A Journey Through Scottish Witchcraft and Personal Empowerment With Kalem Turner

Have you ever felt the pull of your ancestors' beliefs intertwining with your own spiritual path? Our guest, Kalem Turner, a seasoned palm reader and divination educator from Edinburgh, joins us to unravel the threads of Scottish witchcraft and divination that have woven through his life. Explore the solitary craft with Kalem as we discuss the impact of family heritage on spiritual practices and the joy of discovering one's innate talents. His narrative delves into the power of individuality in the mystical arts and the poignant legacy of fortune-telling cards passed down with a bittersweet family history.

Awaken to the transformative journey of embracing witchcraft as an empowering form of self-expression with our conversation about the evolution of this ancient practice. From the magical slumps that teach us the value of stepping back for rejuvenation, to the personal resonance found in tarot and celestial influences, we traverse the realms of self-care and the integration of ancestral beliefs.

Concluding this enchanting episode, we extend an open invitation to continue the conversation within our vibrant community. Whether you're a solitary practitioner finding strength in your craft or a newcomer eager to carve your own path in the world of witchcraft, there's a place for you in our digital crossroads. Connect with us on Instagram, join our Facebook group, or visit our official website for a dive into all things witchy. And remember, join us next Tuesday for another magical gathering right here on Your Average Witch.

Visit Kalem's site and sign up for divination classes here!
divinationeducation.com

Transcript

Kim: 0:04

Welcome back to your Average Witch, where every Tuesday we talk about witch life, witch stories and sometimes a little witchcraft. Your Average Witch is brought to you by Crepuscular Conjuration. This week I'm talking to Kalem Turner, a palm reader and divination educator in Scotland. We talked about how there are probably more palm readers now than ever, how palmistry is like astrology and what it's like to find your gift. Now let's get to the stories. Kalem, welcome to the show.

Kalem: 0:35

Thanks for having me.

Kim: 0:38

Can you please thank you for being here. Can you please introduce yourself and let everybody know who you are and what you do and where they can find you.

Kalem: 0:47

Sure, so my name is Kalem Turner. I am in Edinburgh in Scotland. I am a divination teacher and fortune teller. I've been reading fortunes for a long time, but I want to move my focus more to teaching divination. You can find me online just by searching my name, Kalem Turner. I'm on Instagram, I'm on Facebook, but the big focus is on my website. It's divinationeducationcom. If people want to learn divination, I will have courses there in the future, but I also have a free newsletter where I give out free divination lessons as well as things like astrology forecasts monthly and just different offers, different deals, different stories about my life experience and just musings from my mind. I'm putting a lot more energy into the website now.

Kim: 1:39

That good. I think I know someone who just got excited when they heard everything you just said. Can you tell me what it means to you when you call yourself a witch? If you do?

Kalem: 1:56

I think I, yeah, I do. I mean, I definitely do. I think I probably have been my whole life. But I also don't, um, I don't use the word a lot. You know it's kind of like going around and saying I'm a redhead. It just doesn't come up in conversation a lot. It's just kind of always been that way. Um, I know a lot of people kind of discover witchcraft at some point in their life and it it really resonates for them. But for me it's kind of just always been that way, like even as a child. So I don't use the word a whole lot.

Kalem: 2:30

I think it means different things to different people. You know it used to be an insult at best or at worst, you know, a horrible accusation. I think people have really sort of claimed back the the word. For me it's just always been, um, I guess finding power and what makes you different a little bit, but more from a, more from a spiritual perspective rather than a radicalist, uh perspective. Um, but I think you know being a witch is radical, even even today. Um, especially depending where you're living.

Kalem: 3:02

Um, in Scotland we've got a really rich history of witchcraft and I think people are more open-minded to it these days, but at the end of the day we're always going to be a little bit outsidered, I guess, or witchified. In that way it's not so much a sense of belonging to a community For me, it is more solitary and kind of finding power in the solitude. The things that make you darker although it doesn't have to be dark, but, you know, perceived by others as being darker or being other, can be a good thing for you as a person. It has been for me.

Kim: 3:42

That's interesting. That's a neat view. That's interesting. That's any of you. Do you have any family history with witchcraft, or what was your spiritual background growing up?

Kalem: 3:59

so it was. It was a bit of a a unique one, I guess. So my dad was a Freemason. He's been dead for a long time but I would say he was more agnostic in his beliefs. I remember he gave me his Masonic ring when I was a child. It was a little gold ring which I would never wear because I find gold to be really vulgar, but it had like seven rather esoteric Masonic symbols on it and he always used to say the eye is the most important. You know, knowledge and information is the best thing you can achieve with your life. So I think that probably influenced me in terms of you know, thinking, the third eye and perception and knowledge and all that kind of stuff.

Kalem: 4:39

My mum was very superstitious. She comes from a superstitious family. I guess she's very empathic. I think that's where I got a lot of sensitivity from. But I don't think anyone in my family has ever called themselves a witch. The closest would be.

Kalem: 4:54

I didn't really know much of my great auntie until I was a teenager. After her husband died she sort of moved closer to us, closer to her family, and I was in her lounge one day and she said you know, your mom told me you've been reading the tarot cards. I've got tarot cards as well. They were my grandmother's and I was like what, stop the phone? Like an old tarot deck. So I looked at them and they were more like fortune telling cards. They kind of have like playing cards with predictions printed on them and a sort of Egyptian back. But they were so old and beautiful and I ended up inheriting them. She's still around, but she passed them down to her son and he did a reading for himself one day and the cards can be quite brutal. With fortune telling cards it's not so much open to interpretation like tarot but they read as a, you know, a serious illness and an early death. And he died like a year later from motor neurons disease. So I think the cards were kind of tainted for her. It really broke her heart. I remember she gave me the cards I think a few days after his funeral and she was crying. She was giving me them. But it felt right at the same time because I was the only fortune teller really left in the family, felt right at the same time because I was the only fortune teller really left in the family.

Kalem: 6:09

She's in her late eighties, you know she's. She's not doing it. Um, she has some other cool stuff as well, like a crystal ball that was her grandmother. She likes to think that it gives her, um, spiritual dreams from her late husband and things like that. So it's nice that I can connect to her. On the the fortune telling side of things, she kind of has an omen for everything. You know, if you, if you drop a knife in the kitchen, a man's going to come into your life, or if you've got an itchy foot, it means you're going to walk on strange ground. She always has like a little superstition for everything. I need to start writing down what she says. But apart from that it's always very solitary for me.

Kalem: 6:41

I think I sort of came to it on my own and then as I got older I realized actually it is ingrained in the family culture. A little bit A few weeks ago there was like a sickle moon and I said to my auntie I was like, oh, look at the new moon, it's very beautiful. It was my mom's younger sister and she said, yeah, you need to bow your head three times and then turn the coins in your pocket. And I was like, how would you even know that? You're not even remotely interested in this stuff? And of course she learned it from my great auntie because they spend time together. So that was nice. I think the older I get, the more I'm realizing it is there, but nobody really remarks on it much I want people to tell me things like that so I can know it.

Kim: 7:37

Yeah, it's a shame as well.

Kalem: 7:38

Bits of things like that. Yeah, it kind of comes naturally in conversation. But if I was to say to her you know, can you list 10 of these superstitions? She'd probably be like, oh, it's hard to think of, it's hard to bring it to mind, but it's when it sort of happens in the moment. It sort of jogs her memory from childhood. You know of things that her mother and her grandmother would have told her.

Kim: 7:57

Yeah, I remember there was one thing that I can remember from being a kid, and I don't even know if it would be the same thing, but if the wind blows and flips the leaves upside down, it means rain's coming. That's one of the ones.

Kalem: 8:15

oh yeah, that's a little um weather witching, that's kind of more divination. I guess I don't know if that would work here, because in Scotland it is always raining. I mean, I'm looking at the window, right now it's raining, the sky, because in Scotland it is always raining. I mean, I'm looking at the window, right now it's raining, the sky is grey, it's just always raining. So I think the weather is a little bit precarious there. The wind wouldn't be as oministic, if that's the word.

Kim: 8:35

It doesn't work here either, because there are no leaves and it doesn't rain.

Kalem: 8:42

There's another one. I think it's maybe more people reading. But with cows you know if they lie down it's going to rain. I think that's something people say here.

Kim: 8:53

I have heard that one too. Yeah, can you introduce us to your practice? Do you have any regular rituals that you do In?

Kalem: 9:03

terms of rituals, I mean not a lot, because when it comes to divination is my big thing, because it's my job. If I'm not doing readings, I'm teaching it or I'm writing about it. So I feel like divination is just a part of my everyday life. It is more of a lifestyle, but when it comes to magic and ritual, I'm not very grandioso with it. I don't feel like you need a lot of stuff. It is more intuitive. I can do a lot with water. I can do a lot with water and sea salt. They're pretty much all I need.

Kalem: 9:37

There's not a whole lot of candle lighting or dressing for the occasion or anything like that, and I think probably most of what I do is low magic. I guess people would consider, you know, herbal remedies and making charms or even just sort of intention with manifestation. I don't think you need a lot of spell work to get things done. But divination is probably my main thing and I think some people would even say that's not really witchcraft, it's just something that witches do. But we've kind of always done it. You know, across every culture and religion there's always been a witch telling fortune somewhere.

Kalem: 10:20

Yeah, and when I do, when I am using I don't want to say spellcraft, because I tend not to think of it like that. I tend to think of it as just working with the elements. You know, I'll be in the woods, I'll be by a river, I'll be in the garden. It's not so much like an altar space or anything like that, although I'm looking at two of those right now, so that's a little contradictory, those right now, so that's a little contradictory. But again, it just feels like it's a sort of part of daily life that comes naturally um, it is more intuitive. It's not so much a a goal orientated thing, if that makes sense it does.

Kim: 11:03

How has witchcraft changed your life?

Kalem: 11:09

I think it took a while to to change my life. Um, I mean, as a child I was sort of like obsessed with the witch archetype. I even got like the witch's bible when I was like eight years old from a waterstones bookstore. But you know, I there was nothing much I could do with it because I was still developing as a person. As a teenager I was busy with other stuff as well. So I think when I got older it kind of gave me just a way of connecting to this reality or this world and other ones, just a way of feeling connected to what's around me and gaining a sense of I don't want to say control, but a sense of creativity or power over my own life that actually I am the biggest creator.

Kalem: 11:52

I've never really been an idea of been into the idea of deity as a creator and deity as something that you have to take power from.

Kalem: 12:01

I'm like actually most of it comes from me, if not all, as egotistical as that sounds.

Kalem: 12:08

You know, it's all come from me at the end of the day, and it's been me that's made the worst things in my life happen as well as the best things in my life, and witchcraft has been a sort of way to not contain that but express it in a way that empowers me and gets things to happen in my life, or even just as a sort of.

Kalem: 12:27

I think a lot of people find it as a coping mechanism or as a comfort, even in the same way that religion does. You might not believe a lot of superstitions, but doing them still feels comfortable in some way, and that might be a sort of ancestral thing that's passed down. You know, I don't think that if you spill the salt on the table and you don't throw it over your left shoulder, I don't think anything bad is going to happen to you. But I'm still going to do that because that's what my mum did and that's what her mum did, you know, and I'm not even sure that's super witchy, because I think that's more of like a Christian superstition. But the two bleed into each other so much in countries that are, you know, historically Christian for the last, however many centuries.

Kim: 13:12

I feel like you described OCD, because when you said you don't have to, I thought yes, you do, you do, you do, I have OCD, you do have to. You're still going to do it and when you said you feel uncomfortable if you don't do it. That's OCD. I'm not saying witchcraft is OCD, but it probably does help my own witchcraft that I have it. What is the biggest motivator in your practice and has it changed since you first started?

Kalem: 13:46

Oh my God. Yeah, it's changed a lot. I think in the beginning it was probably to figure out who I am and what I'm capable of, and then the sort of thirst for knowledge took over. Probably learning was the biggest motivation. You know, when there's space in your head, you really want to fill it too much too fast.

Kalem: 14:09

For me, because my profession is performing readings and doing divination, I think for a long time my motivation was seeing people's reactions. Again, there's some ego in that. There I would have masked that as saying it's helping people and guiding them towards their future, but actually I loved seeing their face when they're like how do you know that? You shouldn't know that? That's weird. Like that makes me uncomfortable. You know, it was fun.

Kalem: 14:33

For me these days the motivation really does come from from teaching, because I feel like I've acquired so much experience and I've learned so much. Um, you know, and I have kind of like a broad understanding of that particular subject. I want to give it to other people so I can talk to other people about it, Because it's more interesting. You can only. I've done thousands of readings for people, but you can only do that so many times and still have the same gratification from it.

Kalem: 15:02

I think there's a lot to be said about exploring the anatomy of divination and witchcraft, you know, in general, um, and having having the the, the opportunity to connect to other people with that as well. Um, that would probably be what motivates me just now, is what gets me up in the morning and what gets me interested, or excited is teaching, I guess, and passing it on to other people, because there's a lot that I wish I knew, that I just had to learn on my own that no one else was putting out there or no one put in a way, uh, finessed, in a way that resonated with me or made me understand um, so if I can help other people with that, then that's great.

Kim: 15:49

I'm going to nose around your website.

Kalem: 15:53

Because I don't do a lot of divination.

Kalem: 15:56

Yeah, I do a lot of divination. I used to be kind of stuck on tarot, as I think a lot of people were. I started that as a teenager. But when I was 22 I started exploring astrology and palmistry and I was like, oh, they're really connected and they're really connected to tarot and all these other forms of divination. Um, so it's like the older I get, the more, the more ways I can do it. It's, it's interesting and that it's a way of developing skills, but it's also it keeps it interesting to me going to different forms of divination and particularly ones that are not so well practiced. Um, tarot isn't even my favorite kind of card reading. I prefer, like lenormand, and a lot of people out there, especially card readers or tarot readers, I should say they don't even know what lenormand is, and I'm like, well, you should, because it fills in the gaps where tarot doesn't.

Kim: 16:51

That's one of the things I thought was really interesting, because I got a reading from you a few years ago and it was a palm reading. And you said that it all connects to tarot and astrology and I didn't know that and I don't know that many people know it because people don't really do palm reading anymore. But I thought it was really cool.

Kalem: 17:18

There is a bit of a growing trend in palm reading. I would say there's actually more of us than ever because it has reached sort of every corner of the globe. But it's definitely. You know, I think in the 1800s palmistry was probably the most popular form of divination, whereas these days it's tarot, because tarot is easier to learn. You know, if you see the death card, you see it's not a good one. If you see the nine of pentacles, you know it is a good one because it's very visual. But when it comes to the lines in your hand, you know people don't feel as responsive to it unless it's explained to them and it is so linked with astrology. I mean you can see a person's birth chart or natal chart manifest in some ways in their hands. I can always see that.

Kalem: 18:00

So I had to write a little book on it. Still writing it. It's taking a long time, but it was interesting to me because these are probably the oldest forms of divination astrology and palmistry and certainly for thousands of years in India they've known that they were connected, but there's not really been any studies on that. There should be. In my opinion. It should be studied in universities how the position of the planets, at the time of a person's birth, can influence the shape of the hand, the shape of their lines, the things that are going on in their hands. And it's right in front of us, but nobody seems to look at it properly.

Kim: 18:40

Because they're all looking at their phones.

Kalem: 18:42

Yes, Super boomery of me to say.

Kim: 18:45

I know.

Kalem: 18:47

It's true, though. I mean, I definitely feel like there's a technology demon or demons out there that are just kind of forcing our heads down and straining our eyes and making us less connected to this reality and more connected, in that realm, to this one. As we're staring into the screens right now. Yes, Hello.

Kim: 19:12

What is your biggest struggle when it comes to witchcraft?

Kalem: 19:17

Hmm, I will answer it in two parts because I feel like I need to separate divination from magic, even though they both come under the witchcraft umbrella. With divination, it was really burnout because I was doing it too much. You know I was doing readings. I would go to one residency during the week, another on the weekend, events in the evening, and then on my days off I would do online readings. Like there was just nothing about my own life was mine, it was all about other people and there was nothing present about it. It was always going into the future. So I got really, really burnt out from that. So it was learning like the boundaries and limitations and you know that I could still have a successful divination business without like running myself into the ground was the big struggle with that.

Kalem: 20:05

When it comes to witchcraft, more from like a magical perspective, it was probably like knowing what I'm good at and what I'm not and learning to accept that like I'm not good at love magic, I'm just not. I'm probably better at like curse work than I am at love magic, but it's not the one that I want. Um, you know I have a little bit of skill with magic, but it's not the one that I want. You know, I have a little bit of skill with the herbs, but I'm not really great at healing. I'm probably better at like manifesting sort of stuff. So it was recognizing my strengths and learning to appreciate them, instead of chasing something that I wasn't good at in the first place and trying to find reasons why it wasn't working for me. It's because it's not my skill, it's not my talent, they kind of lie elsewhere.

Kalem: 20:47

So I guess accepting what kind of witch I am and what I can do and what I can't because I feel like a lot of witches, especially if they're new to the craft or they feel like they were awakened to it in some way they want to be a jack of all trades. They want to be a really good tarot reader. They want to know all the herbs, they want to be a crystal healer. They want to be able to do black magic if need be. You know there's so many different aspects to it and people feel like they have to take everything. But really, you know, you've probably got your one good area and then dabble in some other stuff and that's fine.

Kim: 21:24

You don't need to do everything while you were talking, I was having a weird epiphany what was the epiphany?

Kalem: 21:31

what were you thinking about? I saw the.

Kim: 21:33

I saw the eyes, sort of the, the cog sticking behind them well, I thought I I do a lot of different things, but it it's not my specialty. This is kind of my specialty Interaction and maybe community building. That sounds so pompous when I say it aloud.

Kalem: 21:55

It sounds nice from here because I don't really have much of a. Even though I work in sort of witch shops and I have a few witchy friends, I don't really have a lot of community, so it's nice. You know, I'm I'm a bit envious of that. It doesn't sound pompous to me, oh it's not local.

Kim: 22:12

Yeah, I am working on local but it isn't local currently. But yeah, I've put some I and again I feel weird saying I did it, but I put together this group of amazing people and we do amazing work together and I love them all.

Kalem: 22:30

Mother witch. I don't know how it happened, but we just coalesced.

Kim: 22:34

It's weird.

Kalem: 22:35

It's a good thing.

Kim: 22:37

Now that I've displayed my self-doubt and imposter syndrome, tell me about yours.

Kalem: 22:43

Imposter syndrome is such a big thing. With fortune tellers, it doesn't matter if you're an astrologer, a tarot reader, a palmist, you know even psychic mediums. I think they get a lot of imposter accusations especially, so it's kind of not possible to not have the syndrome. But I really feel like I grew out of it at some point. I mean, it must have been. After like 4,000 readings, you know, and like 3,900 happy customers, I was like, well, I don't believe that all these people are deluded in their belief in me. You know, I predict the good things, I predict the bad things. I've startled myself with some details. I'm like, should I even say that? Like, is it possible for me to even know that? And they're like, well, yeah, that's spooky. And I'm like, well, that's just validation enough for me. But the older I get, the less I care what people think. I think I used to care a lot about it, especially from a business perspective with clients, but now I feel like I've got to a place where I've already proved it. I don't need to prove it to myself or anyone else, it's just something that I do. It works for me, it works for a lot of other people. It's never going to be for 100% of people. We're not trying to please absolutely everybody. I think it probably these days or more in recent years it would have tied back into that previous question of you know, am I a bad witch because I can't do a love spell? No, I'm just not a love witch, it's just not my thing. So I think I got over it eventually with time. But it's not going to be the same for everybody.

Kalem: 24:16

I have a lot of clients who get imposter syndrome though, whether they're learning to read tarot or they're starting out in spirituality or even for different kinds of professions as well, and I always tell them you know, like frauds really don't care. They don't care. They'll justify in their own mind. If you're literally sitting there and thinking, oh my God, I don't want to be a fraud, you're probably not, because you've got that sense of empathy and that sense of self-awareness or reflection. Fraudsters don't usually have that. They just usually either don't care or they're totally deluded in themselves. So I try to tell people don't worry about it too much. It's nice that you have the self-awareness, because that means that you want to do well, and I think if you know in yourself that you are trying to come at it from a genuine place. But it's like anything you know just because you can do it doesn't mean that you're any good at it.

Kalem: 25:12

I always say people ask me this. I wrote a newsletter recently and I titled it Is it A Gift? Because people always ask me how can you teach divination? Is it not just a gift you're born with? And I kind of say, well, you can take a cooking class, but does that make you a chef? You know, where does it kind of end and why do we see it differently? Just because it's something witchy or spiritual? It depends what you put into it. It depends on what you're being taught or what you're learning your natural aptitude, but also your practice. You're never going to become a great piano player if you don't actually have a piano and sit and play it. You can read as many books about it as you want, but you have to actually put in the time and effort. So I think as long as you're doing that, you know, let yourself off the hook. You don't have to be 100% at everything all of the time.

Kim: 26:08

I didn't expect to be thinking so hard during this interview. I thought we'd just talk about you reading palms and I was like, whatever, I won't be doing any mental lifting, but I am surprise to me that's a good thing what brings you the most joy in your practice.

Kalem: 26:35

Again it ties into one of the previous questions the motivation thing. These days it really is sharing my own experience. I'm learning. Part of the reason why I started the newsletter on my website is because I want to tell people the things that I've been through, because actually they were really amazing. Now I'm kind of having to pull them back in memory to share with people. That gives me a lot of joy because I feel like I've done enough in my career where if I wasn't to do another reading, I'd be like that's fine, I did enough anyway. You know, I don't need to keep doing it. I have enough stories to remember and recount for the rest of my life. I'm not going to fully retire, but I'm definitely never going to go back to doing that thing full time. Now I want to take joy in different ways by sharing my experience, sharing what I've learned and helping other people kind of figure out that it is for them, if it is for them, you know, and if they really want to commit to that thing.

Kim: 27:50

How old are you?

Kalem: 27:52

I know, I know I'm going to be 30 next week. Oh gosh, it's been a long 30 years, I will say that, like it's been a long last, three years, never mind 30. Like it's been a long last three years, nevermind 30. But I feel old, I really do, and I try to tell people you know, don't, don't let yourself get old, don't let yourself be bogged down by your life experience.

Kim: 28:21

But it is, it's hard not to to go there. That's so weird. I feel not old at all. I feel like my body is betraying the shit out of me. I'm 52 in two months, oh wow.

Kalem: 28:34

Yeah, I mean the screen's a little blurry, but I would have never known.

Kim: 28:38

Because I don't have any sense, but don't let that fool you. I'm getting a hip replacement in two weeks. What's something you did early on in your practice that you don't do anymore, and why don't you?

Kalem: 28:55

I think it's the same for a lot of people. I used to read a lot. I used to read a lot, a lot of books, and I don't have space anymore. I remember, right before lockdown a few years ago, I sold hundreds of books. I think it was like close to 400 books, and that wasn't even half, and now I have more.

Kalem: 29:15

So it's like there's no space in this house for books. I would like some. There's other things I like to read about, you know, but there's no space for it. And also, as it pertains to divination and witchcraft, I feel like the older I get, the more I don't want a book. I see a lot of people being like oh you know, my spell didn't work, so I probably shouldn't have substituted this with that. I probably should have done what the book said. I'm like no, you probably should have intuited what to do from yourself. You probably should have gone out, you know, into whatever nature you have around you and listen to the actual earth around you, rather than buying whatever's popular on Amazon and, you know, buying the tools and, uh, really reading someone else's instructions. I think magic has to be like super personal, uh, in that way.

Kim: 30:08

I just heard so many butts getting hurt when you said that.

Kalem: 30:14

It's not a bad thing to read from other people's perspective. For example, I have read so much on divination. I've read a lot about palmistry because it is. You know, manisha. I guess I've read Chinese palmistry, indian palmistry, romani palmistryisha. I guess I've read Chinese palmistry, indian palmistry, romani palmistry. But I'm not practicing those things. I just find them interesting and they kind of inform me of my own practice, rather than me taking that on.

Kalem: 30:39

Even with palm reading, I think people think it's a really difficult thing to learn. But if I say to you you know what do you think? The heart lane represents matters of the heart. You know it doesn't take a lot to get there. What do we think? A break on the heart line means Heartbreak maybe. Like you know, it's not hard to figure out if you just think about it. But if someone's just staring at their hand, they're like I have no idea what any of this means. But actually you probably would if you just looked at a palmistry poster, you know, seen the labels and then thought about it from an intuitive standpoint or a creative standpoint. The best things I've learned about palmistry are not things that have been in books. They're things that I've noticed from seeing thousands of hands and I'm like I can't believe no one's wrote about that before, like they're obviously not reading enough palms, because I'm seeing this one thing time and time again. It always means this, but it's not in a book anywhere. It's the best way to learn.

Kim: 31:38

Now I got to go look at my readings. What is your favorite tool?

Kalem: 31:47

It does not have to be a physical object um, apart from water, it would be the cards that my auntie gave me, because, I mean, they're so old and fragile like they'll never. I never take them out of the house and rarely do I ever use them, particularly because they're really harsh. Like you know that, reading with my uncle, it was like you're gonna get ill and die, and he did so. It's not, they're not particularly fluffy, they're definitely not oracle cards, but they are. They are so beautiful and when I read with them or when I look at them, I feel really connected to like a different time period, um, you know, back a hundred years ago when they were getting used.

Kalem: 32:27

I'm like these cards have done so many different readings. They have an amazing energy about them, but they also kind of hold the energy of the time when they were published or created, because they are very simple in a way, but they're also very harsh, but they're also very accurate. It's like there used to be a lot more transparency and truth in the world, although there was much more hardship. Um, I think everything's so put on nowadays. So I really I love them as a, as a tool, um, and I have a few more tools that will come my way one day from my auntie. She always says you know, my crystal will be yours one day. Her spirit planchette like it's just things from a different time that people don't really use a lot anymore, but back in the 1800s it would have been your main tools for divination anyway I never thought about that, the that the time they were made could influence how they talk to you yeah, I looked at the um the history of them.

Kalem: 33:29

It took me a while because we didn't have like a a box for them or anything.

Kalem: 33:33

They were sort of like an antique card box, but the original packaging was lost, I assume many decades ago, um, and they were printed in the year 1910, you know. So it's well over 100 years ago it. It just would have been a different world. And I remember looking up online, there's actually one card missing from because this was before the rise of the Nazi party and the swastika was kind of an ancient symbol really for good luck, I think it was actually an Eastern symbol originally but the Nazis kind of like tainted that symbol and so I think the card was probably removed, maybe around that period of the rise of the Nazis. I think it was probably binned, but especially because it didn't have any predictions written on it or anything, it probably wouldn't have been a big deal for it to be missing from the packet, especially since we have our own way of reading it that's not necessarily correlating to the original instructions. We do it in a little bit more of a folksy way that's interesting yeah, different time, different world before.

Kim: 34:54

That's cool, that's neat, yeah, yeah have you seen a picture of that card?

Kalem: 35:02

I've seen um from other decks because you can actually find uh copies of it online. It's not in print anymore or anything, but you can find antique copies of it. Um, I believe it's called the ramsey's fortune telling deck and there's a few different versions. There was also the nile fortune cards. Again, they've got these egyptian backs. I think it's like a symptom of tarot folklore because people used to think it was from egypt and in way the minor arcana is, but it's not really. Yeah. So I saw pictures of it online from from other people's findings of it, but we never had that card. You know, in my lifetime and our deck.

Kim: 35:44

That's so cool. Can you pick out one decision that you've made that changed your life, and what was it?

Kalem: 35:55

if you can, I think my life changed. Uh, I don't know if it was on my 22nd birthday, but it was definitely that week and it was just a decision to throw my life out, like my entire life. Like I quit my job. I'd been there two and a half years. I moved from the country to the city. I went vegan. After like 22 years of eating meat, I got sober and I hadn't been for probably a decade. I just kind of devoted myself.

Kim: 36:31

All at once.

Kalem: 36:33

Yeah, yeah, it was literally one day. It was like my 22nd birthday. It was really weird. I just turned 22 and I was like, no, not having this anymore.

Kalem: 36:41

And the big motivation behind it was a sort of like spiritual shift where I just wanted to devote myself to divination, firstly, but also just pursuing a different path, because I was kind of fitting into normal boxes, right the retail job, the apartment like down the street from the school where I grew up, and the normal relationships and just not really doing anything. That was true to me because I've always been like a bit of an out of the ordinary character. But you know, going through the, the 10 years of schooling that I did, it sort of trains you to to be a normal citizen, if you like, and to expect normal things in life. And I was just like, oh, but I'm not, I'm not that like, I'm not, I don't want any of that, so I'm not going to have any of it, you can keep it, I'm going to go over here and just take a chance and do something else.

Kalem: 37:29

And my life just became exponentially better. It kind of snowballed, uh into what it is today. Um, so I don't really know if it was like a specific moment, but it didn't seem to all happen within a day or a week. Um, it was like a tower moment, I guess tarot card readers would call it can you hear my rooster?

Kalem: 37:56

I heard a little something.

Kim: 37:57

Yeah, just a very tiny bit he's right outside this wall just screaming you know what's really weird.

Kalem: 38:06

So I don't do um crystal ball readings a lot, but for the new moon I opened up my diary for crystal ball readings and sometimes I see stuff in the crystal ball that I just have no idea what it means. Um, and it was a rooster but it had sunglasses on. I was like I'm not familiar with rooster symbolism. I'm definitely not familiar with sunglasses symbolism. So the two together I'm like what is this? It's so weird.

Kim: 38:34

You got to get up real early and face east. Animals tend to always be people in divination.

Kalem: 38:48

They tend to be like a person that represents that characteristic and apparently maybe even their outfit, because this rooster was wearing sunglasses. So weird stuff, rooster symbolism. I think there may be one of the Chinese zodiac signs. I'm not really into Chinese astrology, but I think they have the rooster Chinese zodiac signs. I'm not really into Chinese astrology, but I think they have the rooster.

Kim: 39:13

He's so loud.

Kalem: 39:16

Can't really hear it.

Kim: 39:18

How do you pull yourself out of a magical slump?

Kalem: 39:23

Just stop it. Just walk away. Don't bother away. Don't bother. Uh, forever doomed. No, but seriously, just stop it. Just just leave it alone for now. It's not good. It doesn't sound like the most motivational advice I've ever gotten.

Kim: 39:48

That's my favorite answer that I've ever gotten.

Kalem: 39:51

It's the same with literally anything. I mean a lot of people, no matter what kind of job or hobby they're in. We're all going to reach like an impasse. You've really liked that one.

Kim: 40:03

Oh, my God.

Kalem: 40:07

Need some breathing space.

Kim: 40:11

Oh my gosh, that's amazing.

Kalem: 40:16

Just stop. Very simple, I think. When you give it a break it'll come back to you.

Kim: 40:27

It's not going anywhere anytime soon I mean, I don't know how that's different. I just don't do that. I like do the opposite, but it's. I don't know why that hit me is so funny it's a big problem solving thing.

Kalem: 40:41

You'll see people kind of working on a problem and often like a fresh pair of eyes is really good. But also if you leave it alone and go for a walk and come back to it later, you'll be refreshed, because it's kind of like you're staring too hard at it. Um, so I would give it a big bit of a break. It's the same with divination. Like I was really really burnt out, um, just from doing year after year, day after day, so many readings, and I didn't even realize how stained I was with other people's stuff until it had been like three or four weeks and I hadn't done any. And I was like, oh, maybe that back pain that I've had for the last four years wasn't actually mine. Maybe I'm not a naturally depressed person, maybe I was just dealing with depressed people every day and feeling into that. So I was a. I was a bit worried, like going back to after taking a break that I wouldn't be able to do it, um, but actually I was doing it better because I'd had that break, I'd had that regeneration in that breathing space, um, but I I feel like witchcraft is different from religion in the way that religion is about conformity.

Kalem: 41:46

It's about going to church every sunday, you know. It's about praying a Mecca five times a day. Witchcraft's not like that. Witchcraft is your thing and it's there for when you need it and when you feel that it's right. You don't need to be told by someone else.

Kalem: 42:00

I think it's maybe going to be different for witches who really devote themselves to deity and they feel like they have something out there that they need to pay homage to or have a regular relationship or connection with. But I tend to think of them just as spirits anyway, and you shouldn't be bound to just one. Just be bound to yourself. Hold it to your standards, rather than the other way around. Um, you don't have to think of yourself as a god, but I also don't think it's helpful, as a witch, to see yourself as lesser um, because we are the other, we. We are powerful in that sense that we are different. So, yeah, go easy on yourself and don't feel like you have to to do something every day. You're. It's ridiculous. If you eat pasta for every meal every day, you're not going to like pasta anymore. It's not going to do anything for you, so order something else. You're so stuck on that.

Kim: 43:03

Just stop, just don't do it, don't do it, girl, just don't do it oh, that hit my Taurus heart you're gonna wake up in the middle of the night what's something you wish was discussed more in the witch community.

Kalem: 43:26

Oh, I remember reading that question earlier and I kind of got stuck on it. What's something you wish was discussed more in the witch community? Oh, I remember reading that question earlier and I kind of got stuck on it. Hmm, ah, so I thought about this earlier in the conversation actually Recognizing and not disowning something.

Kalem: 43:46

So, for example, a lot of what I would call folk magic right, a lot of it comes from the dominant faiths today. A lot of it, at least where I live a lot of the superstitions they are Christian superstitions. That doesn't mean you have to disown them. It still is part of your ancestry and the reality is like to me anyway, christianity is just a parable for astrology and other older religions as well. So it's just kind of evolving. But I think it's important to recognize that it is a part of that and don't just throw it away or try and make it something that it isn't.

Kalem: 44:28

I think a lot of witches you know immediately they want to disconnect from their ancestral faiths because they've had a bad experience, because their grandmother was Catholic and she was a horrible person and all this kind of stuff. But actually there's a lot to be learned there, because it is your history and you're always going to have bad people in anything. I'm not a fan of these religions, but I certainly wouldn't say that I haven't learned anything from them. You know what I mean, because it's influenced my culture, whether you're in the UK, europe, America. Not just Christianity I mean. To me they're just branches of Judaism, whether it's the Catholic Church, or Islam as well. They're all branches of this sort of political patriarchal. I don't want to call it spirituality but religion, and there is a lot of our own history dropped in there. So don't forget it, because you can't really climb back 3000 years to your pagan ancestors in one jump. You kind of have to go through a lot of people to get there, a lot of different spirits.

Kim: 45:34

I heard a bunch of feelings getting heard on that one too.

Kalem: 45:39

Yeah, I mean, it's not for everybody, you know, but I used to do it myself. I just vehemently was against what I call like the Abrahamic religions, you know, and they're not my faith, they're not my practice, but the reality is they were my ancestors for the last, however many centuries. And there is magic tied into that, especially in Scotland. I mean, our national animal is the unicorn. Do you know what I mean? It's one of the most magical places on earth, but it was Christian-dominated for centuries, and so the idea of spirituality and magic and superstition and spirit even it all ties into that. It's been influenced by that, whether we like it or not.

Kim: 46:22

This is so good.

Kalem: 46:26

I wish it wasn't, but yeah.

Kim: 46:30

I wish I could do without the trauma. But whatever it is, it is what it is. Know thy enemy, yeah think about the three biggest influences on your practice, whether it's a person or a philosophy or a book.

Kalem: 46:48

Thank them for what they've done for your practice I don't know if thank you is where I would start, but I'm gonna make it four. It would be saturn, uh, maybe neptune, then uranus, then pluto. Um, because these planets are horrible, horrible, horrible men or women, and how you look at some of them, horrible things, horrible beings that have brought so much destruction, disruption, chaos into my life. You know, neptune kind of made me spiritual, it made me intuitive, it gave me these sort of skills in fortune telling, but it also made me really confused and really blind to my own life. I've been living in like a cloud, the first long as I've been alive.

Kalem: 47:39

You know, pluto gave me a lot of power and independence, but it also destroyed so many things that I love Watching how these planets have moved over my lifetime and the different areas of my life. It's been absolutely tragic, but I also don't think I'd be formed without that. So I don't think thank you is necessarily because actually I could have got there without so much hardship, but you could have toned it down just a little bit. But it's not their style. Do you know what I mean? Like if you read the myths about saturn, this is the god that ate his own children alive. Like he's not, he's not going to push you into things gently. So yeah, horrible, horrible energies, but also created something amazing. Great energies, but great doesn't mean good, it means powerful, it means heavily influential. So they've definitely influenced me more than anything.

Kim: 48:38

What advice do you have for somebody just starting out?

Kalem: 48:43

In witchcraft. Actually, it's the same for witchcraft and divination. I would say follow your feelings and don't be taking up something just because someone else does it and you want to be that person. Be your own person. You know as much as you can learn from other people. Make sure you're learning and not imitating. Again, it's fine if you want to read books. I've read a lot of books. I enjoy it but I don't live my life based on the way someone has read a book. You know what I mean. That's why I'm not a Christian. I would say follow your own feelings and go with what interests you as well, because usually people's best skills or their best talent, their best power, lies in what actually interests them.

Kalem: 49:34

Rarely are people super bad at something they're interested in right rarely really someone might be listening and saying, well, I love singing, but other people hate it. You know, when it comes to witchcraft and divination, you do tend to find you know, if you're interested in divination it's probably good. You're probably going to be good at it. If you've got a particular interest in the herbs over other practices, you've witchcraft because it's so energy centered and about your feelings. You know you're going to want to put good feelings into something, or feelings of dedication into something, if you really want it to work out for you.

Kim: 50:30

Now that you've seen what the questions are like and what I am like, who do you think would be fun to have on the show?

Kalem: 50:38

oh, so I'm gonna say my friend, laura, because she I feel like she's a time witch. I'm not a Harry Potter fan, but I remember, like the it was like the second or third movie uh, the girl had like a stopwatch and she could turn it back and just do so many different things because time was on her side. She is like that because she runs the witchcraft store. She's the manager at the witchcraft store, uh, in evanborough, where I live, and we are the busiest shop. Um, it's crazy. We've got hundreds of products, we get hundreds of customers a day. There's so much to organize so she does that full-time.

Kalem: 51:15

She also has her own business, nymeria Bloom, where she, like, makes wreaths, um for the different sabbats, but also just magic wreaths in general. She I think she does witchy jewelry as well. She, uh is one of the co-founders of the Leith Witchcraft Market that runs every sabbat um, she's a teacher as well. Uh, there's just so many things she does. I think she'd rather be at home with her cats, but I find her really interesting. So I'm not sure she would have the time to talk to you, but I I think she's interesting and she's got some really, uh, interesting takes on witchcraft as well. Um, I think she has a bit of an interesting history with it, so I would recommend Laura Cooper, who goes by Nymeria Bloom online, if you want to find her.

Kim: 52:02

I will look her up, thank you.

Kalem: 52:04

Yes, I'll mention that I've unsolicitedly shouted her out.

Kim: 52:12

Is there anything else you wanted to bring up? Any questions that I didn't ask, or anything you wanted to ask me?

Kalem: 52:22

So, because I'm right in the middle of my Saturn return, everything in my life is delayed, but I am teaching. You know, I want people to sign up to the free newsletter because I enjoy writing it and I've had a really good response. If you want to learn divination or you want the free astrology forecast or you want special offers on readings, that kind of stuff, it's there. I will be running my palmistry course in spring. I think I'm going to do it in May, date yet to be confirmed, but I'll be doing it in May for anyone that wants to learn palmistry, because I've been doing it for so long.

Kalem: 52:56

Now I call myself Scotland's number one palm reader because there's no one that's kind of had the same career as me in the country, which is kind of nice because I've never been number one at anything in my life. So I feel like now that I can say that it's a good selling point for the course. But I find it so interesting and it will be a pre-recorded course, you know you can do it in your own time. But I'll also be having live Q&As with students, which is what I'm most excited about, because I feel like even there's stuff for me to learn in people's questions. You know, and and wanting to, to learn palmistry, there will be more in the future. Do you practice divination? I mean, what kind of, what kind of readings do you do, if any? A little bit, just a wee bit.

Kim: 53:40

Tiny, tiny bit, I am stepping into tarot.

Kalem: 53:47

Carefully, don't fall. So many people go to tarot first, but try not to get stuck on it. It is a good system to learn, but it's very contained in itself. Um, there are other systems. You can learn that kind of once you know one, you're immediately almost kind of going to know the other. But I feel like tarot is just its own system.

Kalem: 54:10

You know, you can learn to read different systems of tarot, but it's always going to be tarot, whereas if you learn like tea leaves, then you'd probably be able to read different systems of tarot, but it's always going to be tarot, whereas if you learn like tea leaves, then you'd probably be able to read dreams and crystal ball and all that kind of stuff as well. Or if you learn astrology, it's much easier to learn palmistry, you know? I mean like these things kind of go together, but tarot is very insular. So it's a good thing to learn, it's a really good tool, but don't get stuck on it, because a lot of people do they just kind of go with that and then don't really get into other forms of fortune telling.

Kim: 54:46

I usually just let other people do divination for me because that's not my thing.

Kalem: 54:50

That's good as well.

Kim: 54:54

So the last two things I ask of my guests. Thing number one is please recommend something. It does not have to be witchcraft related, just whatever you're into this week.

Kalem: 55:06

This week it's not this week, it was over a year ago. But as soon as you said that, I was like I'll recommend a place. So last year I took a spur of the moment trip to Romania, which was so wonderful. We drove all across Romania. People always ask about Bram Castle. You know, like Dracula Castle. I don't even think that was the real castle for him, but famously it is, and I think we went on like St David's Day or something and the castle was covered in these horrible yellow and pink giant papier-mâché flowers. It was not Dracula vibes whatsoever.

Kalem: 55:41

But when I was in Bucharest I went to Therm Spa, which is the biggest spa in Europe and it was so cheap to get into and it was incredible. It had heated indoor-outdoor pool. There was tropical trees around, you can swim up to the cocktail bar and pay with your locker key, dozens of infrared beds, different kinds of saunas. There was a crystal sauna. It was incredible. It was just a really cool place and I didn't know what to expect because I don't really know much about Romania or I didn't at the time. I didn't really know any Romanian people. But everyone was so wonderful and it was really cool to go into the wild as well. I remember we drove up a mountain and we actually drove through a cloud and when we got through the other end of the cloud, the place was covered in snow, but it was not snowing on the ground or at normal level, so it was quite a magical place. I'd recommend going.

Kalem: 56:44

I miss Europe. I miss Europe, the ground or at normal level. So it's quite a magical place. I'd recommend going. I miss europe. Yeah, it's really cheap as well. Uh, in romania the plane tickets were cheap, the places to stay were cheap. We got like a cabin. We got like this sort of I would call it like a cocaine apartment, you know. I mean like it had louis Vuitton doors and stuff obviously really fake.

Kalem: 56:54

But I don't know what you mean just the kind of place that looks like you know it would host a drug lord okay.

Kim: 57:09

So the last thing I ask of my guest is please tell me a story.

Kalem: 57:13

Tell me a story what kind of story do you want? A once upon a time kind of story.

Kim: 57:20

I'd like something ridiculous that happened to you in your life. But if you want to tell a once upon a time story, tell that.

Kalem: 57:27

I'm going to tell a story about a reading, because I remember reading through the questions and this one came to mind and it's actually the story of my favorite gift from a client. So I was reading a witch market one year. I don't do them anymore because they're a bit much. I think my record in one day was 37 readings and it's just too many people. But one day I was reading for this young lady and I was doing a Lenormand reading Again, it's those cards that are not tarot, it's a different sort of system. And I was doing a Lenormand reading Again, it's those cards that are not tarot, it's a different sort of system. And I was doing the reading and she was enjoying it and we covered a sort of handful of areas and I was drawn to, like the last card and it was actually the clover card.

Kalem: 58:08

And I was like, oh, I'm not really picking up anything, like I'm not really able to read anything, but the clover is really, really important here. I feel stuck on it. Like is the clover relevant to you in some way? Like does that mean anything to you, that symbol? And she goes into her pocket and she pulls out the tiniest envelope I've ever seen, still to this day. It was like the size of my fingertip the envelope and she says I think this is for you. So I'm trying to open this tiny, tiny envelope and I pull out a four-leafed clover, like she just had this in her pocket. I don't think I'd ever seen a four-leaf clover before and she told me I found four of these four four-leafed clovers in the same spot. So I've been giving them to people in moments that I think are appropriate.

Kalem: 58:53

This is the last one, so I was like that's spooky. That was really cool and of course I still have it. It's up on my bookshelf with some other cool stuff I have, but that was really nice. So if you ever get stuck on something in a reading, a symbol or whatever, ask the person does this mean something to you? It might not mean it in the moment or in the past. It might mean something in the future, but there it was right in her pocket in a tiny envelope. It was super weird. That's insane and I love it. Yeah, yeah, really cool.

Kim: 59:28

Well, thank you so much for being on the show. It was really fun to have you, really fun to have you.

Kalem: 59:35

Yes, thanks for having me. I always love doing podcasts. I love chatting about witchy stuff. I don't get to do it a lot in my own life because most of my friends are normal people. They're in those boxes.

Kim: 59:45

If you start a podcast, people will tell you anything.

Kalem: 59:51

That's the motivation is to get people's juicy gossip. I would like to start one in the future, but I'm not quite there.

Kim: 59:56

I would like to start one in the future.

Kalem: 59:57

Um, it's fun, but I'm not quite there. Yeah, I'm not quite there yet.

Kim: 1:00:01

Well, everybody go follow Kalem everywhere immediately and I will see you on the internet.

Kalem: 1:00:07

Okay, bye.

Kim: 1:00:08

Yes and uh links will be in show notes below. Yay, so Kalem.

Kalem: 1:00:16

Kalem, kalem, mm-hmm.

Kim: 1:00:19

Welcome to Hive House. Welcome to Hive House. Yay, we're here, hello.

Kalem: 1:00:22

Thanks for having me Exclusive club.

Kim: 1:00:25

Yes, I have cards, I have cards. Oh Say when Are?

Kalem: 1:00:32

you going to play a game? Are you going to read my fortune? What's happening?

Kim: 1:00:38

I oh Say when Are you going to play a game? Are you going?

Kalem: 1:00:40

to read my fortune. What's happening I'll tell you. When you pick a card, maybe now, now and I met this person after six years and they were wearing one of my t-shirts and it was actually. I was like it's been six years, I'm glad you got used to it.

Kim: 1:00:59

To hear more of the members only episode, head over to crepuscularconjurationcom. The monthly magic tier will give you access to the monthly magic Marco Polo group, the private Facebook group and access to the written monthly spells. There's also crepuscular conjurations, giving you bonus podcast episodes, coloring pages, guided meditations, spell crafting videos, printable downloads and a lot more. The free witchy wonderment level will give you a little sample of everything I just mentioned. You can also visit my shop, clever Kim's Curios, to get spell boxes, one at a time or by monthly subscription, intentional handcrafted jewelry that I make especially for witches and handmade altar tools. You can even listen to the full your Average Witch podcast library, including show notes and transcripts. Check it out at crepuscularconjurationcom.

Kim: 1:01:50

Thanks for listening to this episode of your Average Witch. You can find us all around the internet on Instagram, at your Average Witch Podcast, facebookcom, slash groups, slash hivehouse, at wwwyouraveragewitchcom and at your favorite podcast service. If you'd like to recommend someone for the podcast, like to be on it yourself, or if you'd like to advertise on the podcast, send an email to youraveragewitchpodcast at gmailcom. Thanks for listening and I'll see you next Tuesday. Thank you.