E.155 Writing for Healing: The Therapeutic Power of Words For First Responders With Keith Hanks

Imagine dedicating 21 years of your life to saving others, only to find yourself grappling with your own inner battles. This episode features an incredibly candid conversation with Keith Hanks, a retired firefighter and EMT, who opens up about his complex PTSD diagnosis and the rocky journey from active duty to retirement. We unwrap Keith's transition, the trauma that led to his early retirement, and the powerful mission he has since undertaken to support fellow first responders and veterans through his Facebook group and the Traumatic Strength initiative. Keith’s story isn’t just about struggle; it's about resilience, community, and the relentless pursuit of mental well-being.

We tackle head-on the often-taboo topic of mental health among the first responder community. Keith shares his personal struggles with PTSD and the stigma that initially kept him from seeking help. He discusses the importance of honest conversations in therapy and finding the right therapist who truly understands the first responder experience. This episode sheds light on the evolving dialogue around mental health and emphasizes that vulnerability and openness are not signs of weakness but steps toward healing. Our discussion also touches on how trauma affects not only individuals but entire communities, and how teamwork and support play crucial roles in recovery.

Keith’s authentic storytelling extends beyond our conversation into his new book, "Allen," which took nine years to perfect. From raw journal entries to a refined narrative, Keith’s writing journey illustrates the cathartic power of putting pen to paper. We discuss the therapeutic benefits of writing, whether through journaling or more structured projects, and provide practical tips for those wanting to start their own writing journey. Keith’s upcoming projects, including a how-to guide on trauma and a children’s book about stress, reflect his unwavering commitment to mental health advocacy. Tune in to discover not just Keith’s story, but the transformative power of sharing our own.

Go buy his book at this link.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:03

Hi and welcome to Finding your Way Through Therapy. A proud member of the PsychCraft Network, the goal of this podcast is to demystify therapy, what can happen in therapy and the wide array of conversations you can have in and about therapy Through personal experiences. Guests will talk about therapy, their experiences with it and how psychology and therapy are present in many places in their lives, with lots of authenticity and a touch of humor. Here is your host, steve Bisson.

Speaker 2: 0:37

Alors toujours content de vous revoir. Always happy to see you back. This is episode 155,. You haven't listened to episode 154 yet. Please go back and listen to it. It was people pleasing and a little bit about people pleasing because I have a few clients who have shown a lot of interest with that. I have a few ideas in the long term for that, but please go back and listen. It's all good information. But episode 155 is a returning guest.

Speaker 2: 1:01

A returning guest I was on with, like three other people, on episode 119. His name is Keith Hanks. Keith Hanks is a retired firefighter EMT who dedicated 21 years of his life to the service of others. Keith was diagnosed with complex PTSD in 2015. The job, the service and his dedication caused him injuries that caused him to go on retirement. Since then, he started a mission to build international support through Facebook with the first responders and veterans for PTSD and other job-related stuff that he really enjoys. He was part of when you listen to it on episode 119, he was part of the First Responder in Crisis documentary Please go listen to that and Keith's transparency in his own life has led him to share his story through social media as well as many other platforms, including speaking. I'm hoping he'll talk about that and in 2023, he launched the Traumatic Strength which I think he's going to talk about, hopefully today, so hopefully he brings that up. He resides in New Hampshire and is a proud father of three incredible children, and here's his interview, right after this advertisement for freeai Getfreeai yes, you've heard me talk about it previously in other episodes, but I'm going to talk about it again because get freeai is just a great service.

Speaker 2: 2:33

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Speaker 2: 4:24

Well, hi everyone, welcome to episode 155. I'm happy to have someone back that I had on episode 119. That was the first responders in crisis documentary. I hope you guys grabbed it. I understand that it's available at other platforms now. So please go and check it out. Really a good documentary. And my guest was on, but he had to share his time to share his time and I said no way, man, not this time. Keith's not sharing his time. He's written a book. Uh, for those on youtube, look in the back, you'll see what it is. But I'm not even mentioning it now because then I'll force you to go to youtube. But, all joking aside, the book was released yesterday. I'm so excited and welcome back keith hanks thanks, steve, it's awesome to be back well, I'm happy to have you back.

Speaker 2: 5:09

You know it was great because, uh, was it about a month ago, not even quite a month ago. Three weeks ago we met for the first time yeah.

Speaker 3: 5:15

Yeah, it was kind of like an abbott and costello moment because you're really short, yeah you know now you're giving away all my secrets.

Speaker 2: 5:23

keith's really tall, but no, it was great to meet you and hopefully we get more of those. Definitely really enjoy talking to you. But for those who didn't listen to Episode 119, now that you don't have to share too much about your intro with other people, tell people about you a little bit.

Speaker 3: 5:42

Yeah, sure, I'm a father of three kids. I live in New Hampshire and I was a firefighter and EMT for 21 years down in Massachusetts, from 1996 to 2017. My family sort of came from the military and the firefighting background, so it was just the shoe fit. So I did it and, due to a lot of obvious things, I ended up getting quite a closet full of trauma unresolved. We didn't handle our stuff back then. It cost me my job.

Speaker 3: 6:09

I ended up leaving and going out on disability, kind of got into advocating earlier on, while I was still on the job, so around 2015. And it just kind of took off. I loved talking about being more proactive with mental wellness and stuff and it went from just putting out facebook posts, uh speaking on stage, to doing podcasts, to writing, to filming documentaries to a whole bunch of stuff, and it's just been a really cool journey up to this point so far, with a whole bunch of really fun and at times, horrible stuff in between um, you know as much as I want to talk a little bit about that bad stuff too.

Speaker 2: 6:48

I I want to, you know. I want to mention one thing I always find it really great when my guests mention their kids or whatever they have in their personal life. First, because that's the person, and I really appreciate that. Um, because I think some people forget about being a person. That's right. You don't always know who we are. I remember a professor in my undergrad I'm not sure that you know like. I remember he sat in front and he's like who knows who they are and a bunch of hands went up and he's like uh, you're all liars. Number two, if you know who you are before you die, you are a better person than I am right and I always remember that that.

Speaker 2: 7:24

You know I were so complex as human beings and you know you're very. You know you really hit in the nail on the head. We have so many roles and it's very important to think about that. I definitely want to talk about the book, but I know that you do a lot of other stuff, keith, and you know for me, you know, all joking aside, even though he's, like, you know, seven foot five and I'm about six five. I'm six five and I'm about four, nine. So, uh, doesn't show. That's what's great about cameras just shows that I'm a little bigger than most people.

Speaker 2: 7:53

But, yeah, I want to talk about the book, but one of the things that I really admire about you and you know, I saw it at that conference that we went to or get together I don't even know what to call it from mental health month right, it was very important met a lot of great folks, you know. And one of the things that I really like is you're advocating, and you were. I could see you, you know, I sat at my table, I saw you sit at yours, but I can see you're advocating for your stuff. So, really, it'd be interesting to hear more about how you got into advocating. You mentioned a little bit in your intro, but how did you get into that?

Speaker 3: 8:27

So the biggest thing I found when I, when I realized I was having a lot of issues due to trauma, uh, and then we eventually got told, hey, you got ptsd was there wasn't a lot of talk about it. No one was talking about, especially in the first responder world, that they were talking about a little bit more at that point in 2015, in the military, uh, but first responders weren't, and and in my time I had heard, you know, suck it up, don't talk about it. You know, close the door, kind of stuff. And I knew that a lot of my struggles were because of that, because we weren't talking about it, because we didn't know you know what to do, what? How? How do we heal? Was? Was it that we needed to heal or do we just need to fix it?

Speaker 3: 9:00

I think most of us thought there was a magic pill and it was just going to go away. So that's really what kind of opened the door for me to be like. Well, you know something, I'm a pretty open and blunt guy and I don't mind sharing. So I started sharing my story and it just kind of took off, and every time I did it it was very cathartic, and not only did I feel like I was helping others, but I was actually helping myself at the same time, because I was facing this stuff as I shared whatever I was sharing, and so it just took off and grew and you know when did you first, kind of like, started sharing?

Speaker 2: 9:37

because one of the first steps like you know, I have first responders, obviously, that I see on a regular basis. They asked me how do you get through it? I said you talk about it the first time ever. No matter where you talk about it, that's the most important part. But where did you first start talking?

Speaker 3: 9:52

about it. So I guess I've always been at therapy most of my life, but I was never really honest with therapy and I stopped going for a number of years. And then, in 2003, my first wife was killed in a car accident and I went to grief counseling and even still that kind of transitioned to regular counseling and therapy and even still I wasn't sharing a lot of my stuff, like the childhood stuff that I had been through, and no one was really taking my job into account. And it wasn't until about 2015, when I sort of hit my first rock bottom, that I really started talking about everything. I was like all right, I know all this stuff happened. Why am I not sharing it? And so I started sharing it and being honest and I started having good experiences by doing so.

Speaker 3: 10:43

It wasn't negative. So I started sharing it and being honest and I started having good experiences by doing so. It wasn't negative, it wasn't like it was happening again, it wasn't anything like that, and that got me the confidence and strength to be able to share it more openly and more publicly and even with, like my family that's kind of where it grew from was was honestly therapy well, I know that you mentioned that you've been through diverse, uh things with therapy throughout your your life and you know, getting honest, was that because of the grief or was it about something else?

Speaker 3: 11:18

honestly you know, it was being honest really happened in 2015 with the whole diagnosis with PTSD right, and the reason for it was that I realized that I was getting worse and I had been in therapy numerous times throughout my life since I was about seven, and I had never shared a bunch of stuff. It was always like how was your week, how was your day? I never delved into the past very much. I never shared or elaborated on things. Uh, even if they were asked, I was always brushing them under the carpet. So honesty is when, uh, in 2015,. Honesty is when it really uh, settled in. I got more comfortable with what I had been through.

Speaker 2: 12:00

I know I'm going to toss you a softball here, but, um, I think it's important for people to hear that. Did you open up because the therapist found that magic wand, that magic pill and said the right question, or did you decide to open up about stuff?

Speaker 3: 12:13

I think it was a combination, honestly.

Speaker 2: 12:15

You have the magic wand. Where's the therapist?

Speaker 3: 12:19

He's waving the wand. He's waving the wand. Like I said, it's a combination. Honestly, I got lucky and and you know I was well versed in how therapy and counseling went by that point I was, you know, in my 30s and the therapist was a younger, younger guy, um, down in mclean's outside of boston and um, but he was another bullshit kind of guy and he saw straight through me and he was the first person first therapist who was always like I know there's more back there and, being a blunt guy, I actually respond very good to another down-to-earth conversation, blunt person and um, that was really what did it. And I was like, all right, let's this out. And I kind of dipped my toe in the water a little bit and sat a share of the things and you know he didn't run away and so it worked and he was well-versed in the first responder world. That was sort of his specialty was, you know, first responders and military, so that helped.

Speaker 2: 13:26

You know, the reason why I ask is this is that you know the. The reason why I ask is this is that I, you know I will ask the blunt questions. But I also at one point say look, man, you want to waste your time lying to me and all that. You're not wasting my time. I'm making the same money whether you're lying or telling the truth. Pretty sure he said that to me at some point too. And you know most first responders that I've worked with military people and, um, actually people in hospitals to respond really well to that stuff and people are like wow, you're really blunt with people. I'm like Molly, I don't care if people bullshit me, I get paid the same amount. It's not like oh, it was a harder session, let's throw an extra 20 at Steve. No, it's the same exact amount of money.

Speaker 2: 14:01

We don't work on tips. So no, I wanted to hear it from you because when I share it to people, I ask the hard questions. But if you decide you're going to bullshit me, I'm not trying harder than you. That's not the job of a therapist and I just want to put it out there because I think that my first responders actually really respond as soon as I go like, oh so what fucked you up to get in here? And they go, oh, this, this, this and this. That brought back my childhood memories. I'm like great, we got plenty of like shit that we can talk about now. But other people are like I don't know, I'm just here because I need some help. Right right, all right. Well, you keep on saying that we'll spend six months talking about the weather. It's okay it's true.

Speaker 3: 14:42

It's true and honestly I think people, there's a big misnomer with therapy and counseling is that you're going to go there and they're going to fix you. It isn't any modality you use, it's on you. You have to fix you. You have to heal you. People are there to help moderate that process, but you really have to do it yourself.

Speaker 2: 14:59

I repeat this pretty much every other podcast, but I'll say it again you know what the most effective therapy in the world is? The therapeutic alliance. It has nothing to do with cbt, mdr, uh, dbt or act or whatever all those acronyms are is if you get along with your therapist and your therapist can call you on your stuff and you feel connected to them. That's what's important, not the method that person uses. True statement. I've I've had that conversation where people call me like hey, I want to start therapy. I see that you do CBT and I'm like, if that's your first inclination, we're probably not a good match. Oh, you don't do CBT. I'm like I'm pretty good at CBT, but it's about connecting with someone. It has nothing to do with a modality. Right, right, that's right, right, that's very true and I think that's what you know. You talk about a little bit about your goal or like I'd like to hear more about. You know your goals in regarding to presenting, about mental health, but one of my goals to tell people too is like it's up to you, I, I can't. You got to open up. I'll be here, I'll be supportive. There's not much I haven't heard yet. You do this for 20 something years. Yeah, I'm not fragile yet, haven't broken down yet. I have my own therapist. That's why I have my own therapist to work through myself.

Speaker 2: 16:10

Yeah, but you know, like I think that for me you talk about the goals in therapy. I always tell people you open up, great, you're gonna win. You don't open up, I really don't lose anything. I stay, I stay pretty even keel. You're you're gonna lose that. But you know you talk about presentations on mental health. I wish you know I said that to you when we went to that presentation in Worcester. I wish I knew you were presenting. I can't. You know. I'm sure that you're going to have some more presentations with the book coming out yesterday, but can you tell me more about your goals about presenting about mental health?

Speaker 3: 16:45

presenting about mental health. I always tell people when I present and this is from when I first did it back in 2021, when I first went on stage and did a public presentation my goal isn't to get people to be able to get on stage and do the same thing as me. My goal, by sharing publicly, is showing people the courage to be able to share their own stuff privately. And I, for me, on my journey, I denied most of my story, most of my life. I just refused to accept that it happened and that caused me not to face it right. And by not facing it, the older I got, the harder it got to stuff it.

Speaker 3: 17:18

And one of the biggest goals when I do this and whenever, whenever you present, for anyone who ever presents, whether you teach, whether you do public presentations for 30 people or 300 you, you you don't always make eye contact, but you can see what people's eyes do, and the minute people start looking down and kind of doing that like nod off into the third world, here it's, you're hitting them and they're thinking about it and that's really like a short-term goal is people having that realization Like, holy shit, I get this guy, I've been there too. I'm not alone. And that's the hardest thing with like mental health is that so many people think they're alone, and sometimes hearing someone else's story or reading someone else's story can bring you back to the crowd, I guess make you feel like you're not so odd, you're not a reject, you're not abnormal, that everyone has their shit and that's really the goal is just to let people know that, hey, we're all human, we're all in this together honestly and, uh, you know we all hurt I'll use a less colorful uh words.

Speaker 2: 18:26

But uh, usually when people come in they say I feel abnormal. I'm like, I'm abnormal too. The guy before you was there, everyone I know, is abnormal, which is all abnormal differently, and we just gotta address their stuff right. You know, I think that that's the hardest part. I see a lot of firefighters and first responders in general, you know like, oh well, you know, willie handled it much better than you know. Uh, I did. Oh, I gotta get to that level.

Speaker 3: 18:53

I I don't know if the comparison game ever works in mental health, especially in the first responder world no, it's a losing battle with that, and you know I know people who are in this advocating, you know, with me, who are always like oh, you know, I haven't been through what you have and it's like it doesn't matter, it's all relative to who you are and what you've been through. What's bad to me may not be as bad to the next person. Or maybe the most debilitating thing they've ever heard and the same with, like your story. I may not think much of it or I may be like, oh my God, I can't imagine what that is. It's relative to who you are.

Speaker 2: 19:23

You only know what you know and so there is no comparison, there is no dick measuring in this no, and I think that that's what I you know, all joking aside, you know Keith said, you know keith said you know how taller he was in me, but that's the closest thing, in comparison that he did otherwise.

Speaker 2: 19:44

He, like you, treat me as a human being. I definitely don't have the same experience as him, but he's like, hey, your experience is valuable too. So I again, that's what I I got from what you were saying and that's what you were telling a whole lot of people there. I think it's important for people to hear that their experience is as important as anybody else's it is, and it's the basis of any good therapy too.

Speaker 3: 19:57

Is that trying to compare your stuff or less than a how bad you feel your stuff is?

Speaker 2: 20:03

but I think that that's, you know, common in the first responders world. You know, unconsciously, I don't think anyone says compare yourself to that person. But I think that, oh well, keith handled it well. So what's wrong with me? No, keith's probably screwed up inside, you don't know it. Or keep did really well because he's seen this me now. Keith's probably screwed up inside, you don't know it. Or keith did really well because he's seen this seven times and goes to therapy regularly. But you can't do the comparison game out of that conversation regularly with people, not about keith in particular, just in general.

Speaker 3: 20:29

I'd be okay if you did it about keith you know what?

Speaker 2: 20:31

I'm going to start using your name instead and if you don't know what I'm talking about.

Speaker 2: 20:37

Go to episode 155 and read his book. Just plug everything to my clients, cause I can't sell my stuff. I can sell whatever you want. You know. That's the ethics of that, and if anybody's listening, I'm joking, I don't push anything on anyone, you know, and the other goal that I get from you is that again, correct me if I'm wrong I don't think you want anyone to go alone with this stuff. No, and I don't know if that was your experience or you've seen that or, but I just want to throw that out because that's my experience with you is that you never want a person to go. No, I'm stronger than this, I can handle this.

Speaker 3: 21:13

I don't know if you can elaborate a little more about that, but yeah, I don't know if you can elaborate a little more about that, but yeah, I mean, that was definitely the way I sort of felt going through this, especially, you know, back in the 90s and early odds, where there was no discussion about it. I felt very alone, very on my own with it because we weren't talking about it. And you know, in the fire service we have this and they're trying to get rid of it. But just to kind of go old school, they have the whole two in, two out. But they're trying to get rid of it, but just to kind of go old school, they have the whole two in, two out.

Speaker 3: 21:42

But even beyond that, we're a team, right, and you wouldn't go if you had a crew. You wouldn't go and put a fire out by yourself If you had your, your rest of your brothers and sisters standing there. You know it's the same with this and we all, we all have something we can bring to the table when it comes to mental health and wellness and specifically trauma. And I honestly think that the more and it has in the last five to seven years the discussion has changed. I think more people are talking about it.

Speaker 2: 22:05

I think people are more willing to talk about it, because we are talking about it more uh and making it more of a a common kitchen table conversation you know, and I shared this with you, I think privately, and I'm going to talk in general terms, but I have a person who's under 32, actually, who contacted me and said hey, I'm doing well with the first responder stuff right now, but I want a therapist right away, just in case. And it blows my mind, like you said two thousand, you say 2017. 10 years ago, like you know, you would have said that's going to happen. I would have said you're high man.

Speaker 3: 22:40

Even in 2017,.

Speaker 2: 22:41

I would have said wow, you smoke a lot of good stuff, man.

Speaker 3: 22:44

It's true it's changed a lot and we have a long way to go and I think in the first responder world specifically, I think we're sort of stuck just after awareness. We're not quite much further down that path to it being part of like regular discussion and regular training and education and being more proactive with it. But we are aware and that's a huge difference compared to just like seven years ago, maybe, maybe a little bit further back, but awareness is there for sure, I think it was an informal conversation in the past.

Speaker 2: 23:18

In the past, you know, I look at first responders in general. Yeah, you had your schism and your scissors and stuff like that. Yeah, because there's one that's called scissor right? Am I right? Cisr? Uh, there might be, yeah, crisis intervention, stress response or something like that yeah, there's a few different acronyms for it, they're all the same to me.

Speaker 2: 23:37

Scissor makes me sound. You laughed. I laughed the first time. I heard that too. Um, but I think that that's not sufficient. And and then for me getting into, like you know, I'm not saying it's not good. It probably serves a handful of people, which is great. Serve them, that's awesome. If they get the help they want from it, that's great. But I think that finding other ways to reach out people like, sometimes it's good to have a peer talk about it, which is you know your role, and sometimes it's good to go to some guy who knows about mental health and wants to talk about mental health and I think there's, there's not one way of doing this. I mean just, I don't know what you think, but that's really what I believe.

Speaker 3: 24:16

I think the citizens and the peer support team are great. Citizens are, obviously when something happens, and peer support can be very good if it's done correctly and people are trained in how to do it and they're not just in it to try to fix everyone's problems because you're not going to. But I think the whole being more proactive with this is really what's going to be a game changer. When people start invoking this stuff before it's a problem, where we're talking about it even before the first responder becomes the first responder, like we're talking about this at a high school level. We're preparing, you know, kids to go out in the field and and maybe having already dealt with the trauma they carried from their childhood before they go in the career field. You know this is it's really about being proactive and I and I think there is so many different approaches to that whether it's trainings and presentations and speeches, or it's using the modalities and giving you know wellness talks and stuff like that.

Speaker 2: 25:11

There's so many angles you know you talk about the change and you know, shared with me and they're in retirement age now. But when they started in the fire service they had trouble with a call. I'm going to save the call just in case it's identifiable for someone. And I was like, hey, you know what we went to. He was 20-something. Hey, can I just talk to you about it? He's like, if you need to talk about this, you won't be able to handle this job. And I'm like, wow, like I hope you never said that to anyone. He's like, no, I would never say that to anyone, but that's, you know. That's the old school mentality, in my opinion yeah, suck it up buttercup, right, and there's a time for sucking a buttercup.

Speaker 2: 25:52

And there's times we go like, hey, if you're you know, if it smells like shit and it looks like shit, you better, you don't need to taste it. It's shit, you know. Um, and I think that that's what we need to understand is that if someone says they're having trouble, I mean I've had many phone calls that if I started comparing which traumas are worse or better or whatever, I we would be here for hours, but at the end of the day, seeing a dead animal versus you having, uh, you know, four or five fatalities of xyz. I'm trying to keep it as general as I can. I don't want to trigger anyone. There's not one worse than the other.

Speaker 3: 26:25

It's it's equivalent as it's how it affects that individual yeah, it all depends on what that individual is, too, in their life. They may be able to handle a bad situation one day, and maybe they can't. Maybe it hits them the next because of where they're at in their personal life or where things have caught up to them at all.

Speaker 2: 26:41

It's the individual I think that that's a good, good segue to talk a little bit about, uh, the mission of your business, about traumatic strength. That's the name of it, right? Um, I'd like to talk more about traumatic strength if you want to share a little bit with everyone here yeah.

Speaker 3: 26:57

So I said I sort of developed it once I started presenting a little bit more and it was it's sort of an all-encompassing sort of business where I I really push the training and the proactive discussions and, uh, what I, what I've sort of done, uh, in order to allow myself to grow as time goes on is sort of set a general group of presentations where, at any point, should more requests be made to have this done, I can have other people with with their own story, come in and teach what I'm already teaching because, yeah, I'm sharing my story but, like I said, we all have a story and for another person to come in and use their story and then get the message across of what the you know the training or the presentation is, just makes it that more audience friendly.

Speaker 3: 27:49

And so that's really sort of the mission of the business and the goal is to just get more tools, more resources, more trainings and more talk in front of not just first responders but people in general society. So we get more comfortable with this. This nasty word of trauma and PTSD and almost not talking about it still to some degree.

Speaker 2: 28:11

You're right, and I think that the education of the population also what a first responder may go through is also very important. Because I think that you know, I look at people you know about my age, who don't know much about first responder stuff. I'm like, um, they're like, oh, you know they what? They just put out fires. So they're probably sleeping most of the day and I'm like god, they wish to just put out fires. There's like one fire every month at best. Uh, no offense, I'm not trying to upset anyone. I hope you got the joke here. But all the medical calls and stuff like that, I mean even the general public doesn't know about that.

Speaker 3: 28:47

I don't think they do. I think there's a lot of misnomers. I think it doesn't matter Even first responders in regards to other parts of the first responder world. I think a lot of people who've never been dispatched don't know what they first responder world. I think a lot of people who've never been, never dispatched, uh, don't know what they go through. I think a lot of people have never had to work on an ambulance don't know what they go through.

Speaker 3: 29:03

If you've never been a cop, you know. If you know there's always that animosity between you know firefighters and cops and it's that it's that way for a reason. It's usually pretty friendly. But I don't know what it's like to be a cop. I've always been a buckethead, I've always worked on the Band-Aid wagon. I don't know what it's like to dispatch. So even then, if you don't know, if you haven't done it, you don't know. And the general population doesn't. They think that when they call 911 and we show up, we've been doing nothing else all day and we're there at their beck and call and here we are, we're waiting for them to call 9-1-1, and that that isn't how it is. Most of the time that's not how it is and you know, a lot of people don't understand that we typically come from something else that may be pretty horrendous and um, you know they don't. If you don't know, you don't know.

Speaker 2: 29:53

And education is key you're talking about educating trauma. I think educating about what first responders do is also very important. I mean, you know, I I've literally not too recently, but I've heard recently how come they don't have dalmatians. I said, oh, because the card game went too long. Like, really, I'm like no, no, none of that. It just made up stuff. And you listened to me yeah, right, right. So I think that it's important and you know, if you know traumatic strength, is this something that's been ongoing? Is it something that you're, you know, you're still presenting about what's going on with that?

Speaker 3: 30:33

So it's. I put it together probably about a year ago and so I kind of use it for almost everything I do. I do it for my presentations, I do it for my writing. You know I have it as sort of the basis for you know where the book came from. In a way, it's not just presentations, it could be for really anything, and so you know it's just the sky's the limit at this point with it, uh, and I hope to kind of build it out, uh from here and get multiple, you know multiple people involved where we can just go out there and just help educate people and bring resources and modalities to where they need to be well, I think that this is a good transition.

Speaker 2: 31:15

And to go to talk about your book, uh, sure you know what's interesting is. When you gave me the, you know it came out yesterday. It's called alan um and I'm like, is that his middle name? I was trying to figure out where the title came from it is all right.

Speaker 2: 31:31

So I wasn't crazy, all right, no, no, you were spot on right there. Like I really literally like I'm like I'm waiting for the book to get here. I want to read the book, but I'm like, oh, where did Alan come from? So you know it's. Having written a book myself, I always find that fascinating. How long did it take for you to write the?

Speaker 3: 31:49

book. This is a funny story, so it took the longest. Short is nine years. I started writing this when I first started getting real help for my PTSD. So, 2015,. I started writing this.

Speaker 3: 32:03

It began as journal entries. The book that is out now is actually the fifth version of what started, yeah. So obviously, you know, when I started going through initial correct therapy and using right modalities and stuff, I started getting very angry. So when I started writing, it was coming across very angry and so after the journal entry version, it became sort of just verbal diarrhea of my life and it was relatively short, it was, you know, smaller and then that sort of transitioned into a version of the book that I didn't do chronologically. It was still my story, uh, but it was like by subject matter and by different things that happened that could be grouped together and I was like, wow, that's really patchy, that's really hard to follow. People are going to get tripped out and I was getting tripped out trying to trying to follow along, uh.

Speaker 3: 32:53

So then I put that version into chronological order. So now we're talking like 2020. Okay, and I was like, wow, this still doesn't read like I want it to. It's still a little too angry. It's still too blamey, too finger pointing, and I'm like that's not who I am, and so late into 2022,. I had sat down with someone who was like listen, I've seen you present, write your book like you present, be blunt, be raw and take ownership. And so I did so. I took the last version that was chronologically angry, I guess, and took some pieces of it, which was that version was about 160 000 words and um. I condensed it and rewrote basically my entire story and made it 96 000 words and it became what is now alan and um. I also transitioned away from it being a firefighter based story. It's a story. It's a man's life story.

Speaker 2: 34:00

You happen to be a firefighter happen to be a firefighter.

Speaker 3: 34:03

It happens to be a lot of stuff from the job, but it's not just applicable to the first responder in me well, I appreciate that, and you know writing a book.

Speaker 2: 34:13

You know I, when I tell people it took me three years, people are like wow, it took you a while. But you said nine. I'm like damn, okay, well, he wrote a little longer. You know again, I know it's kind of a softball question, so to speak, but I still want to ask it anyway when was that anger coming from?

Speaker 3: 34:33

So I guess a lot of it was as I started processing the stuff that I was going through, specifically writing it down and seeing it in words, right, or typing it Um, I was getting initially probably sad, but I was feeling very cheated. I was like, holy shit, this, this stuff really happened to me and you know, I'd have like my wife would, would occasionally read a chapter or whatnot. She's like, well, this is, this is really well written, but this is horrible and I'm really sad for you. And I was like I guess initially that's probably where the anger came from is I was owning it. I was owning that I went through this because I never had at that point.

Speaker 3: 35:13

So, between therapy and writing, I was really getting this like full healing process going because I was owning what I had been through. I'd always pushed it aside or I talked about it, but I didn't feel it. And it was when I was writing it and putting words to what I had been through in my life that I started feeling it. And that's where the power in this book really came from is that I wrote something based on my perspective and how it affected me and the way it made me feel, and I told it that way.

Speaker 1: 35:42

And so that's really initially.

Speaker 3: 35:43

That's where the anger came from was just the initial feeling of it.

Speaker 2: 35:47

So it was the feeling, because I was going to say writing down that stuff can be pretty anger provoking or at least isolating. I don't know what the right word is.

Speaker 3: 35:56

I'm not much of a semantics guy but I bet that that you know, seeing that visually must be very difficult too. It was and eventually transitioned into being very cathartic and very healing at this point. So much of my life I've become very peaceful with because I have healed so much of it. I mean there's a great deal of it. I have a lot of work to do. I always tell people I'm a work in progress, but the? Um, so much of it I've been able to heal because I wrote it and I was able to feel angry, I was able to feel sad, scared even at times. Um, I felt all of it and it was honestly, at this point I can tell you it was great.

Speaker 2: 36:38

It was great to feel it. So are you telling me you're normalizing not only what people, go through.

Speaker 3: 36:40

You're also normalizing how they feel and just say hey, you feel what you feel. That's it, man. You are what you are, you feel what you feel.

Speaker 2: 36:44

We all have emotions are you sure you're a firefighter or former firefighter, not a former therapist? I mean jesus christ man maybe I should have been.

Speaker 3: 36:54

I missed my calling you know what?

Speaker 2: 36:57

I think that with the job that you guys, you, you do in fire, I think that you guys are therapists personally. It's a different type of therapy. You're more of a crisis mode therapist, but you are therapists in my opinion at times we definitely are each other.

Speaker 2: 37:11

There's in our own yeah well, you know, nothing's more fun than going to your bunk after a few calls and waiting for that little alarm to go off. But anyway, that's my two cents. You know, when we write a book, I know for me, writing my book, I talk from a therapist perspective, but I shared a few stories about myself. As I understand it, you know, in the book talk about your childhood. Yep, how is that? How's that writing that stuff down?

Speaker 3: 37:37

That was honestly, the last thing I wrote. Um, yeah, so it's the front, it's the beginning of the book, but it's the last thing I wrote, and I did it for a reason I I knew that it was going to be hard to write and I wanted to write it well, and I knew that if I wrote the rest of the book first, I was going to know how, what theme I was going to go with, what the tempo was going to be, and that way, when it got hard writing about my childhood I was going to give it its due justice and all that. And so it was hard. It was hard, but I'm going to tell you, as I wrote it again, I felt it, and I felt it the way I needed to feel it as an adult, and I healed greatly from from doing so, and so it ended up being a very powerful portion of the book, which is about three chapters worth of the book, before we get to, maybe, an adult adulthood.

Speaker 2: 38:40

Is it tying some of the past with the pre, with with the present or present ish, because you're talking about your past in some ways, but not as far past. Do you think that that's a little bit of uh, that that happened or any other things happen, or?

Speaker 3: 38:48

I think, throughout the book, what I always try to do is tie in everything that I had been through and what I was currently going through at that point in the book and I know, know that that's relevant. That's been relevant my whole life that, especially where so much of my life was spent living with unresolved trauma because I wasn't dealing with it, that so many things that were happening in their present day were because of the past, and so in the book I try to relate that when things happen through whether you know whether it's a flashback I have moments in the book I try to relate that when things happen through whether you know whether it's a flashback I have moments in the book where there's like a written out flashback or a dream, and I always try to relate it to what I had been through, because I was constantly reliving so much of my past until I started dealing with this shit that I relate it whenever.

Speaker 2: 39:34

I can. And then, you know, there's a theory from Gabor Mathe. They talk about this a lot because I really think it's an interesting theory and the theory is we do jobs to heal our past and I know that relates to a little bit of what you said, but I certainly think that that is absolutely true.

Speaker 3: 39:51

For the record, there's a saying help others and you help yourself in this job, and I think it probably applies to maybe even therapists and health care and maybe even some of the fields. But, uh, I knew I always tell people these days I always tell people, uh, that I became a firefighter because no one was there to help me when I needed it and I knew I wanted to be there for others when they needed it and I didn't know it wasn't always a satisfaction I needed, because we weren't always. You can't always help everyone and that was a tough pill to swallow. But now, with advocating and writing and different things, I know I can help people more on the level I've always wanted to.

Speaker 2: 40:35

And I really can't remember if it was aristotle or socrates who said save the life, save the world, yeah. So if I misspoke, you guys can all write to me, uh complaints uh.

Speaker 2: 40:47

But at the end of the day, I think that that's what I also tell a whole lot of people, that people ask me all the time, would I do this for a living? And I say, because I never want someone to be as alone as I was. Yep, you know, and so we again. Maybe that's why we get along so well, because we have a similar job statement, so to speak. That's right.

Speaker 2: 41:05

I think it's so important to be able, like for me as a therapist you know one of the things I joke around it's not even a joke, it's in the ethics book you're not supposed to share anything about your personal life, right, because you're taking away from the client. I think it's the exact opposite, especially with, again, working with first responders, working with medical personnel, sharing something, again, not doing your therapy through your clients. That's not big no-no. But you know, like, when I share some of the difficulties or some of the stuff that I've been through, most people like oh, you're a relatable human being and I think that's important, for you were talking about your book. I. I think that that's so important because I think reading that story is going to help a whole lot of people go hey, I can relate to this.

Speaker 3: 41:44

I think it's going to help a lot of people going through their own shit, but I also think it's going to help people in your field. I think it's going to help therapists get some insight into why it's so hard for a first responder man or woman to open up and you know it's not just the, you know the suck it up buttercup and tell A lot of it's shame. Guilt and shame get so confusing. Guilt and shame get so confusing. And a lot of us, because we feel like we're put on this pedestal with what we do for work, that the way we feel inside we're supposed to be, you know, very shameful about. And a lot of what I try to convey in my book is that that is what led to every one of my suicide attempts.

Speaker 3: 42:31

Was this overwhelming shame that I shouldn't be this way. I'm supposed to be this tough guy. I'm supposed to be this elephant man. I'm supposed to be this. Nothing bothers me, nothing affects me. I'm failing my family, oh my God, all this and that is part of the puzzle piece. I think that gets lost when, when you know a first responder or anyone really goes to therapy and they're beating around the bush and you know, wasting their time. Wasting the therapist's time and maybe some insight into my story is a little bit much. Not everyone has been through a lot of what I have been through and I can understand and appreciate that, but I think everyone has been through a little of what I've been through and that's the relatable part is that everybody can kind of benefit from learning.

Speaker 2: 43:11

People who help people with these things and then the people who go through it as well, I think can benefit from getting this insight and I'm happy you said that it could be helpful for therapists, because that's something that I want to hear more, because I want therapists to read stuff like that. You know, I think that you know my, my therapist friends sometimes like oh, I've dealt with shame. I'm like I don't know if you've dealt with the level of shame that first responders carry on a regular basis because they don't remember the 14 great calls, they remember the one that went wonky. Yeah, and I'm trying to be as generous as I can with that word you, you know what I mean and you know, at the end of the day it's like that's not and telling him like, okay, so let's talk about that dead cat is not going to open up anyone. It's really meeting him where they're at.

Speaker 2: 43:57

But also be slightly confrontive when you see something and not being confrontive in a jerk way Like hey, you looked away when you said that. What was going on in your head. I know that's very therapeutic what I just said, but I also know that for people like, oh, do I go after this? With first responders, if you pull a punch, you are screwed and you literally have to go after anything that looks like. You know, I've had people who've pulled the crying thing like, oh, I just don't want to cry in front of you.

Speaker 3: 44:29

What the hell are you talking about? About?

Speaker 2: 44:30

that's why we're here I mean, you're in therapy. This is the safest place where you can cry. If anything, this, it's safer than anywhere else. You're gonna go, what is? So you laugh because you know exactly what I'm talking about I did it for years.

Speaker 3: 44:43

I did. I ran from my emotions for years and when, once, I finally cried in therapy, uh, I haven't stopped. I haven't stopped crying in therapy.

Speaker 2: 44:52

That's where I do my best crying, my therapist gets to see the ugly cry and the snot and everything else, and I think that that's all important stuff. The other thing we talked a little bit about this, but we talked about the angle of writing a book. You talked about maybe being able to reach also therapists to make them understand. Is there another angle that you've taken writing this book so that people can kind of see where it's coming from?

Speaker 3: 45:15

Yeah, like I said, one of the initial versions was definitely a more first responder gear book, right, and on that journey I was discovering more of who I am and that, you know, what I did for a job was just that. It was what I did for a job was just that. It was what I did for a job. And, um, I wanted a book that I would have benefited from as a teenager, as a 20 something year old asshole, you know, as a 30 year old asshole, you know, or a middle-aged man, or maybe someone who just retired, uh, from any job.

Speaker 3: 45:46

I wanted a book that I could pick up and be like, retired from any job. I wanted a book that I could pick up and be like, wow, I've done that, and not even like on the job level, just in life. Like, wow, I've been, like I felt like that I've literally wanted to not walk into a restaurant because there's been five more people than I feel acceptable, because my hyper vigilance is going crazy. You know, like I wanted people to be able to pick up a book that I wrote and not be like, well, I'm not a firefighter, so I'm not gonna get this. It's, it's more personal that there's a lot less of a once you, once you open the front cover, it's more of a you know, here's this, here's this 45 year old boy, essentially, because that's really what I am is a, you know, a full-grown child, and uh, that's that's, and I and I hope people can get that- connection.

Speaker 2: 46:33

I'm nodding not because of you, but I'm saying aren't we all like grown children anyway? That's it. Yeah, that's why I'm nodding and I'm happy you took that angle to get a lot of people to relate to it, because I, as much as much as it's helpful to have first responders look at it, I think that the general public, I think that the therapists, I think people need to see it in a different light. And you know, like I said, I've met Keith a few times now and you know the authenticity that Keith shows in his book and the authenticity he shows as himself is something to keep in mind in like as a therapist, as a first responder going going to therapy, as the general public, because people come in and they're like hi, how are you? I'm like, oh, it's gonna be a long session. I don't want. Hi, how are you? I'll be like not that I want people to be miserable, I just want them to be honest.

Speaker 2: 47:23

right, you know, and if they're happy, that's great, but when people are too little bubbly and like something's wrong, oh yeah, yeah, putting frosting on something, it still smells like right, and I think that that's why, like you know, it's important for for you, you go read this book and I say this like, keith is an amazing speaker. I know he's going to be doing other speaking engagements at some point, but this book is a reflection of who he is, because he can't fake keith, and that's the greatest thing in the world. I definitely can't fake you. Oh, that's why I tell people all the time I can't fake me. That's why I like.

Speaker 2: 47:59

One of the one of the things I really like about you is that if I saw you in new hampshire and you didn't know I was there, you'd probably the same exact guy that talked to me at that place or here on the podcast. And I believe in authenticity and I think that that's the other part about Alan is. It's a very authentic book and, talking about your nine years of writing it, the authenticity is just probably is the most important thing in my life and I think I see that in you and I know that it's in the book.

Speaker 3: 48:30

Yeah, no, no for sure, and that that was part of the point of this version of the book was to to show people you know it's all about being who you really are, no matter what it is, no matter how scary it is, no matter how embarrassing it may be, no matter how many, how bad it may be. Maybe you made some bad mistakes about really taking it all and just owning it and, uh, and living a good life taking it all and just owning it and, uh, and living a good life, and welcome to the club.

Speaker 2: 48:52

If you made a bad mistake, right, it's okay. Right, we're human. I've never made a mistake as a person. That's never existed. But that's just me. It's very true. You know, one of the things I want to mention to everyone. You know, like, I talked to keith beforehand, so this is not he's not being shocked here, but keith's going to be signing a book and he's going to be giving it away. So you guys reach out to me through, you know, instagram. If you're on the podcast, you can go on the all the major platforms. Now you can like, send a message to Steve or something to that effect. You can go, click on that. And from all those names, I'm going to give out a book to someone. One lucky winner. So just go Instagram, facebook, email, whatever. And I definitely wanted this book. You keep, we'll sign it and it's worthwhile, I promise. But I wanted to share that. And for those of you who don't win the book, I wonder where we can get the book. Keith.

Speaker 3: 49:45

So, yeah, when it gets out to the different retailers and stuff, you're going to be able to find it on Amazon Amazon is a big one, right and then Walmart, walmartcom, target. These are all typically online. So Walmart, target, barnes, noble, there's a few other smaller names and then we also are going with some international distributors as well, so people in the UK and Europe can get their hands on it, and then Australia and New Zealand is also some distributors and basically the way it works, if you type in Alan, alan Keith Hanks or Alan the book, it'll come up with all the different spots where you can find it. And Amazon most people have Amazon, but a lot of people use target and Walmart.

Speaker 2: 50:28

And then obviously Barnes and Noblebles a pretty big site too you know, now I got like all I can think of is hashtag alan the book, uh, which is going to go into a hashtag for social media. Do you plan on writing again? Because, uh, I'm wondering because nine years, hopefully it'll take you a little less time.

Speaker 3: 50:47

I'm just saying uh, book wise, I I already started. Um, I actually have a quite a few projects lined up. Uh, I actually write poetry. Most people don't know this, but I write poetry and, um, I've been it.

Speaker 3: 51:01

It probably won't be the next book that comes out, but I plan on putting on a book on poetry, uh, that's, you know, based about trauma and mental well-being. Uh, it'll tell a story, I'm sure, um, but it takes a long time to collect poems, uh. So, uh, my next book is actually going to be called traumatic strength and, um, it will be more of a how-to sort of a guide. Um, it'll be filled with what worked, what doesn't work, some of my story to to give you know, so some students to you know what the subject matter is being talked to but, uh, more of a, more of a guidebook on on how to, how to get through this stuff and not, you know, given from a first responder point of view, but given to for anyone to be able to use.

Speaker 3: 51:45

And then, beyond that, I'm working on trying to get a, uh, a children's book, uh, illustrated, to sort of help that age group between, like, say, five and ten, for kids to understand maybe why, you know, mommy or daddy, uh, are angry or you know why? Why there's stress in the house or why these things happen? Uh, because I know when I was a kid I was very confused by those things and I know my kids were probably confused times and I had those things and I know my kids were probably confused at times when I had those things happening in our house. So lots of projects on the horizon when it comes to writing, and then I'm a contributing writer at a different magazine, so I write pretty regularly. So there's something that I never did.

Speaker 2: 52:22

I never wrote. When I was a kid I was going to say where's this love coming from of writing?

Speaker 3: 52:26

It's weird man I, I went through high school. I coasted on cliff notes and um.

Speaker 2: 52:30

And those of you who don't know what cliff notes said, go look it up. Just google it. But for our age, we know exactly what that is.

Speaker 3: 52:36

Just look for the yellow book, right, and, um, I didn't do a lot of reports. I hated writing. I did I mean I and the college was the same way uh, when I had to write reports on the job you know, ems a fire I did very minimal. And then one day it just when I started journaling, it was really was. I was like, wow, I'm not horrible at this, I'm not bad. I don't got a mega dictionary here of you know fancy words that make me, uh, seem very educated or edubacated, but, um, I loved writing it. Just, it was so great to like just get what I have in there and not saying I know everything, but just to share what I have. It was, it was a lot of fun, and so when I have something that I enjoy, these days at least, I go with it, and writing has really been it, and so I just love doing it and journaling is a good way to get started.

Speaker 2: 53:26

I want to make sure everyone heard that, because that's how I've written since 1992. I've been writing in a journal off and on since then and you know when I'm in a bullshit mood, it really helps. When I'm in a good mood it helps, and it's important to do both. One of the things I learned is to journal my happiness as well as my problems, because no one's happy all the time and no one's angry all the time, and it's a that's making sure you got that balancing act in writing I always tell people I have uh, I use word, that he was, like you know, microsoft, office or whatever.

Speaker 3: 54:02

And on word there's a, you know you can have a dictate button. So if you have a mic like I have a mic sometimes I'll just hit the dictate button, open up a word document and I'll just blab, I'll just get it out. It can keep up with you pretty good. Yes, you know, and it's just blab, just get, say what's on your mind, whatever you're thinking, just say it. And sometimes when you get that in words, you gotta get a little healing. It's gonna be cathartic, it's gonna be, it's gonna be release and maybe that starts.

Speaker 2: 54:29

Your way of writing is you're not actually writing, you're speaking words and you're putting them on something I've even encouraged some of my clients to just record a message, because you can record too and then if they want to do voice to text after that, just put a voice to text. I need, like you said, word uh, I think google, google has it now for google.

Speaker 2: 54:50

whatever they call, it's not sheets, but the other one no, I'm not trying to like, I'm not trying to plug anything, by the way, I'm just saying that it's available just about everywhere. Learn to leave messages and, um, I think that the cathartic work that goes with that is pretty amazing. And, um, you know, I can hear, I can see that it helped you. So, hey, you, hey, you know, when you get the other books out, you know I'm here, you know I'm sure that the audience would love you. So please also write to me, go to press button. You can go to my email, my Instagram, my Facebook. Just write me a note. I'm going to get you in.

Speaker 2: 55:24

Whoever wins, we'll get a book signed by Keat, and I know there's some book signings that are getting slowly in place. So, hey, if you want to go meet keith I'm not saying this because he's in front of me and he's a foot taller than me, but he's a really nice guy but also one of the things and this is, if you didn't believe me in this interview I'm telling you right now go see him speak the most authentic guy you'll hear, not that other people aren't, but he truly is, and that's a great compliment to give to you, because I really felt that from you, keith.

Speaker 3: 55:56

And I really appreciate it. What I aim to be is authentic and genuine and not really hide anything or pull any punches, and it's refreshing to hear that, so I really do appreciate it.

Speaker 2: 56:07

And besides getting the book and traumatic strength, how do people get in touch with you?

Speaker 3: 56:14

so I have a website uh, it is literally just keithhankscom and you can access. You know all the all the stuff the book, uh, the other, the writings I do it's always a work in progress, just like myself. Uh, we just started this not long ago so I'm doing most of it on my own. Anyone who knows wordpress, it's uh, if you're not technologically savvy like yours, truly, it's a bitch. So, uh, it's slowly coming together. Uh, you know there's resources this that's a cool thing. On my website.

Speaker 3: 56:42

I want to plug this real quick on my, on my website, uh is a resources tab and in that resources tab and I I just thought I got to get you in there, steve, but there's a resource tab and there's hundreds, not just first responder, but most of them are New England based, but there are national resources listed in this resource tab. There's everything from therapists to detox, to family and children's services, to support groups, to inpatient, outpatient, multiple different modalities and it's there for anyone to access. It's set up on like a spreadsheet sort of layout, very easy to follow. It has their website and phone number. So that's really one of the biggest purposes with my website was to have a point that could help people immediately, and that's to have resources. And then of course I do blogging on it and there's all the different stuff I do.

Speaker 2: 57:34

So and I've seen that sheet too and, yes, it's a very good resource. I'm going to be adding to it too and giving it to keith, so if he wants to add anything, he can use that, but that's. You know, that's great to have and I just need to do a PSA. Therapists, if a first responder calls you for therapy, respond within 48 hours. 48 hours and 30 minutes is too long, if you can, right away, because again, you're talking with a guy who's done this for a few weeks, actually years but just giving that PSA. Sorry, because you were talking about resources, but that drives me nuts. With therapists, I waited a week. They didn't respond. Really, that's shocking, right? Yeah, well, keith, I'm gonna put in the website, I'm gonna put the book on the show notes, as well as anything else that you want me to add to it. We'll talk about it off air, but, keith, I can't tell you how happy I am for you. I'm happy to book is out, I'm happy that people are going to go read it and, uh, in the giveaway, which is also going to be in the notes. So, uh, thank you, keith, I'll talk to you soon. Thanks, steve.

Speaker 2: 58:38

Well, that completes episode 155 of keith hanks. Thank you so much, really, really appreciate the interview. It was really good. Um, you know it's interesting. I recorded this after the interview and I think me and Keith spent another 15 minutes talking afterwards. You know we could have gone a lot longer, but you know he says he's going to write other books, so hopefully he'll be back on. So that's, and please just comment, write to me so that you can be in a drawing for his signed book, and I'm very happy to be offering that. So go get the book, um, and I will see you for episode one 56.

Speaker 1: 59:13

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