John (Mark) Departs | Disruptive Presence 63

In which John and David discuss how relationships have always been a point of tension for the church. Paul and Barnabas's missionary group is stretched and reshaped as friends and family move on from the work they are doing.

Episode 119 of the Two Texts Podcast | Disruptive Presence 63

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Transcript

AI Generated Transcript

[00:00:00] John:  
 

[00:00:04] Well, David, I'm excited to be back again after a wonderful story of the proconsul coming to a place of faith through the Word of God. And it feels like Barnabas and Saul can now progress with some level of... Real confidence having seen the Pro Consul come to faith and they're moving into another new place and another new moment. 

[00:00:30] And it does feel like, oh yeah, they've been sent, they've been released, they've seen some great things happen on the island of Cyprus. And this thing's starting to roll and it feels 

[00:00:41] like, right, okay, this, this new season, this new missionary journey or ministry journey is kicking off in a really positive way. 

[00:00:53] David: And I love this idea that he saw it happened, he believed, and he was astonished at the teaching of the Lord. And this is almost setting us up to expect what we're going to get , , from the text and how that moves on. So we've got Paul, Barnabas John, and perhaps some others involved in this whole kind of sent out by the Holy Spirit process, haven't we? 

[00:01:15] John: Yeah, yeah, beautiful, beautiful. So it's almost like when we come to verse 13, we are, okay, what's, what's going to happen next? This is, this is building nicely. So where are we off to now? So we're, we're going to pick the reading up from verse 13 and that's, that's see where the Holy Spirit takes us to next. 

[00:01:32] David: Okay, so Acts chapter 13 and verse 13, an easy one to remember, two thirteens. 

[00:01:37] John: That's it. 

[00:01:39] David: Then Paul and his companions set sail from Paphos and came to Perga in Pamphylia. John however, left them and returned to Jerusalem. But they went on from Perga and came to Antioch in Pisidia. And on the Sabbath day, they went into the synagogue and sat down. After reading, after the reading of the law and the prophets, the officials of the synagogue sent them a message saying, Brothers, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, give it. 

[00:02:12] And, you know what, before I move on, John, in that, there's actually a couple of interesting points right the way in where, Paul is, Paul's one of these people that if he comes to your church and you send him a message like. Brothers, if you have any word of exhortation, give it, so we're at verse 15, Paul finishes his word of exhortation at verse 47. 

[00:02:35] John: Come on, come on, 

[00:02:36] come on. And, and, and all, yeah, yeah, I was, I was going to say all, all the preachers and teachers listening to us go, oh man, come on, Paul, 

[00:02:45] rocket lab, let's do it. Yeah, give, give Paul an inch and he will take the proverbial mile all the way down the road. Absolutely. We love 

[00:02:53] David: Do you have any word of exhortation? It turns out I have several. So, so, I mean, I, I do, there is, there is a part of me that just really deeply appreciates the, the, the humor of, of, of Paul just being prepped and ready, ready but, but there's a couple of interesting points just in this interest in this. 

[00:03:13] Intro to Paul's sermon and where, I mean, it really is fun on, on that level to hear a full sermon from Paul and see, okay, how is he really going to go about structuring this? But, but let's just pause a little bit, a couple of highlight points. And let's begin with the first one that caught me so, so they set sail from Paphos, come to Perga and Pamphylia, but John. leaves them and returns to Jerusalem. So, so right from the outset, their party that we've just been introduced to is, is changing again. 

[00:03:45] John: Yeah, and it feels like, and again in my Bible, maybe for some of our listeners as well, I've got a nice little heading that separates verse 13 and verse 

[00:03:57] 12.  
 

[00:03:58] David: yes. 
 

[00:03:59] John: But of course, if you read 12 into 13, it feels, oh, oh, hold on a minute. So, so if you read, verse 12, when the proconsul saw what had happened, he believed and was amazed at the teaching of the Lord. 

[00:04:12] And then from Pathos, Paul and his companions sailed to Perga and Pamphylia where John left them. So, so you, you have this amazing moment where the proconsul has believed and then you're thinking, right boys, this is it. This is amazing. We've just seen the top. most authoritative Roman official on the island 

[00:04:37] come to faith in Jesus and you think, if anything's going to excite and gel the team and cause the team to pull together in the same direction, that would be it. 

[00:04:48] And the very next piece of information we are given is that John leaves the group. 

[00:04:54] David: mm, mm, 

[00:04:55] John: Wow. And, and without, without giving away too much later on If any of our listeners have been tracking us, we've already nibbled at the edges of this a little bit in different episodes, but later on in Acts 15, of course, Paul and Barnabas end up separating over this incident sort 

[00:05:16] of thing. And what's really interesting is that here Luke says he left them, but when Paul raises the issue a couple of years later in chapter 15 of Acts, Paul says he deserted us. 

[00:05:32] So it seems to be that whatever is happening here, it's of a major impact on both Paul and Barnabas, even though Dr. Luke really just quickly moves on, there's, he notes it, but moves past it, and he doesn't make anything of it in this context, but clearly something has gone, gone on there, and, and, and I, I'm I suppose the way I'm wired, maybe it's the way I've been trained, or, or maybe it's just all personality, everything mixed in, but I, I read a passage that, and I, the first question I ask is, why did he leave? We've just seen the proconsul saved, we've just seen amazing miracles on the island of Cyprus, why has John suddenly left? And I think it's, I think it's worthwhile just pause and think, do we know, or are there any clues in the text that might suggest why he has left? 

[00:06:25] David: Yeah, I mean, it's interesting as you're saying that I've got kind of Acts 15 verse 36 through 41 is roughly where the sort of disagreement comes out. And it's interesting that you've got, Paul says to Barnabas, come, let's return and visit the believers in every city where we've proclaimed the word. 

[00:06:42] So he does this sort of, a comeback tour at some level where he's going to go back and just check in on everybody. And all we get, I mean, let me just read the exact text, Barnabas wanted to take with them, John called Mark, Paul decided not to take with them one who had deserted them in Pamphylia and had not accompanied them in the work. 

[00:07:04] I mean, Luke's, Luke's kind of commentary on it, it's pretty harsh language, isn't it?  

[00:07:08] John: It is. It is.  

[00:07:09] David: them and, and had  

[00:07:11] John: not, continued.  

[00:07:12] David: Yeah, not, not come with them,  

[00:07:14] John: Yeah.  

[00:07:15] David: and and so, and this leads to this disagreement that they you know, they, they, they go their separate ways. 

[00:07:20] But, but it is, it's a very curious point that you make that. That it's only later that we get this description of desertion at this point. It seems like there's nothing really doing, doesn't  

[00:07:34] John: Yeah. it's true.  

[00:07:36] David: doesn't come with them,  

[00:07:36] John: yeah, it's true. It's like, maybe Dr. Luke is preoccupied of with the idea, right? I just want to tell you what happened next. 

[00:07:45] We will eventually get to this moment a bit later 

[00:07:47] on in the story, which of course we do in a very while. Explosive way, dynamic way. But here he just, he just notes it. 

[00:07:56] But it is, it is worthwhile for us to note the note. 

[00:08:00] And I think something so significant has gone on in young John Mark that he leaves and, For me, I think it's worthwhile a reflection on, are there any, are there any clues within the text as to why he may have decided to do it? Because what's interesting, of course, he decides to leave at Perga. 

[00:08:21] David: Mm-hmm. 

[00:08:21] John: that's interesting, just at a sort of a nerdy level, is because Perga is 8 miles inland from the coast. 

[00:08:29] So, if he was thinking of leaving, why didn't he leave just... When they got, when they got to the coast, why didn't he make the sort of more practical decision to leave at that point? 

[00:08:38] So again, 

[00:08:39] it seems to suggest that something's brewing, something's going on 

[00:08:45] that reaches a sort of breaking point for John Mark 

[00:08:49] when we get to Perga. That that somehow he felt he could tolerate when they when they first land. So so it does feel to me like something something's going on there that is forcing John Mark to make a very extreme having signed up as an under rower as this. helper to 

[00:09:09] Barnabas, his relative unto Saul. He now deserts his post as we discover later on and does not continue with them in the work. So it's pretty significant to me that, that it's, it's worthy of a moment of consideration considering what we know is coming next 

[00:09:28] within 
 

[00:09:31] David: It's. Sir. Yeah. On you. Go on, you go. 

[00:09:33] John: that. So I mean, in my reflection, I was just sort of thinking, right, is there any clues in the text that might suggest why? John Mark has changed his mind. And I noted a couple of wee things. Now again, as we often say to our listeners, we could be over cooking here. And if we are, and if you feel we are, well, look, you just stick it in the bin. But I noticed an interesting little 

[00:09:55] shift.  

[00:09:56] David: episode 63, so we're, this is not the first time we're sneaking these thoughts up on you. 

[00:10:01] John: Yeah, it's true. It's true. It's true. But I noticed, I noticed a little shift Verse 13. It's one of those hidden in plain sight moments for me David. It says verse 13 from pathos Paul and his companions Now the reason I saw the contrast is because when when we see the beginning we spent a lot of time at the beginning of x13 thinking about sent and loosed 

[00:10:26] and at the beginning of x13 a few verses before like 11 verses previous it says set apart from me Barnabas and Saul, for the work to which I've called them. And it seems like up to the point of the Proconsul, Barnabas is sort of directly or, or indirectly accepted as the leader of this, this, little team, whatever, whatever constitutes this team. But what's really interesting, verse 13, there's a definite shift. Paul and his companion, Saul. In fact, Barnabas isn't even mentioned here in this, And, and this is a very human thought, so this could be totally inappropriate, but a little human thought. Could, could John's decision or irritation with Paul be to do with the fact that he sees Paul as assuming a leadership role that they didn't 

[00:11:25] start the trip with? And that Barnabas, his relative, and this man he looks up to, is, is sort of squeezed a little bit and Maybe even at a human level, he sees Barnabas being, forgive my language because this is not in the text, but almost demoted or Paul assuming a level of authority or leadership that John Marcos. 

[00:11:50] I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I like that. I'm not sure I want to accept that now again. I appreciate I could be seeing stuff that's not there and overcooking that. But I've been around the church long enough to know that sometimes we make huge decisions based on very human feelings, it's not even like we're making it because the Holy Spirit told us or because the devil's against us or because there's major stuff. 

[00:12:14] Sometimes we're making decisions because we're really annoyed at something. or we're annoyed at someone. Is this a little hint at an annoyance within John Mark that Paul has assumed a level of leadership and authority here? 

[00:12:28] David: That's a fascinating insight, John, because there's, I mean, I love in this text, the fact that in keeping with the biblical narrative, which is really fascinating we could deter into a long conversation about this, so I'm going to try and avoid it. But in terms of writing scripture, right? The. It fascinates me how Luke adopts a style, which is very in keeping with how you quote unquote, write scripture, right? 

[00:13:02] So when we talked about this in two texts before, how. There's points of Luke sound like sections of the Old Testament and the way he, like he reports the Magnificat of Mary, that great song that Mary sings after the announcement to her. But it's also not lost on us that he takes the words that Mary says and frames them in such a way that it sounds very similar to the story that we encounter at the start of Samuel, and so it's as if. 

[00:13:28] Luke is so deeply invested in scripture that he, he knows how to write scripture, even though I don't think at the time he was aware that he was writing scripture, if that makes, if that makes sense, but this follows on in that trend, particularly of the, of the, the book of the Samuel and the book of the Kings, that trend of not covering up things of leaving the sort of, kind of All the expose style approach like, these great heroes of this story are falling out over things. 

[00:14:02] They're abandoning it. It's very out of sync with the kind of Greek biography type language that you encounter where your heroes do little wrong. Luke seems to. choose intentionally to, to not, not to dish the dirt, but to just tell us the things as they happen. And I think that does call us to pay attention sometimes to the subtleties of what's going on. 

[00:14:27] I was looking as you were saying that, verse 13, Paul and his companions. And then there's a little comment all the way down verse 46. It's not until then. Both Paul and Barnabas speak out boldly. So there is this sort of, there is this, this, this subtle silencing of, of Barnabas in, in Paul's behavior. 

[00:14:52] And now, let me say this in defense of the verbose, which is really just an apology for myself. It's like, I totally appreciate that. That somebody can be so excited by the text that they just barrel on in and out rolls this sermon. I, my goodness, that's, that's I, I feel the shame, John, of how often I've just got so excited about something and just gone on, but, but is. 

[00:15:20] Paul, I was thinking if you connect it back to verse nine, Saul, also known as Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, like, is that the moment in Luke's telling of the narrative that Luke thinks something shifted and changed here and, and, and I'm now I'm now going to, at very least, Luke is going to tell us things differently. 

[00:15:43] It is now Paul and, is now Paul and the band, you know what I mean? It's so I, I think it's worth reflecting on what you're saying. 

[00:15:51] John: I think it is. And of course, if we, if we remember back that Cyprus is Barnabas's or Joseph the Levite from Cyprus's home territory, 

[00:16:03] David: Yeah. 
 

[00:16:04] John: then those subtle shifts of Saul, Paul, Paul, almost it looks like Paul is, is stepping up. With the whole story of Elemis and Proconsul, etc, etc. It's like, it does look like Paul takes charge there 

[00:16:21] David: Yeah. 
 

[00:16:22] John: and he's taking charge on, on Barnabas's home territory and, and you sort of go, Ooh, is, are we overcooking that? 

[00:16:30] Or is, is there something very dynamic taking place there? Now, you wouldn't, you wouldn't have to be a genius in terms of things like personality profiling to recognize that a Barnabas beside a Saul Paul and, and, Saul is Paul is definitely a sort of a type A personality in the sense that he's, he's like going for it. 

[00:16:52] He's a go getter. He's a, And already what we've seen in Barnabas is a much more mercy orientated, almost shepherding, pastoral type person. So, so what we know about the two men already from Saul's background pre Jesus, Saul's background post conversion, And Barnabas's different allusions within the text of the Book of Acts. 

[00:17:15] That these are two very different men who will operate from very different gift and personality perspectives. And it feels a bit like, to me, Paul has exerted an authority. 

[00:17:30] Properly so, rightly so, appropriately so. I don't think there's any angstiness in the text. But of course, what we forget is there's a young man with them who may have signed up more for Barnabas than for Saul. 

[00:17:43] This is his relative, remember? There's a history with this man. There's a connection with this man. So there's probably already at some level of intimacy and relationship with this man. And then he sees his like relative Barnabas being sort of sidelined a little bit and this this energetic sort of go getter Paul guy Is, is like the vacuums created, Paul just rushes in, that's just do this, as you alluded to humorously at the beginning, brothers, if you have a thought, well, Paul, like, okay, I was born ready, mate. 

[00:18:17] I'm ready to go. All right. I've got a whole stack of stuff in my, in my iPad ready to unleash on you right now. 

[00:18:24] How long have you got? So, so you, you, when you meet Saul, pre-Jesus, when you meet the, the converted Saul, this is a man ready to go. This is a man like on his tiptoes, waiting for the bee of the bang sort of thing in terms 

[00:18:38] of, of the gun. Whereas with, with Barnabas, you get a much, you, you, you, you get a different feel. 

[00:18:44] And it feels like the, the, leadership of the team has shifted on this journey. And, and it could be one of the reasons. John Marcos I'm not sure I wanna follow Paul. because that this, this may be leading me somewhere I don't want to go. 

[00:19:01] Just, just a thought. As a reflection. 

[00:19:04] David: Fascinating as well, then, what conflict does to us, where, I mean, and this, I mean, and anybody listening can't, can't go from here and say, this is what's going on in this text because I'm now adding a supposition to your supposition, but, but I'm thinking more about humans at the minute that, that if, if that's what's going on here. 

[00:19:33] Isn't it fascinating that John's decision is to leave, so he doesn't, if it's because he doesn't like what's happened to Barnabas, he leaves Barnabas, and, and how sometimes when we feel wronged or slighted, our behavior is isolation, our behavior. is to step away and inadvertently, I mean, I think that's, that's true, right? 

[00:19:59] I mean, I don't think that needs to be defended from within the text or not. That's a human behavioral piece. But if you were to think about the reading that you've offered here, fascinating that, that what that would mean is that John Mark's dissatisfaction with Paul. Potentially doing something wrong to his family member, John Mark's response is to make life harder for his family member by, by leaving Paul in Barnabas, and I don't know, there's part of me drawn to that because I'm fascinated by, I mean, there's no answer to that question. 

[00:20:34] So whether that's actually going on, I raise it more just in terms of how often do we do that in our own lives that, that in our. Desire to stand for our own view of what's right or wrong. We end up actually causing more damage sometimes in the long run. But, but I like the contrast in this text, if, if just, just to nudge the conversation in if, into this a little deeper, but. 

[00:21:02] John leaves them, but then you have this verse 14 and on the Sabbath day, they went to the synagogue and sat down. So within these, these opening two verses that, that we've read, you've got a kind of separation, but also an attempted coming together, which again, by the end of the passage, we're going to see that, that the, it's really hard to do that coming together, like the, the synagogue Is not overly receptive to some of the work of Paul and Barnabas, but there's a lot going on in these first two verses. 

[00:21:32] There's the, there's, there's fractures of relationships happening within Paul and Barnabas, his own missionary group, but then within their wider community of the synagogue that. Verse 13 and 14, I would forgive anybody of having just kind of blast through it as, Oh, Luke's just telling us where they are, but he's actually pointing towards something, which is going to become a feature of this mission, which is keeping, bear in mind, they were devoted to one another, the, the, the breaking of bread, the fellowship and the prayers, like this is the story of the Holy spirit and acts. 

[00:22:06] And now we're in verse 13 and it's almost, I mean, I'm just wondering, Audrey. Janice, if Luke is sort of turning the spotlight to go, by the way, that, that idealized image of devoted to one another, committed to the teaching and the breaking of bread. That's not easy. You know what I mean? Like these two verses just very subtly speak to, that's not an easy, the unity of the Holy Spirit, the unity of Christ, the gathering around the table in the name of the Lord. 

[00:22:33] These are profoundly. Significant things to the early church. We know they're significant to Paul because of how he theologizes about  

[00:22:41] John: Yeah. No.  

[00:22:42] David: But let's, I mean, can I say it like this? Let's never speak about them as if they're simple. Let's never just go, well, we just need to come around the table. 

[00:22:50] Right. Which I have been guilty of saying myself sometimes. It's as if Luke is just keeping a little tally behind the scenes. Like if you've got ears, listen to this. Look at how hard this is to do. I mean, y I mean, am I over Am I over egging the pudding here or Do you feel that in the text? 

[00:23:06] John: Nope. See, I love the contrast between 13 and 14 because I think it highlights a potential other reason why John may have left. And of course, it helps us with with maybe seeing where we're going in the book of X. 

[00:23:23] So to me, there's a subtle nuancing within the text, David, of moving. There's a contrast where we go from Saul to Paul. 

[00:23:31] So we get, we move from a sort of a Jewish name Saul 

[00:23:37] to the Paul, which is the we've discussed this before. Many people had two names. So John Mark is, a Hebrew name and a Greek name or a 

[00:23:45] Roman name together. Paul and Saul, a very much Hebrew name. He's a Benjamite from the 

[00:23:50] tribe of Benjamin. And of course, one of the most famous Benjamite is Saul, King Saul probably named after him. 

[00:23:57] And then, and then you've got his sort of, his Greek or Hellenized or Roman facing name in Paul. So you, you, you, we've already discussed these juxtapositions. But what's really fascinating as a nuance in the passage is that there is a definite shift in chapter 13 from Saul to Paul. 

[00:24:15] David: mhmm,  

[00:24:16] John: From this moment on he's known as Paul and what's really interesting is we get to see him as Paul 

[00:24:22] David: Mhmm, 
 

[00:24:22] John: context of leading a Gentile proconsul to Jesus. 

[00:24:28] David: mhmm, 
 

[00:24:29] John: All right now hold that thought and then and then I saw this other little nuance where you see when it talks about John Mark in chapter 13. It refers to him primarily as his Hebrew name. So you've got John in chapter 13, verse 5. John was with them as their helper and then verse 13, John left him. And where does John go? 

[00:24:54] John goes not back to Antioch, where is the starting of the mission, but John goes back to Jerusalem. 

[00:25:01] Now, please forgive me if I'm overcooking this, but I think there are too many allusions and nuances within that to ignore. I, I think chap, the early part of chapter 13 is definitely showing that although Paul and Barnabas will go into the synagogue, 

[00:25:16] and in fact that becomes a pattern where they, where they can follow it, there is a definite Gentile trajectory, which Paul is extremely comfortable with. 

[00:25:27] David: mhmm, 
 

[00:25:28] John: Could it be that John Mark is not so comfortable with that. He's not so ready for that. 

[00:25:36] And he's seen now Paul take over. It seems, forgive us if we were cooking that, 

[00:25:42] but also what's Paul's first major action when he takes over, a Roman proconsul gets saved, 

[00:25:49] and then there's a sense in which we're moving towards that. 

[00:25:53] Now, if that feels like it's happened, John Mark might be going, hold on a minute, I, I, I'm not sure I'm in for this. I'm, I'm not sure this is what I want. And, and Luke calls him by his Hebrew name, Yohanan, 

[00:26:07] and sends him back to Yerushalayim, to Jerusalem. 

[00:26:11] So, it, it's, he, he, he retreats from Gentile territory and returns to hardcore Jewish territory. 

[00:26:20] Now, I, I, I think that's a sign of what's coming. I think Dr. Luke is setting us up programmatically to show us there's now going to be a constant tension between a Jewish worldview and a Gentile 

[00:26:34] worldview. And Paul and Barnabas are right at the heart of trying to manage this. Paul becomes the driver in this. 

[00:26:42] And actually, over the next couple of chapters, leading up to a climactic chapter 15 with the Council of Jerusalem, we've now got the Jewish Gentile tension in play. Is John Mark David, is John Mark the first, can I say this language, please forgive me, the first victim of that conversation, 

[00:27:00] is he running away because he's not ready to face this sort of gentile facing conversation that Paul becomes famous for in terms of both his practice and his theological expose? Is that too much, do you think, or is there something in that? 

[00:27:21] David: Oh, I think these sort of conversations, I mean, I joked earlier, but it's episode 63 of acts. So if you're not okay with us musing about these things, you probably bailed out a long time ago. So let's, let's, I, I. I mean, like you, I don't think we could say that is 100 percent categorically what's going on here. 

[00:27:42] However, I think it bodes thinking number one, we know this is a problem with the early church, right? We know that. How do we integrate, and that's what, and that's really some of those things I was alluding to when I said, let's never talk about coming around the table as if it's simple. Let's never just talk about as if that was just that we just like, sure, we'll just lay aside our differences. 

[00:28:02] This is complex human work that needs the Holy Spirit. And even with the Holy Spirit, I think it's still complex holy work. So, but it's interesting that. If I don't want to repeat everything you've said, so, people can go back and re listen if they want to just make sure they definitely capture what you've said. 

[00:28:18] When you come down to the Council in Jerusalem, Council in Jerusalem happens, Paul and Barnabas get sent back to Antioch, right? After some days in Antioch, Paul says to Barnabas, come let us return, this is Acts 15 verse 36. Come let us return and visit the believers in every city where we proclaim the word of the Lord and see how they're doing. 

[00:28:37] Barnabas, so listen to this. Barnabas wanted to take with them John, called Mark. Right. So, so he's reappears and he reappears in Antioch now with them. I don't forgive me because I've scanned ahead and wasn't prepared to talk about this this morning. I, I, I don't know when John arrives in Antioch. Does he come with them from  

[00:28:58] John: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he? 

[00:28:59] does. He does.  

[00:29:00] David: forgive me. That's I was trying my fastest to read through a lot of texts to get to this, this point. So, so he's, he's rejoined this direction. Now they're, they're going to head out further and. Paul decides not to take with them one who deserted them in Pamphylia. The disagreement becomes so sharp, they part company. 

[00:29:18] And then listen to this. Barnabas took Mark with him and sailed away to Cyprus. So to your point, it's interesting that now, John Mark now is willing to, to engage in a Gentile mission. And Luke's introduction to that is, I mean, they fall out. Paul and Barth are going to go their certain ways. It's John called Mark, and then the next time we encounter him, it's Barnabas took Mark. 

[00:29:42] This is exactly the same pattern that we saw with Saul in verse 13. That it's Saul, also known as Paul, but the moment he moves into a Gentile mission, he's now just Paul. He's now just known by his His name in that context. I mean, I mean, I just might be adding frosting to you're already over egged pudding, but So I'm just joking I don't you know, but but I think that these are what you want to look for when you're when you're Supposing something from the text like is there Is there content elsewhere that I can see the same pattern happening? 

[00:30:18] And I would say you are seeing that same pattern happening here. That just, I mean, we have to fill in the blanks because Luke is not giving us so much information. And I think it's a very realistic. Option you're laying down for us there, because we know Peter himself, who spent so much time with Jesus is struggling with the pace the Holy Spirit's working in, so like, I mean, we've got to give John Mark a little bit of a space to go. 

[00:30:45] Maybe he too was like, I don't get what this Paul guy is doing. 

[00:30:50] John: Yeah, yeah. No, I love that. And I love your connection to 15. That's beautiful. And I think that I don't think we're over cooking this, I do think that there's very human and even deeply convictional reasons why John heads for home. and goes back to 

[00:31:09] Jerusalem. And I think he does regain his equilibrium on the conversation. 

[00:31:15] That's why he does return to Antioch with them. I think he has made a shift. And of course what follows after Barnabas takes him, I think affirms that shift and he ends up, according to church tradition, becoming, the chief shepherd or Bishop of Alexandria, 

[00:31:30] the church in Alexandria, which is, absolutely smack bang in the middle of Gentile territory, though it has a phenomenally huge Jewish community as well. So I think something shifts in the trajectory of John Mark, i. e. Mark from chapter 15. But I think in chapter 13, there's a struggle there. David, I know we're coming to the end of this, this podcast, but I want to ask you one more little question about John Mark before we land this. Because we we've alluded to this before is, is if, if we, if we see John Mark potentially as the young man who runs away 

[00:32:06] in Gethsemane uniquely recorded in, Oh, I know Mark's gospel. Is it, is it, Is there a little pattern here? Is there, is there potentially a little weakness that the John Mark who, or the John who runs away in 13 of Acts has also run away before 

[00:32:26] when put under pressure in a garden? Now I could be being terribly disingenuous to an amazing man who becomes the 

[00:32:33] first gospel writer and I hope to bump into him in heaven. 

[00:32:36] So, but but I, there is a gorgeous little nuance there, that, 

[00:32:43] that the young man wearing nothing but a lemon garment following Jesus, they seized him and he fled naked, leaving the garment behind. And Mark's gospel is the only gospel that includes that. We could be overcooking that, but is that a nod from the author that maybe he was in the garden and had run before? What do you think? 

[00:33:05] David: I mean, I mean, it's again, it's fascinating, John. I mean, the kids. And again, we're dealing with ifs and buts at some level. I mean, early church tradition wants to hold Mark as the author of the gospel. Nowhere in the gospel is that stated, so it is not... a bad conversation for Christians to have. I often used to say this to my students, it's okay to ask questions about the authorship of some of the Gospels  

[00:33:30] John: Yeah, sure.  

[00:33:31] David: authors remain anonymous, right? 

[00:33:33] So, you're not disrespecting scripture by going, did Mark write Mark? But, but also the people that were a lot closer to this than us. And to be fair, Mark would be a strange name to choose, to fake, if you were going to fake a gospel author, you would choose someone like Peter or something like that, but Mark, whose reputation prior to the gospel of Mark is he's the guy that abandoned Paul and also broke up Paul and Barnabas. 

[00:34:02] So, I'm, I'm pretty comfortable with the idea of John Mark as the author of Mark's gospel. I've never thought about it from the perspective of his notoriety amongst early Christians is for running away from Paul and, and, and we have this moment where potentially this young man, you know and, and for a long time, the Christians have heard, held that John Mark is the young man. 

[00:34:26] So I love that. I'm just going to add one comment to it. Which is, and I think we've talked about this in an episode in the past if John Mark is, in fact, the young man, it is worth to his rehabilitation pointing out that in chapter 16, the young man reappears and is in Mark's gospel, the first announcer, Well, of resurrection. 

[00:34:53] So, so there's this beautiful kind of sense that you see this in Mark's life multiple times, even for Paul, send John Mark to me. He is useful to me, so, so even if you are a runner away,  

[00:35:05] John: Come on.  

[00:35:06] David: even if you are a runner away, and if your resume involves running away from Jesus and Paul, there's no chance that God's finished with you. 

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