Attract and retain top talent in the solar industry with CPS America and EnergeiaWorks | EP211

In this episode of the Clean Power Hour, host Tim Montague brings together a panel of experts from CPS America and EnergeiaWorks to discuss proven tactics for talent acquisition and retention in the rapidly growing solar sector. The discussion kicks off with insightful introductions from the panelists, including John Drummond, senior applications engineer at CPS America, William Liuzza, the founder and CEO of EnergeiaWorks, Ryan Pasquali, a recruiting specialist at CPS America, and Matt Dolansky, the Associate Director of Customer Success at EnergeiaWorks.

The conversation delves into the challenges of recruiting top talent in an industry marked by low unemployment rates and high demand for skilled professionals. The panelists share their experiences and strategies, emphasizing the importance of creating a strong company culture built on transparency, trust, and open communication. They highlight the value of investing in employees' growth and development, fostering a sense of inclusion, and providing opportunities for advancement within the organization.

The discussion also touches on the impact of remote and hybrid work environments, the need for flexibility in hiring practices, and the importance of identifying candidates with the right "X-factor" beyond just technical skills. The panelists stressed the significance of building genuine partnerships with employees, treating them as valued members of the team, and establishing a culture of openness and honesty that extends to customer relationships as well.

Throughout the episode, the experts share real-life examples and insights from their experiences at CPS America and EnergeiaWorks, offering practical advice and best practices for companies seeking to attract and retain top talent in the solar and clean energy industries. The conversation highlights the crucial role that talent acquisition and retention play in driving the success of companies and accelerating the energy transition.

Social Media Handles
EnergeiaWorks
William Liuzza
Ryan Pasquali
Matt Dolansky
John Drummond

Transcript

William Liuzza: 0:39

Since the pandemic, obviously switch to that remote and now hybrid environment, but it's not changing anytime soon. Because if you look at how low the unemployment rate is, especially how much demand there is for solar talent, storage talent within our industry, it's really hard to enforce that go back to the opposite mentality. Because not only did the candidates say no, because they're employed right now working remote job. But you're also going to do yourself a disservice when it comes to finding local talent or getting local talent to relocate, because then you're taking a very small candidate pool and just making it even smaller. So not being open to a hybrid environment like CPS is is just, it's hurting your recruitment efforts. It's hurting you from getting that top, top talent

intro: 1:24

Are you speeding the energy transition. Here at the Clean Power Hour. Our hosts Tim Montague and John Weaver bring you the best in solar batteries and clean technologies every week. I want to go deeper into decarbonisation. We do two, we're here to help you understand and command the commercial, residential and utility, solar, wind and storage industries. So let's get to it together and we can speed the energy transition.

Tim Montague: 1:52

Welcome to the Clean Power Hour live. I'm Tim Montague, your host today on the Clean Power Hour solar workforce mastery proven tactics for talent acquisition, and retention, featuring industry experts from CPS, America and EnergeiaWorks who will share proven tactics for talent acquisition, and retention in the rapidly growing solar sector. I want to remind our listeners that you can check out all of our content at cleanpowerhour.com Please subscribe to the show there, including our YouTube channel and connect with me on LinkedIn. I love hearing from my listeners. I want to thank CPS America for sponsoring this event and the all of my content on the Clean Power Hour. Today we have a expert panel, including John Drummond, senior applications engineer with CPS America. William Liuzza. Founder and CEO of EnergeiaWorks. Ryan Pasquali recruiting specialist for CPS America. And Matt Dolansky, Associate Director of Customer Success at EnergeiaWorks, who will be answering my and your questions, you can type your questions into the q&a. So please do so. And we will answer them live here on air. We are going to start with some introductions from our panelists and then get into the heart of the matter. As our listeners know, the solar and storage industry are growing like wildfire. And unemployment in the United States is very low. It is around 4%, which is virtually zero, which means there is a war for talent. recruiting and retaining the best and brightest is a game changer. It means the difference between success and not in the solar and storage industry. So I'm looking forward to this discussion. With that. I'll hand it over to our panelists to give a brief introduction of themselves and why they care about this topic so much. Why don't we start with you, John Drummond.

John Drummond: 4:05

Yeah, thank you, Tim. Good morning. Hello, everyone. I'm John Drummond, senior applications engineer with Chint power systems. I've been with CPS for going on my ninth year now it's pretty impressive, I think in the industry for people to stick around with the same company but I cut my teeth in renewable energy way back in the late 90s. And have worked for various inverter manufacturers in various roles. I was a laboratory technician, I was a project manager. I then worked my way into product development, compliance and testing, and also Application Engineering, and then made the transition to CPS in 2015. And happy to be here. So thank you.

Tim Montague: 4:55

Thank you. And William Liuzza. Thanks,

William Liuzza: 4:58

Tim. So I'm William Liuzza. I'm the founder and CEO of EnergeiaWorks. I have 25 years and talent acquisition and recruitment. The last 14 has been with energy works where we exclusively support the renewable energy industry, both upstream and downstream markets within the industry and working with CPS since 2011, when I met the former general manager at Heacox, at SPI and in 2015. As John just mentioned, we found John Drummond introduced him to Ed at SPI and he was successfully hired going on nine years now, among many other current employees and former employees of CPS, we help them find. Over the last 14 years, we've helped over 350 companies find talent acquisition around the world. The majority of the geography that we cover is North America. But we have successful placements in the Asia Pacific market, Caribbean and Latin America as well as Western Europe. We are a 20 person company headquartered out of Jersey City, New Jersey, with a satellite office in Calgary. And that's where Matt Dolansky is based. And I'll pass it over to Matt Taylor, but about himself.

Tim Montague: 6:19

Wonderful. Matt Dolansky. Thanks.

Matt Dolansky: 6:24

Thanks, William. And thank you, Tim. Happy to be on today. As was mentioned, I'm our Associate Director of Customer Success based out of our satellite office in Calgary, Alberta. Although right now I am in sunny Houston, Texas, attending already plus Texas on behalf of the company. I'm relatively new to the clean energy space. I've been around energy production. Most of my life I grew up in the Canadian oil patch, but about two years ago, was approached to join EnergeiaWorks and have been drinking from the firehose of renewable energy ever since I had the opportunity to meet CPS really, for the first time about a year ago at CPS about to start working with Ryan last fall. And since then, it's been a really productive relationship and a great insight into the work that CPS is doing and how we can support them along with the other companies that we supported EnergeiaWorks.

Tim Montague: 7:22

Thank you. And last but not least, Ryan Pasquali.

Ryan Pasquali: 7:26

Yeah, no, it's, it's great to be here. I'm excited to kind of share the panels with you guys. I've been with CPS for about a year now, full time I was interning with them before that prior recently graduated college and I think what makes it unique to be in this in this position, I've worn a few different hats with CPS and kind of really fell into the groove with recruiting in the sense that I get to interact obviously with energy but then help build the culture and I share that passion with Brian Wagner, our president and GM now, you know, the passion for winning the passion for building a strong, you know, CPS strong, you know, culture here, I'm excited to kind of share those insights with you guys here today. And, and you know, interact with that and just keep building that brand and, and awareness and attracting more top tier talent. Creating

Tim Montague: 8:13

a culture is a theme that you're going to hear over and over today. And we're going to talk about CPS, but we're going to talk about recruiting and retaining technology talent generally, right? The Clean Energy Transition involves many, many types of professionals and trades people. And we want this to be useful to the entire spectrum. But I think it would be good to set the table a little bit because we have an amazing story in the career of John Drummond here that was facilitated by EnergeiaWork. So it's just a really nice way to just introduce this topic, because John is somebody who truly could work for one of many, many manufacturers, and, and or other, you know, he could work for a developer, he could work for any kind of a clean energy company that he wanted to. And yet he has chosen to join and now stay at CPS America for nine years, which is really a long time in the clean energy transition. The average tenure of clean energy professionals correct me if I'm wrong, William is around 18 to 24 months, it's just a couple of years. And so John does stand out in there. There are very good reasons why John is not alone at CPS. And, and, you know, obviously, it's a spectrum in terms of people, how long they've been in their careers, period. But when you joined CPS John, you are already an established clean energy professional in the inverter space. And you had serious technology expertise. And truly the world is your oyster, because solar and storage is growing so fast. There are so many new entrants, but also just massive growth within the established industry. So I don't know if you want to make any comments about my introduction of this, William, before we get into John's story,

William Liuzza: 10:16

you know, I actually would appreciate that. Thanks for handing it off. And you alluded to this earlier. So I'll set the stage a little bit in December of 2021. The unemployment rate in the US dropped below 4% For the first time in a very long time. And it has since then it has hit historic lows at three and a half percent. And some of the losses that Tim was like within our industry since then, we've really had a 0% unemployment rate. And that still remains the same. It's slightly slightly different now over the past year with the interest rate, and so residential companies that have gone out of business, but in the business to consumer side of the solar industry, which is what we focus on and what CPS focuses on, it's still a very, very low unemployment rate. So talent acquisition has been a struggle. And when you think about human capital within the solar industry, it's got to be the perfect balance of supply and demand. And since since November of 2020, we've seen that supply and demand be completely off balance, there's a lot more companies hiring, and a lot less people available. And that just makes recruiting in our industry very challenging. And what I always tell my customers, and what I always have Matt, tell our customers as well, is like we can control that recruiting piece, but what are you doing when it comes to retention? Because if even if we help you on the recruiting side, and you're not doing anything for retention, you're going to be coming back to us, you're going to be spending money and you're going to have new positions. And you're going to have your team recruited away by somebody else. So you have to focus on both sides of that equation.

Tim Montague: 12:05

Very much very much. And it's not easy. And it it's, it's, it's ironic, because when I say that, we're going to hear a lot about the culture at CPS America, you would think it would be a complete no brainer for companies to truly try to set themselves apart by having a very specific culture and going out of their way to build a culture of teamwork, for example, which is one of the themes we see it at CES, but many companies just kind of take culture for granted and let it emerge organically and are not very explicit, or intentional. So John Drummond, tell us a little bit, give us the Cliff Notes version. And by the way, John was on the show. So if you want to learn more about John's backstory, check out the Clean Power Hour cleanpowerhour.com. But John, what, what was it that enticed you to go to CPS in the first place? And stay there now for nine years? Yeah,

John Drummond: 13:07

yeah, great question. Well, I was in a position where I was ready to move from my previous employer, on to another position, you know, in the, in the renewable energy space, and I was looking at opportunities and, and interviewed with a several different places and, and then, through energy works, was able to be introduced to Ed Heacox, as we mentioned, and Casey Miller, who are kind of our founding fathers of CPS, I call them these were the two gentlemen that brought CPS to the US. The parent company, cit group, of CPS is a global in, you know, electrical component manufacturer, they manufacture inverters for Asia, Europe, several different markets, and they had not come into the North American market. So Ed in case you were the first to start that, and they essentially established the company about 2012. And it happened to be a solar power international show in San Francisco, but it used to be there every summer. And I happen to be walking the floor on the recommendation of energy works and then met, Edie and Casey and I chatted with them briefly about they happen to have a position open for an application engineer. I had that experience in my tool belt and just speaking with them, talking a little bit about the company culture, looking at the innovation of the of the products that they were manufacturing, you know, things like separable wire boxes and other features of the of the product. It seemed like how you know, while this is this is initially, you know, on the outside a great company, I think I'm going to pursue this a little more. So, a few weeks later, I had an interview, and we got a little deeper dive into, you know, kind of the inner workings of CPS and I will say, you know, we keep saying that we're going to kind of use the word culture quite a bit, but their culture there was one of transparency inclusion, not only for their employees, but I will say for their customers. They shared with me that they had a problem with one of their inverters. And rather than covering it up, they decided to be proactive. Now, this, this problem tended to be systemic among several different manufacturers. And those manufacturers were hiding it and saying, Oh, my gosh, no, this is going to be a catastrophe. Well, these guys took it head on. And, and were proactive with their customers and said, we've identified an issue, it may not be effective to your product, but we want to come out and make a change for you, you know, free of charge on our dime. And I was thinking, wow, that's, that's really tremendous to these guys to do that. And, you know, it's been that way, you know, since I joined, I was, I was hired, that, that fall. And since I joined, it's been kind of the same MO ever since. You know, just being transparent, inclusion collaborative. I mean, I can go on with a lot of different adjectives. But for me, it was the right landing place, I really felt like, you know, I was validated. There was lots of affirmation there with my talent. So it was just a really good fit.

Tim Montague: 16:52

I love that piece, the transparency piece. And this goes for companies and individuals, right. And so I'm curious, William, or, Matt, if either of you have some comments about when you are recruiting for, obviously, you're working with dozens and dozens of different clean energy companies. But I would love to hear what is it that you're looking for in candidates when you're meeting these people for the first time? And is there something that you know, to look for in people when you're recruiting for CPS?

Matt Dolansky: 17:31

Yeah, happy to jump in there, Tim? And that's a that's a great question. And I, the first step is that we are able to act as an extension of CPS out into the marketplace and represent that culture to potential candidates. And when we're starting to have those conversations with candidates, it's not just about walking through their resume, you know, telling you the bullet points you have on there, and so many words, it's let's get in between the lines, what are you really looking for, what is it that you think you can bring to a company, and what is important for you to find in a company, you may have all the skill sets in the world that check off every single box, but there's that separate checklist as well. But we want to make sure that there's that firm alignment. And, you know, prior to being in professional recruitment, I spent some time in post secondary recruitment. And something I would always say to students that that really carries over to the professional space, as well as we want to make sure that the your, we want to make sure that you're not just a fit for the company, but the company is a fit for you. If that fit isn't there, if that alignment isn't there, you're setting yourself up for failure, essentially, from day one of introducing the candidate to the client.

Tim Montague: 18:44

Yeah, this is a little bit of a conundrum. And one of the things I served as a recruiter for five years, both in creative and technology. And it's you never want a square peg in a round hole scenario, even though a person may check off some key boxes in terms of skill sets or background that an employer is looking for. It's just never going to turn out well, if you're trying to force an issue. By the same token, I think sometimes companies can be very closed minded about who they will consider hiring. The the example that rears its head time and time again, is that companies want candidates to have very specific experience, or experiences and skill sets. And I'm like, you are missing the boat. He want people who are eager to learn and bring us a variety of skills. And it would be great if they knew your industry inside and out. That would be wonderful. But please consider people who don't necessarily come with the checklist entirely checked off, but who come instead with some dynamic qualities that are going to serve you in so many ways down the line and are able to grow and evolve with you as the company grows. This is a very fast evolving industry. And so all of us have to be fleet of foot, both the companies and the employees. It's a two way street. Because the only change the only constant is change. So I don't know Ryan or William if either of you have comments about what we've touched on here so far.

Ryan Pasquali: 20:38

Yeah, I mean, I'd love to hop in real quick. I mean, I think you just kind of the nail on the head there for CPS America. I mean, I've got the privilege obviously work with Brian Wagner and William and Matt, you know, we look for people that are, you know, bring that, quote, X Factor, you know, it's not always all about the skills and your education. And there's a lot that goes into the, quote unquote, perfect candidate. And I think for us, it it is, you know, how can you grow with us, you know, we're 103 104 People at the moment, we've hired 20, something 20 or 30 people, this first quarter, and going into end of q4 last year, in total. And I think last year, we had 90%, retention. So just the overall growth and culture, we're trying to build the winning mentality, the people who bring on we're trying to reiterate that, you know, throughout the company and organization, and And, John, the fact you've been with us for nine years. Well, before my time, it's amazing to hear your perspective on on what you're seeing and how it's been consistent. But yeah, I love what you said about kind of that X factor. And, you know, it's not all about just pure skills, pure qualifications, it's, it's the person that we bring in Matt, I know we've worked a ton together and that aspect of it, and it's just exciting to kind of hear all that being put together and, and just kind of come together there.

Tim Montague: 21:58

And I would venture that that's not easy to identify. And this is why there is an industry for recruiters, right? You guys have to figure out how to identify that X factor. And I'm curious, Matt, and William, what comments you have about how do you figure out who has what X Factor or not? Yeah, that's

William Liuzza: 22:20

a good question. And I'll say that, obviously, CPS has done a great job of both the recruitment and the retention side, right. But, Matt, you've managed 40 accounts over the last two years. John talked about the integrity that CPS has with their product and their customers, and the transparency that the company has as well. But in addition to those two things, what else do you think CPS has that helps them with that retention and the recruiting piece that you haven't seen what their other customers?

Matt Dolansky: 22:54

What's made this such a successful partnership, right on the gate is transparency with us to be and trust in us to be that extension of CPS into the marketplace. But it's also been a very organic process. I frequently joke that there are days where I speak with Ryan more than I speak with my own fiance. But it's really been a successful partnership, because there's been that dialogue between us. And I know exactly how he is going to present the company to our candidates. And I know that I can trust to put our candidates in front of him and with anyone else in the room at CPS because the message is going to be so consistent. The culture is such that every person at CPS America that our candidates have spoken to have gotten the same message throughout the interview process. And that's something that our candidates have come back to us and said, it's refreshing to hear from each step in the company from our first introduction with Ryan as the recruitment specialist through to a hiring manager through to maybe some of the team members I may be working with. And having that consistency of message and culture across the organization. It builds a culture of trust before the candidate is even hired in the end ends up becoming an employee. And then when we've checked it with candidates who we've successfully placed at CPS, they'll come back and say, you know, it wasn't just a facade to get me in the door to get me to put my name on that dotted line. It really is an organizational belief and having that transparency and having pride in that culture of wellness and inclusivity at CPS America.

Tim Montague: 24:27

I love it that you are so clear that you are partners with one another EnergeiaWorks in CPS America, and this is also something that I think that differentiates CPS America, it it sees itself as part of a network of relationships. And many companies see business in a more transactional way. And CPS is very relational. It is building relationships and partnerships with its customers with its vendors. And it almost feels awkward to use the word vendor because I know that CPS doesn't see those companies that way they see them as partners. Being on the same team ultimately, of getting the energy transition done and growing together and growing successfully. We all have challenges in the energy transition. One of them is recruiting and retaining top talent but there are a myriad of other challenges. And so if we can find ways To be successful, it's good for it's good for the company. And it's good for the employees when things worked out, and employees stick around, it's just much more efficient, right? A company pours a lot of resources into new employees. And for them to end up walking away, you know, after just a couple of years is a huge loss. And, and so, if you're serious about growing a long term successful company, you have to be very, very serious about retaining top talent, you have to be able to get them on board. But more importantly, I think you have to retain them. I don't know if, if any of our panelists want to comment more about what companies can do to successfully retain not just average performers, but top performers. Yeah,

Ryan Pasquali: 26:31

I mean, I think And, John, if you want to jump in here, too, at some point, you know, for me, I a title that's been thrown around kind of unofficially is that of like a productivity coach and people operations. And I think the the culture we're trying to build, the aspect we're trying to build yours is I want to, once I bring someone on, it's, it's, that's step one, as you touched on a few times, it's it, that's just kind of the start of the process. And it's the six to nine month period, thereafter, where I'm enabling them in their role helping remove any kind of pain points, you know, a lot of the company is remote. They're not in office with me or an office with John in Pleasanton. They can be in in Oklahoma, or Montana or all over the place, right? So how do we bring that human interaction, that personal touch there, you know, bring him out to meet people in the company. And I think just having them feel connected to the, the company and the people around them are making them feel supported. And, and again, they enabled to carry out their job and, and connect it to the rest of the company, I think, is a huge aspect of that. And, and that's, I think one of the biggest aspects of retaining employees is that connection, feeling to the rest of the company.

John Drummond: 27:46

I'll echo that. You know, when we bring on somebody, we do a lot of training, as you mentioned, mentoring and so forth. But it's, it's more than that it's inclusion and making them feel like they're valued. And that they also have opportunity here with us. opportunity for growth. And there has been several people that have joined. And, you know, I'll use my manager now as an example. And Tom Patton, he started about six years ago as a business development engineer, and became an Application Engineer and then became a manager, and now he's the director of of products, and applications engineering. And, I mean, it's an amazing story for him. And it's almost like, I'm proud of him, because I remember him coming aboard and training and bringing him on. But, you know, it's not only training in terms of retention, it's, it's, you know, I'll go back to the inclusion and the affirmation. It's the team building aspect. And CBS does a really great job of that. We do it at every trade show, you know, we often go to these trade shows, but we do. You know, our own events, where we work together, bring everybody together, we often have motivational speakers that come that, you know, get us all on the same page, just kind of building that internal relationship. I mean, you think about the people you work with, and Matt mentioned, you know, even his conversations with Ryan are more than he talks to you with his fiancee. But, you know, it's, it's like you spend more time with these people than you do at home. So you want to be sure that they're happy, and that they are included, and they feel valued that they're contributing. So that whole aspect is another part of what I really liked about CBS. I felt that from day one for me, all the way through. And, you know, and we've had some growing pains through the years, but right now we're on a big growth spurt. We're also developing a lot of new products. So we have have to have a team to support that. So as you know, as Ryan mentioned, we we hired 20 new people, but it's not just hiring, it's also the onboarding and doing the things that we can retain this talent and keep them online and allow them growth within the company opportunities. So that's, I think, a big, big piece of it. You said Go ahead.

Ryan Pasquali: 30:27

I'll just I'll just point out just being genuine. You know, I think as obvious as that might sound, I think nowadays, and that's like I think Mac and echo two is Me being genuine and I care about everyone I bring on like, I'm in Ari plus Houston today to with Matt, all I'm excited to see one of our new employees, two of our new employees that are down here, like just that genuine aspect of, you know, caring about the people caring about our new employees how they're doing. I think unfortunately, that's not seen a ton of companies nowadays. And I think CPS is one of the most genuine companies that you will find. And I think that that speaks a lot to what we're trying to do here for sure.

Tim Montague: 31:06

You said something, Ryan, about your employees, many of them being remote. And this is a double edge employees generally want flexibility from the employer on remote work. Many employees want to be fully remote or in a hybrid situation. But there is a downside to that. And I'm curious if if you guys any of you can comment on what you see CPS doing or others to cross that bridge, so to speak, because creating a culture takes face time. It takes we are we are very tribal animals, we humans, we have to get to know one another. Before we can trust one another and be vulnerable. You know, this culture of transparency is awesome, right? But it doesn't come naturally. Sometimes we've learned as as younger people or professionals to hide our mistakes and not share them or, you know, confront them face on so to speak. So what, what can or what does CPS do? And what can others or are others doing to enhance this phenomenon of, of the hybrid work life that Americans have gotten so used to? Yeah,

Ryan Pasquali: 32:24

I think, you know, CPS, whenever we win, which we're very, we're very fortunate to be a very winning company, and, and, and be very successful, but bringing people together where it's in the queue, enter the quarters, or big events like already plus Anaheim coming up this year in our solar earlier this year, getting 5060 7080 members of our team, all in one location, having those two or three days or a day or two prior to the event, day two after to get everyone together, celebrate the win from the end of that year, or closing of a quarter success there and feeling that all as a team is huge. We're sitting Napa Valley, as a as a sales training and Leadership Summit, where we just kind of get together and it's it's doubly the training. But then there's all the the team events around that, that we build specifically to help create that culture in that face to face. It's not an everyday thing where you're constantly in office. Sure. But it's getting everyone together to align and mentality, celebrate the wins of the company, and then build that together to you know, together and nothing really replace that I don't think I don't think we'll ever fully get away from that where it's pure remote. I think we find people want to be together in those couple of days and celebrate that. And then that kind of jumpstarts everyone else where they then feel, again empowered and invigorated to continue that down for the rest of the company.

William Liuzza: 33:50

Yeah, and I'll jump in there. Since the pandemic, obviously switch to that remote and now hybrid environment, but it's not changing anytime soon. Because if you look at how low the unemployment rate is, especially how much demand there is for solar talent and storage talent within our industry, it's really hard to enforce that go back to the office mentality. Because not only do the candidates say no, because they're employed right now working a remote job. But you're also going to do yourself a disservice when it comes to finding local talent or getting local talent to relocate, because then you're taking a very small candidate pool, and just making it even smaller. So not being open to a hybrid environment like CPS is is just, it's hurting your recruitment efforts. It's hurting you from getting that top. Top talent.

Matt Dolansky: 34:39

Yeah, just to to add on there. And you asked the question, Tim, about building culture in in a remote and hybrid environment. It's a challenge. I've been in my professional career now for about 10 years. I've even pre pandemic was lucky enough to be remote and working from home. But then there were times where I you know, it did feel a little isolation that Stephen, and it's a challenge we face even at EnergeiaWorks with our team spread out across North America. I think for companies to be successful, they have to avoid a couple of pitfalls. They need to accept that you can't be all things to all people, because your team is going to be your team's inherent strength is in their differences and what they can bring to your company. So by trying to provide a one size fits all solution to building culture to those employees, it's just it's never going to work. And it's a bit of a fool's errand to try and try and do it out of the gate. I think the other thing is it To avoid as making assumptions about what your employees need in terms of culture in a remote or hybrid environment, particularly remote, where you may not be seeing these people face to face for, you know, weeks or months at a time. It's fantastic. And I think CBS has done a phenomenal job at bringing their teams together at the events that Ryan mentioned. But for companies who that's not an option for going to your employees and saying, what is it that you need, what can we provide to you, sometimes you will get, you know, a little bit of hesitancy or employees may not feel comfortable, and really being honest about what they need. But that comes back to establishing a strong culture of trust and authenticity and transparency right out of the gate. So they are comfortable telling you, this is what I would like or these are the types of events or connections that I would like to have with my company and with my colleagues. The

Tim Montague: 36:29

Clean Power Hour is brought to you by CPS America, the maker of North America's number one three phase string inverter with over six gigawatts shipped in the US. The CPS America product lineup includes three phase string inverters ranging from 25 to 275, kW, their flagship inverter, the CPS, 250 to 75 is designed to work with solar plants ranging from two megawatts to two gigawatts, the 250 to 75 pairs well, with CPS, America's exceptional data communication controls and energy storage solutions, go to chintpowersystems.com. To find out more, it really is a fine line that we all have to walk. Because even though unemployment is very low, which means that the employee has more leverage, so to speak. You also, as an employee have to remember that you're part of an organization part of a team, that if you don't do certain things that are socially acceptable or operate in certain ways, it's going to be disruptive, and it's and it's going to hurt your career. So it's not like employees have carte blanche there's still very much a, a burden on the employee to be a good employee. And maybe the definition of that has Abdun flowed over the years. I don't know, John, if you have any thoughts about that, how are things different today? You know, in the market than they were nine years ago, when you went to CPS, obviously, the market has changed dramatically, it is growing much faster. But that aside, how do you think things have changed? Well,

John Drummond: 38:22

you know, it, definitely the remote aspect. Everyone used to report to an office, you know, way back when and independent of what your job role was, if you needed to be at that site or not, you report it to the office. And that seemed to change. You know, as well, you mentioned during the pandemic and and afterwards into a hybrid role. But you know, that aspect is much different now, where people are wanting, you know, candidates are wanting to pick and choose, you know, like, like Matt was saying, oh, I want to be remote. You know, that is not always the best option. We when we hire even when people are remote, we bring them in, you know, for training, there might be a week or two weeks of onboarding process. And then even afterwards, there might be, hey, can you come into the office one or two days a week, you know, just to make sure we're on the same page, we're collaborating, we're bringing you up to speed. And we're not just you know, relying on you remote and again, it's, it's, it's that trust and integrity aspect, but also just making sure that they're comfortable that they're not just being left, you know, to their own devices, essentially, by working remotely. that I see as a big change, you know, the, the aspect of reporting to an office versus the option to do hybrid or solely remote. That's a big one.

Tim Montague: 39:54

One of the things that, you know, is on a lot of people's minds in the solar industry is how markets ebb and flow. One of our listeners commented about, you know, nem 3.0, devastating the residential solar market, and they asked if this is causing an influx of employees in other markets and certainly, you know, some of those, the statistic I that sticks in my mind is like 13,000 residential solar workers are now looking for opportunity elsewhere. Of course, some of them are going to find their way to other places. I mean, California is a lovely place to live in many respects. It has water for climate, it's a very dynamic technology, forward economy, the solar industry is more mature there than anywhere else in the US, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But the cost of living is very high. And the traffic is horrible in some of the major metros. There, there is a downside. But what are some of the trends that, you know, the industry is experiencing? And that employers or candidates can lean into, so to speak to benefit themselves? And I would I mean, I certainly William has a very good purview of this. But if others have comments, yeah,

William Liuzza: 41:21

I mean, 9.9 3.0 is not a very favorable situation in California, you put that together with the high interest rates, and it really makes residential solar. The market in California is just not good right now. And there's other markets that are affecting it that are dealing with gnome 3.0 because of the interest rates. So I think purchasing some residential solar systems that that industry is getting hurt. But sometimes those people that business to consumer model doesn't always directly translate to a b2b market like in the CNI, the community solar in the utility scale space. So some of those people just don't have the same skill sets to be reemployed or even upskilled, into the b2b side of solar. So I think it's going to be difficult to for most of those people to make those transitions. We have seen some of them. You know, there are some products, companies like CPS in particular, and others that do have like a residential product that maybe they could transit transition into. But if you look at a lot of people that were affected by the layoffs in California, in particular in the residential solar space, they're the salespeople that canvassers, doing PV design work, all the light, light voltage stuff. So I don't know if a lot of those people can be employed into the larger scale solar systems. But that maybe you have a different view on that than I do.

Matt Dolansky: 42:52

No, I would, I would agree largely with what you said there, William. The challenge and that challenge is really on the candidate side of things. We can preach rescaling and upskilling to our to employers and provide those options. Hopefully, the market will provide those options for candidates. But due to the it kind of comes back to the checklist conversation we were having earlier, where there are some non negotiable boxes on that checklist for employers, and a lot of it is to do with with scale and with experience at scale. And

William Liuzza: 43:27

kind of the second part of that question, Matt is on that q&a. Question is, have we seen an influx of those residential candidates coming in? Or do you think they're trying to find work elsewhere outside of like, the solar industry, maybe maybe they have a tainted view now of what's going on because of them? 3.0 and the interest rate?

Matt Dolansky: 43:45

We have we have seen some of that we, in our current work, haven't seen a huge influx of the presidential candidates. Yes, it may be yet to come as an entry point oh continues to take effect. In speaking with candidates that have left the residential space, I am harkens back a little bit to my roots in conventional power generation where they're looking to get off the roller coaster, they're they're sick of the boom and bust and wants something a little bit more stable. And stability is something that candidates not just from the residential side of things, but from all technologies all scales are looking for. And that again, is something that CPS springs with a lot of success in their attraction and retention of talent is unfair, providing a level of stability for potential employees to join the organization.

Tim Montague: 44:41

I'm glad you mentioned the solar coaster, there is a boom and bust phenomenon in the solar industry, which tends to be geographically regional markets, get programs, incentives and a boom and then those incentives fade away or used up phased out for various reasons and there can be a bust and you know net metering is one of these things right you need a few things to make a robust market. And so in some ways the solar industry is unique in that regard. In other ways, it is typical of technology, right like Telecom, telecom boomed and then telecom busted because the market basically got saturated right. We had all of the infrastructure that we needed for everyone to have cell cellphone. And so there wasn't this fast and furious growth of the telecom industry. And people just went to other industries. And in many ways, you know, solar is no different. Eventually, solar will mature to a point where it, it, it doesn't grow the way it's growing. But that's 30 years away, frankly. But the boom, and the bust is just kind of part and parcel. And so if you're going to be a dyed in the wool, solar and storage professional, you're going to have to put up with a certain amount of that boom and bust and regional, regional markets that is kind of part of our industry, in the way that we do clean energy in, in the United States. Certainly, right. It's a state by state phenomenon generally. And while California is having its troubles, you know, other places are in full boom mode, right? You go to Texas, or are here in the Midwest, Illinois, and Minnesota or out east, New York, and Massachusetts, in New Jersey. And those are some of the prime markets. But so if you're, if you're looking for work in the solar industry, coming from another industry, just go to a big solar companies website and look at where they're operating a sun run, for example, right. And you'll see a map with 20 states that they're focused on, and those are the good solar states. Our panelists here today are covering the entire country. You know, CPS has offices in New Jersey, in Texas, and in California. And energy works. While it's headquartered in New Jersey, I'm venturing that you have employees in many, many places, right, William? We do. Yes. So anyway, I don't know if we don't need to belabor this this point too much. But, you know, in terms of company's abilities to recruit and retain top talent, you know, in our last few minutes together, I guess I'd like us to just come back to home on that and pinpoint a few key things, I've heard some themes that I just want to reiterate, transparency, integrity, trust, partnership, and investing in one another, like when when an employee goes to a company, the company is investing in that employee, and vice versa, the employee is investing investing in the future of the company. And when the company really sees it that way, as a two way partnership, I think good things happen. And growth emerges, and loyalty emerges. And if the company is loyal to its employees, you will get loyalty from the employees to the company. So what What all do you have to say about what are the best practices that our audience and our and our listeners can take away from this?

Ryan Pasquali: 48:47

I mean, I think for us, um, you know, it's, like you said, and transparency, a loyalty aspect, like, I think energy, you guys have worked with us to kind of have this pairing where it's, we want our, our employees to want to work with us, like, we want to encourage you to grow within us, like our first aspect, whenever we post a role is to hire internally, right and give those growth opportunities to give that, that that structure to where you're not just pigeon holed into, you know, the one roll you applied for and you got brought in for that we want to offer those growth opportunities, give you that, that that foundational aspect to build your career within CPS. And until that point, well, you won't just hire to hire like we never hired to fill a role this and do it. It's always to find the right person that we feel, you know, wants to be with CPS long term can can give just as much into us as we want to give into you and help you grow professionally develop you. So it's a very, like you said, a very two way street. And that's a culture and mindset that we embrace here. And we're excited to partner with energy to continue that and, and get that message out. Because I don't think that that's necessarily common nowadays. Unfortunately, and I think it's something that we're trying to do that's relatively unique and, and we're happy to kind of continue to expand that with with everyone.

William Liuzza: 50:13

Thanks, Ryan. And I'll jump in there for a minute, Tim. You know, Ryan talks a lot about that transparency and that honesty and the integrity that CPS has. And I think the reason that relationship with energy works works so well is because we share we share similar core values and similar culture. I always enjoy it when I'm out at a conference and tradeshow and I get to see CPS in action dealing with her Customers and I'll give you a really good example of that. Last month, I was in Philadelphia for solar and storage live. And a CPS customer came over to the booth and was talking with Brian Wagner and Brian Baxter. And Brian Baxter is the Sales Director for the East Coast. And you can just tell immediately that there was a trust factor. And the customer was telling Brian about any project that he's looking to do. And Brian Baxter was like, Well, yeah, we could do it with this product. But guess what, we have a new product that's coming out, that's gonna work a lot better. And here's how that book. And there was no doubt in that customer's mind that Brian was honest, and telling him about the best solution, not just trying to sell him another product. And that's a difference in having, having those core values and having that transparency, not only with your employees, but also with your customers as well. So you're not just selling a product, you have that trust factor. And

Tim Montague: 51:32

that's not easy, because there's a lot of pressure on companies to grow and sell. Right. But providing the best solution is certainly going to create the best long term relationship. What are your thoughts, John?

John Drummond: 51:46

Yeah, exactly. I'll echo what William said, I mean, building those partnerships we did, we're not just selling inverters, you know, we want to establish a relationship with you so that you are a returning customer, and we build that relationship so we can win together, you know, your next project, you know, we would hope that you would use CBS inverters. If we have a new product that, you know, we're unveiling, we hope that you would consider using that it may benefit you in a way, you know, less inverters, big power, greater power level, more features, balanced system equipment that could complement it. Again, it's back to that partnership and collaboration. And I don't want to beat a dead horse, but culture integrity trust, you know, it's, it's not just internal from employee to employee, but it's business to business. It's that partnership.

Tim Montague: 52:40

I would love to get any other closing comments or thoughts. From our panelists, I want to thank all of our listeners for being here, check out all of our content at cleanpowerhour.com. But this is an exciting time in the energy transition, we are going to 10x the solar industry in the next 30 years. It is in some ways, unimaginable how much growth is going on. And this means opportunity for people and companies. It's a both and if you play your cards, right. And, you know, for example, on the employee side, encouraging or going after certifications is I think very, very important. NABCEP certification in the solar industry, for example, is a great thing. And companies should support their employees in pursuing that certification. Because what it does is it creates a floor of general knowledge and capabilities that we all have, which is going to help us provide more consistent and better solutions to the market. Right. In any fast growing industry, there is a certain amount of a gold rush going on, right. And you see this in the popular press right that some solar companies have created a bad name for the solar industry by not treating consumers very well. And that's just the nature of any fast growing industry, there is a certain gold rush. But What all do you have to say in your closing comments about building a sustainable industry? Um,

Ryan Pasquali: 54:22

I think you know, for CPS, we've got a very strong history of winning very strong history of just being consistent in great customer service. You know, I think that the tie back to this this webinar, I think it starts all with the employees and the internal team, the the culture we bring here, the attitude that we have team members, a team member, is what translates to that great customer service, that great interaction out there in the industry and allows us to be consistently, you know, one of the top companies in the industry, no more market share for all these years. And I think that it begins with who we hire, and it begins with the culture we instill in them and what motivates them. One one to one and I'm excited to see what the future holds with energy and who we can bring in continue to grow the company and the culture and, and how we can continue improving this industry. Yet I'll

Matt Dolansky: 55:17

jump in with some, some final thoughts just on attracting top talent, bringing it back around you we chatted about the checklist. You do need to have some flexibility on that checklist to attract that to attract that top talent and to whether that's you know, understanding that they may not check every single box but they bring that dynamic dynamicism to to the The role to your organization and understanding the candidate from very much a three, a 360 picture of who they are, and not just who they are on a piece of paper that lists their curriculum vitae, you want to understand and have a conversation with them about, okay, maybe you're not, maybe you don't have exactly 100% of the things that we're looking for when we hired this role. But you had some things that we didn't consider. And that's what we those are the types of personality traits or work experience or skills that we want to bring into our company that is going to help us weather the storm and whether those boom bust cycles, we see you as a valued partner in that. And we want to add that to our organization. And then once you have them in the organization to retain them, continue delivering on that initial message and that initial value offering to them as an employee. That's where the trust piece comes in. That's where the transparency piece comes in. When we hear candidates that are looking to make a move, sometimes it's you know, what you would expect, it's, you know, I'd like to make a little bit more money, or I feel like I've hit my ceiling here. But in other times, we'll hear from candidates, particularly those who may not have a particularly long stint on their resume with this with our current organization that, you know, I was brought in, I was sold a certain bill of goods, and then when upon arrival discovered that was not the case. I don't know that I can trust my organization to ever deliver on that. So I want to go to an organization that will and

William Liuzza: 57:04

echoing what Matt said, I mean, because there's such a demand for talent in our industry and our husband for almost four years. Now. Sometimes it's refreshing to get somebody that thinks different. You know, we're starting to see companies that come to us say, hey, we have all commercial solar experts, we want somebody that thinks outside of the commercial solar world, because we're all thinking the same. So help us find somebody that hasn't worked at an industry. And we can upskill them on what they don't know about solar. So I think that's a refreshing and we're starting to see that more and more these days.

Tim Montague: 57:39

I love that theme. Be more flexible, be more open minded, focus on The X Factor. I also love that expressions. Thank you, Ryan. John Drummond any final comments, I'll

John Drummond: 57:52

just say, you know, what Ryan shared and both what Matt shared about building the internal team first, you know, and setting the right expectations for the client when they are job hunting. And then once they hire, you know, making sure that they are happy in their role and that, that their support their contribution will support our customers that we can, you know, build the internal relationships employee to employee but back again to this to business that, you know, we care about are what our customers are purchasing their projects, you know, and want to support them in every way and, and and hope that the candidates that we're finding will strive to that. So,

Tim Montague: 58:42

well said, Well, I want to thank our panelists. John Drummond, senior applications engineer with CPS America, William Liuzza, recruiting specialists, sorry, founder and CEO of EnergeiaWorks. Ryan Pasquali recruiting specialists for CBS America. And Matt olanski, Associate Director of Customer Success at EnergeiaWorks, you all have really made substantive contributions to this conversation. Thank you so much. Thank you to all our listeners who are here live. And on the recorded session, check out all of our content at cleanpowerhour.com. Go to the events tab for upcoming webinars. And reach out to me on LinkedIn. I love connecting with my listeners. And I want to thank again, CPS America for sponsoring this content. With that, I will say I'm Tim Montague, let's grow solar and storage. Thank you all so much. Have a great day. Hey, listeners. This is Tim, I want to give a shout out to all of you. I do this for you twice a week. Thank you for being here. Thank you for giving us your time. I really appreciate you and what you're all about. You are part and parcel of the energy transition whether you're an energy professional today, or an aspiring energy professional. So thank you. I want to let you know that the Clean Power Hour has launched a listener survey. And it would mean so much to me. If you would go to clean power hour.com click on the About Us link right there on the main navigation that takes you to the about page and you'll see a big graphic listener survey just click on that graphic and it takes just a couple of minutes. If you fill out the survey, I will send you a lovely baseball cap with our logo on it. The other thing I want Our listeners to know is that this podcast is made possible by corporate sponsors. We have chin power systems, the leading three phase string inverter manufacturer in North America. So check out CPS America. But we are very actively looking for additional support to make this show work. And you see here our media kit. With all the sponsor benefits and statistics about the show, you know, we're dropping two episodes a week. We have now over 320,000 downloads on YouTube. And we're getting about 45,000 downloads per month. So this is a great way to bring your brand to our listeners and our listeners are decision makers in clean energy. This includes projects executives, engineers, finance, project management, and many other professionals who are making decisions about and developing, designing, installing and making possible clean energy projects. So check out cleanpowerhour.com both our listener survey on the about us and our media kit and become a sponsor today. Thank you so much. Let's go solar and storage