Cycling Oklahoma
We will talk about everything cycling in Oklahoma. We cover races, athletes, bike industry, local gossip and everything fun that has to do with 2 wheels.
Cycling Oklahoma
The Journey of Cycling and Parenthood with Ryan Hulseberg
What happens when a passionate cyclist becomes a new dad and still manages to conquer the trails? Join us as we sit down with Ryan Hulseberg, a beloved figure in the local cycling scene, who shares his inspiring journey of balancing newborn parenting with intense training. Ryan opens up about the unwavering support from his incredible wife and the community that fuels his cycling passion. You'll also get the latest on Cycling Oklahoma, a platform providing downloadable gravel routes, and how our community's support can take it to the next level.
Ever wondered what it’s like to transition from the world of film and video production to a career in design, while keeping a deep love for cycling and photography alive? Our conversation takes a fascinating turn as we share personal stories from college days, including the joys and mishaps of fixed gear bikes. Discover how creative pursuits like non-commercial photography and cycling adventures became key outlets for personal fulfillment and happiness. We also explore the serendipitous encounters that lead to a vibrant involvement in competitive racing, and how community and mentorship played a pivotal role in overcoming early challenges and impostor syndrome.
From the adrenaline rush of mountain biking to the grueling endurance tests of gravel racing, this episode covers it all. Hear thrilling tales from iconic events like the Ouachita Challenge, Rule of 3 and Paris-Roubaix, and get insights into the mental strategies that build toughness and resilience. We also share some light-hearted moments about triathlete gear choices and humorous race day mishaps. Finally, we wrap up with a look ahead at future cycling adventures and the gear that makes those epic rides possible, ensuring this episode is a must-listen for every cycling enthusiast out there.
What is up? Cycling Oklahoma? Thank you so much for tuning in for another episode and this one Kind of really put it out there this past week I guess the beginning of August 2024, and it got great. I got great responses from so many people. So I want to say thank you so much.
Speaker 1:If you have not checked out cyclingoklahomacom, please go look at it. It's where you can download gravel routes all over the state. It's sorted by the area of the state so you can find routes if you're traveling or live in different areas or whatever the case may be. There's more things coming. It's going to continue to evolve, continue to get better. We can upgrade several packages. All of that takes money. I've paid for most of this out of my pocket and with the support of Moore Overhead Door, I've been able to of this out of my pocket and with the support of more overhead door, I've been able to put some of their money towards this. So there are still significant dollars that are needed to be raised to make this exactly what the vision in my head is going to be and create the content that I would like to create for this platform to give back as a resource to the cycling community of Oklahoma. So here's my you know lame sales pitch. If you are connected to any businesses that want to support this cause, I really would love to get in touch with um, one of like Oklahoma tourism, one of the tribes that can help support, because I would like to really do some stuff that creates some assets to get back to drive some tourism and some money to these areas that we ride through and tell the history of where we ride through and give stories about where we ride through. So if you have any connections to these people or these organizations or you are connected to a business that would love to support what we're doing, please let me know. I would love to talk to you. I'm heavily working on this right now and it takes a lot of time and it'll take a lot of resources and bring in a lot of people to help make this vision come true. So if you have money that you can spend for some marketing, for some advertising to support this, then please do. If you have a connection to any tourism organization, any municipality or one of the tribes, please let me know and so I can reach out to them and show them what the vision is and kind of what we're doing here and help, help do that. But with that being said, I cannot think more overhead door enough for their support of the podcast, for them putting their dollars into this uh project. It has helped support the podcast. It has helped get cycling oklahomacom off the ground, uh, with their dollars that they have supported. So if you have any garage door needs, if you have, you know, some spring cleaning house things that need to be done still, uh, any storm damage that you're still dealing with, uh, building a new house, reach out to these guys. They are supporting us. Let's support them, uh, and I actually had another person this week tell me that they use them. So it's awesome that our cycling community is supporting each other. So if you are a local business owner, um, and would like to advertise on here and like to market, hopefully we can drive some cyclists your way, uh, so hopefully you can get your money back. But more overhead door I cannot thank you enough. Check them out, moreoverheaddoorcom. They are on the Googles. Their phone number is 405-799-9214. Great organization with great people running it that are really putting their money back into the community, and I appreciate that.
Speaker 1:Now onto this episode. This is Mr Ryan Hustleberg, if you have been to Wheeler Crit and you've raced wheeler crit or you've attended wheeler crit, he is the beautiful soul that starts you almost every single week. Um, I did notice this week that he cut his uh man bun, which I'm a little disappointed and sad about that, to be honest with you, because, uh, but it was uh he's. He's on to new and exciting trends, I guess. But ryan is always the best dressed, most kindhearted, smiling individual at any bike event that you go to, and listening to his story is really good, it's exciting, it's entertaining and I think you'll like it. Ryan's just a great soul and a great human. So it really comes through with this.
Speaker 1:With this episode we talk about, you know, him needing to get out and find his own adventures, because all of his buddies do these crazy things and he wants to find his own adventures. And did he ever find his own adventures? So we get into some of the details of those. Him and his wonderful wife have just had their first baby, so we talk about what it's like to train with a newborn, and his incredible wife is very, very supportive but also pushes him to be his best, and we talk about some of that too. So it's a great episode. I just can't say enough great things about Ryan and if you've ever met him, you understand what I'm saying. If you've never met him, go say hi because I guarantee you you will not be disappointed in the conversation that you have with Ryan. So a great man and I hope you really, really enjoy this episode.
Speaker 1:If you would like to be on the podcast, you know somebody that has great stories that needs to share their stories then, uh, reach out, let me know. And again, I want to say thank you so much for the cycling Oklahomacom support. Go download some routes. Uh, go join our community, join our organization there. And, um, if you have routes that you would like me to upload that are some of your favorite in your area, shoot them over to me at cycling Oklahoma at Gmail. I'll get those uploaded. But everything from gravel routes, mountain bike trails, everything's on there.
Speaker 1:We've got a great blog. I have some incredible guest writers that will be writing. I write like a five year old, so that will not be happening anytime soon, but we have some really good topics that are going to be covered by local experts. So go check out the blog and thank you guys so much for all the support and for being a part of our amazing community. Go wave at people, go play bikes, go have fun and go enjoy life. All right, ryan, we're live to ryan. I've only done one other ryan on here, one other time with smoke, and that was many, many, many. I think that might have been a different podcast wow.
Speaker 2:So there's some, some other good ryan's. You need to get on here Drumming.
Speaker 1:Uh-huh, oh, I've had. Oh yeah, I had a little drumming. Yeah, we had a little right, right, so you've had three. Yeah, three. Mm-hmm. Brantley needs to do it. Yeah, I don't know if Brantley would talk, no he's too.
Speaker 2:I haven't seen him in a while. I noticed that yesterday. I was like I wonder who. I didn't get to go to Tuesday. I didn't get to go to Night Fight, so I'm always checking who's there. I noticed he did his own thing. I haven't seen him in a while.
Speaker 1:It's also tough really. I haven't really seen him much at all this late spring. Last time I saw him at Wheeler he looked super fit, but I didn't. I didn't talk to him much so um, how's life?
Speaker 2:It's good. It's good, it's busy. Yeah, now that you got a kiddo. Yeah, yeah, you caught me on a tired week, but you got a little bit of a break right now. Yeah, got a break, got a break? Um, I uh. Yeah, mills, our son. He's seven months old and so he's been sleeping great since the gun. Like that's lucky, slept amazing. And so everyone that asks us you're like oh, how's the sleep? That's the first question.
Speaker 2:Well, that's the easy question yeah, it's like it's great and you're like you're not saying it in a rude way, but you're. You're also just like. You know we got a good one. Yeah, it's the one that tricks you for another. Yeah, and then a couple of weeks ago it was like a Sunday night, I think it was our Saturday he like kept waking up, and then kept waking up, and then it's four in the morning and five in the morning. You're like, oh my gosh, you know we slept, you know three hours, but in like 20, 30 minutes, stretches.
Speaker 2:And then I can't imagine that for like years, yeah, yeah, people have said yeah, it's years, and so I'm like thank goodness. And then he, he, he's been okay. And then, um, I'm, I'm going on vacation in a week, and so you're just like stressed with work and everyone's like can we get this done, can you get this done? And so just that's more why I'm tired right now. But, um, with him not sleeping, I stupidly. It was like two nights where we didn't get hardly any sleep, and then I was like I'm going to go do a knife fight.
Speaker 1:And it was a hot night. It was two weeks ago, a week ago.
Speaker 2:And, oh my gosh, like I was literally second to last on the day.
Speaker 1:Man, Well, I'll come next time and you can.
Speaker 2:No, no, I would have been 30 minutes ahead of me, like people were coming by that were just like, are you okay, get on my wheel?
Speaker 1:and they're talking to me and I'm still going out the back like just keep going, I can't, I can't do this, it's you you like truly get to see like how, like outside stress affects you on the bike that's a hard thing for people to understand, like when you're coaching them or training them or something you're like no, life stress counts just as much as like physical stress, yeah, and you don't realize it until you experience it Like real stress.
Speaker 2:I feel like I can juggle one or the other, Like I can juggle stress, I can juggle lack of sleep. There's definitely been nights before where you know you don't get much sleep, but when you do all of it it's like, okay, I can do one or the other.
Speaker 1:But and you may feel just a little tired, until you put out effort and you're like yeah, I'm smoked. This is there's nothing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I rode to the ride too, so but it was it was a south wind, you know, I had 22 mile an hour average I felt like a champion.
Speaker 1:You had to ride home.
Speaker 2:No, I didn't okay, uh, she met us for family dinner, which I was like, oh my gosh, if she wasn't I, I mean I I would. I just had to call and wait for her to come. But just uber, I felt like a champ on the way there, oh yeah it's like a 20 mile an hour wind day 25 mile an hour one day, and so I. It's a straight north ride from norman, so I got there and was like telling by being it's like I'm gonna crush tonight whenever you feel tapped.
Speaker 1:So anybody that hasn't done nifi. You start in oklahoma city from capitol um, I don't know how far it is to get to the airport. Seven miles, seven miles. And then you turn West and then it starts heating up a little bit for the most part, and then, once you kind of start venturing back to the South, is when it like really cranks up. Yeah, there's been times and I had no idea when that first started and I was not in like very good shape and we turned West and I was like like really tapped within like the first mile to the first stoplight and I was like this is not a good day, this is going to be a bad day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was a, it was a strong South wind and, um, mccork was there, um, and normally that this year, like when Rob's there and Dempsey and Emerson and cook and Hodges there's like a buffer. You know, right, okay, I can't, I'm not, I can't hang with McQuirk, but, like Rob, someone else will fill in those gaps and so you're getting a bit of a break. While Rob was gone, hodges had to ride home early, so he left before the segment started. Cook was out, dempsey and Emerson were at Toad, so it was like you know, a bunch of, uh, you know, cat threes, I guess you could say with mccork and it's like he would go, and it's like for me to just try to come around him is like five or six hundred watts, yeah, to stay in, to stay up there.
Speaker 1:And then I felt like okay I gotta be the rob tonight, and that only lasted once, like I said that doesn't.
Speaker 2:That's not a good. It didn't really even last once. I was like I'll close the gap, but I'm not going around it no man.
Speaker 1:So it was a rough night, but that's a rough night. All that say I'm a little tired, okay. Well, let's take a step back and kind of get into how you got started in writing. Yeah, um, and kind of just start from there. Sure, um? Are you from oklahoma city? Yeah, I grew up in Oklahoma.
Speaker 2:City, south of Oklahoma City. I went to Grant High School. Okay, lived here most of my life. My wife, emily, and I got married in 2011. Okay, she's from Tulsa, and so we moved to Tulsa and we were there for five years and then now we've been in Norman so back in the city for seven years or eight years. We've been married for 13 years.
Speaker 1:So whatever the math, is eight years.
Speaker 2:Okay, when did you guys meet UCO?
Speaker 1:Okay. So, yeah, school Okay. And you said you went to school for Film and video production. Yeah, okay. I got questions about that off air for personal reasons. Yeah, yeah, that's super cool. Did you do anything with that degree when you got out of school?
Speaker 2:So I worked in agencies doing some film and video production, some documentary stuff or more documentary or lifestyle type stuff. And then was always the guy that was lended a hand in design and so I just kind of inched my way into the design world and I've been doing that for the last I guess, 12 or 13 years.
Speaker 1:Do you miss? Do you get to do any of the film and production stuff on the side just as like a fun hobby or uh?
Speaker 2:occasionally like I'll have some friends that sometimes I I definitely enjoy being like a second shooter. Um, like, what I didn't like about it was like being a director or being like, uh, assertive, or like driving the the ship Like I, driving the the ship like I. Didn't like that aspect.
Speaker 1:I really enjoy being the second shooter and like playing a part. You really like more of the creative side of like the actual doing it, not the putting it all together.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah like I'll definitely rally the troops, but I don't want to be the the lead guy. It's the same with like wheeler and rodeo and all these other things that we're doing. Like I will a hundred percent like play a role in it, but I don't want to be the race director. Yeah, I will, I will gladly be a co race director and help to put on an event or host an event, and, but I don't want to be the guy. Yeah, so, um, I, I miss it, but I I get to do some of it.
Speaker 2:A lot of the photography I've like done over the last couple of years with cycling has been like a good outlet because there's like no, there's no pay associated with it, which is really freeing and fun. Like I can just do it and have fun. And if we get some cool shots, then maybe Hodgers will use it for capital, or I used to do some stuff with shanks, like you know. They'll use it and it's like oh cool, I took that shot or it took that video. But it takes away the stress of like, well, I didn't get the shot or I didn't get the video.
Speaker 1:They're not like well, we're paying you and so you get to just do it more as a creative side, creative outlet. Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. And then after you guys moved back. So when did you start like riding so?
Speaker 2:I, I was into cycling in college. I got, uh, I had some friends that that got into fixed gears. Uh-huh, um, it would probably be um equatable to like hide and go bike, like kind of like that crowd today there was like uh, um, uh, which that group is. Yeah, it's huge, it's crazy wild.
Speaker 2:There was a, a club, um called the hellcats that's what I was gonna ask yeah, I met a guy in college, caleb nims, who, uh, is he in utah now? I think so I think he's over colorado, yeah, um, who was awesome, his art is super cool. Oh yeah, he's great. And then he was buds with a photography professor there, um, who was into cycling, um, more like BMX and some fixed gear stuff. And so we I got a like a makeshift fixed gear bike from like celestial Sheridan was building those like kind of hacked, um, fixed gears.
Speaker 2:Perfect person for perfect shop for that, yeah, so I got, got one of those. I have a twin brother and so he had one too, and so we, we got into that, um, but it was like, you know, it was nothing fitness related, it was like I remember they used to do some of those Allocat races and when I worked at Schlegel's they would come in and talk about it.
Speaker 2:We were way too scared to do that, so we would go ride. How I got into it? One funny story with Caleb is he was trying to teach me how to skid like and I have a fixed gear now and I love riding, but yeah, it has brakes and like it's purely like a training bike or like I'm tired of riding, I don't want to ride to get today Let me go around my fixed gear because it's really fun and it's more engaging than just a road bike and it's more engaging than just a road bike. And so, like I go ride fixed gears with Chad Shanks every Friday morning and it's super fun, but it has brakes and it's very safe and whatever.
Speaker 2:But back then when I got into it, no one else had brakes and so I was like I don't want to have brakes and so they came off and he was trying to teach me how to skid and it was between classes and there was like this kind of downhill next to a parking lot that had an attendant who was sitting in like a school chair and he was this older guy and he was just I'm sure he was watching us, thinking like these guys are goofballs. But he didn't say anything and I finally had gotten a couple of good skids in and then I did like I was going faster and he was like, let's see how far you can go. And so I got into it, locked into the skid, and then something happened. I got nervous. I don't know what it was, but I got bucked. My knee came unlocked. I got bucked, went over the handlebars, had a white t-shirt on, skid on the ground and like landed with my head on the curb.
Speaker 2:My glasses were all bent oh my gosh, and I remember just looking up and I was like at the crotch of this parking attendant guy. It was probably in his 60s and he didn't even look at me, didn't? Didn't nothing at all, freaking college kids. So then I got up and like had blood on my shirt. Oh my gosh, I go to class and it's like well, and I think Emily was in the class too and I was like what happened? And I was like don't, don't ask.
Speaker 2:So the old man say anything to you? Nothing, nothing, just I'd like fix my glasses was so embarrassed. I was like Caleb, who I thought was the coolest guy in the world at this point. I was like he was super nice about it. He's a. He's a great guy, but I was embarrassed and I was like I got to go to class.
Speaker 2:This old man, like like two or three blocks from cry baby hill, like that downhill corner, um had always like watched cycling from afar, but I had no idea what a crit was. I had no idea, like all I knew was tour de France, um, but I enjoyed like the bits and pieces of Tour de France that I'd watched. But anyway, we lived on the river trail, got into running. I was a little overweight, I was like 185 or something, which is, for me, was big.
Speaker 1:I say how much do you weigh now?
Speaker 2:Well, I'm heavy. Right now I'm 160. If not heavy, yeah. Okay, I mean, if you saw me at cry baby, you would know that was a little heavy I was suffering.
Speaker 2:But anyway I got into running just as like a fitness thing and trying to lose weight, and then got addicted Like one of my. My first long run was, uh, I tried to do six miles, I think it was, and I got three miles out and it was like I can't make it back. You know, I got to call Emily. But anyway I got into running, started doing half marathons, started doing full marathons they have Turkey Mountain there, so I was doing trail runs and so just kind of got hooked on running. Definitely wasn't like a fast runner by any means, but I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 2:And then one Sunday morning we were out on like a long run and we ran towards Crybaby and there was like a big thing happening with food trucks and we're like, well, let's just run that way. And I think that was the start our run. And so it was like Matt, it was early in the morning, it's like the master's races and we're like, oh my gosh, there's like a bike race happening. So let's finish our run and then we'll come back. And then we came back and it was like just in time for, like you know, the threes and the cat, one, two and then the pro, and I was like oh my gosh of all races to go see.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so like I had no idea, like we're asking people like googling, what to create, like we had no clue this was in 2012, maybe 20. Yeah, probably 2012. Okay, and so man?
Speaker 2:you come a long way quickly, the well. To me it feels slow. The local guys were like a big hit then. Like kegel was racing, duval was racing, and so like we started to realize like oh, some of these teams like look like other people are wearing their kids, like oh, they're local, but but anyway, we ran into tulsa tough, had no idea, went to crybaby back then crybaby was fully open and I was like this is insane. And I remember telling Emily like this is amazing, I want a bicycle. But I will never, ever do this. This is nuts. Uhc was like a big team back then. I remember we were on the downhill on the inside of the course and people were chunking their bottles into that big field there's a home there now and we left with like 15 pro bottles which, I'm sure, like now, I'm like we needed.
Speaker 2:These guys don't make money.
Speaker 1:Like we need to go put these back at the start. But we were just like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:I just got rid of my last elbows racing bottle.
Speaker 1:That's hilarious.
Speaker 2:Which Stefan Roth threw, who at the time I had no clue who he was, and now I'm like I just gave away a bottle that he's like the one guy that's raised all 16 years of tulsa tough like that's awesome. I got rid of it, but anyway, that's how I got like my. That was my first exposure to cycling exposure and then it was like google how, where's more of these? And of course there's there's nothing else and um.
Speaker 2:So then it was like a ritual every year was like okay, we realize it's a friday to sund thing, okay, friday, we're taking off of work, we're going to go to Tulsa tough. So we did that up until um 2015. Finally, I talked Emily into letting me like work a side gig so that I could afford a bicycle and I bought like my first proper, like modern road bike. And in Tulsa the scene is huge and it was.
Speaker 2:I feel like it was even bigger then. So of course I didn't ride with anyone, because I was like I have no business.
Speaker 2:I feel like a huge imposter. I couldn't clip in, I didn't have the right gear, the right stuff, and so, like I would take my stuff to the trail and then ride four or five miles and just feel like a loser, like I just was. Like I don't know what I'm doing. I miles and just feel like a loser, like I just was, like I don't, I don't know what I'm doing, I'm nervous. And so I I bought a bike in 2015 from from Duval, actually at T town, and um didn't ride it. Um, I had it for maybe a year, didn't ride it. Um kept running because it was easier, you could do it on your own, and it didn't. I knew what I was doing.
Speaker 2:And then we moved to Norman in 2016. And that was just like a mental refresh for me of like, okay, we're going to a new place. Like I didn't really have many friends in Tulsa, but I was like now we're in a new place, I can make friends, like it's not as awkward. And so I we moved to Norman and um stumbled upon um Tobin, who owned Buchanan, and he's like oh, we have a Monday night ride that was led by Randy Soto, who's a legend and which that was a blessing to like have him as like my first kind of like lead. I'm like leader.
Speaker 2:I remember the first ride I went on. They had a Monday night ride that was led by Randy and they called it a recovery ride and Randy is like lockstep, like like that dude is just the way he pedals his cadence, like he's a machine, and so you just can't hear him when he talks. So like you know he's whispering and you're like what, and so like you learn to get closer because you're like I can't hear Randy. But in my first ride I went with him. I rode off the side of the road because Tobin was talking to me and he was like he could tell I was a newbie and he's asking me all these newbie questions, and I was embarrassed.
Speaker 1:Next thing.
Speaker 2:you know I'm in the grass. Oh my gosh, they don't care Like they're. They were the nicest crowd ever. Um, it's like Randy, I think Melton was probably there, funny enough.
Speaker 2:Shanks and Chad and Sarah they had just moved to to Norman like a month before we did Okay and they had were opening or reopening owls, but they were coming to the Monday night ride, perfect. And so I met all the all of them and they all just kind of took me under and I was like I feel like, um, like I belong, like the team warmup was was around when that that was, and like Darren was here, everyone was just super polite and that was, and like darren was here, yeah, everyone was just super polite and nice and warm up is like the most welcoming group of people. Yeah, like the counter to that was they also have bln, which is my next step, was like the tuesday and thursday ride, which then like that's a race, you know, you got guys like gordon hart still like that, yeah who.
Speaker 2:I'm really good buds with gordon hart, but at the time you're like they're just out here killing us. But anyway. But the Buchanan Monday night ride was like the perfect way to introduce me to cycling and so got into that.
Speaker 2:And then Shanks, the instigator that he is was like you need to do this, you need to do that, you need to do that. You got to start racing, you got to do this. And so he ended up talking me into getting a mountain bike, which again worked a side gig to get a mountain bike with tobin like I did some work for tobin and then in trade was a mountain bike and then got a mountain bike. Shanks is like you got to start racing your mountain bike. That's when I met you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, in my head I was like the safest, I knew about crits and I didn't. I hadn't gone to a road race but I knew about them. But in my mind I was like I don't want to crash on the pavement. I didn't. I hadn't gone to a road race, but I knew about them. But in my mind I was like I don't want to crash on the pavement. I didn't know about cyclocross yet, so all I knew was crits or mountain bike, and chad played that up. He was like you don't want to get road rash, do you like? Go race mountain bikes, uh-huh. So I raced mountain bikes, um, as a three, and did really well, and because your brother raced too.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, my twin brother also raced. I remember you because that's like when I first got into mountain biking yeah, from multi-sport, and I just remember seeing you guys at the races.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so we started doing like we did the torta dirt series. I think we did it for a few years straight went through the threes and then went through the twos and then got um, talked into going to the ones, and that's where I'm at now. But so I got into mountain bike racing and I was like, okay, this isn't too bad. And then next came cyclocross and again Shanks is like you're not crashing on the pavement.
Speaker 1:That's great. Shanks is the best, worst influence on you ever?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so then he. So then I started racing cross and I was like this is amazing, like I really fell in love with cyclocross and I feel like getting into cross was like when I really started to train and like understand and met other people that were training. Like shanks was training, but I wasn't at a level where I could ride with shanks. Like you know, he was doing me a favor by riding with me, like I wasn't training with him yet. So I got into cross and then just kind of like fell, fell in love with it. Um, this cross still your favorite. Yeah, I would say so. I didn't get to do it last year because we had mills, but yeah, I would say, um, it kind of doesn't exist around yeah it's we, you know we're working on it, but it's hard to get anything going and give the time to it.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I got into cyclocross and then that took off and then that turned into crit racing and all of it. Now I love all of it. I very nervous, like I'm definitely a nervous rider. Like if you corner behind, like every Tuesday at Wheeler, jason's like let the, let the brakes go.
Speaker 1:Ryan, let the brakes go.
Speaker 2:pedal that corner Brakes are my friends, yeah, which I'm very grateful for Waddell to do that. But if you know me, then you know that like I, and even on the mountain bike, like if there's something, I'm going to be the guy that's like I don't care, I'm hitting the brakes Me too. It's not worth it, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's not worth it. I'm I'm a middle of the pack of. I'm a middle of the pack like mid category in the middle of the U? S, like I could not be any more average. Yeah, I don't need to be hero. Yeah, and if I do it, my buddies are gonna be like cool. If I don't, they're going to be pissed that they have to like haul me off the like out of the trail and or that I got to, they got to deal with me because now I ruined their ride, yeah. So, yeah, I'm not, I'm not in for the hero stuff, yeah.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I would say cyclocross is still definitely one of my favorite areas of the sport. One funny story with cyclocross my first cyclocross race was share Sheridan's race called blackjack Oaks, which was used to be out in I guess it was Bethany, okay and um, it's like all these Oak trees with a bunch of sandy dirt and then you know, it turns into just full sand and it was a long section and it was like lots of sand into this right-hand corner that was along a chain link fence, like a six or eight foot chain link fence with a big corner post. There was kind of a downhill that took you into this like uphill and it being the first race I'd ever done, like we, um, like help shared and kind of set it up. And then we're like we're going to pre-ride before anyone else comes. We were thinking we're going to pre-ride before the day before, before anyone else comes out there. Well, there were tons of people there and the Drummonds were there and um, you know, aubrey was super young at the time but we knew at that point we knew of the Drummonds, like we didn't know them but we knew who they were.
Speaker 2:And um, chris was just, you know, riding laps. I'm sure he was warming up and he's riding laps around all of us and of course, the timid guy I am like the whole lap. I'm just like when's he going to be here? When's he looking over my shoulder, when's he going to come, so. So then he's catching me in that sand, into that like downhill kind of right-hand corner that has the big fence post and it's 100% my fault, like I'm looking behind, like trying to be like don't, don't, don't, like I don't. I didn't want to be in his way.
Speaker 2:That was my whole reasoning. So I was looking back and I smoked this pole, like helmet hit, smoked the pole, wow. And my brother was there and there was another guy that was there with us that's not in the sport anymore, I don't even remember who it was and, um, they're like cracking up. So then we get to the top of the climb and we all are taking a break, like kind of overlooking, and I think like Sheridan and some other people were up there and Aubrey was there and I knew who Aubrey was, I knew who Chris was, I knew that father, father, daughter thing. And this guy starts telling my story. He was like this freaking idiot that was going way too fast and I was like no, that was going way too fast. And I was like no, no, he did, I was, it was my fault.
Speaker 2:And then he finally says his name and aubrey's standing right there and I'm like trying to kick him like bro, that's his daughter like also, it wasn't his fault, like I was being, and I was looking back and then I was like I don't even want to.
Speaker 1:I left like I went to the bottom of the hill like I left.
Speaker 2:I was like I don't want to race. I came back and raced the next day. Oh my gosh the guy who was like the king of cross, this guy who I also I just met that day. I didn't know that guy that was like gosh have you ever talked to drummond about this?
Speaker 1:no, oh okay, but ask him about it. Yeah, he probably has no clue.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's probably like oh I remember when that guy was making fun of my dad yeah, and he wasn't making fun of him, but he was just like. This guy ran right off the course and this other guy had also never raced Cross.
Speaker 1:And so there's a bunch of newbies who were just Cross is a great way to come up with a whole bunch of stories, yeah, and they usually end with something like that. That's either like on a practice or dumb, or like, yeah, I was just trying to like do something little. And do you remember Phil Carlson? Did you ever know him? I think he might've been out before you came back and got into it all. But Phil, one time he was multi-sport guy and he ended up doing gravel stuff and he's done random things. But Phil, he lives in Arizona now.
Speaker 1:He at Sheridan practice, right, like a weekly practice thing. They had the um plastic barriers just laying on the ground so they were like practicing, like bunny hopping them as they were just laying on the grass. Phil goes to do his first one, again full multi-sport guy, and that's from my own heart. Like I get it, bunny hops it and first time gets like two inches off the ground, blows, blows out his collarbone, like not even break, like destroys it, and like the ride hasn't started. I'm like, yeah, this is why you need to like not do things that you're not comfortable with. Yes, because then somebody had to haul him off, take him to the hospital. He had surgery plates the whole thing. He was out for a long time. I'm like, yeah, this is what cross is good for. Yeah, it's super fun, it's it's the hardest thing I've ever done.
Speaker 2:Yeah, super hard, super hard, and it's kind of not enjoyable when you're in it. No, no, definitely not.
Speaker 1:You're like, why did the suffering stops pretty quick because you're so far in the back. You just like, at that point, ride comfortably hard, yeah.
Speaker 2:And do your own thing. Yeah yeah, one other Drummond story. One of my favorite races was I was the TLC race, or TLC used to put on a race out in I forget where it was, somewhere until Sepulpa maybe or Sand Springs, and I don't even remember what category this would have been. Maybe it was the threes and, uh, aubrey was racing with us and, like the fun part about cross is you end up in battles like no matter what position you're in it doesn't like you're not.
Speaker 2:You know, if it's first and second, you're battling first and second. If you're 50th and 51st, the fun part is to find the battle. Who am I? Who's my person? Yeah, Aubrey, and I became that in that race. It was so fun.
Speaker 1:She was probably like a 12-year-old, I'm sure she was. There's a picture of the finish line. She beat me. That's even better. You need to frame that it was.
Speaker 2:Um, but it was so much fun I was like this. That's when I realized like, oh, the battle, like cross, is enjoyable Even if you're not winning. Um, do you have that picture? It's on Facebook. I'm sure you need to find that picture and keep it, cause that's pretty awesome. Yeah, but that was a super, super fun, and you know, cross is notorious for heckling, so every lap. You're hearing it, you're getting beat by a girl. I'm like so were you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you quit, yeah, exactly but that was a really, really fun race. Um, yeah, cross is great to spectate.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that they are bringing a little fun version back like truly just a fun play version back at wheeler. I don't remember, can't remember what it's called sb, stg cx, yeah, stg cx, okay, yeah, we're doing that again this year. The plan is yeah, okay, that's so fun. Yeah, so everybody needs to stay tuned for that. At least come out and heckle or watch. Yeah, it's truly like I wore a different outfit every time last year, so amazing yeah, we got photos of all of them.
Speaker 1:I don't know if I'm gonna be able to do that again. That took a lot of work. Yeah, I'm sure it started out as being like I'm just going to do this once and it's going to be funny. And then I was like maybe somebody else will start doing it. And then nobody did it. But then it was like I was stuck, like it was my thing for the season.
Speaker 2:That's who you were. Yeah, yeah, so I don't know if I'm going to keep doing that. Cigarette was awesome Like race.
Speaker 1:That's my wallpaper, or on it yeah, because the picture is close up of me with, like, my daisy dukes on and the cigarette hanging out of my mouth on my bike, yeah, and so it's very clear that it's a terrible picture, right and but some people will never say a word. I'm like I know you see, you saw, I know you saw that, but I would obviously say something if somebody had been, but no, not very many people was great.
Speaker 2:And then the. They were all great, but the other one that was memorable was, uh, I think it was the tri.
Speaker 1:you were like, yeah, triathlete, you had goggles on maybe for like a lap or two, and then they got fogged up. I couldn't see anything there's.
Speaker 2:And then the next lap they were yeah, I think it made it like a lap and a half and they were so fogged up I couldn't see anything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that one was that. One that wasn't very well thought out. The other one with the long hair that I had put in for my white trash, one that was whenever I was. All of the women's themes, that's what it was.
Speaker 1:I was all of the women's rides themes yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, so I'll see if I can come up at least something for the first one. Yeah, yeah, so maybe we can do a theme. Yeah, I'll come up with something, but uh, yeah, and people need to check that out because I it was super fun. Yeah, um, it's a little bit. A lot of play, a little bit of racing. Yeah, um, but I would love to see some more practice stuff or races. Come back to the city um, yeah, we, we talk about it, but maybe there's something that can be done there, yeah.
Speaker 1:Um, so when you got into the mountain bike racing and then you got into the cross racing, how quick after that did like the crit stuff start. And then kind of where did you? Where did you find like I'm all in, this is my thing, yeah, Like.
Speaker 2:I'm all in on this now. Um, I think once I got into cross I was like I'm I'm all in, but I was like I know it's going to take me a minute again. I'm pretty timid, um, but I started go to going to wheeler. Um, which again was another like big stepping stone because, like wheeler at that time was arapaho and it's like okay, it's one thing to like line up with some threes at a mountain bike race and then, even if they line up with twos, they're like okay, these guys are actually were similar fitness level. And then cross, it's still a little bit intimidating but there's a beer and there's hand ups and if you crash, like no one's mad that you cut the corner, they're like oh, that was amazing.
Speaker 2:I saw you go over the bars but crits is like okay if I crash. A lot of people are crashing and like I'm showing up in arapaho resources this year Like you got Ricky Randall and Stefan and Bybee and Koontz. And like these guys are like living together and in my eyes like knowing what I know now, like it's different, but like in my eyes like these were legends.
Speaker 1:They were local pros, I mean yeah, legit local pros.
Speaker 2:And so that was another big stepping stone. I went to Wheeler and like watched from afar, like I, you know, stayed in the grass and say hello to anyone, stayed in the grass, and then I was like, um, they started doing the cat fives at five and back then, like Andy and Hodges and some of the Rapahoe guys would like sit on the back. I thought that was great.
Speaker 1:I loved it. That's how I got into it. That was a great touch.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so they would. You know you'd get spit off. It doesn't matter how fit you are, like your first crit you're, you don't have a clue, you're gonna get spit off. And so, like they're back there like okay, do this, do that, do this, do that. And they were great, they were, they were amazing. And so started doing the fives and so it was wheeler and then, um, back then we had a lot more local crits and so started doing like the enid crit, um, sand springs, like there's a lot of crits in this area, and so just kind of like started in the fives and went up and then finally raced my first tulsa, tough, and crashed, like everyone does every year. But so I would say, but but like I did cross for maybe a full year, I did mountain bikes for maybe two years and then cross for a year and then kind of started going to wheeler more and getting into crits and then now do a little of everything.
Speaker 1:A little of everything do you out of all and you do some gravel stuff and all that out of all of it. What's? What's your absolute favorite?
Speaker 2:like if you could just pick one I think probably at this point my wife would kill me for saying this. But her answer is cross, like, like last year I was like should I sell my cross specific bike? It's a gravel bike, it's a road bike with it can fit fat tires. You know, it's like should I sell my cross specific bike bike? And she blew up on me. She's like you should absolutely not set like we're just because you had a kid this year and you didn't get to rate you were racing next year.
Speaker 2:Okay, his name is Mills. It sounds like a cyclocross name. It does. So I should say cross, but maybe gravel, like. I've really grown to love gravel. Why? What is it that you love about gravel? What I dislike about crits is that anyone can win, which is a great thing, but for me, I'm not the guy that's ever going to dive on the last corner. I'm honestly probably not even going to sprint if I'm top 10, because I'm like I've seen how this ends for a lot of folks and it's not nice. So, like, if you know like people are always like how come you didn't move to the twos and crits? I'm like because I have to win in a breakaway, because I'm not going to dive on the corner.
Speaker 1:Sometimes moving up is not better, yeah.
Speaker 2:So like, um, yeah, that's what I dislike about crits is like it's not about your fitness, it's about and it's and even in the lower categories and even in some, even in the twos and ones, to some extent it's not about skill either. It's just about like, do you have the guts or you haven't experienced the crash yet to not do it? And I don't have that for crits. But with gravel it's like it's pure fitness. There's skill involved because you have to be able to ride your bike. You know, if you mountain bike or you've done cross, you have a benefit in gravel.
Speaker 2:But gravel is like you got to be able to hold rob's wheel. Yeah, like rob's a guy locally who you got to beat rob reed, reed, foster, dimsey and emerson. You know cook hodges those guys and you know I'm definitely not beating those guys. But I have a better chance to hold on to their wheel and gravel than I ever do in a crit, because unless the crit is like really long and there's four in and it's not even four quarters, four corners, because then it's fast and I'm scared there. But you know the only like I do well in road races, and we don't have those. So gravel is the next best thing, yeah, so I would probably say gravel, but my CX soul wants to say cyclocross. Okay, do you like?
Speaker 1:do you like the length of gravel? Because gravel, you're going to be out there three, five, six hours and cross it's like 50 minutes For a for a race.
Speaker 2:I love this. The G three 62 miles, miles like that's perfect.
Speaker 1:I hope more people listen to this, because I did a one with dempsey yesterday, so you guys will come out close together.
Speaker 2:Same, exact same, exact thing it's like I equate it to running a marathon versus a half marathon.
Speaker 2:Like running a marathon is great, like we all want, like I did, rule 300 this year we're gonna get into that I feel very accomplished for doing that, but I did not race it, like that was not a race for me, right, I can't race that, yeah, whereas 60 miles a lot of folks can race it and I can race it. You know, in Oklahoma anyway, that's three to three, three and a half three, 45, four hours, you know, and you can race that and you can train for that, like if you have a family, and it's an enjoyable length to train for, it's perfect. And even I've done some 50 miles that I'll make. This is also great, I agree. But I think the 60 to 65 is money.
Speaker 2:I agree, like the last couple of years for rule three, I'll do the 50 because it's like I can race this and like have a good time, get done, get showered, get eat and then laugh at everyone else. Exactly, there's something to be said about finishing a long race. But for me I can't race. No, it's especially gravel, it's a completion. And what's always been fascinating to me is like, even in a cat, one, two field for road racing, road racing you're racing like 80, 90 miles and then you're like oh, by the way, this newbie who just got into gravel go race 120 miles.
Speaker 2:Even if I was in a P1-2 race.
Speaker 1:I'm racing 80 on the road and it's not even close to the same timeline. Yeah, it's like what.
Speaker 2:Why are we asking people to do this?
Speaker 1:I thousand percent agree no-transcript.
Speaker 1:And for some people that is the pinnacle, like yeah and so, yeah, I agree, I think I think races need to come back a lot. Um, for whatever reason and cycling is all is so driven by ego in every single way Um, from what you buy, your kit, what you, who you hang out with everything, distances by everything is very driven by ego. But, for whatever reason, race promoters like, oh, you guys did a hundred, where we're going to do 120 mile race. And then somebody's like, well, we're going to do 150 mile race. And now you have. Now it seems like every good gravel event has these XL events now, which that's a different group of people. So I'm glad that they actually are catering to, like, ultra athletes, because I think that's that's a different genre. Yeah, but going from like 80 miles to 150 miles, it's kind of the same people but there's a lot of people that are never going to try.
Speaker 1:I'm not going to go do 120 150 mile race because I don't. I won't be out there long. It's miserable. Like you're gonna have a long long time of like not fun. Um, but an 80 mile race cool. Even 100 mile race is on the edge of like you're gonna have some time of not fun yeah.
Speaker 2:So my yeah, I agree. I think gravel. Gravel races should come down.
Speaker 1:60 is kind of the money, 60 to 80, I think 50 to 50 to 75 is like sweet spot, because newbies can train for that and it's a huge accomplishment, because they're going to be out there for six hours and they would attempt a 50 to 60, 70 mile race. They're not going to attempt. I think you're going to bring in more crowd that way too. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I have one complaint, complaint with with a lot of these gravel races and I have I put on grodeo so I feel like I can.
Speaker 2:Of course I can complain a little bit, but I I dislike that these races and when I say race I mean like 60 miles, not like what, anything more than like 80 I would call that like an adventure race. Yeah, there's a category, you know, the agree, the pasons, the, the people race in mid-south 100, like those guys are, they're racing, but that's not, that's not the typical market. Um, but I wish that these like 60 mile races would stick to a race and not an adventure. It seems like every 60 mile race they send us through somebody's private land. That's a field, that's like there's a road that is perfectly fine and it's gravel, but they want to send us right.
Speaker 1:So you don't like that private property, but as a mountain biker and a cross guy, I think that you would enjoy that piece. I just like that.
Speaker 2:It's like intentional and it's like, oh, we're just going to throw you this one mile, two mile section. That's like you're going gonna get off of and do this. It's like let's just rip it, okay, and so with grodeo, that was. Another thing was like let's make this like a enjoyable race. Like you don't have to get off your bike, you don't have to to climb over somebody's fence or duck over some barbed wire or you know, everyone has this great idea.
Speaker 1:Like we're gonna go through, do you like single track on gravel races? Uh, yeah, yeah, I'll take that. Yeah, because it yeah, cause it's clean. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:The problem is like we're going to go through my uncle Jim Bob's land and they go out and mow it and we're like well, cattle have been running this land for years.
Speaker 1:Yeah it there's not, that's not a road, uh huh, that is so.
Speaker 2:you like Random?
Speaker 1:junk. Yeah, okay, I understood that I can get behind that. Yeah, yeah, I do like the adventuring piece to the gravel races. Whenever they add in some single track or they add in things like that, I think it's cool because it just adds more excitement. But I totally agree, whenever they just mow a random field, yeah, and you just get beat to crap and it's just not enjoyable.
Speaker 2:Like last year we went and raced in Hinton, which I loved. Like they had us through some crazy roads, like all that's great, that's a road, that's a B road, it's a Jeep road, loved it. But it's like when they're like, oh, go right into someone's private land, it's like I don't want to do that. I mean, it always ends up bad.
Speaker 1:Someone always gets yelled at always something and it's like if we just stayed straight on the road right next to us. Yeah, yeah, and they're, and it usually just beats the pieces out of you. Oh, yeah, because the it's.
Speaker 2:The terrain is terrible, just beat up yeah and it's a good way.
Speaker 1:I mean, if you haven't experienced it yet, it's a really good way to pick up a great stomach bug going through a pasture, yeah, or have an experience or water from that cows enjoy. Yeah, yeah, so it's's, it's, it's really pleasant, yeah, Um. So all right. So let's kind of get into a little bit more of, like your riding and races and some of the stuff that you've done. I know we've talked about it. It was gosh. I think it was earlier or it was maybe later last year, earlier this year.
Speaker 1:We talked about you felt like you needed to start having some of your own memories, Cause you, like you said you talked about you felt like you needed to start having some of your own memories Cause you, like you said you talked about you've documented some things for people and you have been on the sidelines to help people or crew people, Um, which I have done that. And for the really stupid stuff. I enjoy that more than doing the stupid stuff, Cause you get to be a part of it, but you don't have to like completely suffer, Um, for you. You decided, like I need to start making some of my memories, so you stepped it up a little bit Cause. I want to talk about your experiences and some of the fun experiences that you've witnessed.
Speaker 1:Um so you did Washtau and I'm asking you about this selfishly because I've always wanted to do it. I've never wanted to train through the winter. I'm like I'm never in shape for that. Yeah, Um. So last year I got to train through the winter and I was like, okay, this year I'm gonna make that race happen because it wasn't as miserable as I thought it was gonna be training through the winter. So that's that's on my list actually for me to do in the spring and I'm excited about it. Let's talk about your experience with it.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I I think the conversation you're talking about is I had mentioned to you that I need my own ghost stories yeah, that's it yeah, one of the things I really enjoy about cycling in oklahoma is they're like we have the caliber of cycling in oklahoma is is deep, like we have some really talented folks surprisingly deep, yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of ghost stories, like you know. You've got the guys that ridden across the state. You've got the old bermuda. Like there are some legends that have done some really cool stuff and that doesn't happen as much anymore, probably because they've learned their lesson. But there's all these ghost stories of like, okay, you know, if you get Jason Waddell going on Bermuda, you're like you know that ride is wild. They've got great stories.
Speaker 2:Hodges has got stories. Andy, like you know, everyone's got these ghost stories. Like I don't have any ghost stories. I'm going to do my own ghost stories and so, um, I knew that we were having mills and so, like my training is going to going to going to drop, but I'm still going to be able to prioritize races and events. So it's like, okay, well, I go do some events even if you're not training for them. Like that's how the ghost stories happen.
Speaker 2:I didn't train for this, but I I ran mid South 50 K in 2020, like the day before the world shut down, and I ran eight miles as my training before that Were you destroyed after that I had one blister and I was, I was, I was okay. I mean, it was slow, I was slow.
Speaker 1:Still, I can't believe you weren't just broken in half.
Speaker 2:But anyway, I was like I think I told you earlier this year that I need some ghost stories. And so, yeah, rob and I did Ouachita Challenge the gravel portion last year, and we didn't even consider the mountain bike, we just heard stories of it, seen the pictures, and we're like that's not for us. And then so we Was the gravel fun. Yeah, it was great. So last year we went and did the gravel race. Rob and I did and camped and it was amazing. So it was a highlight of the year. The race was was great. And then we were like we should come back and do the mountain bike race the next day. And so that's what we did this year when camped on the Ouachita river, um did the gravel race and so we signed up for the double.
Speaker 2:So then you're how long is the gravel race? 60 miles or 65, something like that. Yeah, it's like the, the money mark, yeah, and it's a lot of climbing, though it's a ton of climbing and it basically like it's on the roads and the b roads that it's like. If you look at the maps it's, it looks like you did both races twice. Okay, but with the gravel race you're always on gravel roads, you're never on single track, um, and then it's the opposite. For for what? The mountain bike race? You're, you're on gravel roads as connectors, okay, um, but did the the gravel race? And then rob and I hadn't rid anything out, anything at all out there for the mountain bike race. The gravel race went fine. Um, wasn't expecting to hang with rob, and I think sam pickman was there.
Speaker 1:Uh, lucas, strain, like some really heavy hitters, like so did you ride it aggressively, or were you like, hey, this is gonna be a fun weekend of riding and I'm just gonna like cruise?
Speaker 2:I gave it like a race effort until I was, until I couldn't. There's a lot of climbing and yeah, um, I got popped on the climb, um, I don't know, maybe 20 or so miles in and I was like, yeah, I expected this, just didn't know when it was gonna happen. Um, so the gravel race was fine. Um, the mountain bike race, although was one of the, uh, most challenging things I've probably ever done, and not even physically like I kept that whole weekend. I kept being like I haven't been training like I normally have. When are the wheels gonna fall off the body? Right? And they never did like I felt. Fine, that's impressive.
Speaker 2:Um didn't cramp, which is another thing I'm known for didn't cramp all weekend, um, but I was the most scared I've ever been in my life. There are these switchbacks that no one told me about. Everyone warned me about the rock gardens and you're gonna have to walk them. You know, we talked to drummond before and he's like do this, do this, this? You know this is what the course is like, and so I knew I wasn't necessarily worried about any of the stuff that I was like I'm walking that like that doesn't bother me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I have no ego when it comes to that stuff, um.
Speaker 2:But what was no one told me about is the bench cut, bench cut switchbacks which are like it's like 15, 18 miles. Oh my gosh, bench cut trail way up in the mountains where, like, if you look one direction, it's it's not like I'm gonna slide, it's like you're sliding. For a while no one warned me about that, which is probably a good thing because I would have been terrified. But and most of it was late it was on the Womble trail. So everyone, everyone warns you the first half of the race is really hard. It's really walk, rocky, you're going to walk and I did all of that. And then, like the Womble is amazing, it's going to be great.
Speaker 2:And you get on the Womble and it was like it's not like skip, but it's the level of skip the beginning is, and the level of skip the beginning is, and I was like I've got it made. I was catching people. I was like this is awesome, I'm gonna kill it. Well, then that lasts for like four or five miles and then it turns into like proper mountain bike trail, okay, and it's not rocky, but it's bench cut switchbacks way up, and you're climbing, you're descending and you're on, you're on single track. How wide is it like? 12 to 15 inches like narrow, it's narrow.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. And so at that point it wouldn't even have mattered if I was mentally or physically fatigued, because I couldn't even think about, about anything, I didn't take a drink of water for 15, 18 miles.
Speaker 2:You know it's like you can't look down. You can't look down, you just stay straight. My, my, my brain was like mush, mush, like. When I crossed the finish line, tanner was like how was it? And I was just like I feel completely fine, but I feel like I've been awake for 72 hours, like my mind. I was so scared, I was terrified, like my stomach was in knots, I thought I was gonna puke and it was miles and miles and miles of that. Oh my gosh. Finally it ends uh-huh and I can you, I'm asking people like hey, Gajan, how much more of this stuff do we have?
Speaker 2:And they're like you know, one, one or two more climbs, Isn't that so when you're in?
Speaker 1:that and you come up on people, do they just like how do you get around people at that point?
Speaker 2:I at first I was banking on them getting out of the way, like okay, you gonna hear me and I'm not a rude guy on the trail by any means. And that didn't happen. Like they they're. They're also suffering, right, and we're not winning the race right anyway, so it doesn't really matter. But I was so scared that it was hard for me to not just smash like I. I was had a heart rate prs, but not because, like I, felt good.
Speaker 2:It was because I was like I gotta get this over with, like just get out, just get out of here, get to the next tree, get to the next corner. And so I finally had to be like, okay, there's a guy or gal in front of me Like, ease up, manage your pace so you don't catch them in an awkward place, because that would be even worse.
Speaker 1:Because there's some spots that you can get around.
Speaker 2:Yeah, where people walk and it's like, okay and all of that. I was able to clear a lot of pitchy climbs that I was able to clear, but there was no rocks. Yeah, but I was, um, I could climb good enough that I could get around some folks when they when they would pop off. But that finally ends and then everyone's like this is an old school race, so there's no gps file, it's all markers and their. Their markers are like two inch by three inch and you had time goals I did personal time yeah, six and a half.
Speaker 2:What I tell you was six and a, something like that, six or six and a half yeah something like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I had based it on other folks that I had done in the past. That I was like I feel like we're similar and I was on track for all of that. I was actually on track for five and a half hours for a while. There was a guy that I linked up with that I'd caught. That was like I've done this for like eight years, five and a half pace every year. I'm on track for it right now and I'm like dropping them and I'm like that's amazing. But then I get to this point where there there's it's an old school style. So no GPS. Rob and I found a GPS of someone else from last year, so we loaded that just in case.
Speaker 2:Well, every time we saw an arrow I would look and be like, oh, this is right. And everyone kept saying when you get to the gravel road after the womble, you're done, like it's over. So we got to it. I didn't see an arrow because it had fallen and I was like we're done. I look left, there are riders. So I go left down these two massive descents.
Speaker 2:A guy comes barreling by me and he has you pick up two zip ties as like um check marks. He had the other one and he looked at mine and, uh, I think he had a bit of an ego because he like called me out and I was like, okay, but anyway, he's like you only have one zip tie. And I looked and he had two and I was like where'd you get it? And he was like it's that climb, oh gosh.
Speaker 2:So then I go back and I still didn't see the arrow. So then there's trail across that gravel and so I'm like I guess that's where I go. So I'm riding like a mile, mile and a half into this trail and then riders are coming towards me and they're like you're going the wrong direction. I was like, are you kidding me? So then I go up, back up, follow them and like you were supposed to go to the right on the gravel, not to the left. So what it is is you come out of where I came out originally, you go right and it's a loop that puts you on the trail I messed up, and then you go down.
Speaker 2:So I saw the people that were far enough ahead of me that they already done that. They're coming up the loop, yeah, okay. So then I go right and I'm just like I, and again I felt fine, like I wasn't super tired.
Speaker 1:You'd written so much more up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I was mentally just like. I just want this to be over with. Like like my stomach was fine, I wasn't cramping, I wasn't like even overly fatigued, I was just like but when you're over, you're over it. Yeah, the lake which is the last checkpoint. And, um, most of the volunteers for that race are the ham radio association from that area. Interesting, you know 70 to 90 year old guys and so I get down there.
Speaker 2:It's just like a little old man who's got his ham radio jacket on and he has nothing to do with the race besides, put the zip tie on your handlebars and I get down there. And he made a comment of like, oh, you found it. He had no clue that I was lost, but he's just, you know, making small talk. And then I kind of just was like, yeah, well, the sign was down this, you know. I kind of gave it to him and I had stepped off my bike at that time, and he put the have this section. And he was like, oh, because last year this whole section was underwater. And so then rob and I looked that night we had last year's somebody made it up from there like strava, oh man, well, last year this didn't exist.
Speaker 1:It was underwater, so like that's why so I screwed it up anyway.
Speaker 2:I was like kind of giving crap to this old man to get back on my bike and like pedal flip, you know, to get to catch my pedal miss, my pedal smoke, my shin hadn't crashed all day.
Speaker 1:Smoke, my smoke, my shin. Yeah, I'm like I deserve that for giving this guy who has.
Speaker 2:No, he didn't. He didn't put the GPS file on my computer, he didn't make the GPS file on my computer. He didn't make the wrong turn. So then I finished the ride, and it was a tough day.
Speaker 1:What was your time?
Speaker 2:I'd have to go.
Speaker 1:look, I think it was seven or maybe it was under, like 6.50, 6.45, something like that. So you took like an extra like 30 minutes of 45 minutes of play time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was like 45 minutes, I think.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, that's a lot of extra time A minutes I think a lot of extra time, yeah, a lot of extra time. Yeah for being an idiot no, so you got a good ghost story got a good ghost story. That's a good one and then you decided I need another one of those ghost stories, so I want to get into rule three, and then we're going to jump into a couple other things, um, but so rule three, you decided to do the hundred yeah, I was debating the longer one, the 200 to 200.
Speaker 2:What is wrong with you exactly? That's a big jump.
Speaker 1:It was a very big jump so you went with the hundred, yeah, and you got another ghost story and your uh famous cramps came back yeah, they did.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was a.
Speaker 1:That was a fun day I anybody that has not done that event. It's a must. Yeah, yeah, I do the 50 every year. I have no interest in the 100, zero interest. Yeah, the 50 is an absolute I would say it's my definitely top three events I've ever done in my life, like the weekend.
Speaker 2:Yes I was complaining about, you know, the local races having too much adventure in it.
Speaker 1:This race is full full adventure and I love it. Only it's amazing.
Speaker 2:You know what you're getting the event is crazy is great. Andy does a great job like the whole weekend is so fun even if you don't it's like an event that you don't even like. The baileys went, they didn't race, they just came and brought their mountain bikes, like that's the type of event it is. It's like you can come and have just as much fun, not, not?
Speaker 1:riding your bike. Brandon went with us last year and he didn't race. Yeah, it's great. Yeah, he just brought his mountain bike and went to his own thing. We'll be riding. Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 2:So did the hundred um was in the lead group for a long time. The lead group was massive and there got to be a point where I was like me, squire lawrence from tulsa and a couple of other guys that we were doing this downhill descent. One of the guys we were with paid for ride with gps and so you get all of andy's notes. They pop up if you pay for ride with gps and they're there's like 10 sections where it's like walk this, do not rail this section, like very big warnings.
Speaker 2:And in my head I'm like I know, andy created this and if Andy is telling me to slow down, like we should probably slow down, and so he's the other guys that calling out like hey, this is one of those sections, and they are just absolutely railing this downhill into a right hand. It's a forced right hand, like there's no straight. You're going off the trail and Squire and Sam Carr and I like looked at each other and like this is our limit, we're not doing this anymore. So we backed off. So then it was the three of us for a long time and then Sam and I both started getting cramps.
Speaker 1:Oh long was this.
Speaker 2:Oh, we started getting cramps, maybe 65 or so in something like that.
Speaker 1:There was like this long kind of I know it started quite a ways out. Yeah, it felt like.
Speaker 2:It felt like a. It was like a power line type climb.
Speaker 2:Like you know, and it was like really sunny or like no tree covers there, and both of us were like, oh, we're cramping, like I think he was behind me or I was behind him. One of us was like I'm cramping, you went around, and the other one was like no, because I'm also cramping. So Squire kind of went ahead and Sam and I were like all right, they're starting. But what was great and what was different for me is like normally when they happen it's lights out like cramps and it's cramps rest of the day. I had them for like maybe from mile 60, 65 up until like 85 and I could ride through them, which never is the case. I'm usually like I'm buckled over anything different.
Speaker 2:No, I mean, I, I drinking and eating like I normally would. So I don't, I don't know what changed there. Um, but I was able to manage them, and sam was able to too. And then we caught back up with squire and a couple other folks and then, um, maybe mile 80, 85, they hit, and they hit like they normally do. It was like you're not going anywhere until you stretch this out. And so it got to the point where, like it's, it's miserable and I'm by myself, it's hot and it's not even it wasn't even hot compared to like today. You know, today's like it was just the first. It was the first start of hot and it was like 84.
Speaker 2:You know it's like okay, I would love an 84 degree day yeah, um, but uh, they start in every climb I have to walk. I would try to ride them at first and you get halfway up, your one or both legs lock up. Then you have to stretch and then you have to walk and it's like, okay, keep your momentum into the climb, cyclocross off of it, walk, so then you don't have any pain of the cramp, cyclocross start on the downhill and you're good. So that's what I started doing. It was like every single gravel climb I could manage the pavement climbs and I was like, looking at my power meter, I was like if I go over 200 watts I'm going to cramp and then anything under that I'm good and those hills are so steep, they're so pitchy that you cannot do that right.
Speaker 2:And the pavement ones I could. I could like fake it enough because it was smoother. But with the gravel, like you're gonna slip and then you're gonna cramp and then it's gonna be awkward, you're gonna fall over and you know, like I was just yo-yoing with like five or six groups because like I would catch them and then I would cramp and have to stop and the last 10 miles of that race has got some super steep climbs yeah.
Speaker 2:With seven miles to go. I just finished. This aid station had caught a group of guys that I had yo-yoed with for miles and they were like what's going on with your cramps? You know, like they were, you know, talking to me and this was a paved climb and just not even paying attention, just holding their pace. And I apparently went over 200 and they both walked up and I just started screaming.
Speaker 2:So then I get off my bike and I'm just like yelling on the side of this road Cause they hurt so bad. I'm about to puke from how painful it is. I finally, like people are coming by and these again are the people I've yo-yoed with.
Speaker 1:Some are laughing, some are cheering, some are like so see it, see in an hour. Everybody's in at this point.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Everybody's committed to your cramps, yeah.
Speaker 2:Um, and so that happens, and then I finally make it to the finish and we have to go through the creek crossing, which I had gotten a text from, I think, josh or Haley Bailey. That was like hey, the creek crossing is deep, but it's shallow on the right. Well, I thought that meant it's shallow.
Speaker 2:Well, it only meant it was more shallow than the rest so it was like, instead of it being two feet, it was a foot and a half, like it was over your cr. The rest so it was like, instead of it being two feet, it was a foot and a half, like it was over your cranks, and I was not expecting that. So I go into it and I didn't clear the creek, which was not the cause of the cramps.
Speaker 2:I stepped off my bike, stepped on a slippery rock, which then jolted into a cramp, then I freak out like stretching that side and the other side locks up and then I'm just like wallowing in this creek and everyone's like yeah, tons of people, a hundred people that have been boozing in the creek and having the best time ever.
Speaker 1:Luckily, most of them, we are there to watch.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah most of them were friends. Uh, like ray. Uh grabbed my bike and said everyone was super helpful. But you know they're they're buckled over laughing because it's so funny yeah, it was great. Then I'm walking my bike and somebody was like you got a ride, and so I try to cyclocross back onto the bike and I lock up again yeah, it's slippery mud coming up out and it's steep, and then you have that steep like little, like two foot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, little thing to get over at the very top, yeah, yeah and then I get to, they have cyclo.
Speaker 2:They have actual cyclocross barriers you have to dismount and go over. Well, then again, when I got, I had finally gotten back on my bike, and then I see those, and when I get off I cramp up again.
Speaker 1:Oh my god and you're. All this is in within like 50 yards of the finish line, but it's twisty turny and you're like it's right there, can I not?
Speaker 2:and then I couldn't even walk. It was so my gosh and I could. Uh, andy was at the finish line and at this point there's hundreds of people around. Yeah, yeah, andy was just like you know, loving it, and I crossed the finish line and then I get a message from him later that night and he was like yeah, uh, cramps were the name of the game for everyone that day I was like well, doesn't make me feel any better because it was so painful, um, but yeah, that was a, that's a good one, that was day, but the thing with that race is like I will, I will go do the a hundred again.
Speaker 1:Really.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, yeah, that was so fun. Like the thing is that you can't, I can't race it, you know, I and I probably need to go even easier than I did this year, obviously because I cramped.
Speaker 1:But that a hundred is a hundred. There is no. It's a long, long day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a long day, but it's so pretty. It's so it's a is a great event. Um, one side note with cramps is I was cramping one time with a friend from Tulsa named Tom Moritz and, uh, you know he's like cracking up and he just made the comment like I've never had a cramp before in my life and I was just like I never say those words Tom like.
Speaker 1:I'm dying.
Speaker 2:He, he's like I've never had a cramp and I was like, oh man, I would love to be able to say that, for some reason, I cramps are.
Speaker 1:They're really funny watching someone. Oh, yeah, they are you. You feel like you're like muscles are coming out of your skin and off the bone. When you get them, like really good, yeah, I don't get them often I'll get twitchy and kind of get like that quad cramp or something here or there. Um, occasionally not as often as you do or severe, but this year I've had one of my.
Speaker 1:I had one of my episodes that cape and it was like after the, I had it towards the end and it happened in one of my abs which I never had the top left, one ab, just one, and it felt like I got stabbed yeah, it's painful, like hit me out of my abs, which I never have the top left, one ab, just one, and it felt like I got stabbed. Yeah, it's painful, like hit me out of nowhere, yeah, and I was like I just like made this like moaning, grunt sound and sax was like are you okay? And I was like I don't know what's going on. Yeah, and then afterwards that, when we got done and got back to the room, that's when I had like the full body lockups, like I was laying, laying up with the wall, um, with my feet against the wall because my arches kept cramping and so cause I had to walk so much that day and so.
Speaker 1:But when my so I was like figured it out, if I could put my feet flat against the wall they wouldn't curl. And then I was in the room by myself laying on the ground, still on my kit, and everything by myself laying on the ground, still on my kit, and everything. I figured that out and then I was like man, for me, if I put salt in my mouth and just hold it in there, it'll make the cramps go away. So I was trying to get to my bag of salt that was in my bag next to me, but I was having that stomach cramp again. I was like gosh, I just got to get there. Well, when I leaned over to try to get it, my right hamstring locked, and so when that happened, like it buckled me and I'd scooted like two inches away from the wall, which caused my feet to cramp. And then I'm battling that and I'm trying to like roll over and that caused my blower back on the left side to spasm.
Speaker 1:So I'm just like it was a disaster. It was such a mess but my quads cramped so hard Like I really thought they were going to break the bones is what it felt like it was awful I was so sore from it the next day. Yeah, like I'd done like a massive leg workout, like strength training workout, because the cramps are so severe.
Speaker 2:I'm like this is awful. We went to dinner for a Rose's birthday that night, Um, and my hands were cramping up like trying to just pick up my fork and like sit next to Josh and I was like look at my hand. And he's's like why are you doing that?
Speaker 1:I was like I'm not it's doing it on its own, miserable. Yeah, people that have them usually like, have a problem have you found anything that helps you?
Speaker 2:with nothing, rob's been trying to to help me, adding some, some like um, sodium citrate and stuff to my, to my mixes, which I have done in the past. But back to your early question. You know we we have, we have a kid and so when. I was packing for rule three.
Speaker 1:That bag did not make the cut so I didn't have it Gotcha so um has anything helped you or tried anything during, during the middle of a cramp, that would get it to go away? Pickle?
Speaker 2:juice will work, just to get it to go away, because it's like a mental receptor thing of like it just makes you think about something else, I guess, guess, or like triggers that, um. But the problem is like I get them so bad that like it's not, like oh, chug a pickle juice and they're gone. It's like that one's gone.
Speaker 2:But as soon as we hit the next climb or the next whatever they're coming again, like I did uh norman conquest last year, which is in july. It's coming up in a couple weeks and it's a hot one too, and I was just cramped up like rob soges and I, so it's usually in the heat, in the heat, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Like we roll. We were at the left-hand turn into the parking lot and I had to stop. It's like what are you doing? I've been. I've been been in marathon races, like my first marathon race. This was back when the OKC marathon used to go all the way down automobile alley. I'm at the Jaguar dealership. You can see the finish line. I had to stop and have my father-in-law stretch me because I was like I can't walk I got to figure something out or stick to the 60 mile races.
Speaker 1:There you go.
Speaker 2:Although I cramped at G3 last year, that's actually when.
Speaker 1:Tom told me.
Speaker 2:I've never cramped before Tom's time is coming.
Speaker 1:I hope not.
Speaker 2:Honestly, you don't want to at some point.
Speaker 1:Well, to kind of start wrapping this up, talking about the kiddo, how has training? Well, first off, you have to have an incredibly supportive spouse to have a new baby and still be able to go, race and train like super kudos to you and to her for working that out and making that happen, especially the first year and first kid and all that stuff like that's not not the typical, for sure. So you're very, very fortunate there. Um, how has has has training changed since you had the kiddo yeah, definitely has changed.
Speaker 2:But first shout out to em because definitely she's, she's there supporting yeah the good thing with em is she loves cycling, she loves a crit, she loves a mountain bike race. She loves, you know, she loves it all, like we've been to cyclocross worlds. We're talking about going to mountain bike, you know. Worlds, like you know, and we've been to flanders and bay and like she loves it. Um, like earlier didn't even get into any of that stuff. Yeah, I forgot about flanders and rub.
Speaker 1:Ruben, how did you forget about us?
Speaker 2:Like hey you have any fun stories on. You know I don't have anything. Flanders and Ruben We'll talk about that in a second, we'll do it. We'll do a cliff notes of that, okay, um, but she's just so we don't have to each find four hours on a Saturday to go ride. She loves to go watch it and she loves that I'm competing. I mentioned this. You're like should I do Tulsa tough? You know, with mills and stuff? She was like you're an idiot. Yes, you're doing Tulsa tough, like just go get dropped. Who cares? And so she will. She's very supportive. She will also like I try not to ever quit a race because she will. She will let me know. She does not care if I get last place at all, doesn't phase her if I get first, second, third, doesn't phase her if I get last place, doesn't phase her if I quit a race, you're gonna hear about it. Good for her. Unfortunately, john perkins heard about it at tilson. He, he didn't, he didn't, he didn't complete the weekend and he heard about it. Good, he got m's wrath. I love, love that. Anyway, shout out to her. She's very supportive in that area.
Speaker 2:But yeah, training has has definitely changed. Last year I did over 10,000 miles. I did most of my weeks for like 15 plus week or 15 hour plus weeks, a lot of zone two Like I basically latched myself onto Hodges and Rob when they were training for unbound and was like I'm not doing unbound but I'm doing everything you guys do. There was one training rate training ride that they did that I didn't do and it was because it was on the day of a crit, so I did the crit instead. So I just like attach myself to them and so like I've had a lot of big year years the last couple of years and this year it's like stopped. I've done like a lot of indoor stuff and it's shifted. I used to do like a lot of zone two, a lot of that type of ride like long rides, and I just can't do them Like I tried to do them on the trainer and I just don't have that.
Speaker 2:And so what I've pivoted to is like, okay, what do I need to be good at? Well, I need to be good for Wheeler, which is 35 to 45 minutes. So I got to be at knife fight every week because I got to go get my teeth kicked in. I got to know what this is going to feel like. You know, bln is a mile from my house and it's an hour and a half of steady hard, but it's like that's not going to do anything for me. So I drive to the city to do knife fight so that I, you know, so that I can have to hold, cook and Dempsey, and and so I chose like I've just tried to be more specific, like it's a lot more VO2, a lot more threshold only because I'm like I need to be good for Wheeler, I want to be good for cross. Those are similar type efforts. I've tried to do some mountain bike stuff. I'm wanting to do the fall stuff again. So I'm like, okay, just keep the knife sharp, but don't keep it. I don't have the steady state that.
Speaker 1:I used to have. Do you feel?
Speaker 2:that the sharp has gotten sharper. It seems that way. I'm honestly surprised. Like every, every segment, every race, everything I've done, that I'm like, besides tall stuff. Tall stuff is like, that's not for me I'm gonna do it, but I'm not gonna win it. But like wheeler, for example, like I've been in the mix and it's like, okay, when is this gonna stop?
Speaker 2:like this is not normal for me right um, with gravel races earlier this year, like I've done really well better than I would what I was expecting and it's like when is this gonna end? And I think it's just like I did a lot of base for the last couple years and I'm just like feeling those benefits it really makes total sense. Yeah, one thing that shanks said to me the other day. I was like I think like this is my eighth year, maybe, of cycling.
Speaker 2:He was like you might just be hitting that point where like you've done a lot of work, that like you're not going to backslide as quickly as like you can draw off. That like I definitely don't have. I can't come back like byby does you know, like he's got in hodges and those guys like they have 20 plus years. You know, like I'm not I'm not that, but I've put in enough to like I can take like a breather and not um, go to zero, go to zero. But the other big thing like this is part of what I was talking with you I think it was with you about when I mentioned the ghost stories a while ago which is I need to get mentally tougher. Like I can quit really easy.
Speaker 2:I don't quit a race because emily's not gonna let me quit the race but I will quit in my head, right in a segment at norman conquest which doesn't matter, like I will quit when it gets hard and what I like, like the people I looked up, look up to the most are the people that don't have quit in them.
Speaker 1:Like an option.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I've already mentioned their names a million times but Hodges and Rob and you know, all these other guys, like they don't quit, it doesn't matter if they're tired, it doesn't matter what they're doing, like they don't quit, and that's what I've aspired to do this year. I was like can't put in the big miles, but I can change my mindset. I can be like, okay, you belong here. Like for wheelers, for example. Like I switch my mind to set of being like, oh, you're the guy that doesn't like to corner and isn't great at cornering. And people are going to be like, oh, I want to get around ryan.
Speaker 2:And it's like I just tell myself I belong here and I try to stay fourth wheel rob's like anything past sixth is way hard, so stay third or fourth. And I just inserted myself. I was like I'm staying here and I don't win those races and I still get drops. But it's like, okay, mental shift, you belong here. Like, do it. And I've tried to to put that into crits and mountain bike and everything else. Like, okay, don't quit. Like even on uh segments and things like the hot zones, it's like, okay, this is a, this is intended to be a race effort. Like, use it as a race effort, like don't quit like.
Speaker 1:Well, the thing is, you know, clearly, some of those guys like their fitness is just superior and that just is what it is some of them are superior, but not by a lot.
Speaker 1:and so if you're feeling that way, they're feeling a version of that way, but it's hard to, it is hard.
Speaker 1:If you're feeling that way, they're feeling a version of that way, but it's hard to, it is hard, it's hard for everybody, and even they would probably admit it, uh, maybe to the right person of how hard it is to keep going and miserable, but they know it's going to ease up at some point, cause it can't keep going like this forever.
Speaker 1:Um, when you have guys like McCurk and stuff like that, they're not theirs, right, because they're not suffering like you're suffering, yeah, to stay there. So I totally understand and get that, because when I come to the knife fight, I suffer real early and it's how much do I want? Because then it gets to a point like why don't, why am, why am I breathing and miserable, back here at 188 heart rate and I have like 20 miles to go, like this sucks, like it's only going to get worse for me, you know, know, and so being able to fight through that there's a point. You know that you have to stop because you just can't do it anymore. But, yeah, changing that mindset, for that. That's a that's much harder than putting in the time, oh for sure so much harder, but it pays dividends, especially for the guys like I'm competing with.
Speaker 2:Like there are definitely guys that have been in our scene for a long time that are just hard to beat um, that that they don't even have to train and they're still hard to beat. But the guys that we're really competing with, like they don't. You can beat them that way, and so I've tried to fix that in my head, like okay, just go harder. Just go harder. You're good and it's okay to blow up, but get to the point where you're blowing up.
Speaker 2:Not when you're like I'm tired, if you blow up, it doesn't matter. It's like, okay, I got something out of this, now I know my limit, versus like I just was tired and I'm quitting, yeah. So I've tried to shift that. But yeah, most of my training has been vo2 threshold and a lot less, like three, four days a week, um. But then I've also still tried to maintain like one or two big rides and that's fallen. I've fallen short of that since, like tulsa tough and things, just because travel's gotten in the way.
Speaker 2:But like the endurance race um that we did in january, february at thunderbird, like that wash it all. One of the other reasons I just said yes to wash it all. I was like, okay, I'll get great training week, six hours on sunday and three or four hours on saturday, and and then same with rule of three. It's like, yes, I would I have more fun in the 50. Absolutely Would I? Could I race it? Are all my friends doing it? Yes, like all those things, but I need to have at least one. And that turned into an eight or whatever.
Speaker 1:It was like I got eight hours and so.
Speaker 2:I still try to maintain that. So get one or two here and there, but it's hard for me to be like to ask permission from Emily, even though she's super supportive. It's hard to be like I'm going to go do this Right, because I know down deep down under, like it doesn't matter, like as Troy Cowan would always say it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter. We're out here in spandex.
Speaker 2:It doesn't matter, and so it's like it does matter because we enjoy it and this is our hobby, but it's it's hard for me to be like can I go ride my bike for five hours? And it's like, no, just do two hours and make it hard and that's what me I mean me and Zach is perfect example.
Speaker 1:Me and Saks did that on Saturday. Saturday morning we did a gravel ride with a couple of buddies and we're out there riding and we were just cruising along and I'm like, well, this is going to end last like seven miles back to the car hard and you're going to get maybe not the same adaptations, but close enough for what we do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for what we do at our level and our fitness levels and our goals. Like close enough, yeah. So we just wrote the last like seven miles real hard and that just is what it is.
Speaker 2:And so, yeah, the other thing I've done is I've I've tried to be really careful about who I ride with, to make sure that like that happens. Like you know, I love BLM, that's like it's an easy ride for me to go do. But you know it sounds ego to say this, but it's not hard enough for it to get me what I need to get Right. And that's not because I'm super powerful, it's just it's a different type of hundred percent. So, like, got to go to knife fight, got to talk, I think that's a great way for anyone to learn from you on this.
Speaker 1:I had that this past year for the first time ever. Because I don't like I get scared to go. I don't think I've ever publicly admitted this Scared to go and do like these fast group rides, like knife fight. I know I'm going to get dropped. I know when I show up to knife fight if I'm not the weakest I'm in the bottom, like three to five people for sure, depending on how many people show up, but chances are I might be the worst. Same when I do the market to market ride and I'm like okay, so that scares me, so I don't go to them, um, cause I don't want to get dropped. It's, it is kind of embarrassing, but it's also it's like it sucks, like I feel like I'm decent and I put in all this work.
Speaker 2:And then you get dropped and you're like yeah, why the first one to get dropped?
Speaker 1:and then you're like, well then I'm gonna ride by myself, and then you have to pull back up to the regroup, all the last one all by yourself. So there is that whole mental piece to it. But that's how you get faster and that's a way to work in. If you don't want to do structured training or you don't have the time or ability to do that, like you work it in and pushing yourself way harder than if you were by yourself. Um, and I saw results of that last year because the first market to market ride I ever did, like it was I was. It was maybe one of the hardest rides I'd ever done in my entire life, physically, um, and then by the end of the year I was able to stay in. It was still really hard but I was able to stay in and then me and Saks kind of trained together for everything all the way through and then he started going and doing these mountain the night mountain bike rides and I don't like riding at night on the trail.
Speaker 1:I just I don't enjoy it at all, so I never went and did it. And what that? Ha, what happened to him? In that, like three months of him doing those and me not doing those, I saw him get so much faster and like leave me behind. And it was because he was riding with a fast group and they weren't doing structure or anything, it was just a bunch of fast dudes and he was getting pushed every single time he did it and he just got better and better and better just by riding with faster people and so it's a great difference, huge difference, yeah, and I think there's a time and place for it.
Speaker 1:You need that today, you go do it. If you need the recover right, then you go find the easy group ride, cause that makes you go easier than you would if you were riding by yourself, so it can go both directions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, dna, when they. When I first started riding with those guys, they used to do 10 minute um tempo pools. Well, when I started riding with them, my tempo was nowhere near their tempo and it's like you're lined up with Roland or Hodges or Andy or Bobby, like you know, like my tempo is not no, and you know I was wasn't close friends with them at the time, but I was enough friends that they'd be like you're not pulling off yet. We got to do 10 minutes, you're like, but I'm at VO2 for 10 minutes.
Speaker 2:There's multiple times where I'm like, well, back then I'd be like lined up with Bobby. I'm like, hey, let's pull off the next sign. And he's like this hasn't been 10 like we do.
Speaker 1:We do 10 minute pools and you're like okay.
Speaker 2:And then the next saturday you're like no, I go to that ride or not.
Speaker 1:And you're like yes, you go because this is how you know if you sit in the back you're not going to get any better. But that's why I haven't been in knife fights so far, because I didn't haven't really ridden for over two months. So I know I'm going to be not only the worst, but like the worst by like for sure, a lot of worst I was the worst two weeks ago.
Speaker 2:I was the worst by a lot. Yeah, it did sting, but it's okay. I got to rip the bandaid the next week or two. It's worth it. It's a good ride.
Speaker 1:It is good. Um well, before we get into that, let's do cliff notes. Version of either Rube or Flanders. I love both of them watch.
Speaker 2:It just gives me something to watch for three weeks, but I love the style of the classics.
Speaker 1:Yeah, classics are amazing because anybody can win. Yep, team tactics matter, but not as much. Yeah, um, and I just love watching like them just suffer over these long, miserable, crazy routes. So what was I rube is one that I would really like to see, oh, yeah, and go to, because I remember schlegel went whenever I worked at schlegel's. Yeah, he went, did the cervello thingy that they brought some of the vendors from and stuff um, what was it what? What was your takeaways and your experience in those races?
Speaker 2:like yeah, they were amazing. So we basically ripped off. Ripped off biff stevens, um, so he had done a trip maybe a year or two before and we just like got a hold of him. I was like what'd you guys do? And we just ripped off.
Speaker 2:And so Flanders was amazing because you can rent a van like a guide and they will take you to like six spots which include the start and the finish, and they have a live screen in the van. That's awesome. And they have food and drink in the van and you see the whole race and you get on course like six times and it's amazing, that's worth every penny. Oh yeah, and they stop for freets and yeah, it's, it's. And they go get them and bring them. Like it's amazing, it's. And it was like 200 bucks, like it was super cheap. Wow, well worth that.
Speaker 2:And at that, typically flanders is like the week, one week and then ruby is the next week. There's been like some shifts in that, um, the last couple years. But so we did flanders tour was amazing. Then we go do ruby. Well, they, they don't offer a tour because the roads and the area is just different, and so we sat like we went to the velodrome super early. We were there all day. It was cold, misty, rainy, the TV's on and it's not in English. You're just like watching the race and you have it pulled up on your phone, and so it was a fun day. But they have vendors in there for like food and freets and stuff, but it's really just freets and beer. The bathrooms are just a giant hole in the ground.
Speaker 1:Women, men, kids, everyone's in the same.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I felt bad for the ladies.
Speaker 1:It's old school.
Speaker 2:Yes, jeez, but then they have the junior race that starts earlier. So, you see them finish Um and then they come into the bell drum. That year it was, uh, was it uh, niels Paulet, and he did not win Um. Now I can't think of the guy that won. Anyway, they came in together a couple of ahead and right where uh, the dude from quick step one, like like that's the top of the velodrome, they do it twice. Uh, he attacked like right where we were standing and took that, which was really amazing.
Speaker 1:I got some really great, so it's just first come, first serve in the velodrome yeah, we brought a tulsa flag.
Speaker 2:Tom moritz, who I mentioned about the cramps, he went with us on that trip and we, they, brought a tulsa flag. That's awesome. So we were like all our friends, watch the live stream. We'll text you where we're at. Uh-huh, look for the tulsa flag. And that was really that was a super cool that was like a good tip, because then all our friends are like oh, we saw you six times, and then we saw in the velodrome.
Speaker 1:That's awesome because, uh, because yeah, so did, because, yeah, so did you like. Did you get to go either before or after? Out on the course we did. We did the Paris-Roubaix yeah.
Speaker 2:So we did the Sportif the day before the Paris-Roubaix. We all brought cross bikes with like 32 mil tires, which today, if I did it today, I'd bring my gravel bike with 45s, because it's.
Speaker 1:How brutal are those cobbles? It's brutal.
Speaker 2:My hands hurt for two weeks, my knuckles.
Speaker 1:Really Like how far did y'all ride?
Speaker 2:We did we were supposed to do. Three of us were supposed to do we were. Four of us were supposed to do the 90 mile route. Okay, three of us did 60. Tom Moritz went ahead and did the full 90. Okay, we all brought our gravel bikes or cross bikes with 32s. Tom brought his uh, a lay with road tires, like at that time, probably 23s or 25s, we're on the trail. Earlier that week and he was like something's rattling and he opened up his headset and the bearings came out.
Speaker 1:So we're on the side of this river looking for his bearings.
Speaker 2:We didn't find them all there's tons of bike shops there, but they're all commuter bike shops, nothing specialized. So he couldn't find it. He did the 90 miles, like, like. We were like I don't know how you did that, tom, and he was like it was amazing, but we did. I think it was 60 or so. And yeah, after every segment, like on, like opening your hands was so painful because your knuckles are just, they're just, especially for me. You're just gripping it. It's not like a gravel road, it's way worse than a gravel road.
Speaker 1:It's like the worst um like washboard gravel sections ever yes, but for constant, you know and there's no, getting around it. You know like, and then like you do that scary like you're gonna wreck, or is it just miserable we?
Speaker 2:were racing, for sure, but with, with just three of us and there were other people around, but it, you know, it felt safe but what a great.
Speaker 1:I don't know how there's not more crashes.
Speaker 2:Those guys are just talented, you know. But yeah, so we ended up cutting short. One of the highlights from that was we were we had just finished this Pave section and there were a group of like four or five French-speaking guys that were like tattooed up on steel fixed gears, oh my gosh, smoking cigarettes no-handed, shut up fixed gears, smoking cigarettes no handed, and we were just like dying, you know. We're like oh, our hands are so sore.
Speaker 1:And this is pretty late.
Speaker 2:So like we hit, we hit this like paved section and they come up next to us and like talking in French and, uh, I don't remember if they had helmets on, even maybe there's cycling caps, you know quintessential, like messenger type rider you know smoking cigarettes, just oh, one of them was singing, singing like a rap like a rap song in English Uh, and we were like these guys are legends, Like we're on cross bikes with 32s complaining and they did it on fixed gears, no brakes, smoking cigarettes, I was like these guys are legends.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's impressive, that's cool man. That's like yeah, that's impressive, that's cool man. That's like that's a good bucket list trip.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's worth it. Um it's amazing. I definitely, definitely recommend it.
Speaker 1:I did not have any. I had no clue. When did that? Yeah?
Speaker 2:biff has done it as well, if you ever want to pick his brain, but yeah that's awesome.
Speaker 1:All right, let's get into yard sale um you train with power I do yeah highest power number you've ever seen.
Speaker 2:Oh, like max power ever. Uh, I think I've done like low 1200s. Okay, was that cross race? Uh, no, it was. Um, I'm trying to think of that. What road race it would have been since. Or, uh, it was a road race in Tulsa, the one with the hill that ends on the dam.
Speaker 1:Okay, Okay, yeah, um, so I changed the equipment one, but you can still keep it under a hundred if you want. Favorite piece of equipment, no price, just favorite piece of any equipment you have. Hmm, let's say, excluding a bike.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure. I like a lightweight vest, like Rafa's lightweight vest. I use it like in the spring and the fall and the winter. It's like a clutch piece. It's so light that you can put it anywhere, so like you can go do knife fight. You can wear it to the segment, take it off, stuff it in New Jersey really easily, get really sweaty and then it's going to trap all that sweat in and keep you really warm. I have the long sleeve version. It's too. It's going to trap all that sweat in and keep you really warm. I have the long sleeve version. It's too. It's too warm, okay, but a lightweight training vest is like a great clutch.
Speaker 1:I have two and I think I just picked up a third this year of different layer levels of warm vests the best.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure, and a Marino base layer was also key yeah, okay, yeah for sure, and a merino base layer was also key. Yeah, okay, um, it's the hardest workout, hardest workout like dempsey.
Speaker 1:He told me he hates the like vo2 stuff they want off stuff.
Speaker 2:Vo2 is easier for me because I can mentally just be like it's short, it's short and quick. I'm definitely not like good at them, but he liked the 20 minute efforts. No, that that's not where I want to be. On the opposite, end.
Speaker 1:It's so funny how people have their yeah, I don't want to the other I don't want to do the long stuff.
Speaker 2:um, even like long sweet spot, like I'll do it, but it's not my favorite thing. I'd rather do like what's the one that? You're like I don't want any part of that. When Rob and Hodges are like let's go do a race effort, you're like I don't want any of that you know that's a good.
Speaker 1:that's a good one for a variety of reasons. Um, your worst ride and or race experience and it could be from like bonking mechanicals bit off more than you could chew whatever cramping.
Speaker 2:Uh, I did cramp quite a bit at rule of three, but that was such a great day that I'm not going to use that one to uh. Last year in the 50, I mean, I had so many punctures, aaron elliott made the mistake of the first puncture I got. It was like me and by b and I saw you when that happened that was very early.
Speaker 2:Elliot was like well aaron was like well, I'll wait with you. So then he was. He felt stuck the rest of the day because I proceeded to have like seven or eight more, oh my God. And then so that one was rough. And then washer taught challenge the year before I flatted three times and went through both of my tubes, had to bum a tube, had to cut the course, which ended up being the same distance. So then I felt like an idiot because I was like I took pavement at home but it was the same distance. But then I was like now I show up as a DNF and you rode the same and I rode the same distance.
Speaker 2:That's a pretty good one, um farthest you've ever ridden, uh would be um coffee brevet, brevet, however you say it um the the ride that judson occasionally puts on during fest of 500. It was like 100 and I think for me like 126, 127, something like that. Okay, it's a long day.
Speaker 1:Um, this one's a tough one, so you have to think about it for a second. If you don't come up with an answer, that's totally fine. What's something that people think is like really cool and you think is way overrated? It's a tough question, it takes some thought, so so you can kick that one around for a second if you need to. While you're thinking of that one, what's the one event that you want to do that you haven't done yet?
Speaker 2:I would love to go do Tour of america's dairy land actually even though I'd say crits is my, like, my least favorite watching it it seems like every race is like pro-am, like pro-am is kind of like the money as far in my mind for crits, because it's like 60 to 70 folks like riot racers really fun, really engaging, but it's not like everyone's like. Like tulsa tough is so hard and crashy because everyone like wants to win it. And pro-am was great because it was like leading up to tulsa tough, so like it was a really hard race but less people and no one's going crazy yeah, nobody's taking a chance and tour of america's dairy lands seems that way, so I really want to go do that.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, maybe that one I've done.
Speaker 1:Intelligence, yeah, which is a similar is there any gravel rides that you want to go? Do I? Still got rule three on my mind, so not necessarily, and I've done a couple gravel rides but do you ever want to go do like a bwr or sea otter or steamboat, any of those kinds of things, maybe steamboat um or big bikepacking adventure.
Speaker 2:Bikepacking adventure would be good. I've done a few of those and those are great. Um, I'm hesitant to say I would. I want to do Leadville because that's like a big like I mean, you got to actually. But that'd be like me saying I want to go do cape epic and then showing up and doing it like, okay, I don't actually want to do cape. Like leadville sounds cool. Rob's been hyping it up a lot lately and so that seems fun. I I got really into um kind of marathon mountain biking this year of like, oh, we should go do more of this, and then summer hits and you get busy down palo duro, I thought I would.
Speaker 2:I would like to do palo duro, make that happen. Um, that's an incredible race, yeah, so they're. Yeah, they're a handful that I would like to do, but okay, did you come up with any ideas?
Speaker 1:I need to ask this one, I think, early on, and let people think about or send it to them beforehand, because it's tough, tough one to come up with. So, but it could be like an equipment choice it could be glasses, it could be packs, it could be wheels, handlebar bag, ah, handlebar. People think they're cool and you're like what the heck?
Speaker 2:well, it's not even that they think they're cool. It's that it's when you spend the money on an aerial helmet, when you spend the money on the integrated bar stem combo that's a thousand dollars and you spend the money on the deep wheels and then you throw a handlebar bag on it that's worse than if you didn't even have any of that stuff just wear the other stuff and not like you don't.
Speaker 2:Don't, don't wear the tall socks up to your calf and the handlebar bag. It's not that I dislike the handlebar bag, it's just like okay you're, if you're going out for a gravel adventure and you're just chilling a hundred percent, and there's also only a handful of people that I've ever seen be able to effectively get into a handlebar bag. It's like, okay, we got to stop and get my handlebar bags, just get a frame bag or put it in your Jersey. You know you can get it, so maybe, maybe I handle.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's a good one. Yeah, I like that one. I know I always think the same thing when I especially when you go to a triathlon or any kind of multi-sport race and I'm like, dude, you have a $10,000 bike, you're not even in your arrows, you're not riding in your arrows, you're wearing a baggy jacket, but you have a $500 arrow helmet on and you have 74 gels taped to the top of your top two and I'm just like what is happening? There's so many both directions here, I don't know what's happening. Yet I always that's one of my favorite things is going to triathlons and seeing super expensive bikes and then they just completely blow all of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and to be clear, I've used a handlebar bag. I'm not, you know, I, but not while you're trying to go fast. But not while you're trying to go fast. I probably also was. I've just learned my lesson.
Speaker 1:Okay, cool. Is there anything else you want to touch on or bring up before we wrap this up? I don't think so. Cool, well, I appreciate you taking the time. Yeah, thanks for having me. I can't wait to see what the next ghost story is. Yeah, me too. Thanks, see ya.