How to Thrive When Work Doesn’t Love You Back with Meico Whitlock

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You may enjoy the work you do, but you wish more than anything you had more time to simply sit, think, and hear your own thoughts. 

The truth is - if you really want to make a difference, you must start by taking time for yourself right now because you can’t “change the world” if you’re not around long enough to make that happen.

My guest on this episode can relate.

Meico Whitlock was on the verge of complete burnout, until he had “a breakdown that led to a breakthrough.” He’s now a recovering workaholic and a certified mindfulness teacher. Meico founded his company, Mindful Techie™ to help overworked professionals take an intentional, mindful, and trauma-informed approach to enhancing wellbeing and productivity by improving relationships with work, life, and technology. Meico is a former triathlete, loves salsa dancing, and makes the world’s best vegan chili!

Today we discuss the themes in his new book How to Thrive When Work Doesn’t Love You Back: A Practical Guide for Taking Care of Yourself While Changing The World (foreword by Beth Kanter)

About Meico Whitlock

Meico is The Mindful Changemaker and The Mindful Techie. He works with changemakers who want to improve their well-being so they can sustainably increase their well-doing in changing the world. 

He is the author of the Amazon bestseller How to Thrive When Work Doesn’t Love You Back: A Practical Guide for Taking Care of Yourself While Changing the World and The Intention Planner.

Meico is a former triathlete, loves salsa dancing, and makes the world’s best vegan chili!

He has worked for more than two decades across the non-profit, public, and private sectors leveraging information and communications technology to improve well-being in underserved communities as a software and web developer, communications director, trainer and facilitator, and mindfulness teacher.

As a transformational speaker, trainer, and coach, he facilitates transformative experiences that foster well-being in a hybrid world. He has worked with organizations such as the U.S. Federal Government, Cigna, and the World Wildlife Fund, and has been a featured speaker on ABC News, Fox 5, and Radio One. 

He holds an M.S. in Information Science from the University of Michigan and a B.A. in Political Science and Spanish from Morehouse College. He is also a certified trauma-informed mindfulness teacher.

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Transcript

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Galas are terrible to plan. Anyone who says otherwise is likely in their post event glow. But plan that we must, because for new donors, galas are low risk ways to get to know your mission. A well done event is a really effective reputation builder. They're also a great moment of pride and community for existing donors. So we dread Galas and the six months of planning they bring, but we do them anyway. That's where rsvpfi can help. RSVPify has been partnering with nonprofit organizations for the last decade, helping them create seamless event registration, ticket and table selling and check in experiences. Plan your gala, instill donor confidence, and raise more funds for your mission with rsvpify. Get started for free@rsvpify.org dot that's rsvpify.org and use the promo code nonprofitnation 50 for 50% off any upgrade. Rsvpfi your mission our software hello, and welcome to Nonprofit Nation. I'm your host, Julia Campbell, and I'm gonna sit down with nonprofit industry experts, fundraisers, marketers, and everyone in between to get real and discuss what it takes to build that movement that you've been dreaming of. I created the nonprofit nation podcast to share practical wisdom and strategies to help you confidently find your voice, definitively grow your audience, and effectively build your movement. If you're a nonprofit newbie or an experienced professional who's looking to get more visibility, reach more people, and create even more impact, then you're in the right place. Let's get started. All right. Hello. Thanks for being here today. This is another episode of Nonprofit Nation with your host, Julia Campbell. So let me ask you a question. You may enjoy the work you do, but do you wish more than anything that you had more time to simply sit and think and hear your own thoughts? Well, the truth is, if you really want to make a difference, you must start by taking time for yourself right now, because you can't change the world if you're not around long enough to make that happen. And my guest on this episode can relate. So Mikko Whitlock was on the verge of complete burnout until he had a breakdown that led to a breakthrough. He's now a recovering workaholic, which I wish that I was, and a certified mindfulness teacher. Miko founded his company, Mindful Techie, to help overworked professionals take an intentional, mindful, and trauma informed approach to enhancing well being and productivity by improving relationships with work life and technology. He's also a former triathlete, loves salsa dancing, and makes the world's best vegan chili. So today we discuss the themes in his brand new book, how to thrive when work doesn't love you back. A practical guide for taking care of yourself while changing the world with a forward by Beth Kanter, who we know. I fangirl over good friend. Absolutely love, Mika. Welcome. I'm so happy to have you back on the podcast. It's great to be back and I'm always excited to talk with you. Yes. So, you know, let's talk about what got you started in this work. And specifically, you write in your bio and on your website that you had a breakdown that led to a breakthrough. Absolutely. Give us as much or as little information as you want about that. If you don't want to, if you want to dive into it, by all means. So I've worked across sectors just to paint a picture, but most of my career I've worked in government and nonprofit. And that was a decision that I made very early on based on my upbringing and just being really mindful of the resources that I had access to, to being raised by a single mom and realizing the resources that we had access to how hard my mom worked in, just made a decision very early on that I wanted to dedicate my professional career to some form of public service as a way of really recognizing and giving back. And worked mostly in government and nonprofit worked. And one of the things that I saw in doing that work was that there was this normalized cycle of burnout where people burned out, people left, people moved to other sectors, people took sabbaticals, people took vacations, they came back and they rinsed and repeated the same process. And we saw this cycle over and over again. And in my last role before leaving the nonprofit space, I encountered my own challenges with that. As a nonprofit communications director, I was the first in my particular role to be a full time communications staff person hired to build out a team, hired to put in place the strategy and processes and so on and so forth. I was excited about that work and really cared deeply about the work that I was doing. But I reached a point where the way in which I was working wasn't sustainable. And I had really a life changing moment where I realized that I could actually drop dead from overwork and my legacy would be that I was really good with answering emails and managing projects. And so when I had that realization, when I realized the potential negative impact on my health and realized that there had to be a different way to approach this, like, if we're going to be able to do this work in a sustainable way. If we're literally about the business of changing the world, then how can we do that if no one is really around long enough to be able to do that in a sustainable way? And that really started me on this journey to really understanding what are the things that I have that are within my control. And at that particular point in my journey, I realized that my own spiritual and personal development that I had been doing outside of work, I had sort of disconnected from. Because I think in some spaces, we feel like we can't bring our whole selves to the work that we're doing. And for me, that was actually a dangerous thing. And so I begin to take a step back and realize, okay, what is it that actually nourishes me? What is it that actually sustains me, and how can I bring that and integrate that into how I'm actually doing the work? How can I bring that to how I'm managing my team? And that started a beautiful journey where I gave a short talk at a conference many, many years ago about this journey. And that led to an opportunity to be able to support other change makers who were on a similar journey with figuring out essentially what I would describe as how do we increase our well being so that we can increase our well doing? Because ultimately, we're in the space, we're in this sector, because we want to leave the world better than we found it. So how do we do that? But how do we take care of ourselves at the same time? Like, those two things don't have to be contradictory. Oh, wow. I love that those two things don't have to be contradictory. I think so many of us in the sector think that. So you are a certified mindfulness teacher. Have you seen. I mean, I know. I think I know the answer to this, at least I know how I'm feeling. But have you seen increased stress and burnout in the last few years? And, like, what kind of trends are you seeing in the workforce? Absolutely. So for many of the change makers that I talked to, yes, there has been an increase in stress and burnout and also a different type of stress and burnout. And I think part of it has to do with the shift that we've seen with hybrid work, where one of the beautiful things is that the work can continue and we can connect and collaborate personally, professionally, anytime, anywhere, virtually from any device. But one of the downsides of that are these expectations that come with that, whether they are spoken or unspoken, that, okay, now you can do the work anytime, anywhere, from any device. We actually expect you to be available anytime, anywhere from any device. Right. And so that's a new level of stress that we're, that we're carrying on top of the fact that, you know, what, what it looks like in terms of child care and caregiving and all those things, that has also shifted as a result of the pandemic as well. So that's one aspect of what I'm seeing in terms of challenges. Something else that I'm seeing is what I would describe as unhealed or unacknowledged trauma that was perhaps created or exacerbated by the pandemic. And I know that we, some folks talk about being in a post pandemic role, but I believe based on what I'm seeing with folks that I work with, that we're still dealing with that and we're dealing with grief that perhaps hasn't been acknowledged, hasn't been processed, whether that's loss of loved ones, whether that's loss of a way of life that's never going to return, loss of what we thought we were going to have. But that was sort of upended as a result of the pandemic. Right. Loss of what you thought your child's kindergarten first year would be like. Exactly. I'm speaking for me. Yes, absolutely. So we have all those things and we haven't, in a robust way, collectively made up, made space for people to process that. And what that means is that people are carrying that as background stress. People are carrying that as mental and emotional gunk in the background. And it's sort of like people are driving with the parking brake on for some people. And so we have this happening in the background. And of course, as we look forward, for some people, there's lots of anxiety about what the future is going to hold, lots of uncertainty, lots of thoughts, particularly in our sector, about when we think about AI and technology, what's happening politically, what's happening in terms of available resources financially. You know, are we individually and collectively, are we still relevant? Will we still be relevant moving forward? That's another level of background stress that we don't talk about because we're so focused on trying to meet the mission right now in this moment. And I know lots of folks are sort of struggling to hold it together. People feel like they're sort of duct taping things together to keep it together and they don't have space to do some of this other work, which I would describe as the inner work that really enables us and fuels us to do the work in a sustainable way. In my review, oh, my gosh. I'm just writing this down, how to stay relevant. Are we relevant? I really believe that. That absolutely. That absolutely contributes to so much anxiety and stress. So, you know, how is this really contributing to the stress and burnout? Like, what can we, you know, how does this show up for us? And, like, what does this look like? So one of the ways that I like to describe this that I think is really helpful is this concept of swirling. So one of my colleagues and friends, Nicola Brown, she has a. A wellness community called Kokoro, and she talks about this idea that when we think about uncertainty and when we think about the hyper complex world that we're living in, when we think about the grief and all of those things, for many of us in this season, it sort of swirls together to create this experience. We feel like maybe we're in a tornado and we've been swept off the ground, like in the wizard of Isles, for example, and we're trying to get our feet on the ground, but it's really difficult for us to do that. Or it feels like maybe, you know, we've been thrown in a deep end of a pool and we're just treading water and we're doing the best we can to keep our head above water. So many folks, that is the feeling that you have right now, because not only are you dealing with the unpredictable and changing and evolving nature of the workplace in this post pandemic world, but you're also, you know, a parent, you're also caregiving for an elderly family member. You're also just struggling to really just take care of yourself and do the basic things like keep the laundry done and fold it and cook meals and all those things, not to mention what you need in order to pour into yourself and the things that you take joy in. So this is sort of just painting a picture in terms of what folks are feeling like. And then I'll just wrap this up by saying that another way to think about this is that feeling like maybe you're constantly caught off guard or that you're constantly playing catch up. And when we think about AI, for example, in this conversation about relevance, lots of folks have lots of anxiety around them and feeling like, okay, well, am I individually in terms of my skill set? And is my organization sort of being left behind if we're not chasing after all the shiny new things and we aren't sort of on the bandwagon of all the stuff that we see in the headlines, are we missing out on something? Are we not meeting our mission in the way that we need to. And that can create a sense of dread and demotivation that exacerbates any type of burnout you might be experiencing. I feel like I've talked about this topic a lot with other people in the sector and even with other, you know, working parents, but the word dread, that really speaks to me. I think a lot of us do have this, like you just said, caught off guard. You know, we're swirling. We are constantly feeling stress and anxiety over what could be or things that we don't know. And there's so much that's unknown, and things are moving so fast. So I just. For anyone listening, I mean, I really think that this. You're not alone if you're feeling any of these things. Absolutely. But in terms of the book, I mean, it's really a practical guide to address this. So it's called how to thrive when work doesn't love you back, which is literally one of the best titles. I love that. So who is this book for? So, this book is for change makers like you and me. So changemakers, as I define them, are people who are working for mission driven nonprofits, government agencies, purpose driven for profits. But you're all focused on, in some way, making a difference for people, animals, and or the environment. And your primary motivation is not about money. It's not about fame. It's not about power. It's really about leaving the world better than you found it. And so there are lots of resources out there around burnout and some different aspects of workplace stress and well being, but there isn't a whole lot out there about the unique experience of change makers in the space. And so while some of the principles can be applicable across sectors, I really wrote this book as really like a love letter to the folks in our sector. I love that. And how should people use the book? So, as you mentioned, it's a practical guide. It's a toolkit, so you can read it from start to finish. The book is organized based on these different commitments and different aspects of our well being and well doing. So if there's certain aspects of that that resonate with you more than others, you can skip around. It's a reference guide that you can use personally. It's also a tool that you can use if you want to make the case for making changes at the team or the organizational level. It's a resource guide to really help you figure out how you get started. The last thing I'll say here is that I recognize, and I'll talk about this in the introduction to the book, that there are larger systemic issues we have to deal with at our organizational level, at the sector wide level, and even in terms of how our society is structured. But the reality is that for most of us, we may not be in positions of that type of influence and impact right now. And so the book is really focused on acknowledging, yes, we have these externalities that you might not have control over at your level, but here are some practical things that you can do right now to begin to feel relief, to begin to increase your sense of well being, and to be able to increase your capacity to show up more fully for yourself and for your work. And longer term, we can make space to deal with some of these other external things. But here's some things you can do right here and now. And you have a framework detailed in the book, right? I call it a framework, the change c h a n G E framework. Yes, but you call them commitments, which I think is amazing. So I want to touch on each of the letters briefly, if you will. Indulge us. I know we have to buy the book to really dive into it, but tell me about the change framework. Excellent. So these are six commitments that follow the word change. So the acronym change. And these are what I would describe as six commitments for well being while well doing. Or another way to think about this is what it means to be a mindful change maker, doing the inner work and the outer work of mindful change making. And so as we dive into these letters, I want to first describe that this isn't a linear process. These are commitments that you embody at a certain level, certain minimum level, simultaneously. So if you think about a dashboard of a car, you have the indicator that shows you how much oil you have and how fast you're going and how much fuel you have and what's the temperature of the engine. All of those gauges are simultaneously important for us to understand how well your car is functioning in terms of helping you to get from point a to point b. Similarly, we can think of these commitments as well. The other thing I'll share as we dive into this is that where you are in each of these commitments might change and ebb and flow based on seasons of life and work. It's not about judging yourself, you're just collecting information. In the same way that if you're doing a GPS to get from point a to point b, the GPS isn't judging you for where you're starting. It's GPS is simply asking you, where are you? So I can help you get to from where you are to where it is that you want to go. So let me dive in here. So I'll go through these really, really quickly. There might be a roadblock along the way. Exactly. There might be a d, two, r that you know about. Exactly. And that's perfectly okay. As part of the journey, as part of the process. This isn't about perfection. This isn't about taking an exam and trying to get 100% score across the board. This is about really understanding where you are, what you need, and how do you, if you desire to be in a different place, what are some things you can do to shift so that you can get to that different place? So the first place that we start with the letter c is about connecting to your why. And this is really connecting to or reconnecting to what inspires you to do the change making work. For many of us, sometimes we get so caught in the wheeze, maybe we've been doing things for so long a certain way that we are. We're moving, Anita, we're busy. You know, we have a full schedule, but we're disconnected from why we actually chose to do the work to begin with. And that in and of itself can be a source of burnout and demotivation if you just feel like you're just going through the motions. Right. So connecting to your why, critically important second letter here or second commitment, honoring your priorities. So when you clear about your why, it's easier, not necessarily easy, but easier to get clear about the priorities that are aligned with that why many of us have probably a mile long to do list that never seems to get shorter. It just seems to get bigger or longer or more expansive. And we have lots of great things that we're excited about that probably make sense to focus on. But when you're clear about your why in a particular moment, in a particular season, you're able to be clear about which of those priorities perhaps are going to be more urgent in terms of moving your why forward compared to some of the other things which might be nice to do, nice to have, but aren't necessarily what you need to focus on right now. So connecting to your why. Honoring your priorities. The next letter that we have here is a. So this is really about acknowledging your fears and limiting beliefs. And we alluded to this earlier when we talked about some of the mental and emotional toll that we are experiencing. The background stress that maybe we are carrying with us as we're trying to move forward and carry their work forward in this particular season. And maybe you have challenges with imposter syndrome. Maybe you have unresolved grief. Maybe you have some other things that are getting in the way. But we don't have to pretend like those things don't exist. We can acknowledge those things, that they're a part of us. We can honor those things, but we can also constructively confront those things so that there aren't barriers, but they can actually be fueled to help us to get from where we are to where it is that we want to go. And so once you've done that work of acknowledging your fears and limiting beliefs, that really sets you up to focus on the next commitment, which is about negotiating boundaries. And so once you clear out your priorities and your why, you have to make space to actually focus on that. And negotiating boundaries is an important skill set that we need to have in doing it. How do you say yes? And how do you say no the right way? How do you say no or not? Right now, all of those things are very important. Oftentimes, one of the reasons we fail to really set and or protect boundaries is because we have underlying fears or doubts about what people are going to think about me, that people think I'm not as committed when people think that I'm being a slacker, what people think that I'm not good at my job. Like, we have all these things that are going on, and so we say, you know, I'm going to say yes to that because I want them to think that I'm a team player and that I'm really bringing my a game, or I want her to think that I'm a superstar. Because we have all these thoughts about what other people are thinking about us. So these commitments are interconnected in that way. The n and change. Yeah, the n and change. And then the g is all about generating space to go within. So we spend so much time generating space to actually do the work in terms of the meetings and, you know, the projects and, you know, the funder reports and. And all of those things. But when do we actually make the space to nourish ourselves, to fill our own cup? You know, we've probably for folks that fly off, and maybe you've heard at some point or another that in the event of an emergency, an oxygen mask might drop down from the, from above and to secure your own oxygen masks before you help someone else secure their masks. The same or similar concept applies here, which is thinking about what does it mean to secure your own oxygen mask on a consistent basis before you then go out and try to save the world and put an oxygen mask on the world. Oftentimes our burnout is connected to the fact that we're rushing out to save someone else, to do this project or to do that. And we haven't fully resourced on ourselves. And so we have short term success, but then we eventually get tired, we burn out, we become resentful, we become demotivated, and we have this cycle where we go away, we come back, maybe we switch jobs within the sector. How many people job hop from job to job because, like, oh, well, I lost my motivation and passion for what it was that I was doing, and they burn out. And it's like, you know, I'm going to switch to another organization, and they repeat the cycle over and over again. And then the final here is about bringing all of these commitments together, the e embodying well being while well doing. And this is really an intentional focus on integrating all of these commitments so that you experience a sustained commitment to yourself and you're able to nourish yourself and have your cup filled in such a way that you are. When you think about your work, you are overflowing into your work as opposed to being drained by your work. Yeah. So it's about the integration. I love that all of these exist together, and you have to think about them simultaneously. And, like, maybe some of them are weighing on you a little bit more depending on the season you're in, like you said. Or maybe some of them are a little bit easier to do. Like, I think, you know, the letter n negotiate boundaries, I think is one that is incredibly challenging for people, especially people in the nonprofit sector, because it's predominantly women and it's predominantly people that have gone into the sector to do good, to serve others, and we just want to do the work. And oftentimes we don't want to take any time for ourselves or we feel guilty taking time for ourselves. So that acknowledging your fears and limiting beliefs around this kind of work is so important. So I love that framework. Thank you. How did you come up with that? Just all of the different things that you see. So I meant. So this work that I do is embodied. And what I mean by that is that it's not theoretical in the sense that I am looking at a particular framework or a particular set of evidence and thinking about how I. How can I translate this for people in the sector? It really was, as I think about that, my experience with burnout and a particularly life threatening condition, really taking some time to reflect and think about what are the things that actually were impactful for me. I began to teach that and began to see what worked and what didn't work, get feedback from folks, and that ultimately led to this particular framework that I have here, which I've actually been teaching, and I've just been able to use the acronym change to really bring it all together. But it's a reflection of what I've been teaching, what I'm actually embodying, and what's actually working for folks that I work with. So, question. I'm gonna play a little devil's advocate here. Sure. How can we secure, buy in, and advocate for our well being while well doing if our supervisor or coworkers are workaholics? That's a really great question. And I think the first place to start is by accepting the reality that whatever action you choose to take, the dynamic may not change where you are, and you're gonna have to make a hard decision about whether or not that is the place for you. Right. We don't often have this conversation, but I think this is a great place to start. Right. You can do what you can do, but ultimately, you have to acknowledge that reality and that you might not be in a place that's actually aligned in terms of mission and values and embodiment of that mission and value. So that's before you even begin to have this conversation. Just being willing to understand what the range of consequences might be and what the decision is that you might need to make as a result of that. Yes, I love that. I think absolutely. That's so important that you need to really have this tough conversation with yourself. Yes. This is something that's really hurting you physically, emotionally, spiritually. Can you still be in a place when you've expressed it, you know, when you've tried to make changes on your own, but people are not embracing it. And I see this a lot because I work with, with a lot of development directors, marketing directors, and I, unfortunately see this misalignment a lot. So I think that's really helpful. So, yeah, so once you have done that acknowledgement and you're ready to actually see what you can do in the context of where you are, I think a great place to start is really trying to figure out what are the shared mission and values in the work that you're doing, and how can you connect whatever this ask is around well being to that and really framing it as a way to think about not just short term gains, but how can we, long term, as a team, as an organization, do better work, have greater impact, but do that in a sustainable way while we're taking care of ourselves. That is, in terms of orientation, one place to start another, a thing that is very effective for lots of organizations. Sometimes folks need to hear it from an outside messenger. So sharing a podcast episode like this with your boss or with your team, we mentioned the book, for example, there's a chapter in the appendix specifically about team leaders and what team leaders can do. So maybe thinking about that as a resource, even thinking about not just sending those things blindly, but actually, you know, saying, hey, you know, I came across this interesting resource. We'll have to talk with you for five minutes during our next check in or at the next team meeting and just really get some feedback about what your thoughts on this and what can we do. And then the final thing that I think in terms of just really getting started with this is really make it easy. So starting small. And so I remember, you know, when I managed a team, you know, you're often so busy that if someone is coming to you with a complaint or a request, oftentimes it's easier for you to act on that if someone already has an idea of what they actually want you to do as opposed to just bringing you a problem. So this might not, in an ideal world, this might not be how you want things to work, but the reality is that if you're working in an organization where someone is a workaholic, chances are there are not a lot of resources financially, not a lot of people resources. This person is probably overwhelmed and overworked. And so the more you can do to make it easier for this, for this person to get on board, the more likely that you're going to be able to get buy in? So what does this look like? Are you able to tap into resources that are underutilized in terms of your health insurance plan or your employee assistance program? I've worked with organizations where they actually have a development budget to bring in trainers or consultants and the insurance company or the EAP will actually pay for that training, for example. Are there feedback mechanisms that are already built into how your organization is assessing overall, how the organization is doing? And are you and your colleagues actually using that feedback mechanism to actually talk about what you need in terms of well being? Right. Those are things that probably already exist for lots of organizations. Are we actually using that as a way to communicate what it is that you need? Are there simple things that you can do in terms of how you start in meetings, having a moment of silence, having a mindful breathing exercise, and stepping up to either lead one of those activities. Finding a video. I have videos that are very short that you can use to guide through this insight timer is an app that I use. There are lots of free resources and low cost resources that are already out there to tap into. And then the final is identifying who the allies are in your organization and in your circle that you can work with. Sometimes the healing that we experience is by simply being able to have someone hear and acknowledge our pain, acknowledge our struggle and acknowledge our talent. And sometimes that makes enough space for us to be able to navigate the rest of these pieces that might take a little bit more time to put in place. Such good advice. And I'm thinking I'm going to need to re go back here and listen to this. Re listen to this. What are some of your tips for minimizing distractions in this kind of, like, noisy world? So, like, I love Cal Newport's method of our time blocking. I use his time blocking planner and read all of his books, essentialism and, you know, the digital distraction and everything. But what are some of your tips? Like, how can we get out of this constant hamster wheel of notifications, emails and other demands on our attention? So a few things I'll share really quickly. So one is the concept of what I described as having a start and stop and midday reset routine for your workday. And this is particularly important for folks that might be working hybrid schedule where you don't have, for example, the fact that you're going in person to a different place every day as an opportunity to create some separation between perhaps personal life and some of the work things that you're doing when it comes to your start and stop routine, these are things, as I think about them, that you do to nourish yourself, to pour into yourself. So for me, for example, meditation and working out are an important part of that for me in terms of my daily routine and part of my start and stop routines. So I invite people to think about what does that actually look like for you? And in terms of making it accessible, also giving yourself permission to have it not necessarily have to look the same way every day. Part of what trips people up is they feel like, oh, well, you know, if I really like yoga or if I really like walking, and that's not something that's accessible for me to do every day, then I'm just not going to do anything at all. Right. So I invite people to right size your routine and give yourself a bit of options. So there are days where I don't have time to do a full meditation. But I can do 1 minute, I can do five minutes, and I can count that as a meditation. There are days when I can do a full half hour, and that's great, right? I give myself permission to choose what do I need and what do I have the capacity to do in a particular season, in a particular day and give myself grace to be able to do that. So I think that's one powerful place to start. And I think no matter how busy you are, no matter how overwhelmed you are, we can all start with maybe one to five minutes, if that's all we have to carve out for ourselves, to pour into ourselves. Something else that I'll. Oh, go ahead. Yep. No, no, keep going. Something else that I'll share a really quick tip in terms of devices. Many of the devices now in the Android and the Apple ecosystem have the option to automate your do not disturb settings, where you're able to shut off notifications. You're able to dim your screen at a certain time. And so for me, mine is set for, I think,

from 09:00 p.m. to 10: 35:28

00 a.m. that's my particular cutoff in terms of notifications. So at that time, those notifications are shut off. Text messages are able to come through, but I don't hear the ping and the ding. I don't see it flash up on the screen. If it's an emergency, people can, that are in my favorites list. They can call and they can still get through. But these are opportunities to really figure out how we create a bit of a balance when we're working and when we're sleeping, then the final thing I'll share here is, if this is such a disruption for you, particularly when it comes to sleep and work, consider charging your device outside of your sleeping and work area. As a family, you can have a centralized charging station. Buy a real alarm clock. For lots of folks, this is game changing. I actually have one of those sunrise alarm clocks that brightens up the room gradually over time. And so depending on your budget, there's the low budget option and there's the more expensive ones, but you don't really need anything really fancy to make this work for you. I really love that. And you know, I was saying earlier how I have a teenager and really struggle, but there are apps available like Life 360 and then also on the iPhone where you can turn the phone off from data and Wi Fi at a certain time of night, but I never even thought about that. Like, I know all the devices are off, but I never thought about, like, putting them in a separate place to charge and having an actual, like, old school alarm clock. I love that. Yes, absolutely. So what about social media? I know you took a break and you write about it how you took a break. How should we be using this and if at all? Yeah. So I think this is another area where you want to be intentional about what you are intending to get out of your social media experience. Is it something that you're using to stay connected with folks? Is it something that you're using sort of as a stress reliever, where you just want to browse during your downtime and it's just something where you get to, quote unquote, turn off your brain being clear about that, but then also setting parameters around that. So in both the Android and the Apple ecosystem, there are settings built into the actual IO to the operating system, but also in some of the apps where you can set timers that remind you about how often you are on these platforms, how much time you're spending on the platforms, maybe setting an intention about how much time you want to spend, and doing the best you can to honor that using some of the tools that are available there. Some tools that I am a fan of. So one is called nudge. So if you are doing using a computer, for example, and you're working during the workday, this is a plugin for the major browsers, Firefox, Chrome, Brave, etcetera, that block major distracting websites. So for me, these are news websites and these are social media platforms. And what this plugin does is if you are trying to access one of those websites, you have to slide a slider in order to actually open the page. And the more time you spend on those websites, or the more time you try to go back to those websites. So let's say if I'm trying to access Facebook on my computer, I slide this out at one time, maybe it's easier to do. But if I'm accessing Facebook, you know, three, three to five times or something like that, each time it's going to get harder and harder for me to slide that slider. And that's just an opportunity for me to pause and really ask myself, do I really want to be spending time on this website right now? So, very interesting browser that I. Browser tool that I love, that really helps you to really pause and to reflect on what it is that you're doing and what your intention is. A new tool that I've been recently made aware of is called minimus. And so this is a startup that they've developed a way to do this for mobile devices. So for the longest time, a lot of these tools have only been browser based for your computer. But this is one tool that's actually across both Android and Apple, something that you can use on your device. And what this does is it really locks down, you know, your social media, and in order to open it, you have to answer a series of prompts in order to be able to actually access. Oh, I've seen the ones, like, for drunk texting. Have you seen them? I have not. I can only imagine that, I mean. I have not used this for years, but it was like, way back when cell phones first started, and it was like after midnight, you'd have to answer a series of math equations. Yeah. So it's a similar. Yeah, so a similar concept in terms of just being mindful of your usage of some of these platforms and really just give you an opportunity to pause and to really reflect on, is this the best use of your time right now? And it's not a judgment. Right. So I don't think necessarily social media is bad, but we just want to have the context that the intention behind it, and also recognizing that it's not just about your personal ability to manage, you also have to recognize that there are external forces that are, that are operating against you. Right. There's a profit motive that is driving design to capture and keep your attention for as long as possible. And so you can still use social media and be mindful of that, but just be aware of that in terms of setting your intention and how you're using those platforms. I know you have a lot of other tools, but actually, I would love to list them out in the show notes. Sure. So I'm going to do a whole list of, like, Miko's tools, if you want to send them to me. I know there's so many, there's just so many tools out there, and I know people really, really want to hear the tools, but I wanted to end well. I want to know where people can find you, but where should we start? If we're listening to this and we just feel so overwhelmed and we feel like we can't even take that first step, like, what would you recommend? I think the first place to start is to give yourself grace and to recognize that no matter how things are showing up for you right now, no matter how you're feeling right now in this moment, I know, even if you can't feel it, even if you can't know it for yourself. I know that you're doing the best you can with what you have right where you are, and if you could do better, that you would be doing better, right? So I think you can acknowledge that, like, that you're doing the best you can, and that is good enough. It's actually unkind to expect anything more than that. And from that place of giving yourself grace, then we're able to extend that grace to other people as well, who are, wherever they are, on their particular journey. So I think that's the really, the first place to start. The second is really think about what's the smallest thing that you can do for yourself over the next seven days? And let's just take this concept of workplace well being. Maybe it's something as simple as saying, you know what, I'm going to call the HR person or I'm going to call the health insurance plan to find out what mental health coverage do I have right? Does it cover therapy? If so, like, what is the process for actually getting into therapy? Or if you really want to set an intentional goal around fitness, a lot of plans offer discounted gym memberships. There are online resources you can get access to, a nutrition counselor. There are a whole host of things that aren't well taken advantage of. And simply calling and just inquiring about what those are, that should take you less than 15 minutes to do. You can do that in the next seven days. You can set up to do not disturb. Right? That should take you less than 15 minutes to do. You can say, you know what, the next seven days, I'm going to set up this do not disturb on my phone and really commit to not using my device when I'm sleeping, for example. And again, less than 15 minutes, something that's really simple to do. Then the final thing I will say is, it's okay to ask for help. I think sometimes in the folks that are attracted to the space and the personality, we feel like we have to do it all on our own. And I know that there are structural aspects to the work that contribute to lack of resources, chronic understaffing and so on. And so we feel like we have to carry that forward in every aspect of our lives. But we're all on this journey together. None of us does this work alone. And one of the most powerful things that we can do is to simply say, you know what, I actually need hope. And to ask for help and be okay with that. I love it. Speaking of asking for help, where can people find you? Learn more about the book and more about some of your resources, you can. Go to my website, mindfultechy.com and sign up for the email list. So that's mindfultechie.com. sign up for the email list and you get connected to all the resources and stay up to date on all the latest and greatest things that are happening. And then I also in terms of social media platforms, LinkedIn is my platform of choice. And so if you want to connect with me on social media, invite you to connect with me on LinkedIn. Send me a message, let me know how you heard about me and would love to see how I can support or just be connected. Thank you. Miko. I absolutely love this episode. I think it's going to help so many people and I just, I really appreciate all of the amazing insight, wisdom, just really great advice and support that you put out for the sector and beyond. So thank you. Thank you. Well, hey there. I wanted to say thank you for tuning into my show and for listening all the way to the end. If you really enjoyed today's conversation, make sure to subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast app and you'll get new episodes downloaded as soon as they come out. I would love if you left me a rating or a review because this tells other people that my podcast is worth listening to and then me and my guests can reach even more earbuds and create even more impact. So that's pretty much it. I'll be back soon with a brand new episode, but until then, you can find me on Instagram. Uliac Campbell, 77 keep changing the world nonprofit unicorn.