not wearing shocks. I've got flip flops on or I'm barefoot and I don't have a sock but you're aware of it. Yep. 15 seconds ago you were not even remotely Thinking about that sock wrapped around your foot. And now you're highly aware of it. And as we think about the ability of our brain to influence us to influence other people, how, how can we have a better life? How can we show up as our best self having that awareness, bringing it to the front of our mind, literally, the PFC, the prefrontal cortex, bring it to the front of your mind. So that you interact in the most positive way, whether it's to make a sale, for your business to be able to help the customer. That which is the best form of sales is your yes, there is there is an exchange of money, but you're receiving that money because you're going to truly help this other person. And, and oftentimes, that thought alone gets you through any sales fears that you might have is, you really are benefiting this other person, they are coming out ahead because of what you're doing with them in exchange for that money. Or you're interacting with the people in your family, your kids, your wife, your partner, or co workers or the communities that you serve, whatever that community is, whether it's community of business owners or community that you serve as medical services provider, you're your classroom full of kids are the teachers that you serve as superintendent. The point is that you can be more aware of this, and you can be the best person that your best self to be able to fill that role for what's needed. And just being really aware of that. So torn. Thanks for Thanks for being here today. Is there any last closing thoughts? You want to want to leave with listeners before we Yeah, I think out or tell No, no, no,

Unknown: 1:06:47

no, I feel energized, I've got many things I'd love to share. And but I think just wrapping that last bit, you said, which is super, super important. That, and I say this to my business coaching clients and mentoring is that self awareness is the number one skill in business. So becoming aware of what's around you, how you're interacting who you are, how you're impacting the people around you. So becoming very self aware, is a skill that, and it is a skill to keep on developing continuously forever. And that helps you on the pathway to evolve into a better version of yourself. Because one of the things I learned about human behavior is that when you learn more about yourself, you start to learn more about the people around you. Because the systems that we all got. So the hard drives that we got the nervous system, the programs that are in pretty much we all got the same ones, it's just how they interplay with each other, which is causes our individuality. But your nervous system is no different mind subject to any variances that you know from a health perspective that from a defect or something like that. But let's say 99.9% of the people on the planet have got the same nervous system biological system, they've obviously they've potentially got the programming the emotional system, the thinking system, they're doing system, these are the core systems. And when we understand and become self aware of this, that can only help us navigate the pathway in life to whatever he was trying to achieve. And what I've learned to my journey is the more I've learned about myself around this, the more I've understood the people around me, the better I've been able to connect, and the better I've been able to get what it is that I'm striving to do whatever that may be in whatever field of endeavor you're in. And so their parting words really is put a high priority on self awareness in whatever you're doing. That will lead you to where it is you the knowledge you need to help you in your field of endeavor, whatever that may be.

Kerry Mensior: 1:08:54

Love it. Love, love what you share on a regular basis torn your your heart is big, your head is big. And I don't mean that in a big headed ego way. Just full of knowledge. And you're true to your core. You are you're just you're a good man with a good heart. And I'm blessed that Krishna is on with us today. I you know, I know our listeners will benefit but there's not any. There's not a minute I have time that I spend with you that I don't benefit as well. So thank you for that gift.

Unknown: 1:09:25

Excellent. Appreciate the opportunity to carry and yeah, I wish all your listeners well.

Kerry Mensior: 1:09:30

Thank you so much, folks, if you're, as torrin Probably aptly described you driving while you're listening to this, know that you can glance into the show notes. The ability to follow Tor and get a hold of him. He's on LinkedIn. It's his name on LinkedIn and all of that information about his contact will be in the show notes. If you've been watching us on video you've been seen periodically. Both torrents what sight and his LinkedIn profile have appeared on the screen multiple times during the show. And so you, you can also go into the show notes on YouTube or Facebook, wherever your whatever platform you're watching this on, and be able to copy and paste that out, I highly encourage you to keep in touch with Torin he's he's just, you can't tap just below this. I mean, we got surface level of all the wonderful things that he has to share with you in our hour together. And there's just so much more again, I spend an hour with him every week and I learn new stuff all the time. So definitely stay in touch with Torne he's he's worth the investment of your time. Please go to our website, the idea dot world click on whatever area that you're in if you're a first responder, police, fire medical services, school, teacher business, whatever area and we have training available for you to be able to help you have a better life to be able to help you combat angry person in seconds. And oftentimes that starts with you. So please check out our website the idea that world and we have a new episode of de escalation conversations that drops every Monday morning 6am Pacific. So look for our next episode as well. Until next time, as always, stay safe. I hope you found a lot of great value in this episode of The de escalation conversations podcast, please be sure to go to our website the idea dot world th e ID e a dot world on that website. Just click on the link that resonates with the most if you're a K through 12 educator if you're a firefighter, medical services, law enforcement, flight attendants, whatever industry you're in, we have specialized training for you. So check that training out because literally it can save your life. It can save your relationship it can save your career. So check out the idea that world and I look forward to seeing you soon. Take care