Ep. 201 Alan Briggs Returns - A Lighter Way to Live and Lead in a Heavy World

I have seen leaders, ministry workers, and missionaries burnout over and over. There has to be something that works. Alan Briggs says part of it is a training issue. We train for the launch, but not for longevity. In this episode, Alan discusses leadership burnout and how to cultivate healthy, sustainable habits to avoid burnout. Alan shares insights from his experience coaching leaders, emphasizing the importance of prioritizing self-care, quality time with family, boundaries, and living intentionally from one's identity rather than just doing tasks. We discuss practical strategies like limiting caffeine, daily exercise, prioritizing sleep, Sabbath, and deep work without distractions. Alan encourages leaders to look back on victories, within on progress, and ahead to priorities to gain clarity and reduce overwhelm. It’s possible to lead from who we are, develop healthy sustainable habits and avoid burnout. Join us for the anti-burnout movement.

Alan Briggs is a mountain guide for the leadership journey. Alan helps catalytic leaders leverage catalytic moments for systemic change. He does this through Leadership Coaching, Sabbatical Coaching, Working Genius training and consulting at Stay Forth. He also connects leaders in meaningful ways through a hub and ecosystem in Colorado Springs called Gather. He has one incredible wife and four incredible kids and loves finding adventures in the Rockies. His newest book, AntiBurnout, helps leaders find lightness and longevity. 

Alan's Book:
AntiBurnout
Right Side Up Journal

Join Our Patreon for Early Access and More: Patreon

Connect with Joshua: jjohnson@allnations.us

Go to www.shiftingculturepodcast.com to interact and donate. Every donation helps to produce more podcasts for you to enjoy.

Follow on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, or Threads at
www.facebook.com/shiftingculturepodcast
https://www.instagram.com/shiftingculturepodcast/
https://twitter.com/shiftingcultur2
https://www.threads.net/@shiftingculturepodcast
https://www.youtube.com/@shiftingculturepodcast

Consider Giving to the podcast and to the ministry that my wife and I do around the world. Just click on the support the show link below

Transcript

Alan Briggs: 0:00

hoping people clarify. And what's interesting is that's different from certainty. We actually can't find certainty. We don't know where this world's heading, we don't know what this election cycle will create. We don't know what technology will come out next. And so that's a complete waste of our energy to try to find certainty, right. That's us trying to control our little world. But clarity, we can find that God is a God of clarity, and invites us to co design with him to be able to clarify.

Joshua Johnson: 0:41

Hello, and welcome to the shifting culture podcast in which we have conversations about the culture we create, and the impact we can make. We longed to see the body of Christ look like Jesus. I'm your host, Joshua Johnson, our show is powered by you, the listener, if you want to support the work that we do get early access to episodes, Episode guides, and more. Go to patreon.com/shifting culture to become a monthly patron, so that we can continue in this important work. And don't forget to hit the Follow button on your favorite podcast app to be notified when new episodes come out each week, and go leave a rating and review. It's easy, it only takes a second and I helps us find new listeners to the show. Just go to the Show page on the app that you're using right now and hit five stars. It really is that easy. Thank you so much. You know what else would help us out? share this podcast with your friends, your family, your network? Tell them how much you enjoy it and let them know that they should be listening as well. If you're new here, welcome. If you want to dig deeper find us on social media at shifting culture podcasts where I post video clips and quotes and interact with all of you. Previous guests on the show have included Carl Martin, Jamie Winship, and Tod bolsinger. You can go back and listen to those episodes and more. But today's guest is Alan Briggs. It's so good to have Alan back on the podcast. Alan Briggs is a mountain guide for the leadership journey. He helps catalytic leaders leverage catalytic moments for systemic change. He does this through leadership coaching and sabbatical coaching, working genius Training and Consulting at stay fourth, he also connects leaders in meaningful ways through a hub and ecosystem in Colorado Springs. Called gather. He has one incredible wife and four incredible kids and loves finding adventures in the Rockies. His newest book, anti burnout helps leaders find lightness and longevity. You know, I have seen leaders ministry workers missionaries burnout over and over there has to be something that works for the long haul. Alan Briggs as part of it is a training issue we train for the launch but not for longevity. In this episode, Allen discusses leadership burnout, how to cultivate healthy, sustainable habits to avoid burnout. He shares insights from his experience coaching leaders emphasizing the importance of prioritizing self care quality time with family boundaries and living intentionally from one's identity, rather than just doing tasks. So we discuss practical strategies, like simple things like limiting caffeine or daily exercise, prioritizing sleep Sabbath and deep work without distractions. Alan encouraged us leaders to look back on victories within on progress and ahead two priorities to gain clarity and reduce overwhelm. It is possible to lead from who we are develop healthy sustainable habits and avoid burnout. So join us for the anti burnout movement. Here is my conversation with Alan brakes. Alan, welcome back to shifting culture. Really excited to have you on again.

Alan Briggs: 3:45

Yeah, great to be back, man. Thanks for having me.

Joshua Johnson: 3:47

Yeah, it's been two and a half years since you've been on. It's been been a little while. So what's what's new in your world? What have you been learning in the last 30 months? Anything new this popped up as your you've been coaching leaders? What's been happening? Yeah,

Alan Briggs: 4:05

so I've been coaching leaders full time for about five years. So really, man, I think about half of that journey, I've learned so much. One of the things I'm seeing and we'll talk about today is just the burnout, epidemic unfolding, which is, I think, incredibly discouraging on one side of things, and then incredibly encouraging to see leaders resisting and fighting against that and putting healthy rhythms in their lives and prioritizing things. And so that's what I get to see as a coach is, frankly, I think some of the best leaders out there who are saying, I'm going to do it differently. And I'm going to protect the things that deeply matter to me. So there's a lot right there. I work with businesses and ministries, and I'm seeing the same kind of things out there in different fields. And so I've been very, very focused on that, in a good sense of seeing healthy leaders that actually cascade down and create healthy cultures around them, which of course is in incredibly encouraging. I've worked on a lot with the working genius assessment. And that's something that I've just watching, transform a lot of teams as they apply it. And lastly, I'm just seeing as we're recording this in summer, just watching that need for replenishment and joy and play, and just a little bit of a release from both the screens and the decision fatigue that leaders have during the school year, and I think just a huge opportunity this summer. So those are a couple things. I

Joshua Johnson: 5:30

think that's good. I want to talk about what does it look like to be a healthy leader from the very beginning. And so if you're starting something new, I know, you know, as I'm training and coaching missionaries around the world, one of the things that they're they get really excited about is launching into something they're, you know, all in, going 100% going hard. And then burnout happens, especially in that world. We see, man, if people get to five years, like they're doing something really good. And because burnout happens quick, what are some some essentials that you've seen healthy leaders start to implement from the very beginning, that eliminates some of those burnout later on in their work in their ministry.

Alan Briggs: 6:16

Let me go back, and then I'll you know, kind of catch up to what I see as some of those essentials, I was actually working with church planters in a residency process. And while and what I find is it was actually very similar to missionaries, who were finding a new field that moved their families across the country, I live here in Colorado, and it was kind of like, the Holy Grail, like, we're gonna go to Colorado and plant a church. And so then why does come with money, they might have come with one or two people on a team, but they ended up feeling very lonely and very isolated. And so the opposite of that is we tried to build in some community and some connectedness and add another seed to understand the context of where they were coming instead of just dive completely in. And so in connecting them with other folks, they actually kind of found a network, this comrade of friends. And so that's how we started to push against that. Secondly, overwhelmed with content is what I find. Most people think I need to learn more, I need to learn more, again, instead of the what we actually need to think about who who do we need around us to be able to go the distance. And what I've realized is that we were training people for the launch, but not for longevity. And so that's really when this book, anti burnout was began to be birthed in me was I had this epiphany that man, everybody that's training across the board, whether it's for missionaries, or church planners, is training to launch something. But we're not talking about three years from now, how's your family, and five years from now? What are the habits and rhythms that you're going to need to protect in your life. And so it wasn't really their fault. As they launched, we had a huge gap in the training process. And so integrity for me, I was like, we can't keep doing it the same way. And so it was a huge shifting moment for me. And some of the essentials that we think about is frankly, just a mindset shift from reactive here, the needs of the opportunities to proactive. And Stephen Covey talks about that in seven habits. Intentionally, what is the life that I'm going to live and James K. Smith describes it as the good life, what is the good life for you and for your family. And so many times we think I'll do anything at all cost to share the gospel here. And unfortunately, those all costs, things are gonna hurt us, our family, even our passion level for what we're doing, we begin to resent the people that were actually called to serve, whether they're our team around us or the people that were called to reach. And, and so we began to shift, moving from that reactive to that proactive. And so first of all, it's that mindset shift the end of the book, I talk about some essentials, and there are some things we don't think about. And so you know, Joshua, one of the things that I think about was my body for years, I was kind of like a brain on a stick, where, you know, I didn't realize that I was under serving, my body wasn't getting enough sleep, that exercise actually rejuvenates the mind. In so many ways. Sabbath is just like this huge gift from God that most of us leave unwrapped. And so I began to get serious about Sabbath because it's like, Man, I actually can't go the distance without it, especially with kids and the challenges of family life. And even like adrenaline and caffeine. I was living off of adrenaline and caffeine. And I just thought that that was normal was like sick. If you need six cups of coffee to get through the day. You've got a dependency, aka an addiction. And I was just firing on all cylinders, which feels good, it feels right. What I realize is that's firing up my adrenaline all the time. And so, to move from the You know, I could do the next thing, what's going on on my calendar, again, reactive presence brings that adrenaline versus that grounded nature actually brings this calming presence to other people. So that's been a shift that I've been working on and actually write about quite a bit in the book. Yeah,

Joshua Johnson: 10:18

that's a big shift of of coffee. Now, what are you drinking all day, you

Alan Briggs: 10:22

know, I want to down to one cup of coffee a day, which is cool, because I don't, I don't have to have coffee, I get on it. And then there's some nootropics that, you know, cut a brain stimulant, things like that. Man, I've actually focused in on my diet quite a bit as well. I'm never like a super unhealthy eater. But the older we get, like turns out, we actually have to maintain our diet a little bit more. I've eaten the energy that that's brought me have tons of water throughout the day. And in Colorado, it's very high and dry here. And things like that, I realized, man, I was probably dehydrated, I was living on too little. And I've just had to get serious about about my sleep and about my, my rest. And just that even that mental brain space away from screens, to be able to just pick up a book that I enjoy is huge. For me getting outside, a lot of those little habits are actually compounding interest. And the other side is well, it 30 extra minutes, scrolling throughout the day, and how that depletes me and forces 30 extra minutes that my wife and I go on a walk. And I try to walk a mile a day. And if I can do that with, you know, my kid or a friend or my wife even better to develop some community. Yeah,

Joshua Johnson: 11:35

that's amazing. All of this is very practical, right? It is something where God has created us to have this body that works in a certain way, that if we put good things in our body, good things will come out of our body. If we don't do these bad things for us, then hey, we're gonna feel better. This is shockingly simple. That but we do like to, it's very easy to do the bad things for us, wet in our work in our life and our play in our health. It's very easy to sit back and be apathetic to and what you'd said was be reactive to what is going on. So how do you shift into a pro active space to be intentional, to do the little things well, so that compounding interest can come. And then you have this massive effect

Alan Briggs: 12:32

starts with clarifying priorities, because those are the things that we're going to protect. And what's cool is when you name your priorities, you actually get to play offense and defense, here are the things that I'm going to aggressively push into one of my priorities this summer for, for example, when we get really practical here is to get outside and get on the water. And so whether that's you know, I have a inflatable kayak, and so I'm going to hit 12 miles on a river later on today with with a fret, then I'll reengage with the family. So that's not like an all day kind of thing. And that's big for me it I just know that if I put myself in the right environment. For some people, it's a golf course, or for some people, it's sitting outside and creation for other people. It's connected environments, like coffee shops, so it's different for all of us. But I'm like that's a priority for the summer. Of course, that's not a priority long term. I can't do that in the winter. And, and so that would be the example of a priority. But what's also priorities is really quality time with my family. And so I was on vacation last week and sitting around the pool and just relaxing no work, no decisions really needed to be made all weekend as well, kind of that life and buoyancy come back up. So those priorities, again, exercise, things like that, that we kind of just push out of the way. And then over here, the Defense says, Man, if if I'm protecting those things, I actually don't have time to mess around on my phone, I don't have time, or space or energy for scrolling. And because of that it allows me to play offense and defense. At the same time. And you said the word practical, I think we've we've thought things that are practical are not spiritual, but the best of my coaching work, whether I'm working with a ministry leader or a CEO, it's where the spiritual meets the practical, which I think is the stuff of life. I think that's all throughout Scripture. It is, you know, we want to steward our lives. But how do I steward my Tuesday afternoon? And how do I steward by Monday morning? And how do I steward my Saturday evening, and those were the little things that I had these energy leaks that ultimately the bucket is emptying for leaders, you know, leaders, it's not necessarily some egregious sin going on in life or some massive thing. It's usually just these teeny little energy leaks and boundaries around people. It's huge whether it's online, texting, art, seven social media outlets that people can get to us through or whatever, saying that was all like literal We'd put my phone away, and turn it off and just go like I don't need, this guy right now would be fully present in there. So I have found, it's a whole lot of the little things. Once we know our priorities have clarified those to go, that doesn't serve me, well, if my main goal today is to replenish and just connect with my family, what has to be true for that to happen? Unfortunately, there's a whole lot of good stuff that there's just not space for. And so probably the last thing, it's hardest I see for leaders, especially deeply spiritual leaders, mission driven Kingdom leaders, is that we got to say no to most things, there's a lot of good, there's very few best. And so that's hard. Everything needs to be guilty until proven innocent, at some level of leadership and influence because those opportunities, just keep gotta keep coming to you.

Joshua Johnson: 15:49

So how do you learn how to say no, when you are in a space of, I think for for ministry leaders, they're like, you have to be for people, you have to be empathetic, you have to be with people all the time. How do you learn how to say no, when that is coming at you constantly, there's

Alan Briggs: 16:12

two words that are close, but are very, very different availability and accessibility. So I believe that we need to be less available, but still remain accessible. And here's what I mean, by that. Accessible ears, we need to not be on an ivory tower, unreachable, you know, in some green room somewhere where people just can't get to us. And most leaders actually don't have an issue there that I expect ministry leaders, we swing the pendulum so far to the other side, that we think faithfulness equals us being available all the time. And I like to use the example always right here in the moment, like Joshua, how would you feel if I just picked up a phone call right now like that, Jesus honors you and all of your listeners, like, not cool, but you're gonna help me out, you should cut me off. Sorry. So what I say is, I'm a coach. So literally being present in the moment, just like with my kids, just like on a date with my wife being present in the moment is the greatest gift that I can give, as I listen to them attentive. So I say I'm unavailable to the to the world right now. But I'm accessible. If you email me, I'll get back with you in a couple of days, but I'm not gonna get back with you, you know, within the next 10 minutes. Within the next hour, even while I'm walking to the bathroom, you know, email a, I'll get back with you. And we've seen that leader that's so available, that they're actually not emotionally and relationally accessible. Because they're, they're so present with everybody that they're not present with anybody if that makes sense. And so we have a serious distraction problem, we have too many inputs going on. And so that's just something that I don't think we can focus on that too much. I mean, it's a constant battle. And I'll walk out of airplane mode and you don't have 25 texts. And I'll have to figure out, do all those require attention? Before I go hit the river with a good friend of mine? Does that make sense to just say, hey, that's, that's tomorrow. It's not my problem right now that all those folks texted me, man, this is tough. And the only way I think we can do is to pre decide, we have to pre make our decision. So we don't get decision fatigue, where we're playing triage and our emails and our phones. And the harder let's say, a missionary is in context. And in community, as proximity goes up boundaries also need to go up, the greater the proximity, the greater the boundaries needed. And so if you're a lot of my clients are across the country on Zoom, that's not real hard to put up those boundaries. If you're living in a neighborhood in context where you're reachable lot, the chances are, you're going to need to Sabbath away from folks, you're going to need to get away to be able to do deep work and get things done. And deep work is getting more rare and more valuable to leaders today. So I'd say that's probably the last thing we need to guard is to make sure we have time, whether that's deep work hearing from God, whether that's deep work, creating content. For me, a lot of my deep work is with groups of leaders or individuals coaching them. So like writing a book, for example, it's like, this is a product of who knows how many hours I should have kept track, let's say two to 300 hours of deep work, that I had to say no to the rest of the world, go on airplane mode or Do Not Disturb so that I could create something that I hope nurtures people for a decade or more.

Joshua Johnson: 19:35

At talking about your book, one of the things I really love about your book is that you actually don't say, here, I'm gonna give you a little snippet. Come give me money and I will give you the rest of it. You actually you actually provide it in the book.

Alan Briggs: 19:50

Like I'm dumping wealth, why don't you like

Joshua Johnson: 19:53

and it's fantastic. It's really good. I was like, Yeah, this is great. One of the things you know the beginning you He actually go through this innovation triangle, I think is, is helpful. It was helpful for me to say, what are we? What are the three areas that we need to cultivate? We need to activate and we need to analyze? What are those three areas for us? And how do we have that balance? So that we have health long term? Yeah,

Alan Briggs: 20:23

I believe that there are three directions even more than areas, three directions that we need to be pretty constantly attentive to every single week. And it's looking backward. And when we look in the rearview mirror, many times that tells a story, I mean, almost always, it tells the story of some of the victories and the losses and the things that we need to grieve. And that shapes the future. Now, we're not stuck there. But I find that most leaders are, you know, like it says, innovating, pushing forward looking at the future. Frankly, too many times we're even idolatry, we have an idolatry of the future. And we haven't looked back and said, man, let me celebrate. And so as I look back at the last semester, I showed up really well for my family. And that's something that I celebrated the same man, as a dad celebrated really well, my wife showed up really, really well, professionally, she leads the foster care agency. So we're able to look back and celebrate, not that we did everything personally, we can learn from that. But then we could go, that was a great season. This one's very, very different. And then it's looking with it. And so this inward, look to go, how am I actually doing it? Do I have a lot that I need to grieve? Do I have losses am I not doing so well in this one area, and we don't do much of that either. And so that inward cultivation and growth, and actually keep track of the the amount of hours I'm actively growing each week, I make sure want to make sure I don't get stale. And we're not very good at that kind of self awareness, self reflection, kind of pieces. Again, we're heading toward the future, then and only then we've looked back looked with it, then we can head in this third direction forward, the future. And I believe that we all had toward one area or the other. And so it's okay. And neither is worse or better than the other. But we need to compensate for our weaknesses there and go, Man, I'm not very good at looking back at the past so that it shapes and forms where am I, if I look back at the past, and my family has been running 100 miles an hour at the school, what that means is I need to rest, we need to open evenings. And we need lots of space family wants lots of family dinners gonna run at heart that informs that then I'm going to make plans to be able to head toward that.

Joshua Johnson: 22:45

I think that's really helpful. But a lot of times because we are in one direction more than the other to constantly, like that's my preference. So my preference is, is the innovation go activate? What's the future, I'm looking to the future all the time. I'm really struggling, like trying hard to be present, right? This pressing sneeze. And it's really, really difficult for me to look backwards, like that's in the past that's done. So what's the importance of people around you to to help you discover that, oh, you need to focus on this area as well. And so where does that a coach or a therapist or a spiritual director or somebody else come into play for us to be able to to work on those things? Yeah,

Alan Briggs: 23:36

it's, it's fascinating because as I've studied this, I have a huge respect for spiritual directors and huge respect for therapists, but but I'm not one. And so I'll often refer out. But I believe that as we look back, we analyze backward. Therapists are amazing at this. They help us look back as far as our childhood in our family of origin, even generations back and say, What messages did you pick up what things happened to you, and you know, translated into your heart and soul and the way that you live because of that, and so therapists thrive as we analyze backwards. I believe that good spiritual directors thrive in that cultivating inward, the inward life, right, the interior life of our heart, and our soul, and our beliefs and our prayers and our dreams. They're phenomenal at that. Where I thrive is actually here we are in this moment. And as a leadership coach, I want to go there. And so how do I get from here to there? And so I believe that different people help us in different ways. We also need friends, I talked about the book, leaders need friends, period, people who don't need anything from you, it's not transactional. There are plenty of people that need or want things from us. And so we need to kind of weigh that with people. And I believe that a good friend keeps us present in the moment that I'd sit on a friend's porch and go, Man, I'm just thinking about being locked into a conversation that I was with a friend till about 10 o'clock last night, time just flew. And even like kind of watching the sunset, and just kept some backup on life. And we're so present in the moment. And so I would just say to that fight of resources that you need, you can't do this alone. And so find a great therapist to help you analyze backward find an amazing spiritual director, or even just kind of a deep mentor in your life, to help you cultivate your inward life and find a coach to help you activate for it in a wise way so that you don't burn out in the meantime.

Joshua Johnson: 25:34

So if we're trying to activate forward, so if you're, you're somebody that I cultivate, and work really well, like, I'm doing the deep work, but my my work, whatever it is, and where I'm leading, we're stuck somewhere like, it feels like there's a plug, like I need to unplug. You get this water draining, and all the way down. How do we get unstuck to move forward? What what is the some principles, the practices that help us actually take the plug out?

Alan Briggs: 26:06

Yeah, there's, there's this magic word, clarity, clarity. Another way to put this is awareness. So as we sit and sometimes frankly, we just need to slow down enough to be able to journal out the answers to questions. That's why I love tools. By the way, it's because it forces us to look at our lives deeply and go, what's actually going on, versus just a planning or a goal session. We actually can can get present in that moment. And what I say is when clarity goes up, overwhelm goes down. If you're feeling stuck, or overwhelmed or exhausted timeout, that's a signal that you need clarity, and exhaustion. Obviously, you need replenishment and that as well. But if I'm overwhelmed, everything feels like too much. I actually sat with a leader yesterday, and she was trying to make a major life decision. And it was like spaghetti in her mind, I could just see it. And what we did was just to clarify, ask some questions. What about this area? What feels most important here. And what happened was her emotions went down, her confidence level went up, that's what's happening is we clarified, the clarity went up. And naturally, the overwhelm just went down, she's able to make a rational decision, versus feel like we have to do this today, we clarify timelines, and what and when and why, instead of being overwhelmed by all that stuff, I put on a whiteboard, she actually felt, now I can make good decisions. Now I can even pray in the right direction, talk to my friends, talk to mentors, and see what decisions I can make. So that's essentially what I do all week long as a leadership coach is helping people clarify. And what's interesting is, that's different from certainty. We actually can't find certainty. We don't know where this world is heading. We don't know what this election cycle will create. We don't know what technology will come out next. And so that's a complete waste of our energy, to try to find certainty, right, that's us trying to control our little world. But clarity, we can find that God is a God of clarity, and invites us to co design with him to be able to clarify, sometimes we can't clarify that much Joshua, but we can go, okay, I can clarify. I've had 17 hours of coaching this week, or whatever it is. And I need to completely be off and rest tomorrow. That allows me that awareness draws me to action. But once I have clarity, then I can have courage and take those steps. Once I have awareness, then it can create the right next actions. The problem is if you take action and look toward the future, without clarifying, then we are actually going to lead ourselves toward more overwhelm and more burnout. We are trying to get ourselves out of a hole by doing more. And that to me sounds like a pretty dang good recipe for burnout.

Joshua Johnson: 28:54

Yeah, it does. And we don't want burnout. One of the things that you said one of the habits did say to live with the whelmed like learn to live with Well, well, yeah, and what so what does that look like? If you don't if you want clarity, if you don't want to be overwhelmed? What is living with a webcam look like? And what does that mean?

Alan Briggs: 29:13

Add your capacity in your sweet spot. What would it look like for you to live at your capacity, and in your sweet spot? This is where it's things like work and genius assessment comes in, where if I understand here, the areas that are green in my life, that for whatever reason, I'm amazing at and then there's like 27 areas for whatever reason I'm both terrible at and they drain me, that's just a bad equation. And instead of feeling like I have to do those areas as some kind of service or you know, some kind of martyrdom up here, it's going man here a few things I really need to protect these in my sweet spot at my capacity. And here's the challenge my capacity is different from yours. And here's also the challenge my capacity in one area, like content, for example, or coaching. All week long I could do this. And this is actually where most of my week is spent connecting people with ideas, I can do a bunch of that you give me like two, two hours of spreadsheets, and man, I'm exhausted. Like, just, that is the worst. But for somebody else, that's their greatest contribution. They're actually having fun, while in a spreadsheet, changing the world through analytics. So you got to know your sweet spot, and your capacity. And when those two things come together, it's beautiful. And basically, we're pulling tension between overwhelmed way too much in generally in the wrong areas, and then underwhelmed where I just feel like I have more in the tank, like, I know that I can be doing more, and I'm soaking it in and go now, I'm not going to do that generally out of fear. And so how do we live somewhere in insecurity usually draws us to overwhelm, I need to do more, so that it can feel like a big deal. And underwhelm over here is going now I don't want to risk because if I fail, then maybe unless that and we have to pull tension right in the middle and say, I just want to live weld, I want to live in my sweet spot at my capacity.

Joshua Johnson: 31:10

If you're trying to if you're coaching, small business leader, someone that is startup or somebody who's leading a small church, a lot of times we don't have the staff to do the things that drain us. And we can live in our sweet spot. What would you what would you say to them, when there are things that need to be done? Those things are gonna be draining us. But we just have to do it for this organization to move forward?

Alan Briggs: 31:44

First of all, I would question the assumption that we all have when we think well, I just I just have to do it. Let's say something like email, you dream of a day when you could have an administrator, even 10 hours a week, helping you with your email, your scheduling or things like that. And to say, Well, based on the resources that we don't have right now, I may have to do that. But maybe you'll only have to answer your emails Monday, Wednesday, and Thursday. And so you then create this day on Tuesday where you can go deep work and just say, Who says you have to answer your email, all four or five work days during your week. That's just something that we've thought you just have to do, because you have to do it. You could put an email responder on you can I mean, there's all kinds of things. And you can supplement with technology. My example is Calendly is my scheduling software. And it's, I don't know, 12 bucks a month or something. And, to me, the excuse is Oh, I could never get help with my calendar. The reality is I've had an assistant, and his name is Calendly for many, many years, and I couldn't afford 12 bucks a month because to me, that's a quality of life thing. And so Calendly for me helped manage a schedule, because I'm awful at it. Frankly, it drains me no more six emails to come up with one appointment. Though worst, right? I'm tired when I just get to the appointment after that. So what I realized is that the barrier was internal, I was afraid that people would think that I was a diva, because I had, you know, hey, schedule on my link, we found was the opposite goodbye, thanks for making it so easy. They don't want to battle with you. So actually, most of the limitations are in here. And I've I've led primarily in small organizations my whole life. And what we find is that limitation breeds innovation. Imitation breeds innovation, and the lie that someday when we have enough resources, I'll get it under control. It's similar to like, once I have enough money, then I'll be generous. There'll be generous now in the ways that you can. And then as you have more, you'll be able to develop that. So mostly just speaking for myself, Joshua, that's a lot. That although I can't, and we have to get creative, we have to work with volunteers to borrow, you know, two hours here and four hours here. And frankly, here's the thing people just don't want to hear, we just sometimes need to do less. Instead of doing those seven things, to be able to serve your community, maybe you need to be able to do to as an entrepreneur, you're offering six different products, you probably need to offer three and cut those in half at the amazing at those three. And now those are the kinds of things I work on as a coach, you can clarify what's your greatest contribution? What's the thing that's training you and then you're overwhelmed, goes down? And I have to make a hard decision? Because I have to choose the best instead of just a good.

Joshua Johnson: 34:33

What are some questions that bad coaches uses? And then what is an example of like a good question so that we could get that clarity up?

Alan Briggs: 34:43

How are you doing today, Joshua? Thank you. What area are we talking about? of my life? Yes or no questions? Where you know, did you do the assignment that I asked you to do? Two weeks ago that you committed to and so a lot a yes or no questions are not curious. They're sometimes just holding people accountable in a way that they may feel shame or guilt. Some great questions are what little things can you celebrate from the last few weeks? And if you stay professional say, Well, talk to me about your family, how have you showed up well, for your family, because if I'm in relationship with you, I'm not saying, hey, if you've been a good dad, for the last two weeks have saved me. And I know there's ways you're showing up off your family, what are those leaders struggle to celebrate? And then on the other side, I just know, there are some highs and some lows. So man, what's hard right now? Instead of hey, how can I pray for you? I like to say what's at the edge of your mind or heart right now? And before I come into a session, I just like to know, where are they also like to use a lot of one detent, one to 10? How hard is the last few weeks bit? And then just to let people go and talk about it. A couple of questions I use regularly is what's your energy level at one to 10? Right? Because if you're at a two and you haven't been sleeping, the last three nights, I'm gonna go, Hey, is it still helpful that we meet? Or do you think the government took a nap? But if you're at a 10, go, Oh, my goodness, what's going on behind this in your life? That you would be at a 10 right now? And frankly, how do I get some of that energy? That's amazing. And your encouragement level, one to 10? How encouraged are you right now. And I just let it sit, frankly, silence is one of the best tools that we have. And we're so uncomfortable with it. But just to let people sit and go, How encourage them? That's a hard question of what and that's going to tell a lot at the end of coaching sessions that just say what was most valuable about our time to, I don't say was this valuable? I can see it in their eyes, they're taking notes, they're engaged, I know that something was valuable, and it surprises. And then what's the next step that you could do in the next few weeks? I'll say, what are your 16 things you're going to do? What's one next step? That would change something in your life right now? And so those are some examples of questions. I'm truly curious. I don't get to define their finish lines for them. But once they do, I get to kind of come alongside. And so those are examples, empowerment questions versus dependency questions.

Joshua Johnson: 37:20

So after people are done with a good coaching session, and not a bad coaching session, and then they they go, they have their one next step. And they have some priorities. What does it look like for, for a healthy leader to organize their day, their week, their month, their year? Like how do we how do they start to, to look at what is for now? Where am I headed? Where am I going? And so that is we're not reactive, but we're proactive and in what we're doing. Yeah,

Alan Briggs: 37:52

I've tried really hard not to be prescriptive in this. But I don't know any other way. Other than before your start your week, look back, look within, look ahead. I don't know any other way. Because we're moving so fast in our culture. And we're at 1.7 speed as leaders, that I look back and actually have a tool. I'm not just like trying to promote all of our materials, but I created a coaching process. And then I realized we actually need tools to be able to uphold this process. And so we have a right side up journal, it's called the right side of journal. And it literally, it has three pages in it. And on on Sunday afternoon or Sunday evening, most people get the Sunday scaries. Well, that's because you know that you have a process last week, you don't even know how you're doing and you're planning next week, and you're terrified. I don't get to Sunday scaries anymore, I get excited now, because I have a chance to look back and I named victories, things that were most valuable, some beautiful moments, in that some kind of untied things that I left from last week that I can pick up on. And I named that process and kind of let my mind and heart catch up a little bit. And then I moved to how am I doing right now. And then in the last 15 or so minutes, I start to plan out the week. And there's always things I've kind of over planned or didn't see, needed to change that. And my wife and I do that last piece together. So it sounds like a lot, but that's about an hour. I just don't know how without proactively investing that time. And so within the book, I have these QR code links as well. And there's something called a weekly planning grid. And I have a weekly planning grid for my life that repeats. And that has very similar things very similar days, a weekly rhythm is key, because the inputs that we're putting in proactively are going to create the outputs. And I know what the outputs are that I want to see more of, and therefore I know what inputs that I need and so I pre make decisions basically. And a wise leaders pre make decisions and not to say there's no room for spontaneity, you can have a whole spontaneous day on Tuesday with nothing planned, and see what happens. But if you live every day, all day, that way, I'm telling you, the anxiety is going to rise. And you're going to think I need to be doing all the things. And actually, these limits and boundaries create freedom in our life, not the opposite boundaries, create freedom when we live into it. So that's my process. That's the process and the right set of journal. And again, the tool is called the weekly planning grid. And it's here in this anti burnout link. There's the QR codes that link over to. So

Joshua Johnson: 40:34

if we have this planning grid, and we're like, Okay, this feels easy, manageable, I could do it, and then crises hit. There are things that like, Hey, I didn't know that this was happening. Change happens, we have to adapt, and shifts. How do we move into that, that adaptation that is so necessary, we move forward without going? And just like going crazy in our mind, and not knowing what to do?

Alan Briggs: 41:03

Yeah, I think you trade something for something else in that moment. And I've got a great example I had somebody who gives you gives gives you one of those, hey, can we talk I really need you out. There crisis is not my emergency. And that seems really cold to say, but I'm not a heart surgeon like people don't die on the table of that. I'm not in covenant relationship with them, either. But this is somebody I would love to help out. And I was like, oh, man, okay, I can schedule in about four days. But here's some questions to begin thinking about as we come in. Then somebody cancelled a coaching session, and I got an hour and a half back. And so then I texted them, Hey, do you want to meet I had some time for you. So instead of the first time this person wanted to meet me going, Yes, I can meet you know, this time. And I scheduled it right, I was accessible. But I said, I'm really not available for a few days. And you feel bad, because in that amount of time, I have some time and space with my family. It's not like I have, you know, 12 straight hours of meeting scheduled, but I met my capacity right there. So I would just say the ability to live with limits allows us to be able to adapt, if we have no limits, we're always spinning, we have too much going on, we actually can't adapt because we're locked there. And again, our mind tries to tell us the opposite of laundry and prioritize life gives us the ability to be generous to other people, versus to be a slave to our schedule. Like I can't give any time. In fact, when we're too busy, we begin to resent people that ask things for us, instead of I would love to serve this person, some time opened up. And I was able to be generous and invest 90 minutes in this leader that was struggling and needed that time. And we saw cool result there for them. And for me, if you are

Joshua Johnson: 42:52

started and coached people individually, that you also have some some group coaching. They do and there's some some leadership groups. What what is the benefit for being in a group of leaders coaching? Or then being coached individually? What's the difference? What are the benefits?

Alan Briggs: 43:13

Life is trade offs. So there's a trade off between one on one coaching and group coaching, or a cohort model. One on One is amazing, because we can work just on you. And we can take whatever issue you're facing and dissect it, we can look at you and your unique design. And frankly, we don't have to create a program out of here's where we're heading. It's based on some questions, we've got 90 minutes at a time to fully focus on you. And your challenge to look back look within look what I had all these things we've talked about. But that's incredibly expensive. And it's energy at time. Because you need somebody else's complete focus on that. You also the weakness there is that you don't have anybody else other than me, in that case, listening to you and holding you accountable to that. group coaching. I sat with a team yesterday, did some group exercises, group coaching, you have accountability? When you ask a question or say a statement, everybody else heard? Maybe you're struggling and people can support you after that. Maybe you're the top of the world and people go, Yeah, well, let's dream and plan that together. And I love getting leaders together from different fields across the country in a cohort, who feel each other's pain, they understand what it's like to sort of be needed at that level as a leader that have limited capacity. And frankly, to have some world class gifts that they're trying to steward. There's something amazing about that. And community were like, Ah, I'm not alone. And I'm actually launching an anti burnout cohort for leaders in any field who want to grow, get healthy and work through the content of this book in the fall. And it's it's going to be incredible. It always is. And we lead these cohorts because you have all these people from across the country and you're like I didn't know him two weeks ago, right? I didn't know her three weeks ago and now I I feel like she really gets me more than some people even on my team. So those are the trade offs between a one on one coaching work and group Tober.

Joshua Johnson: 45:08

Yeah, I think that's, I think that's helpful to think through what we can do, what is going to be beneficial? Are we in a team that we need? Do we need to get that input from other leaders as well to have camaraderie? What is the role of then proximity as you've been coaching? Online, a lot you've also been doing a lot of things include like, in person, and proximity, what's the role of proximity for somebody, especially in this anti burnout, place of being with people and being present?

Alan Briggs: 45:42

Yeah, again, trade offs. Just to use the kind of technology example the reach we have a technology is incredible today. And the other day, I was reflecting, I mean, it's an amazing day, I coach leaders in seven different states, and pick my daughter up from school at three o'clock. It's mind blowing to think about that. How long would it take me to fly to seven different states and get time with people. So just I mean, 30 years ago, 20 years ago, even 10 years ago, the assumption is, if you want to train people across the country to have impact, then you're gonna have to get on planes a lot. And I'd be an unavailable Father, if that were the case. And so I get to do both in that, the weakness of that, of course, is there's just something about being a person, I mean, if we were eating some Kansas City Barbecue together, and having a conversation, that's completely different, you know, and that'd be amazing. And maybe that'll happen someday. And so I like to bring people into my context, I live in Colorado, so people like to visit here, bring them into context, and ask them to check out on their phones, and maybe they call their spouse, once a day, or their kids once a day, let's completely check out from technology and to dial in, and to be able to get solitude to be able to get time and coaching questions. And there's a huge advantage to that. So there's just something about relationships and being in proximity there. And there are certain models where you could travel, you know, four times in a year to get, you know, a soul care retreat, or get coaching or mastermind or intensive. So again, life is trade offs. And there's something amazing about zoom, and the reach there, and FaceTime, or whatever you use, there's something amazing about being in context, frankly, I like both, I like to start the experience in person, and then continue to follow up for those reps. Because I like to see a leader in the middle of the week when they're in the whirlwind. They stay focused, stay focused, because man, we get sucked out of it quickly. So again, trade offs advantages to both. So

Joshua Johnson: 47:41

a lot of times when we're looking at saying, Okay, I want to build a healthy leadership model, so I'm not going to burn out later that it's, I'm actually going to then produce other healthy leaders down the line. Like we can multiply this, we could scale this whatever model that you're into. But sometimes we're like, I don't know how to practice it. I don't know what to do. Sometimes we can borrow practices from other people. What are some examples of practices and different areas of our life that we can start to, to borrow to put on to say, maybe that works for me, maybe it doesn't?

Alan Briggs: 48:18

Yeah, like, the first thing to realize when Cordero says, we teach what we know, but we reproduce who we are. I think about that we teach what we know, we've reproduce who we are. So if we just want to teach, then learn a lot, and nothing against teaching. But if we truly want to create culture, that's reproduction. My kids are watching my every move, I can tell them what to do and not do. But the reality is, they're going to watch me, and that's going to shape their view of life and of God, and of work and of rest and how we treat people in our community, you could tell people to, you know, treat, treat everybody nicely. And then if I'm acting like a jerk, they get it, they understand the whole story there. So first of all, leader, the greatest thing that we can do, if we want to cascade health down to others is get healthier cells. That's true within a marriage. That's true within a family dynamic. That's true within a team or an organization. Everybody is watching the person at the top. Everybody is watching the person in the back of the room, you're on your phone during that meeting, that it says this is a very important if you're fully engaged, and you're curious. water level rises. So first of all, realize the modeling piece is incredibly important. What I have done actually in the book is given you some practices to trial, and I call them I call habits $10 investments with$10,000 returns. And just to go and make maybe this is what works for you. And so I was going to call the chapter walking a mile a day and other stuff that you think will make a difference like wanting minutes a day of Walking is a massive game for your health of your mind and your body, probably your emotions as well at the same time. And so I've got some practices in here. So some recovery practices we actually start with. And I've borrowed those from other leaders, I've shared them from my own life. And that's actually one of my favorite parts of the book. And so like a couple recovery practices, I'll just read these beyond practicing a weekly Sabbath. It's just sleeping in once or twice a week. neglect your emails, on the weekends, dedicated vacations is no workshops. I mean, I'm just reading from here, physical health practices, mental health practices, emotional health practice occasional health practices. The reality is like, if you could read this book, or learn from a friend to pick up like three to five new things not 15 is that this summer you try on and go, Man, instead of I know a guy that instead of, you know, driving his vehicle to work, I think Tuesdays and Thursdays he bikes, that changes his life, and gives him time outside to decompress. And he'd love to commit to that forever. But that's just him two days a week. What is that for you, and you want to change your diet? Well pre make a smoothie before bed every single night. And that will begin to shift your whole day when your breakfast changes. So I would just say is about compounding interest, and is about those returns start really, really small. And it's like, man, you want to be more grounded. Well, don't look at your phone until 9am and think deeply and jirtle and pray first thing I promise you that's gonna change your whole day.

Joshua Johnson: 51:36

One of the things that I've seen the most transformative coaches help people lead from their identity lead from who they truly are. Now, rather than just give them a bunch of things to do, but lead from who they are, which you just said, you know, you're going to reproduce who you are. What's the importance of identity and finding out who we are, so that we can lead from that place

Alan Briggs: 52:06

who you are matters more than what you do like just period we have to start there. There's a comfortability inside of a leader that is mature comfortability inside of that to go like, this is just who I am. Again, I love outdoor adventure. There's something for me about getting on the water and that to this reproducing who we are thing. I can tell my team guys don't overwork or get out of the office at noon on Friday. Or I could just not answer their email on Friday, and then be completely present and aware where I'm at. And then they go wait, because Alan did that. And he leads our team, I actually have the permission to do that as well. And so I think we've overvalued telling people what to do. And we've undervalued the fact that when I live out who I am, it gives other people permission and freedom to do that. And what's cool is that they don't go, Yeah, I need to go and kayak 12 miles on a river. on Friday afternoons, they go. And maybe I should just head home early and sit on the back porch with my family. Great, go do that. Thursday, fun night with my kids. When I tell people about that. Like that's, that's easy, and that's cheap. And I could do that too. And so I think that that sparks both the permission and the ideation or the invention to go, why don't you go do that? And why don't you be who you are, and that for as long as we don't envy other people and try to copy exactly what they're doing. That's so freeing and liberating, when I am fully me, you get to be fully you. And people are just drawn by that the older I get Joshua, the more that I just want to be around healthy people. The younger I was horribly, I want to be around the most successful person. But frankly, I just want to be around somebody that is secure and who they are. They're healthy. Because when people are secure, and people are healthy, it turns out that they have an amazing impact. Yeah,

Joshua Johnson: 54:03

that's true. So if you could talk to your readers, people who read anti burnout, what's one hope you have for them? Slow

Alan Briggs: 54:12

down, internalize this. Don't try to do everything that's in the book. So I guess I just get him through. But somebody said to me the other day. Yeah, I'm sorry. I know I'm hosting a book study on this. And we're getting, I don't know, 40 people together, going to eat barbecue and actually walked through the book. She's like, I haven't even finished the book yet. And I said, I'm so glad because I saw she underlined and asked questions. She's doing the tools. And I said great, good news. This isn't just a book. This is actually a coaching experience and exercise. So to me, I would say Fred, don't try to cram information in your brain. Tried to create transit. Yeah, the information don't cram. Create transformation and pathways to go timeout I actually need to think deeper about the questions at the end of this chapter. He gives tools away for free, like we used to charge for all these tools, and now we're open sourcing them. Maybe this tool that works for him and a bunch of other leaders across the country would actually change my life. Maybe even get distracted, don't even second half of the book because the tools were the thing that you needed from them. And so I say it's a mountain guide for for on the mountain guides and leadership journey. Like this is like a trail guide. We're like, Alright, how do you navigate this climb? That's amazing, challenging, and scary. I call it Terra citing equal parts terrifying equal parts exciting, though friends, it's about transformation. And it's about action. It's not about information and just learning more it's actually about living our selves into a new way of being that will be my hope from it I Berto,

Joshua Johnson: 55:50

so how can people get your book? Where would you like to point people to what other places would you like to plug people into? Yeah,

Alan Briggs: 55:58

just head on over to Amazon. You could spell my name there. Alan Briggs ala NBRI GGS type in anti burnout. And I do want to invite you to think about the journal as well, the right side up journal have come up under my name as well. I don't know a better deal and leadership development. And I'm not like a massive sales and self promotion guy. But this is our third iteration of this. I literally use it every single morning. I've got it right here. And I essentially created the tool that I didn't see anywhere else. And if I can be vulnerable from it, like a lot of tools and these journals and these Yeah, I will. I won't name names. But there are some people who they're brilliant leaders. But I'm just neither organized or smart enough to follow along with their goal planning process. And I just want something for normal people like me, that wants to live a faithful life that want to produce things, but out of who I am. And it's got basic, really simple questions. So that's what the right side of journalism and frankly, anti burnout is real stories of real people, making real paradigm shifts, and seeing real change at the other end of it. And here's what's cool about it, is that I change the names. But because I've waited five years of full time coaching to write this book, we now have the transformation stories. And if I'd written to five years ago, we'd have principles and ideas and coaching processes. But now I smile and think that's the shift that Sarah made. That's the shift that Mark made. That's the shift that Chris made, and how cool that I've gotten to be part of it. Yeah,

Joshua Johnson: 57:29

that's amazing. Alan, thank you for this conversation. I really hope that it spurs people on to become a healthy leader that they would actually stop being overwhelmed that they would get clarity, they would see what their purpose is they would go and use something like the right side up journal, so that they could figure out what is their their weekly grid so that they could actually make decisions before things pop up, that they're not reactive, but they're proactive and what they do so that they can be healthy for the long haul that it is not about the launch, but it is about longevity. So thank you, this was fantastic. I really hope that people go out and get your book, connect with you. Everything that you're doing, thank you for your work, the pouring into leaders that will then be healthy, that has such a cascading effect throughout many organizations and other people. So well done. Good job. Thank you for this conversation. Yeah, thanks

Alan Briggs: 58:23

for having me. Keep up the great work.