The Ultimate Dish
The Ultimate Dish
Charlie Trotter’s Legacy Lives On: A Son’s Journey of Innovation and Tribute
In today’s episode, we chat with Dylan Trotter, a 33-year-old Chicago native and the son of famed chef Charlie Trotter.
Dylan reflects on growing up in his father’s iconic Lincoln Park restaurant, where he first discovered the magic of crafting unforgettable dining experiences. From interning at world-renowned kitchens like El Bulli to restoring his father’s former restaurant space, Dylan is dedicated to keeping his father’s legacy alive. He’s not just preserving his father’s memory; he’s revitalizing it by digitizing his father’s work and organizing pop-up dinners with other culinary legends.
Join us as we explore family dynamics, advice for today’s culinarians, and the lasting impact of Charlie Trotter on the culinary world.
TRANSCRIPT
Kirk Bachmann: Hi everyone, my name is Kirk Bachmann, and welcome back to The Ultimate Dish. Today, we are honored to welcome a truly special guest: Dylan Trotter, a 33-year-old Chicago native and son of the legendary chef, restaurateur, and visionary, Charlie Trotter.
As a dedicated culinary enthusiast, Dylan has been on a mission to preserve and advance his father’s groundbreaking legacy.
Growing up at Charlie Trotter’s iconic restaurant in Lincoln Park, Dylan’s culinary journey began early, immersed in a world of flavors, entrepreneurial spirit, and fascinating people.
Dylan’s path has taken him through numerous kitchens, including working for his father and interning at the famed El Bulli with Ferran Adrià.
After the heartbreaking loss of his father when he was just 22, Dylan found his footing with the support of Trotter alumni like Giuseppe Tentori and Mathias Merges, later gaining experience in a bustling steakhouse in West Hollywood, Los Angeles.
For the past four years, Dylan has dedicated himself to restoring and revitalizing the historic spaces at 816 and 814 West Armitage, where Charlie Trotter’s restaurant once stood.
Personally financing the renovations, he’s curating a remarkable series of pop-up dinners in collaboration with many of his father’s close friends and colleagues.
In addition, Dylan is digitizing his father’s cooking shows and cookbooks, ensuring Charlie’s work connects with modern audiences and continues to inspire generations to come.
And in January 2025, he’s launching his own podcast, exploring themes and philosophies that defined Charlie Trotter’s career.
So get ready—this conversation promises an inspiring look into the life of a legacy-keeper and the son of a true culinary icon.
And there he is! Good morning, Dylan. How are you?
Dylan Trotter: I’m great. How are you, Kirk?
Reminiscing
Kirk Bachmann: I’m really good. I’m really, really, really good. I’m so thankful and grateful and excited about our chat. For our audience, you and I met for the first time just a few months ago at the Roots Conference in Ohio with Farmer Lee.
Dylan Trotter: You did a fantastic job as the emcee.
Kirk Bachmann: You’re kind. You’re kind. I was so moved by your poise, some of the questions you posed in our forums, which really drove some great dialogue among some really, really fascinating people, like the Roots Conference has every single year. I met you and your girlfriend. I immediately, at that time – and I’ll get to that in a minute – shared a little bit of a story. We talked earlier before we got started, for our audience.
This is so exciting for me. I’ve been in the restaurant industry for a long time. I’m three times your age. I sort of grew up with Charlie being just this force. To be able to talk to you – and I’d love to make this so much about Dylan Trotter, but also understand your vision, and I want to be so respectful of your respect for what your father accomplished. I just want to put that forth that I’m beyond tickled.
If you don’t mind, can you set the stage a little bit? I think that office looks a little familiar to me.
Dylan Trotter: Yeah. This is the office at 814 West Armitage in Chicago. It’s the former office of my dad’s restaurant. It’s still got some of his old cookbooks up on the shelves. I’m sitting at his old desk. It’s really special to just be here. You can almost feel the energy. Truth be told, the old office, you might see this as an office, but stage right over here is where I live. You’ve got to be on-site every day. But the whole entire restaurant building has this energy to it. I’d love for more people to come and enjoy that. We can get to that.
Kirk Bachmann: We definitely will. As you were speaking, I almost forgot: when you talk about energy. I staged one day years ago at the restaurant. Giuseppe was still there. It was fascinating to me because I got to work there all day long, from nine o’clock in the morning just working like everyone else. It was such a good vibe. I’ll never forget; there was a period mid-day, long before service started, that folks came in and said, “Hey, Charlie wants to talk about something.”
The energy! They cleaned the entire kitchen as if it was the end of the day. Everything. It was like 11 a.m. or something. We went to close to where you are right there, where the studio was, and Charlie wanted to talk about what was then a really new concept. That was the TurboChef oven, this speed-combi oven. The energy was incredible. Then we turned around and just went right back into the kitchen and started to prepare for service.
I don’t know if you can see this Dylan. Behind me is a pretty big frame. There are three menus there that have meant a lot to me over the years. The one on the left was George Mahaffey, one of the original chefs at the Little Nell in Aspen. Wolfgang Puck from Spago is in the middle. I was too young; my parents brought me that one. Over there on the right from 1994 is a menu from Charlie Trotter. I had a restaurant in the mountains of Colorado at the time. There was no internet, so I called the restaurant and said, “Hey, I have a small restaurant in Colorado and I like to put menus on the wall of restaurants that I’ve been to or that my family has been to.” The gal hung up, and two weeks later I received a manila envelope that had two menus. It had that menu right there, and then it had something I had never seen before. That was a 100-percent complete vegetable menu. I held onto that for many, many years until I presented it to Farmer Lee at commencement a couple of years ago. It landed in the right place. But he wrote at the top, Dylan, “Keep on cooking. Charlie Trotter.” I just absolutely love it.
But let’s get to you. There will be more emotion from me anyway. I don’t know if our listeners – and I don’t even know if I know the whole story of who you’re named after.
Dylan Trotter: That’s up for debate who I’m named after. If you ask my dad – if you would have asked him – it’s one story. If you would have asked my mom, it’s another. Though I was born on Bob Dylan’s fiftieth birthday.
Kirk Bachmann: Isn’t that something?
Dylan Trotter: Let’s rewind a little. My dad was named after Charlie Parker because my grandfather was a jazz musician. Part of the Bob Trotter sextet. He was into jazz. He named my dad for Charlie Parker. My dad claims that I was named after Bob Dylan. [I was] born on his birthday. My dad would say, “Do you know how hard it was to time that? For you to be born on Bob Dylan’s fiftieth birthday?”
But my mom doesn’t like Bob Dylan’s voice so much though. My middle name is Thomas. She’s under the impression that I’m named after Dylan Thomas, the Welsh poet.
A Chef Dad’s Picky Eater
Kirk Bachmann: Two great stories, right, depending on the audience. I absolutely love it. I love it.
Let’s talk a little bit about the bond between you and your father and how that developed as a child. If you could include – the story is fascinating for me because I grew up over on Irving and Austin, the son of a fourth-generation baker. We had a bakery over there called Ackermann’s in the 70s. My dad’s still baking away – long retired in his eighties. I just remember a lot of growing up. We’ll get into a lot of the interesting lunches you may have had at school like I had when I went to school.
If you could just talk a little bit about that bond that developed. Your father was iconic, in every magazine, and then the books came out. I would just love to hear your story. I feel blessed that we have this chance to hear from you.
Dylan Trotter: Well, I think this goes for anybody. Whatever your parents do, if they’re masters of a certain craft, you don’t even realize when you’re in it that your life is maybe a little different. You kind of just feel like another normal kid. Looking back, I think, “Hey, I was a normal kid. He was a normal dad.” Loving, caring father, but it’s pretty clear that he was extraordinary.
I think a lot of my early experiences with him were more of the fatherly side of things and not so much to do with cooking or the restaurants. It was more just spending time with me, showing that he loved me, playing baseball. We’d go to the empty church parking lot on the weekend, and he’d pitch. We had a couple of buckets of baseballs, wiffle balls, softballs. He’d pitch balls to me until the whole parking lot was filled up with hundreds of balls. Or we’d tandem bike ride down to the planetarium out on the lakefront.
As I got a little older, I could play basketball. He would cut out of a pre-shift meeting at the restaurant and grab me. “Let’s go to [the] park and go play basketball.” And [he’d] be doing lay-ups in his suit and tie. Always making a lot of time for me.
When I was young, as a toddler, feeding me little bits of truffle and caviar and these luxury ingredients. Pretty quickly, though, I think he was a little shocked or maybe not so happy that I was a picky eater as a kid. I wanted Kraft mac and cheese. I wanted plain turkey sandwiches with the crust cut off.
Kirk Bachmann: Of course you did! Of course you did.
Dylan Trotter: That’s what my lunchbox looked like at school. It was very basic.
When I was about thirteen, he was like, “Enough of this.” He took me on a trip. It was our first trip, just him and I, leaving the country. We went to New Zealand and Australia. He said, “You’re going to eat everything on this trip. No exceptions.”
We had langoustines that were so fresh that when they poured salt on it, the nerves were just wriggling around. The abalone for the first time. We ate at Tetsuya Wakuda’s restaurant in Sydney. They were serving geoduck and all these things. Tetsuya was actually sitting at the table dining with us, at his own restaurant, sitting right next to me.
My dad was like, “Chef is sitting next to you. You must finish everything.” Tetsuya could see I was struggling a little with some of the exotic items.
Tetsuya leaned over and said, “Don’t worry about [it]. You don’t have to eat everything. What’s important is the people that we’re with.”
Kirk Bachmann: Brilliant.
Dylan Trotter: The two of them were like brothers from across the globe that were born the same year in 1959 and had a gentle admiration for each other.
Making People Think
Kirk Bachmann: That’s wonderful. I love the lunchbox story. It’s similar to a story I’ve told. I would come down from the top flat into the bakery before school. Usually I got a Black Forest torte or a Dobo’s torte or an eclair or Bismarck or something in my lunch that was so different from what everyone else had. Freshly baked bread with some sort of forcemeat smeared over it, sitting in my locker. Whereas the kids around me – again, I’m older than you – but Wonder Bread was really popular back then and bologna sandwiches, and Hunt’s Snack Pack puddings and all of that stuff. But you said it beautifully, though. I don’t know that I appreciated it or even thought about it back then. It was just normal. That’s just how we grew up. It’s later in life when you appreciate those subtle experiences that you have with your parents. I love that.
As you maybe aged – you were a restaurant kid. You’re still a restaurant kid. I wonder: did you observe certain behaviors or approaches that influence you today of how your father ran the business on a day-to-day basis?
Dylan Trotter: Yeah. He wouldn’t be sure if he was a first-class cook or a first-class chef. Maybe he is or maybe he’s not. One thing he would say is that he was a first-class observer and that he always had attention to detail. That was at home, at the restaurant, just being aware of everything, from the way things looked to the way things smelled to the way the sounds and every little detail when it came to the food, or when it came to managing people.
Being a kid coming over to the restaurant, it was almost like I had seventy-five brothers and sisters and uncles. He was almost like a father figure to a lot of people because he was just a natural leader in that way. He had a vision. He was so passionate. You could hear [it]. I’m so lucky to have these old speeches. I’ll be sure to put them out soon enough for everyone to enjoy. He was so passionate about what he did and what he believed in. People could sense that immediately. They just wanted to understand and learn from him.
He would try to make people think. It wasn’t just, “Come over here and cut up this food.” It was more about – he would put people on the spot a lot of the time. After you worked at Trotter’s in the kitchen for a year, you would then spend one week working in the dining room, so you could see what the front of the house has to deal with.
He would say [about] when he was a young busboy, when he was a teenager, he would see waiters come to the back of the kitchen stammering, scared to talk to the sous chef. “Excuse me. This…the woman…she says that the fish might be a little under-cooked.” And then the sous chef would be, “She doesn’t know what she’s talking about! She’s an idiot.” That angry chef cliché. My dad would try to convey to the cooks [that] you’ve got to give some respect to the front of the house because they’re dealing with the customer. You wouldn’t say customer; it was the guest or the client. You’re dealing with them. The front of the house is face-to-face. The guest is staring them down, and they have to deal with them on that personal basis. Trying to get them to understand.
On top of that, the cooks would come out to the dining room, maybe present a dish. Of course, they know what’s in the dish, and they can describe it. As they turned away to leave the table, my dad would stop them and say, “Wait, before you leave, why don’t you tell these folks a few things that you do to pursue excellence on a daily basis.” It’s a big question for anybody, front of the house, back of the house, any age. The first couple of times someone had to address a table and come up with, “What do I do to pursue excellence on a daily basis? Uh. I do my best to cut the food.” People would be nervous and stammering through their speech, but after they’d been working there for three or five months and they were on their third rendition of what they did to pursue excellence, now they are an old hand at it. They’ve got their spiel down, and they know exactly how to convey what they do to be a better person, to be passionate. He was really helping a lot of folks develop skills that they normally wouldn’t think of working in a kitchen.
Kirk Bachmann: I love the idea of making people think. It can be intimidating, but it’s also very satisfying. Like you say, Dylan, three months later, you’ve got your narrative down. You know exactly what you do to achieve excellence every single day.
I remember when I was there for that stage, and Charlie wanted to talk about the TurboChef. Everyone piled into the room. There were two tables, or two sides to a large table, I should say. Everyone, for whatever reason, kind of trended to one side. Before they got started, and Giuseppe was going to come up and help Charlie talk about it, Charlie made everyone pause and sort of re-balance themselves on the table. He said something to the effect that if you were a boat or a ship, you would sink, “because you’re all over on the starboard side.” He made people think. He wanted people to be comfortable. Maybe it had something to do with balance, like balance on the plate. I’ll never forget that, and when you said that, it reminded me of that experience. I probably wrote it down and used it over the years, too. Make people think. Be here. Be here listening. It’s just a TurboChef conversation, but it translates into a better guest or client experience. We can cook things more efficiently and faster. This was years ago. TurboChef was completely new.
Did your father ever encourage you or talk about you entering the industry? Was that something he wanted you to do, or was that your own decision?
The Lure of the Industry
Dylan Trotter: To be honest, all he ever wanted for me was for me to find something that made me happy and just do that, whatever it might be. Anything in the world. Of course, he did want me to work. My first job was working at his take out store, Trotter’s To-Go. I was about fourteen years old. Just to get a work ethic developed, not to become a cook necessarily, but start in the dish pit washing the pots and pans, move to preparing some food. Maybe today you’re going to clean out all the spice jars. I dropped habanero powder. I dropped it on the ground and the powder shot up. The kitchen had to leave for like thirty minutes, but these are things you learn not to do.
Kirk Bachmann: Lots of Visine needed.
Dylan Trotter: I think it was more just starting to do something to develop a work ethic, but go and do whatever it is you want to do. But that was hard for me. He was fortunate in the way that he found his calling when he was in college. He went to the University of Madison Wisconsin, majored in political science. But along the way, he started cooking with his roommates and doing these cooking competitions. He found a passion for cooking at the age of twenty or twenty-one. He found his calling.
For me, not quite as straightforward. My life has been crazy: ups and downs like a roller coaster, like anybody. I’ve come around to loving the culinary profession, hospitality in general because anybody who is working in a restaurant, they are more than likely a good person because they are trying to give something back to someone: an experience, something that tastes good. Or just go out for the evening and enjoy something special with their significant other or their family. That’s what’s appealing to me about the whole scene. I’ve had so many lovely experiences [I want] just to try to give that back to people.
Not Going to Let Dad Down
Kirk Bachmann: Such a beautiful statement. We’re totally going to steal that, put quotes around it. The idea that people working the industry are good people, probably good people. You’re right. They’re giving of themselves on a daily basis. That’s why we’re in this industry – because we want to make people happy and smile.
When I hear you talk about how the industry appealed to you even as time went on, I think about even my own experience. I have to be honest with you, Dylan. One, I thought I was going to play center field for the Chicago Cubs, I probably did everything I could to not do this. I went to the University of Oregon. I studied political science. I studied international business. But I felt drawn, so when I was done with college and went back to work for the family business, slowly but surely it all sort of made sense to me as well. It’s probably in the DNA for both of us that we’re attracted to this business. Whether that was gradual or over time or right away, I think we were both going to end up here. How serendipitous is it that we’re chatting with each other?
If we could, I’d love to talk about this idea of embracing your father’s legacy. If you’re comfortable, talking about the years after we lost Charlie, your personal process, and how you started to come to think about his legacy in a different way that informs the work that you’re doing today. Tough question, but I think [it is] so important for our guests to understand what your vision is.
Dylan Trotter: My dad passed away in 2013. I was 22 years old. He was 54. That will be the defining day of my life. It changed everything. I think I took a lot for granted that he would be around forever. It was just not easy, not easy at all.
And I had my own issues as a teenager and into my early twenties. Some kids and parents get along all the time. Him and I, when I was older, would bump heads a little bit. I know today he’d be proud of me, but back then there’s so many things you wish you could have said. You wish you could say, “I love you, Dad. I miss you, and I learned so much from you. You were the most important person to me in my life.”
Well, equal to my mom. Let’s not forget about her, my mom, Lynn. She is still a great mother to this day, and she knew my dad very, very well, and still misses him dearly.
When he first passed, I was beside myself, was just not dealing with my emotions. I was having a cocktail at the bar at GT Fish & Oyster. I was just down and whatever and moping. This is months after my dad passed. Giuseppe was there. He came over.
He was like, “Dylan, what are you doing?”
I’m like, “I don’t know.”
He’s like, “Come work for me in the kitchen tomorrow.”
I’m like, “Okay.” But that was one of the best things that ever happened to me. I thank Giuseppe for pulling me out of that rut. Throwing myself into something to occupy my mind and my time.
But then that wasn’t good enough because I was just going through the motions. I wasn’t executing, so after a few months, it was like, “Alright. Let’s step it up a little bit.” I wouldn’t have my station fully set up, or I’d only prep enough and then we’d get twenty-five orders of something, and I only made enough for twenty-four. The sous chefs would be like, “What are you doing?!” I got a real reaming out in the walk-in one day.
I burst out of that walk-in in tears. “I’m not going to let my dad down. I’m going to make it happen.” From that day forward, I was moving with precision and speed and really learned to love the adrenaline when you’re on the line. You’ve got to produce and get it out there, but it’s got to be right. It’s got to taste right. It’s got to look right.
I had a great time working for Giuseppe at GT Fish & Oyster. Worked for Mathias Merges, too, who was the head chef at Trotter’s for fourteen years, another great alumna at Trotter’s.
I moved to Los Angeles for a year to see how life was out on the West Coast. I got an opportunity to live with someone in their back house. It was like their niece and nephew’s playroom with no running water.
Kirk Bachmann: You’re young. You could survive that.
Dylan Trotter: Exactly. To just have a new experience, live in a new city. It’s worth it.
That was a different experience, working at a huge 350-seat steakhouse in West Hollywood, BOA Steakhouse. I was used to the delicate preparations and tableside explanations. This was like, “Hey, you’ve got to get your arms full of as many steaks as you can and all the sides and run it out there.” It was like, “We’ve got to go.” That really was a lot of fun, just doing a high-volume thing.
I learned. I was cooking with Giuseppe, but I moved to the front of the house, running food, busing tables, and I learned that I liked interacting with the guests. I think I was more naturally suited to that side of things.
I will always love cooking, but you’ve got to go where your heart is.
Restoring a Restaurant and a Legacy
Kirk Bachmann: A hundred percent. Thank you so much, too, for sharing your story and when you were talking about being at Giuseppe’s place, which was a really unique restaurant. You felt comfortable when you walked in. The bar kind of wrapped around, and everything sort of happened there. I can almost see you there. I could see him walking up and helping you take the next step.
I was going to ask if there was something that inspired you to embark on the restoration and the celebration of your father’s legacy. I’m wondering, was it a combination of Giuseppe and the shakedown in the cooler? Only having twenty-four of your mise en place versus twenty-five, or were there some other things that really motivated you? Was there that defining day or moment where [you thought] “This is what I need to do? This is my purpose.”
Dylan Trotter: I don’t know if it was a single day or one special event. It was more of a gradual shift over time. I really missed the community, being able to walk into Trotter’s back then and having all those people around. Gosh, if I had the headspace I have today back then, I’d be asking a lot more questions and mixing it up with everybody and not wasting any time. You never know how long you’re going to have someone special nearby, or opportunities. You’ve got to seize the opportunities, and that is something else my dad always tried to convey to me. You have to take advantage of your opportunities in life. Don’t be afraid to try to get in touch with someone. If you know someone who knows someone that is inspirational to you, or that you’ve been dying to meet, go and pursue it. It doesn’t hurt to ask. It doesn’t hurt to put yourself out there.
I’ve been timid and apprehensive before. “Nobu is in the room. I’m scared to go talk to him.” I would call my dad. I was eating at Nobu’s restaurant, and he actually came in. I was like, “Oh my gosh!” I was twenty-one. This was in Hawaii because my mom lived in Hawaii for seventeen years, actually. That’s its own story. But I called my dad.
“Dad, I think Nobu’s in the room.”
He’s like, “You better get up and go say hi to him.”
I’m like, “I don’t know if I can.”
He was like, “Go say hi!”
I’m like, “Okay.”
As I approached the table, somehow, Nobu recognized me before I even said anything. He goes, “Oh. Little Charlie!”
I said, “Oh, my God!”
Kirk Bachmann: Isn’t that great, though? What a community of chefs, of cooks, of restaurateurs that there is out there. You’re in that community. You’re in that family. You’re Charlie Trotter’s son. You’re Dylan. I just love that story.
You’re planning on doing some pop-ups with others who were close to your father. I’m curious if you’ve thought through already how you’re going to involve the greater Chicago community which embraced Charlie Trotter’s for so many years.
Dylan Trotter: The last couple of years I’ve just been fixing up these buildings here. They were built in 1881. They’re quite old, and they needed a lot of love and new roofing and tuckpointing on the masonry, on the bricks on the exterior. Really learned a lot about how trowels and mortar and new siding and painting the exterior, the interior. Then just recently in the last few months, restoring the old kitchen, and getting the 1996 Bonnet ranges operational again. A couple spare parts. Able to just get it. When I saw the blue flame shoot up again on the French top, I was like, “Thank you, Dad!” It was just amazing.
We’re still renovating the dining room and getting the permits and licensing. It’s a whole lot, but I know that this place…anybody I bring through here, just giving them a tour, if they’ve eaten here before, if they used to work here, or even if they’ve never set foot in the building, it’s a lot of, “Wow! You can really feel the energy in this place.” I think it inspires a lot of people just to be in the old space. I know that I’m so lucky to have the community nearby. Chefs like Giuseppe or Mathias are willing to come and do a dinner here. I think these are special pop-ups that we can start to do when the space is ready. Hopefully, in the next six weeks or so, we’ll be ready to go.
Also, super honored that Chef Grant Achatz has been doing a Trotter Tribute menu at his next restaurant. I’ve been working a lot with him to do that. Great guy. Would love to see if maybe we can do that menu here potentially.
Yeah. Again, his cookbooks and the TV show that he had on PBS for three years. Unless you’re a certain age, no one’s really seen it. The cookbooks are not in print anymore. The TV show, maybe if you’ve a VHS player and you bought the VHS tapes in 2001. Otherwise, working on trying to get that out there so you and I can watch it and read it again. Also younger kids, older people who ate here, people who have never heard of him.
Because he was a trailblazer. I think it’s easy to see what there is today and, “Oh. Yeah. We have this thing that we’ve always done.” But who’s questioning? Where did this come from? Where did this originate? What was the special sauce, the energy, that was used to get to that point of innovation? What were the ingredients of people and mentalities that got to the point where innovation was happening? How can we recreate that today?
The Little Things
Kirk Bachmann: It’s such important work. It’s absolutely amazing. You mentioned the books, of which I have all. When I think about those books, they were so different. They were like this crazy combination of a coffee table book with recipes that worked. It was crazy. I show those books to my students, particularly the first one. I don’t remember the year that it came out, but it led the way for so many other chefs to be able to tell their stories through photos, through great photos.
It reminded me as you were talking, Dylan, of another story. Talk about innovation and being way ahead of the game. I had the great pleasure of eating at Trotter’s several times. One time I was there with a visiting chef from Paris when we were doing the Le Cordon Bleu thing in Chicago. We were just at a two-top, and I just noticed something on the carpet. I don’t know if it was a fuzz or a crumb. I looked over, and then a server walked by, and then that crumb was gone. I was like, “What’s happening here?”
We had a great time with this particular server who was really personable. At one point towards the end, he lifted up his shoe. He showed the double-sided tape on the bottom of his shoe. This was something. Not everyone did it, but many did. It’s the little extra things. You noticed. He was really impressed that we noticed that that crumb was there, he walked by, and the crumb was gone. I did not see a broom. I did not see a vacuum, and there it was on the bottom of his shoe.
I tell students those stories, not because they need to go buy double-sided tape, but it’s this idea of unreasonable hospitality. It’s just going way above and beyond, and not looking for accolades for it. Had I not mentioned it, he never would have said a word about it. That’s just the way things were done.
Fabulous memories. Again, I can’t get over how excited I am to go down memory lane with you.
Dylan Trotter: In the vein of what you were just talking about, my dad was an enthusiastic diner when he would go out. He loved great food, great wine, great service. He knew how to convey that at his own restaurant because he knew what he liked. The experience that he would give someone else. “Okay, maybe out of the one hundred guests tonight, only one of them is going to notice this little thing, but I would be the guy to notice that.” And so even if it’s just for that one person.
Before the podcast, you said, “Maybe 7000 people listen to this. My family listens, but I don’t know how wide the net is.” But to me, it’s like even if one person hears this and it inspires them in some kind of way or makes them think about something new, then I would be so satisfied. To just even affect one person is what it’s all about.
Kirk Bachmann: The humility is amazing. Really, really well said. I’m going to have to ask Noelle for another hour because I just want to keep talking!
Farmer Lee told me a story. He had a special relationship with your dad. He told me about this one time when a bunch of people from the farm came up. They pulled up on West Armitage in this big bus. Charlie had the entire brigade outside, all in their whites, and the servers in their uniforms and such, welcoming this group of people coming from a little farm in Ohio. They had a beautiful time.
Later, they got back on and everybody got a gift and everything. They’re rolling down the road, and somebody noticed in the back that Charlie had put an entire case of champagne for the drive home with glasses and the whole bit. I mean, only he would think of that. Now you and I think about those things, too. Really beautiful stories.
Let’s talk about the podcast. We mentioned that at the beginning of the show. We’re on a podcast now. Four years ago, we started doing this. I think I just drew the shortest straw. “Hey, we’re going to do a podcast, and guest what, Kirk? You’re going to host it.” And it’s really all about the conversation and the guest and the client if you will, and just really sharing great stories. We’re not political. We’re not controversial in any way, shape, or form. I’m curious what inspired you to get into this podcast world. Are there some themes we’re going to look forward to?
Digitizing, from Podcasts to Cookbooks
Dylan Trotter: Again, just like having people to dine again in the old restaurant space, I think interviewing them or just having a discussion in the old space helps evoke some memories. I find walking people through [it], these lightning bolts go off in their heads. They walk past the garmo station and they’re going, “Oh my God! I remember. I was guest chef for a day here. Your dad came over and said this to me.” Or we go up into one of the dining rooms, and another memory is sparked. I find that’s the best place for these memorable discussions. There are so many people out there that have stories that I’d like to put out there and hear from them about what they might have learned, or a good experience, or maybe a bad experience. Hey, it’s the whole thing.
I think it’s just great to have these conversations. I know there are a lot of podcasts already. We’ll see if ours is any different. I think maybe Chicago history could be the theme. It’s good to look back at the past and try to understand it and where it all came from.
Kirk Bachmann: Well said. I wish you all the luck in the world. I think it will be fantastic. Half the battle is just the desire to do it, to talk to people, to share stories.
As you work on several projects, you’re also, you mentioned, digitizing some of that older content and such. I’m wondering, from your perspective, Dylan, what has that been like for you as you revisit some of these materials. You were very young when some of this stuff came out. I imagine you are finding some surprises. “Wow, I didn’t know that!” Has that been just absolutely exciting for you?
Dylan Trotter: I’m still learning. It’s amazing to have speeches or videos where my dad feels like he’s in the room with me still. I know a lot of folks, when they lose a parent or both of their parents, maybe all you have left is a couple of photographs. I’m so lucky to have the video, the audio, and experience him again.
Because when you lose somebody, you lose a lot of wisdom. Not just knowledge and wisdom and smarts and everything, but this love, this emanating. Someone can write a textbook, and you can learn all the information they knew through that, but you don’t get a sense of their personality and their warmth and their humor. But when you have the audio. When you have the video, you get a sense of it, a sense of their character and personality. That’s the special thing.
Then, of course, all the food and the recipes. They only made recipes for the cookbooks. Maybe we can get to this later at the end. Is the final question what’s the ultimate dish?
Kirk Bachmann: Yeah. We’ve been thinking about it. You’ve been thinking about it. I love it. That’s great.
I was going to ask as you were summarizing that. It’s beautiful what you’re attempting to achieve, to preserve your father’s legacy. In many ways, creating your own, Dylan. I don’t know if that’s just a byproduct of a beautiful process, of a fun process. Seeing how humble you are, I believe this didn’t start with your end goal. This is more about celebrating your father. Don’t underestimate how important this is for people to hear your story, from Dylan. Next time you walk in and Nobu sees you, he’ll say, “Hey, it’s Dylan Trotter.”
Dylan Trotter: That’s right. Not just Little Charlie.
Lessons from Charlie
Kirk Bachmann: I love that. I love that.
As a side bar, sort of related. If Charlie were with us – there are a lot of young people that will listen to this story and hopefully still read his books. What lessons do you believe he would want culinary students today, given what’s going on in the world today, what would he want them to grasp or absorb as they get educated?
Dylan Trotter: Okay, a couple of things on that. I’ll answer this about what he would probably want. I do hate always saying, “Oh, my dad would have wanted this. Or he would have wanted that.” I know there are other people who do that. I do that. It’s like you can never – as close as you are to someone – you can never really know, in they’re special unique way, how exactly they’d think about something. He surprised me constantly. All I can do is a rough attempt at what advice he might give to a young culinarian.
But I would say, Master your station, but look outside the box. Don’t wait for someone to tell you what to do for the next task. Show genuine enthusiasm and people will pick up on that. They’ll say, “Oh, he’s already coming over to this other station and trying to help. Maybe we should give him a shot. He’s ready to move on to the next station.” Think about what the waiter has to go through. Try to empathize with what the expo is dealing with, what the waiter is dealing with, what the busboys are dealing with. Think also internally. Think about what you love about [it], why you chose this. What pushes you to pursue this and to pursue it everyday? Try to get better every day.
It’s tough, getting better everyday. There are so many days where we feel like we backpedal a little bit, but it’s okay. Don’t give up because sometimes it’s late at night and I haven’t had dinner, and the only thing open is McDonald’s. Okay. I go and get a Big Mac. Hey, I know. “You’re Charlie Trotter’s son. How could you eat a Big Mac.”
I’m like, “Oh, I wish I’d stuck to that workout routine or that diet.” It’s okay to mess up. You are moving forward even if sometimes it doesn’t feel like it.
So what else would he say about young culinarians? Well, here’s a great one.
Again, just don’t try to please other people; try to please yourself. If you’re going to make a grocery store product, for instance, or open some kind of a catering business or whatever it is, don’t try to do what you think other people want. Do what you like and what you know is good. It will shine through. People will pick up on that. But if you’re always trying to [do], “Here is what the market analysis says about protein bars.” Make a protein bar that you think is delicious, that you know is nutritious, or whatever product it might be or whatever restaurant it might be. Believe in yourself.
Kirk Bachmann: That’s great advice for in or out of the kitchen. What I wrote down again, per your initial comments – it was probably not even intentional – but you said earlier that your dad liked to make people think. That’s basically the theme: make people think. Master your station, and don’t wait to be told what’s next. Demonstrate enthusiasm. Don’t just live to please others. Make people think. I love it. I absolutely love it. Really, really, really great advice.
A Special Announcement
Dylan Trotter: Just quickly to circle back to when you were saying, “Who is Dylan?” Let’s hear a little bit about me personally and what I’m trying to do. This is not in the news or anything yet – no official announcement, but not only are we going to be doing pop-ups with the old restaurant space, but I’m going to re-open the restaurant as a full-fledged restaurant again.
Kirk Bachmann: Amazing.
Dylan Trotter: If anybody’s listening to this, it’s the first time people are hearing it.
Kirk Bachmann: This is unbelievable! Wow! Congratulations, Dylan. Oh my gosh.
Dylan Trotter: We will start with these pop-up things January, February, March, April, just to get the grease back in the engine of the kitchen and to see what works in the kitchen, what’s not working; what works in the dining room, what’s not working. And as we go through it, I can start to narrow in on the concept a little bit and start staffing the place. But the idea is that it can never be Charlie Trotter’s again without Charlie Trotter, but we’d call it Dylan Trotter’s because it’s my place now.
We would do dishes out of his cookbooks that one might enjoy the cuisine of the past, but do riffs on it. The menu that my dad would do would change every single night. Let’s tie that into the final question, right, which is the ultimate dish.
Dylan Trotter’s Ultimate Dish
So what would the ultimate dish be? I would not say it’s any one particular dish because it’s whatever Farmer Lee Jones is sending you that day. Whatever the fisherman is sending you that day. You’d almost work backwards from there.
You call Farmer Lee. You say, “Hey, it’s not that I want this or that. You tell me what’s the best right now. I’ll take it. Anything.” Then you play with that, and you get creative. You force yourself to learn. That’s how so many chefs who worked at Trotter’s learned so much and went on to open their own places and be creative forces unto their own. [It] was because they were forced to innovate daily.
I think the ultimate dish is whatever the farmer or the fisherman or the cattle herder sends you that day, and whatever you come up with. That’s the ultimate dish.
Kirk Bachmann: And that’s Dylan Trotter’s ultimate dish. I absolutely love it. What a great response! So thoughtful. I’m going to call Farmer right after this, by the way. He always says his favorite question from chefs and restaurateurs is, “Farmer, what should I put on the menu?” He always responds with, “Whatever’s in season.” Whatever’s in season. Oh my.
Dylan Trotter: We will do dishes out of my dad’s cookbooks, but we’re going to riff on it like improv jazz. Tweak this, tweak that. I’d love to one day do every dish – and he has twelve cookbooks. Every dish from every cookbook. And then what’s next? Who knows? The sky’s the limit.
Kirk Bachmann: I love it. I can hear the enthusiasm in your voice. So, so excited. We have a location, kind of a corporate headquarters, just outside of Chicago. I can’t wait to make reservations at Dylan Trotter’s.
Thank you for sharing that with us. It’s so, so exciting. And thanks for being on the show, Dylan. So professional. So poised. Really appreciate you. Wish you all the luck in the world. Thanks for going down memory lane with me. Really appreciate it.
Dylan Trotter: Of course. Thank you, Kirk. It’s a pleasure talking with you. Please, come on by any time you’re in Chicago before we’re open, after we’re open. Anytime.
Kirk Bachmann: You know I will. You know I will. Thanks again, Dylan. Appreciate it.
And thank you for listening to the Ultimate Dish podcast, brought to you by Auguste Escoffier School of Culinary Arts. Visit escoffier.edu/podcast, where you’ll find any materials mentioned during the podcast, including notes, links and other resources. And if you can, please leave us a rating on Apple or Spotify, and subscribe to support our show. This helps us to reach more aspiring individuals ready to take the next step toward their dream careers. Thanks for listening.