Children 0:00
We think you should know that Imperfect Heroes podcast is a production of Little Hearts Academy, USA.
DJ Stutz 0:09
You're listening to Imperfect Heroes - Insights Into Parenting, the perfect podcast for imperfect parents looking to find joy in their experience of raising children in an imperfect world. And I'm your host, DJ Stutz.
Hey, everyone, thank you for choosing to spend the next few minutes here with us at Imperfect Heroes, I'm so excited to have you here. And to have my guest here, Christine and I have been able to know each other in different realms and different parts of podcasting, and entrepreneurship and coaching. She's an amazing coach. But before we get started, I just wanted to remind you that you have a great opportunity for a free workshop. And if you join the Parent Perspectives, on my website, it's a free workshop every month, the fourth Thursday of every month, it's at 1pm Mountain Time. And we talk about all kinds of things, parenting. And so we usually will take the theme for the month for the podcast, and we do a deep dive into that. But you have a chance to ask questions and share stories and connect with other parents. It's an amazing thing. And so if you just go to the website, www.LittleHeartsAcademyUSA.com You're gonna see parent perspectives, you just click on that no cost to you. And it's a chance to get actually some free coaching, some group session work. And it's just a fun, fun thing. So go ahead, go there. And the link is in the show notes, as always.
So let's go ahead and get started though. This month, we are talking about perseverance, and how to teach our children to persevere. But also parenting is an exercise in perseverance. For us. They wear us down. And so how do we stay strong? And then how do we teach our children to keep going to keep trying and not give up when there's a bump in the road? And so Christine Li, you are a procrastination coach, you're a doctor, you have your own coaching business and helping people through procrastination and how to build their lives and their businesses. And you are amazing. Why don't you talk to us a little bit about your background and what you bring to the table. And then let's jump right in on that procrastination thing. Okay, terrific.
Dr. Christine Li 2:52
Thank you, DJ. And thank you so much for that kind. introduction. I want to clarify, I'm a Doctor of Psychology. I'm not a medical doctor, just in case anybody's wondering. And just wanting to be clear, and represent appropriately. I am so grateful to be with DJ and her audience and thank you all for listening. And I do call myself Procrastination Coach online. DJ and I have been podcasters in tandem for many years, and have collaborated in the past on a couple of episodes. And I'm so grateful to be back. And really the reason I got into the area of procrastination is because I noted that there was a reluctance for people to really even see the nature of their procrastination and how debilitating it could really be across spheres of life. So it can be debilitating in your finances, in your relationships, in your health, in your work in how you keep your home. And I know that as soon as I started working on my own patterns with this particular issue, and I was very much a severe procrastinator and a chronic one, that once I started putting two and two together and putting the steps in place, I felt my life getting lighter. And I really just got hooked into the idea that this could be the way the rest of my career goes where I get to teach people how to create healthier, lighter, more joyful and productive lives. And that's what I've been doing so far.
DJ Stutz 4:29
And doing a great job at it. I will thank you. Thank you so much. I think though part of to me, working through your procrastination is so connected to persevering. There's so connected. So I am married to this sweet guy. And we joke around about his OCD's. We'll get home from a trip in fact just last night we got home we were visiting my other son came to My daughter's house, and we're beat, we're tired. It's getting late. And I'm worried about getting the grandkids baths because we've been watching them for my daughter. And I'm thinking we'll just get that stuff out of the car tomorrow. And nope, he couldn't No, no, no, that wasn't going to happen. It was going to happen now, or else he wasn't going to be able to sleep. It wouldn't be bugging him. I wish I had that.
Dr. Christine Li 5:27
That trade, right? Yeah.
DJ Stutz 5:29
Yes, yes, that would be probably a little better for me down the road. But so some people just it comes to them quite naturally to it's gotta get done. Or it's going to be on my mind, and I won't be able to relax. And then other people are like, Oh, I'll get that later. And then later comes, oh, yeah, we'll get that. And we push it off, push it up, push that. And it can be anything from, like you said, picking up your home, keeping your home decluttered and things put away. Or it could be put doing something that you kind of just really don't want to do, whether it's talking to somebody talking to a teacher, or managing something with your kids, or whatever. But as we set that example, our children are going to follow the example I think that we set, what do you think on that? I
Dr. Christine Li 6:19
think it's a great topic to start with, first of all, and what just came to mind was a little story and memory that I will share. Because I was visiting. This is a story from 20. plus years ago, I would say, I was visiting a friend's home and her two daughters were playing and they were not babies. They were not little little. But they were playing with each other. And they were quietly and quickly putting together what they had done and putting the items away. And I quickly said, Oh, no, you don't have to do that. And I don't even know why I thought that right. I was just thinking, This was probably just a habit of mine. Oh, everybody take it easy. But the mother told me in a very nice way. No, they they do that they know how to do that. And this is their pattern. But of course the mother had taught them into that pattern, and right. So they to this day, are knowledgeable about how to take care of themselves knowledgeable about how to keep a home. So when we say things are natural, natural has a very broad definition there because they were taught by their mother who's very orderly and aware of time and resources and things like that. So I would say these are skills that anyone can learn. I think that's the important thing to insert from, from my perspective, that I was not, I was raised actually in a tidy home, but I did not develop those skills of being tidy. And I have over the years, either learned them, taught myself them, learn them by watching other people and just develop them by necessity, over time, because I wanted to be a little bit more orderly, I didn't want all of my time dribbling away, because that felt very wasteful and stressful. So there's a natural peace, but I don't want people to think, oh, I wasn't born organized, or born sensitive to how time runs. So that's just always going to be the case, I really want everyone to believe that they have that much power over how things go in their own life, because that's the beginning of great change.
DJ Stutz 8:35
And such a great point. And thank you for bringing that up. And you know, as you were talking about that I was thinking, you know, Russell, my sweetheart, is the baby of nine. And so his mom had to be very organized to keep things scheduled and feed everybody and to keep up on all of the chores. And then me being the oldest of seven, again, my mom had, but my mom dealt with some mental health issues. And it's funny how, when she was doing well, our house was well kept. When she was struggling with her mental health issues, the house would be a mess. So for me growing up, I always associated how clean my house was with where my mental health state was. And I don't know if that's right or wrong. It's probably wrong in some ways. But with my experiences growing up, that's kind of how I associated that organization piece. I
Dr. Christine Li 9:37
think many people do and I think I don't want to misquote research but I've seen some research that some of the physicists and more intelligent people also have very cluttered spaces workspaces, home spaces, that they know that keeping everything tidy is not necessarily the most important way to use your time. So you can write use that argument in any way, right? I think the right, or the where I've come to settle on this issue is that when you feel well, with the way things are, that's alignment, that's where your your brain is clear. Many people can tolerate it. But even the word tolerate indicates something right. But many people can tolerate a bit of things. Being out of order, some people literally can't. So you just have to know yourself. But I think that is a kinder way of evaluating where you want to get yourself to, instead of thinking, Oh, my God, everybody's gonna come into my home and judged, because that's a fear based way of thinking about your own home. Right? What, what's important is that you feel comfortable in your home. Yeah, so I've been all over the place, I've been the oh my god, I can't believe I keep my house this way to us pretty reasonable. And I'm pretty comfortable. And I've been everywhere in between. So I really feel the empathy for people who struggle around keeping a tidy home, because it's, it's not the simplest thing for people, even though other people find it to be a no brainer. So if you're one of the people out there, who are struggling with this, just take the edge off it. And I would say start with a 10 minute timer and put some high vibe music on, and go to town for 10 minutes and see if you like that, and if that makes a dent. And typically, you'll be able to see a real difference in just 10 minutes. And that's what I try to coach people into to not think you have to revamp the whole living room because that might hurt your back and take up all day and still not end up making you feel really happy with your home. But a 10 minute segment, you can absolutely do well and
DJ Stutz 11:51
to be realistic and give yourself the grace that it's so much easier for me to keep my home clean. Now when it's just Ross and I and the dogs. Yeah. But when I had the kids and they were growing up, and it felt like I would just get one piece clean and move on to the next room. And when I came back that room I just cleaned was dirty again. So yeah, understanding I think the reality I saw a sign and I had to laugh. It was like, No, this is not a construction zone. children live here. Yeah. But I think to be able to verbalize sometimes that when you're using maybe a strategy that you just said, and the kids are hearing you, okay, I'm really tired. But I'm going to put the timer on for 10 minutes. And we're going to work and get things done for 10 minutes. And then we'll go off and do something else. But if you start verbalizing those strategies out loud, and the kids hear you verbalizing what you're doing, then they're going to internalize that more and more.
Dr. Christine Li 13:00
Yeah. And you don't have to necessarily teach them directly. If, as you were saying, you can demonstrate and I think because I've taught people things like how to declutter, even though it's not my strongest suit, I have heard story after story after story, as I'm sure you have to DJ of people changing their energy and their behavior, because they see you changing it for yourself. So it's not this pressure, guilt, shame, embarrassment, Tango tug of war thing. It is really like everybody gets to excel here. And we're all safe. So why are we worried about anything? Just chuck the worry first, and then set the timer and you should be good?
DJ Stutz 13:46
Exactly, exactly. I'm a big timer fan. From teaching kindergarten, and then I was directing preschools and then raising my own kids. And now grandkids, just timers are great. And even like watching two of my grandkids this week, while my daughter and her husband are out of town and saying, Okay, it's going to be bedtime, we're going to have to start getting ready, you've got a half an hour, set the timer, and they can see it. And I think that visual with kids is really helpful. And they've got even timers with the red thing. Yeah, so that they can visually see that red part getting smaller and smaller. And that's a great visual for our kiddos. I think another thing too with as we're teaching our kids to be more resilient and keep trying is being realistic about what we're asking them to do as well. And so their rooms totaled and their three you don't just say go clean your room. Yeah, but breaking it up into bite sized pieces. We're gonna pick up the yellow toys are now the blue toys, and now we're teaching them to sort and to classify. And we're bringing some science in, and we're doing those things, too.
Dr. Christine Li 15:07
Yeah, there's a real power in what you just said, the power of having a strategy. It doesn't have to be research based, it doesn't have to be brilliant, it can just get a person over the starting line. And it's so often not just with clutter, it's with life, right? paying your taxes or going grocery shopping sometimes, or getting ready for bed uses to get yourself over the starting line. And so I think if I could provide a tip here, always think what's the fastest way to get to the starting line, right? It might be again, that music, it might be oh, let me just indicate to my partner what I want done by the end of the afternoon, it could be something really small, and can put everybody on the same page, which can be fairly helpful and put your your own energy into that particular one focus. That's another tip, really just getting rid of all the distractions and all the other things that you would rather do. Just put it in one place and enjoy it. Enjoy it while you're doing it. Yeah,
DJ Stutz 16:11
for sure. Absolutely, for sure. And, you know, you were bringing up the music, too. I know, when my kids were little I had, I had the album of the soundtrack of Raiders of Lost Ark. I love it. I would put that on. And that was my cleaning music.
Dr. Christine Li 16:34
You know? And if I'm gonna use that, I'm gonna borrow that for sure. That's a great, yeah,
DJ Stutz 16:42
it was great. And then if you did the soundtrack to the whole movie, you know, I had the LP, LP, you know, but I had that, and I'd put it on and, and the kids knew even very, very young. I mean, this was even before I think Rocky was, I was pregnant with Rocky when I started using that. But the kids knew when that music was on, that was our cleanup time. And so even as they were four, and let's see two, they could start picking up little things here and there, and they would start doing it with me. And that's a strategy I used in my kindergarten class, as well as when I was directing the preschools for the school district. And we would put on a clean up song. And that's a very common strategy to use. And there's some great ones that are out there. One of my favorites was, Oh, my goodness, look at this mess. I'm the one who made it, I do confess, you know, and so it runs, it's almost four minutes long. And that's about for that age group. That's about how long there are going to have the mental acuity to stay focused. Yes.
Dr. Christine Li 17:52
And I think it's, again, not just about the clutter, it's teaching ourselves that there's a rise in a fall, there's a cycle of things to bring things to completion. And I think no matter what age you are, you enjoy the completion feeling. And if you leave your stuff all over the place, you're never going to have that for yourself. So you're kind of depriving yourself accidentally of this extra piece of satisfaction. And this feeling of, oh, I'm an achiever and all the other things that you might associate with finishing a loop. And I just want to put that in there, too.
DJ Stutz 18:28
I love that. I really do love that. And so now let's move on maybe to a lot of times they want to start something kids will want to start something. And either they decide it gets too hard, or I'm not good at this, or whatever, and they'll want to quit. So where's the balance then between? Let's push it through, like, let's agree, we'll finish the season, or we're going to finish this Lego project or whatever it is. Let's keep pushing with it. Where's the point of us either being too pushy, because then they don't learn anything then either or being encouraging.
Dr. Christine Li 19:12
I think that's such a subtle question. I think it really depends on the moment. But again, a habit can be created with repetition, repetition is so important. And maybe just the goal is Completion. So maybe you're not fully doing the whole room. But you're saying you know what I look I see that you're looking a little tired there. Let's just finish this part. But really celebrate the completion and then return when the kids energy is back up, because it's not quite done. So that there like you said, there isn't No there isn't pressure. There isn't a push or a force thing. And I think so many people resort to I'm in the middle of dog train And even with my, my younger puppy, so I'm really thinking about this right? And that the instinct is to pull on the dog. But oftentimes it doesn't teach them anything but to get really stressed out. And so then both the owner and the dog are stressed out, I think the same with children and parents, or children and adults that you don't want any forcing to be happening. So it's okay to let it be a pause moment, right? Okay, let's go get a snack or let's go outside for a minute and then return. But that the goal really is of completion of the project, because it's not gonna it's right. Most things are not going to be damaging or harmful to the kid and the kid is expressing their natural pushback. Right? So to also, this is something I've learned from being a psychologist is really having it not be push pull between people, but it's looking inside the kid, what part of the kid wants this done for themselves, right? They don't want to lose the pieces of the Lego set, or of the doll house or whatever there else is like, right, the Ninja Turtles, that's all for a long time ago, whatever kids are playing with these days, they don't want the missing piece that would not be so fun, or they know the value of what they care about. So to kind of lean on that a little bit again, without the guilt without guilt tripping, but saying like, yeah, like, Wouldn't it be great if the next time you open this, all the pieces were ready and set and ready for you to go? Right,
DJ Stutz 21:39
right. So just this morning, so their school starts really late here. It's like 920 is when their elementary school starts. And so we're getting close to time for the kids to leave. And Ingrid, my granddaughter was watching bluey. She'd finished her breakfast and all of this, right? And so I said, Okay, now it's time, we're going to go up, brush our teeth and do our hair. And so we put blue on pause, and she's up, but I want to watch him like, we can hurry up and do your hair. And you'll have five minutes to watch Louis, or you can take your time. And then we won't have time for it to watch bluey. The choice is yours. I really don't care. And so then I went to help her brother and I came back and she's rolling around on the floor and you know, doing her thing. I'm like, oh, okay, you're choosing not to watch bluey. That's fine with me. Then you better get up and do your hair. And so now instead of five minutes, you can have two minutes. I'll take two minutes. All right, up, she went. And so sometimes it's that reminder. But I think too, making a choice somewhere in there for them to make and you have to be okay with whichever one they pick.
Dr. Christine Li 22:54
Yep, you're not attached. Right. And they Yeah, yeah, literally don't care. Right. And it's just to have them have some investment, some healthy investment in their own choices. Yeah, absolutely. And I hear Bloom is very good.
DJ Stutz 23:12
So far, I haven't seen anything that I and you know, and I'm really protective of what my kids see. But so far, it's been good. So I think there's that piece too. And then I think another thing that you brought up that I think is so important is being able to take a break, and then come back to it. And it doesn't have to even be a chore, it could be a Lego project. Or it could be out working on playing baseball and playing catch or whatever. And then just saying, oh, you know what, let's take a break, we're gonna go do this, but we'll come back, or having a place where you can save that Lego project. They don't have to put everything exactly away. But there's a place or a tray or something where it's there, it's safe, and they can come back to it. Because some of those projects do take some time, or puzzles, like, you know, puzzles for the kids or different things. It's okay to take that break, and then come back to it. That's just as good to.
Dr. Christine Li 24:14
Yeah. And I love that the theme that we're agreeing on is really the no pressure position. You know, because cleaning up toys and getting places on time and catching your favorite show. It can feel really pressured. And that's learned. I really think we come into this universe. I know you know this because you love working with children being free and then we layer on all of this stress and pressure. And then we wonder why we can't finish things. It's because our bodies and brains are just calling it quits. We don't want to deal with anything anymore. And we certainly don't want our children looking at us as models of stress and inactivity. Right and despair or disappointment, we want to be role models for possibility and an energy and growth and calm. And those are loving gifts that we can give to our children.
DJ Stutz 25:13
I agree so much. And I think too, I think it's good for us to have a talent or hobby or something that we're really interested in and interested in doing. And they see us coming and going back to it and spending time and even best case scenario, including them in the process. And so showing them you know, one of the things that I do is I do a lot of crochet and knitting. And so I have a goal of making these huge blankets for every one of my grandkids. I have 12 of them. And so I'm little over halfway through, but it was so funny. The other day, I was at my son's house in California, he has two kids. And then I had Rocky's two kids, and Sylvan, which is Rockies boy was saying how Naina I'm I'm Naina. But how Naina is the best at string. I'm like, straight what string and it goes. And then Ingrid comes in? She goes, Yeah, you do. yarning it is. Funny,
Dr. Christine Li 26:24
oh my gosh, that's so cute. That's great. I love it. Perfect language. I love it.
DJ Stutz 26:29
They see the eye isn't that fun language. And it's fun to hear how they pick that up. But they see that I keep going back to it. For me, this is just my life. I can't just sit and watch TV anymore. So I'm either editing a podcast while the TV's on and my husband sitting next to me or I'm yawning. And I'm always kind of doing stuff. But the kids have noticed that. And that those are things that are important to me, and I keep working on it. And so again, it's that modeling of me going back to it, and I don't have to say anything about it. And they'll come and ask questions or whatever. But they'll pick up on it if they see it. Yeah. Yeah,
Dr. Christine Li 27:12
I love it. They're watching everything. And they're absorbing everything. And they're putting names to everything. Yeah, yeah.
DJ Stutz 27:18
Yeah. I love that language of kids. It's just so fun the way they Yeah, I'm good with string. You're just really good with string, what?
Kids are great. Kids are great. So I think I guess the bottom line is, is what we've been talking about. setting the right example, using the right skill set as far as not pushing, demanding, but encouraging, giving choices. But then it's like, it wasn't a choice of be on time for school or not. It was a choice of how much time do you want to watch? Before we go? Right.
Dr. Christine Li 28:01
Right, we can use our intelligence to frame the options.
DJ Stutz 28:06
Yeah, we can still still guide
Dr. Christine Li 28:09
them in a particular direction. It's okay. Right, right. And just as long as we're not stomping on the child's autonomy, we really have great motivations, great intentions and loving intentions. And as long as you're in alignment with that, it can only go well, I That's my opinion, right? And when we have love for each other, we want everyone, everybody to succeed, right? We don't have to feel frustrated, because we're in the role of modeling and teaching and guiding, right? It can be this beautiful, bidirectional mutual Joy stringing, finding out about each other and learning about the world together, learning about kids, and learning about energy together and how to make it even more fun. And it is so fun.
DJ Stutz 29:00
Absolutely. And just finding joy in parenting. Right? And looking at the situation with eager, curious, inspired eyes. Yeah, yeah. And so that's really cool. Well, Christine, thank you so much. And so you have something coming up? And what can our people do to keep in touch with you to learn more about you?
Dr. Christine Li 29:26
Thank you so much. And I, before I get into that, I want to say thank you for being the hero that you are. It's been a while since we've actually connected and I'm just reminded of the beautiful work that you do and your beautiful energy. So thank you for what you do. Yeah, and the passion that you put out into the world and to all the children. So I do have a live event coming up. It's called Re-Energize Your Home. It is a decluttering challenge. Over the course of five plus days. I've run it four times before it's kind of like a party if you can imagine, because like D today, and I like to do, we like to keep things fun and doable. And so I invite anyone and anybody who's listening and has some clutter to take care of, even if it's a small, little bit in the corner, I welcome you to join, you'll learn a lot about habits and regulating your energy and boosting your energy to do things that you don't quite want to do. And I've chosen the topic of clutter, because it was such a bugaboo topic for many of the clients that I work with. So actually, my clients requested something like this, I kind of reluctantly built this, but it ended up being this really fun vehicle to teach people about their power and their energy and the fact that they can get through everything. So I invite everyone to join up, I'm gonna offer a free download called cut the clutter that I created a while ago in conjunction with a professional organizer. So it's really high quality, this free download, and you can get that and the invitation to the free program. If you go to procrastinationcoach.com/dj. Again, it's procrastinationcoach.com/dj. And I want to thank DJ again for allowing me to mention that and to invite her people to work with me, too. Yeah.
DJ Stutz 31:23
And I think too, when you've got that decluttering in your surroundings, for at least for me, and I know everyone's different. But when my surroundings are not cluttered, my mind settles down easier and better able to focus. I'm not as short tempered. And I think kids get used to not having to live in chaos. And that makes their lives simpler, too. So I really encourage anyone if you're interested at all, yeah, go ahead and check this out. And, again, we'll have a link in the show notes. So go there. And then if you're part of our newsletter, I'm going to put that link in our newsletter as well. So there's a couple of ways that you can get it from me or just go directly to Christina. Christina, thank you so much. You just do such awesome work. And before we go, I always ask my guests the same question. Because we know there are no perfect parents. And that's why we call it imperfect heroes. But there are parents who are more successful than others. That seems How would you describe a successful parent?
Dr. Christine Li 32:31
It's a lovely and difficult question, I would say in a way because there's so many ways to be a parent. We're mentioning our dogs even and, and of course, our amazing children and the children in our world. And I would say for me, it's a little bit about not losing sight of who you are as a person while you're connecting with the child. So to make sure that there's in some way healthy boundaries, and separation as much as there is connection so that you can retain that part of you that can be reflective, that can step back can observe yourself operating with the child. And I think that's a little bit protective of you and the child, right? It protects everyone from everything, getting really heated or out of control or chaotic or messy and just have everybody be reasonable is really a nice way to to go about the day. I think no matter what age you are, right, like with the stress that's around in the world, that it's nice to just say, You know what I am okay, I'm okay, we're gonna be okay. And if we can do that, I think we're winning as parents.
DJ Stutz 33:42
I love that it reminded me of we just had Mother's Day and there was this Mother's Day commercial that said before she was your mother, and it shows all of these hippie moms and moms who are doing you know, young things and yeah, out being cool. And in college and high school. And yeah, and I think yeah, you know, hold on to that. And I am a kind person. Darnit you're screaming at your kids, right?
Dr. Christine Li 34:13
Yeah, yeah. A little less than the screaming. Yeah,
DJ Stutz 34:16
yes. Yeah. Just like keep your isn't who I am.
Dr. Christine Li 34:20
Yeah, keep your grounded parts. And they're there. You haven't lost them. And you're doing an amazing job. So keep going.
DJ Stutz 34:28
I love it. Christine, you are amazing. And I love what you do. And so everybody, let's keep going. Let's not procrastinate. Let's persevere. And above all, until next week, let's find joy in parenting. See you guys. Bye!
Transcribed by https://otter.ai