Digital Nomad Stories

Crossing Borders and Cultures: an Expat's Entrepreneurial Journey

• Anne Claessen • Season 2 • Episode 158

Share episode

Moving countries isn't a mere geographical shift, it's an entire cultural plunge. Laurent Notin, the Bottleneck Coach and host of the Destiny for Nomads podcast, shares his intriguing journey of living and working abroad. He takes us through his experiences of shifting countries and cultures, from the charm of Cambodia to the beauty of Helsinki, Finland, and all the challenges that came along. 

Connect with Laurent:


Connect with Anne:



Anne Claessen:

Hey Nomads, welcome to Digital Nomad Stories, the podcast. My name is Anne-Klaassen and, together with my co-host, kendra Hasse, we interview digital nomads. Why? Because we want to share stories of how they did it. We talk about remote work, online business, location and dependency, freelancing, travel and, of course, the digital nomad lifestyle. If you want to know more about us and access all previous episodes, visit digitalnomadstories. co. Alright, let's go into today's episode. Hey, hey Nomads. Welcome to a brand new episode of Digital Nomad Stories. Today I'm here with Laurent Notin. He is The Bottleneck Coach and also the host of Destiny for Nomads, a podcast for digital nomads. So I think, if you like this podcast, you should definitely check that one out. We'll talk more about that, probably also towards the end. Laurent, welcome to the show. I'm so excited to have you here and dive into your story.

Laurent Notin:

Hey, hello Anne, thank you. Thank you very much for having me.

Anne Claessen:

Yeah, I'm really excited to learn more, because you've been an expat for almost 24 years. We were just talking about that. It's almost your expat anniversary and you've seen a lot of different countries in those 24 years and I'm sure you've had a lot of different experiences. So I'm really excited to learn more. But before we go into the whole expat thing, would you like to tell us a little bit more about what you do exactly? You're the bottleneck coach. What does that mean? What do you do? What do you do every day?

Laurent Notin:

Yeah. So I help funders to get entrepreneurs to get unstuck when they become the bottleneck in their businesses. So you're not an entrepreneur, you are an entrepreneur yourself. It's really, really easy to get stuck into your operations, for example, because you have so many things to do that you forgot to take a step back and have an holistic approach of the company, of the business, think strategy. Well, when you do that, you become the bottleneck in your business. Because the thing is, there's no difference between you and your business, because you are the entrepreneur, the funder, especially when the business is small, but it's true across, even when the business scales, you are the heart of the business. You're the engine. Everything relies on you. And when it's like a car, when the engine grips, well, the car is stuck. You're the same. If you're great as the entrepreneur, well, your business is stuck, and from there you can't move forward. So that's what I do, is that I come in when entrepreneurs are stuck and I help them get us unstuck through coaching.

Anne Claessen:

Very important and I definitely hear you. It's really interesting. I've been going through this in the past four years of entrepreneurship. I have definitely been the bottleneck in my business and it's really interesting, Although looking at your website I'm like, yeah, I wish I met Laura a few years ago. That would have saved me so much stress, honestly.

Laurent Notin:

But you know what? 100% of entrepreneurs will become eventually the other bottleneck in their businesses in several times. So don't worry, you will need my services later.

Anne Claessen:

Yes, exactly. Good that I met you now. So, Laurent, can you also tell me a little bit about what lies looks like? Like where do you live? What is your daily or weekly routine? Do you work nine to five or anything else Like? Can you share a little bit more about that?

Laurent Notin:

Sure, I'd be pleased to do so. So I've been living in Finland now Helsinki, finland since July 2019. This is the third I think my third apartment in four years. But now we live. I live. From my window next to me I have view on the forest, which is really nice. That's what I love about being in Finland. It's so very, very great.

Laurent Notin:

And so I work from home and I do have kind of a routine, a morning routine. I would wake up around like 5.45, 6.00 am. I would drink my first coffee, and usually I would put on a documentary on TV, on YouTube I love watching documentaries at that time. Then I would have my second coffee Already. Yeah, already I've been in Finland it's a big country a drinking coffee With my breakfast.

Laurent Notin:

I would start working around 7.30. And then I have one hour of work from 7.30 to 8.30, which I find very productive, because if I don't do anything with work, I feel anxious about it. This is something I've been really fighting against, so I found this is the best. The most efficient way for me is to get started early and then I would wake up that hour and then I take my dog out for 30, 40 minutes and usually I come back, I would work again until lunchtime, take a break and then again I would work again until I may be like 4.30 pm, and then I would go to the gym. I'm a big crossfit addict, so I would hit the crossfit box five days a week. Awesome, that's my day.

Anne Claessen:

Cool. Well, I just under-crossfit. I've been to two classes so far. I have my cell phone scheduled for tomorrow morning Nice.

Laurent Notin:

Yes, is that the boot camp, what they? Call the boot camp. Is that what they call, the boot camp, where you go, and this is the teaching class, what they teach you?

Anne Claessen:

The basic movement, the financial movement, no, I actually did a few of those classes before. So, this is my sort of like real official here in Valencia and I also did like two, but like single classes. I did my very first CrossFit class on Bali and nearly died Like I don't know it was so tough I was like I am not prepared for this. I need to literally train to be able to do CrossFit.

Laurent Notin:

So that's what I started doing, you know, but I did Laura.

Anne Claessen:

I did, Laura. I mean I did half two. It was bad. So I did a lot of strength training and stuff and now a little bit more ready Still die every lesson but every class that I take. But it's a little bit more fun, especially afterwards, you know. But I just also wanted to highlight what you said that first hour, that first work hour, that you have to really do deep work To really get stuff done immediately in the morning, and then that worked so well for you.

Laurent Notin:

Yeah.

Anne Claessen:

How did you find that out Like did you try a lot of different work styles and work routines, and how did you come across this as like the ideal setup for you?

Laurent Notin:

Yeah, that set up has changed actually. So when I was working for others I had a completely different schedule. When I started working for myself, I was in Cambodia and but I was living like right next to the CrossFit box, so I would first go to the CrossFit box. It was because it was easy and because then I find that fun that it was easier for me to go first thing in the morning, hit the gym and it's all of my way, and this is also what I used to be doing when I first came to Finland. Right, but I was never very satisfied with that because I had to use a public transport.

Laurent Notin:

Over here it was a bit complicated sometimes. Not that there's a lot of public transport, it's really easy to commute in Helsinki, but it's quite long, especially when you go like from the north to the east, for instance. You have to change like a couple of times, but I kept doing. I was not really satisfied. And then I regularly have meetings with other entrepreneurs, so call them like mastermind groups, but this is like private groups. We help, we have each other, we discuss, you know, and that came. That idea came out from one of the one of those conversations, because the person I was talking to was telling me that this is what he was doing, and so I was like okay, I'm going to try it and pan. It works very well it makes me really happy yeah.

Laurent Notin:

So learning from other people like hearing different stories of what worked for them.

Anne Claessen:

That really worked for you. Awesome. So you already coached on Cambodia as a place where you live next to the Crosshead Vogue. Can you tell us more about it, like I want to know all the places where you lived in the last 24 years and maybe just start at the beginning. It's 1999. Yes, what happened that you thought let's leave France and go live somewhere else, like, why didn't you decide to leave? Because I followed my partner at that time.

Laurent Notin:

So she used to be. Well, she's still a teacher. She teaches French to foreigners and back in the late the end of the 90s she was doing a master in that topic and we were in Paris. I was doing my military service and she was doing an internship and one day she found an announcement from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs that was providing paid internship for a duration of nine months. I think exactly in the last few months. I think exactly in what she was doing and the recruitment was made on. You had to fill in like a registration file, you know, send some documents, your CV and whatever, just apply. It was all done online, like that, or maybe at that time it was not online, you had to send it by the post office.

Anne Claessen:

It was 1999.

Laurent Notin:

Yes, and she was like all right, that's really interesting, because this is exactly what I'm doing. And she looked at all the countries and she saw Laos and she was like where is that? Nobody knows where it is. So if I want to increase the chance of being recruited, I'm going to put Laos as my first choice, that's our choice.

Laurent Notin:

She had to select like three countries.

Laurent Notin:

So she put Laos in Southeast Asia she's on the way and the other two countries were Latin America.

Laurent Notin:

And bam, she got it and we had like, actually we had like one weekend to make our decision because it took like quite a while before the Ministry of Foreign Affairs selected the candidates and by then we had moved for out of Paris and so the mailing kept on following us, except that at one point he went back to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs because they could not find us anymore because the post office didn't know where we were living. We were actually living at her parents at that time and I remember we were at her parents and one night I don't remember if it was a Thursday evening or Friday evening we received a phone call from a person from Ministry of Foreign Affairs saying like talking to my ex-partner and saying like this is really, really weird. This is why I'm calling. It's because, you know, usually people do accept openly, are selected, and we have no news from you. So I thought, like you know, I had to call you because something was wrong. So thanks to that person who was like doing a bit zealous.

Anne Claessen:

Yeah.

Laurent Notin:

We went to Laos and we only had the weekend because we had to give an answer, like on Monday or Tuesday. I immediately said yes. I said yes, let's go. I think now I said yes with you know, if I look at it, reflect on it because I was kind of fleeing something. I was not really happy in France, but I don't want to go into those details and so we headed up in Laos on the 3rd of October 1999, initially for nine months. We stayed seven years. No, no, no, no. And then from there we moved to Cambodia where we spent well, we spent it total like 13 years. I did one year in Vietnam, came back to by myself, but we were still together, but they didn't move because the company I was working in Vietnam was in really bad conditions. So later, here in Vietnam, by myself, came back to Cambodia, then we got separated and then I met my future wife and she's from Finland and we both wanted to go back to Europe and we saw all right, let's go to Finland.

Laurent Notin:

Yeah that's it, and here you are yeah exactly, and the item yes, yes.

Anne Claessen:

So how does it go when you follow a partner, especially to a completely different country like Laos, where you don't speak the language right, and you follow someone else, like your partner went for a job, but you didn't have a job lined up right, like, how was that? Did you try to find a local job there Because you could also not wear a go line? I mean, it's 1999, so you cannot be a digital nomad like today, like what we're doing, you know.

Laurent Notin:

So, like how was that.

Laurent Notin:

It was not too difficult, actually. I just I contacted the French embassy and I asked them for the list of the French companies in Laos, and there were some. Laos is a very small country. It's 5.5 million people. It's very landlocked. At that time it was not as developed as it is today, and they sent me the list and I sent a CV by mail by the crew plus office to all of them before leaving.

Laurent Notin:

And we arrived there, I spent one week just to you know, adopt, find a house, et cetera, but we were independent very, very quickly. Then I started contacting the companies I applied to. The first company I called was this small market research agency. They said, yes, come for an interview. We had an interview and they said, all right, we can start working, except that you're going to be paid like peanuts. They offered me a job for $2,250, which is kind of like 200 euros, but honestly I didn't really care, because my partner was paid like a nice amount of money and we had a house, we had a maid, we had a motorbike, we had two motorbikes. We were going out all night, every night, because it was Laos, was so cheap. We didn't need a lot to live. So I just said yes because I wanted to do it for the experience.

Anne Claessen:

Yeah, that is so cool, and yeah, like you said you add everything you need, right, Like also what can you buy of that money in Laos? Well, probably enough. So then you accept that Exactly. It's a great story when you hear it now, for sure. And then, when you were in Cambodia, you started working online. Is that what you said? No, no, no, no.

Laurent Notin:

So first, when I moved to Cambodia, I was offered a job to Cambodia in the market Research industry. So it was quite a move, the kind of job where you know they're telling you it's actually. It was in December 20, what? 20, 2005, I think I received. I run Christmas, so it was a merry Christmas to me. I received an email from a guy I knew who was running a market research agency in Cambodia who said yeah, I'm looking for someone. I was thinking about you. Here's a contract with all the benefits. Do you want the job? Okay, I was like okay, I thought that would be sure, because at that time I was a bit bored of flowers, I was kind of turning into circles. It was a small country. My partner had a great job, so I first went to Cambodia, worked for them, and for the first six months I was rolling back and forth between Cambodia and Laos because she had to finish a contract and also she was pregnant of her second son. And then she joined me with the son in July, I think, of that year and I moved around February 2006. And so I worked for this company for eight years, nine years.

Laurent Notin:

Then after that I went to Vietnam, as I mentioned. After that experience Vietnam that was. It did not end well. I resigned and I went working for another company in an advertising agency, and I worked for them for four years, but at that time I was already kind of. I felt like something was missing. I needed it. I was not satisfied anymore working for other people. I've always been surrounded by entrepreneurs. My best friends are entrepreneurs. I always work for entrepreneurs. When I started working for this advertising agency, they gave me equity in the company because they couldn't pay the salary I was asking for, and I started talking with my business partner about doing something. And one day we are back in 2017.

Laurent Notin:

In summer of 2017, I am at my parents and I'm like I wake up in the morning and I know, I know what I'm going to do and I'm going to become a coach and immediately I send an email because email where back in 2014, we had email I send an email to my business partner. I said, look, I'm going to resign in October because I'm going to start my own thing. And he said, yeah, sure, I understand, I knew it was coming. Actually, they became one of my first clients and this is how I started. So in 2017, this is how I started my journey as an entrepreneur, as a coach. First I started working with clients in Cambodia and then I had the first clients outside, but I'm really turning into like a complete remote business.

Anne Claessen:

When I moved to Finland in 2019 because of COVID, Okay, yeah, that makes a lot of sense and also you can then take the business with you when you move right. I mean, when you have your clients in Cambodia, they're used to meeting up in person and you kind of have a stay.

Laurent Notin:

So that makes a lot of sense that when you move you want to take your clients Exactly. So I moved to Finland. I still have clients from Asia. They were fine. They were fine to do all the coaching sessions online, but then COVID hit. I lost the clients and also I had to reinvent myself a little bit. This is where I started my other podcast called Quacking the Entrepreneur interviews Quacking the Entrepreneur Botanical Egg, and this is where I started being like a real remote worker.

Anne Claessen:

Yeah.

Laurent Notin:

Really pushing myself, you know, out there on social media, et cetera, et cetera.

Anne Claessen:

So would you say that these later moves, like especially moving to Finland, become easier than the first initial moves that you made because of I don't know primary experience, but also the internet and online business, and you know all of that. Would you say it's easier? Or would you say that the challenges have changed, but not necessarily less challenges?

Laurent Notin:

I would say the excitement is always there, Like it's a new adventure. You know, I was in Cambodia. I was quite, you know, I was quite well off in Cambodia. But moving to Finland after so many years in Asia, moving into Europe, where I had no network, had nothing, was quite an adventure, but I was really excited. I was really excited about it and so it has always been easy for me to make those decisions. I don't mind if tomorrow you tell me well, okay, you're going to leave, I don't know, you're going to leave in Spain. And be like why not?

Laurent Notin:

I would consider the opportunity and today would be even easier because I have a remote business so I can take it with me. But when I moved from Laos to Cambodia no problem at all because I was moving from you know, it was a big promotion for me. Moving from Cambodia back to Europe, in Finland I actually underestimated the impact it would have on me. Like I said, it's not like in Asia. So in Asia, for instance, the network a lot, people network a lot, and in Asia obviously I don't look Asian. So when you go into a networking event, for instance, you know already have something in common with non-Indian people, so it's easier to go and talk to people.

Laurent Notin:

But you come to a country like Finland, they all look like me More or less, and suddenly that advantage, called on God, has disappeared and I completely underestimated the impact of that, also did not really prepare for the cultural shock, because Finland is really different even from France, and so I think I really underestimated the time it would take me to create my place and have built a network. Even though my business is remote, today I still want to have a base which is Finland. So I need to build a network here in Finland, just in case, also because I want to be involved, you know, in a business association and stuff like that, and I also need. I also have some clients now in Finland, so it's not difficult. It's just, I like preparation. I should have prepared a lot better and I did not.

Anne Claessen:

So how can other people prepare, like, what are some steps that you wish you would have taken?

Laurent Notin:

now, looking back, I knew you were going to ask that question.

Anne Claessen:

Sorry, it's so mean, it's so mean.

Laurent Notin:

I think I should have talked to more people about who know Finland. You know what it means to move Finland, not in terms of life, because life it was quite easy, like personal stuff. It's really a lot easier to live in Finland than to live in Asia. For instance, here are social security. I even have like unemployment allowances which I didn't get in Asia. But business wise, I should have made a lot more research, talked to more people what it takes, what it takes to you know, as a foreigner, to work in, even in French, to work in Finland. What do I need to prepare myself for? How to finish? People like to do business. It's easy to get clients. I should have contacted more companies before even you know cold calling them or cold emailing them because they are foreigners here doing business. Also, I should have anticipated a bit more what I would need to set up properly in Finland.

Anne Claessen:

Right so that networking and research phase. That would have been really helpful.

Laurent Notin:

Yeah, trial.

Anne Claessen:

Yeah.

Laurent Notin:

To moving. I was a bit complacent because I was like I've already done it. Yeah, I've been there.

Laurent Notin:

Been there, done that. It's not Asia. That's the thing is like. If you move from Europe to Asia, you're going to be, you're in for a cultural thought, I'm telling you. You're going to have to reinvent yourself and learn, and learn how to do things you know and how to do business over there. But in my case I was, because I really never worked in France, apart from some internships. I had to reinvent myself the other way around, like I moved from Asia to Europe and I knew nothing about the business codes in Europe.

Anne Claessen:

Yeah, exactly, it was quite a unique point of view basically, but I mean not unique that no one else has it, but he would have to seek those people out. Are there any other lessons that you learned in moving countries, especially moving continents drastically twice, basically going from Europe to Asia and then going back to Europe again, like 20 years later I mean odd year later Like anything that you can share? That would also be helpful for other people who are living as either ex-pad or as little romance.

Laurent Notin:

The lessons I learned. It's more about, like how it has transformed me. If you can travel, do it. Absolutely, absolutely do it, because it will open up your mind. It will provide you with a bigger perspective than you thought you had. Like, for instance, traveling in countries like Laos, Cambodia, but in Southeast Asia that are very poor. I went to places where they have not a lot.

Laurent Notin:

I would say, gives you a lot of perspective on what you had back home and suddenly you don't see the problem. You see the problem differently. Give you an example in France, we know we love striking or nothing. You know we love, but we forget about everything that we have. We take everything for granted. You know, there is public transportation, there is social security, there is unemployment, there is a lot of support from the government.

Laurent Notin:

For instance, in Laos, in Cambodia, in most of the countries in Southeast Asia they don't have all of that, so they have to survive. You know, if you lose your job, you don't get unemployment benefits. Then you go back to your family and say, hey, can you help me? And so this is really what I have learned. It's that ability to take a step back and look at problems really differently. And a lot of times, when people see problems, I'm like really that's a problem for you, because let me tell you, I've seen a lot worse and this isn't really not a problem. So and that's the other thing that it builds it builds patience. And I had to work on that because I'm French, I'm from the Southeast of France, we're not very well known for being patient. I have a low D character, and so I really had to work on that. And the other thing I would say is remember that it's not your country. Your country is where you're from. Everywhere else, even though you live there, they accept you. Yeah, you're a guest.

Laurent Notin:

You're a resident of that country, You're a guest you're a resident of that country, so respect them.

Laurent Notin:

I left Southeast Asia because I was tired, I was bored and I started becoming racist in a country that is not mine and I've seen so many. You know when I was thinking about it, and I was thinking about all these white men, expatriates, who've been living in Asia. We all have to cliché in mind. Those clichés are true and I didn't, and they always complain about you know how the people are lazy, all this and all of that, and I did not want to end up like those people and this is where I was feeling that I was going to. So I had to do something. I had to live. I love Asia. I love Asia. I enjoyed the time I spent there, but it was time for me to make a change. So maybe that's the other thing, and it's like when you feel like you know it's enough, just go somewhere else. It's easy, You've done it already, so you can do it. You can do it again Exactly, Prepare better, Just make sure you're prepared, and then you can definitely leave again, just make sure you're prepared.

Laurent Notin:

Yeah, I think that's actually a great point.

Anne Claessen:

Leave on a high note, like don't let it go so far that you become someone you don't want to be because you're not happy in the country anymore, You're not happy in that place anymore. And I think also, if that's your home country, if you're now living in your home country and you're not happy there and that makes you, you know, not feel excited. Or, and also not, you know, like you don't have to be excited every day, Like when you're traveling or when you're next back. You're not excited every day to be here where you are. But in general, you know, if it's like you said, if it's turning you into someone you don't want to meet them. Leave, change scenery, meet new people, have new experiences. I think that is such a great point.

Laurent Notin:

Yeah, and you know, this is the reason why I don't go back to France, because I wouldn't be happy in France. I know France is. Every time people ask me why, why not France? France is full of French people, but that's not good for France, that's true. If we don't have we don't have perspective like I have. But when I say that to an expat who is like from another country, they will say the same about their own country. You know, I met, I met English people saying exactly the same. I'm sure Dutch people will say, will say the same about Holland. It's that because we have developed that ability like, like this perspective I was talking about, and so we don't want to be surrounded by people, narrow minded people, anymore.

Anne Claessen:

You don't want to take a step back?

Laurent Notin:

Been there, done that. You want to move forward. I think, that makes a lot of sense, absolutely.

Anne Claessen:

Laurel, thank you so much for sharing your story and I think it was so interesting to hear also how you moved in 1999 where you couldn't send an email, so you know like the government was basically chasing you with this letter of acceptance, but it's such a unique story, I think. So thank you so much for sharing with us today you can tell us where people can find you and I think, especially, you know, make sure to pitch your podcast here, because I think that's extremely, I think, valuable for everyone listening and today.

Laurent Notin:

Of course, of course. So people can find me on my website, lauronautincom. My podcast is called Interviews Cracking the bottleneck, the unproper bottleneck, sorry, laurentnotin. com/ podcast. And the other podcast that you mentioned earlier is the podcast that I host for Destiny, for Nomads Group, and this one can be found on, you know, the best podcast platforms like Spotify, apple Podcast, and also on their website, destinyfornomads. com. Excellent.

Anne Claessen:

We'll make sure to add all the links to the show notes so you can go to the show notes, check the links there, listen to both podcasts. I think both are really really valuable. And, yeah, make sure to follow Laurent and see what he's up to in Finland and, you know, learn from him. Thank you so much for being on the show today, laurent.

Laurent Notin:

Pleasure. Thank you.

Anne Claessen:

And that's it for today. Thank you so much for listening. I appreciate it very, very much. I would appreciate it even more if you could leave a review on Apple Podcasts for me. That way, more people can find this podcast, more people can hear the inspiring stories that we're sharing, and the more people we can impact for the better. So, thank you so much if you are going to leave a review. I really appreciate you and I will see you in the next episode.