HR can feel like a thankless profession. What better time to say "thank you" than on HR Professionals Day? In this episode of The People Purpose Podcast, Chas and Julie are thanking HR members everywhere and celebrating the profession.
HR can feel like a thankless profession. What better time to say "thank you" than on HR Professionals Day? In this episode of The People Purpose Podcast, Chas and Julie are thanking HR members everywhere and celebrating the profession.
Hey y'all. Welcome to the people purpose podcast, the show that explores all the ins and outs, challenges and opportunities, HR, people, managers and all people face at work every day. I am with my semi smiling co host, Julie. I, Jules,
Julie Develin:hi. We're kind of but
Chas Fields:you are so chipper before when we were kind of debriefing everything that we've got going on the next several weeks. But not so much right now. Like
Julie Develin:then you got me all cynical and whatnot.
Chas Fields:I I control your emotions. I get
Julie Develin:you do because I asked you a question. I asked you a question and you knew
Chas Fields:that snippy with employers gonna have this perception of us like, I think behind the scenes, they really hate each other no.
Julie Develin:Scenes, you know, it's it's funny. I feel for your wide Chas anyway.
Chas Fields:feel, feel, feel, what you feel what? four episodes over. Thanks for listening. Yeah,
Julie Develin:I'm just kidding. She's very, very lucky. Anyway, why are you laughing? Yes,
Chas Fields:she is. Yes, she
Julie Develin:definitely is. She definitely is. I'm going to ask you to tell me something good.
Chas Fields:You know, Julie, we actually will get to see each other next week. Oh, that's that's my something good. By the time this episode drops, it will be the week of but we'll get no the same week we're going to see each other. And that's always great. Julie, I enjoy seeing you in person. It's a lot of fun. We have to figure out I'm pretty sure we're only going to see each other for like 30 minutes, we're speaking at the same conference. That's beside the point. That's my something I'm not going to despise or to put you down?
Julie Develin:No. Let's let's work on our vocabulary. So
Chas Fields:I know, did you see this week I posted on LinkedIn. I said it wouldn't be an episode if we didn't put each other down just a little bit. And,
Julie Develin:you know, UKG was kind enough to post one of our outtakes and you know, when you and I were recording together, when we were in Fort Lauderdale in our western office, we we had a little funny joke. So if you haven't seen that go on UKG you can again check it out. Anyway,
Chas Fields:that's the Julie What's your something good is very
Julie Develin:simple this week Chas and it is the fact that drumroll please. Our professional day. When this episode when this episode hits, it's HR professionals day and HR professionals day, September 26 Every year now there's also an international HR professionals Day, which happens in May. So we don't want to leave our international friends out. But in the US. It's HR professionals day and it's what HR has in common with situational awareness. Johnny Appleseed pancakes dumplings. Shamu. Yeah, letters,
Chas Fields:right. Like it's national hand like love letter day. Yeah,
Julie Develin:I use that in a lot of my presentations, which by the way, I can't really do it much anymore, because everybody's catching on to it. I say what does HR have in common with these things? And the fact is, that is when those days fall on September 26. So it's Johnny Appleseed day on September 26. But it's also HR professionals day. And you know, this, this whole this whole HR professionals day thing really was is obviously near and dear to my heart because I'm I love HR, HR nerd. And, you know, my life and my career has been dedicated to the profession. And you know, what I recognized? Actually, last year, when I wrote a blog for Sherm on HR professionals day simply thanking HR folks for what they have done over the pandemic, because like many professions, HR is a thankless profession. It's the truth. And, and, you know, I don't think that we are we are, people don't come to the HR office or the payroll office and say, Thank you so much for everyone. Now, sometimes they do sometimes they do and you Certainly, you know, not saying that this is a universal thing, but generally when, when folks come to the office of, of the HR department, it's because they need something or something is wrong. So we are we are tasked with fixing, we are fixers, a lot of times we are adult babysitters, and, you know, that's just the nature of the beast, you know, compliance. I mean, you name it, we really are vital and pertinent to business continuity. Sure. Yeah. So I, I know, I went a little bit long there. But you know, I want I want to, I just want to make sure that folks recognize how much we you and I celebrate the profession. Yeah, yeah. And I'm also going to take that a step further and say, UK G celebrates the profession as well, they and
Chas Fields:they do a fabulous job of it, they do a fabulous job of it, we want to make sure you know, the, there's a there's a group of people, or if you're an HR department have one that is at the core of all of your people. You're the heartbeat in a lot of ways, right? And we thank you. Simply put, we thank you. Thank you, if you don't hear it on HR professionals day, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We also need to figure out how to lobby for an HR professionals week payroll gets a week did you get that?
Julie Develin:Let me let me say let me say a roll was awesome. Oh, yeah, no question probably deserves a week, because of all the stuff that they have to put up with. There can be there can be a whole discussion about how every profession should have a week right to say thank you or whatever. But, you know, this week, or this, this this episode, we are we are thanking HR and focusing on HR, its profession and, you know, focusing on some things that I think we need to talk about in HR from the perspective of we're going to get there. But let's talk about the business end of the day. You know, we always do that. Every episode. Okay, so there is an article on hbr.org by a lady named Jennifer moss and from this article, it's called burnout is about your workplace, not your people, Chas are our manager, Teresa who's fantastic. She, she always has a great quote about how burnout is a company problem, not a people problem. It's a culture problem, not a people problem, right. So that made me think of this. But so in this article, Jennifer moss talks about how researchers Oh, that was your quote was that your whole history
Chas Fields:says? She says she says it often. Oh,
Julie Develin:okay. I was thinking I was like I said that I was like, wait a minute, was that your picture or her picture? Literally, my head just went there. I was like, Wait a minute. Wait, was that your quote? Or like literally, you just got a glimpse into my head, everybody. You're welcome. But no matter who says it Chaz, right, that's right. That's right. It The fact is, it's a thing. So in this article, researchers look into how workplace stress impacts mortality and health costs in the US and found that it led to about 120,000 deaths, and nearly 109 190 billion with a B in spending each year. So yeah, so 625 million people. You know, the World Health Organization estimates that's how many people suffer from depression and anxiety. And they estimate that about a trillion dollars is lost in productivity each year as a result. So here's what here's why we bring up that stat today. And on HR professionals, Dana's certainly not to bring their house down. But it is because HR, we need to talk about self care for HR, but from a non fluff perspective. Right? Here's and we're gonna get more into that. And the scene here just to sort of set the scene for folks and Chazz, you have to help me remember, you know, my memories terrible. Did we talk about this on another episode about how I was able to pull several HR folks in my conferences, that my speeches before my speeches and ask them what's on their mind? And what's something we don't talk about enough in HR? Yeah, yeah, we've
Chas Fields:done that several times. Correct. Yeah. Yeah.
Julie Develin:Several times. Right. Because it's so but it's so interesting, right. And this is directly from the mind of the HR person. That's right. So so out of about 300 responses that I got to the question of what it was something we don't talk about enough in HR. A full 25% of those responses had to do with HR burnout, and HR, mental health and who takes care of HR, something around that.
Chas Fields:So yeah, I think what's interesting about the business side of the day, let's just take the HR profession right You had, let's say, 25% of the respondents of the 300. Right. So you know, whatever it is 75 Right. 75 people feel as though they are on the edge or within burnout. Right? Yeah. So what we already know, based on the trillion dollar lost in productivity each year, and I know that's attributed to anxiety and depression, right? Burnout can be a leading cause of that anxiousness and depression. And having dealt with relationships in my life that people have struggled with anxiety and depression, I can tell you, productivity is virtually non existent. Right, for some of those folks that literally can't get out of bed, because of the experience that they have with within their mental health. And what I find interesting about the trillion dollar productivity, I don't know how they measure that I would love to go back and read what Jennifer said in the article. However, if I can just take 75 People 300 and recognize we're losing an hour today, or two hours a day or three hours a day, simply because they mentally and physically cannot function. That number actually makes sense to me. Right? Yeah, even from even from a small portion. So when I look at this, like, I love that you said we're gonna take the fluff out of this, because we're going to take a little bit different approach and our last one, but what I will say is human resources, pros, right, and I use the term pros and professionals, there's a very big difference HR pros and HR professionals, you know, they are in a giving role, right, they are in a giving role. So if someone is not filling up the cover, the organization is not filling up your cup or your picture, if you will, how are you going to pour out. And the reality of it is, sometimes it's not the workplaces responsibility, sometimes it is to fill that cup, sometimes it's our personal responsibility to fill that cup. And sometimes it can be your partner, your spouse, the friends around you, things like that, that help you expand, you know, that sense of fulfillment beyond just the work that you're doing. And I think, for us to really talk about how to take care and prevent burnout, we need to define what burnout is,
Julie Develin:right. So, and we've done that a few times. But you know, from a good recap, it is I'm just saying, you know, burnout itself, and this is from the World Health Organization. So I want to be clear that this transcends, you know, international borders here. Bucha, burnout itself is really results in in stress, chronic workplace stress that we haven't been able to successfully manage. But here's the thing about that, you know, when we say we're not able to successfully manage it, there's lots of different reasons for each individual person, why they're not able to successfully manage that. And you know, you may feel your symptoms of burnout, maybe feelings of energy depletion, you might be exhausted, you might feel negative towards your job or negative towards your career, and maybe you just have productivity that's just down. Now, here's the other thing, your productivity may not actually be down, and you may feel like your productivity is down. Yeah, that's another sign of burnout. You know,
Chas Fields:the disconnect. There's a disconnect. Yeah, the disconnect leads to burnout.
Julie Develin:Absolutely. But what we need to recognize is that this is motional exhaustion, and it has a serious impact on employee wellbeing. And HR is at the forefront of taking care of employees who are going through burnout, but HR, our employees too. And they also experienced symptoms and signs of burnout. And it's important for us to recognize, you know, in a non fluff way, how we can identify those symptoms, but also how we can manage those symptoms.
Chas Fields:Yeah, I think what's really critical of this, and I know people, leaders who've experienced burnout, who have larger organizations that they carry the weight, and I know you've experienced this, Julie, in your past, you've shared your story, that they carry the weight of their entire team because they see the impact that whatever changes are going on within the organization or in their personal lives talking about the people they support. As a people leader. They carry that weight. And I genuinely think in all of my conversations with HR people, they carry the weight of an entire organization. Yeah, so so that, let's be clear that the emotional and physical impact when you are when you're doing your job, and there is some sort of disconnect, and you don't know where to source it. I would venture to say it's probably sourced in burnout, right? It really probably could be so what we know about burnout, lower levels of competence, right? Diminished employee engagement, negative impact on jobs satisfied Action retention is way way down potentially, the relationships with the customers we support, you know, we have quality control and in goods like in the in the goods industry, and sometimes in the service industry, right? Like you pick up the phone and you call and say this call may be recorded or monitored for customer service. I would love to know, by the way, if someone is in that industry, do they actually monitor the customer service? They got back on this, I would love to know that anyways. But but all of that leads the overall success of the business. So if we go down the path of reducing burnout for ourselves, as HR professionals, and again, the fluffy ways are important. I know we're joking about that.
Julie Develin:Fluffy, yeah, is oh, you should just go do yoga. Or you should just you should just journal or you know, listen, listen, in no way. Am I disparaging those things, those things are absolutely important. We
Chas Fields:do those things, you and I do those things.
Julie Develin:Let's be it. But let's be honest, let's be honest, that doesn't always work. That's right, long term that may solve your problem for the day. But let's look at how we can make things better for us in HR long term, not just today, not just tomorrow. But how do we mitigate this? Is this situation? You know, three months from now, a year from now? And how do we take this small rock? You know, from turning into a big boulder? How do we get to that point? Again, you know, Chaz, and I don't have all the answers here. But we we did want to talk about a couple of different ways that we think that can be actionable things that you as an individual, those of you who are listening, you as an individual can take control of this. And so often, we feel like we're out of control. But it's up to us to have that success mindset. It's up to us to have that growth mindset and to be open to trying new things. Because we've said it before, when we stay on autopilot, we are not advancing ourselves. We're not moving ourselves forward, we're not moving the organization forward. And it's only going to make things worse in the long run. So really, those of you listening, I really want you to think about you and your particular situation, and how some of these things can fit into that.
Chas Fields:Alright, Joe's three points. Do you want to go with number one? Or do you want me to? I mean, you I like number one? Yeah, number one, number one is right on my own. So number one, physical self care? Yeah. Okay. Here's the deal. All right. There's an often disconnect with Okay, I am going to work out I am going to do something physical for myself, right? Like that is the self care element. I also want you to think about it from a workplace element, the example that you set the discipline that it takes for physical, you know, exercise and what that does. So some of the key elements, and this is nothing new here. But Julie and I are both avid, we're very regimented, and how we work out and how we approach the day. But the cool part about physical activity, the push and pull for 20 minutes a day or doing something that is going to help reduce stress, improve your mood, and of course, boost your overall health. I think it is imperative for you to be a successful and continuously ambitious person to do something that requires exercise, right? Get your heart rate up a little bit, whether it's going to the gym, and I know you said excuse me, I know you said yoga classes, right? I do yoga, Julie, by the way, you should see my six five self doing yoga, it's hilarious. You know, going for a walk. But it's not just the physical, Julie, it's not because the physical was great. But it's also what we consume in our diet, right? And our technology, and in what we read, And you know, all of the different elements that that we don't necessarily think about that if we're stuck scrolling our phone mindlessly, don't get me wrong, I guilty of that almost every evening. But if I'm if I'm on the verge of of burnout, maybe I should consume something that's going to elevate my mood and elevate my thought and challenge what I'm thinking. So it's the consumption of the information, but also the consumption with our diet. Right? The Healthy Diet is critical. And look, here's the deal, y'all. I love good cheeseburger. I love wings. I spend more money on wings than I probably should in a year. The sodium content however, I work out on a consistent basis and I keep high energy. Julie, how many times do we get the question, man, we've really want your energy. How do you do it? And it's like, well, we love what we do. And we also diet and exercise.
Julie Develin:Right? Right. And this is not a referendum or this is not a this is not something that's in your life right now, it's completely understandable because Sure, taking intentional approach to making sure that we're taking care of ourselves from a diet and exercise perspective actually depends on a lot of different things. And I understand and I know Chazal understands that it also has to do with a lot of socio economic issues. Well, it's expensive to eat healthy. It's, you know, it's expensive. It is it's expensive, but we know that a lot of folks can't afford a gym membership. And that's okay. That's okay. Here's what I'm saying. You know, it's also about ability and inability to physically move your body. But here's the thing. You know, it when we talk about self care, from an exercise perspective, don't think that you have to go out and run marathons, right? It's not what we're saying there that scientific studies that have been done that are that are, it's scientifically proven that your mood is boosted by the serotonin levels that get boosted when you are physically active. So if you are in an HR role, and you're sitting behind a desk all day, I was guilty of that for 17 years. Or if you're not making sure that you're getting up here and there. Again, it's about taking control of these things. All right. So you know, just recognizing, you know, this is not saying we're trying to say this is without fluff, I want you all of you who are thinking who are listening to this, to take control of this success mindset, you have control over what you can control and what you can control is physically moving well, every day. And if you say I don't have time, put it into your schedule. That's the thing. Again, this is to prevent HR burnout. So the second thing that we need to talk about, and it's something that we think about a lot, but we don't always act on this. And it is emotional and mental self care, emotional and mental self care, from the perspective of what can I do, what can I take control of, to make sure that my mental health is in line with my physical health as well, because physical health is mental health, mental health, physical health, that's all of is aligned, you're gonna say some.
Chas Fields:Now, one of the things that you brought up here within this, and you haven't said it yet, is self awareness, right, and how you how you assess your emotional well being and the state of your well being. And that's that mindfulness piece, right. And what I will tell you is, this is something that I practice on a regular basis. And if you've ever heard my ethics talk, I talked about if you want to be a good ethical decision maker, you have to have a self awareness that you can separate the personal and professional, you can recognize when you are burnt out, you can recognize the leading things that are going to trigger you to cause burnout, right? Because what we know is if you're tired, or you're burnout, research proves that you are more likely to make a selfish decision that benefits you versus your organization. Obviously, it could benefit the organization, but it's going to benefit you more, right? So we have to be careful with that. And what I will tell you is in the mindfulness piece, Julie, we are on the go always as a society, right? Everything that we do in society is Go Go, go go go, right, like fast food, grocery, all of this stuff. That's a good thing. And convenient in a lot of ways. We also have to be present, right? So that mindfulness piece of being present and recognizing, okay, what can I control? What can I control, and if I can't control it, maybe there are things that I can do to influence it. But if you can't just leave it be right, you know,
Julie Develin:one thing you can do that's actionable, get a post it note, stick it somewhere, or wherever you need to stick it and put the president. That's it, little reminders. Again, these are things these are non fluffy things, things, that actionable thing you can do today, to get started on a path to better mental health to better physical health, right, about taking control of what you can control and not depending on other people to fix it for you. Because, because we're always going to get disappointed if we take that approach. Because, you know, folks are generally you know, looking to take care of themselves as well. And, you know, the organization that you work for, is ultimately going to benefit and here's the other thing, you know, by you taking control of your, what you can control in terms of a burnout perspective, in HR, that energy that you exude and that positivity is going to spill over into the rest of the workforce.
Chas Fields:It's so true. We talked about leading by example, and I know that's so cliche, but it's so so true. You know when when you see a leader or an exec kind of leader or stakeholder or frontline employee who has a smile on their face, and is a positive person or is exuding positive energy. You experienced that and you're like, wow, what are they? Let's say that you don't, in that moment become a positive, like the cheery, happy, positive person. But you recognize what what are they? What are they doing different? Right? Wow, every time I talk to so and so they always have such a great attitude, you know, and that becomes a portion of the conversation and the same toe in the in the in the same machine, if you will, you can do that, too. If you do what we're saying within these practices, right? Right, it's an opportunity for you to bring on that behavior for yourself. As long as you try and be present in the moment. It's funny, you mentioned like a post it note, I literally have all of these things all around my computer. Right? And I wish I could just have a full arm sleeve tattoo of all of the reminders. Tell us what is it tell? Tell us one of them. So for me, it's keep a small circle, right? It's keep a small circle, I don't need to be friends with everyone, even though I love getting to know people. But if I keep a small circle, and I'm fed by that small circle, it's easier for me to be friendly with people that aren't in that circle, other
Julie Develin:conversation of who you surround yourself with. Yeah, yeah. And how a lot of times we do that, obviously, sometimes we don't understandable. But you know, I want to get to the last point here. Something that again, we think about often, but maybe we don't act on these things. And sometimes chance we have to take a look at our professional in our career, self care. Remembering that couldn't care of ourselves from this perspective is not selfish, but it's really essential.
Chas Fields:Say, oh, say that one more time. That's a good
Julie Develin:thing. care of ourselves is not selfish, but it's essential for our growth. It's essential for our mental health, it's essential for, you know, your success in your career. Success is essential for your success in life. And, you know, I think that part of this, and I love what you mentioned about keeping a small circle, you know, one of the things that we can do, from a professional and career self care perspective is to set boundaries, to establish clear boundaries between work to establish clear boundaries between things that are going on in our perfect life, our personal life, to perfect life. Wow, that was Freudian. Right to to prevent us from from from burning out and overextending ourselves, you know, avoiding working excessive hours. Chaz, I need to do a better job of this. I know you're, you know, yeah, it's intentional.
Chas Fields:It's true. I think what I love about the career self care is it's okay to dream a little bit. It's okay to dream a little bit. And you may have you may be sitting here thinking, okay, Chas and Julie, have been a practitioner for 20 years. And it would be so hard for me to make the jump, but I've always wanted to.dot.my question is, what is stopping you? If it's if it's fear, uncertainty, doubt those things that you manage internally with your emotions? Listen, I encourage you to at least dip your toe in the water and something maybe take a half step towards that, start educating yourself, start planning out what does the next one to three to five years look like if I want to pursue that passion, and really plan it out. Because in our minds, what we do Julius, we go, go, go, go go, right. And it's like, Oh, I really want to do that one thing. And then all of a sudden, you get an email in your inbox, or someone knocks on your door, or they walk in, and you forget about it, right? You forget about it, and then it comes up when you're burnout like, Man, why why didn't I just plan that out six 912 months ago, because I would already be a year into that passion or dream.
Julie Develin:Professional career self care, Chas also has to do with the conversations we have and the conversations we don't have about the tool about the tools that we need to get our jobs done, and the tools that we need to grow. So you know, we look at it from an HR software perspective, right? Obviously, obviously, you know, he has a great product and all of that, and people that we come in contact with from a in an HR role on a day to day basis. A lot of times they don't know how to have the conversation to say, how do I you know, how do I ask for this tool? How do I ask for this? How do I do that? That is professional and professional self care? That is your self care? That's right, having those conversations. So, you know, that's a whole other conversation, I think, but recognizing that that professional and career self care is equally as important as emotional and mental and physical self care. And, you know, you have to look at your role too. And obviously, coming from a place of privilege. I understand that not everybody has the luxury of just being able to go and change jobs. Right. A lot of people can't do that. But but we need to find what fills our cup, find what fills our cup in this non fluffy way by taking control of our art, our mindset and making sure that we are recognizing the steps that we can take to help move ourselves forward and not regress into that HR burnout.
Chas Fields:That's right. That's right. So Julie, once you find your purpose entity,
Julie Develin:yeah, well, I found my purpose in that I feel like we could do another hour on this topic. And I love this topic. I hate that it's happening for HR, folks. But I think that it's important for us to continue this conversation, and maybe we will in a future episode. But I think that what I find my purpose in and what I want everyone to recognize is that it's most important to find what things actually work for you. What works for someone else from a self care perspective, may not work for you, and what works for you this week might not work next week. And it's okay to pivot and it's okay to not be okay. But what's not okay is for us to depend on other people to fix things for us. We have to take that mindset on our own.
Chas Fields:That's right. I love that you said that. I think the only thing that I would take away in addition to that is don't be afraid to plan out your dream. You may not be able to execute it right now. But don't be afraid to plan out your dream and don't let burnout. And the fact that you may or may not be unappreciated in your current role, to limit what your future holds, right? It's today, you know what, and guess what, maybe you don't have a job tomorrow. But that company is going to turn the lights on and continue to grow and continue to do whatever they need to focus on you fill your cup, and don't be afraid to drink. So with that, Julie normally before we would go into the reminders, but we have a special thing coming up. I'm a little bummed about this, by the way. I was already scheduled to speak. And we were asked to go to London and do some international speaking and talking and podcasting. And Julie, I'm not going to London. Real quick. Julie, are you going to London, going
Julie Develin:to London. It was the one week that I didn't have a speaking gig literally until end of the year. I'm pretty sure it's the only week. And looking forward to that. So you're going to be hearing more about our international Chas and Julie's podcast goes international people was international, right. And
Chas Fields:Chas is in the States.
Julie Develin:You can G UK G has a very, very big internationally and we're going to be exploring more of that recognizing by the way that this podcast is listened to by folks in many many different countries which we appreciate shout
Chas Fields:out shout out to Finland in the UK. It's thank you for putting us on the charts there, whoever we are, so
Julie Develin:appreciate it. So really looking forward to that podcast. So Chas, I'm gonna wrap things up here a few reminders for relieved Don't forget like subscribe, I'll use the hashtag people purpose pod social media sites. Be sure to check out the latest blogs and research from the UK G workforce Institute by visiting workforce institute.org Thank you all happy HR professionals day and we appreciate you HR.
Chas Fields:Thanks for all you do HR cheers bye