Heidi Franz Host 00:00
I'm thrilled to share that the Parenting to Impress Podcast was just named number 38 in the top two mom podcast. It's an incredible honor, and especially considering there are thousands of mom podcasts out there that you could be listening to, but you choose to sit down with Melanie and I Thank you for being part of this journey with us. For every time that you listen, you share the podcast or the blog with your friends. You pray for this ministry. I am incredibly grateful and I pray that this ministry will encourage you on your parenting journey. Today, we're returning to the archives to listen to one of the most popular podcasts on having meaningful conversations with children. We're going to learn about the differences between instructional talk and relational talk and why we need to pursue both of these, and then how to take advantage of these God-given opportunities to engage in meaningful conversations with your children. I'm excited to share.
01:03
Welcome back to Parenting to Impress, your go-to podcast to learn practical ways to love God and love others and impress this on the hearts of your children. I am your host, Heidi Franz, and I am joined by my dear friend, Melanie Simpson. Two moms who have made a lot of mistakes but have found grace and truth along the way.
Melanie, you don't have to hang around ABCJesusLovesMe.com and ParentingtoImpress.com blog and podcast very long before you're going to hear me talk about Deuteronomy 6:4-9. These verses are the foundational verses for everything we do in this ministry. I love the portion where it talks about impressing the commandments that God has given onto our children. But then the second part of verse 7 commands us to talk about the commandments “when you sit at home, when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up.” I have learned in my parenting journey, I have learned in the research in writing the Preschool Curriculum for ABCJesusLovesMe, that that word talk has a lot of meaning.
Melanie Simpson Co-host 02:10
Yeah, so let's unpack that word talk. I mean, obviously it's important, it's clear in this verse we're supposed to do it. But I think that, as we've done the research for this particular episode, we came across the research that showed there's two basic general categories of talk.
Heidi Franz Host 02:26
You're exactly right, and we named those instructional and relational. Now, instructional is definitely the easiest.
Melanie Simpson Co-host 02:34
It's just talking at your kids. Tie your shoes, don't touch the hot stove. Come back in here, stop hitting your brother.
Heidi Franz Host 02:41
It's necessary, one-sided, started by the parents. It's a very serious talk, to the point and presenting facts that are kids Right.
Melanie Simpson Co-host 02:49
But we know instructional talk is necessary specifically for their spiritual formation, because it begins to lay the foundation of obedience. So first our children are obedient to us and then that translates into obedience to God as they grow and mature in their faith. But the other piece of this is the relational talk. What is that?
Heidi Franz Host 03:11
Relational talk is taking the talk to the next step, to where it is a relationship with the person that you're talking with. So here are some characteristics of relational. First, it's a back and forth conversation between two or more people and everyone is interacting with what was said previously. It can be a creative, silly, fun conversation or it may need to be more serious. Details are included in the talk and the talk includes past, present and future information.
Melanie Simpson Co-host 03:48
I think the trap we fall into as a parent is I take my role as boss very seriously and I spend a lot more time giving instruction than I do looking for those opportunities to have that relational conversation.
Heidi Franz Host 04:11
Because relational conversation takes so much time. Between doing my job and doing dishes, doing laundry, getting everybody where they need to go with my taxi service.
Melanie Simpson Co-host 04:24
There's just not a lot of hours left in the day. So my question is, Heidi, how did you know how to do this, like was this just second nature for you to do the relational conversations?
Heidi Franz Host 04:34
You know, in some ways, it kind of was. I grew up in a family and almost all teachers, almost all teachers and they modeled this so well for me. I can also say that my bachelor's and master's in the education field have definitely taught me more things, but it is really in the research with ABCJesusLovesMe as I was writing the curriculum, and then in parenting I've seen what my kids need and the Holy Spirit's been so good to point out things to me and to see the importance of this relational talk.
Melanie Simpson Co-host 05:10
Okay, so you're telling me it's important, why?
Heidi Franz Host 05:13
First, of all, having relational talk with a child builds their vocabulary. It actually has been proven that preschoolers' IQs are higher when parents use rich and complex language. It also improves early literacy, social skills and emotional maturity. All of these things just from moving from instructional to relational talk.
Melanie Simpson Co-host 05:36
That's amazing. You wouldn't think that just having conversations could do all this but, like you said, the research shows that it does. But my next question then would be that's all great, like who doesn't want smarter kids? But I know from our conversations, our friendship, that we really are after the hearts of our kids, not just the minds. So what does this relational talk look like in terms of coming alongside our children and helping them as they grow as Christians?
Heidi Franz Host 06:05
Obviously the academic side is so important. God isn't just talking about teaching the academics and raising children's IQ. He is talking about sitting at home, walking along the road, lying down and getting up, and talking about the commandments to love God and love others. And this is where I find the relational talk has the most power.
Melanie Simpson Co-host 06:31
When do these conversations happen? We've already established that we have very full lives as moms and wives and employees, and that these do take more time than just the instructional talk. How do we fit this in, Heidi employees, and that these do take more time than just the instructional talk? How do we fit this in, Heidi?
Heidi Franz Host 06:45
The last thing, as moms, we want to hear is one more thing we have to add to our 24-hour day. But that's the difference in that relational talk isn't something that we add, it's something that we do. We have relational talk when we're giving baths, when we're eating, when we're changing diapers, when the little ones are getting dressed. With older ones, when we're in a vehicle, when we're in the grocery store. All of those times are when we can choose to have relational talk. The Holy Spirit just gave me that word “choose.”
Melanie Simpson Co-host 07:24
It is a choice to have these relational texts if we will just take the opportunity. Yeah, for the mom out there who's listening to this and thinking to herself. But what does it actually look like? How does this actually play out in my life? I'm home with my preschooler, we're getting dressed for a play date and I don't know how to have a relational conversation with her. How do I do this, Heidi?
Heidi Franz Host 07:45
That's a great question, because it's so easy to know the facts, but how do you actually implement them into your day? Okay, so let's use this as an example and first of all, let me tell you what it would look like with instructional talk. The instructional talk would be put on your dress, put on your shoes, fix your socks, pick up your toys. That would just be the basic talk for that little girl getting ready for a play date. The relational talk would be would you like to wear your pink dress or your yellow dress for your play date? The pink dress has a really pretty rainbow on it and after the little girl gets that dress on, you can say does it have good twirl power? And let her twirl around, because little girls love to do that. Then talk about how she is going to have a lot of fun when her friend Sally comes over to play and that she is a good friend, and you know that she is going to be a good host to Sally.
Melanie Simpson Co-host 08:47
Okay, so moving beyond just the instructions, like you said, the do this, do that and beginning to kind of process with her with lots of language what's happening right now, what's going to happen in the future, who she is I mean, you talked about being a friend and hosting. That's beyond just what we're doing. That's who you are.
Heidi Franz Host 09:09
Exactly. And then I would also say it's important about how you talk to her as far as your body language, so that when you are talking to her, get on her eye level, face to face, so that she feels that intimacy with you, instead of just that authoritative person standing on top of her giving instructions, and then have active listening. Show her with your body that you are listening to every word she's saying instead of being on your phone. That's the one that gets me every time.
09:47
And the Holy Spirit will say, Heidi, put it down. They are only going to be little for a little bit of time and enjoy this time. So how you talk to them is just as important as what you say to them during relational talk.
Melanie Simpson Co-host 10:02
So I have a question. I'm thinking back to when mine were little. There were times when I would pose a question or ask their opinion, and it was crickets chirping.
Heidi Franz Host 10:15
So what we need to remember is that it takes kiddos longer time to process and to think they're not going to have immediate responses because they're still learning the vocabulary to support what they want to say to us. What I've learned to do is to give children wait time, and that is where I ask a question. I give them several seconds to process and then to figure out the vocabulary that they want. Another point is to make sure that as adults, we don't interrupt the kids and we don't assume what they're going to say in conversations they don't necessarily have, like you said, a full vocabulary to express themselves.
Melanie Simpson Co-host 11:19
What do we do with fragmented sentences or incomplete sentences? If our goal is to build vocabulary, do we just let them keep talking that way, or what do we do with that?
Heidi Franz Host 11:30
Heidi, one of the things that I encourage parents to do is to help kids with proper sentence structure. So let's say that a child says me want it, Then after them say I want the cookie, and sometimes I would have my kiddos repeat it, but oftentimes I would just say it correctly so that they heard it and then as their development and vocabulary caught up, they would automatically roll into that proper sentence structure.
Melanie Simpson Co-host 12:05
Okay, so I'm not forcing it down their throats. It's okay that they're talking that way. It will come with time.
Heidi Franz Host 12:10
And I'm not going to discipline them over it. It is developmentally appropriate for toddlers to talk the way toddlers do, but I am going to encourage them in that. Now, with that said, when I have older kids, I don't allow them to use baby talk. I will use the one-liner of I will be happy to listen to you when you use your big girl voice.
Melanie Simpson Co-host 12:38
We're also not reinforcing it by parroting back to them that baby talk when they are babies. As a user of the ABC Jesus Loves Me curriculum, when my kiddos were little, I came across the word pragmatics. I had not heard that word before and your curriculum does such a beautiful job of fleshing that out in interacting with your kids. But could you just explain it to the listeners now, who maybe don't have that curriculum in front of them? What's pragmatics?
Heidi Franz Host 13:07
When you think pragmatics, think emotions, think facial expressions, think cues that are given with your hand. We all know what they mean, but kids don't always know what they mean. They have to be taught.
Melanie Simpson Co-host 13:23
I mean we don't come out of the womb understanding pragmatics necessarily.
Heidi Franz Host 13:26
Exactly, and so part of relational talk is making sure that you are using your voice to reflect what you want to say. You're using your hands and your face especially your mouth and your eyebrows. Teach kids to focus on these when they are talking to somebody, and we go right back to that two-way conversation, face-to-face.
Melanie Simpson Co-host 13:53
Let's jump back to our scenario. We have our daughter. Her friend has come over, conflict has arisen, some conflict over some toys, and their play date wraps up. The little friend goes home. You're left with a disgruntled child, maybe sad or angry, whatever the emotion is. How would we walk through instructional talk and relational talk in that scenario, right?
Heidi Franz Host 14:16
Instructional talk would be you're fine, get over it. Why don't you be grateful for your play date, where relational talk would sit down with your daughter? Maybe you're holding her in your lap and you say that didn't quite go as you wanted it to, did it. Tell me what happened and there might be tears and that's okay. And your daughter maybe is even in the wrong and you know that. But this is the time for her to be able to speak how she's feeling, for you to validate that she is sad, but also to speak truth into the situation. So let's imagine that the little girl did not handle herself well.
15:05
This is a time in relational talk where you would say what could you have done differently? Maybe the little girl needs to seek forgiveness from her friend, to say hey, how would you like to ask forgiveness? Would you like to call her on the phone? I'm willing to drive you to go and talk to your friend. Whatever you need to do to reconcile that friendship In the reverse.
15:30
Maybe it's a situation where the little girl was not at fault and she got her feelings hurt and those are valid and, like we talked about in the last episode on this podcast of Lies, we Believe we need to help our daughters and our sons call out those lies, name them and then claim the truth. So sitting down with your daughter to be able to say I know you feel like you don't have any friends. That is a lie, because you do have friends and maybe name the other friends that she has. But then to go back to the truth of what God says about that little girl, that little girl was created in the image of God. She is beautifully created in the image of God. God made her special with a purpose, a plan and hope. And you speak those truths over her. And that's the difference between instructional talk of commands and one-sided conversation versus relational talk, where you build relation and trust.
Melanie Simpson Co-host 16:40
Yeah, and I love how you directed that conversation. So it wasn't just about the situation or behavior, but you really broaden the scope. So it was about who she is as a follower of Christ, even if she hasn't given her life to Christ. Raising them in a home that is pursuing Christ, giving her a vocabulary to talk about that it's such a beautiful model of how we go to the Lord in our prayer life. So, as we wrap up this conversation, are there specific encouragements that you can leave moms with as they begin to do this in their own homes?
Heidi Franz Host 17:15
First of all, Melanie, I want to say there is a place for instructional talk. There is a point where you teach obedience and instructional talk is how that obedience occurred. I'm not denouncing instructional talk as a whole. But I am saying that relational talk takes the communication, the relationship, the trust factor, the education factor to a whole, other level, and then the next thing that I would say is that it takes time. This is not something you're going to immediately be able to do just because you found out from the Parenting to Impress podcast that it's important. Instead, it is a process, but God is faithful. I encourage you to just keep trying and with practice and with time, this will be something that will become second nature for you.
Announcer 18:13
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