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Anybody Everybody Tottenham
Anybody Everybody Tottenham
A Delicate Flower on Top (of Google Search) - Karen Neill, Zenith Motorcycles
Second episode in a row of women breaking the mould and working in male dominated fields. Karen is extra special as the only female owner of a motorcycle garage in the UK. She comes from a long lineage of Tottenham residents and like me loves everything about our neighbourhood. You know me, I love a story of the creation of a new business and the small triumphs and challenges. Hope as always you feel inspired!
Zenith Motorcycle website (blog is on there): https://www.zenithmotorcycles.co.uk/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/zenithmotorcycles/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/zenithmotorcycl
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Jamila 0:05
Hi I'm Jamila and anybody everybody Tottenham is a bi monthly podcast, introducing the good people of Tottenham to you. In today's episode, I'm talking to Karen Neill from zenith motorcycle. And we're talking about her family's history in Tottenham, how she learned to ride a bike way too early. And then her path into the whole motorcycle industry. And finally starting her own garage. Hope you enjoy. In the history part, Karen briefly forgets the name of the motorcycle queen of Hackney. The motorcycle queen of Hackney is called Beryl Swain. And if you go on my Insta, I got a couple of pictures also of the other people that she mentioned in the history part of women and motorcycling. So today on the pod, I've got Karen Neil from Zenith motorcycles. Welcome, Karen.
karen 1:04
Thank you very much for having me. Jamila.
Jamila 1:05
Thank you. Karen knows the structure. So and I read a little bit about you. So we always start with the connection to Tottenham and yours is actually really long standing. So can you tell us a little bit about that?
karen 1:19
Well, my family go back about 200 years in Tottenham. My great, great, great grandfather, Thomas Hawkins came from Italy. And ended up in a poor school, I think he came over at the age of about eight as an immigrant, and ended up in sort of a poor school in Clarkenwell and then somehow ended up becoming a builder. And he ended up in Tottenham as basically a construction worker building, sort of Tottenham housing. And then he ended up running the company somehow, he ended up being a really, really successful man. And he's settled here in the Tewkesbury area, which is if anyone knows that area, it's just off hermitage road. And yeah, and my family. I'm the last one here, basically.
Jamila 2:22
Okay, so did you did you know your great grandparents when you grew up or definitely your grandparents?
karen 2:29
I knew my great grandmother, my great grandmother, I knew her and that was her grandfather. She lived to 100 and she stayed in Tottenham her whole life.
Jamila 2:40
So what what kind of stories that she and your grandparents tell you about what Tottenham was like in their childhood and what they kind of remember,
karen 2:48
I didn't really talk to Rune much about Tottenham, she always used to say, "Don't bother about the past look to the future. There's no point talking about the past it's gone look to the future" but my granddad's her son, he. I mean, he loved Tottenham. He absolutely loved Tottenham. So he lived, they lived in an Avenue Road. My granddad used to tell me that there was a convent in St. Anne's road at the end of Avenue riad. And as kids, they used to be terrified of the nuns and stuff like that. And his father, my great grandfather used to send him every Friday night down to the Woodbury pub to get pie and mash and jelly eels, and bring it home for the family and stuff like that. Yeah, I mean, my granddad ended up working in Tottenham. He worked for jack motorcycles in Lansdowne Road. And then, when the war broke out, he ended up doing war work, munitions work, where he met my grandmother, then he was sent to war. So yeah, I mean, my granddad's it's
Jamila 4:02
so we already have the motorcycles in there then. So it's also a family tradition. You know, I was thinking how common were motorcycles back in the day?
karen 4:13
Well, basically I know this is gonna sound so anoraki but obviously it's my my one of my many areas of interest, but it's my career. The for those of you that know motorcycles and stuff. The V twin engine was actually invented in Tottenham. So Tottenham really is the home of motorcycling. And there's going to be so many people that say no, no, no. Harley Davidson invented the V twin engine. They did not - Jack motorcycles, and zenith invented the V Twin Engine about I think it was about five years before Harley Davidson even existed. So really, Tottenham is is the founding stone for British motorcycles. And yeah, we've just went on to make their gradual engine stuff like that. That is sometimes it's still used for Speedway motorcycles like 60 years after they went out of business. So yeah,
Jamila 5:19
but how common was it? Was it affordable for normal people?
karen 5:24
It was affordable for normal people. Yes. We had quite a thriving motorcycle community here. In the early days. We had the queen of motorcycle racing that came from just up the road in Hackney. She was literally the queen of motorcycle racing. Her name has just momentarily escaped me, which is really bad. There is actually a mural of her at Walthamstow Market. We had Harringay Speedway where the Haringey stadium with the shopping mall is now so yeah, I mean, people would get around on their little, little single cylinder engine bike so yeah, it was it was quite a we were quite community of motorcycle interest here.
Jamila 6:09
So interesting that you mentioned a woman because I was wondering as well like what, you know how has been over the years the participation of women and motorcycling.
karen 6:19
It has been epic, but very, very quietly documented. Mostly as riders. It's interesting women really took to motorcycle riding more than the engineering side of it. And the maintenance side of it. You know, there's been some amazing travels and you know around the world journeys and you've got Jenny Tynemouth, who is a British Superbike racer. She was also the fastest woman around the island of Man TT course. You've got Maria Costello again. Racing Isle of man. So yeah, you've got - we have got, you know, we've got women. We've got women. We've got the girls.
Jamila 7:15
Yeah, because I was wondering if at one stage, motorbiking has a little bit of the bad boy image, if that was maybe something that kind of pushed women to the side to not participate in it, you know that it was seen as not proper.
karen 7:32
Certainly, during sort of the early stages of motorcycling, the early history of motorcycling, it was believed that a woman's brain would explode if they went over 10 miles an hour. And this is, this is this is true. That Yeah, at one point a female brain would explode. So they kind of felt that you know, us as delicate flowers as we are. (Definitely) our little delicate brains would pop should we should we go over 10 mile an hour but obviously, you have rebels in everything. You have ground breakers in everything. You have women in every walk of life that will just say, let's see if my brain pops or let's see what happens and you can't hold us back. You can't hold us down. And yeah, it's it's, you know, there's some amazing if you guys want to Google like early, late Victorian women motorcycling early, Edwardian women motorcycle. There's some great pictures of women in their sort of Edwardian gear, you know long dresses and little small bustles on early motorcycles.
Jamila 8:42
So when did you learn to ride?
karen 8:46
Oh dear, very, very, - I'm not going to say how old I was because people will raise their eyebrows and frown and sort of, say my parenting, upbringing, (negligent!) very early in life, very early in life. And I got my first bike at 16 The minute I turned 16 I went out I took my test. Got my first little 50 cc and my 17th birthday - I passed my full motorcycle test and went out and bought a vintage 250 triumph.
Jamila 9:21
And both parents were okay with it?
karen 9:23
No, no. Dad was like the one pushing me. You know, "do it. Do it. Do it. You're 16 You need independence." I went to school and college in Westminister. So like my commute every morning from the age of 12 was ridiculous. So the minute I turned 16 my dad was like "just do it. Just do it. You can just commute to school, you'll be your own person." And my mum was because I'm really I'm naturally clumsy person. Oh God, this isn't going to end well. But yeah,
Jamila 9:56
but from him you then also got into the repair side and
karen 10:01
yeah, I mean, my granddad, my granddad was an engineer, he was a metal worker. He was always tinkering with stuff. He didn't stop tinkering. I mean, he had his shed and what you know what happens in the shed or what he breaks in the shed stays in the shed sort of thing. And I would be there from a young age, you know, tinkering with stuff with him. And then when my dad got his, his bikes, I was always on hand when he was repairing his and working on his and then the minute I got mine, my dad said to me, "right, you're 16, you've got your bike, you better fix it. If you don't have a job. You're a student." So I did. I did.
Jamila 10:46
But when I was reading your blog, which you abandoned by now, it seemed that you didn't train though, as a mechanic. Initially, you you went out and so why not? Why not?
karen 11:02
Well, I went to university. Did Computing and Engineering,
Jamila 11:08
Ok. Engineering - good.
karen 11:10
Yeah. Which I absolutely adored I, I, you know, thought, Okay, I'm gonna, but then I'm not a person that can be in an office, it is not possible, I can't do it. I tried a couple of times, and I just can't do it. I'm also I'm dyslexic and dyspraxic, as well. So I find working with words incredibly hard and working, sort of my brain doesn't work when it's restricted on the computer screen or something like that. I can create anything, I can think of something and I can build it, I can make it I can. So at that point, formal training, as in motorcycle qualification, motorcycle technician qualification is not at that point. I didn't have any. So basically, I am completely self taught.
Jamila 11:59
And you then worked in other garages?
karen 12:02
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Jamila 12:04
And 2013, you started your own garage, you kind of hinted that you didn't like working for other people. That it was not - do you want to talk about, like, what the problem was? What did you want it to create? What kind of change was it that you wanted?
karen 12:23
The first problem was, I knew I would never as a female, I knew, I would never be allowed to really flourish, and really put my, my ideas, my abilities into action. And also, I didn't like the way my other bosses and co workers did things. Because in every industry you have, you have to have ethics, you have to have morals, but I find in certain places in the motorcycle industry, there are none. Okay, and I am not, I don't have the ethics of somebody that just wants a customer once, and then you basically, you know, take them for everything you can in that one visit. I want them to come back, and I want them to be my customer for 10 years. And that's the way a successful business works. It's not just the one hit. It's the repeat customer, you know, and I just couldn't stand it. I couldn't stand it. i It made me miserable.
Jamila 13:31
And how did you go about starting your own garage?
karen 13:34
Well, I saved for a very, very, very, very long time. And it's going to sound strange, but my my beloved uncle Ronnie, he passed away that year, and he left me some money. And the proviso in his will that money would be that I used it for my future.
Jamila 14:00
Did he know what you wanted to do?
karen 14:03
He did. He did to really use it wisely. And so I opened the shop, much to my partner's distress, I opened the shop.
Jamila 14:12
So it was that easy to just open a shop. Where did you find the people? Because or did you have people straight away?
karen 14:20
I had Gary who I'd worked with previously, I've known Gary since I was 16. And he's always been like my motorcycling mentor, in a way. And I said to Gary, Gary was the same as me. He hated the way we were working before absolutely couldn't handle it. And I always used to say to him, "you know, when I have my own place, Gary, come with me Come with me." He always said, "Yeah, I'll be there in a heartbeat. I'll be there in a heartbeat. I'll be there in a heartbeat." And then when I went to him, and I said, "shall we?" And he said, "Yeah, let's do it". (Excellent.) So I had Gary and I had Laszlo part time, and we opened the shop. I mean, I spent about a month fixing the building up because the building had been empty for about two years. I learned, I did it mostly myself, help from my dad and staff and some friends and just I learned to do everything plumbing and you name it. I learned to do it.
Jamila 15:16
So when was the date? When is your birthday? Because it's gonna be next year big birthday.
karen 15:21
yeah, it was the 19th of September. Yes.
Jamila 15:28
So you've got a little bit of time to plan the birthday party.
karen 15:32
Yeah, we're gonna have a birthday party.
Jamila 15:34
What are some highlights of the almost last 10 years and some of the difficulties.
karen 15:42
I I have done some amazing things in the last 10 years. I mean, I didn't, I didn't expect it to go quite as smoothly and as easily as it did. I mean, when I say easy, people that know me know, I'm a workaholic. So it's owning your own business is like having a child, you need to feed it, you need to educate it, you need to give everything to it. Literally every soul of yourself ever fibre of yourself, you need to give to it. And so it's taken a lot from me. But it's given me so much. I mean, I've I've won awards, won the Britain's biking hero
Jamila 16:29
Why are you a biking hero?
karen 16:31
For my ethics, for the fundraising for charity, for my continued, you know, reliability and honesty and my input into the motorcycling community. I won a lifetime achievement award, which I was a bit unsure about because I was only 43. What are they saying?
Jamila 16:58
I was gonna ask as well, like, I read a couple of times. Is it still true that you're the only female owner of a motorcycle garage in the UK?
karen 17:08
Yeah. Without a male business partner .Yeah.
Jamila 17:10
Okay, so there's somebody else out there with a partner. Are you training up? Like some female apprentices?
karen 17:17
I am trying to, but it's taken me 10 years to get one apprentice. (Okay). A female apprentice. And I've had all the local schools in Haringey, they all know about me. And if anyone shows any interest, let me know, put them through to me. One of my customers actually put me in touch with his cousin. And she's, she's doing well. She's doing really well. She comes in. She's at college three days a week and she comes in the workshop two days a week. (Nice) really doing really well. She's 17 And I think she's gonna have a good career ahead of her.
Jamila 17:56
When you were working before, were there other female mechanics?
karen 18:01
Very few and far between I yet to have ever worked with one. There are. Like I mentioned before Jenny Tynemouth, she up up north, she has a shop with her business partner, and they run a motorcycle shop together. There are one or two, but there are not many. But I always say to people, it's not necessarily sexist, because it is a hard job. A lot of men wouldn't do this job. You know, it's a lot of heavy lifting. It's greasy. It's dirty. It's frustrating. It's annoying. It's, you know, like any job it has its downsides. But I do think that the girls aren't encouraged to go into one would call it blue collar work. But yeah, I think that is an issue.
Jamila 18:56
Oh, so we talked about some of the highlights what were the challenges?
karen 19:01
Uhm, what were the challenges? The challenges were waiting for six months in an empty shop with no customers just waiting, waiting, waiting. When I opened Zenith, I didn't have one single customer, not one. And I just waited, I bought a book called How to get to the top of Google search. And that was my obsession. I built my own website. I learned how to do it. And I just became obsessed with getting my website to the top of Google search. And the day that I woke up in the morning, looked at my phone. Every morning, I'd wake up typing my you know, zenith motorcycles and on motorcycle shop London. I'd be like second page, and I could see it gradually creeping up one day I did it. Bang. I was there at the top. That was the day the phone started ringing. Oh, that was, that was tough. I mean, there were days where I thought this is you know, I could see the bank account going down and down and down. I just thought this isn't going to work but
Jamila 20:00
So now you're and you're mot is, but that was also the MOT thing came later. What was it in the beginning?
karen 20:08
We were just mainly repairs and sales.
Jamila 20:11
Okay. So do you remember when you sold your first bike?
karen 20:17
Of course, once the customer left, myself and Gary literally Tangoed around the workshop together. Yeah, we just couldn't believe it. Couldn't believe it.
Jamila 20:32
So getting to the top of Google search was like one step to move the business forward. Were there any other moments that slowly it got more and more?
karen 20:43
Yeah, I think when people started coming in, when people did start, they could see that. I and my, Gary, we were serious about customer service, and were serious bikers and that we did actually know what we're talking about. And the minute people see that in you, their confidence, just, it just clicks. And that was like, you could say that they were taking us seriously because that I think that was my biggest fear. People aren't going to take me seriously as a woman. They're not going to take me seriously. You know?
Jamila 21:19
And so do you have to do certain things? Do you have like to wear your biker uniform or something?
karen 21:27
We've got we've got our zenith T shirts, and as anything nowadays, we're always in uniform. And, you know, we're displaying the company, we are the company, the company is us.
Jamila 21:38
And would you ever refuse to sell a bike to someone? If you think like they clearly wouldn't be able to handle it?
karen 21:46
I have done. Yeah, I have done. We, I've got a really, I look at everybody, it doesn't matter who they are. I look at everyone, and I go if they were my son, or my daughter, or my husband, or my father, or my sister, you know, my Auntie, what do I want my arm to eat? On a bike knowing that she wasn't ready for it. So I look at every client as if they were a member of my family. And think if that was member of my family, would I be okay with them doing that? That's why I'm never going to be rich.
Jamila 22:29
Well or maybe you just have to - how have you expanded? So you've got the MOT thing. What other sides to your business did you add?
karen 22:39
The workshop has just gone completely. I mean, that is the main focus of our business is the workshop. And I I've got six technicians now from one, six technicians full time, we amazingly only use social media. As - we don't advertise apart from we don't really advertise on social media. Our social media is just sort of us doing daft staff really.
Jamila 22:39
Do you have a tiktok yet?
karen 23:11
No. Do you know what I'm a bit scared of tiktok? I think I've not reached the Tik Tok thing yet.
Jamila 23:17
Is there? Is there still a place for motorbikes nowadays, that we're all moving away from?
karen 23:25
Absolutely. There is still a place for motorcycles and it's something that I'm fighting at the moment. Motorcycles are really low pollutants, very low pollutants, they are part of the answer, particularly in London to the climate emergency. You know, there's there's overwhelming evidence, regardless of what certain local authorities feel about it. Electric for me isn't an option. The technology isn't there. We still have to use fossil fuels to charge which isn't an answer. You know, we don't have in the UK we don't have a massive alternative energy for electricity yet. But then we've also got the problem of batteries. Yeah, a lot of people are not aware of what happens to these batteries after the end of life. And we are basically at some point going to be walking on piles on piles of highly explosive, highly polluting batteries, because there is no feasible disposal for them at the moment. No,
Jamila 24:31
I remember my dad said ages ago he said like he doesn't understand why they went for the electric. He thought they should go for water.
karen 24:40
Yeah, me and your dad should go out for a beer because he's absolutely right. Absolutely right. That that is for me. That is a power source that should have been and still hasn't really been looked at. Going to in 10 years. 20 years. 30 years, we are going to have this huge crisis of batteries that we cannot dispose of. And it's very short sighted.
Jamila 25:06
Did you have some more ideas for for the future of zenyth?
karen 25:10
In the future I would love to expand my shop. You know, I've often thought about opening a second branch and stuff like that, but I can't give my dedication to two branches. I can't be in two places at once and for me customer service, and doing everything right 100% right is the most important thing.
Jamila 25:33
So you need to build up your apprentices like somebody.
karen 25:36
I've got really good apprentices. I've got Aiden, who's been with me, he came for work experience. And when he was 16, and he's now 21. He never left. Yeah, I've got Lila. I've also got Collodi who is senior technician. I've got Bernie as a senior technician. I've still got Laszlo with me. nearly 10 years later. Yeah. And I would love to expand you know, maybe at some point, get a bigger premises, keep one premises, but bigger and do more.
Jamila 26:11
Okay. Do you ever like sponsor like races and events sponsored by garages maybe?
karen 26:19
But that's not my focus in what I do with my business sort of sponsorship stuff is more Haringey based, I am a passionate believer in fixing what's broken, where I live and where I come from.
Jamila 26:36
So what are you supporting / sponsoring?
karen 26:39
We've got this big, you know, economic struggle coming on. And I'm, I'm an animal lover. I've seen some new stories about people surrendering their pets because they can't afford to feed them and stuff. So I'm thinking about doing a Haringey Pet Food Bank base, which is gonna get donations of pet food. And people come in and and pick up some pet foods, so they don't have to surrender their pets. You know, that's one thing. I support a couple of Tottenham food banks. There's one in broad lane, and I get really upset every week I see the queue getting bigger and bigger. So every week I drop off some stuff there. I am involved in various community groups. I'm you know, I do to be honest, I spend most of my time, my downtime doing community stuff.
Jamila 27:35
Yeah. Can you tell us a little bit about during the COVID time because I feel like on your Instagram, I saw a post where you were really proud. You got like some kind of certificate.
karen 27:49
During COVID, obviously, we were classed as an essential business. (You were?) Yes. (Oh, nice.) So I, myself, one member of my staff and my partner, we didn't actually experience lockdown, like most other people did, because I was still working. And I was open only really for emergency services. Key workers. Yeah, we had doctors, nurses, ambulance drivers, fire people, police, military, at some point using our services because they needed to get to work. Every other bike shop in London really was shut. And we were like the only one open. And so I had people coming from all over London to get out of trouble with their bikes. And then I think it was like in the second month in April, I think it was - I joined the COVID community response group that we were delivering pulse oximeters to COVID patients to try and ease the burden on the NHS and to prevent hypoxia deaths at home, which was one of the biggest statistics of people dying of COVID was that they were at home, they didn't know that they were sick and well they knew they were sick but how sick and we kind of the doctor that arranged that organized it she contacted the bike sheds, the bike sheds, which is a, it's a bar, it's a restaurant, it's a cafe, community motorcycle community hub. They organized, they put requests out for volunteer riders, I volunteered and I spent the last three years riding all over London, delivering life saving equipment to people, victims of COVID-19 and I'm still doing it today.
Jamila 30:00
Huh Okay, shall we move on to some some happy things like some top tips?
karen 30:06
Top Tips for Tottenham okay Top Tips Tottenham: Bruce Castle Museum it's a must if you haven't been there you have to go there. It's not a massive Museum. It is a stunning building in Bruce Castle Park. It is an ancient building going back to Robert the Bruce and beyond. It's a great museum to get your you know, get you a little bit of local Tottenham history. They've got some amazing things in there. They used to have a jack motorcycle Speedway motorcycle in there. I don't know if it's still there. They've also got the Tottenham records upstairs. Newspapers and stuff. You have to make an appointment to go in there to see them but it's just amazing. It depends what you'd like to do. There is something for everyone in Tottenham. You've got the railway walk you can go walk from Haringey all through Alexandra Palace up to Highgate woodlands walk. Where else can you go? If you want to go out for a meal? You've got one of the oldest Indian restaurants in Haringey you've got the paramount in Wood Green. You've got great restaurants in Turnpike Lane. Another old restaurant Penang Satay, amazing place.
Jamila 31:15
Oh yeah, Malaysian, no?
karen 31:19
Amazing place, absolutely. I've been going there since I was I don't know how old. As a kid my dad used to take me there. Tottenham marshes hidden gem I think we could call Tottenham marshes. Beautiful, absolutely stunning. The you've got the canal, you've got the Lea. You can go to Markfield Park catch the Lea there and just walk and walk and walk. You can walk all the way to Stratford or cycle whatever you want to do. I can go on and on, you know for hours.
Jamila 31:48
Any sports or any? Is there any motorcycle things? Is there like a cafe where all the rockers hang out?
karen 31:55
No, not in Tottenham not in Haringey. Most just pop to my shop for a cup of tea and coffee. We don't mind that at all. Okay, it's kind of become a bit of a hangout for people that don't necessarily want anything, but just want to grab a coffee and
Jamila 32:09
is it like officially a cafe or it's just like you've got a coffee maker?
karen 32:14
No it's just me and a coffee machine and a kettle mostly (okay) But yeah, people just pop in and hang out. Have a chat with other people there. You know, the customers that are there. shoot the breeze. Yeah. We are kind of a community hub now.
Jamila 32:29
Okay, so I shall link your Instagram. You are on Facebook, but I don't I'm not really on Facebook. You've got a Twitter as well. Yeah. And what's going to happen with your blog? Are you going to continue?
karen 32:43
I'm going to start it again. Yeah, I mean, the shop just kind of took my life over. But I am going to restart my blog. Yes. That is something I am going to do very, very soon.
Jamila 32:55
And then the tiktok, obviously,
karen 32:58
yeah, I'm gonna take your, I'm going to take your advice, and I'm gonna tik tok.
Jamila 33:03
Good, good, nice. I'm gonna follow you.
karen 33:05
I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna swallow it and do it.
Jamila 33:08
So thank you very much for this interview.
karen 33:11
My pleasure. It's been absolutely amazing.
Jamila 33:15
So I think we've got a couple of calls to action in this episode. So if you're a motorcyclists, that's maybe a place to check out. I really liked the idea of the pet food bank. So maybe if somebody else is interested in that, maybe you could reach out and make it work. And the third one was like maybe any young people, preferably girls, but as she said, she also has the other apprentice that she got from a work experience. So that might be a cool thing as well to kind of get started. All right, hope you enjoyed that. I hope you enjoyed today's episode, learned something new. And let that Tottenham love grow. Take care. And until next time, bye
Transcribed by https://otter.ai