The Lived Experience
The lived experience podcast is about sharing real people's stories of lived experiences on a large range of mental health topics.
As a child of a single mother with BiPolar, I wanted to create interviews that would fill the content gap around this subject and lesser-known issues that are covered in the current mental health awareness movement.
Mental health awareness and advocacy go far beyond depression and anxiety. I hope these discussions shine a lot on issues you may not be aware of or even inform you that you are not alone.
Learn more at www.livedexperiencepodcast.com
The Lived Experience
I have lost 5 years of my life to Bipolar Disorder! Interview with Tim Beanland
Tim shares his evolving relationship with bipolar disorder, highlighting how he learned to manage depression and the importance of accountability and support systems. He discusses practical strategies, tackling stigma, and finding purpose to foster resilience while navigating mental health challenges.
• Managing the duration of depressive episodes
• Importance of accountability in recovery
• Establishing non-negotiables for mental health
• Medication management and its role in overall well-being
• Societal stigma surrounding bipolar disorder
• Finding purpose amidst mental health challenges
• The value of shared experiences and education in understanding mental health
If you want to share your lived experience, please contact me via my website.
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Tim, thank you for joining us on our first lived experience episode after a very long time off. I won't go into it too much. I might do another episode why I took so much time off, but great to have you on. Tim's been on a couple of times before to share his story about bipolar disorder and running a business, and Tim wanted to come back on and just sort of talk about his new insights you've gained with your illness and some more, let's say, different thoughts regarding bipolar disorder and how you view things now. So welcome back, Tim, and thanks for jumping on.
Speaker 2:Mate, thank you for trusting me to be the guest back after a break. That's awesome. I appreciate it and, yeah, happy to be here.
Speaker 1:All good mate, no worries. So, with you coming back on, you told me before we did this you had some thoughts about, about your mental illness and about um and how people should approach that in regards to if you, let's say, if you have bipolar disorder or, let's say, another serious mental health challenge. So do you want to just talk about those insights and just tell us a bit?
Speaker 2:So October 2023 to October 2024, I spent depressed. So 12 months, 12 months, yeah, 12 months. I've done the math on amount of episodes. I've had five episodes since I've been diagnosed of depression and one manic. All of those five episodes have lasted 12 months. So that's five years. I'm 31. I just turned 31. So five years of my life has been spent in a depressed state.
Speaker 2:The funny thing that I'm starting to realize is I can't control when the depression happens, but I sure as hell can control how long it lasts, and what I mean by that is depression will hit you, but then what happens is you spend this amount of time just down and bad. It's hard and everything's hard. Everything from replying to a message to getting out of bed to even going for a walk around the block is hard. But what's harder is staying there, is staying in that state, and the benefit of bipolar is once you start to get the medication right and you start to get the lifestyle right and you reach back out again and you have your appointments with your doctors. The benefit of someone with bipolar one or two is your swing up can be quite quick. So, even though I spend 12 months depressed, when I start to get the things moving. I recovered probably in about two weeks. Oh wow, but it got me. It took 12 months to get to that, two weeks to have everything in line to actually upswing. You know which is stuffed, which is very stuffed. But what I've learned this time around is you theoretically should be able to control the length at which you are in that depressive episode. You control that by having systems in place so that when you start to feel it coming on, you tell the person, you reach out to the psychologist. You have so for me now, because the scary thing is my wife didn't know. She knew I wasn't like 100%, she knew I wasn't doing much work, but you put this outward mask on and we've had some really scary chats where she's like Tim, I didn't realize it was that bad, I didn't realize it was that bad. And it got to the point where I was. I explained some things to her that were quite confronting and she said I just didn't know it was that bad. I knew it was bad, but it wasn't, until everyone in the business space started. They started contacting her and they went Tim's not okay, tim's not okay. Lisa thought I was fine and so she got angry at me because the image of what I was portraying was not what was actually happening and she basically was like you're lying to me.
Speaker 2:And it took her in and we developed the plan, and that plan was rigid. It was do these things, do these things, do these things? Accountability and then recovery. So now we have systems in place so that if I feel myself slipping, I tell her she calls a certain friend that lives 20 minutes away, right, and that friend is in business. They understand certain situational problems that I have, right. So Lisa calls him, he comes over, we go for a drive down to Anglesey and we walk on Long Beach, right, and that's a system that we've put in place, because if you can't control the depression, but you can control the length by the things that you put in place.
Speaker 2:That's something that's very interesting to me. It's going to be difficult. I don't know when and, yeah, I had a birthday party and two of my mentors who were there, who care about this stuff. One of them said, oh, I don't think Tim's going to slip again. He's putting stuff in place. I don't think he's going to slip again. And the older mentor said no, he is going to slip again. Right, it is going to happen, but this time you just can't make it be 12 months. So those are the sort of the new insights. It's this idea that you can't control the depression but you can control how it affects you.
Speaker 2:And I think that'll be a very unpopular opinion, because a lot of people use their mental health as an excuse, they use it as a crutch. They say I can't do this because I have blank right. For me that's just not enjoyable, that's not a way to live life, because I've seen what a depressed life looks like. I've seen what a great life looks like. I've seen what a great life looks like. How can we just maintain it? And I'll stop rambling, I'll get you to ask me questions.
Speaker 2:The other thing that I've learned is treatment of bipolar. Apparently, according to my GPs and my psychologist, according to my GPs and my psychologists, everyone with bipolar, all of their bipolar clients or customers or patients, they're all doing things above the normal, above what is considered normal activity. So the treatment of bipolar is actually in slightly higher elevation, because the elevation is easier to treat than a depression. So they're like if we can get you just up, so here's baseline and then just a little bit above that. That's apparently the treatment line according to my GP and professionals around me. Don't know about anyone else, but I thought that was interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it sounds interesting to me, but it'd be very you're playing a fire, though, especially if someone's more prone to mania or hypomania I guess and keeping them above there. How would you do that, especially when tolerance of medication you know if they're on lithium or whatever that tolerance you? Know they become way more tolerant to that, and then you start stuffing around medication, and so it's a bit of a fine line but it's, it's a dangerous, it's, it's absolutely, yeah, absolutely, I think.
Speaker 2:Therefore, then, it depends on the individual. Yes, correct, yeah, like, can that individual bear a little bit of elevation?
Speaker 1:well, it's a great point because, um, I'll sort of think about this out the other day. So because you went like 12 months, like it's a long time, and you know when you look at it and you go, geez, five years lost and you know like what people don't understand, I think, by mental health and depression, the people who just dismiss it. I think it's still a lot of people just when they hear someone depressed and mental health challenges, a lot of people scoff at it. Still, I think I think that's the case until it affects and I never know.
Speaker 1:But, um, the thing for me is like I like just for the layman, like what's stopping you from you realize all this stuff? You're a smart guy, you know this sort of stuff, but when you're in it, what's stopping you from just pull, like how is that? How do you pull yourself out of it all? Like why is it after 12 months that you suddenly then pull yourself out of it? You can't do that after three months or six months. Like what's the moment? Or what stops someone in your position from doing that, when you know exactly what's going on and what you should do? But it's hard to do it.
Speaker 2:I can't speak for everyone, but I can speak for myself. Depressed me is a master of avoidance. I will procrastinate messages I will avoid. I will turn the phone on flight mode. You can't even reach me, right. I will turn it on flight mode so I don't get text messages. I will not be on Facebook during the day because that little active sign. Yeah Right, you know. So I'll go on Facebook at frigging 1 am. Right.
Speaker 1:You're a little green on message. Yeah, I get you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my brain will start thinking of the most genius ways to avoid absolutely everything. And I become amazing at Mario Kart and Super Smash Bros, or Madden or whatever it is, and I every activity that I can possibly do to avoid. I, I, I'm in my office right now. The office door gets closed, right, the, the, the, the blinds, everything's shut, right it's. It's just this big avoidance pattern of the things that, because the trigger will happen, and then for me, because I'm in business, I'll have a whole bunch of clients and the worst thing is some of those clients then you know they can't get on to me, right, and I'm fixing that, I'm very much fixing that, but that guilt of avoidance, avoidance, and then the guilt keeps coming in. So then you avoid more and you avoid more. And it's not until you actually type out and reach out to these people 98% of people when I come back out and I say look, I'm sorry, this is what's happened. You know, I had a personal situation which sparked a depression. I'm going to fix your work, I'm going to finish it for you.
Speaker 2:A lot of people they come back and they say I was just worried about you, I didn't care about the work, you know. So we're living in this time where there's still 2% of people, which is a lot relative to population size there's still 2% of people, which is a lot relative to population size. There's still 2% of people that won't care, they won't empathize and they won't sympathize. But I've been very fortunate with a lot of clients who they go hey, if you can get the work done, that's cool. But we were just worried about you, so that's cool. But what's even better is is putting stuff in place so that that doesn't happen, right, um, but the guilt of that, right? So all of that you're asking. You ask the question how, why don't I do the thing? Because then, like, your brain starts going well, if I can't respond to that person, well, why do I get to go outside and have a walk and why do I get to go and do fun stuff?
Speaker 2:because you punish yourself yeah, you're punishing yourself, exactly yeah, you're punishing yourself and, um, your brain gets very good at then avoiding that situation. But the ironic thing is facing those tough things, facing like sending message, finishing the video, finishing the thing. That is ironically, what then makes you? And for a long time, psychologists were like, oh, how are you? I'm like okay. So now I'm back to 70%. They're like, okay, well, what's the 30%? Well, okay, I need to catch up with Joel. I need to message Joel this week, right, and then I'll message you Okay, great, now I'm at 80%. I've reconnected with Joel, all right, now you're at 90%.
Speaker 2:What's that last 10%? That last 10% is then work, meaningful work, like, and then responding it's almost an immediate. The fucked up thing is it's almost an immediate fix. It's almost an immediate fix once you start doing that stuff and and I think I'm yeah, it's, it's very cool, like, it's very cool and, uh, I think it's funny because the treatment of depression, like the medication alone, won't get you out of it, but it will put you in a position where you can start doing the things that actually will. So it's medication, and then situational and that's the. Yeah, that's the. So, yeah, you don't do the stuff because you're ironically avoiding the stuff. But then eventually it either you get fed up, right. You start to get angry. You go okay, stuff, this I'm angry, like I got angry at myself. Like this is another 12 months, right? Or someone in your life is fantastic enough to get angry at you, right? So my wife, who is South African, was like I get it, I get you're unwell, but it's been 12 months, it's time to do something.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like you can't just sit around and do nothing. Yeah, like I don't care if you're doing nothing, but then if you're not doing anything to actually improve your situation, I can't even help you, right? So this time it was my wife getting angry and upset with me, quite rightly. That was the thing that pulled me out of it, because sometimes you're so insular in like your own little world. It takes someone to actually come and give you the hard love that you need and there's a right time and a right place for that. The last depressive episode before this one was my uncle. That you need, and there's a right time and a right place for that. The last depressive episode before this one, it was my uncle that did that. This time it was my wife that did it, you know, and yeah, like, and it wasn't even, it wasn't a yelling at, it was just a stern, like I get it, I understand, but it's been 12 months.
Speaker 2:What are you doing? Like we need to go and see your psychologist? What's months? What are you doing like we need to go and see your psychologist? What's the steps? And I think the south african kind of mindset of like being very practical and pragmatic and this is a goal. And then you know there's a really good south african phrase called boom aka plan, which is, um, the farmer will make a plan, and that's that's just. It's one of their philosophies. It's like you make a plan, you do it, and that helped this time. That really fucking helped yeah.
Speaker 1:I think, yeah, it's interesting with bipolar and how it's looked at and how it's treated. So just from people who don't know like how does like. Obviously a psychiatrist will prescribe you with medications and anything else. How does a psychologist help in your situation?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the psychiatrist is medical. My psychiatrist is good because he will do some of the talking. He's a good guy. He's also South African. I surround myself with South Africans. They're tough people, yeah.
Speaker 1:Hard workers, they're just hard workers.
Speaker 2:Like there's a guy on the gyms one loser gyms and he's South African. Every time he comes up I'm like this guy's cool. But the psychologist helps with the day-to-day, the tactics, the how are you going? This is the strategy, this is the okay, tim, you're saying that you're waking up at 1 pm and you're closing the blinds and you're making the room dark and then you're staying there until 5. And it's like well, instead of that, why don't you try this and why don't you try this? And it's just someone there that isn't judging you, but they're giving you the practical stuff to go and do. And sometimes it's a case of they're telling you the same thing, and sometimes it's we talked about this last month and you're not doing it and my psychologist her name's Ebony, she's great, she'll probably listen to this as well and it's always been about what? Okay, we understand that you're in a bad space, but like, what can we do? What's the practical thing?
Speaker 2:And a lot of men's mental health isn't really emotional. It's based around situational things that have happened and then managing those. But like, we need a plan. Like for me it's like okay, you can tell me to go for a walk, but why should I go for a walk? A lot of it is just we need solutions because we're stuck in our own head. Um, yeah, so that's what the cycle the psychologist does is. It's it's continually working on, and this is what I um, what we're working on now, like we'll have a session in march of like okay, so now we're working on now, like we'll have a session in March of like okay, so now we're back to a baseline. Yeah, what are we putting in place for when it happens again?
Speaker 1:That's the thing, I think with bipolar, that I always found the issue with my mum was I'm never going to go back in a psychiatric ward again or whatever, and then things will be good and then just revert back to old patterns, the old stuff not eat well, not exercise, and then just not manage it. Well, and there was no. The intention was always good, but it was just no. It just never worked out that way. So, like from a like you have a daily checklist you tick off, or do you have like an app or something where you mark things off that you have to do, or how do you manage it yourself? I?
Speaker 2:mean that could yeah, that could work for other people having checklists and whatever. For me, I just have non-negotiables Right, it is a non-negotiable that. So I could share my screen now and I could show you my calendar. From 7 am to 10 am, I've got a big block every day that says protect, this time for well-being. Awesome, and what that means is my day always goes well. If I get up, go straight, don't even think about it, go straight in the shower, because if you think about that, you're going to stay in bed. So don't even think about it, go straight in the shower. Thanks to our mate jim, I've actually started doing cold showers because I remember yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:So, um, you know, because I remember in the podcast that we did with him uh, he mentioned it right. So I was like okay, there has to be something. I had a few other friend, right. So then bang cold shower. Boom, I'm awake. I'm not gonna go right. I gotta do that, because then I'm not going to go right, I've got to do that because then I'm not going to go back to bed.
Speaker 1:Jim does it after a run, so Jim gets hot and sweaty first. That's kind of cheating, yeah, it is. So he does his treadmill first I like it, but it's kind of cheating yeah so he's not as tough as what you might think with that, but you're tougher than him if you do it with no exercise.
Speaker 2:No, no, look, it's still cold exposure, it's fine. So I've never been a rah-rah motivation cold shower person until the last three months, right. So there's that. And then go for a walk with the dog. You know, he got to a stage as well, depressed, where the dog didn't go for a walk for two or three months. Really, that's just not fair. That's just not fair on the dog. Right, she was fine, she ran out around the backyard, whatever, right.
Speaker 2:But like, sometimes we do things for other people or even animals greater than we will do for ourselves. So like, if the thing is like go for a walk with the dog, it's like now I'm doing something for someone, something, some dog, something else, so the walk, right. And then I don't touch any work until probably 9.30 and I definitely don't have a meeting unless it's a real. Like the person could only meet at 9 am. Okay, fine, I get it, we're working 9 to 5. But like I will really think about it if the meeting's at 9am. Okay, fine, you know, I get it, we're working nine to five, but like I will really think about it if the meeting's at night.
Speaker 2:Like I won't take it. Just won't take it because I'm not even awake by then. So like, also, I don't have a coffee until an hour and a half after waking up. Yeah, that really stings if I have to drive from Werribee to Mumbolk or Werribee to anywhere unless it's Werribee. So, yeah, that morning routine of doing that as a non-negotiable.
Speaker 2:The second thing is like I kept on taking my medication too late. So I take Seroquel, which has a really high sedative effect, which is also known as quetiapine, cerebral quetiapine same thing that has a sedative effect. If I don't take that medication, I don't sleep, and sleep is incredibly important. I'm not going to claim to be a sleep expert, but so the non-negotiable is alarm goes off at 8.30 and I take those pills right, unless I'm out at dinner, or you know, there's variances, but that's a non-negotiable as well, because a lot of the times what happens is people will get better and then they'll convince themselves that they don't need to take the medication because they're better, but ironically, it's the medication that's helped them get better, and there's that. Or there's just genuine forgetfulness. Like a friend of mine, I was really irritable the last week or two, and a friend of mine was like Tim, you know I'm not out of any, but are you taking your medication? I'm like, no, oh, I've been taking the Seroquel but, like the last two days, I stopped lithium. Oh, okay, well, that could have been why I was forgetful and did all that, right. So sometimes we just forget. So the alarm that goes off. So those are the two non-negotiables. Yeah, walk medication at night.
Speaker 2:And then I've said to my wife, I've said, if I can't explain to her what I've done in a day like, as I said, bipolar people always do more than the normal person, right? So I've got a lot of stuff that I do during the day. Some of it's productive, some of it's not, some of it's fun, right. But if I can't tell my wife at least one, two, three things that I've done today, then that's an early warning sign.
Speaker 2:Yes, so picking up on these early warning signs and the scary thing about this last depression was I told her I said I feel like I'm slipping, I feel like I'm doing this, I don't want to get on a meeting, I don't want to do that, and meeting, I don't want to do like and um, picking up on those early warning signs are important but, yeah, those are the sort of the free non-negotiables I'd say is it's like have the walk in the morning, get out of bed, stay out of bed and then, um, do stuff during the day that lights you up for me that's sales calls and business and that, but for other people it could be something else and then at the end of the day, make sure I take my medication. It sounds simple.
Speaker 1:It does sound simple. You know what it's. Not only I know we're talking about bipolar mental health, but I think it's just for everyone. In general, I think everyone needs a routine where they prioritise as opposed to others, especially in the corporate world and stuff. You know, I know I find myself prioritizing other people way over myself and you let your health go and stuff and you get to 55 and all next minute yeah, you got health issues which could have been avoided in your 30s if you started. You know, just had a little routine.
Speaker 2:So I think it's an important thing for everyone it's amazing because we'll put so much time and effort and care into other people but we won't do that for ourselves. Yeah, and quite literally, blocking it off it doesn't have. It doesn't work all the time. It's not 100% foolproof, as I say, sometimes a meeting slips in or a thing, or like I've got to drive to an early networking event, so I don you know, I don't take the dog for a walk. Then I go in the afternoon, right. But having that structure is it helps you fight away the depression, right? I'm in consistent fear of the next episode, but if I put things in place now, I know that that episode just for me. I personally know that I can make it last less than a week easily if I have the right systems.
Speaker 1:You're talking about depressive episodes to you, right yeah, depressive episodes.
Speaker 2:Now that might come and bite me on the ass, right that wording, might you know. My psychologist might clip that out and say, well, this is what you just said, so but yeah, I don't know. I mean, I'm actually weirdly now geez, this is going to sound out of pocket weirdly excited to see what happens the next time depression starts knocking Well to see if your system can work.
Speaker 1:and that's yeah, that's what you mean, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, weirdly excited to like not that I want to, but it's the ripcord, it's the emergency parachute. Have I built that? Because I thought I built that last time and I think if we go back and we listen to the last episode, I was saying that I was doing it, but I really didn't this time. It was a real effort, it was a real like and we're still working on it. Yeah, one in March we'll have more meetings about it, you know, I think everyone, at a basic level, struggles with discipline and consistency.
Speaker 1:Everyone has these daily habits they want to do. It's a very rare individual. I'll say Jim's a freak individual because he's been doing daily exercise since he was 14, in the cold shower since he was whatever 25, whatever like. Daily like doesn't miss. Wow. I think it's a very rare, rare, rare person who can do that. So I don't think it's, even though you're saying it's about yourself. I think it's a very common thing that a lot of people could relate to, regardless if they've got mental health challenges or not, and at least you're attempting to fix or to put these things in place, whereas a lot of people don't, and they know they should, and then it's too late when they get to it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like anything. It's like oh, I want to do that. Oh, that's a good idea. It's like look, there's two things. It's like if you've got a mental illness, it is your responsibility to make sure at least one person knows about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So that could be a professional, that could be a psychologist Really good if it's multiple. But it's also your responsibility to come up with plans to treat the illness and stay well and stay well. Yeah, if I had a broken arm, I wouldn't just walk around with a broken arm.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know I'd go and get it fixed.
Speaker 1:I love what you said there, Tim. I just want to interrupt you back because I think it's a really good point and I think my experience with bipolar was where my mum wanted to stay well, but she didn't know how to stay well. And then I think she just did what she wanted and that was the way it is, and I think that's the key is prioritising yourself to actually stay well and not you know, and like it might sound bad sometimes, but I thought my mum sometimes wanted the attention that she had all the time when she was sort of unwell or had people over left, right and centre with psychs and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It was sort of and liked being high a bit. I guess was the other thing where she could be mannequin sort of stay in that state. So I think having a responsibility to try and stay well and want to stay well is a really it's easier said than done, I guess, but I think with bipolar from my experience anyway, from people I've known with it, I've seen it that's sort of the thing that gets forgotten sometimes.
Speaker 1:I think their responsibility to try and stay well, not just for yourself but for the people around you, and I think that gets lost sometimes. We'll do it with my mum anyway.
Speaker 2:The other thing is when you are well, you can actually use the advantages of your illness. I no longer apart from the last 50 times we've said it in this podcast and called it a mental illness right, it's better said as a mental advantage. So, five years of my life depressed what is the advantage of spending five years in a depression? Well, I've learned a whole bunch about myself. I've got a lot of insights and lessons and knowledge into myself that a lot of people my age don't even have access to, because I've had to do the hard work to pull myself out of that right. And those lessons are incredibly valuable, not just health lessons, but business lessons in life and going on well. My business was doing really well and it failed because of not having that thing in place. So you got to go and do that thing right.
Speaker 2:The depression taught me that. Great lessons, learning in that phase, the growth, is really cool. There's this cool moment when you're coming out of depression where on the upswing, you have a choice of what you bring back into your life. I can choose the people, the projects, the business. I did a friend of mine. I was like can you just come over and do an interview because I want to see if I can even do this again. So I had a choice to stop the business completely or go and do something else or whatever. But I chose to keep going because enough people around me were like, no, you need to keep going. And myself I was like, yes, I need to keep going. So you don't learn that A lot of people don't get that. A lot of people push against a wall of doing the same thing, whereas I've got that ability to kind of step back and go what failed, whereas other people it just fails and they don't know why it failed. I know exactly why I failed and it's because of the spectrum. So mania gives you a level of drive, motivation, passion, influence, creativity, things that I can tap into that people just miss. Because I've got that as a mental advantage.
Speaker 2:All of a sudden you start realizing that whatever you have ADHD, anxiety you know anxiety right. What's the positive of anxiety? Well, if you're heightened, you're very aware of what's going on. So you're probably the safest're very aware of what's going on, so you're probably the safest person to walk around the street with A mate of mine who's a cop now. We were walking in the city and he just very quickly, he just said whatever you do, do not stop walking, just keep walking, just keep walking, because 300 metres away he clocked that there was dodgy people. He said just keep walking, because 300 meters away he clocked that there was dodgy people. I was like just keep walking. He's very sternly just keep walking. I wouldn't have seen that. So what are the things? What are the advantages that your illness can give you? And that's something that I'm also very passionate about, because when you are well, you can tap into the advantages of your illness. Hey, that's cool, that's a quote. When you are well, you can tap into the advantages of what you have.
Speaker 1:Well, a lot of people, if you look at history, who had bipolar or they presumed they had bipolar. Did you know very creative people? I think Vincent van Gogh was one, and there's obviously a few others as well, and you've even got Elon Musk now saying that he reckons he's got it. So that's something where to one of the smartest people on the planet, whether you agree with him or not, but you can see there he's really tapping into it.
Speaker 2:So can you stay. The problem, then, is can you stay well enough for consistently enough and for long enough to actually reap the benefits of it? My mentor, who taught me how to sell, he says, jokingly, he's like I've taught about 19 people my sales framework one-on-one. He's taught thousands of it, one to many, but one to one. He says 18 of them are millionaires. And he jokes that if I didn't go off and you know, be unwell that I'd be well on my way right. And he says that very sarcastically and jokingly but at the same time it's like well, crap, okay, what have I? You know, what have I missed out on because of the five years, you know? And so if you've got bipolar or depression or whatever it is, can you stay well enough to reap the advantages of what it is that you have? And you know, I basically built a business from zero in October. We're now 7th of February to back being sustainable, running everything in the matter of three months. That's great, yeah.
Speaker 1:So you go.
Speaker 2:No, no, no. But yeah, that's the thing is like. Can you stay well enough to reap the advantages Well progress has?
Speaker 1:been made in it, because I don't reckon, you know, from hearing what you're saying to now, I don't reckon in 30 years there's been much progress made at all with bipolar, to be honest, besides maybe some new medications or something besides lithium or whatever, but the theme or whatever. But I don't think there's been much done or that I know of, because it's something that I never really hear spoken about in the general conversation. And then also from what you're telling me, it seems to be like 35 years, 40 years ago, when my mum was going through this thing. It doesn't seem to have changed much in terms of maybe the support's a bit more there, maybe I don't know. I just don't know what beyond that's actually even changed.
Speaker 2:I've been very fortunate in the sense that the help that I've got, both professionally and around me, has been very good.
Speaker 2:But I also grew up in the eastern suburbs so when I had my very first manic and depressive episodes, the system that I was put into was a good system Eastern health they were fantastic. I then got on to my psychiatrist for that right and I've been very fortunate. But I've heard some horror stories of other people who just haven't been that fortunate. So I've been very lucky that the professional help that I've had around me has been very good. But what is happening? I quote you all the time the. The conversation around anxiety and depression is really high, but there's not so much around your schizophrenia and your bipolar and your your podcast is literally the only podcast that goes into that. I know of right, that I know of that goes into the other stuff and it's like when I tell someone I have bipolar, I have to then go into this long explanation about it's bipolar 2 and not bipolar 1 and even that and like management and that's exhausting.
Speaker 1:I think it is and I think people get a really. I think people don't. I'm not saying how, if it's described as serious or not, but I don't think people take. I think when they hear the term, they just think, oh, up and down, you know, that's it. They don't understand the severity of what being up means or if you're down, they don't understand it, the sustained periods and all the behaviours that go with it. I think they're very flippant about it and I think, especially with celebrities and stuff just saying they've got bipolar all the time or whatever it is, I think it gets really watered down in regards to the condition as well, with schizophrenia. I think it's still something that people just think they hear and they've got no idea as well.
Speaker 1:And they just think it's an unmanageable condition too for that one.
Speaker 2:And it's really sad, even with my close network. My mum pulled my wife aside during my birthday dinner and said that she's worried about me because I've gone from being not active to very, very active, right, and my mum was like, is that she was worried? She was like I don't know. And she thought that, like, and I talked to her about it and she's like, yeah, yeah, you're just not yourself. I'm like, no, no, no, but this is me, this is how it's treated. And she didn't understand that. Like, yeah, I'll be a little elevated, I might go off on tangents and talk and whatever, but like, but she didn't realize, and that's just.
Speaker 2:It's so painful because people then start to get worried about activity and I'm doing a lot and they go okay, but then if he keeps going like this, then they just believe it will just burn out, but they don't know the work that I'm doing in the background. I talk about it, but they don't know just how much I'm doing. I talk about it, but they don't know just how much I'm doing to and it's really, yeah, it's not cool because, like, then the people closest to you, it's like and they're coming from a loving place, but it's almost like they don't believe that you'll stay consistent. When, in your mind, that's all you're doing, everything that I'm doing, is so I can stay consistent. And when, in your mind, that's all you're doing, or everything that I'm doing is so I can stay consistent. If I, you know, I look at my calendar, a great day for me is like not back-to-back meetings, because that's silly, I know that's silly, but it's like meeting at 4, meeting at you know 10, meeting at 12, meeting at 3, meeting at 4. That's a great day. That's like a connection day. So that's my Tuesday networking and talking to people. But someone would look at my calendar now and they'd go are you doing too much? I'm not doing too much because I can bear a little bit too much, and that actually is the thing that stops me. As soon as I do nothing, that's when it's concerning.
Speaker 2:It's concerning when I don't post. I went to my university yesterday because I'm better friends with lecturers sometimes and, um, one of the lecturers was like, oh, you've blown up over the last three months. And I just just said, well, I haven't missed a day of posting. I still post Saturday, sunday, linkedin I'm taking it very seriously, but like that's one of the things is if you stop unless I'm away or, like I've told you, I'm away for an extended period. If I haven't posted for a month, there's something wrong. And, joel, like I give you the permission to not just message me but then message Lisa, like you can go through my profile and find her. I'm giving you permission right now that if I haven't posted in a month, you need to send her a message.
Speaker 1:I think it's a week. We've linked in with you, mate. Wow, I think I know it's after three days.
Speaker 2:That's not actually incorrect. That's not actually incorrect.
Speaker 1:That's not actually incorrect right, um, at least monday to friday. I don't see if that's a concern.
Speaker 2:Weekends we take yeah weekends maybe like weekends is sort of. I'll take a picture of my coffee and put it up but what can be done?
Speaker 1:because, like for me with with bipolar awareness or schizophrenia awareness, I think people sort of go jesus, that many mental illnesses and stuff, you know what's what's what, that many mental illnesses and stuff, you know what's what or what it is, and I think you know, I still think bipolar and schizophrenia. I know there's a lot of people who have a lot of passion around that cause and stuff and try and promote it, but I just think it's just lost. It's lost in regards to what the average person will know about it. I don't know if they lump it in with depression and anxiety, for example, or they think it's the same, but I just don't think there's a level of understanding of those conditions unless you're affected by. Anyone who's got a relation or a family member or knows someone with these conditions will know how serious it is.
Speaker 2:I mean, I stopped describing it as bipolar and I just said depression, or I say manic depression because people understand that I still hear that term manic depression. Yeah, I still hear that that's the old school.
Speaker 2:It is Well the Jimi Hendrix song back in the 60s 70s, yeah, yeah, so if I'm talking to someone right, it depends who I'm talking to, right? If I'm talking to someone who's aged 40 to 80, right, I'll just say depression, because the conversation is around on that, they get it, they understand. I don't have to go through talking and explaining about bipolar if it's someone who's 15 to 40 bipolar, because the conversation is there, they get it. There's been tv shows, there's been other things you don't have to explain.
Speaker 2:So it's this weird kind of waiting game that we're playing of like when will everyone fully understand everything? And I don't think you can expect everyone to fully understand everything. I think if you tackle mental health as the umbrella and then people understand depression and anxiety, great, so now there's a level of conversational awareness and understanding. But then it's up to education to go. Well, there's bipolar and there's this and the DSM-5 and, like you know, high school education. If you do psychology, you learn a little bit about it. And you know I was, like it's everywhere.
Speaker 2:My first date with my wife, she told me that she studied neuroscience and that was her first degree as a neuroscientist. So from the very first date I said, well, this is what I have. So she knew from day one, right, and I was confident enough because she had the actual education on how the brain works, right. So but other people I wouldn't have been as confident to tell you and that's you know the universe and all that stuff. You could argue right, but like um, uh, yeah, uh, I think it's it's good that the conversation is there. I don't know what else it sort of comes in a way.
Speaker 1:But I think when there's an incident where someone says they've got mental health challenges, um, I think that's something where it always brings it back in the conversation. I do think that you always facebook comments, you know, sometimes I'll read on a story and you'll see when someone has mental health and you say, oh, you'll see someone go another mental health claim or get off because they cite mental health, and you'll see someone go, oh, another mental health claim or get off because they cite mental health. And I understand there's a balance as well, and it's sort of a hard one, like if there is a crime or something committed and there's a mental health challenge with the person.
Speaker 1:Obviously, that has to be taken into effect by the court. But I think people just dismiss it or everyone's using it as an excuse.
Speaker 2:Even in workplaces. That's where it's a problem. If you're using this mental health as an excuse and a crutch, then don't.
Speaker 1:It's a hard one, I think workplaces as well. It's a big one with workplaces, where you have someone who might be generally stressed or whatever, and if they do speak up and say it, they fear for their reputation or their job moving forward because they're going to be tarnished.
Speaker 2:But it's just about communication and telling so. When I was working at a nine-to-five job, I was about to get promoted into a senior role and I just pulled my boss aside and went into his office. I said look, before you hire me, I have to tell you this. And I just told him. I said I've got bipolar. Very luckily, that boss was like well, my best friend has that as well, so he understood. So that then when it came around that I had a mental health break that meant I had to leave the job. It wasn't a matter of well, tim's lied and he's done this and done that. Like I told him up front. That's what happened. And then, and and since you know, um, bruce and I went out to writing a book together and I've since asked him about that and he said well, there was no hard feelings because you told me up front and you told me that these are the things that you were doing to manage it.
Speaker 1:Whereas most people might not feel that comfortable because generally, the HR department's responsibility is to protect the company and their interests, and not yours, despite what people may think. So avoid going to HR if you can.
Speaker 2:But the issue is people fail to have a genuine human conversation about it. You just say this is what I have and this is what I'm doing to manage it. It's no different For me. It's no different than if I am sick for a week with a cold and it's like, well, this is what I'm doing to get better. It's like I don't know. I think I'm a little bit just because of what I do for work and I'm more inclined to have that uncomfortable conversation.
Speaker 1:No, it's good, it's honesty and that's what people need. But I think the where do you see the improvements being made with mental health over the coming years? Because for me it's sort of it's always in the conversation and there's a lot of charities and always the mainstream media would get on every now and again with sort of this stuff. But like the actual, like you saw the footballers who passed away Two footballers passed away in the space of two days and you sort of think, well, there's all this awareness and men need to speak up and this, and that yet this sort of stuff happens. I think what's going on.
Speaker 2:Right is you've got organisations that are doing a lot of the talking and you're not having people with the actual illnesses doing a lot of the talking. For a lot of reasons, we don't want to come out, we don't want to talk about it, we don't want people to judge it right. So I think there's been enough charities. There's been enough events of the healthy people telling the unwell people that it's okay not to be okay. Right, but that's not coming from a lived experience angle. It's coming from a we're putting this charity thing on because we think that's what we should do, you know, and they have the best intentions in the world for doing it, but it's never the people speaking and never the people that are actually unwell. It's the friends of the people and and that creates generally too late as well.
Speaker 2:It's generally after the fact and that's yeah, it's after the fact, right. So I think the actual thing that's going to make a change is more of the podcasts like this, more of people like me coming out and saying, well, these are the challenges that I've had and this is how I'm managing it and this is what I'm now doing, in spite of that illness, and it's a scary thing. Like you know, you Google my name and I didn't Google it. A client of mine Googled me right, it's okay to Google yourself.
Speaker 1:I'm not egotistical enough to Google my name.
Speaker 2:A client Googled me. The first thing that came up was a podcast that you and I did together.
Speaker 2:Oh, cool which is awesome Talk about long-tail SEO, about appearing on a podcast. But you know, will there be some people that do not do business with me because they find that out about me? Yeah, they will. But are they the actual people that I want to work with? No, of course not, absolutely not, absolutely not. So for me, it's a no-brainer to get on your podcast or get on Mario's podcast, especially after an episode, because stuff like this from a selfish standpoint, my psychologist can listen to it and go well, tim, that's what you said, that's what you said, right? And then from a philanthropic thing, I'm very aware that it's very rare for someone to get on and talk about mental health like I talk about it. I've been to the support groups, I've been to the stuff, I've said the stuff that this is my opinion on mental health, and I've almost been walked out of the room because they want to be victims and that's what I was going to interrupt you and literally just say.
Speaker 1:then you just took the words out of my mouth. I think that's, I think, a massive point which doesn't get taken into it. My mum was never wanting to be me personally. My mum was never wanting to be a victim. People like me the name of my pa never want to be the victim. They're just sort of oblivious to everyone else and want to do what they're going to do. But I think that's a really really, really good point that, yes, there's a challenge in stuff as well, but what are you doing about trying to improve your situation and using the resources and support as well and, I think, staying in a victim mindset the whole time?
Speaker 1:I think it's not a. I know it might be a bit controversial to say it, but I think there's a time where we need to sort of move beyond that. We do have to have empathy and stuff, but I think just people staying in a perennial victim mindset it's exactly and really cool full circle.
Speaker 2:It's exactly what my wife did to get me out of this depression. So if you're interested to get out of depression, the answer is sometimes you just need some tough love. It's not about the caring love and oh, you'll be okay, and this. That it's. This is how much time you've spent here. Get out of it.
Speaker 1:And you know what's the worst thing, tim, is that someone who knows you and knows your condition enables you to stay in that state. If they do that, yeah, that's terrible and that's what I'm saying. Like you know, if someone is trying to enable you or all they just do is when you tell them to.
Speaker 2:Well, it's enablement, because the general conversation is, oh, don't push them too hard. And don't push them because then you don't know what happened. No, that's absolute garbage. That's absolute garbage. Yes, soft care, soft love, especially if it's maybe the first two, three months. But if you're depressed for longer than two or three months, you know from my personal circumstances, get some tough love, and just you know, and I'm very fortunate to have a wife that has the ability to do that, and I have an uncle who has an army background, who also has the ability to fly down from sydney and pull me out of my bed. But for me that works and I don't. I also don't see that not working for other people. But if we're too caring and too loving and too this, that and oh, you'll be okay, just keep doing it. That's enabling, yeah, and that's not a popular opinion at all.
Speaker 1:No, it's definitely not, and I think you know anyone who's listened to the podcast and disagrees. Please don't leave a bad review. But I agree with you and I think constantly enabling it to a point it's just really destructive, because people's identity because their identity becomes the illness.
Speaker 1:You don't want to be a victim. You don't want to have your identity centralised around being a victim in what was me and it's interesting because you know yourself's one of the two people I knew really well at Blood Polar. We never wanted to be the victim. They were the complete opposite. Why can't I do all these things? I, we never wanted to be the victim. They were the complete opposite. Why can't I do all these things? I can do this course, I can do this job, I can do this. It was always the opposite. Why can't I do this thing?
Speaker 1:And they went for a lot more Some people who might not have bipolar, who might have other challenges, seem to wallow in the state of victimhood as much as they can.
Speaker 2:I got properly diagnosed with everything, sort of the final years of my marketing degree and I was encouraged to go up and tell the lecturers this is what's this, and I might get extensions for things because of that and I'd get special consideration. All I would do is I'd go up and I'd say this is the case. So if I don't rock up to classes, that may be why, but I'm not using it. I said to one of the lecturers one day his name was David. I said David, this is what's happened, this is this, but I'm not using it as an excuse. And he said let's have a coffee and talk about it.
Speaker 2:And he actually cared. He listened, he's like, okay, well, this, this and this, this. And I still talk to him to this day because he took the time to actually understand. And then it wasn't a case of special advantage, it was a case of this is just the deal and this is how I'm managing it. I think that's been the theme of today's chat is it's like you can have an illness, but what are you doing to manage the illness 100%?
Speaker 1:I think that's the key. What are you doing to be well? You don't want to stay unwell the whole time. What are you actually doing about it and moving forward, Can you put things in place to eradicate that all? Because you know what would it say about a person who wants to constantly stay being unwell, like to get attention or to get whatever. You know what I mean. Like, I'm sure there are people who do that, but that's a big challenge with mental health, because I think a lot of people who don't understand much about mental health think that's what people are doing.
Speaker 2:The thing is right, joel as well. It's also very comfortable. Yes, so this is the life of depressed Tim right, I open my eyes at 11am, I go and immediately make the room dark and go back to sleep, wake up at 12. I maybe then stay in the bed between 1 and 3 and then I'll get up and I'll play Nintendo or Madden or you know, or watch YouTube videos.
Speaker 2:On the outside that seems like a chill day, you know, on the outside it seems like a chill day, but inside you're like holy shit, why am I doing this? I'm ruining all this stuff. But it becomes comfortable, and I said that to a Navy SEAL friend once and he was like the comfort is what keeps you there and that's what stops your growth. So get out of it, get uncomfortable. And then he went on this big rant about buds and it was great. It was great, it was good, it was, yeah, very cool. Actually, it'd be a cool one to interview. I think. If you want to interview a Navy SEAL, I'll connect it, just let me know after the show if you want.
Speaker 2:But yeah, so the comfort. And that's the scary thing, because that can almost keep you there, because then there's things in place and you get this advantage and this advantage, and then, all of a sudden, you're stuck in this comfort zone. What's the thing that's finally going to slap you out of it? Which? For me, it was tough love and it was my wife.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think people like staying there and they build an identity around staying there, or they might even label themselves first as they identify as the illness, and that's a concerning thing. That's scary.
Speaker 1:I think that's what puts a lot of people off when it comes to mental illness and mental health, where they see a lot of people, let's say, promote it or talk about it all the time in sort of a I don't know bragging way or something like that. I guess they see me trying to monetize it or whatever it is which I've seen a few people trying to do a lot online which quite I don't follow a few people actually on LinkedIn all the time because literally they're just to me anyway.
Speaker 1:They look like they're just trying to monetize courses and monetize coaching and corporate workshops and stuff with the story, which I really find dubious. But yeah, there's a lot we can talk about, mate, but I know we've got a hard out today. Yeah, there's a lot we can talk about, mate, but I know we've got a hard out today so real quickly.
Speaker 1:You mentioned you're working on a book, so what else are you doing at the moment in terms of you've got your video authority? Business starting up which is three months of content in a day you can film.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So my work revolves around creating three months of video in 45 minutes for my clients, very much following the philosophies that you've used and everything you know. Just put your content out. Like, the more content you put out, the easier your sales become. It's just. You've seen that, right. You've seen people come to training based off TikTok videos. The ridiculous thing is you can do a lot of it for free, right? So, apart from hiring the experts like you or me or you know, no, not the expert You're not the expert mate.
Speaker 1:I was going to say as well, then the book. What's the book you're doing?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so working title, so I won't release the title. But basically my mentor came to me he said Tim, you need to make Rain or Hay While the Sun Shines. He's coming to the end of his career and he's taught 19 people that selling system. They're all millionaires. So he wants to put that down in a book and I actually took his system and developed it into something new for online. So he was selling in the 70s, 80s and 90s, whereas I you know. So, yeah, the book that'll come out later this year um nice, yeah, so that'll be good, I'll let you know, awesome.
Speaker 2:And then, yeah, it's just building the business because, ironically, the business keeps me healthy. All right if I'm talking to people, if I'm filming in the way that you know that I film, you know that just keeps me healthy. So so, ironically, running a business is healthy.
Speaker 1:Does it give you a purpose as well?
Speaker 2:you'd say oh, definitely.
Speaker 1:I think a core thing. Like I've been talking a lot I listen to a lot of Jim's stuff at the moment and his population decline I think the one thing that keeps coming up is purpose. What is purpose and what is your purpose? And if people don't have a purpose to ground their why in or whatever it can be, quite thinking, I don't think there's anything wrong with saying a lot part of your purpose is work.
Speaker 2:I think that's it. No, no, you're like I like. The benefit of running a business is you get to do something that is so aligned to your purpose and passion that, yeah, they'd like it's not even work. Oh, oh, you enjoy it you know I've got a scheduling time in my calendar to stop working right, so because that's also healthy, yeah, that's also healthy yeah, well, you're good man, I'll let you go because I know we got both a hard out, but thanks for your time today.
Speaker 1:Tim, on the lived experience, really appreciate the chat. Hopefully people don't get too annoyed by what you're saying or what I was saying, but um, please go I think the, I think the clips are going to be very controversial yes, I'll do some clips and we'll see the clips will not be in context and it'll rage bait a few people yes, we'll see what happens. And yeah, we'll see what happens out of that, but I appreciate it. Thanks, mate. Enjoy your weekend.
Speaker 2:Thanks, mate bye, thanks, bye, awesome hey, uh, yeah, just maybe.
