The Mythology in Sci-Fi (Star Wars)

Can a film franchise transcend its medium to become a cornerstone of the mythology of ancient aliens? Join us as we unpack the extraordinary cultural impact of Star Wars since its inception in 1977. With insights from Joe Landry, Laurie Oldford, and special guest, Larry Oldford.  We explore how Star Wars has not only revolutionized cinematic experiences but could also serve as a future oral tradition in a post-apocalyptic world. We reflect on its transformative influence on audiences and its potential to be perceived as historical lore by future generations.

Controversies have been part and parcel of Star Wars adaptations, and we tackle these head-on, from the introduction of midichlorians of the Force to Disney's recent direction with the franchise. We discuss how these decisions have shifted the narrative, sometimes alienating long-time fans. The debate extends to whether Disney's focus on contemporary ideologies over traditional storytelling has impacted the essence of the saga. Despite differing opinions, our shared love for the franchise remains evident, and we invite our listeners to form their own views and join us for future episodes filled with engaging discussions.

*The content of this podcast is based only on the views of the hosts and are not those of the motion picture corporations, franchises, or guilds; nor does it imply any endorsements from them.*

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Transcript

Joe: 1:01

Hello everybody, thank you for joining us on Alien Talk Podcast. This is the show where we discuss all things about aliens and UFOs and, as always, where we push the limits of our understanding. Joe Landry and Roy Olford here once again to seek out the truth and find the facts pertaining to the highly discussed issues about extraterrestrial life and the existence of UFOs. So this is the fourth show in our series covering the mythology of sci-fi, where we closely examine the so-called truth in fiction to find what lies within the great imaginations, to reveal our intuitive knowledge.

Joe: 1:34

When we return, we're going to spend time talking about sci-fi phenomena that has touched our culture in everything from fantasy storytelling to political ideology to military illusion. That, of course, is the mother of space opera, science fiction and action thrillers, the one that holds the standard of creativity and cannot be compared to anything else in the movie-making industry. It is Star Wars. Not only has it completely transformed the motion picture experience of nearly everyone, but has also defined the nuances of every generation since its initial release, which is now nearly 50 years ago. So stay tuned. We'll be back in one subject that rhymed.

Joe: 2:21

Greetings. We're technically a conversation, a podcast for curious people by curious people.

: 2:27

On our podcast, we do things just a little bit different Every week we share a new topic and the other hosts have no idea what the topic will be.

Joe: 2:34

Our topics are all over the place, from light and funny to dark and sometimes spooky.

Speaker 2: 2:39

We've covered everything from true crime, historical events and people, the supernatural and the occult. I like that Urban legends and folklore.

Joe: 2:47

My favorite.

: 2:48

No matter what we cover, we try to make the episodes interesting and funny.

Speaker 4: 2:53

Don't mean to be the bad guy, but our lawyer said we legally couldn't call our show funny.

Speaker 2: 2:56

We have a lawyer. Let me tell you what I told our lawyer. Come here so I can show you how far I can legally stick my high-heeled boot up your Check us out at technicallyaconversationcom, apple Podcasts, spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 4: 3:10

Technically a Conversation. We're like a lifestyle brand yeah.

Joe: 3:17

Okay, so I can't think of too many other movies that have been made that have left an impression on the world in the way that Star Wars has. Everyone knows about it. I think everyone has seen it. The release of all the episodes spans a period of about 40 years. With each one, the very beginning, the opening, hits you the same exact way as it did with the very first one you ever saw. Now, lori, I'll never forget when I first saw Star Wars back in 1977. It was on my ninth birthday and I just thought it was the most incredible thing I've ever witnessed. It truly broke the mold for motion pictures and what producers, directors and actors could deliver to audiences, as well as what audiences would eventually come to expect from the big screen at the cinemas, from the big screen at the cinemas.

Speaker 5: 4:02

Yeah, you're definitely right about that, joe. Star Wars is truly the greatest sci-fi film of all time and is also the largest movie franchise of all times. I can't think of any other that has had such an enormous impact on modern Western culture. Whenever there are conversations at the workplace, a quote from any of the Star Wars characters will most likely be used in the conversation. Somehow it's even been used in other movies, such as the one called Reign of Fire, which is a post-apocalyptic movie about dragons that have spawned and almost annihilated the human race.

Speaker 5: 4:40

There is a scene in that movie where two characters perform a play for young children and the story they enact is a lightsaber fight between Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader.

Speaker 5: 4:53

So I love that movie and I really enjoyed that scene because that's exactly what will happen in our future society after an apocalyptic event. Not saying dragons are going to be roaming our skies, but I'm referring to the stories our future generations will tell without the technology and lifestyle we have today. So if there ever happens to be a cataclysmic event World War III or asteroid crash or whatever then these Star Wars stories will eventually become oral tales told by surviving humans, and maybe some people will have copies of the books and will later be found and read. However, over time, the stories will become tradition, handed down from generation to generation for hundreds, perhaps even thousands of years, and once someone stumbles upon a book of Star Wars found hidden away in some jar or enclosed airtight case, well, they become something like the Dead Sea Scrolls, and what I mean is will they be referred to as a history of a civilization that we knew of in a faraway galaxy, and will the translators think that these stories are just legend or based on truth? How will they know?

Joe: 6:10

Right, and if such future historians are to come across some material about the saga, they would probably view it as a mythical fable, in the same way we do at this point in time about something like the Epic of Gilgamesh or the Hindu Mahabharata. They would probably see it as something that serves as an imaginative agent expressing humanity's quest for immortality and for connecting with the unknown. So today we have a very special guest joining us who is very knowledgeable about the lore of the Star Wars universe, and, laurie, I will give you the honor of introducing him.

Speaker 5: 6:45

Thank you, Joe. And that special reason is because the special guest is my son, my only begotten son, as I like to say, and his name is Larry and he is about to be promoted in the US Air Force and he is a very intelligent young man. And welcome to the show, Larry.

Speaker 4: 7:07

Thanks, Dad, Very excited to be here. Disclaimer before we start the opinions expressed by me in this podcast are my viewpoints alone and not of the Department of Defense. Thanks for having me on.

Speaker 5: 7:19

Of course, I couldn't imagine doing this type of show without your input. You know, joel, star Wars is like a religion in our family. I love it, my wife loves it and our children love it. See what I did there. Remember the conversation between Luke and Leia in Return of the Jedi, where Luke is telling her about the Force being strong in his family?

Joe: 7:39

Yes, I do get it.

Joe: 7:42

So, larry, first of all, thank you for joining us and also congratulations on your upcoming promotion.

Joe: 7:49

Thank you, we're excited to hear what you have to offer to the discussion tonight, as our thesis, if you will, is to examine the underlying human mythology, philosophy and symbolism that forms the powerful theme of the storyline and characters of Star Wars. The renowned Carl Jung once said that imagery, symbols and myths are how our unconscious minds are unveiled. So we've been discussing these science fiction movies in ways that perhaps most people don't, that being, not to focus so much on the saga and the plot but on the psychological fabric and the fantasy much on the saga and the plot, but on the psychological fabric and the fantasy and that it reveals our innate desire to get in touch with the world of the extraterrestrial, the world of the mysterious and even the ethereal realm of the divine. So, larry, star Wars is definitely a story about ancient aliens. We know that because of the opening text, where we see displayed right before the start, a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away. What is it that has made it so impactful?

Speaker 4: 8:55

that this movie's popularity now spans across four generations. Well, first of all, what I enjoy most about the stories within Star Wars is their profound impact on our everyday lives. It's not just the narrative that stands out, it's the entire experience, from the iconic soundtrack to the meticulous pacing and the themes that resonate through the characters' actions and motivations. Take, for example, the throne room scene in Return of the Jedi. In my opinion, this is one of the greatest moments in creative storytelling. Without diving too much into details, the scene embodies themes like loyalty to family, even when things seem irredeemable. So Luke believing that they're still good invader, maintaining your virtues in the darkest times. So this is when Luke throws away his lightsaber and refuses to keep on fighting, striving for noble ambitions, so like him being you know, saying I'm a Jedi, like my father before me, and selflessness leading to redemption. And obviously, this is when Vader sacrifices himself for his son.

Speaker 4: 9:54

The storytelling in this scene is gripping and engaging. The dialogue between the Emperor and Luke is sharp and dynamic. This is that constant back and forth between the Emperor and Luke is sharp and dynamic. This is that constant back and forth. This creates a tense atmosphere without resorting to exposition dumps. The contrast between the throne room's lingering tension and the fast-paced action of the Death Star battle adds layers to the movie-going experience. Most importantly, the characters' motivations are believable and relatable. Luke's struggle to stay calm while the Emperor taunts him is something many can sympathize with. It's kind of like dealing with that annoying kid at recess who just wants to be ornery. You know the Emperor says you want this, don't you? We all know that kid. Well, anyway, all this culminates together into why it has an effect on our lives. Today. We have bonded with these stories it tells on an emotional level, due to how much we can sympathize with it, along with the philosophical undertones it has and how effective the storytelling is.

Speaker 5: 11:01

Yeah, very well put, larry. You know, star Wars is full of mythology, theology and even Eastern mysticism and Daoism, and there is no better place to discuss a franchise full of aliens than on Alien Talk Podcast. In an article by Reuterscom dated December 4, 2015, by JL Surgeon, titled Star Wars Proves Treasure Troll for Philosophers, discusses the nature of good and evil, free will, the prophecy of a chosen one and the true nature of the Force. George Bakken, a professor of philosophy at Adams State University in Colorado, said that Star Wars is very powerful because it helps us understand ourselves in the light and dark side of the Force, and we feel this in our lives when we have this pool of immediate gratification, but a desire to achieve long-term goals than 30 years. Academics, students and people of faith have used Star Wars as a springboard to explore themes like moral ambiguity, father-son relationships, concepts of feminine beauty and the yearning for something better in life.

Joe: 12:19

Yeah, there is even a book that they reference, by an author named Caleb Grimes. He wrote Star Wars Jesus, which illustrates young Luke Skywalker's initial yearning for something more in life and how it echoes to our desire to know a personal God. So, indeed, spiritualism is a major theme in Star Wars, and even well before Backen and Grimes, whose works are pretty recent, well before Backen and Grimes, whose works are pretty recent. It was a book that came out around 1977, same year as the movie by a guy named Frank Allnut. It's titled the Force of Star Wars.

Joe: 12:52

I remember looking it over at one point, and what it is is a literary comparison between all of the mystical aspects of the movie with Christianity. For instance, it drew the analogy of the force with God and with Obi-Wan Kenobi with Jesus. Luke Skywalker was representative of the Jewish converts to Christ, han Solo was that of Gentile converts and, of course, the Emperor was Satan, darth Vader was the Antichrist, and so, while it served as a good analysis and comparative mythology, it is very outdated and no longer relevant. Remember it came out before there was ever a trilogy. It was just the one movie when this book came out. So it doesn't take into the account of how Luke is Darth Vader's son or how he is Princess Leia's sister. It doesn't take into the account of the role of Yoda in the Jedi Council, which become more prominent later.

Joe: 14:17

So as more episodes unfold, we see that Allnut's description of the Force as being something like the Judeo-Christian god doesn't hold true to the story's dialogue, and when the book was published, I don't even think the Emperor was named yet as Palpatine, and I doubt that it is a very prolific book any longer. But it is clear that there is a religious tone to the whole saga. Apparently, there are even college courses on philosophy that use the movie as its basis. So, larry, do you think part of the whole appeal of Star Wars to the masses has something to do with the spiritual and theological aspect to it?

Speaker 4: 15:01

Well, it's not surprising to me that academia is using Star Wars as a springboard to explore deeply into philosophy, mysticism, mythology, theology and spiritualism. This is something I've been benefiting from for my entire life. Building on your points about the nature of the light side and dark side and our desire for a personal God, I am a firm advocate of these concepts. I believe that having some sort of belief system is essential for gauging the quality of our actions. Without a moral compass or virtues, how can we really hold ourselves accountable? This is why I agree with your statements and further emphasize the impact of Star Wars. It helps people formulate a belief system and moral compass rooted in the ologies and the isms that have a successful track record for thousands of years. Furthermore, star Wars is incredibly engaging, and I imagine it's easier for college students to conceptualize deeper, complex concepts when they are presented through a familiar and compelling story.

Speaker 5: 15:59

You know, joe. You know we remember when Star Wars first came out and how it shocked the world, and I often think about how life would be like if Star Wars did not exist. So imagine if there was no evil Sith Lord named Darth Vader. It's like we are living in the right place and time for it to be such a cultural phenomenon. It makes you wonder if its influence was instilled upon George Lucas by something supernatural, and I mean sure he got some of his inspiration from Flash Gordon and all but America had to exist for Star Wars to come about, and composer John Williams was born with the musical talents to conduct these perfect scores of music to coincide with these stories.

Speaker 5: 16:44

So can you imagine Star Wars without the John Williams scores? The music enhances our senses and builds the experience to even more enjoyment of the films, like Larry said earlier, and sometimes I would just play the soundtracks to relax and, you know, to even get inspiration sometimes. And the point I'm trying to make here is that what if there is, you know, something on scene that's behind the consciousness of man, that it influences the minds of people to do certain things and to bring those thoughts to fruition? So what if our consciousness is connected to something more powerful that is also very ancient, that is a symbiote that attaches itself to a host such as a human body. Could the memories of that intelligence be influencing the imagination of its hosts? If that's the case, then are movies like Star Wars hints from lost civilizations in galaxies far, far away?

Joe: 17:45

Well, for one, I certainly can't imagine a world without Star Wars. That's something I can't conceive. It is so ingrained into the fabric of our culture. Remember how, in the Theosophist School of Blavatsky and Steiner, we talked about that at some point there is a notion of the Akashic Records, which is an energy field that contains every thought, emotion, concept, idea and event, every cognitive process that ever existed and ever was and ever will exist. Why? With every mind being connected from the past, it's like every mind being connected from the past to the present and from everywhere within the cosmos.

Joe: 18:27

And we've always known that Star Wars was way ahead of its time. I mean from the very beginning. It was just decades ahead of its time, and you can see the influence of Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers and even Star Trek. But it is its own genre. It is unique. It does seem to have its roots in the idea of collective memory, of collective unconsciousness. Consider the Indian mathematician who lived over 100 years ago. Named Shrivanabhasa Ramanujan, he was able to derive these very complex equations from calculus and number theory that were so elaborate that they're even used today by researchers in the field of quantum physics. He was known to have said many times throughout his life that an equation has no meaning unless it represents a thought belonging to God.

Speaker 5: 19:20

Well, yeah, and that's what I was talking about. And in an article by Roshni Chakrabarti with India Today, dated December 23rd 2022, stated that Ramanujan was certainly ahead of his time. He was self-taught and turned out to be one of the most significant mathematicians in history, and by the time he was 13 years old, he worked on his own sophisticated theorems, even calculating the exact length of the Earth's equator by using analytical geometry. And his mother actually claimed to have had a vivid dream from the patron goddess of the family named Namagiri, who ordered her to stand no longer between her son and the fulfillment of his life's purpose. So you have to wonder if creating Star Wars wasn't George Lucas's ordained purpose in life.

Joe: 20:21

And Ramanujan actually credited his own ingenuity to the goddess Mahalakshmi, who is said to have appeared to him in a dream and from whom drops of blood fell to the ground. And from them the drops of blood, there appeared scrolls which contained these very intricate calculus equations that he was eventually able to decipher, and at the end of his life, ramanujan left behind three large notebooks filled with almost 4,000 equations and theorems. So did his beliefs in Hinduism and Transcendentalism play some kind of role in his intellectual enlightenment, and if so, is that an example of how ingenuity and knowledge come from, an energy that we can tap into so as to take our minds to a higher level and accomplish things that, as we have seen, some incredible people do?

Speaker 4: 21:16

Larry, you have anything to say, I do. It is interesting thinking about all that stuff. It's also interesting to think how the world would actually be if Star Wars didn't exist. Shockingly, some people might not even be affected, as there are a great many people who haven't even seen Star Wars yet. Its subliminal impact on our culture is undeniable.

Speaker 4: 21:36

The creative practices of countless individuals have been influenced by Star Wars. Just take the Acolyte series, for example. It's heavily influenced by Star Wars as Kathleen Kennedy tries to reshape the narrative by doing the complete opposite of what Star Wars stands for. But ultimately I feel people would still be influenced in similar ways with another intellectual property if Star Wars will be there. People resonate with what made Star Wars popular Its themes, its storytelling and its characters. If Star Wars didn't exist, another franchise like I think Dungeons Dragons was out around the time or some other technological marvel of its time would have likely filled that cultural niche. But I think it's the ideas and the values that resonate and those can find a home in many different forms of storytelling or even beliefs like the force well, when we return after this important ad, we'll get into the force and a possible connection to chi from Buddhism.

Speaker 5: 22:34

So we'll be right back.

Speaker 6: 22:55

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Speaker 5: 23:50

All right, and we're back. So, yeah, our new novel, Battle Planet AD Relic of the Gods, is available now. So please purchase a copy. We know you'll find it not only entertaining and filled with action and mystery, but also inspirational. Any support you can give us to help us keep this podcast going is greatly appreciated. Any support you can give us to help us keep this podcast going is greatly appreciated. So we were saying about the force, which is a central aspect that sticks out in the film is a mystic power throughout the universe that many folks would say is akin to God, and my favorite quote is when Yoda is teaching Luke about it, where he says for my ally is the force, and a powerful ally it is. Life breeds it, it makes it grow Luminous beings, are we not this crude matter? You must feel the force around you, between you, me, the rock everywhere.

Joe: 24:53

And this idea of an all-powerful force and how to use it sounds similar to the Chinese chi't it. Well, yeah, it does. You didn't use your yoda voice, though. I mean, it's not not quite the same, but I'll give you some latitude there no one does beings are we?

Speaker 5: 25:03

there's crude matter all right.

Joe: 25:06

So, yeah, chi uh, or prana, as it's referred to in hinduism, is supposed to be a life force energy, and it is found in all living things, but humans have the ability to manipulate and utilize it in special ways. Some people are believed to be better able at doing that than others. Take Yuri Geller, the famous Israeli psychic, who was said to be able to carry out telekinesis, which is the manipulation of matter, by using the mind, by using thought. He was supposedly able to bend spoons and make clocks stop ticking and then start up again, and there was a BBC documentary that aired in July of 2013 where Geller, as he, was known as a psychic spy for Mossad, which is the Israeli intelligence agency, like our version of the CIA. He claimed he was able to erase the memory from hard drives and floppy disks if you can recall what those actually are by simply chanting the word erase and then visualizing what should be erased, projecting the mental processes out into the physical world. Now, geller also stated that this telekinetic ability was given to him by extraterrestrials. So, even if this cannot be verified or proven, he, like anyone else, may have had an extraordinary capacity to quote, hear the voice, unquote, maybe even send it. So while his spoon bending may not hold up to scrutiny, we must remember that he is not the first person who was said to be able to move matter without touching it.

Joe: 26:45

The Bible does have many stories where the laws of motion are violated. Inertia and chemistry are violated in these stories of the Bible. What seems more important, though, is scripturally speaking. The message is revealed through visions and dreams that God is speaking, so as to be recorded in the form of writing.

Speaker 4: 27:08

In addition to that, there's also thinking of chi. So there's also thinking of qi. So there's an article on the mindjournalcom titled Do you often wake up between 3 am to 5 am? This is what it means. It talks about qi, energy in traditional Chinese medicine, and it sounds a lot like the force.

Speaker 4: 27:26

The article says Our body is full of channels through which energy is directed to our whole body. These channels are called meridians. Kind of sounds like midichlorians in Star Wars, the intelligent life forms in Star Wars galaxy that live in all living things. They form a symbiotic relationship with their hosts, like you were talking about earlier, dad. The force speaks through these midichlorians and the higher your midichlorian count, the more sensitive you are. Dad, the force speaks through these midichlorians and the more, the higher your midichlorian count, the more sensitive you are to the force. So, going back to the article, it also says that if a meridian is troubled, then chi cannot flow through it. So I guess, in this sense, having fear and anger would be troubling traits to the flow of meridians, as it leads to suffering. This aligns with Yoda's teachings about fear, anger and suffering disrupting one's connection to the force. It's fascinating how these concepts, whether chi or the force, speak to a universal idea of energy and balance that transcends cultures and connects deeply with our understanding of the world and ourselves.

Joe: 28:32

Well, you know another thing that's interesting the word midichlorian sounds a lot like the word mitochondria, which is an organelle in the cytoplasm of our cells. Its function is to regulate respiration, which in turn controls how our bodies are converting glucose into energy, changing ATP adenosine triphosphate into ADP adenosine diphosphate, in order to keep us living. It's the power plant of the cell. It also contains DNA that originally comes from the mother's side, and there is a theory called symbiogenesis, in which cells of complex organisms evolve from those of simpler ones through symbiosis or coming together and working together to form a more sophisticated cellular development into a more complex cell. So it doesn't actually seem like, you know, the script writers put too much imagination in coming up with the idea of midichlorians. They seem to just borrow it from what they already know about mitochondria.

Speaker 5: 29:34

Well, midichlorians were not even mentioned at all in the original trilogy. They were first brought up in 1999 when the Phantom Menace came out, episode one. So to me it seemed a little strange that something like the Force, a mystical, heterogeneous and immaterial entity, would be dependent upon little creatures inhabiting our cells. And the Force in the first movies is never talked about in that way. So it is definitely a later adaption that was put in there and it helps lead up to subsequent episodes in which characters like Rey and Kylo Ren are strong in the Force, like really right from birth and based on their midichlorian count. And that's not at all how we grew up understanding the Force when we were watching or talking about star wars no, not at all.

Joe: 30:33

And I remember seeing that scene, uh, where, uh, uh, like quite one gin, he takes a blood sample from anakin he got a cut and he's able to do an analysis on his blood and he, you know, sends it, you know, um, telemetrically to obi-wan Kenobi, who's in the ship, and he reads the midichlorian counts. I'm thinking, what is he talking about? And of course, he says that it's off the chart, it's even higher than Master Yoda's, and I just thought, well, that kind of kills what I have always thought about the Force, about the light side of the Force and the dark side of the Force. It's just simply, you know, you have these midichlorians. The force, um, it's just simply, you know you have these midichlorians. So does that mean there are good ones and bad ones, if you're, you know, on the dark side of the force.

Joe: 31:15

So I, I really I didn't like that. I thought the force should kind of be left alone, as being something more mystical. And, uh, you know, I, I think the disney star wars is like the worst thing ever. Um, there's really nothing more I can say about it. I, I know that is my opinion. Others may and do disagree. However, I just think it has drifted so much from the content material of the original trilogy. The original character arcs with the pervasive struggle of good versus evil the dark side of the force in a very straightforward context, as well as the special effects and the cinematics that seemed genuine at the time. Now they seem over the top, almost to being completely absurd, and I think that is now only Star Wars in name, meaning that these new shows, in my opinion, are all just money grabs, and I also realize that there's a generational thing to it, and I may be judging it rather harshly. What do you think, laurie?

Speaker 5: 32:14

Well, I'll harken back to what I said earlier and again. These are just my opinions, just our opinions. But Disney and Lucasfilm, they just need to write good storytelling and then produce it in non-biased movies and series. Now, I enjoyed Rogue One and I can watch it over and over again, like the original trilogy and even the prequels. I also enjoyed the Force Awakens and I had high hopes for the next two, but I ended up being grossly disappointed.

Speaker 5: 32:50

I know that you can make I mean you can't make everybody happy, of course, but someone will always disagree with what you make. However, it is so much worse when you try and push agendas down people's throats. It's not different than a religious fanatic attempting to push their religious beliefs down your throat and say that they are right and you are wrong and that you are wrong. If lost my thought, if you could, you know if you should join them without any evidence whatsoever to prove that they are on the right side of history, as they so often claim. Now, kathleen Kennedy, saying that the force is female angers, a mostly male fan base. You're going to expect that and most of them haven't even thought of the force in that way, like you, joe, like you were saying you know, you haven't. The force is, it's a mystery and we're thinking of it as like a god. You know, we don't know if male or female, it's just there, it's just this power. And the force is just that. It's an unseen spirit world. It's neither male nor female. So, but to push a personal agenda, it seems she now has a huge audience to pander to, and so the Force now becomes female and Leia becomes better than Luke. She bests them, she flies like Mary Poppins through space. Rey, immediately, is a wielder of the Force without any training. Bo-katan is better than Jyn Jardin, et cetera. I mean nothing but pure.

Speaker 5: 34:30

I guess you'd say it's a lot of feminism and male bashing. And I guarantee you, if Disney would have avoided this whole woke thing and focused on a great storyline, like the books and canon, they would have. I think they would have made billions upon billions and Star Wars would have taken off like crazy in movies, series and merchandise sales. Because right now the merchandise sales they just completely suck because of the new toys, whatever that are based on these new characters, and it wouldn't have been through, I mean, it would have been through the roof if they had did these really good, strong characters. I'm a business owner and I believe strongly that they made a horrible business decision when they did that. And we're not. Like I said earlier, I enjoyed Rogue One and that had a female lead. I mean I enjoyed Aliens that had a female lead. Sig mean I enjoyed aliens that had a female lead. You know Sigourney Weaver and you know was Ripley and also. But it's just this agenda that it's pretty obvious and blatant that they are trying to push. That's annoying.

Joe: 35:44

Yeah, this is completely different. I mean the whole content of it. It just seems forced and awkward. I mean the whole content of it. It just seems forced and awkward. It's like Kathleen Kennedy's own feminist manifesto put into visual display on the movie screen. So, daniel, I mean being a millennial what do you think about that in terms of you know what your dad and I are saying, because we're the old guys and we remember Star Wars a lot different than you do when you grew up with it. Our take is going to be considerably different. What do you think about this whole Kathleen Kennedy way of portraying Star Wars?

Speaker 4: 36:20

Yeah, my viewpoint aligns pretty close to yours Not a big fan of new Disney Star Wars in the direction that they have taken new Disney Star Wars in the direction that they have taken. I think what makes it extra volatile is Kathleen Kennedy. She keeps on contradicting herself and will not admit to pushing an agenda, but it's really obvious. I have a quote from her. Actually, she said many times women get a terrible rap in the Star Wars world because toxic men have been led to believe that this franchise is only for one demographic. We are aiming to represent more women gaining leading roles in many of our upcoming features.

Speaker 4: 36:58

So look, it's normal and fine for people in positions of power slash influence like this to have their own opinions on things regarding the creative direction of the franchise, to have their own opinions on things regarding the creative direction of the franchise.

Speaker 4: 37:13

However, the issue I have is that she has zero respect for Star Wars and George Lucas' vision.

Speaker 4: 37:23

She is essentially piggybacking off of the success of Star Wars and what made it successful, and she's shoehorning in her own ideologies and then eventually replacing the ideologies that made people resonate with Star Wars in the first place, and then she's using that as a platform with no consideration of how it will actually affect the fan base. I don't like how she has a clear motive and agenda, but it tends to kind of gaslight the fan base into believing that there's nothing there at all nothing there at all. All of this actually reminds me of a little video where george lucas is sitting with kathleen kennedy in an interview and george keeps on talking about star wars being. You know the story about good and evil and how power corrupts, etc. But while he's talking about it he's glancing over at kathleen kennedy to every chance that he can get when discussing the evil portions of it, which I found hilarious. So it really shows her kind of like, her true colors from like the second that they acquired the star wars ip.

Speaker 5: 38:20

Yeah, and she also said that this doesn't mean that we are deliberately trying to throw away dedicated and loyal fans at all. That's not what it means. She claims that we are not seeing the big picture and that they are trying to paint a positive narrative of women by women. So there is an agenda that it must be pushed at all costs, it seems, and because they are right and everybody else is wrong. So I think this will be a good time to bring up the newest installment in the Star Wars universe on Disney+, which is the Acolyte series.

Speaker 5: 38:56

Now, I watched the first five episodes. I was fine with the first two. I fast forwarded three and four and enjoyed actually enjoyed episode five. Look, I'm fine with diversity. First two, I fast-forwarded three and four and enjoyed actually enjoyed episode five. Look, I'm fine with diversity in the movies. Okay, you can have people from all walks of life in the movies. This is America and that's how it should be.

Speaker 5: 39:16

However, I disagree with giant media corporations like Disney putting forth these agendas and that's exactly what they're doing. And you know it's an agenda when the president of Lucasfilm, like Kathleen Kennedy, you know, wears these T-shirts saying like the force is female. And you know Leslie Hedlund, director of the Acolyte, laughing and joking around in an interview and saying, oh, it's the gayest star Wars. Yet you know, and you know, they are alienating a large part of the fandom when they make, you know, these comments there's, there's no need for this in such a beloved franchise. So why did? Why is Disney being so biased and in such a war with the fan base that they label, you know, you know, as demand babies?

Speaker 4: 40:08

well, I haven't actually seen the accolade, but I know what to expect. Due to disney's recent track record with the ip, um, many, way too often I've gotten burned by the new series that comes out. You know I get you star wars fan. I there's the anticipation, I get ready to watch it and I just end up getting burned because my expectations are too high.

Speaker 4: 40:31

Uh, mandalorian, season three, perfect example. Uh, flop due to sidelining. Sidelining the main character in order to prop up the female counterpart, so bukatan in this case. Um, very bold strategy when the main audience for the Mandalorian are dads, the Dadalorians right. So again, it's just weird business decisions or them prioritizing their ideology over actual storytelling. Or you know what the audience actually wants. The same thing happened with Kenobi Making Obi-Wan look like a doofus to prop up a seven-year-old Leia who is somehow more competent than the Jedi Master. It's just small things like that, you know.

Speaker 4: 41:08

Tying into my original point about you know the importance of believable and relatable characters and additionally, disney has a nasty trend of creating poorly written female characters and then blaming the backlash on so-called man-bab babies being an ist or a phobe, or insert insult here. From what I've heard, this is actually the case with the Acolyte. It has terrible dialogue, unbelievable character motivations, such as that one main character who killed the Jedi and then all of a sudden, like halfway through the series, completely switched her motivation because she found out how sister her sister was, um, alive still, despite her trying to kill her at the very beginning of the series. It's just all over the place, um, but anyway, essentially, uh, it's the complete opposite of the throne room that I the throne room scene that I mentioned at the beginning of the podcast Star Wars has always been about great storytelling and relatable characters, and when those core elements are compromised, it's no wonder the fan base reacts negatively. The focus should be on crafting compelling narratives that everyone can enjoy without alienating a significant portion of the audience.

Joe: 42:26

Yeah, I agree, I couldn't. I too think the franchise, after being bought out by Disney, has taken a very unsuitable turn toward wokeism and feminism, such that it weakens the integrity and the main theme of the actual story itself, the story that we've all grown to love. We see that it is now not the same Star Wars. It is something else altogether. A politically correct or a woke telling of any space opera type sci-fi doesn't fit the genre at all. It doesn't belong there, anymore than cowboys belong in a kung fu movie, or they believe that cowboys should be in a movie about ancient greece. It just doesn't fit. It all seems forced and to me it doesn't seem enjoyable.

Joe: 43:11

The original trilogy was the core story and everything else that we're seeing derives from it, but something that has, uh, spun off completely different and unheard of from anything that I can certainly remember. You know, the Acolyte, the Mandalorian Rogue, one Shoka. These are all brand new stories and they reek of identity politics, which is not in the Lucas original, and it's for that reason, aside from the old episodes, that I'm not all that fond of the franchise and what it has become. I really don't even want to watch any of the new series. Uh, the whole meaning of the story. The entire overall plot has been altered so as to fit a contemporary ideology, instead of just simply tapping into the genuine artistic and literary creativity of the script writers um, I do agree.

Speaker 4: 44:03

Um, there are some things made by disney star wars that I actually do like and now that you mention it, like mandalorian season, one perfect example. I feel like a lot of dads like that one too, you know, because master man badass goes through, you know, gets business done and then he's, you know, dad, the little baby yoda right or a Bad Batch, is basically just a revitalization of the Clone Wars. I loved every bit of that and I was actually going to decide when it ended because I knew that I've got nothing else to really look forward to. But anyway, I find it deeply fascinating that a company would spend $4 billion on an IP with a built-in audience and not respect what drew in that audience in the first place. It's literally the easiest money any company could have made, and they made the one course of action that screws everything up.

Speaker 4: 44:54

I don't think Disney as a corporation is intentionally doing this, since they do really care about the bottom line, and this is evident with their marketing in Saudi Arabia and China, where they minimize or cover up the black characters to bring in more draw for the movie.

Speaker 4: 45:09

What I believe is really happening is that we have activists in positions of power, such as Kathleen Kennedy and Kevin Feige, who have convinced the shareholders in some manner that these messages will only make them money and that legitimate criticisms are the loud minority and illegitimate because they are like a racist or sexist or again insert any insult. Um, I think, I think we will see a massive turn in the tide as disney's bottom line is being heavily affected every quarterly earnings report. Um, it's been stated by Disney that Marvel and Lucasfilm are their worst performing divisions. So if anything is going to be changed first to fix their bottom line, I feel like it will be those two. They really need to go back to the basics and just focus on great storytelling and respect the core elements that made the franchise beloved in the first place.

Speaker 5: 46:02

Yeah, like I said earlier, I mean Kathleen Kennedy does have an agenda, it seems. Even in the Acolyte they're trying to show a vergence in the Force with the two female characters 100 years prior to the time of young Anakin Skywalker. They were conceived by two lesbian witches who somehow manipulated their own version of the Force called the Thread. He even got to mess with the Force, I mean. But now this now makes Anakin's version less of importance, it seems. Look, I get it.

Speaker 5: 46:35

We all know Star Wars is fiction. You can do what you like in storytelling when it comes to fiction, but that's not the point here. The point is the agenda, and it is blatantly in our faces. The Acolyte even shows the Jedi in an evil way. It's much like the police force of today. Just like Ben Kenobi said, for a thousand generations the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic, before the Dark Times, before the Empire. So why not do a series or movie to reinforce that? You know, this is where the agenda comes into play. It's now making the good guys bad and the bad guys good. It reminds me of 2 Timothy 3, verse 1 and verse 3, and this knows also that in the last days. Perilous times shall come without natural affection, trucebreakers, fossil cruisers, etc. And then it says in verse 3, and despisers of those that are good.

Joe: 47:42

You guys both bring up very excellent points in what you're saying, and it also makes me think of what's mentioned in Isaiah 5, 20, with how terrible it will be for people who call good things bad and bad things good, who think darkness is light and light is darkness, and hopefully that will not come to define this age in which we live Hard to say at this point, but hopefully, like you said, daniel, things will take a turn, at least in the production of the Star Wars universe. I mean, there's one thing I know, and I'll say this ever since I've been living in southern Arizona the summer times here have always made me think that I'm living on the planet Tatooine. You know desert environment, the landscape, the blazing sun, the picturesque sunsets there were only two suns, right? I sometimes imagine myself here as Luke Skywalker when I look out towards the horizon at sunset. If it was a double sunset.

Speaker 5: 48:43

Yeah, I don't think one sun is enough here in arizona. Um, I wonder, uh how, how hot it would be here if we had two suns in the sky, and, uh, I honestly don't think uh life could survive no, I don't.

Joe: 48:58

I don't think so. I'm guessing that the earth would have to, uh, be double the distance from the suns. Um, maybe more, uh. Even then, life probably couldn't be sustained here.

Speaker 5: 49:08

So a a tattooing like double sun is definitely fictional yeah, no kidding, anyway, um, I think that would do it for this episode, which I truly enjoyed. Um, and just so you guys know we're all for, for you know, strong women and everybody of all walks in life enjoying this country and getting to share in its riches and its blessings. So, but on our next show we will be moving away from our series on the mythology and sci-fi and instead we will be doing a show about the alien relics with our good friend Aaron Long. If you check out his Ancient Astronaut Theory Facebook page and we've had Aaron on several times now you will see the many posts he did on these possible alien artifacts. So what else are we eventually going to find buried under our feet?

Joe: 50:10

Could be very interesting and insightful. So please join us for that, and a special thanks to our guests for coming on with us. Larry, it was truly a pleasure. You did great, and maybe on a podcast with your old man isn't so bad now, is it?

Speaker 4: 50:28

yeah, not that bad. Well, anyway, thank you, uh, joe and dad, I really enjoyed being on. I I love star wars and this was a.

Speaker 5: 50:35

Uh, it was a great experience, thank you you're welcome and it was uh great having you with us, son, and and yeah you did, you did great and yeah I couldn't think of, I wouldn't be able to forgive myself if I did this podcast, this episode, without you.

Speaker 4: 50:55

I wouldn't have forgiven you either.

Joe: 50:58

Very nice. So anyway, folks, I remember these comments are our opinions and they are just that opinions. So anyway, folks, remember these comments are our opinions and they are just that opinions. Our program is not endorsed by any motion picture corporation, franchise, actors Guild or Writers Guild, nor are we giving any endorsement to them. We're just some guys talking and you are certainly free to agree or disagree with us. Either way, we hope you enjoyed the dialogue and we hope you return with us for our next episode. So until then, stay safe, stay peaceful and stay curious.