Peace & Prosperity Podcast
In the Peace & Prosperity Podcast, Jason Phillips, licensed therapist and life coach, shares personal experiences that force you to think deeply about your values, beliefs, and behaviors to ensure you achieve peace, happiness, and success in your life.
Peace & Prosperity Podcast
Living Your Truth: Confidence as a Gay Black Man - Episode #53 w/ Monroe Howard
During this episode, Jason had the opportunity to have an in-depth discussion with Monroe Howard, LCSW and founder of Black Queer Healing Space.
Black Queer Healing Space is a space for Black Queer people to discover pathways to healing their trauma, hurts, and shame to live a liberated, bold, and beautiful life!
Monroe shared his healing journey, opened up about trauma, and how he works with his clients in his private practice.
Monroe Howard-Shackelford is a psychotherapist, licensed master social worker, motivational speaker, and educator. Monroe has translated his passion for education and mental health into a career spanning more than 20 years, increasing learning opportunities for education leaders and students and empowering youth, men of color, and members of the LGBTQIA community across the US. Inspired by his diagnosis of major depressive disorder, Monroe works to destigmatize mental health and promote psychoeducation and access to care in marginalized communities. He continues this effort as a therapist in private practice in Maryland and Virginia and as an adjunct faculty member at Montgomery College.
Be sure to follow Monroe on social media and let us know what you thoughts about the episode!
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/he_smiles/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/blackqueerhealingspace/
To stay connected with Jason and learn about coaching, connect with Jason on social media:
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jphillipsmsw/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/jphillipsmsw
Visit Jason's website for a consultation:
Website -https://www.jasonlphillips.com
Be sure to leave us a review if you enjoyed this episode!!!
I was the great student. I I was the president of the school. I was acting. I was singing. I was always in front. Right? I was always in front of church. I was known around my community to be a choir director nationally there were some opportunities for me to shine. Right? And so I started to build my worth into what I could present to people as the accomplishments.
Speaker 2:And
Speaker 1:Right. Here's my accomplishments. It's right. That pat on the back. Oh, my gosh. I know
Speaker 2:you enjoyed the episode, but I wanna say that maybe you've been listening to the episode and you're thinking, I would like to work on my confidence or I'm not happy where things are at in my life and I can benefit from talking to a professional. If that's you visit my website or click the link below schedule your consultation, and let's see if we're a good fit to work with each other. Alright. Now let's get back to the episode. Welcome y'all to another episode of The Peace and Prosperity podcast. Super excited for this episode. I got my brother, my role out in the building. This is someone who I've Now for probably a couple years now, like, time goes by. So probably, like, two or three years and really respect you, man, the work that you do the person that you are, how you show up, like your energy, all of that. So I'm gonna just say this. Hello.
Speaker 1:This energy like I sleep here. I have a brother, cheese, and and all that. Yeah. Thank you.
Speaker 2:I'll I'll hear poor man. I'll hear poor. But without further ado, well, introduce yourself that everybody know who you are.
Speaker 1:Alright, man. Listen. First of all, man, I'm so excited to be here with you. Everything you said, man, that goes right back to you, brother. So thank you. But I'm gonna roll, Howard. Originally from California, but I now reside in Washington, DC, the DMV. Yeah, man. And I'm a licensed master social worker. I'm out there Chris and private practice licensed in Maryland, Virginia, and doing some great work with our community primarily the LGBTQ community in the intersection of blackness and queerness.
Speaker 2:So Yeah.
Speaker 1:That's me.
Speaker 2:Man, you doing some great great work. Like, know we'll get into a lot of stuff, but I've had the opportunity to work with Monroe on a number of different just like platforms and just people gravitate towards you. It's like, oh, he's in the room. Like, my wife was like, tell them I said, what's up? I know she probably wanted to pop me here, but Yeah. So, man, it's it's really, like, great to come full circle to have, you know, have you on the show. And because you've been busy. You've been you've been on the West Coast. You've been on the East Coast. You've been out to cut. Like, you've been getting it in.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. The last six months, man, had been quite I traveled a lot in general, multiple personal business, but these last six months have been particularly, you know, hectic with my travel schedule. I'm currently home in DCE, and I'll be here for the next thirty five days, and I'm excited about it. But I've been handling some business. I'm originally from Sacramento, California, and my grandmother is aging, and my sister is the primary caretaker in Hasband for the last three years, man. And she's a mother and full time worker, and she's holding it down. She's the real MVP. So I've had to step up a little bit more and provide some more support. So that's brought me back to California once a month, sometimes a week, two weeks at a time. So you can imagine, you know, that back and forth, the time change, and still maintaining my work as a therapist, my work as a, you know, consultant, all of that kind of stuff, man. It's been it's been a little hectic. But Yeah. But I've dropped a few little pleasure trips in there, man. They went across the seas, you know, and and got a little Miami in there as well and some other domestic locations. So I try to try to fit it all in, you know, as much as ever in.
Speaker 2:No. That's a lot. That's a lot, you know, when you're going back and forth, especially when it's for a personal reason too. So you mentioned it your grandmother is your grandmother a big part of your life? Or what's that role that she played in your life?
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Absolutely, man. So I wasn't only child. I was my mother's only child. And unfortunately, man, my my mother died when I was twenty one years old. So it was obviously a a major devastation. Be still yet to date the biggest devastation of my life in terms of losing my angel, as I refer to her. And but my grandmother, this strong, beautiful black woman, who, I mean, man. Growing up, our grandmother wasn't the image of the woman in the kitchen, making the biscuits. She was she had the briefcase in the in the business and all going out have business. Right? So I learned a lot from her in terms of, you know, being a business individual, being an entrepreneur, enterprise minded, and then just seeing her kind of have multiple hustles. And yet studio holding it down in terms of being the rock, the matriarch for our family, she is now out of eight children friend. There are only two left. Her and her youngest sister, and she's eighty seven. We'll be turning eighty eight. In August. And unfortunately, she's dealing with earlier on, let's say Alzheimer's and dementia. And but, man, she's a thirty five year breast cancer survivor. She has done so much in this life, a one of God. So she has really laid a foundation and example for her entire family. She is someone I look up to. And in the passing of my mother, you know, while she didn't replace with my mom, it is definitely an honor to be able to still interact with the essence of my mother because that's a lot of who my mom was is the woman who I still get to interact with today and my grandmother. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Namely, I I was gonna ask you, like, what was your mom like?
Speaker 1:Man, let me tell you something. Alright. I I you see see, Nancy. Water works is going starting early on, but it's all good. I'm gonna let that follow-up a bit if it comes through. Man, but let me just tell you. My mother was such a wonderful, beautiful spirit. I'm gonna say is because her spirit still resides within me heavily and is with me daily, but you know, mask. She wasn't a flashy woman. She was a woman who enjoyed life. But the biggest lesson that I have carried on and legacy that she left me was a legacy of gratitude. She was a woman of gratitude. At every juncture regardless of what life was bringing her man. She was able to find gratitude in the situation. She was a woman of faith. Right? Not a religious woman, but a woman of faith. She identified as a Christian woman, but she was not stuck to the dogma, the, you know, farm physiology, but she was all about god's love and the love that Christ showed and that's what she showed to people without the expectation of recognition or reciprocation. But the thing is is that her deposits let me tell you something, man. Her deposits, I'm reaping the benefits. I reap the benefits of the things in which she poured into other people because people have poured into my life from day one until present day. And so I'm so grateful that I got twenty one years while it wasn't enough for me and my whole, you know, my selfish mind. It wasn't enough, man. I'm so grateful that I was able to experience twenty one years. And she lives with me. She's she's right here in my office. I have my private possession, you can't see it, but I have this picture hang of my desk of her and I. And it is something that goes with me everywhere And yeah, man. That's my mom
Speaker 2:paying. Yeah. No, man. That's that's beautiful. I think I don't know if we actually got into that because, you know, I lost my mom. I lost probably about thirty too or something. So I had a little more time. Yeah. So and and my mom, like and grandma, I don't know if I could turn the camera. You can't really see pictures, but
Speaker 1:I'm good at it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So, you know, I said, I think that's a really good similarity that we have and the fact that you said she's just was is a woman of gratitude and how she poured into you and you're still reaping the benefits. And also that means you say you're the only child So, like, if mom was gone I mean, you have a big family, but
Speaker 1:yeah. So I was my mother's only child. Right. My father was not in my life. Until I became an adult. And at that point, I found out I had siblings. And I had four of the siblings. Hops was out there. He was doing the same. Five of us all got five different moms. But I am happy to say that At twenty eight, I was able to establish a relationship with my father that has persisted and that has grown and has thrived, and he is a wonderful man who has completely turned his life around, and he gets to enjoy his children. He gets to enjoy his grandchildren. And so I'm so happy to be a part of that legacy as well. But, yeah, man, I have two older brothers, I have one older sister, and then I have a younger sister. But I have a sister who I was raised with that was my aunt's daughter. And we were we're first cousins, but we were raised more like brother and sisters. So that's who I refer to when I say my sister in Sacramento, who is caring for our grandmother because we don't see each other as cousins. So I do have siblings. None of us have the same mother.
Speaker 2:But four of
Speaker 1:us have five of us have the same father, and we have a beautiful relationship. Two of my siblings live in Phoenix with their families my other sibling, my youngest. She lives in Detroit with her family. What up, though?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's right. That's right. Right? Yeah. Oh, yeah. My father is from Detroit. Like, so they all all of my siblings grew up in Detroit. I was the only one. So my grandparents grandma and papa Shack. May they rest the peace? They are all Detroit. So I have a huge Shackle Ford family in Detroit. That's that's my father's last name.
Speaker 2:Okay. Okay. So I'm gonna ask you this before we get more into present day. So, like, you said you and your father reconnected at twenty eight and has been great. A lot of times we can harbor feelings because that parent is not there. How did you navigate that and form the relationship that y'all have today.
Speaker 1:Alright, man. I'm gonna I'm gonna go back a little bit. Right?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Go ahead. Go ahead.
Speaker 1:There's there's some things in here. Right? So growing up as a young black boy in a single parent household with a black mother who did everything like to provide the most beautiful foundation of love and family and security and and validation and assurance. Right? I I longed for nothing. Right? Mhmm. But I didn't have my father. Didn't have my father in the home, and that made me very angry as a child. And I would have these huge outbursts And there was also I was dealing with my sexual identity in my excuse me, my my sexual orientation. Right? Mhmm. Always identified as a cis gender you know, young men and boy and men. And so I always felt I was in the right and body in terms of biologically, but in terms of sexual orientation, I knew that I had an attraction to boys and and, you know, eventually men and and not what was what was the standard in which I was raised in terms of cisgender and hetero normative environment, both in my community, in my school, in my church, It was nowhere. Even in my family. Right? I didn't know anybody who was queer in my family. So there was also a lot of resentment when I was young because I felt like the absence of my father contributed to me being different -- Mhmm. -- being forecast. And in an outcast, in my own head, because I was not open about my feelings or about the exploration and all of that kind of stuff around my sexual orientation. But inside, I felt like everyone knew, everyone was looking, everyone was talking, and so it caused me to have to perform masculinity like early on. So I was hyper super aware, right, around, like, the mannerisms, the things that I would say, all this other kind of stuff because I was trying to protect that part of me. At the same time, I was angry about the fact that I didn't have a man in the house that I felt like could teach me those things. So I felt like I was having to learn them all on my own. So now what happens is is that as wonderful as my mother is and was. Right? Mhmm. I started to harbor anger and resentment towards her. Because early on and younger. Right? I'm like, well, why why isn't my father here and, like, all these kind of questions? And my father was a alcoholic, a drug addict for pretty much thirty plus years of his life. Right? Mhmm. And my father was not a healthy person for me to be around. And my mother never kept me from him ever never ever ever but she was very protective of her child and saying that for her and her child, she did not want me to be subjected to that environment. Right?
Speaker 2:That's the same environment. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I didn't understand that as a child. All I can do is that my father wasn't there. And that made me angry and resentful. But I went to counseling. My mom was really concerned about, you know, me having these rages and these outbursts. And it was he was, you know, mixed in with How how
Speaker 2:were you? When you talk about these outbursts.
Speaker 1:To counseling, oh, so I was having these outbursts from, like, seven to, like, fourteen. Right? Mhmm. I went to counseling at twelve.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:And that's where I really kinda started to explore not the sexual orientation or the sexuality right there, but I started to explore my feelings about having a thought, not having a father in the home. And that really kinda helped me start to develop language and to just be able to have an outlet, a more constructive outlet to talk through while I was angry. At fourteen years old, I was able to release that anger that I was having towards my mom and I tell you something. This is how God works, man.
Speaker 2:Go ahead.
Speaker 1:At fourteen, I was able to release that. At seventeen, she came to me and said she was diagnosed with breast cancer. Mhmm. At twenty one, I lost her. Mhmm. So when I think about the wonderful life that I had with my mother, even in those times when I was, you know, expressing some anger towards her, I'm so grateful that I was able to release that so that it did not characterize these these impactful years of my life, especially through adolescence and going into young adulthood. And I was just able to have this beautiful relationship with my mom that was absent of the resentment or the anger that I once
Speaker 2:held -- Yeah.
Speaker 1:-- because of the situation with my father. And the thing about it was because my father was not present at all, there was really no anger to direct at him.
Speaker 2:Right. So your mom caught the brunt of it until she did about fourteen. So from fourteen to twenty one, now you all were able to have a really thriving, beautiful relationship. So -- Absolutely.
Speaker 1:--
Speaker 2:when she passed, you were able to all those feelings had been resolved.
Speaker 1:No regrets, man. No regrets.
Speaker 2:That yeah.
Speaker 1:There was there was no shortage of I love you. There was no shortage of the the action of I love you. Both ways. Our relationship was something that I cherish to this day, and it's something that I anchor myself in, in terms of how I even relate to others. Mhmm. So so yeah, man. But then at shortly after she passed away is when I connected to my father. As an adult, at twenty two years old. That's where I'm when I met my brothers and sisters, my my father was still an alcoholic. He was still a drug addict at that time. And it took him another six years to get clean. So at twenty eight is that's when I the relationship that we have today.
Speaker 2:Wow. So let me go back though because at twelve, you went to counseling for the first time. And you had a successful run with counseling because sometimes You know, as therapists, we know eleven, twelve, thirteen year olds coming to our office. They could go either way. So what was it about that that experience that helped you?
Speaker 1:So first of all, it was a familiar face. So the church that I grew up in Antioch, progressive church in Sacramento, California, a shout out to my Antioch family We got there when I was six years old, and I was there until I was eighteen. And we actually just recently buried our pastor, doctor Curtis j Mitchell, about four weeks ago. But his wife, sister Kay, she was a social worker. And our church had launched a a foster agency, and she was the executive director of the foster agency. So she was the one that I went through counseling that my mom sought out -- Oh. -- accounts. So first of all, there was a fear based. Right? And this woman this woman of God was just radiant he's like radiating, like, love, and warmth. And so immediately, there was a connection for me that didn't feel foreign. So there was a level of transparency that I was able to even at that age, I was able to, you know, exhibit because I knew her. And I trusted her. Right? And so that really helped. And then, of course, her approach that wasn't Here we go, as a pastor's wife, but yet still the social worker, she did not overlay this like religious dogma onto how she was speaking to me. But yet, she was able to infuse spiritual principles that I was familiar with and couldn't get to
Speaker 2:So But she could hit you with it without going straight at you.
Speaker 1:So I didn't feel judged.
Speaker 2:There you
Speaker 1:go. I didn't feel judged. Right? And she listened to me and she heard me out. Right? And I think that was something else because, you know, a lot of people grow up in this, you know, dynamic of children are to be seen and not heard. Right. But she approached me as a person with whole feelings, with experiences, and with valid emotions. And that set it up for me. Yeah. Able to open up and say, this is what I'm fitterling. Even if I didn't really have the language in the beginning, to say and I could just articulate it in a way that made sense to me and she was able to help me kind of work through that.
Speaker 2:So how important was it for her to help you because you have a strong relationship with God, your higher power, your faith. So even throughout everything that you've been through, it seems like you're your faith in god has not wavered. Is that is that accurate?
Speaker 1:Or my faith in god has never wavered. My relationship with god has evolved. Okay? So my faith in God has never wavered. My relationship with God has evolved because you have to understand too. Now let's go back to again the intersection of sexual orientation. Right?
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Right. If you're growing up in a context that says, heterosexuality is right. Homosexuality is wrong. Mhmm. There is this inherent belief that starts to develop that you are not right with god. K? Mhmm. And that this was my journey that you are not right with god. I grew up singing in the choir. I was a choir director at music ministry. It has always been a part of my my journey. And there was this there was this this thing I could not reconcile with the giftedness that I knew was of God and from God and the way in which I was use it my gift, the way in which it would bless me and bless others. I'm like, wait a minute. But how can god be angry with me? How can god not like me or love me, and it was this this thing that took me into adulthood to have to be able to reconcile. Right? But but I was still under the impression that because of who I was in terms of my attraction and who I loved or who I wanted to be romantically involved with, somehow some way God was like, no, you're a mistake. You are not pleased. So that's where I say, like, God continued to hold me. God helped me through major transitions of my life. God helped me through the worst experience ever of losing my mom. God help me through domestic violence situations. God help me through molestation. God help me God help me through so many transitions and so many traumas of my life and yet continue to sustain me and bless me. So my faith never wavered, but I had to evolve my relationship because as I grew into my own understanding, my own study, my own experience of revelation, god's root my relationship became my own and not through someone else. Man,
Speaker 2:So, Monroe, let's go back then. You, you know, you're young, you're starting to figure out that you have an attraction to boys and you feel like this is not of what you see normal on TV and in school. How did you decide, hey, I need to process this or talk to somebody. Who was the first person that you shared this with?
Speaker 1:Wow. Who was the first person that I shared this with? I'm trying to think even if, like, at a young age, was I even able to share this with? I don't really think I was able to share this with anybody at a young age because again, I was that was the secret that I had to guard at all costs. And anyone who would ever use the f word against me anyone who would ever, you know, say, oh, you gay or that's gay. Right? It would cut me to the bone. Mhmm. Because I was trying to figure out what am I not doing right to be able to conceal this. Wait a minute. I thought I thought I calculated that. I I thought I I thought that through what mannerism? What what did I say? How did I do this? How did I move? And it was exhausting. It was exhausting. And I still didn't feel safe as a young person to be able to have that conversation. I didn't have the conversation with anyone until I was actually experiencing my first heartbreak with a man -- Mhmm. -- when I was nineteen years old and he was older. He was in his thirties. And I was away at college, but I was coming back and I was My nose is wide open for the game. Yeah. It opened. I had never experienced a heartbreak because listen, brother took me through it and shout out to him because we are, like, that's my heart to this day. Yeah. So there's there's power and reconciliation. There's power and love. Right? But he know he took me through it. Right? And I was at a point of heartbreak where I actually could not not shared this with somebody, and I shared it with my mom.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah. So your mom will get your mom will still alive at that. Okay. So she was the first So so for eighteen years, you say you were performing.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. And and beyond that -- Right. Even as I was evolving, it didn't stop at eighteen, you know. It it's it's not until my thirties when I actually really fully came into my level of comfort with with who up I am. Right? But Man.
Speaker 2:But so okay. So, man, I got so many questions right now.
Speaker 1:You didn't know he was opening the door.
Speaker 2:Right. So from where I'm going next is you now are very confident, you're you're a speaker and a therapist, like so all of those times where you were cut when people called you out your name or they they were like, hey, are you are you gay or they're like, it's like daggers. So all these cuts, how did you heal that?
Speaker 1:Continue to perform and continue to achieve I was the great student. I was the president of the school. I was acting. I was singing. I was always in front. Right? I was always in front of the church. I was known around my community to be a choir director nationally, there were some opportunities for me to shine. Right? And so I started to build my worth into what I could present to people as the accomplishments. And -- Right. -- here's my accomplish with it. It's right. That pat on the back. Oh my god. I'm gonna roll. Oh, you're so good. One. Right? And these were the things that made me say I was okay. Even in my sin. Even in my shame. Even if I'm okay. So if you just keep performing, We just keep performing. If you just keep doing. If you just keep achieving. If you just keep accomplishing. Let me tell you how deep it went. My mom died at the age of twenty one. I was at UC Berkeley. She was forty nine. I was twenty one. I was at UC Berkeley. Going into getting ready to go literally, I think I started the first week of the semester, the ball semester, she passed, completely unfocused. And I was like, I got a withdrawal. I withdrew and I moved to Atlanta, Georgia. Three months, three or four months after she passed. Right? But I was still on this quest to let people know that I'm okay. I can do this. No. I bounce back. I land on my feet. I do that. So I'm in Atlanta, and I'm like, you know, yo, I'm I'm a buy my first house. I'm a buy my first house at twenty three. Right? And -- Oh, wow. -- I'm a rose. Ro's out here, he's doing it. Right? I bought another house ten months later. Right? And then I bought more houses until I was up to eight homes in Atlanta. Then I had two homes in California that my mom had left me through her hard work and her legacy, but I had overextended myself Okay. I was not dealing with myself because all I was focused in on was how can I show people that I'm worthy, that I'm good, that I can accomplish things, And so even if they were to start to find out that I was gay, even if they were start to find out that I was with dudes? But but but look, But look
Speaker 2:look look at
Speaker 1:what I've done. Look at the resume. Look at the list and that's where I was at.
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Speaker 1:How are you gonna keep this up? Mhmm. You have bought all these houses. You're running out of money. You have overextended yourself. You made some decisions that weren't in your best favor and interests. How are you going to maintain this? You have established a persona that you have it all together. You have established a persona that you are the one who helps others. Others don't help you. So you now how are you gonna maintain all this when you are hurting? Right? When you were about to lose at all? And, you know, and so it was this this constant cycle of really trying to figure out how to maintain. You know my thing that I always said, I'll figure it out.
Speaker 2:So was was there a break in point?
Speaker 1:Yeah. I mean, I had several break in points. One of them was two thousand and six when I had you know, quit a job, you know, a couple of years before, went out, you know, on my own, maintaining these properties, but I kept buying properties. But still not yet amassing more capital and resources, the market crash, and then I'm over here trying to hold on to properties. So I'm like, I'm hemorrhaging money -- Mhmm. -- you know, like, just losing all this money, then I'm in a very toxic relationship and it turned violent and I'm now in places and spaces that I thought I would never be in where police are being called to my house and this purpose is being arrested and then I'm having to go and advocate on their behalf because I'm yet still worried about protecting their image. Right? We're both DL. We're trying to maintain these covers. Like, man bro, I'm telling you, and I'm running out of money, I'm dealing with a very controlling individual. Right? There's violence involved. I'm still trying to maintain an image of heterosexuality to several people. Most of the people in my life. I'm about twenty six years old, and I broke, man. And I broke. And I had to let go, voluntarily repossess my car, let go of some of the houses, man, my primary home. I had to move out and rent that out. And I have to go back to California. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Then, certainly,
Speaker 1:we'll start all over.
Speaker 2:So I hear the the tangible items and the assets, you know, getting repossessed or, you know, you say, hey, I can't handle this. Maybe you do bank bankruptcy, whatever. I understand that piece. We've seen that play out publicly for a lot of celebrities and athletes. But what about from an emotional standpoint? Well, What did that look like from a breaking point?
Speaker 1:You know, I think the biggest thing that I really was contending with was Shane. Was shame on multiple levels. Shame that I had, one, we're still dealing with the remnants of does God even approve of me, except for me? Is all of this happening because I'm gay? Right? Is all of this happening because I'm out of the will of God? I am dealing with the shame of building up and now losing it all. Right? Yeah. So I think the weight of shame for me and and thankfully, I'm gonna say didn't manifest into substance use or abuse, but they did manifest into Unhealthy sexual practices is what I'm saying. Right? I told you at the beginning this Summit Open Book, and it's the reason why I got to this place as a therapist. But I was putting myself in some very precarious and dangerous situations and really trying to be just deal with the feeling of powerlessness, deal with of the void because I was not yet stopping to just be with myself to really deal with my myself. I don't think I had yet really grieved the the loss of my mother because I just kept going. I just kept doing. I just kept performing. And I kept building up all of these things that required so much of me Right? But I wasn't yet equipped emotionally. I wasn't yet equipped. And I'm gonna say this lightly because When I say I wasn't equipped emotionally, I wasn't equipped mentally to really deal with it and handle it, I say that light because I actually did deal with it. I actually did handle it, but I will say not in the most constructive way.
Speaker 2:Right. Right. You got through it.
Speaker 1:I got through it. I got through it. And I thankfully got through it. Without some major consequences that Wright could have prevented me from beating or doing certain things later on in life. Right? Yeah. But there were just some, like, really, really low and dark days this loneliness of feeling like I can't really tell someone the whole truth, the whole story.
Speaker 2:Even if
Speaker 1:I give them a little bit, I'm still concealing something, and that was a lonely space to be in.
Speaker 2:So when you were, you know, up until, like, you know, late twenties or whatnot, are people asking you, like, okay, where you know, who are you dating? Like, who are you looking at? Because Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. You know, I mean, I'm a handsome brother. Right.
Speaker 2:I can't explain on him.
Speaker 1:I'm driving driving. I'm I'm driving of my first luxury car. I'm driving Mercedes, folks, and all I got -- Yeah. -- I got multiple houses and they lie, bro. You know, my straight friends are like, oh, bro, I know you pulling them out.
Speaker 2:Right. Yeah. So I'm like
Speaker 1:lo and behold, bro, you know, I'm out here for the dude. Right? Yeah. But
Speaker 2:but it was but
Speaker 1:it was this assumption. I think, also, there's there's this, you know, there's this thing in terms of, like, passing. So, you know, in terms of this part of my identity, it's not really a salient part unless I I tell you. You know, I walk into the room, you assume I'm a man by you know, what you associate with, you know, man and gender and, you know, biology. Right? You assume I'm black because you see the color of my skin. But maybe the way in which I present masculinity, you may not, one hundred percent, assume that I'm gay, that I'm clear. Right? So there was a a level of assimilation that -- Okay. -- I was able to kind of access when it came to heterosexuality and heteronormativity. So I was aware of that, and I also used that in certain situations at times. So even though I wasn't outright line, like, oh, yeah. You know what? I'm not gonna bounce. Okay. Very vague. I'm being very vague. I'm not using pronouns if I'm talking about someone who I'm dating. You know what I'm saying? And I did get into a relationship in my mid twenties with a wonderful, beautiful woman, but it was at the time that I was really actually at my breaking point And it was and it was at the time when I was like, god, what I'm doing ain't working. So it must be attached to my sexual orientation and this thing with dudes. So listen, I'm a I'm a I'm a do a one eighty and it's me and her. And we were together for three years, and she knew about me. Right? I'll say, no. Yeah. But also there was this overlay of, like, spirituality and deliverance that both Per and I were working off of -- Mhmm. -- that said, I am on this road of deliverance from this and that this is, you know, this is my I this is the will of God and this is the journey. And and brother, that that ain't it.
Speaker 2:That wasn't right. I mean, I guess, you you know that that clip that me were the guys in church. He's like, I don't like me anymore. Thank you.
Speaker 1:I love women's women's women's. Yes. I know that well.
Speaker 2:So it's like that's where she was thinking that, okay, we're gonna get to that point and you like, This is not this is a spiritual kind.
Speaker 1:Well, I believed it because I wanted to believe it. I wanted to believe it. I wanted it to believe that if I just was straight, then my life would get better. And what I didn't know at the time that I know now is that if I dealt with myself, If I leaned into my authenticity, if I dealt with my healing journey and started that, that's would would improve my life experience. And that's where I live today at forty two. But at twenty six, because of what I was spread to believe that my life was based on who I loved.
Speaker 2:Brow, you just brought it full circle. I mean, I know this is helping so many people. And I wanna get to I guess we gotta fast forward to you now or kinda like getting into the therapy. Like, we'll brought you to be a therapist. Like, how did you even say or a social worker? How did that come about?
Speaker 1:Well, I had when I moved back to California in two thousand and six, I started my journey in nonprofit leadership and also K-twelve school district administration. So I did that for a while. And there was a point where I said I need to make a change. I'm ready for a transition, so I decided to go to graduate school, which led me to New York.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I went to NYU for graduate school. And at that time, the plan was go to the NYU. I did a dual master, so I did a masters in social work, and I did a masters in public administration. Because I said, I'm gonna go back into nonprofit leadership, I'll listen to an executive director position, or I'm gonna go back into the k twelve school system, public system, and I will ascend to a superintendent. Right? I had no intention. It's twenty sixteen when I started graduate. I had no intention of becoming a clinician. No intention. I didn't wanna be a social worker. I chose social work Because number one, I saw the vast opportunities from an MSW, from everything, from policy, to, you know, research, to, you know, be safe and critical, all of that, like, anything. Right? And then also, I wanted to, as a leader, an organizational leader, or a a education system leader, I wanted to be more rooted in, right, the impacts -- Mhmm. -- of of environmental impacts on the communities that we serve. That was the intention, not to be a clinician. Well, in graduate school, I had a breakdown. We'll have In graduate. I had a moment where I was still doing the Monro thing where I'm I got everything. I'm a homeowner in New Jersey. I'm working full time back because I had to. Right? Because that's a whole another conversation we can have about our experience. Black folks, not a trust fund and without a safety net, going to a sixty thousand dollar a year program or institution at NYU and still having to maintain life. I'm an adult now. I'm thirty six years old. Right? I got responsibilities. And ain't nobody putting those things from me. Right? So working for free in terms of these internships and everything.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1:Was not the business. So I had to go back to work my second year full time as a senior director, major New York agency and still be in school full time. Right? And maintain the things. Now here's my part,
Speaker 2:the
Speaker 1:things that I am asked. The things that I was still trying to show the world that I'm good. I'm okay. Right? I got this, but I didn't have the bandwidth and capacity to do it all. In that way. And so I began to crumble. And I was dealing with the residual the residue of a relationship, a significant relationship that I had left in California that really had a major impact on me, and I was grieving that relationship, but I wasn't grieving in the most productive way. Mhmm. Because, again, I was still accessing that part of me, that that void and that powerlessness through unsafe, you know, practices and putting myself in really precarious situations. And and let me be very clear because I'm very sex positive in my practice and in my personal life. So it's not about having multiple partners. It's not a judgment around someone's sexual orientation or anything like that when I say putting myself in precarious situations. But it was me not valuing me. It was me not valuing me. And me being unsafe in the things in which I was doing that could bring me harm. So that's what I mean. I just wanna be clear.
Speaker 2:No. No. I'm glad you made that delineate.
Speaker 1:Every time I see you in focus, you're in focus. Right? Because that's what we use sometimes. Yeah. So I just wanna be quick. But anyway, so that was happening. And I was I was I was cracking, man. I was cracking. And you know the demands of higher education and and I just couldn't bring I couldn't keep it all together. So I had a major mental breakdown, and I had to take some time off from school, not long, but I had to take some time off from work. And I had to go into an outpatient intensive thirty day treatment. You know, I had to that was the first time ever. I had to, you know, take medication. And I did that, but grudgingly, but I knew at that moment I needed something else. I couldn't wheel myself. I couldn't think myself out of this.
Speaker 2:So there are people who who are sometimes on the fence about receiving one counseling in general, then any type of inpatient help. And then he's talking about somewhat of a long term intensive outpatient or intensive in patient setting. How did you make the decision? Like, you know what? Monroe, you just gotta do this. Like, what How did you come to that conclusion?
Speaker 1:Because I had come to the end of what I need to do. I had come to the I must say this again. I had come to the end of what I knew to do. All the things that I had done to get myself out of this, and get myself into this, and do this, maintain their hissing. You know, damage control of this was no longer effective. It was never effective, but it was no longer piecing it together and taping it together. When I started to believe --
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:-- that it would be better that I was no longer alive, That's what I'm doing. Man, you you need help. You need help in a way that is transformative and that is sustainable. No more quick fixes. No more avoidance. Because you were bet
Speaker 2:it sounds like you were putting Band Days on it and but you were just not Band Days. It sounds like you had some nice ass Band Days. If I may say, like, you know,
Speaker 1:luxury cars, luxury cars, UberConference shoes. Right? Bank account overdrawn?
Speaker 2:Yes. It
Speaker 1:is. But I but I I was maintaining it. Right. You know, got my condo and all this other kind of stuff, man, because it like you said, beautiful bounding.
Speaker 2:Band
Speaker 1:Aid. Beautiful bounding. Right?
Speaker 2:Because every time you talk you talk about the house, I'm like, man, did my road ever rent or have a roommate? Because it's it's like no.
Speaker 1:I I became a homeowner at twenty three years old.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:This house that I live in now is my fifteenth house that I purchased. Man.
Speaker 2:So if you know if you need a therapist who know how to buy houses, look up more
Speaker 1:but out of fifteen, I had lost eight. Right? Out of fifteen, I've lost eight. I've sold others. Mhmm. I now own two. Right? So I'm grateful for where I'm at. But when I say all that because people like to see the resume. Oh, bro, you bought fifteen houses, but you do, if you don't, get the full story. You won't know the cost. You won't know the journey. You won't know the real which is what is important, and we glaze over that. And I wanted people to glaze over that at one point. Now I'm like, no. Have a seat real quick. Let me tell you.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Nice on do is believe that I got here and it was this straight journey. Very much on the contrary. But I'm here. I'm here now. I'm here and I'm grateful.
Speaker 2:So now you're here. You've decided know, you're in a social work, you take the time off to get better, and how do you make that decision to become a clinician?
Speaker 1:Still took me three years after graduate school. This is. Okay. Come a quiz because I was like Yeah. But what happened is is that I had, first of all, a transition in what I wanted life to look like. So in graduate school, I decided that I no longer was interested in going back into organizations and managing people, managing, you know, departments or movements and all that kind of stuff. I want it to be an individual contributor. Because I wanted more flexibility and autonomy of my time. I wanted more opportunities to travel. And this was before COVID, I wanted to work remotely. Like, I wonder Oh, yeah. Yep. Mhmm. I wonder what's attached to the flexibility in the autonomy. Right? And I put those intentions into the atmosphere, and those things manifested for me in a job right after graduate school. It wasn't as a clinician, but it was as a consultant and I was working with contracted with the military and I was going into classrooms on the basis observing children writing up recommendations for how to work with them. Right? And then training training those classroom teachers. Right? But I hated the administrative portion of it in writing these long ass reports, and I was like, no. That it this ain't it either. Yeah. So then I went into life coaching. And I was Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:That that was that was a after I resigned from that job, I was in this place in space like, okay, god. I'm out here. Now, what do I do? How would I do? And so I started creating inspirational videos on Instagram. And just started being transparent about my journey, about my calendar. I just started talking about what I had gone through and the things that I'm still developing or going through in in some places and places where I'm in a much better place and it started resonating with people. And then somebody eventually reached out because I started doing interviews and people like, hey, can you tell us more about my? To my reach out and say, hey, would you be my life coach? And I was like, before I could say no, my spirit said yes. And I said yes. I said yes. And that was my first client. And then I built that business And then my ex partner at the time, and that's probably a new revelation to you. I don't know if I told you that, but I'm
Speaker 2:I'm single. Okay. I didn't know that. So thank you for keeping me up to date. Yeah.
Speaker 1:We can talk offline. Yeah. Yeah. That's on my ex partner and I were moving to making a transition here to DMV. And that's when I say, listen. Go all the way in. Go get licensed. Because I was getting confirmation along the way that your experience, your expertise, your perspective, the unique intersection of your identity as an asset to this mental health community, you've got the the credentials. Right? Go ahead and do it. Go ahead and do it. And that's what I did. And that's what I did.
Speaker 2:I did not know you were a life coach first. You know, I'm a life coach too, so I didn't know that you were man, this has been dope. So, now, let's kinda get into some of the work that you're doing now. Like, one, your story. Again, hearing it. Like, right now, it just moves me, and I know it's gonna move so many other people too. So when you're working with your your clients, like, who's the population that you specialize in or with?
Speaker 1:LGBT q plus black folks. Mhmm. You know, eighty five percent of my client will identify somewhere along this the the queer spectrum, primarily gay as they identify gay and primarily a cisgender black man. So if you wanna talk about the niche or the sweet spot, that's where it's at. But I also have several clients who identify as transgender. And I also work with cisgender, heterosexual individuals as well, but primarily black gay man.
Speaker 2:Now, what makes your niche so important and effective? I think I I wanna know that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I think just first of all, the access to individuals who identify as black and queer. Black queer men, I know from my own personal experience, I did when I was seeking a therapist, I wasn't able to easily or readily access someone who identified as such. So number one, I think that is, you know, a relevancy that brings me to the forefront for a lot of individuals who are seeking that. And I think also then just me and my level of transparency. Right? You know, when we go to social work school, this thing about disclosure, you know, is And and those things boundaries are very important in my practice, and I practice them every single day. But I am not a robot. I am not someone who comes to this worker, to this space without an experience, without a past, without a present. And where appropriate, you know, disclosure really helps therapeutic relationship and really kind of breaking down some of those barriers and walls so that people know that the person that they are speaking with not only can empathize and and, you know, in a way in which we can all empathize, but someone who can identify and what they are going through and with, and I think that creates a level of comfort really does kind of help that healing process in that therapeutic journey.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I was talking to somebody earlier who was talking about, you know, how they saw therapist and had different coaches. And they made a big point to say, I I wanted to work with somebody who not only could help me with the skill set, but who had been through the similar things. And that was like a a turning point. And we talked I don't know if it was during the conversation or beforehand, but with us, especially black man. But having somebody that looks like you is the singular most important part, of that therapeutic process. Do you understand me? Do I have to break things down? Are you gonna judge or misdiagnose? So for you, to be a part of the LGBT community that has to speak volumes with your patients and has helped really expedite the therapeutic report.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And it's the population that I'm proud to be a member of the community It is the population that I am definitely most passionate about because everything that you just heard me to talk about. Yeah. Right? Is is what got me to this point and to be part of someone else's journey to help give some perspective to help give some insight, to help make some discoveries alongside of someone in their journey like, yo, that is me pouring back into the blessings things in which I feel, right, that I am reaping and the benefits of. You know? So -- Yeah. -- absolutely. It's a it's a calling. It's a passion to be here.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Man, and I I know you've done so much work, right, as a therapist, but also as a speaker, like, talk about what that's been like, to help people on a larger scale.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Listen, man. That's my that's my I felt old, but I was gonna say, that's
Speaker 2:my thing.
Speaker 1:Right? But, like, that's my thing, bro. Like, I love to communicate whether it'd be one on one or whether it'd be, you know, like, this me and you, I could do this with you all day.
Speaker 2:I know. I know. Yeah.
Speaker 1:That competes So that translates to being on the stage. Mhmm. Because I really do feel like and here's the thing. Because this was something that I doubted for so long, but now I am more confident in it. My voice has a place in space in this world. Definitely. And I think a lot of us really struggle with that in many different ways. No matter how might we might be masking it with -- Mhmm. -- the presentation of confidence. And I know you are as experts. I know you can talk about this all day long. Right? But I really do believe now that my voice my unique voice has a place and space in this world and that it is there to impact and to speak to somebody.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Right? I got caught up on, like, well, is it resonating with enough people in life? But I'm seeing everybody that's so comparison. Well, they could get these followers, and I'm just like, when it came down to it, I was like, every time I speak, every time I present, if there is just one person that can walk away with something to say, damn, I am so glad that I was able to hear that from him will be good. We're good to hear
Speaker 2:you. And you know as being a confidence expert, what helped me was really, really, really, like, peripheral, being myself. You know, we share stages together. And you definitely you know, we have different ways of articulating and communicating but having to be comfortable with this is me, and this is Monroe. And this is, you know, John or Randy, whomever and and owning that and knowing that I can still show up and be me not have to worry so much because, I mean, we still have worries and concerns. But still be effective. Be authentic. And that's when people be like, you know what? I appreciate that. Whether you're yelling, whether you're more don't say monotone, but just, you know, diff everybody has a different approach. Yep. And I think
Speaker 1:it just speaks to the diversity of humanity Debt. The people that you reach are people that you reach. The people that I reach are the people that I reach. And so because they all exist in humanity, why would I count myself out and say that I am not as worthy to be on this platform or these stages as my brother sit next to me. He's reaching the people he need to reach. I'm reaching the people that I need to reach, and we both gonna get this.
Speaker 2:Like -- Yeah. Yeah. -- we
Speaker 1:both going to grow from the experiences and the and the the most important thing is that people are being reached. People are being
Speaker 2:Period. Period. And we're gonna reach some of the same people too. Yeah. Absolutely. So last question. What is next for Monroe. Like, what do you have? You see your your life going in per personally and professionally?
Speaker 1:Yeah, man. Personally, I'll start with that. You know, and I mentioned to you, and again, you know, I was one of the major transitions on my life recently is that the uncoupling of of my relationship relationship that got cherished. But, again, we did it in love and and with respect with one another, and so I'm I'm very proud to say that I have a person in my life who will forever be a major part of my heart, and I feel the same is is for him. So going forward, I I look forward to eventually being partnered again at some point, but I think the next major iteration of my family is adoption. Come a thought. So I would say within the next two to three years, that is definitely something I will be intentional and actionable about seeing that manifestation of that professionally. You know, I want to continue to expand my brand as a speaker, as a presenter, I want to be an author. And and transparently, that's something I'm working through right now in terms of my fear around putting out publishing and putting out the publications. And I'm working with my therapist on that. I'm very comfortable with oration. Right?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Very comfortable with speaking. But I've got some fears and insecurities through, you know, what they don't think. Because now they can just pick it apart and, you know, and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. That's that's my truth. And that's all good. We're gonna we're gonna get through that, but that's where I'm at now. But I aspire to be an author and to create materials that people can access at will, people can access on demand, and and that can again be because I think about capacity a lot. I'm one person. Yeah. This is working by doing my private practice. While it is transformative, it's life changing, it can also be draining.
Speaker 2:You know Yeah. For sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And there is there is a life life balance. There is a life fulfillment and experience that I wanna have, that I want to be open to, especially when I'm talking about bringing children into it, that that I want to make sure that I have the capacity to do so. So I should I'm moving into this direction of being able to speak more on larger platforms being able to get publications out there -- Mhmm. -- is something that is going to afford me the resources both monetarily and both emotionally and spiritually and physically to be able to live this life that I live now and that I can want to continue to live.
Speaker 2:Well, when you when you wrapped up, I was like, man, I could see you being the the quiet quiet director music. Whereas, like, you just you orchestrate in everything. Isn't Isn't I'm just sitting here, like, no. No. No. No. You you're over there. I've got a whole big old choir, but no, seriously. Almost lost my train of thought with that one because I just saw it. We were talking about you wrapping up, speaking, I know luxury is is is you, you're gonna do everything greatness. Oh, that's all I'm gonna say, man. So, like halfway through, I was saying, like, Morossa, definitely write a book, like, I was I didn't say it like you were talking, but, man, is there anything that we didn't cover or did you want people? Oh, that's my bad. Are you taking new clients? That's the question.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I will say this. I'm pretty much at capacity. I'm probably a little overcapacity. That's alright. It's long as But I always want to encourage, and I'm gonna be mhmm. It's not all here about specifically the Black queer population to reach out to me because I again understand the complexities and really accessing -- Mhmm. -- care through someone like me. And so if it is not me, I am currently building a network and a referral network of individuals who identify as I do that if I can't particularly walk with you and work with you, then I wanna be able to refer you to someone who can. So Yeah. I am going to encourage people to continue to reach out to me to seek services. And as as I'm terminating relationships with other clients, you know, space opens up and opportunities for yeah. Please please still reach out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man. That's the hard part when when you're you got a specialty, you're good, like, it's it's tough. And then you wanna help everybody So that's what I was saying. I'm gonna ask them, but I'm pretty sure it's it's tight. But no, Moroche, it's
Speaker 1:tight.
Speaker 2:This has been a huge man opportunity and blessing for me to to be able to talk with you. Like I say, I'm gonna send this out to so many people. If you know somebody, you'd be listening in and you know someone who could benefit from hearing more real speak. I mean, this brother is is dope. Follow him. Oh, drop your socials, and it's gonna be in the show notes. Too many more people than you.
Speaker 1:Where? Yeah. So so my personal page and it's public. So if you kinda want to understand what my brand is as an individual, adventures smiles and style. Right. That's he underscores smiles.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:He underscores smiles. And then my work in terms of, you know, really, really, really where I'm honing my work in my practice, I just created so it's new. It's a new platform.
Speaker 2:I saw it go uh-huh.
Speaker 1:On Instagram, black, weird, healing space. Bladderqueer, healing, and space. Please go there, follow. We are I'm actually doing some great things and some collaborations in May. During pride, we concur in the interview. So I'm excited about that. So you'll see that platform grow. But that whole, you know, the whole mission in the event is to provide a portal for people to access different modalities and healing. Right? It's not just therapy, but I also want to really and start to highlight other ways at which, and again, in that unique perspective of black and queer, that intersection is where we're gonna live there. So want you to go ahead and follow black queer healing space.
Speaker 2:Man, Monroe. This has been dope man. I appreciate you. We're gonna definitely have to do it again.
Speaker 1:Likewise, brother. Likewise. Let me tell the beach is this so your listeners can hear this man. This man right here is tried and true through and through genuine and authentic. And I'm telling you every single encounter and every single interaction with you is uplifting, it is replenishing, I watch you, I celebrate you, brother. I am inspired by you. There are many things that I see, brother, that you are really just setting the tone and you are setting the blueprint out there, man. I love you brothers, so
Speaker 2:love you.
Speaker 1:Thank you.
Speaker 2:Appreciate
Speaker 1:it. For for really just being a part of my life, Right? Both professionally and personally, man. So I just I needed to say that. I needed to
Speaker 2:I appreciate that. Man, love you, bro. This is good. Y'all. We gotta classic piece. And if you enjoyed this episode, make sure you tap in with myself and Dr. RJ Because this Tuesday, May thirtieth at eight PM eastern, we're gonna be talking about how professional burnout is ruining your relationship. Yes. And we're gonna talk about what to do about it. So that's May thirtieth eight PM eastern. We're gonna be streaming live on Facebook, YouTube, and LinkedIn. Alright. Can't wait to see you out there. Thank you all for listening to another episode of The Peace and Prosperity podcast. Again, if you are feeling like, hey, I'm experiencing high functioning anxiety, don't beat yourself up about it. It is okay. We all experience anxiety from time to time. And I gave you a couple of things that you can do on your own, but don't hesitate to reach out to a professional to better manage what you're going through. Okay. And lastly, make sure if you have not liked share, subscribe to the podcast and send this out to a friend. And if you wanna hear certain episodes or have certain conversations, let me you can shoot me a DM or just leave a review and I will definitely follow-up. Alright y'all. Be blessed. Peace.