Take It To The Board with Donna DiMaggio Berger

A Board Members' Guide to Unexpected Issues - Your Questions Answered

• Donna DiMaggio Berger

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Navigating the complexities of community association governance is increasingly challenging due to evolving laws, heightened personal liability for board members, and onerous regulation including the personal information required of volunteer board members under the controversial Corporate Transparency Act. In this episode of Take It To The Board, host Donna DiMaggio-Berger and producer Claude Jennings Jr. address a host of listener questions and shed light on the most pressing issues board members face today.

Are more board members resigning than ever before?  Is a board member required to resign from the board once his or her unit is under contract? How can personnel issues be handled tactfully?  Can releases from members adequately protect the association from liability and why are some ESAs so noisy? Donna and Claude debunk common misconceptions about board service, discuss new educational requirements for volunteer board members, and offer strategies for effective governance and keeping your cool so board service doesn't get you down. Get ready for an in-depth guide to navigating the world of HOA and condominium governance.

Conversation Highlights Include:

  • Board member resignations
  • HOA events and legal waivers
  • Emotional support animals
  • Encouraging community members to serve on the board
  • Insurance costs and windstorm coverage
  • Estoppel Certificates
  • New education requirements for board members


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Speaker 1:

Hi everyone, I'm attorney Donna DiMaggio-Berger and this is Take it to the Board where we speak condo and HOA. It's never been easy serving on a condominium cooperative or HOA board, but the last few years have brought real challenges for volunteer boards and their management professionals. Semec arrived in early 2020 and brought with it unprecedented headaches and concerns about the steps needed and or welcomed to safeguard millions, especially vulnerable residents from illness and death. Then, in June 2021, came the horrible day that the Champlain Towers South Condominium partially collapsed, killing 98 people. Of that tragedy, the Florida legislature passed significant new laws over successive legislative sessions, requiring periodic engineering inspections and mandating reserves for structural components. An overarching challenge during the last few years continues to be the exorbitant increases in insurance premiums, which continue to rise despite the Florida legislature promising that the reforms they enacted will result in some relief. Lastly, the Corporate Transparency Act, or CTA, will require directors in many community associations to provide certain personal information to the government starting in 2025, unless the legal challenges to overturn that law are successful.

Speaker 1:

The last few months, I've seen more directors resigning or threatening to do so than I have throughout my entire legal career. I have also had more clients asking about their ability to self-insure, and several are in negotiations with developers to sell their properties. Overall, a sense of dread has taken hold in many communities, with the result being that fewer people are optimistic about the association lifestyle. My message to board members and managers is that all of the foregoing challenges can be navigated, but you will need help. This is the time when your choice of professional advisors will be crucial and your ability to work cohesively as a board will matter. But today, for a lighter subject, I am once again joined by my podcast producer, Claude Jennings, to dig into our mailbag of questions from our listeners. I'm going to give the standard disclaimer that today's content does not constitute specific legal advice for you or your community. So, with that being said, welcome, Claude.

Speaker 2:

Well, thank you, donna. Number two it's not legal advice, especially coming from me. You don't want to listen to anything that I have to say and think that that's legal advice. It's not.

Speaker 1:

That's true. Claude has not gone to law school. He has not passed the bar in any jurisdiction.

Speaker 2:

I do watch a ton of reruns of Law Order, especially SVU, but that doesn't qualify. Again, I'm not qualified to give any advice. Okay, so don't. Don't.

Speaker 1:

We appreciate that clarification, so should we dig into our listeners' questions.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, let's jump right in. So this is from Ray in Naples, florida. He says I'm currently serving as a board president and I have just signed a contract to sell my unit. Do I have to disclose that to the board and or do I have to resign from the board?

Speaker 1:

Oh, I have had this question a lot. So to Ray in Naples first you're going to have to confirm if your association's governing documents require directors to be owners. Some documents don't have that requirement, claude, and that's typically the case if the developer created the documents and at that point they wanted to have some of their employees, perhaps, or officers, serve on the board of directors. So in that case, even if you're selling, if your documents don't require directors to be members of the association or owners, you may be able to continue your service on the board even if you no longer live in the community. Now I'm not sure why anyone would want to do that, given all the challenges and limitations on time.

Speaker 1:

But you know, unless it's a paid position which most of them are not paid positions not sure why you'd do that.

Speaker 1:

But let's talk about the flip side. If your association's governing documents contain a provision requiring you to either announce your sale or tender a resignation from the board, then you should also consult with association counsel to confirm if that provision conflicts with any local state statutes regarding board member eligibility. You may also have a board member code of conduct in place Claude I've been doing a lot of those for clients and in that board member code of conduct there may be a requirement that you disclose when you have your unit under contract. And let me just say this it's always a good idea to communicate with your fellow board members if you're selling your unit, you know, because your focus may shift right. You've got one foot out the door. You may be very you know distracted at that moment and it may be the right thing to do is to give up your seat to somebody sooner rather than later, somebody else who has the who's in the community and has more time to focus on board operations.

Speaker 2:

Sure, and I imagine that's the same case. If, like, you own the unit but you're, you know, leasing it like you're renting it out to someone, a lot just has to do with what the what's in the bylaws, I'm assuming.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean again, we've got people listening in all different states. It depends on what your state statute says in terms of board member eligibility. There is always the perception that you know if you're not in the community, you're not living there. You may have a different point of view with regard to operations. I don't know in terms of your example, claude, about leasing it out. I don't know that that makes it less likely that, as a director, you're going to be less committed to certain things, but it's certainly. You may have a different point of view on certain things like rental restrictions.

Speaker 2:

Sure, sure, sure, all right. Well, this next one is from Brenda, and when I was reading all the emails, donna, this one stood out to me as one that I was like, really looking forward to you know your answer on this. So Brenda, from Margate, says we have a manager who has been with our timeshare resort for 30 years. We love her, but she's gained a huge amount of weight in the last two years. Now, this is in the email. I'm not saying this, brenda's saying this, okay, and it has impacted her ability to do her job. She has started tasking other employees with her job duties and we've been told that she's not very pleasant to them. We do not want to terminate her, but we also cannot go on like this. Help.

Speaker 1:

So this issue deals with this long-term, beloved, long-term employee's weight issue. But we could just as easily put something else in as an issue. It could be a substance abuse problem, it could be any other number of problems that is impacting this employee's ability to do their job At the end of the day. You know it's tough because this is a relationship 30 years with this individual, but at the end of the day, you still need an employee who can perform his or her job duties. So my first suggestion is consult with community counsel who has experience with employment law. If your general counsel does not, then you're going to need to speak to an attorney who has expertise with employment law. I am assuming, given that this employee has been working there for 30 years, that this employee is older than 40, unless she started working as a child.

Speaker 1:

So there are certain laws that come in in terms of age discrimination and other things you need to think about. You know, look a labor lawyer, claude, can walk this board through the different options, including progressive discipline for this employee in terms of the way she's treating other people in the office, in terms of making perhaps accommodations for her. But again, at the end of the day, if this employee, this manager, needs to walk the property, let's say that's one of his or her job description, that they need to walk around, they need to accompany vendors, they need to oversee certain maintenance and repairs, this employee may no longer be able to perform those job duties. I did want to say it's important for associations to create a culture of transparency. So in this case, I'm assuming that the manager they're talking about is the senior manager. Listen, she's been there for 30 years. Everybody else who's working there maybe the assistant manager, maybe the maintenance man they know or they assume that she's the person right, she's their boss, even though she reports to the board, they may be looking at her as their boss.

Speaker 1:

In terms of that, culture of transparency is, if they are being treated poorly, if there is a hostile work environment that this manager is creating, either knowingly or unknowingly. It's great that they spoke up and they're telling the board what's going on there, because that's what you want as an association. You want to create a culture where, if there is something going wrong in terms of harassment, either at the manager level harassing subordinates or a unit owner harassing the manager, or a board member harassing any employee you want to have a culture where people feel free that they can bring those problems to the board's attention.

Speaker 2:

Yeah for sure, there we go. I hope that helped Brenda. Yeah for sure, there we go. Hope that helped Brenda. So let's move to Arlington, texas, where Sherry checks in. And I was wondering how long would it take for us to get to Pickleball, which is growing so quickly. And, as a matter of fact, I think I was watching ESPN over the weekend based on when we're taping this the last week, I guess the first weekend of June and there was a pickleball tournament on ESPN too, and I'm like you know this thing is growing.

Speaker 1:

And so do you remember our wait, do you remember our pickleball?

Speaker 2:

I do, I do.

Speaker 1:

Episode with CA Masana where we were talking about the evolution of pickleball and it potentially, you know, with the, with the tournaments and all the endorsements, and is there pickleball in the Olympics? Is there going to be pickleball in Paris?

Speaker 2:

I don't know, I don't think in this upcoming Olympics, but I can't imagine it not being in the next one. And what would that be? I guess what Twenty, twenty eight or so, yeah, yeah, I can imagine it not being in there. So anyway, sherry at Arlington, texas says we're going to be offering a variety of events in our HOA, including a pickleball tournament and yoga classes in our park. Can we require all participants to sign a release?

Speaker 1:

Interesting question. So I know from the association's perspective that they want to minimize risk, right? They would love it to not have to deal with anybody any lawsuit stemming from pickleball and as we learned in that episode, claude, there are quite a few injuries that happen during pickleball, depending on who's playing and how aggressive they're being. I would say this For certain events yes, the association can require participants to execute releases which protect the association and the third party providing the services from liability. But even with those releases in hand, I would suggest that Sherry also speak to the association's insurance agent to confirm that there's insurance coverage in place for those activities. Sometimes associations want to have members sign releases to simply use common areas like the gym, the clubhouse, the pool, etc. It's important to understand that owners have rights pertinent to their membership to use the common recreational amenities, so you can't necessarily exclude somebody from the pool just because they say I'm not signing a release, so you need to speak to association counsel.

Speaker 1:

You can require releases for certain activities, but you also have to take into account the types of rules that you can adopt that will minimize the risk of liability associated with these common recreational amenities. And you also need to talk about signage. Let's talk about, at the pool or in the gym or in the clubhouse, certain kind of signage. So I guess bottom line is if there's a compelling reason and association council has agreed that there is a compelling reason to require a release for a particular activity, you can do it. But don't attempt to do it across the board.

Speaker 2:

Okay, well, yeah, and, and you know again, do whatever you gotta do, but for goodness sakes, don't stop the pickleball tournament, because you're going to have a ton of residents who are upset.

Speaker 1:

Or the yoga, or you know, or the yoga, I don't know that yoga has enthusiasts who are as enthusiastic as pickleball does.

Speaker 2:

Right, so this one's from Norman in Delray Beach, florida. He says our board approved an emotional support animal last year but the dog is left alone almost. So I guess Norman is talking about someone obviously got an emotional support dog but says that the dog is left alone most of the day, embarks excessively. If it's an emotional support animal, shouldn't it be with its owner when she leaves the unit?

Speaker 1:

not to play specialist here, and I would urge boards and managers not to attempt to gauge whether an ESA or a service animal is performing its job correctly. Even if you believe, norman, that you have expertise in this realm, reach out to association counsel and review the treating medical professionals letter together. So let me give an example. If the treating medical professionals letter together. So let me give an example. If the treating medical professional says that the dog is needed for the owner, the disabled owner, to sleep at night, then it might be entirely reasonable for the dog to be left alone during the day while the owner goes out to work or to socialize or whatever. However, if the treating medical professionals letter says that this dog is needed for the individual to go to work or to socialize and instead the person is going out and socializing and working without the animal, then I think there is some room for discussion with association council as to whether or not that was a legitimate uh assistance animal request.

Speaker 1:

Now in florida, claude, the legislature has criminalized fraudulent emotional support animal and service animal requests. Now in Florida, claude, the legislature has criminalized fraudulent emotional support animal and service animal requests and I think I have personally seen a reduction in the number of the more outlandish requests coming in, but we still see people making these requests online where the individual who's writing the letter on their behalf has never really treated the person you can fill. I even did this once. I don't know if I ever told you this. I went on, I filled out a bunch of stuff and I was. You know I didn't give all the correct answers, but I gave the answers that I thought they wanted and they said you're eligible for an emotional support at all.

Speaker 1:

So it's really really easy to go online and get this if you want to pay a fee. I think what Norman is also complaining about here though is the nuisance activity.

Speaker 1:

When you're talking about an accommodation that needs to be granted under federal or state law to accommodate a disabled owner's housing needs, it has to be reasonable. And if you have an animal whether it's an emotional support animal or a service animal that's barking excessively, that has displayed aggressive behavior towards other animals in the community or towards humans, or you've got an animal the owner's letting them off leash, running around in the community or in the building, not picking up after them, then that's a discussion with council as to whether or not the accommodation remains reasonable. And if it's not, the housing provider, which in this case is the community association, is not required to extend an unreasonable accommodation. So I have had instances where reasonable accommodations were granted and then over time it became unreasonable. Accommodations were granted and then over time it became unreasonable.

Speaker 1:

So one of the things I always urge boards to do is not rubber stamp all of these requests Because, again, if you have a pet restriction in your community and you're just rubber stamping requests that come in, you are potentially in violation of your fiduciary duty because you're not enforcing the documents. The other thing I urge boards to do is don't just deny these requests without speaking to an expert who can better evaluate it. And then, lastly, I would say, when it comes to the nuisance, we find that more with the emotional support animals, claude, than the service animals. The service animals really tend to be quieter. They tend to be very well-trained. As you know, emotional support animals don't need to have those special skill sets. So you know, when you see the dog at the airport that's jumping up and down, and that's probably not a service animal, that's probably emotional support.

Speaker 2:

Do you remember from 2018, the emotional support peacock that someone tried to bring onto a United Airlines flight?

Speaker 1:

I sure do yeah, so you're not dealing with that Norman. So there was a peacock, but did you know? Somebody had well, in one of our communities somebody had an emotional support crocodile.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, well, usually it's like that's, that's like an emotional support. Usually a crocodile is like an emotional distress animal.

Speaker 1:

Well, you know, potato, potato right, yeah, there you go.

Speaker 2:

All right, let's go to Trina in Margate as well. She says what happened if we cannot get anyone willing to serve on our board. Three of our five board members have already resigned and the two of us left want off as well. Our annual meeting and election is months away. This sounds like an interesting situation here, like I'm not sure. If the issue is we can't find anyone to serve, more so than why does everybody want out? But anyway, donna, you go right ahead.

Speaker 1:

Well, you know, I said in the introduction, claude, that I you know, I have never seen so many directors resigning than I have in the last few months, so this is a trend Again. I think it's all of the pressures I discussed in the introduction to this episode. You've got people who are very unhappy with regard to the budget increases, whether it's due to the insurance, If you're in certain communities it's due to the engineering inspections, the ongoing maintenance and repair projects that are needed, the reserve funding. It's not fun. It was never fun to serve on the board. By the way, I served on my board. I don't know if I told you that I was on my HLA board for two years and it's a lot of work. If you do it right, it's a lot of work. You're not just an empty chair. You're there to actually do some work, whether you have professional management or not. In my community it was self-managed, so all of the directors had homework and we were expected to show up at every meeting and have reports, and I think that's, you know, that's what highly functioning boards need to do.

Speaker 1:

But let's get back to Trina. So she said three of the five board members have already resigned and she's in Margate, florida, which means she only has two members on her board. Now in Florida you need a minimum of three directors to operate a corporation. So in Trina's case those two people left need to immediately get together and they need to appoint a third person as a replacement. So they are operating safely under Florida law. They're operating that corporation. If no one really wants to serve Claude, then one option is any owner can petition the court for an appointment of a paid receiver to operate and administer the community. But people need to bear in mind there are a few downsides to turning over the community to a paid receiver. First, there are significant costs associated with it. Receivers don't just serve in that capacity pro bono, they're getting paid.

Speaker 1:

There are significant costs Since the receiver's not really living in your community, they're not really familiar with your community. A lot of owners can feel, when there is a receiver appointed, that the receiver's decision making is very detached because they don't live there and they're sitting somewhere else. So it can feel like you have somebody from on high who is making decisions about your community, and that's not a great feeling. The other thing I would say is, once the court appoints a receiver, it's not that easy to get the receiver out. You have to go back to court. There needs to be a subsequent order from the court discharging the receiver from the community. So all of this takes time and money. So I would urge Trina to have her board, urge their members to step up and serve their time on the board. It's the best option. I would actually be curious to know, like you said, why is there such reluctance to serve on the board in her community?

Speaker 1:

It sounds like a couple different things could be going on. They could be subject to some huge budgetary increases and the board members don't want to be unpopular, so better just let me get off the board. They could be involved in some lengthy and complicated litigation and maybe that's the reason for it, but whatever it is, the problems aren't going to go away and getting off the board is not necessarily the answer. These communities need people on these boards and people willing to put in the time.

Speaker 1:

I used to have a blog before I had this podcast and I once did a post saying that we should treat service on association boards like jury service, where you move in, everybody gets a number and your number comes up, you're automatically on the board and I got a lot of hate mail for that suggestion. But you know what? There would be exemptions, there would always be exemptions. But in a way, I really feel like it's important for people to serve on the board because it's a completely different perspective when you do. I know I got a different perspective when I served on my HOA board.

Speaker 2:

Well, trina, send this episode to everybody in your community and have them listen to the importance of this, especially like if you were to pay a group to come in, how hard it would be to get them out. And so I think that that could be kind of an incentive for someone to serve especially short term until you can find someone who knows that maybe that person who serves short term will want to stay longer until you find more people.

Speaker 1:

Well, there's one thing I want to add to that too I'm again. I'd be really curious to know why people are flying off the board on her community. But sometimes it's also because they don't have safety nets in place, so they may not have an association attorney that they feel comfortable in they're working with or a management professional that knows what he or she is doing.

Speaker 1:

So, I feel you know, especially recently with the complicated legislation we're seeing in Florida that boards, it's an easier job if you're surrounding yourself with the right professional advisors to help you. So you don't have to be your own accountant, you don't have to be your own lawyer, you don't have to be your own engineer.

Speaker 2:

Right, there you go. All right, trina. I hope that helped. Brett in Sunny Isle, florida, says we are a small condominium of 26 units and all of us agree that insurance costs in Florida are just too high. We all voted to not renew our windstorm coverage, but our manager says that is not legal. Can we do this?

Speaker 1:

Oh boy, brett. No, the short answer is no. You cannot do that unless your 26 units are freestanding villas. He didn't indicate that. But if they're not freestanding villas, the answer is no. So the Florida Condominium Act requires boards to use their best efforts to obtain insurance coverage, and not being willing to pay very high prices is not the same thing as being unable to procure coverage.

Speaker 1:

So I've been hearing from a lot of clients over the last few years, as insurance costs continue to skyrocket, that everyone in the community has agreed that self-insurance is what they want to do, right? Here's the problem. Self-insurance does not mean going bare. Self-insurance actually means that if the entire building was destroyed, or even a significant portion of it, that the association would have funds on hand to rebuild, pursuant to current code. Now what I have found is that most people who want to self-insure do so because they don't even have the money for the insurance premium, Claude, let alone the money sitting in the bank where they could actually rebuild. So I think there's some confusion here, because, again, self-insurance does not mean going bare. The answer you get is well, everybody has agreed, right. What did he say, brett? That they're 26 units.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, 26 units.

Speaker 1:

Okay. So that's a small community. Even if you have all of the owners in a very small community at a meeting saying we agree, let's all do this. Here's the thing. Some of those people probably have mortgages, so the second that there's no longer insurance on the building that can throw some of them will likely throw some of them into default under their mortgages. The other issue is that you're going to have new people coming in. You know it's not a static population of people living in the building, so as new people come in, it's going to impact their ability to purchase and those people may not agree with the prior decision. So a better course of action would be for the owners in Brett's building to contact their legislators and put pressure on them to fix the insurance crisis.

Speaker 2:

OK, there we go. All right. So, Donna, you can take a sip of some coffee or water if you need to, because Carlos in Middle Village, New York, has a decently long email. Okay, so I'm going to read this breathe a little bit.

Speaker 2:

He says hi, donna, I'm a regular listener of your podcast and I appreciate the information provided. I am curious to know if a certain topic has been covered in a prior podcast. Does a prospective buyer have an ability to inquire about the legal or financial condition of the association not an individual unit buyer to inquire or request documents or information from the association, such as copies of past board minutes, financial statements, cpa audit reports and budgets? How can the lawyer representing the buyer advise or assist in requesting this information? Also and correct me, donna, if I mispronounce this what's an estoppel or estoppel?

Speaker 1:

Estoppel yep.

Speaker 2:

Estoppel certificate. Can that be used to obtain the information above from management? Carlos seems like he's about to make some big decisions here and he needs to know whether he's going to make the right one and I love this question because remember in past episodes we had Marissa DeLenjon she was the realtor last year talking about what prospective buyers look for.

Speaker 1:

So we are, claude, seeing a shift in what prospective buyers are looking for when they are particularly in condominiums and cooperatives, when they're looking at units. In the past I think far too many potential purchasers were looking just at the unit, the white box. What does this unit look like? What does my view look like? What are the amenities in the building? What they weren't looking at was what's the budget? Does this building have reserves? Does it have an emergency generator in the event of a hurricane? By the way, how litigious has this association been? Are they currently being sued? Are they currently suing anyone? What's the delinquency rate here? What percentage of the units are currently rented out After you purchase your long-term experience of living in that community? That I think in the past far too few potential purchasers actually delved into and, as a result, some of those purchasers had the regrets right. So the reason caveat emptor, buyer, beware delve a little bit, so you know I will say this to Carlos. Delve a little bit, so you know, I will say this to Carlos. In Florida, post-champlain Towers, new purchasers are entitled to obtain a copy of the most recent engineering report on the building and a copy of the Structural Integrity Reserve Study, or CERS. That's really important, as those documents will tell new purchasers if there's any life safety issues with the building and or potential upcoming special assessments related to repair and maintenance projects. In terms of other things that a potential purchaser might want to see, like the current operating budget, financial statements, minutes of board meetings. By the way, the minutes of board meetings could be very interesting, because if it's like a court transcript and then he said this and she said that you could get a pretty good idea of what those board meetings are like. All of that can be obtained from the unit owner who's selling, so he or she simply needs to make a document inspection request from the association if they don't already have those items, and then they can provide them to the purchaser. Look, some communities also a lot of communities have websites, so you can go on the association website. The sections that are open to the public can tell you quite a bit about the events, the amenities. Of course, there's going to be a password protected section for owners, only that a potential purchaser or potential renters not going to be able to see. But I think doing your due diligence is more important now more than ever.

Speaker 1:

Ask questions Even when you're in the community. You get in the elevator and you go straight up to your unit and again, if you're just looking at your view, if you can talk to a few people while you're there I was just in a retirement community. My parents live in Weston. We wanted them to see what a retirement community might look like. They're in a big single family home. We think they need a little more help. We asked a lot of people, you know, when we were in the community what's it like here? What do you? You know? What do you like here? You know what are the challenges. It was eyeopening. I thought it was fantastic. My parents two thumbs down. They don't need any help, they're staying where they're staying. But my advice would be ask a few questions. In terms of his question about the estoppel certificate, so that's a document that's provided when a purchaser or a lender requests it and it's basically used to confirm what amounts are due and owing to the association on the unit and whether there are any open violations.

Speaker 2:

Okay. Well, there you go. Well, you just spoke about Weston. Let's go to Michael, who's in Weston. He has an email for you, donna. It says you know I'm thinking about running for my HOA board next year, but I've heard that there are a lot of changes taking effect on July 1st which might expose me to personal liability, and the educational requirements sound like overkill. Should I rethink my decision?

Speaker 1:

So Michael does not want to go back to school, although the Florida legislature would like him to do so if he's serving on the HOA board. Yes, there are a lot of changes that are going to take effect July 1st for condominium cooperative and HOA communities. That being said, I would still urge Michael to serve on his board. In condominiums, new and current board members need to take four hours of specific board member education. For HOAs, only new board members have to take the four hours of education, and directors in very large communities 2,500 parcels or more have to take eight hours of state-approved education. Now, look but find some education. That's fun. I'm going to point you to my partner, howard Pearl's episode on board member boot camp, which is, I think, five hours, and we put you through your paces and it's a lot of fun. We have a drill sergeant really giving you the boot camp experience.

Speaker 1:

So, try to find some fun education. I would say listen, the most important way to avoid potential liability is to implement a more formalized style of governance in your community. I said it at the outset If there are gaps in policies and protocols, if you're doing things in a haphazard way, if you don't know who's doing what in terms of, let's say, document inspections, elections, screenings of purchasers and renters, fining and suspensions, if you don't know whether you're doing it, whether that's your job as the vice president or the president, or is it the manager's job or is it the board's job as a whole? Is it a committee's function? Who's doing what?

Speaker 1:

You need to sit down and formalize these roles and these processes, because where I do think that boards are going to potentially especially in Florida have problems after July 1st is when they continue to just sort of make assumptions and hope for the best. So I think you need to do some long-term and short-term strategic planning with your management team and with council. I think you need to talk about the new laws. I think you need to certainly take advantage of all the educational offerings out there. Now remember I said for condominium directors even existing ones have to take this new education but even for my HOA directors. I would urge them to do it because there is potential for liability and I think board members need to understand what it means to have a fiduciary obligation to their members and be willing to fulfill that obligation, regardless of the type of pressure that some of their members are putting on them. You know they are pushing. There is a certain amount of push and pull.

Speaker 1:

I mentioned during the. We saw it during the pandemic, as boards were struggling to figure out. You know, what do we keep open? What do we need to close? Do we have insurance coverage if somebody gets sick? It's the same pressures that we're seeing now with milestone inspections and the reserve funding. So if you're going to get on the board, please understand it's not a popularity contest. You will most likely not be popular with everyone. If you're popular with everyone, that's another red flag. So understand what it means. Have a basic understanding of the contracts that bind the association. Have a basic understanding of your governing documents. You should have a basic understanding of your insurance policies and the legal framework within which you must operate. You can't be an empty seat on the board. Okay, you don't have to be a master at everything, but you do need to understand who's doing what and have a basic understanding of what's going on.

Speaker 2:

There you go. So, donna, for this episode we have one more email, but I want to say this before I get to that email, that, um, I think I speak for a lot of the listeners you know, continue doing episodes like this. You know you have a lot of wonderful guests who share a lot of wonderful information, but I think you, sharing your expertise and you know, you know just your perspective, and I think it's very viable to, uh, viable to the listeners and so never stop. Well, we'll see if the numbers support that, those assertions, numbers, numbers, we don't worry about that, but I think, I think that it's really good.

Speaker 2:

Oh, and you know, one other update. So, remember, the last time we did this, I had mentioned that we got a letter in the mail from our HOA saying that there was, you know, an election they look for new members to the board and I was contemplating whether I should do it or not, just letting you know I didn't. I just got super busy and I didn't do it. But I will also say this, donna, I don't complain about anything. I wake up in the morning, I go to work, I come home, my family do it, I don't complain about anything.

Speaker 1:

So Well, that's the key right there. If you're going to complain, you have to get involved.

Speaker 2:

You got to be if you.

Speaker 1:

if you're taking hands off approach and you're still happy, that's OK, you get a pass, as long as you're not complaining.

Speaker 2:

There you go, so I don't complain, although if you don't do any more of these episodes, I will complain about that, about this podcast. You'll get hate mail from Claude about we need more mailbags. Ok, let's see. So this final one says and there's no one on this, this is, I know, someone who would make a great guest on the podcast. How can I get them on your show?

Speaker 1:

OK, so no name. This is anonymous, correct? So I would say for anonymous, if anyone out there knows of somebody that they think would make a great guest on the podcast, please just send me an email. My email is D Berger at Becker Lawyers dot com, and you know we'll let me an email. My email is dberger at beckerlawyerscom, and you know we'll let you know if your gut instinct is correct.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, in the subject line just put possible podcast guests or podcast inquiry and, yeah, I'll get back to you, absolutely. I mean, we're coming up. We're going to be closing in on our 100th episode pretty soon.

Speaker 1:

That's a big deal. Any plans for what you want to do for the 100th episode, or I don't know? I have, I have some feelings. I have some feelings. We'll see what happens with that. But, claude, I want to thank you again. You're just a great producer for this show and I really appreciate you.

Speaker 2:

Well, I appreciate you too, Donna, as well, and you know you're a wonderful mix of just you know knowledge, intelligence, charisma. No, no, honestly no, alexa. I produce a lot of podcasts, I work with a lot of hosts and, for someone who's not necessarily a media professional, you're wonderful to work with. You know what you're doing and you're good at it. You're really good. You make it easy to produce and edit and package the show.

Speaker 1:

Well, I am blushing now, but our listeners can't see that. Thank, I am blushing now, but our listeners can't see that. Thank you, Claude, you got it. Thank you for joining us today. Don't forget to follow and rate us on your favorite podcast platform or visit takeittotheboardcom for more ways to connect.