Episode #12 How One Mothers Fight For Her Family Turned Into A Sustainable Fashion Brand To Help Save The Planet And Her Family

Inside this episode Tracy Strandness of Barefoot Eco Outfitters opens up about the sustainable fashion industry. The pros and cons the industry has to offer and why the pros far outweigh the cons. She shares the intimate details about her very personal encounter with domestic abuse. How through the painful process she managed to strengthen her relationship with her children through nature. How the entire ordeal lead her and her children to start a sustainable fashion line. We both open up to each other about our own journey as survivors and how therapy, reflection and determination has lead us both to unforeseen positions of strength.

If you are triggered by conversations about domestic abuse or sexual assault please hold off on listening to this episode until you're are ready.

Tracy and Barefoot Eco Outfitters can be found at :

Website - https://barefooteco.com

Instagram - Barefootecooutfitters  https://www.instagram.com/barefootecooutfitters/

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/BarefootEcoOutfitters

Twitter - @BFecooutfitters  https://twitter.com/BFecooutfitters

Etsy - https://www.etsy.com/shop/BarefootEcoOutfitter?ref=seller-platform-mcnav


If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a rating or review and follow us on whatever app you prefer to listen on. Share Share Share with anyone you believe could find this episode helpful.

Check out http://www.dereknielsen.com/listen/ for more episodes with fascinating people around the world trying to make an actual change. 

Transcript

Unknown: 0:05

Welcome back to The Art of actual change. I'm your host, Derek Nielsen, former health specialists turned wildlife conservation fine art photographer. Through my many travels around the world, I've met some people who are doing some fascinating work outside themselves to make this planet a better place to live. Each episode I'll be bringing you these people, letting them tell their stories. And hopefully, you'll find inspiration in these stories so that you can go out and make an actual change in your world or the world around you. Gandhi once said, what we are doing to the forests of the world is put in mind a reflection of what we are doing to ourselves and to one another. And so Adams once said, It is horrifying that we have to fight our own government to save the environment. Inside that is episode with Tracy strand as we dive into what is eco fashion, how she got the inspiration for barefoot eco Outfitters. We also dive into some really personal things about domestic violence, her fight for survival, my connection with her as a survivor of my own abuse, sexual assault. And so either those are triggers for you, please, maybe this isn't the episode for you. But if it is, or you can find inspiration, and welcome you in safe space, enjoy the episode. I'm so thrilled to have this conversation with Tracy survivors and people who are doing things that are really inspiring other people taking our our strength and turning it into really good for the world. Please enjoy, leave comments. We'd love to hear all your thoughts about eco fashion. And then the different struggles that both of us had to overcome and how it's united to complete strangers. And I really hope you enjoyed the episode Welcome back to The Art of actual change everyone. I have an incredible guest today I have Tracy strangeness of barefoot eco Outfitters, I discovered Tracee on Instagram was something that I was scrolling through. I think we actually got introduced originally from a mutual friend of ours on Instagram, I think I had done a Sunday spotlight with her. And maybe that's how we originally got connected. She was highlighting my work, but we've kind of stayed in touch. And the other day, I was just simply typing in the search on Instagram, sustainable fashion, and your brand popped up on my feed. And it was something that I am I'm getting deeper involved with myself. And I thought I wanted to reach out to her and talk to her about barefoot eco Outfitters. So, Tracy, welcome to the show. Thank you. I'm so happy to be here. Yeah, we're happy to have you. And I know that this is something that the is kind of catching on more and more in, maybe you see because it's your company. But I see it in my own circles of people, people who have talked about, I was just in Manhattan doing an art show with one of my other clients. And she's really involved with sustainable fashion. But there was a few other people that were mentioning this term sustainable fashion and eco fashion and things like that. So I thought it would be a great fit for what we're doing here. And so can you tell me a little bit about eco, barefoot eco Outfitters? So yeah. Um, so, um, that's like a, you know, where do you start thing, and we'll kind of get to the other project. So, like, eco fashion, it's kind of interesting to hear you talk about somebody who's kind of coming into it and, you know, in your perspective, that people are talking about it more, which is kind of like, Oh, that's awesome, you know, because, you know, you I, I do work in a vacuum in a sense, you know, and so, and kind of wondering, is the message getting out, but for me, it was all part of our mission to honor nature for the healing and respite and refuge that it brought to us from our life circumstances. And, and so basically, it was my business, it was, uh, you know, want to start a social enterprise with the focus being the mission, you know, which is to, you know, environmental conservation and, and the vehicle. I just felt like, this would be a good vehicle, it's something where, you know, you know, I feel like, life's best moments are lived in a T shirt. relaxed and yeah. So and I just think in I felt like, you know, getting, if I could relate to people, emotionally with our, like, designs that kind of spurred happy memories of, you know, going to campus, a kid or camping with your family or your just some kind of outdoor experience that you can, oh, that, you know, makes you feel happy and then and connect people with nature, you know, through that. Absolutely had to be that the products were earth friendly, right? I mean, this is the thing that kind of, you know, you butt up against sometimes people will have an earth friendly message on their shirt, but those are it's really are not earth friendly. And it's totally the most polluting industry, the clothing industry, it's so it's, so it's kind of like, you know, approaching it cautiously that, you know, I don't want to be part of the problem, I want it, but I felt like it's an opportunity to educate people to let people know, you can make clothes out, and you know, they feel way better. It's you don't have to worry about, you know, poisoning the workers, you don't have to worry about, you know, you know, the environmental issues and things like that, you know, there's ways to, you know, mitigate and create really, you know, wonderful fashion with a whole lot of different materials. So, so it was kind of as the educational point of view. And then, you know, the feeling of the conservation, so I just kind of felt like, you know, that's the route we want to go and then just doing all the research about it was kind of like, its immense. And there's so much to know, and we just kind of fell in love with the idea of getting the word out about that, and surprising people, and kind of letting them know their options. Yeah. When did this idea come about how long ago? So? Actually, originally, um, okay. Originally, when we first came out of the time that we'll talk about, yeah, well, so I want at that time, I was kind of really focused on like, health and wellness and being, you know, active and taking care of yourself, because that also helped kind of saved my life, honestly, during the time we were going in. So my first like, foray into this was an eco friendly with more of like, a sports focus, you know, um, so that's kind of how I started out, but I've been an athlete my whole life. But as I've, you know, kind of morphed into that it wasn't like, that wasn't like, my passion. It's not my passion and be an activist, but not like, you know, competition and things like that. Just like, this just doesn't resonate with me anymore. And so, my daughter and I were on Mount Rainier, hiking, and it was a glorious day, Bluebird, Sky Crystaline air, everything was just like, so perfect. And we were just like, that's kind of our special go to places not that far from here. And yeah, and so we're just like, like, Why? Why am I not doing this is where I spend all my time. Like, this needs to be our actual focus for the quality. It was always about eco friendly clothing was always about giving back, you know, to conservation. But it didn't I didn't line up somehow. That's how the entrepreneurial journey goes, though. Right? I mean, you started out and then you kind of like put in those, like, everything just kind of went Oh, yeah, you know, and so that that was kind of the moment like, this is our, this is our happy place. This is what we do this what we live and breathe. So then we just focused it into being you know, you know, outdoors themed and kind of promoting that, because that was honestly where we spend our time. So, yeah, yeah, that's how it happens. I mean, from for, like, just like, my own journey in this in my photography field was I picked up a camera out of boredom. And it was fun. And then I tinker with it. And then I fell in love with travel. And then I was like, I brought a camera along, and I started taking pretty pictures. But then the more I saw things, like I couldn't turn my back to what I was seeing, and environmental issues and human rights things. And I started photographing those things. And I say, Wow, that's some of the stuff is really, really beautiful. And it morphed into something that I'd never ever predicted would become my life or my, my life calling as you know, a lot of people say like, oftentimes they say, life calling finds you. Yeah, you know, and you don't even realize when it's coming, but when it hits you, you just it's like that moment on top of the mountain. You're like, This is it? Yeah, that's so cool. Your story that way. I love that. It just that found you. And you know, yeah, that that's that's kind of really, I think, how it happened for us. Yeah. Yeah. So you were saying you, you and your family had gone through some pretty tough times prior to leading up to the idea of of starting this company? And would you mind sharing with us what some of those memories and moments were and some of the tough times that you guys experienced to to lead you into this point? Yeah. Yeah, so sorry. No, no, no, it's great. Yeah, cuz it's big. It's big, but it's everything. And at the beginning, you know, first when I started, I thought, you know, I'm going to start a company and I'm not going to, I feel like I can leave that behind. Right. I'm, like, gonna move forward. And then like, everything, all roads kept leading back to to it and I was like, wait, no, that's our power. That's our strength, you know? So, so, so yeah, so we're domestic violence survivors. I have three kids and, and the, there's a lot of, you know, my brain wants to go in a lot different directions here. Number one is kind of talking about, you know, that, that that issue in itself, because there's a lot of stigma about that too, but, but I'm the one I divorced. I mean, the marriage was obviously not it was pretty awful, right? So but when I divorced, was actually when everything got even worse. I was just not In common in, but I had to fight for the safety of my kids, when the courts wanted to mandate visitation with our abuser, and that was like not okay with me, but it was kind of, there's some not so great things that happen within that system. And so it was a battle of a lifetime. And that was, um, I just thought, you know, I'm gonna fight to the death for my kids. And so everything went on hold I homeschooled them, because they were traumatized by this whole process of, you know, it was just the worst possible things as a mother that you can ever meet can't protect your kids, you feel like, you know, um, so that was, I, you know, we will be the worst thing that I ever go through in my life. But I was like, I'm determined to, you know, beat the system, I'm going to do whatever it takes. So during that time, the only thing and the only freedom we had was, you know, I live in Washington state, we're very, you know, outdoors are very accessible. Oh, yeah, the Olympic National Park that was close to us where we were living, then, you know, and the ocean beaches, everything. So I take the kids camping and hiking, we'd get in the van. And we just like, Go, and I was so brave, and I look back. Yeah. Babies, and we would just, and we were just like, my kids would just like, you know, run on the beach, and they lean into the wind, and they'd, you know, we could just like yell and scream and be just safe. And that's the only place we felt free and like, everything was gonna be okay, we felt protected, we felt nurtured and cared for. And it was our sanity. And so after his very life changing time, and it took years to go get through this, it was kind of like, you know, we're just immensely changed. So, coming out of that, there, there's a time of kind of flying under the radar went after it stopped and kind of just licking our wounds, and, you know, seeing how we're moving forward. And, and I lost basically, my life sat down to this very small kind of place where I, you know, people like contacts, and in people I just didn't have, it was like, starting over like a baby. Life was gone. Yes, it was just basically, it took everything we had. And, and so then, I thought, but I but so what am I going to do now. And it was like it was so I've always been super empathetic, super unconnected, you know, to nature and things like but I did. Everything, just kind of, there's nothing else I could do, but do this, this is I have to give back I have to, I'm so grateful for what nature offered us and I had to do something to honor that I just wanted to honor and protect that. Because we're all so connected to it, it is our healing. You know, it is our so that's what I want to promote. And that's what I feel like I need to do. So that's kind of where, how that all kind of went. And that's what defined the journey. And along the way and as we have our conversation, you know, things will kind of, you know, lead back there, but, but my healing process and how I experienced the world, you know, as an extremely empathetic person who feels everything and feels nature, I don't just like see it, it's like and so, you know, how does that that is influenced kind of everything that we've done along the way. And yeah, so yeah, no, I totally get that I'm I'm very much the same way. And with my own healing process from what from my attack a few years ago, I've it's taught me a lot about myself. And it's taught me a lot about how to treat people and how to value my relationships. The ones that aren't good, I release them and I hold no weight to them anymore. And the ones that are important I cherish them even more so and I also get what you mean about nature and how you feel it like you it's it's a strange connection that I cannot describe to people and it's I was listening this morning to a podcast it was some one someone who had interviewed me and I was listening to my own voice and the things I was saying and it was like it gave me goosebumps as I was describing it but how I feel was talking about being out in nature and I think I was describing a sunrise and in Yellowstone National Park and the crisp cool air and how hyper aware I was of every sound blade of grass the wind directions every little thing and it was it was like a spiritual emotional place yeah where yeah where it's like oh, and I think there in particular in other places where there's a potential that you could be eaten like You're like you're hyper aware of you know you're hyper aware of like your surroundings then but like it just even deeper than that I feel that in a walk in the park in Chicago or particularly like when I went to the Gifford National Forest out by you guys and I just the smells the the senses not just visual but the audio the touch the smell everything. Yeah, I can I can just die I love that deep into my soul. And it sounds like you're someone who has used that to help, especially as a sanctuary, a place where you can heal from the traumas that you've had. And it's, it's been instrumental for me, I don't know what I would have done without it. If I couldn't you don't have a choice really do you don't have a choice, but because it's like, yeah, I was thinking about you that way. Because I kind of had that sense about you and I, but I was wanting, you know, for the, when you're doing what you do, like you see things that are like, hard to see, you have to have, you know, it's have to be things are tough to, and like, I was thinking about that, you know, 1000 like, gosh, how could I absorb that? And, you know, you seem like a positive and really, you know, person, he's like always, you know, looking for change and looking for the good. Like, I I'm just like wondering, to be the interviewer for a second here. How do you navigate that emotional component of what you do? When it's not easy? You know, when it's not like beautiful? Maybe it's maybe it's maybe in its rawness or roughness, there's some beauty too, but you know, I'm saying, right, yeah, no, of course, I mean, it particularly like now that I'm removed from my own trauma, that that whole thing is long in my past, like, I still see therapists continuously to work on things, I think it's just very healthy to do. Most people should see someone to talk to that isn't family that's a trained professional that can help you navigate your own mind, whether you've been through something like URI have, it's just, you know, to learn how to deal with a friend have lost loved one, a parent that may have died, it could be anything like your dog got hit like that's a traumatic event, like, it doesn't even have to be trauma, you could just have someone because it's nice to talk to someone who's objective and doesn't, you know, know, your, your past and just wants to guide you. So there is, I still use that as a great tool to help me just kind of not even compartmentalize, because I like to weave it all together. But it's just nice to have guidance from someone like that and to help me heal continuously because it it's even now removed three years ish, I don't remember anymore. It's little things pop up every now and again. But it doesn't bother me like it used to like I used to really get emotional, I would lock down I would do all the defensive things that victims do and and I isolate and push people away. And now I'm like, I can have a conversation with you. I can talk about it openly and be proud of who I am and that nobody can take that away from me, right? Yes, yes, yes. Yes. Yeah. I love that I love Yeah. And I mean, and so when I'm seeing things out in nature that are hard to seize, like disappearing landscapes or just trash that people leave behind in national parks or graffiti, or in Africa or Southeast Asia, really not so great human rights things. I haven't quite I mean, visibly notify, like seeing that it's slavery. But I see things that are essentially like slave labor in something like the fashion industry, right? Yeah, yeah, places. It when I come back, and if I experience it this July, when I came back from Africa, I was there for three weeks, I felt like I needed to remove myself from the United States, American Society for like a little bit of time. Like, I felt like there needs to be a buffer because like, I had, I took this really powerful photograph. And I haven't posted it online yet. Because it's just it's too. It doesn't belong online. It belongs in a museum, find people can look at it, but it's it's a photograph of like a two year old child smoking a cigarette. And it's so intense and her eyes are just strained. And she's just like, very stressed out. And I'd be glad to send it to you. But it Yeah. It's something that like when I came home, and I heard like, people complaining about things that were so trivial or like, yes, you know what I mean? Yeah, I wanted to just like scream at them and be like, yes, you have no clue what you like. And that wasn't ready that because like they're dealing with their own things. And to them, it's important. And I had to like, really take a step back without like blowing up my relationships and friendships with people and being like, deep breath, like, Yeah, this is their reality. And you need to like, take a timeout and get into their reality for a moment and like, acknowledge that their problems are causing them an equal amount of stress, even though like the stress isn't equal. Like am I like a smoking two year old is worse than like a two year old who won't listen to you? Yeah, but yeah, that two year old is a different problem. I think the more you know, the more you the more work you do right on yourself and, and the more you kind of, you know, examine, you know, like your journey and everything like that, you know, it does get harder it gets harder to relate it gets harder Really, but but that's the thing, like, and even like, in in with eco friendly fashion or stuff like that I'm just kind of like, but But you know, people they I want people to they don't see, like the like how do you not know, how do you not, you know, think about this or whatever, you know things like, but I have to always remind myself, you know, everybody is on their own journey and everybody comes to their, their aha moments, you know, in their own time, and they're, you know, so it's hard to not want to just like to jump in and you know, say, but it's way worse here or it's this or that, you know, you it that can get overwhelming that that emotion, I mean, it kind of like what you're saying we had to step away, you know, because you just kind of get your life perspective to really make sense, in your surroundings anywhere. Yeah, sometimes you have to do that. But um, I think it's always kind of, I always want to try to grow and learn and get better, and, you know, find we know, where am I falling short, and I know heal my trauma, you know, that's an ongoing thing. You know, but it does put you at odds, you know, sometimes, you know, with the your surroundings and things that are happening. And so I think that's, that's awesome, the way you're handling that. And I think it just something lifelong, you have to do, right, like, totally, and just be, you know, have, you know, Grant people with the grace for their journey. And, you know, unless it's a harmful journey for someone else. Right, that, but yeah, it's a balance. Yeah, it is. And I think people in our industry and and I'd say the industry of saving the planet, right? People who are like passionate about like doing things for the betterment of this this planet, in one way or another have like a constant struggle with like, educating people on what's happening and not seeming like the righteous person who's just streaming like at them, like this is the way to do it all the time. That's important. Yeah. Because you can really turn people off with that, right? It's like, if you're saying, absolutely, well, how dare you buy a pair of Nikes? Don't you know where they came from? And it's like, well, yeah, they're, you know, what are you talking about? I just bought them cuz I liked them. They may not either know, or they may not be in the position to, like, buy new shoes to change that, you know, because, and we're gonna dive into this in a little bit, because I, one of the things that I find with eco friendly brands is their more expensive and it's, it's not open to the masses yet. So when I kind of get on my high horse to someone about like, don't you know, what the sustainable fashion or like the throwaway fashion industry does? I'm like, well, first of all, you just learned about it. So don't think of it. Second. of all, like, you know, I always like to have conversations, people based on fact, or at least try it. And if I can't, then I don't particularly take a strong argument, I'll just like, let's talk about have a conversation, and maybe we can educate ourselves. And we think a lot of work for me is come up with the therapy and learning how to have conversations with people that are not easy. Like, yeah, you know, that is really helped me with carry over into things like talking to friends about politics, this Yeah. You know, the last six years, we'll say, and how polarizing that can be. Yeah. But still keep a friendship like, right like I can. I'm like, I know you I went to high school with you. I know everything about you. How did that happen? Wait a minute, like, Who are you now in? person that I grew up with? But I still love them? And it's just like, say no, it's these therapies really helped to like deal with people that I may not see eye to eye with? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's a lot of people are probably if they're listening, going, Yeah, I know. Right. Like, right. As we approach the holidays, holidays, yes, for sure. And we had, everybody kind of had a rude awakening about that, what a weird thing to have happened that we actually re examine relationships you had forever, it's kind of, it's weird, you know, but it's always it's a good skill to have. And it's kind of like what you were saying, you know, like, you just kind of are, you know, more recently thinking about the eco friendly fashion and stuff like that, like, I've been, like, you know, kind of in this headspace and researching and doing other stuff, you know, now offer like, this has been like, probably for like about eight years. But but so I can think so I'm used to thinking this way, and I can forget that. But that is the reminder, kind of like I said, what, like, I didn't know, at one point I didn't know. And I'm still like, things are changing all the time. There's still things you know, that I that I don't know, and they're gonna change and you try to stay on top of it. But everybody has a time when they don't know something. So you have to allow this information unless you're traveling in those circles, if you're, you know, connected to those people and social media and stuff like that, and where you're getting being fed that information. If you're not like you just don't see it, you just don't know. So so just you know, being like graceful about that education process is, you know, the right way to do because people and when they do not they, they want to try? Yeah, I found you know, they're generally like, Oh, I didn't know that's, you know, what can I do? So, yeah, just being graceful through the disseminating of information and yeah, I think it's important. Yeah, it is. Okay. So back to your, your process and like with the company where did where did you start to source your materials and ideas like wearing because like people maybe are starting to hear about like things like organic cotton or reusable fibers or recycled polyesters? Or things? Where did you be able to start finding the resources to create this type of brand? Can you can you describe your product to us a little? Yeah, well, so my thing, because I kind of always come from a place of, it's kind of a weird way to say it, but like a champion of the underdog. And the, the thing like the person, I think, I probably always felt a little bit like an outsider, I just felt like, even before everything happened, like I was different, I always felt different, like, I like I experienced the world differently. Like, because of my empathy and because of things like that, it was always kind of, so I will always so what I wanted to do, because the especially in that like for eco friendly fashion and like outdoors themed, you know, that world is very, it feels very inaccessible to a lot of people, it's like you have to be an extreme hiker, backpacker, or you have to be like some, you know, someone who's, you know, well versed in the outdoors, and you you know, go for, you know, you know, 3d tracks and stuff like that, but but for me, you know, I want to make it nature accessible. And to create that love affair with just, you know, being outside, if you're in a city you have and you have a park, if you have you know, green spaces, you know, where I always say with a great turns to green, you know, that's where you should go. And, and you don't have you can go for a day, you can drive up to you know, drive it to the mountains, if you like and for some reason, it's not accessible for you to hike or drive, just try there with the windows down, sit there, go someplace and sit, just be there, you know, all of that is valid, okay, that's all a nature experience. And nature can speak to you that way. So I want to just have make an accessible brand, where people could feel like, it could be just, you know, I went on the ski vacations when I was growing up, and we went, you know, we're you just have those, those happy memories of maybe sitting by the fire doing this or that cold of the snow or the feeling of the ocean breeze, do you know everybody can have those accessible feeling that I want to celebrate that. So I'm not like a big name. You know, I can't compete with you know, the, the REI is, and Eddie Bauer's in the, you know, the big outdoors brands like and I don't want to, you know, environmentally speaking to like, I didn't have the means number one, I literally started our company and, you know, paperclips and string, just kind of a determination. And like, I'm going to figure something out, step by step. So I don't have the resources to like, create my own fabrics to do all this kind of stuff. But I felt like that would be overkill. And it would not, you know, like end well, because I didn't have the resources in there. Other companies already own that market. So what I what I did, because I wanted this to be a vehicle and I want to get the message across I looked, and even like, eight years ago, I'm aiming for, like, it was really hard to find, like, products that were like eco friendly. And so that then I found a company and I my big thing is, there's different ways you can focus on being eco friendly. And for me, mine was like, carbon footprint. Um, yeah, so I didn't want to people can be had their eco friendly business and they, they import, you know, things and like I didn't want to have add all that I want to keep my footprint small. So I want to keep it domestic. And then I found a company in New York. And so they have, and they had products that were you know, they're really great, like, for t shirts, and joggers and hoodies, and things like that, that were just super great quality, because that's really important to me, like, I want everything to be really well made. And they're so soft and comfortable. And it was, um, and then my messages like the designs that we do. I those are just things that kind of come from the heart like things that I you know, I thought some of your messages resonate. Yeah, beautiful. I saw it through your products like, Oh, that's so nice. That's nice. Really. I mean, it's like, the way you describe, like, there was a couple of like, I saw one particular it was a mountain peak, and it was a sweater or sweatshirt and like just your messaging and it was like, Yeah, that's exactly what the mountains are about. Ah, I'm so glad that I still go that comes across because it's, it's like, um, like, I guess like, you know, writing a song, it's like doing anything, like, it's a very vulnerable thing to, you know, I'm not, I'm always been really creative and kind of artistic person, but I'm not like a graphic designer. I'm not, I knew I know what I want and I know what I like, and then I will always figure out a way to do it. So I just kind of like and I just kind of did it from my heart. So I always want to lead with that. And that's how I want to connect with people and I want to kind of create pictures in their mind. So that's kind of how the designs come about and we like labor over they seem simple maybe but just every little detail we just really labor over just has to feel just right so you know, it seems it might be like seem Simple like pronounceable is all very much a part of our experience part of our life and what we hope to have people feel when they wear our products when they see our products in. And that's kind of want that to be the basis of our company. And also that our customer service is outstanding so that we create connections. Because if you have, it sounds like you're an empath, like you're an empathetic person at heart. So when you're like that you have in you, you want to connect with people, that's kind of, yeah, just you know, casual talking with people is hard, because you feel like you have this, you know, you want to connect with people. Um, and I'm an introvert. So I mean, I don't mean that way, like, I need a lot of people, but the ones who want to make it, you want to feel like there's a connection. So with our business, like we really, we communicate a lot, we so reach out, ask questions, how can we help, we've developed so many friendships like around the world, just by taking the time to connect with them emotionally about what the product is, and what their memories are, and all that. So that's kind of the whole package. But, um, to just go back, so just sourcing out of New York, we get, you know, apparel blanks, and, and then we then we do all the design and embellishment, you know, right here and then and so and that's kind of how I keep things like small and local as I can Gotcha. Is there a certifying body that can that is out there that in the fashion industry that's saying like this is guaranteed to be what you're saying it is yeah, there there is like there's like for organic con for example. Yes, you there are there are and so and we can we write that on our on our website, too, that it's certified to it's important if you if you see like apparel, and it just says cotton and people just think oh cotton, that's a natural fiber, that's you know, and so but if it just says cotton, it's conventionally grown cotton, you know, so unless it's organic cotton, and then there so you always have to you know, and there's greenwashing out there you just never but yeah there's like gots certified cotton and so yes, there are there are ways that that is certified so yeah, because I don't know if you saw the documentary see spirits. See, did you see that one? Oh, okay. Check it out. But yeah, maybe it may ruin some things for you. But most documentaries, I'm like, dang it. No. Yeah. Right. Yeah. But what I thought was fascinating was the the food industry has certain labels that they can slap on like, sustainably caught, or wild caught salmon or sustainably caught, whatever. And there's really no way for proving it. And this guy kind of dove into like, come on, you're just slapping a label on something that's really BS. It's more of marketing than it was protection. Yeah. And so I wonder like, I can because the the fashion industry is probably you're close to as powerful as the food industry. I just worry like that. There are there are people who are I mean, greenwashing is for sure. Everybody knows about that. But like, if there's any certifying bodies out there that are saying, like, there is but you know, the consumer, the burden, then, you know, ultimately falls to the consumer, which is a heavy burden when they when they don't know things. So this is one of my things. Like, just because I'm like a fairplay person. Yeah, I to be honest, like this is I see like on Instagram, these clothing brands like, oh, you know, like, even if they say like, oh, we, you know, pick up a pound of trash for every shirt was like, we do trash cleanups, we created our own trash cleanup program that we that we don't like, how does that work? Because like, I can't, like plan out, I'm gonna get a pound of trash or two pounds. Like, what does that even mean? But sometimes, you know, they're very legitimate, like, and if they are, they'll tell you, you know, the show you pictures, they'll say where they do it, what was collected, they'll talk about it. If they ask you then people comment, like in on Instagram. So you know, where does this and then, you know, crickets chirping, there's like dead silence. They don't talk about it. That's always like a red flag. But in terms of like, the materials, you have to, like, kind of learn to read between the lines and like a product description. If a product like a T shirt has like 18 colors you can choose from? Probably not you're friendly. And they're very, there are many aspects to that. Like there's what's the dye process, you know, what do they you know, there's like it's so it can get so intricate if you break it down, but but the consumer at some point, like you have to kind of like dig into because you can't really trust companies will stretch that and it drives me crazy. It just breaks my heart because people like oh, we're helping save the planet. Like oh my gosh, really fast fashion, you know? Yeah. So and that people will do that is just heartbreaking for me. And also because every the thing the thing about that is though, to me, this is what you'll find out a lot on your journey is that in my mind, I want everything to be you do this and then this is the right thing to do. It's like everything in life like there's no perfect answer. Okay, so like organic cotton 100% over conventional cotton for sure. But there's a downside to everything. You know, recycled plastic is like what do we do with all the plastic in the landfill when like China wasn't accepting it anymore. We have to we have all this plastic. You have companies you know making the products out of recycled plastic because they want to solve this problem but then you As particularly the recycle Polly's and Polly they have in any of your clothing is, you know, sheds microfibers and like fibers is a huge problem. So then, you know, you have like dryer attachments and things you can do in the washing process that can mitigate that. But that's not commonly done. And I mean everything. Yeah, this rabbit hole and you kind of go well, do we try? What do we do? But it's all it's that I'm saying? You know, don't let perfect be the enemy of good. Yeah. So you do keep moving in that forward direction, keep doing the least harm to keep doing, you know, moving and things will with all the innovations and everything. I believe, you know, things will find too, because we have to now right? We have Right, right? Yeah, yeah, we're at that tipping point where it's like, okay, we, it's no longer a luxury, it's a necessity. And I think people like you. And I see that. And I'm trying to get the message out to the masses that like, it's not just the hippies anymore, that want to be earth friendly. Like, it's a real big deal that we need to do this. For generations. I don't have children myself, but like, I want my nieces and nephews to, like, live in a world where there's a live ocean, like the you know, not just dead, and it's not that far off, if we keep the pace that we're going. And so, yeah, those sort of things are important. So somebody brought up to me yesterday, actually, for the very first time, that concept of the microfibers in the clothing that are washing off into the ocean, can you talk to me a little bit? That's the first time I've heard about that, what is the story behind that? It's just, it's just, you know, anytime you wash any kind of clothing, you know, I mean, it, that it sheds like these just tiny, tiny particles, and you know, and then and then when they just get flushed out, they're like, less than five millimeters like, is considered, I think, a micro fiber micro particle. So I mean, but yeah, they get washed into the waterways and oceans like full of it, and, and then, you know, the, the fish consume them, and then people consume fish. And, you know, I mean, so that, so it's kind of everywhere, and and it gets into the like, you know, the, the water cycle, it's, it's crazy. And it's, you know, really alarming and that was the thing that's kind of like I because I, I love organic cotton is pretty sight, you know, the some issues on growing at some times, which are really getting much better. You know, that's kind of the great, it's a great fabric because it does biodegrades on its own right in a fairly short amount of time. Like, roughly, you know, less than a year I think we're gonna come we'll start to in a clothing article, like in water or something like that will be great. Start you're getting Listen, you're like a recycled plastic is like, I think it's like 70% of the organic cotton and like, don't quote me on these numbers, but like, ya know, 4% for the, for, like, recycle, probably, like, you know, so you think so again, it kind of seems like that's like a great, you know, thing, and then the recycle, but the recycle. Plastic is like such a great use of that you can create products out of, you know, these, like bottles and everything. So it's kind of I but then I when I was finding out more about the micro plastic container, right? How is so so hard to like, what do you do do not do that, like, so. So, I feel like there's got to be more things done, like, really top level, like the business, big companies, you know, saying that, you know, all dryers have to be, you know, fitted or retrofitted with this particular thing. So her washing machines and stuff. So when they wash that, you know, there are things like these balls, you can put in your machine things that can capture a certain percentage, like this whole thing. I'm like, why are people talking about this more, this is a really big problem on the consumer level, is that something that can be in a household that people can do? So I hate to kind of like, I don't like to say, you know, every one thing is completely bad, because it's not, there's the good aspects to it. But then there are problems that come up that we have to solve. So so that micro plastics one is like, that's tough. And when we do beach cleanups, some of these are even, they're bigger than microplastics even but when people do beach cleanups, they typically go for the big items of glory. I don't know. Because, yeah, like, like, we've sat there and just like, picked through the sand sometimes in areas that are like, just so these tiny, it's like, you know, come it's really overwhelming, but it's so it's something that yeah, it's it's it's an issue, it weighs heavily. And I think there's this, you know, innovations hopefully we'll find ways to kind of deal with this because it's a problem. Yeah. And that's kind of one of the question I was gonna ask is What can some what can people do themselves and on a daily basis, a weekly basis as an individual consumer, what can they do to help support the the sustainable eco fashion world and not put all the faith in big business to do it for them? Because we know that that typically doesn't happen even though there are some good ones out there now that are taking the initiative. What can the consumer do besides with the dollar like we know that the dollar votes really heavily? What what can be Do like you just grabbed the ball thing and that collects fibers? And what are some other things that people can? Yeah, I mean, it's that is hard because, you know, it's been said that no matter, you know, what you do like is just like an individual, there's not gonna be able to solve the problem like, like, what do choices you make is that like in a sober? So I just feel like it like I said, everything you do that goes in positive direction does make a difference, but the real onus is on the big corporations, the big businesses who have the power who are doing the, the production that to make that, you know, it's this is obviously what's kind of driving what's happening right now to Pluto, that will always be from the beginning of time, even with like, it's like greed over, you know, what's, what's the what's best for people a planet, whatever, like greed is like, like, a horrible driving force. That's kind of so so getting the company's summer but they're finding, I think now, especially with green energy and stuff like that people are like, all resistant, but the fact is, wait, wait, why don't you look at that as being a leader in that you can, you can actually be a leader, you can create jobs in this whole new industry that will actually, you know, help in the long run. Like, why wouldn't you want to be a superhero in that? Why do you want to keep doing so. But hopefully, you know, the things go in, and I'm hearing more and more things like there's a, you know, companies are having these moments of reckoning because people are getting smarter people are making man. So what you're saying so I would say like, but still for me, like personally, like, how do I do this, I you know, just use cleaning products and everything using your home, make sure they're green cleaning products are very available. Now, they didn't used to be. But now it's really easy to find things that are you know, less harmful, that's super important to do. Just personally, me I'm vegan, and food choices, you know, and the Meatless Monday things and things like that, you know, like easing off on meat consumption, and everything has a huge effect on the environment. And in turn, and then also, you know, if you get this little spark or fire, and you're like, I really want to do something, number one feel like anybody can you can Google it, right? Like, that's what we start out and we just start Googling things, or how can I, you know, microphone microplastics? Like, what can I do in my home? Like, what are these products, you know, you're just start searching for them, because they are more available now. And just those types of things, you know, just in your own life, you can do and then be a voice, like, like to be a voice be, you know, support, you know, programs and companies and, you know, activism and things like that, like, that is where when companies won't change, the people do have the power to change. Yeah. So so it's kind of like all the combinations. And then the same time, be gentle with yourself. Be gentle with your not knowing. Yeah, until with your process. You know, and don't think that it doesn't matter. I say again, because it does matter. You do matter. Yeah, your choices do matter, you can impact. You know, I have been vegan, I'm not just I just have a specially after everything, but through that I just have a real problem is suffering in any level. And I have to like, for me, it's like this. So I but I, I know much. I've been waiting for a while. So when I first made it, it wasn't like a popular thing. And I I've never, that's something you never, you know, bang people over the head with that, that's food is a very personal choice for people. That's very hard, just a cultural thing. It's hard for everybody. So, but I found like, you know, if people ask if there's something just when it came up, people I realized, like, over the years, like, someone had said to me, actually, oh, that was really, really inspired me that into now. Now I'm doing like this, people who actually kind of I thought no way would ever, you know, change or consider that as an option or just going to dabble in it just, you know, like this, actually, that I was having an influence, not by beating people over the head, but just by, you know, gently living my life. And because it was important to me. So everybody can, you know, make a difference and have an influence, no matter what it is. So, yeah, absolutely. And then be kind of the ones that don't know, right? That's, that's because I don't know. Yeah, yes, yes. Yeah. I'm just hope people long I think and little steps. And no, that's, that's excellent. So your daughter is the co founder of your company. Is this correct? Is it Yeah, so how is it working with a with a family member in trying to create and, and run a successful company? It's fantastic. I mean, there was no my kids and I because of everything we went through like we're super close. Yeah, like we just we were an island in this world of darkness and chaos, and nobody understood what we were going to do. So for us, and everybody and no, it was so dark and traumatic and people had no idea what happened in that, especially where we were living at the time. Some areas are more corrupt than others, but In the darkness around kids being pawns are used for money, you know, in systems, like there's a lot of things. So people kind of, they tend to kind of go away. It's not not because they don't care, but it's emotionally hard to handle. It changes your worldview. And it's hard for people to do that. You don't want to know that those things happen. So my kids and I were very much, you know, post together, did that whole thing. And so we've always been really close, roughly, how old were they? Well, so gosh, suddenly, so at the time of divorce, my daughter was only like, one or two. And my boys were like, six, seven and champs are seven and 10. About okay, I know know about six, eight. Okay. Yeah, no, Mama. Sorry. into that. Yeah. Five. Yeah. It's hard to remember. But I think other ages and yeah, so there is. My boys are three years apart, my daughter's four is after so. So but they were they were little and but um, so the whole process, but when we when I was homeschooling them, because they couldn't, there's no way they could do public school, they couldn't have you know, they had to have a nice, safe, loving environment to grow. And we got to explore and we have to like, learn and do all these things and go on little adventures and these day trips, and then we'd go camping weed was like, my once was really the mushrooms. And he's a little as a ranger, you know, this little kids like it. And the Ranger said, here's a book. And he loved that book. And he did a whole, you know, presentation on it and my son and he made this board about it and everything. And so we kind of went on this journey together. So it really drizzly close together. And by the time we started the business, my son, my oldest son has a degree in environmental studies. Excellent. And then my other son has a degree in photojournalism. And so in business, and so combined their expertise and how they could help. And then my daughter being a kind of a creative and super hardworking. She's like me very much, you know, empathetic nature. So just all three of us together, kind of it was a nice foundation to start. And then my boys, you know, had they're doing their own careers also. So my daughter, and I just kind of took them there. And so we're just like, I mean, I have, I've had a weird life that way, but my, my kids, and I just get along. They're my favorite people in the whole world. They inspire me every day, and I love work with my daughter, I just, I couldn't imagine doing with anyone else. That's so incredible. I mean, the answer? No, that's perfect. These are all meant to be long answers from the heart. That's really beautiful. Um, where do you see your company going in the next five years, and then in the next 10 years. So hopefully, things are challenging right now, I won't lie because also there, there are, even in my small little supply chain, you know, there's still there issues you've uncovered cause a lot of problems that way. We also had, we were doing a lot of events and things which were kind of nice, because then we because we're an online business, but we did events, which gave us a chance to do outreach and education, and things like that. And we did a lot of sales that way. And, you know, that all ended as well. So, um, so, but the thing is, you know, it kind of made me I kind of realized I have to fight for it a little bit more now. And I, I, this is just part of, it's my business, but it's part of my soul, and especially doing the cleanups and the things we do like, you know, it, so it's part of my identity, I feel like now and I so I would like to see, I guess I like to integrate the educational component in more like to be, you know, just MIT, like, making the information accessible to people, you know, about even cleaning up and doing things like that. What's kind of funny is like, when we do cleanups, I'm like, we're just like that those weird people like on the beach, or we do by kayak as well, we're kind of up there too. And people like they see us and kind of the the thought was people like, oh, you can do you can do like a person can just go to trash. It doesn't sound weird. That sounds weird, right? But it's like, you feel like you need permission to do it. Unless you're a private property, but you don't, you can just go pick up trash, like you can. They're like, I'm gonna go do that, like, yeah, you can do it, you can do it. Like, it's a weird thing. Like, there's so much we feel like we can't do it we haven't been trained to do. So I want to do more like, hopefully, kind of inspiring around that. You know, just I'd like to just in my, this is not a measurable thing, per se, but just I would just keep promoting that connection with nature because it's all we have. It's everything right now. That's what's our survival, you know, from the tiniest little plankton, to you know, elephants in Africa, like, everything is connected like that saying, you pull one thread and everything is affected. Like it's so true and just kind of I want to just keep educating, make people feel connected, create happiness and connection and kindness and positivity with each other, you know, promote a like a loving environment, and hopefully just through maybe educational programs Some things I would love to grow in that way partnerships, we've done partnerships with local conservation nonprofits. I love doing that. And you know, do more of that and just kind of make that community grow and connect. Yeah. And that's that's gonna be the key to your success. And I mean, it's, it's, it's in the name of service, right? You don't care about like having a billion dollar company that is pulling in profits for the shareholders and everyone's making money and driving Lamborghinis. You're now you're thinking about, like, how many people and how much? How can I be in service more? Yeah, instead of mee. Mee Mee, it's about, you know, it's the next who can I help? And that's beautiful. And it'll be the key to your success too. And it's authentic, and it's genuine. And that will resonate with people. So Oh, thank you. Authenticity is the thing. And as a survivor, yeah, do you do you feel more like authenticity is like a totally. Yeah, it's all about authenticity. Right. It's a weird thing. But um, I think that's a common trait. Um, but survivors and so you can't do anything less. Right. Like you just have to Yeah, yeah, like in it. Yeah, it wasn't always that way. Because I was like, I grew up as this like kind of jock like, I need in any of the coaches put pounded into your head, like, be a man toughen up, you know, like, you know, do this and they put like, this heavily mask of masculinity over you and like, and then when you when I went through the trauma that I did have been attacked, and like, it brought me down to like, nothing. And then starting over to, to build that back up. You like, it almost was like a, I say this before, it was almost like a blessing because it taught me like who I was as a person and like, and yeah, I just, I don't know, I really want to like, give give back to more. You know, it's a strange it's, it's a hard it's a tough to describe, uh, yeah, you're right. So I noticed him because because you don't want to say like, I mean, and it's not like, I don't believe that, you know, we're, like, punished in life to learn lessons. I believe that, that less that hard situations can be redeemed, you know what I mean? But, but it that's the thing, like, like, cuz I would never see my kids stuff like that, to have me serve, like, I would never want to go out again, I would never want you to go through it. And you wouldn't really want to go through it again. But but but the things you the way the who you are now, and who I am now, you know, afterwards, I feel like it's kind of like a being like, a good steward of your pain. Wait, I don't know how to say that. You know, I'm saying, like, it takes like, how can you? It can change you in like, I'm, I like the person that I am. Yeah, I have everything that I've you know, I mean, and you can see that about you. I can see that. From my like trauma and in insecurities and all the things that I have to deal with all the time. Like, I like this broken, messy person. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's beautiful. And I think like, one of the things that it really taught me was, Well, I think one of the most powerful things was it showed up my relationships with people that already cared about like it like my mom and dad and I are closer than we've ever been. And family in my inner circle of people who love me, like, I can tell them that I love them now, and I can tell them the things that bother me like when I opened up to them about being attacked and like, the things like I told now, it's an open book, like they know exactly what they're getting from me, like, yeah, that I don't have to pretend when I'm not happy. I don't have to, you know, I don't pretend like or if I'm not, I can talk to them about it. And it's okay like to have a conversation. And it made it just that those relationships that I had with those people are so strong, because of the fact that I like, can be honest. And literally leave what isn't that like how life should be the right, you know? Like, isn't that that's so beautiful. I'm so glad I'm so glad for you for that. I'm so glad. Yeah. I mean, in this weird, like, just being honest with me just being on it. Did you have a period of time? Was there a period of time where you didn't know where it happened? And you suffered in silence? Oh, totally. Yeah, I was I messed up my relationships. I was like, I was doing things that were just like, counterproductive that I just didn't know how to deal with and I was seeing a therapist, and it's not his fault, but it wasn't a good fit. Yeah. So like I was I was going to a therapist and lying to him. Yeah, I understand that. Right. Because it's like what I wanted. It's like what I thought they would want to hear but it wasn't doing anything for me. And so like when I switched over to this new therapist and tried it again, because I realized that I still needed help and I wasn't getting it. It was like a total game changer. And I love this guy to death. He never can retire. Like he's probably a generation older than me, but I hope that I outlive him because he's just so it's just so important to me. I know he knows that as well. But like, yeah, for sure. There was a period where I was self destructive and not like self harming, but If I wasn't doing any good for myself, or my relationships or my friendships, yeah, I was just locking it all in and tying things up. And I saw, like, everything was continuing to suffer. And then once you could really break through that, it was like, holy, I can't swear. I just want to like, Whoa, this is what it feels like to be free kind of really mean and Hola. And to be able to be loved for who you are offended, like, yeah, just like unconditionally love with one no matter what, because every, we all have stuff that happens to us. I mean, people can pretend that you know, or try to gloss over sometimes, you know, and people have to do that sometimes for a period of time, right? I mean, it's hard to absorb, but everybody has their something and, and just that kind of lets so you know, beautiful because once you once you because life is just that it's not easy. It's like struggle after struggle show, okay, but there's beauty in between. And once you can start to unlock those doors. I mean, I mean, you've already been doing like, amazing work, your photography, and your conservation work and stuff. And then you're just, you know, kind of branching out, like, you have so much to give, you're unlocking all these doors of potential that, you know, um, that, you know, could have stayed shut, but that's what life is, like, you know, the, I always feel my biggest fear and probably I but maybe for you too, as like, as being stuck has been, that's my biggest fear is like stopping growing, not learning being stuck in a surgery. Like, his life is so big, and I lost so much time, I'm gonna say, lost so much time I, you know, I just feel like, I don't want to waste a minute now. No, waste a minute, right? Absolutely. Yeah, totally. I mean, that's so parallel to exactly how I feel with things. And, and it was, it was fascinating to me, like, the different responses I got from people telling them things like, like, some people were, would immediately cry, or they would, you know, because they didn't, you know, like my mom, you know, like, that was a very normal response for her because she couldn't protect me in that moment. And you know, these are things or people would say, Well, why would you do such a thing? Why would you air all your personal stuff out to the world? You know, and honestly, like, I've because of it, everybody I know knows exactly what they're getting, you know, I'm, I don't need to sell them on an image of who I am. It's just what I am. And it's authentic. And there's something so beautiful with that. And I just get so fresh out people who are not authentic and just try to like, put on a face that everything's happy and cheerful and joyful, and all this stuff. And it's like you can be, but you can also be real about things and have conversations with people that aren't easy. And then realize, like, you know, and it's so it's interesting as well, like, my career grew in the same trajectory as my like, oh, and honestly, because I was, I was not afraid to have conversations with people, you know, reach out to complete strangers about doing a podcast, because now I can talk about anything. And this is the first this is one of the first ones I've kind of gotten into this that I've done on my own, but like, it's beautiful to have a conversation with a stranger or somebody and relate to them on so many levels. And that's the beauty of human connection. Yes. 100%. And the thing you know, sometimes, like especially, well, you know, in your situation and in my situation, like with domestic violence, because there's like, there's, you know, there's, you know, victim blame is a thing, and it's like, and people, it's not like, it's like always like an intentional thing. It's it's a knee jerk reaction that's like, kind of a, like a proven, like, psychological thing that people do. But, but But it's it can be hard because I I lived so I know my thing, but people always like, why did you this? Why didn't you this? You know, but when you know the truth of it, that can be a little uncomfortable and hard sometimes, but I had probably like, you know, you just had to learn to like, let go of those who maybe didn't understand. And, you know, and know that, um, because I couldn't like I said I couldn't escape my story. I couldn't escape my story. My story was why I do what I do. And it's why I'm who I am. So I just need to like, you know, accept and own that and just kind of like, like you did, and it can It is a journey to get there sometimes. And it can be hard sometimes silly. I always people say something like, oh, yeah, that's right. But I've take so much explained, explain how that actually happens. You just have to let some stuff go. And then just kind of just walk into the beauty of it and understand that actually, like said it's your power. That's what makes you powerful. And because Oh, you're also you know, your compassion, even though you're I can tell like a compassionate person before like it's grown exponentially, right? And so when you're doing your work and photography is emotion, like you can, it can just influence everything you're doing. Yeah, absolutely. Do you do any outreach in that space in the domestic violence space? Or is it mostly environmental stuff? Have you made that bridge yourself? You cuz I haven't myself like I haven't been a voice for, like, I don't go to events for male survivors of sexual assault or, or those sorts of things. But what I have experienced is people reaching out to me privately saying, Wow, this happened to me too, you know, there's that me to movement and men and women people that I will close with, I'm not obviously gonna say their names or anything, but I was surprised. I never knew that about them. I didn't know that they were attacked, but they kept that in, you know, they kept that into their, their own private lives, maybe their family knew, but they didn't share it with anyone else. But because of me saying what I did on my on my big podcast, I always back it, people were coming out of the woodwork saying, wow, you know, me, too. This happened. And I was like, it was beautiful. You made a deeper the connection with people who I thought I already knew. Wow. No. So that's the thing. Like, I think this is really good question also, because, um, you know, first you kind of feel you feel like, you know, this is a initiative that is an issue. No, I don't, I don't do work in that. Number one, it's like it was too triggering. Number two, because, um, the, the, there's, there's, like, you know, domestic violence and I didn't fit even permit any of the organizations that were there great organizations that help like house, don't get around, that is horribly hard work to do horribly high burnout. It's very grueling work to do that kind of work. But um, there there's the area of like, when you when it's when it's, you have the domestic bad situation. And then when you have like, when, like court systems and things are enabling and are abusing are actually become the abuser after you leave your marriage or whatever, when you have a whole nother then those those organizations, there was no place for me, like I couldn't, because some of them, there's political connections, and there's things where they have to be careful and whatever I was like in a wasteland, and so I feel like for me, it's like, there's organizations we're going to talk to us about as well. Okay? Really how you get that's like a societal, you know, psychological familiarly, like, that is a deep sea that is like, what how, like, so I appreciate, you know, the tribe, but I couldn't find my place there. I would say I couldn't, even within that group I didn't fit in. And so that was really, that was really hard, because, you know, is a survivor, you want to find, you know, you feel you're not alone, and like we're gonna have helping who would understand me, but, and there is a group of people to like, there's that it was the way that I went through it, there is a thing about that. And if you're in this role, you understand who those people are, and they find each other. But I didn't know I couldn't find anybody. So I've always felt kind of a little isolated from that. That doesn't mean that people absolutely reach out to organizations, they should absolutely do things. But for me, personally, I couldn't find my footing. So what you did in your situation, like, seeing and having the people come to you that is like, that is a ministry? In a sense, what's a better word for that, right, like a way where you're telling your truth, that then people allows people to say their truth. So yeah, and my customers even have said to me, I've had the same thing happens like that. I can't believe I mean, there's a meaty movement and that stuff, no more so you kind of know, but how many people I'm like, Oh, my gosh, like, you know, sister, there's so many people out there that were have been through, you know, domestic violence and things like that, that were that it was like, I was stunned, like, kind of, like you were in it was like that I felt like, even just sitting with each other or just being able to have people say that and know that you're safe with me. And they could tell you I mean, I feel like that is, you know, a work in a sense, right? Yeah, totally. I don't feel like I don't feel obligated to go and like lead some group with men who have been abused or whatever. But and I don't think you have to, I think I just found that it was incredibly rewarding to just speak my truth and have other people speak their truth to me. And that was enough. And I mean, it's out there forever. Now it's on the internet, people can watch my story forever. And, you know, we will and I don't know what other platforms you've talked about yours. But like, you know, you've told me you're comfortable with it on this platform. So your story will be out there and you may have people reach out to you and I think we're both at the point now where we're we're at the point where we can talk about these things and and not lose their leg right and so like, that alone shows a lot of strength to people who've been through something similar or even just even if it's just trauma in general. So I agree I agree. I think that that's a really kind of organic way to like help heal each other and support each other and it's scary sometimes and vulnerable feeling and everything like that but but you know, doggone it like I said yeah life is this life is just this so like just be good to each other we all we all suffer so we just like you know, just be good to each other and support each other in in love each other. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Are there so thinking of like looking up to people and things like this is a hard to pivot off of but like are there people in your industry or companies in your industry that you idolize or look up to, they're like, You know what, like, you're doing the right thing. Like, you don't have to be a Patagonia or someone like, is there anyone out there that you're like, wow, I really admire what you're doing. And are there any companies or individuals that you're like that you analyze? And? Well, there are I mean, like this. Yeah, on both ends of things like, you know, you did mention Patagonia's, I will say, I will say in terms of the big companies like Patagonia, I do, I tip my hat to sort of I think, because because they I mean, they've covered they've had to really, when you're that Bay, and everything you're doing, you have to examine everything, like, are you going to really look at it and dive into and be serious about, you know, it's going to cost you a lot, you know, to make the pivot and, and everything. So, are you going to do it? Are you going to do it halfway, like you say, you know, I when the big companies like, Oh, I 3% of our this is 3% recycled materials? Like, not smart enough, you know, like, don't, so are you gonna do so Patagonia, you know, they do conservation, they, they, you know, will teach you how to repair their clothing, they will they want to keep the lifecycle the clothing good, which is like, you know, most companies, they want vintage routes that you buy more, right, like they're doing the things they, they also in terms of just like they're giving their employees, you know, from Christmas to New Year's off that so that even, that's an important part of, you know, coming, how do they treat their workers, you know, it's like people over profits and all this kind thing. So Patagonia's, I feel like I feel like they're, they are, you know, troubled by the issues that they're kind of business can create, and they're doing everything they can to console as a large company. I feel like they're, you know, that's admirable what they're doing, it can be a mall and model, right. And then in terms of, you know, there's a lot of they're kind of, like, lost for, like names right now. But there are a lot of earth friendly polling companies that are very passionate about being, you know, doing it the right way. And do it, you know, and so there are a lot of good people. So there are smaller, smaller companies, you can kind of, you know, yeah, Google those two. Yeah, was fascinating, just by Googling sustainable fashion hoops. Yeah. It's more and more, and just read their stories, read their stories and find out, you know, that that's, I always, whenever I go to website, I usually go the about page first. That's what I always do. Like, I like people's stories, and I want to know, what, what how did they get here? And what's their what's their deal? Why are they doing this? So, but there's a lot of people who really care a lot and and they're making, you know, good strides and good products. And like you said, the downfall that a little bit, just that you know, yeah, eco friendly fashion is does costs more, it does, it does cost a little bit more, but people you know, but you know, the longevity, that the way it feels on your body, you know how healthy it is for you for knowing that the workers are, you know, tinkered and that the planet is, you, we have to get to a point where we buy less, and we buy more thoughtfully, you know, just you know, when it's possible, it's not possible all the time, I try to make my keep my prices reasonable, because as I can and squeak by your words. Yeah, you gotta, like, make ends meet as well. Yeah, it's hard. It's hard go like, but I just, I want it to be accessible. And the product once you once you have it in you where you see it, and you touch it, you feel like, Oh, it's this really different. It's worth it. So hopefully, you know, Mike, my thought was, hopefully, you know, over time when it becomes the, that becomes the, you know, the fabric, the fabrics of choice, and, you know, the methods of manufacture of choice, everything, you know, that prices will, you know, go down, but it's still very much, you know, conventional cotton for examples, like, you know, it's cheap, like people, companies, like, you know, people even, you know, small business like you can I can tell them once or like, I'm not gonna make it if I do that, you know, but so whether I succeed or fail, I have to do it knowing that I did it the way that I thought was the right way. You know, but there are a lot of companies out there I would encourage people to look you know, and read their stories, find out where they're passionate, there's just some amazing people out there and they deserve your support. Yeah, well, where can people find you? So we are on our website is a barefoot eco.com and and we saw also we're on Facebook and on Instagram, and Twitter and all the same handles. I've tried to think at Bear I'll put them in the show notes if you don't remember them all. Yeah, pretty much it's pretty much barefoot Eagle Outfitters. Yeah, I think Twitter is VFL federal be epic, outfitters but um, but um, but yeah, um, yeah. Make sure that go to your website and read your about section it is great. That's where they should go first because we you know your business is is also your your life story and you have a great story and loving family that you that you run the business with, which is, I think, even more incredible. And then go check out the products. What are some of the products that you're most passionate about things that you're like I, if I have like two or three things that I want people to see or where they're most proud of what what are they? Oh, yeah, that's, I think I'm the ones that I really love and we're kind of getting sold out right now. Um, but, like, go check this see we've got shoe size wise is, um, our joggers are like, like kittens on a cloud, like they. They're so comfortable. And the hoodies are great. Our thermals are heavily thermals, because it's kind of that season right now. They're like, amazing, like, those are some of our best sellers. Are our, our T shirts are also I mean, they're just incredibly soft and comfortable. But for that, you know, we have leggings to that we've actually sold out of those now, but um, but like, yeah, the joggers in this in the hoodies are, and the thermals are especially seasonally right now, but there's those are probably some of the top sellers that yeah, and yeah, even the beanies are really soft. Here is everything is super soft, and you want to take it off. Yes, yes, that is 100%. Like, that's, that's like a driving force for me. Like, it has to feel Guney aware. Like, that's the thing we hear over and over and over again. It's just like, you know, I just live in the I love, you know, so um, so everything is really soft and comfortable. And that's kind of cool. And hopefully, when you see it, you put it on, you feel happy. That's you, you feel good. Unfortunately, it's probably too late for people to buy Christmas gifts, right? Yeah. But eco Outfitters. However, there's a lot of great things that are coming up down the pipeline of the year birthdays, who knows whatever is coming up. So make sure everyone go check them out. I know Tracy would be glad to have your business and is not only going for a good cause but towards a good good family and in and it's good product. I mean, we want to wear things that you're comfortable in that you know are made a good materials. So go check her out. Tracy, thank you so much for coming on the show and opening up with us about your your own life journey, the the things that you and your family have been through how it's led you into creating this brand that is in service of the planet. And I am so proud of you. And I'm anxious to check out your product myself, you know you you've made at least one customer. I have to see this, this cloud kitten or whatever, you kids. I love kittens, and so why not? Yeah, try that sound is a brilliant description. I hope you use that in your product. If not coined that as. And so yeah, thank you so much for taking the time to join me and I really appreciate it. Is there anything else that that we didn't cover that you want to throw out to the audience about your product or your life? Or? I don't think so. I mean, I think we had you know, I mean, if people have questions, I'm obviously always like, I love hearing from people and, and giving information, things like that, but I for me, like I just know I just really enjoyed this time to get and sit and talk with you. I've admired your photography for a long time I'm so glad we got connected on Instagram. And then as I got to know more about you your story and the just the person you are just being able to you know connect with like this other conservation minded person who's you know, so passionate and you know, he has a beautiful heart and I'm just excited to see everything that you're going to be doing even from from here on and with all your life experiences and everything to take that into your everything has to be doing so I just really thank you for honoring me with this moment and I really had a good time. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, so I will I will definitely be out in your neck of the woods at some point and we will have to do a hike. I want to see some of the places that you're describing it sounds incredible and you can count me in as one other person who will be the weirdo cleaning up stuff on the beach with you because I do that here I do that year and you on my blog it was like the very first thing I did when I moved in was I like saw the trash and it drove me nuts and so I made a point to to go out especially in the summer months when it's easy to do and clean up the trash at least once a month and just my straight up like it's something my father instilled in me he was adopt the highway back oh yeah, so like so I see that and and you're right when I walk around the neighborhood like two massive bags of trash and so I've only covered like two blocks and like I get the books from people that are like, What are you doing? Yeah. They don't know what to say like, whether if I look like I'm a homeless person or to say thank you like yeah, obviously dressed like I don't live on the street, but I'm carrying all this trash and they they they want to say thank you It's it's a weird thing, right? It is a weird thing. But it's good. It's good. Like, yeah, it's made I know it made a difference for someone somewhere they go that guy. Well, thank you for doing that as well the planet I know. Definitely thanks you for all that you're doing. And I in my audience, thank you for your time. So really my pleasure. Thanks so much, Derek. Absolutely. Thank you so much for joining us back here at the Art of actual change. I really hope you enjoyed today's episode Tracy. She was a fantastic guest, opened her heart up told us about the traumas of her life, being a domestic abuse survivor, and how she turned that awful situation into a beautiful thing with her family. Oh, they created a great fashion brand that's out there. Saving the planet. It's quite an inspiration. Check them out barefoot eco Outfitters. Please share this episode with anyone you feel like they could be useful for whether they're in the fashion world or they're a survivor of some kind of abuse or maybe just someone you know that can use therapy. We are out there just promoting a better planet, inside and out for each individual and are all the nature around us. Thank you so much for joining us. Share across every place you can think of and now you know what time it is go out there and make an actual change in your world or the world around you