Cycling Oklahoma
Cape Epic Recap Ep2 - Saxby & Ryan
Join us as we delve into the exciting world of endurance cycling, focusing on our experience in the challenging Cape Epic race. Our latest episode offers valuable insights and practical tips to boost your fitness journey, whether you're training for a race or simply looking to enhance your daily exercise routine. We explore topics ranging from nutrition tricks like using table salt and sugar for fuel, to the mental strength required for success.
We cover the essentials of endurance cycling, discussing topics such as nutrition, hydration, strength training, and mobility workouts. Learn about the effectiveness of energy gels and hydration mixes for long rides, as well as recovery methods like cold plunges and saunas. Beyond physical preparation, we emphasize the importance of a positive mindset and the supportive cycling community.
As we reflect on our adventures, we discuss the power of partnerships and shared goals in overcoming challenges and achieving growth. Gear enthusiasts will appreciate our insights into mountain bike setups and ride comfort. Join us on this journey where every pedal stroke contributes to our larger narrative.
Join us as we delve into the exciting world of endurance cycling, focusing on our experience in the challenging Cape Epic race. Our latest episode offers valuable insights and practical tips to boost your fitness journey, whether you're training for a race or simply looking to enhance your daily exercise routine. We explore topics ranging from nutrition tricks like using table salt and sugar for fuel, to the mental strength required for success.
We cover the essentials of endurance cycling, discussing topics such as nutrition, hydration, strength training, and mobility workouts. Learn about the effectiveness of energy gels and hydration mixes for long rides, as well as recovery methods like cold plunges and saunas. Beyond physical preparation, we emphasize the importance of a positive mindset and the supportive cycling community.
As we reflect on our adventures, we discuss the power of partnerships and shared goals in overcoming challenges and achieving growth. Gear enthusiasts will appreciate our insights into mountain bike setups and ride comfort. Join us on this journey where every pedal stroke contributes to our larger narrative.
always forget what. What is up? Cycling oklahoma. Thank you for tuning in for another episode, and this one is ape epic uh 2.0. So this will be the follow-up episode to the one that you just listened to. If you have not listened to that, please go back and do. Um, it was a good story. We have a lot of fun stories inside of that and alan did a great job interviewing me and saxby about that. So if you have not listened to it, please go back and do that.
Speaker 1:This one is a little bit more in the weeds about kind of how we prepped and prepared and got stuff set up and trained and our nutrition strategy and those kinds of things. So it's not quite as much of a storytelling episode as the last one, but hopefully you enjoy it. Hopefully you find some nuggets. I'm sure there will be some things in here that people listen to and think that we did correctly and or incorrectly, may have some questions or follow-ups. So if you do, please let me know. I would love to dive into it a little bit more in detail. We kind of kept it a little bit more surface level as far as some of the details of the nutrition and the recovery therapies that we used and did, and so we wanted to keep this one kind of short. So, if you enjoyed it, please let me know if you have questions about what we did and how we did it. We would love to share that more in detail, but we had a lot of good feedback from the first episode People that I did not know, that listened to the episode and or people that don't listen to.
Speaker 1:Very many of them gave us some really cool feedback and enjoyed it. So thank you so much for listening, thank you so much for being part of our journey, uh, through this really fun adventure that we had, and I just really want to encourage everyone to go play bikes, go hang out with your friends and enjoy whatever you're doing, and if it's a bike packing weekend, I know we have rule of three and all kinds of really fun stuff coming up this springtime with all kinds of different events, and you, you know the crit race is going on at wheeler. The crit race is going on and in tulsa there's. There's just a lot going on and I really hope you get out and enjoy this. I don't know what your cape epic adventure is, but I hope you find it and it could be running your first 5k or walking around the block, you know, four times a week. I don't know what it is, but get out and do it, you know really push yourself and enjoy yourself and share it with others. That's the best part about this whole entire fitness journey and ride. So I hope you get out there. I hope you find your Cape Epic. I hope you. I don't really care if you succeed at it or not, but just signing up and going and doing it is is a success and it's makes for a good story and a good time and a good memory. So get out there, enjoy life, go play bikes with your friends and thank you so much for tuning in. If you want to be a part of this podcast, you have a story to tell. You have your own Cape Epic journey that you would like to share with everyone. Please let me know. I would love to get you on here. Like I said, we have some really cool guests that I'm trying to get nailed down, uh, in the next couple of episodes, working hard on that. So stay tuned and if you have suggestions, tips, feedback, I would love to hear it. And, um, yeah, just go hang out with each other, smile and go play bikes. Have a great week.
Speaker 1:One last thing before I forget if you have not checked out cycling Oklahoma yet, please go do so. It's a great resource page. I have a lot of good resources coming on that soon. You can download routes, gravel routes, and all the mountain bike trails that I can find are listed on there as well. It doesn't cost you anything.
Speaker 1:Ride with GPS account is free. Do the free one, just join the team. It's very simple, very straightforward. You'll see it. With that, you'll get some extra features, and I really want this to become a resource for our adventuring folks out there to uh find new routes, find new adventures and uh get some good resources. So if you have tips for that as well, please let me know. But please go check out cycling Oklahomacom and uh download a new route. If you have a favorite route that's not on there, shoot it over to me so we can upload it and share it with the community. All right, zach, we did our interview with Alan about Cape Epic and there was a few things that we wanted to maybe touch on a little bit more, or the thing is, this Cape Epic story and saga could be hours of conversation, yeah, so we're trying to get it as much out as possible, but then also be as concise and not let bore people to death. So we had a few topics.
Speaker 2:This is the boring episode. This is the boring episode, right? Yeah, so there's going to be a few things that we just like maybe wanted to hit on a little bit more or discuss between the two of us that we've discussed and that didn't get brought up when we chatted with Alan. So I'll let you lead it. Fun and quite a good interviewer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like you had mentioned, I did want to spend some more time talking about the lead-up to the race, that for us being essentially the day we registered until we got on the plane, not necessarily so much the training aspect, but all of the little things that add up to the much bigger picture, and not for our own enjoyment but for the edification of our listeners, so that, you know, maybe they're not going to the Cape Epic, but they're going to Leadville or they're going to their version of the Cape Epic, which could be, you know, the Mid-South 50 or whatever it is, so they could kind of glean some of the knowledge that I've learned from you and apply it to their own cycling pursuits.
Speaker 2:So I do have a few bullet points here I did want to touch on with you, the first being nutrition. You know I we were eating a tremendous amount of food, and just from a calorie standpoint, and that kind of makes it all the more important, like the quality of the food that you're eating. So you're a vegetarian, which is admirable. I think that's one of the many examples of your discipline. But I did want to get your thoughts on kind of food, quality, quantity and diet in general In the training part of the equation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, in the training block in general when training for in the training part of the yeah, the equation, training block, yeah, and I think, um, I mean a vegetarian or not vegetarian, I think some of those things. I think that, or veganism or whatever it is, I think that presents its own set of circumstances. I don't think it's a challenge, I think it's just different. Um, I didn't struggle with it, um, as far as felt like I was deprived or depleted on anything throughout the whole process. I mean, I think, listening to anything that Rob Bell does or says, or following him he's vegan and that's even significantly more difficult and he does these crazy epic adventures like crazy long one day things being a vegan, which is significantly harder. Um, you know, I think, just keeping it consistent with general rules of thumb of eat when, when you're training a large number of hours, you need to be eating basically a lot all the time, and it doesn't. Some people really like to get into the weeds and see all the macros and the micros, like just everything that's going in on their food, and like what are their carbs and what's their protein and what's all these levels, and I'm just not that way. So I like to keep it super, super simple. So I think as long as you can eat really quality stuff 80 to 90% of the time, and then if you want to cheat with some ice cream and some cookies or beers and whatever, then that's totally fine, as long as it's not all the time every day, and and whatever, then that's totally fine as long as it's not all the time every day, and I think that cleans up as you get closer to your event. But I think getting the adequate amount of protein in is important. Um, I think people over estimate what they need for protein, because what is told to us about protein basically comes from the bodybuilding world, um, or things of that nature, and that's not necessarily what we're doing. So I don't think you definitely necessarily need 150 or 200 grams of protein a day.
Speaker 1:Um, for what we do in endurance sports, I think you need to get as much as you can. Um, because you do have muscle recovery and you do have the breakdown and the damage that's happening on a daily basis with with what we're doing. But I don't I think people get caught up in that number more than they should. Um, I don't really. I didn't really ever pay attention to it. The only thing that I eat that's animal based, for the most part is eggs. I have four eggs for breakfast basically every single day, and outside of that I'd never like looked for protein sources outside of just whatever I'd normally eat when beans or tempeh or tofu, or, uh, the days that we would have long days or, um, big days in a row, I definitely would take a protein drink in the daytime almost every day whenever we were in the bulk of it. So that gets me another 25, 30 grams a day, but, um, so I think that's a big piece of it.
Speaker 1:And then I think it's the supplementation around, things Like we. We talked a lot about that, like getting your creatine in, because endurance athletes are usually running lower on creatine, especially if you're vegetarian or vegan, because you're getting that from meat products naturally. Um, in the wintertime, staying up on your vitamin D, so using a D three supplement. Uh, we talked about beta alanine. Uh, we did a supplement with that because, especially for those punchy hard days, it's really good for a lactic buffer. We took greens with us to the race because we didn't know what kind of quality nutrition we would get, so we would do that just to give ourselves some more nutrients or more dense nutrients, but that wasn't all year.
Speaker 1:I'm trying to think of what else that we supplemented with throughout the year. It was the creatine, the beta alanine. I feel like there was something else that we used. Oh, aminos, aminos and a good quality amino source, and that's where you can get your some protein in, uh, without seeking out a fish or a steak or chicken or tempeh or something like that. So I think when you're in your big block, you need to pay more attention, but on a daily basis, it was just like if you're hungry, you should be eating, and you need to be eating before and after your rides and staying adequately fueled there and just being smart about it. I think people get into the weeds more than they should and need to keep it much more simple.
Speaker 2:Well, while we're on the topic of nutrition and supplements, are there any supplements that you would recommend to, say, an omnivore that is training for, say, their first 100-mile gravel race?
Speaker 1:depending on how your daily nutrition intake is. Um, yeah, maybe you need a protein supplement drink maybe. Uh, especially on weekends when you're having your big back-to-back rides or you're having big days, yeah, you do need to add something in there because you are getting crushed. If it's a normal weekday and you're riding an hour, then you know, maybe you don't have to take that supplement or that that protein drink, cause you're probably getting enough for other foods.
Speaker 1:Um, I do like creatine and I like that for all athletes, um, and I like it on a continuous basis because there's a lot of neurological um benefits to it. Um, there's a lot of just benefits and overall health to it. Uh, so I really like that and it helps with those punchy efforts and those punchy workouts that you do throughout the year. I like aminos, especially on really long days before and after. They help with muscle damage during the event and help basically keep the body from breaking down the muscle as as much as it does. But also, soon as you get done, taking it in and getting the muscles recovering as quick as they can with the aminos is something I would highly recommend.
Speaker 1:Outside of that, I really don't think again in the winter time, maybe a d3 supplement just, or an iron supplement. If you're not eating meat or you are a female and with your normal periods and things like that, you may need to supplement with an iron. But I would never supplement with iron or vitamin D unless I did a blood panel and I knew that those were low. I would never do it just to spend money and do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, that's uh, all good info on the off the bike. How about on the bike? I've had a lot of people ask me you know, for what are you eating and drinking on a six hour ride?
Speaker 1:I'll answer mine, and then I want to hear your answer on that, because you dove much deeper into this than you've ever dove. So you're you radically changed what you normally do? So I'm excited to hear your answer on that. So you're you radically changed what you normally do? So I'm excited to hear your answer on that. So start thinking Um, I think anything under a two hour ride, you just can use water, unless it's in the middle of summer and it's super, super hot.
Speaker 1:Um, and just that just saves you money on scratch or whatever you use. Um, if it's really really hot, maybe one bottle of water, one bottle of scratch, and I think anything under two hours, you don't need to get super into the weeds. As far as the calorie intake that, you need Maybe one gel, maybe one piece of solid food that you want to take, and it's one or the other. It doesn't have to be both, for if you are a fit endurance athlete doing a two hour ride, if you're starting from zero, clearly you need to take in a little bit more calories, because maybe your body's just not quite that efficient and it depends on the effort. If you're just going out for a long endurance rides that we did. You're not burning as much, so you can be a little bit, uh, more on the heavy side of foods like real foods, um, but I think you need to shoot for, you know, a bottle-ish an hour, uh, roughly, uh, no matter if it's hot or cold.
Speaker 1:And I think, as far as calories, it depends on the effort and it depends on what you're trying to get out of it. But you know, if you're getting in anywhere from two to 400 calories an hour and that can be liquid or solid you're probably going to be good and that breaks down with carbs. I think roughly depends on how well you can train your gut. The better you can train your gut, the more carbs you can take in. And there's now there's some really good quality products that are much higher carb, that are easily digestible.
Speaker 1:So I think, as long as you're taking in, you know, 50 to 75, 80 carbs is probably the general population, but if you can train your gut into getting into that 80 to a hundred, I think that's just that much better. But sometimes people don't their stomach doesn't tolerate that as well. Um, um, and I like things that have a lot less flavor and or sweeteners, yeah, um, I think that it sits on people's stomach a lot more. But if you're doing a really long day, I would highly recommend doing solids early and then doing your liquids and or gels later in the day. Um, but yeah, what's your take on that? Because you dove into the weeds hardcore and I feel like your race day and or training day nutrition changed dramatically.
Speaker 2:Oh for sure. Yeah, I think I will echo some of the things that you said, but your nutrition for a sub two hour ride is dramatically different than a five or 10 hour ride, and that the the emphasis goes on to for the longer rides pretty much eating as much as you can possibly get down and you know, kind of being uncomfortably full, the first couple hours of a eight hour ride is a really good place to be.
Speaker 2:Um, I did kind of get into the weeds. Uh yeah, rob, uh, recommended this app Saturday, which was highly informative because, you know, I was going to him and saying I have no idea how much scratch I should be using or how many gels I should be using, and what I realized, or what I learned, is that it's just broken down into sodium, which is salt, however you can get it, and up to and including, you know, table salt and I think that's something we both learned a lot about this year yeah that we need and or added significantly more sodium than we were normally taking.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that could just be table salt in water. Yeah, I mean, that is, that is a purely economical and functional sports drink. Uh, and then of course, carbs, which said simply could just be table sugar. I mean, you can make your own sports drink with table sugar and table salt. Um, you know, are those ingredients any different or better than scratch? I don't know. They're one 18th the cost, um, and they don't taste as good. But uh, yeah, it just comes down to sodium and carbs. And doing the math on that, you know, hot of the day, the heavier the sweater, the more the sodium needs, and the longer the race or the ride, the higher the um carb need. Um per hour, yeah, and then I'll echo your one bottle, at least one bottle of fluid an hour. So, yeah, I.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think and that was the thing I think I wasn't before we started this adventure I don't think I was taking in enough calories on longer days, definitely not, and really just for one, for fueling for the next day and or, like you don't realize, until you're an hour five and you're a little flat. But then you're like man, if I would have had, I could have had like 300 more calories over the last two hours and it would have made a massive difference. Yeah, yeah and I. The sodium thing yeah, we both added a ton of sodium, especially over the summer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you just feel better.
Speaker 1:It's significantly different.
Speaker 2:You just generally feel better.
Speaker 1:And when we were at the race, we would put salt in our bottles while we were laying around the hotel room.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, just to drink, to keep that topped off, and I don't think we ever had an issue with with hydration and or, um, feeling depleted with with sodium or anything like that at the race. So which is the worst feeling? Um, okay, so oh, and then I forgot. The one thing I wanted to note on these endurance rides was one thing if I learned anything from a nutrition standpoint and I had lunch with dave wortloff, who asked me this about racing tour to dirt in the hour and a half two hour range and I said caffeine, caffeine, caffeine is your friend yes and yeah, I think that was.
Speaker 2:if I learned learn one thing about nutrition racing at Cape Epic it's caffeine is your friend, so I would take caffeine at starting line whatever race you're doing, whether that's 20 milligrams or 150, depending on you know the person and the race, or 150, depending on you know the person and the race. Um, and then if the race is long enough and you have the tolerance for it, I'd continue taking it throughout the race.
Speaker 2:Agree, I had these heavy duty sis beta gels called nootropics. They had 200 milligrams of caffeine in them and I would kind of plan to take those at like the lowest mental spot of the day, um, and of course it's not an immediate hit, but I mean it's within 15 minutes. You're in a much better place, um, so I guess, if there's one takeaway from a nutrition standpoint for me, and what?
Speaker 1:what, uh, cause you got into and experimented with quite a few different brands or products throughout the year. Yeah, what were some of the brands that you liked and or used on a regular basis?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, you know, goose, I did not like the flavors. Personally, the Martin gels were my favorite. Consistency, because they kind of come out. They're not very liquidy, they kind of come out like a jello shot, so it's really easy to get all of the product out of the packaging.
Speaker 2:Um, but I ended up using a lot of sis gels because this beta they're like line of beta products is for ultra endurance stuff. So everything is essentially double the, the uh, the carbs, and I think all the other companies now are doing these high carb gels. But, um, yeah, I mean, if you try to put in 80 grams of carbs that's four regular gels you're going to do that every hour for a six hour race Like that's four regular gels. You're gonna do that every hour for a six-hour race, like that's. That's not, you know, that's not realistic and it's not palatable. So a lot, you'll see a lot of these companies are coming out with these 40 to 45 gram gels. Um, yeah, like I said, sis beta is what I use, but I think within the next year pretty much every shop will have a high-carb gel.
Speaker 1:And then we I mean I use Scratch pretty much all year, and then we use the high-carb Scratch basically in the first bottle of the day because we had it. But you use Scratch pretty much the whole time too, right? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's a good all-around drink. I supplement it. Brandon Morris told me to put in a quarter teaspoon when it's hot out, which was you know he told me that two years ago and a quarter teaspoon, I think, is 570-something milligrams of sodium, and then scratch is around 380 milligrams. So you know, you've got just under a gram of sodium per bottle, which is a lot. But if it's 95 degrees out and you're, you know, in a pace line, that's exactly what you need. Yeah, I agree. Okay, the next thing I wanted to visit with you about is strength training. Uh, mobility, flexibility. You know you in particular have done an incredible job, staying super fit, super strong, um, into your 40s. Am I allowed to say that?
Speaker 1:yeah, mid 40s.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, still a mid 40 year old that most people would not want to get into a bar fight. Is that safe to say?
Speaker 1:Well, I don't know. I'd probably cry if they hit me, but yeah, we'll go with that. At least I look like it. Maybe they don't want to.
Speaker 2:Okay, Well yes, you're a very strong dude and I was wondering if you could share some thoughts on strength and mobility, not just for cycling, but also just aging. Gracefully.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, I think that's something endurance athletes are super scared of, for whatever reason. Like I don't want to bulk up, I'm like dude, I've been lifting weights for gosh.
Speaker 1:At this point, 28 years and shows but it took 28 years to get to here. So you start to do some push-ups and trx bands. You're not going to bulk up man like just, and I feel like as a human, you need to be able to move better, um, yeah, and be able to like if you're, somebody needs you to like help lift the couch and move it to vacuum, then you need to be able to pick up the couch and move it. So I think being a functioning human and carrying maybe three or four or five extra pounds of muscle is much more important than being, like you know, going from 27th to 16th at the local race. So I think it can be.
Speaker 1:Again, I like to keep everything super, super simple. So I like a functional movement day, um, and it can be. Let's just say you're at the gym. That can be stuff that's done with kettlebells, pull-ups, pushups or TRX bands and everybody can buy TRX bands and, like at my house I have a pull-up bar and TRX bands that are strapped to the bar. So I can do a 15 minute workout, blast everything that I need to blast and get range of motion, core and strength all in 15 minutes in basically every main body part and it doesn't really need to be any more than that. Um, unless you are going for you know vanity muscles or you know. So I have a vanity day that I call it, and it's my pretty muscle day, and that's when I do like actual bench press and curls and you know Lindsay comes over.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she tells me how pretty I am and comes over for the show. That's right, I do some of these and some of those and so. But then I think on a normal day, if I have like one day at the gym a week, then it's going to be a trx day, pull-ups and push-ups, and that's it, because you're just everybody you need to. You need to do a pull so that can be a row of some sort. Um and trx bands are great for that, because you're just using body weight, um or a pull up, and it needs to be a push, and you need to have an overhead motion, um, I think for aging gracefully, because think about the things that you do on every day. You grab things off the top shelf. Well, if you really think about it, there's probably a lot of times that you go through a day and never raise your hand above your shoulder. But that's something that if you don't use it, you lose it. So, especially as we get older. But you need to push something every day overhead, every time you go to the gym, you need to row something and you need to push something away from you like a bench press push up, something like that. So keep it super simple. When I do a heavy leg day, when I do my really heavy strength day, I do some sort of squat, some sort of deadlift and again an overhead press with heavyweights and that is going to be like five sets of five reps and that's it. Um, again, I'm in and out of the gym and 30, 45 minutes it doesn't need to be anymore. That's the strength training piece of it. But you can do all that at home pretty efficiently with lunges, with bent over, you know, with, uh, deadlift stuff. But everything we do is in a straight line. So I think we need to move sideways a lot more and that can just be jogging sideways, you know, skipping sideways down down your hallway or out in the backyard or anything that's moving you laterally.
Speaker 1:Mobility wise, again, I like to keep it simple on the strength training side. The other thing is everything we do is front facing. So that's why I like the deadlifts and the rows, because we need to not be imbalanced. So, again, keeping it simple, if you do something on the front, you need to do something on the back. For mobility stuff. That's something I dug in a lot more this year because these long miles and sitting on the bike in a really shitty position for long hours made me hurt really bad this year and my back was like pretty shot, especially for the last like three months, like really, really, really bad. Um, so the last like five weeks I basically got a massage and body work with acupuncture and all kinds of stuff every week, um, just to get to the race site. But, um, again, I think that goes back with things getting really tight on me. So Kelly Starrett has a bunch of great books and resources. He has a lot of free stuff on YouTube. You can just type it in to his YouTube page and get what you need.
Speaker 1:The couch stretch is an absolute must that everyone needs to do as an endurance athlete, for runners or cyclists. Just look it up, kelly Starrett couch stretch. You should be doing that. You need a foam roller to roll out your quads, your calves, um, your glutes. Rolling it out on your spine is huge, um, and because the thing is we sit in such a terrible position with our hips flexors closed off and our shoulders rounded on a bike that we need to open everything back up on the backside and let your spine be opened up and everything else. So those things go a long way and just being a better functioning human, but also getting the power out of your body that you're putting in by training. If you're training a whole bunch but your body's not in line and not functioning correctly, you're missing out. It's like having a V12 engine and only eight cylinders working Like yeah.
Speaker 1:Why have a V12? If only eight of them are going to work? Yeah, well, that's good advice on the uh well, you started doing some strength training this year.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm huge, very bulky, and what?
Speaker 1:did you notice any differences at all and once cause you've never really paid attention to that part of the training. Did you notice anything or feel anything different?
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, I mean, I did functionally feel stronger. I felt a lot better, I think, if anything, you know I wasn't lifting heavy weights and if anything I think doing, I'll call it light weights, light medium weights. I think, if anything, that helped me get more opened up, like doing movements with weight that I wouldn't normally do, and I only lifted upper body, which may or may not be the right call, but that's what I wanted to do. So, yeah, I did a lot of movements upstairs that I wouldn't normally be doing and, I think, augmented my cycling. Well, so I was getting like head to toe workouts week in, week out and not just focusing waist down while the upper body atrophies.
Speaker 1:And I think, in doing long gravel rides or races, long mountain bike rides or races, the triceps and the grip strength those two things that you don't think about go a long ways by doing some basic strength training stuff yeah, for sure yeah, so yes now that you bring, now that you make that point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, because I could. I could relax on these protracted downhills and I wouldn't have exhausted triceps and exhausted hands, whereas I specifically remember several downhill sections in Colorado when I did a bike packing trip with my cousin Rowan and I literally laid the bike over on purpose because I had no more grip strength and could not hold the brakes anymore and you didn't do anything fancy to strengthening that, you just held weights I just held weights, like whenever I took weight lifting classes on peloton and then, whenever they would like, demo exercises.
Speaker 1:I just wouldn't put the weights down I just keep holding them yeah, just keep it simple um, let's talk about some finer things contrast, therapy so uh, I knew I'd chosen a good partner when I called you and I was super excited that I found out about cold plunges.
Speaker 2:And, uh, you, you educated me on the the deleterious effects of chronic load and how it was essentially working against. You know, the body's natural adaptation to do big rides day in, day out. Uh, and it was at that point I was like this guy knows everything about everything.
Speaker 1:I just say it confidently and you believe it.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, it was you know if I didn't have enough information from you, from training, strength training, nutrition, bike fit. I mean I also chose a partner. Very well, I guess I'll summarize it that way. Anyways, what are your thoughts on cold plunges and saunas and the use of them in conjunction?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think for one, they're great for daily living and longevity. There's lots of studies that show that let's start with the cold plunges. You do them better and maybe enjoy them more than I do. I hate cold, I hate it, I hate it, I hate it. I hate it. But it is good for you and I know there's going to be some people that are going to listen to this, that are going to argue with me, because I've had people send me messages about it. There's enough research that shows that's definitely not a bad thing for you and there's enough that shows that it's probably good for you.
Speaker 1:So do what you want, but I built a little cold plunge at the house for like $300 with an, with a freezer from Lowe's, um, and a couple of little things that I bought on Amazon. You don't have to be, it doesn't have to be 30 degrees, 50,. Anything under 60 degrees is going to give you the benefits that you need. But there are a lot of mental pieces of it, but also physical pieces that you're going to get from a cold plunge. Um, it does help with recovery. The one thing I will say is sometimes your body, whenever you're doing training, you're damaging the body and doing things that the body needs to basically fix. That's how you get stronger. You tear it down, it fixes, comes back stronger. So I wouldn't necessarily say that you want to do a cold plunge every single time you do a hard or long ride, because the body does need to have a little bit of that inflammation and that damage to build, come back stronger. Um, I think it can be used, um, not every day for recovery, but most days, um, depending on where you're at in your cycle of training.
Speaker 1:Um, the heat therapy I think it does a couple of things.
Speaker 1:Again, there are some great things that you can do with a sauna If you can have the core temperature elevated already and then when you get into a sauna, um, you can almost kind of get some the easiest way to put it, as some like blood doping, some EPO advantages with the blood plasma volume changing If your core is hot, and then you immediately go into a sauna for another 20 to 30 minutes, um, so there are a lot of blood plasma and it's kind of like going to, kind of like going to an altitude situation.
Speaker 1:So highly recommend that if you have the opportunity. But there's a lot of good recovery and you did it when we were in africa between going between cold and hot, because basically when you're doing cold it's the layman's terms and the easiest way to think about it is it makes everything tight, everything, your blood vessels and everything constrict. And then when you get in the hot, it opens everything up and it's flushing everything out. So you're basically like pumping everything by doing the cold hot, and you did that almost every single day we were in Africa and you felt great after doing it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I enjoy it.
Speaker 1:So I think it's it's great for recovery. Um, it's also great for mental toughness. And then if you are going to a hot races, I think you need to be doing those kinds of things in the sauna as much as possible to get heat adapted. It takes about 14 to 18 days for heat adaptation to be fully effect, but every single day that you can get in there, and you need to be in there every single day for a minimum of 30 minutes to an hour, probably closer to an hour if you can, um, to get heat adaptation. If you're coming from a colder race like we were colder climate going into a really hot race and I don't think either one of us struggled with the heat at all by doing the things that we did, um, you know and like again, you can do some of that with heat adaptation, with riding your bike without the fan on or wearing a little bit more clothes than you want to when you go outside and just getting the core hotter.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you touched on mental toughness, which I did want to visit with you about. But for the average Joe that wants to, you know, go from riding twice a week or once every other week to a more structured training plan, whether that's three, four, five days a week, do you have some thoughts about kind of some tips and tricks to motivate yourself to get on the bike on the days that you inevitably don't want to? Um, you know how do you? We joke, uh, we would send each other uh texts when we'd get on the trainer every day and say it's groundhog day because that's exactly what it felt like.
Speaker 2:So do you have some, some thoughts on you know?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I want to hear your mental component of it. I want to hear your side of that too, because of your mental toughness at the event was like incredible. So I want to. I want you to think about that as well. Um yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean motivation. There's this whole thing going around. Motivation's fake and motivation doesn't really count. Also, like, I understand what they're trying to say there, but sometimes you're more motivated than some, than others, and so when you are motivated, I think you need to go all in on those days and you need to hit as hard as you can and you maybe do a little bit more than you probably had planned because you do want to do it that day. So take advantage of having a good attitude.
Speaker 1:The days that you don't want to do it, I think you look at why you don't want to do. It is just because, like man, I just don't want to get off the couch. Okay, you know what? It's not a choice. You signed up for it, you need to go do it. So those days it's flat out not a choice. You don't get to choose to go ride your bike today. No, it's on your calendar, it's on your agenda and that's what you do, and so I think it putting it on your calendar.
Speaker 1:When I get off work today, I get on the trainer for an hour and a half, and when I get done with that, then I can do whatever I want to do. If I come home and think like man, do I want to get on it? Do I want? No, I don't want to. What I want to do is sit on the couch and have a beer and watch TV.
Speaker 1:But I think if you don't make it a choice, that helps significantly. And then I also think that some days, like you really know that you should, but for some reason deep down inside you're like man, I just cannot make this happen. And some days that's okay and you need to take those days off for whatever reason, and sleep or eat more. And I think that comes with experience and time of knowing your body more. Um, I don't think newbies are going to necessarily understand that piece of it. Sometimes it's okay to take a day off long term because missing one day in two months isn't really going to matter. No, and don't beat yourself up for that. But some days it's not a choice and you just have to do it. Finding group rides was huge for us.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:That keeps it interesting interesting some accountability doing a gravel ride over a road ride, doing a trainer ride with zwift or whatever platform you like, doing a race because you don't want to do a hard workout on zwift. But I'll ride for 20 minutes and then I'll do a 30 minute race in the middle, then I'll do a 20 minute cool down. Well, I just got my hour in with my intensity, but I sure as hell didn't want to do that work, that structured, hard workout. Yeah. So finding ways to be creative with it, or I, I have a mountain bike, I just need to do some endurance miles. So I'm just going to go out on the mountain bike for two hours because I don't want to ride the river trail for two hours, like so. There's ways to make it better. Um, having some accountability partners makes a huge. Having a partner that was doing this race with us or with me made a huge difference, because some days I didn't want to do it, but I knew I was responsible and accountable to you.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That helps a lot. Um, yeah, and I think the days that you don't want to do stuff, don't beat yourself up Like it's not your job. You're not making a paycheck and remember you signed up for it. But I think you know I, I mean, I'll be very honest about this.
Speaker 1:I had therapy today and this is one of the things that we talked about was like when I was in Africa and I felt horrible and my stomach felt like total trash and I was having this doom and gloom situation and I'm like I have a buddy that I graduated high school with, who's got stomach cancer and he just had a stomach removed, like they removed his stomach the day we started the race and I had his bracelet with me, um, at the event that I kept, and I had his bracelet with me, um, at the event that I kept. And I was just thinking like, dude, I'm riding my bicycle in Africa with my buddy, my stomach hurts like big deal. Like there's people dealing with real life stuff Bryce, um, anybody that knows Bryce Wooten and my adventures with Bryce, um, I'm more happy to share that some other time, but, um, bryce has CP and he's in a wheelchair and he told me before I went. When you start crying and bitching, trade places with me.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I'm like get him on my bike. I chose it, so that's how I mentally get through that. But I think the question for you is you never and I don't know if you realize it or not, but you never said a negative thing the whole time at least out loud, um, um about the event or how you were feeling, even though there was days that like I could watch you, like not be able to bend over or pick stuff up, or hardly you made a lot of sounds when you moved at all, but you never said a negative thing about the event, or you were feeling bad or you didn't want to do it, or there was none of that. How did? Were you able to stay maybe not necessarily positive, but not negative whenever, like you know, four days in, five days in, and like it really wasn't fun anymore? Um, because I asked you if you were having fun and you told me there was times that it was enjoyable but you weren't really having any fun yeah, I I wouldn't say it was fun, it's not the right.
Speaker 2:I mean, we talked about this a good bit over there is just practicing gratitude and being grateful that you know we're, we're incredibly blessed to be able to, you know, much less sit here and be able to do this, but even more so, you know, have the physical ability to train and ride our bikes, have the, you know, the life that we do, where we have the time to put in and we can afford to travel to the other side of the world. I mean, it's just kind of layers upon layers of blessings that created this opportunity for us, um, you know, some of which we worked our asses off for and some of which, you know, we just won the genetic lottery, so to speak. So, uh, yeah, I tried to practice a lot of gratitude and the and the fact that, while I was working hard, I was just incredibly lucky to be put in that position, um, and I did. I mentioned this in the last uh show, but you know I would apply kind of these mind games to myself to get myself motivated for the next day, and you know whether this is a shorter stage or whether the weather looks weather forecast looks to be more favorable. I would do the same things in training. Um, and a great example is you know we had that cold snap in January and you know it was my eighth day in the on a in a row on a trainer and I'm sure it was the same for you. And you know it's like how do you get motivated to do get on the trainer for another two hours with your?
Speaker 2:You know the salt and the, you know discomfort and, um, I would get on these new Zwift worlds and I would try to do all the routes in these obviously not Watopia, but the smaller worlds. I would try to do all the routes in them and I would just like turn it into a video game. And I was just checking the boxes and I would try to strategize the routes in them. And I would just turn it into a video game. And I was just checking the boxes and I would try to strategize the night before, like how can I get in my whatever it is two-hour workout and get as many of these routes in as possible? So yeah, a lot of little mind games with yourself and taking the little wins and just grabbing on and holding on for your life, uh, and just kind of trying to put all the obvious sucks in the. You know, ignore them put them in the rear view mirror.
Speaker 2:But, um, I'd say, in summary, just practicing a lot of gratitude, a lot of gratitude, gratitude for you being there and even when times got tough. You know I was sad, uh, and even when times got tough, you know I was sad, obviously, but I was extremely grateful for everything you did for me. I mean, you know, I told you this after the show a couple days ago. You know there's an argument to be made.
Speaker 2:I couldn't have finished the race without your support. And I don't mean like standing on the side of the race, like cheering me on at water stops, I mean like from the moment we woke up to the moment we went to bed, it's we're getting sacks through the finish line and I'm literally going to do everything I can to do that. And you lived and breathed that. And I mean we're talking about hand me your bottle so I can mix up the scratch and everything in between. I mean it was incredible what you did to support me and I can't thank you enough and I can't overstate the importance of that for half the race, the hard, half the race. So thank you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, dude, it was an honor and awesome, and you know, that was the thing is like one of us had to get to the finish line and uh, yeah, I was gonna. I was excited to help out in any small way that we could.
Speaker 2:My last topic for us is bike gear. So it's a giant topic. Gear it's a giant topic. I know it's a giant topic. Let's talk real quick about bikes specifically. If I live in Oklahoma, I want to get into mountain biking. What kind of bike should I get? Not necessarily brand. I think the brand doesn't matter really anymore um, I think they all.
Speaker 1:Any quality brand makes a quality bike, um, and it's just which color do you want and which bike shop do you want to buy it from? Or where do you want to buy it online? I mean, um, as far as component wise, and if you're only going to ride in, ride in Oklahoma and you have no plans of going anywhere else, maybe Arkansas and that's it. 100 mil travel full suspension bike is perfect for Oklahoma riding. It's tight, it's light, it gets around corners in our tight stuff. It's great If you have man. I want a bike. I have no clue where I'm going to end up. I have no clue where I'm going to ride. You go 120 mil travel full suspension bike all day long. It's only going to be if you buy a quality one. It's only going to be a couple pounds heavier than a hundred mil travel bike. It's going to be able to descend much better than a hundred mil travel. It's going to be a little bit more sluggish and hard to get around the tight turns in Oklahoma, like at bluff Creek or a Draper or something like that. But all in all, it you're. If you don't know a difference, you're not going to know a difference. I had 120 mil and a hundred mil.
Speaker 1:I ended up taking the hundred mil and selling the 120 mil travel bike because it was five pounds lighter, which was a significant amount, especially with the train that we were going to be going over. So I would look and I just bought a brand new bike that's a completely different brand than the other two were. All the components are going to be fairly similar. It's either going to be SRAM or Shimano, um, tomato, tomato, zebra or zebra, as we learned. Um. But the 120 mil, I think, is a must. That's what you rode. It just makes it so much smoother going over chunky stuff and descending. You just have a little bit more confidence. Um. So when it comes to as far as that, that would be the number one thing I would look for what's?
Speaker 1:your price point and 120 mil travel and then you just, then you just go from there. But I think then you can say what you would say, what your answer is on this. But I'm going to say, if I was saying an add on, that everyone needs to to have. I think you need tire liners, um, for a variety of reasons, and I think you need a dropper post dropper post all day never a bike without a dropper post never, never.
Speaker 2:I'm not riding another mountain bike without a dropper and a remote lockout is a extremely nice add-on.
Speaker 1:It's not a must, but if there is going to be the next must, a remote lockout at least on your front. Suspension, I would say, is your next must. If you wanted to add a third thing on there.
Speaker 2:That's the only thing I would have done differently at Cape Epic on my bike is either had a bike with a lockout or figured out how to put one on. Otherwise, I think that 120 mil santa cruz, blur tr was perfect for you know the amateur rider which we are. Um, if you're racing it, you probably want 100 with all the climbing, but for what we were doing, I think that what are they called down country?
Speaker 2:bikes is ideal, and for that race in particular, either a lockout or we saw a lot of specialized epics which have the shock, so I'll call it a intelligent suspension or a lockout would be a really nice perk, but I would never consider riding that without a dropper.
Speaker 1:And if you already own a mountain bike that I would look at. Inserts. We got the Victoria the airliner lights.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the light lights, uh, which Chris Drummond recommended and they've been wonderful for us. Um, but then a dropper must go on your bike and the tire setup. We talked and looked and researched a lot of stuff on tires. I think we had the great tire setup for over there. It's not necessarily the fastest tire and best setup for Oklahoma riding, but it's pretty good. But it's pretty good and from over there it was the best. So experiment with your tires. It's an easy, cheap upgrade. Droppers are not super expensive and those airliners were very inexpensive.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you can get a lot of free speed in the corners having confidence in your front tire and having the right pressure yeah, and running the liners you can run significantly lower pressure yeah, and you know, there's a marked difference between 15 pounds and 17 pounds yeah, huge um especially over a long distance, and test them like you went out to skip and spent a day, yeah, trying different pressures on the same exact corners to find out what was too high and what was too low.
Speaker 1:So when you go out to ride mountain bikes, especially sometimes, it needs to be a testing session or a play session, a skill session. It doesn't have to be get out of the car and see if I can get a kom or how fast can I do this lap.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Sometimes in mountain biking you need to do some practice and some testing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, you are a natural teacher and I've been a firsthand recipient and beneficiary of that for the last year. But I had a funny story that I did want to share. I remember this was several years ago. I don't remember the race we were racing together and we were at the starting line I mean like one minute before the gun goes off and a random guy in the group that was standing next to us, you know. He asked us a question about I don't remember and it doesn't matter, but clipping in or whatever and you went on this very, you know, long, detailed explanation.
Speaker 2:You should be doing this just super, like no ego, just 100% kindhearted, helping this guy. But I was giggling while you were doing it because we're literally racing against this guy. You're doing this within like seconds of the gun going off. But, uh, yeah, ever since I saw that I've just been, I admire you, I admire your natural curiosity to learn all these things. Uh, and then I'm also admire and grateful for your uh willingness and your ability to communicate that and teach that to others.
Speaker 1:I appreciate it. And yeah, I think my last thing to add, and you can have a closing thought to wrap it up Um, you know, I think me not finishing was its own thing. Um, and I I don't know if still it's completely processed through yet it's there, but I think, for whatever reason, it came quickly afterwards that it was a chapter in the story and not the story. Yep, and for whatever reason, that came to me that way and I feel very good and comfortable with it that way. I still struggled with it, but the second you crossed the finish line and I came up and grabbed you and hugged you and we had a moment and I think the thing that you said then, that you probably don't even realize, you said but you were like this was the most amazing journey. This year was incredible. We had so many great memories this year. We had so much fun this year.
Speaker 1:Like this event didn't go the way that we wanted to, but like this year was incredible and I was just thinking of it as this year. Like this event didn't go the way that we wanted to, but like this year was incredible and I was just thinking of it as this event. And then, when you said that I was like dude, you're right, we shared so much this year. That was so much more. So I thank you for that, because that changed my perspective on a lot and I, when I went back and look at him, like dude, that was like the coolest year ever in a lot of ways.
Speaker 1:We did a lot of great trips. We learned so much, uh, about each other, about biking, uh, our friends our support system. It's wild, yeah, it really was very humbled and very grateful for, for what we have.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, my final thought is choose your partner Well for Cape Epic, because I did.
Speaker 1:Well, I appreciate that, and so did I.