Exploring the trends & technologies shaping the convergence of private and public transportation

Flowbird’s new podcast series - ‘Let’s Talk About Transport’ – engages with industry thought leaders on the big issues driving convergence between public and private transport modes.

In our first podcast, Aurelien Cottet, a Director of the *MaaS Alliance, talks about the need to think beyond silos to fulfil the full potential of Mobility as a Service.

He discusses….

·         The acceleration of digitalisation as a result of the pandemic and the role of new generation ticketing in MaaS

·         How MaaS isn’t so much a technical challenge…more a question of governance and trust

·         The need for connectivity between multiple MaaS models - Rural MaaS, Urban MaaS and Capital MaaS

·         How private cars need to be part of any MaaS solution

·         The need to educate and incentivise consumer behaviour, without excluding any part of society

·         Horizon scanning – where will MaaS be in five years and what will the business model look like?

·         Future innovations, including a Micro-MaaS concept

Says Paul Rogers, Flowbird’s Director of Sales & Marketing: “This is an incredibly exciting time to be involved in the global transportation sector. Through this podcast series, we aim to promote discussion with thought leaders in our industry about the trends and influences that will shape the future for authorities, operators and consumers.”

Listen in and look out for the next episode.

Find out more about Flowbird at flowbird.group/transport

* The MaaS Alliance is a public-private partnership creating the foundations for a common approach to MaaS, unlocking the economies of scale needed for successful implementation and take-up of MaaS in Europe and beyond. The main goal is to facilitate a single, open market and full deployment of MaaS services.

Flowbird solutions are used in 4,350 cities to make travel easier, safer and faster.

Our complete infrastructure for transport ticketing and payments connects smart ticketing devices to our CloudFare back office, which offers modules for Estate Management, Account Based Ticketing, Fares & Topology and Open Payments. We provide end-to-end payment services, which support transport and mobility operations.

A leading paystation provider, Flowbird continues to develop systems that support cities’ social, environmental and economic goals. Our parking and MaaS apps, Park & Charge solution, and parking management platform, are driving the future of sustainable mobility.

www.flowbird.group

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:03

Thanks for tuning in to the flow by transport intelligence podcast, where industry leaders talk about the trends, technologies and influences shaping the convergence of public and private transport. A special guest today is[inaudible] who is director of the mass Alliance. Welcome already on perhaps we can start with how you became involved the mass Alliance and what the organization seeks to achieve. Yes.

Speaker 2: 0:31

So hello is, uh, my name is, uh, Oregon cadets. Um, I'm the master worldwide coordinator, um, for Transdev Transdev is one of the biggest public transport operator on the welds on I'm in charge to, um, uh, coordinate and manage all the mobility as a service project we may have around the world. So from Australia, uh, Asia, middle East Europe, for sure, uh, North on South America, uh, mass Alliance, um, is an a, is an association, uh, from people from a pubic sector, uh, pubic operator, but also private operators on private sectors. It's an association, but gathered everyone, uh, to understand what is mass on, what could be mass to make sure that everyone has the same chance and everyone can work together.

Speaker 1: 1:25

Why do you think that Mars is such a progressive model for transportation, um, around the world? And typically, what would you expect to see within a Moz scheme?

Speaker 2: 1:37

So, mobility as a service is a concept, but it's not necessarily new. We were starting to talk about mass, uh, since, uh, 2015, 2014. Uh, so as a CLI, uh, six, seven years ago, um, the idea was you should think about mobility. We have a lot of silos. You have the silos of public transport, and even within the previous transport, you can say you have the bus as on one side, the trauma on the another side of a train, um, you can have boats also depends where you are in the world. Uh, after that you have a silo on the taxi that got a little bit, uh, checked up, um, these Uber on Lyft that the TNC and you have the new light share mobility with, uh, East quarter e-bike, uh, mopeds, et cetera, et cetera. So if you think that we had such a many silos and mobility, so many choice, I want them to never, uh, it makes sense to have everything under the same channel. So Moby to the service concept is how you aggregate all of the mobility to become private, uh, that are operating within one territory. So the end user can plan a trip from a to, and being able to get some multiple shortages of mobilities on cookie. So intermodal, that means, uh, I take my, my, um, my car and I go park somewhere on Ben, take the train to go to the center of the city. And so why it's that progressive it's because we have to think beyond each silos, that's meaning we'll break down all those silos. We put an umbrella on it. We have to rethink the organization, because if you think about it, if, if each mobility services are working on operating on, uh, in their side, uh, thinking about their own clients, but they're the clients of the scooter could be also the clients of Uber on QDR. So the clients of priveq transport. So these clients should be able to have a better understanding what are the options in one places, and for the tribute transport authorities, having such information could also help them to really imagine how the mobility should be in their territories. So that, that's why it's very progressive. And that's why it's kind of new in term of, I mean, new, not because it has been there for six years or more, but because it's new in the mindset of people that could be consuming everything in one application, instead of having to download a hundred of applications

Speaker 3: 4:26

About mobility as a service, uh, in the context of the pandemic, do you think that, um, the, the COVID situation has increased interest in mobility as a service? And why might that be?

Speaker 2: 4:43

Yes. In fact, what is very interesting is, um, with, upon the pandemic, um, everybody agrees, uh, that the public transport is the backbone of the mass with the pandemic. Not that many people were back in the public transport. So a lot of people questioned the survival of the concept of the mass, but at the same time, mass is a digitalization of all the mobility services offered in a territory is preclinical privates. So all was information gathered in one place is give opportunity to VMs operator to provide more information in term of safety and security. So that's one thing. The second thing is would you to create a mass to deploy a mass? You need a strong and digitalized public transport operator, meaning you need to have a good traveler information for the end user meaning knowing when, uh, the burst of a train will arrive, or if something happened giving an, uh, an estimation of delay, but, but, uh, really estimation that could really occur. And that's something know, uh, we've a finger in the wind and say, Oh, it's mayor rent today. Uh, so we've all digitalization. We are unable to give a better data information for the end user 30 continue right now is either a paper or a smart count. The fact that a new generation of ticketing that is being digitalized, uh, for QR codes, um, but has been deployed for pass two for years, uh, in certain city will help them us because without this digitalization of a ticketing, you can't have a mass artists. You can't have a digital is a sharing of aggregating all those mobility services in one place, the pandemic helping speed it up, viz a viz deployment of digitalization. The ticketing was a nice to have in a lot of places. We've a pandemic where end user on even the driver who didn't want to have a direct contact with the traveler. Uh, the only answer to that was how would you digitalize the ticketing? You can have, um, text message ticketing. It's great, but it's very difficult to put in place in term of the fact that it's built on your, uh, mobile operator, uh, bill. So you need your mobile operator agreeing to, um, to do these kinds of services. You could use your credit card as a contact list, open payment system, but that's more expensive and just a digitalization of a ticketing. So suddenly, um, the project of digitalization of a ticket team that we have planned for next two, three, four years in many medium cities came as, uh, an emergency on, um, must have thanks to that. All those medium CTS that were on ready to deploy a mass are ready now to diplomas because they put in place with digitalization system needed for that one of them,

Speaker 3: 8:00

The, the main things for that will contribute to the success of a mass project will be consumer confidence that they're happy to use it. And I suppose that, that makes you think about things like account-based ticketing. Uh, do you see ABT as a fundamental part of a successful, uh, mad scheme?

Speaker 2: 8:25

The thing with ABT is, um, is mainly linked with a credit card, a credit card linked to a bank account or credit card that could be refilled like as a wallet. Um, it's very difficult to link, uh, an ABT on a mass application because it's not the same system. Uh, ABT is linked to the, the fare on ticketing scheme, uh, other public transport operator, uh, that have put in place such a, um, a system. So it's, it's very great for the end user who are occasional on want to use their credit card to tap in, tap out like in London. And, um, uh, if the fare system has a capping system, the ABT is perfect for that because you are built at the end of the day, the number of trips you've done, uh, on if you reach the maximum, it doesn't matter. Your credit card is till your token to open the Gates, but you are not, uh, you are not, um, uh, you don't are charged, uh, at the end of the day because you're, you're new, just accumulated enough to pay the maximum amount. And then you can continue to travel during the day with a PMO. Uh, this is definitely great for credit cards. Um, the, the link between an EBT on a mass application is not done yet. Uh, hopefully it will be done, uh, but it's a little bit more complicated.

Speaker 3: 9:59

What about operators? Can you see some benefits for operators or is there an element of you have to build some trust up in the system?

Speaker 2: 10:08

Yes. In fact, we, we know now, but, um, uh, to deploy a mass is not a technical issues. I mean, you have some ticking, technical issues between interfaces between, um, the, uh, mobility as a service provider. You want to integrate in it that may don't have the right API and giving access to the right data for them on their system, uh, to, uh, to work on a mass, but that's, that's can be fixed. The major problem right now is I'm living in, I was talking about silos. Uh, when you break down silos, you are getting people who are not working together on most of the time, when you talk about silos, people are competing between silos. So the, the most difficult part right now for, um, the big transport, uh, on the private transport. So pre beacon, private operators is to trust each other, to create a system that could be beneficial for everyone. Why it's, because if you create a system where everyone can share all the data that is needed to optimize, uh, their respective operation taking to be able to offer a better offer at the end of the day, to the end user, what is a real problem now is people who do have to use their car on. They don't see any alternative to their own private car. If the offers between public and private operators is synchronized at a point where we can create an alternative of the private car, not every time, but most of the time, that would be a first step for people to say, okay, today, I'm not going to use my private car. I'm going to use the mass. So for that, you need trust between parties because in a way it's like you're putting all the competitors in one platform and they need to trust the algorithm to be the best for everyone.

Speaker 3: 12:14

And if we think about, um, the ownership of a mad scheme, who would you think, uh, should be responsible for setting the rules and making sure that everything works fairly for everybody? Because I guess that's part of a trust issue as well, maybe from an operator point of view.

Speaker 2: 12:33

Yes. So I think everyone agrees on the fact that, um, the mobility as a service, um, because it's the mobility of people, uh, in a region, in a territory, we need a trusted third party, um, to organize on, to create the governance, uh, obvious mob details, a service, uh, even if it's operated by a pubic private operators, it's the PTA, but public transport authority, the ones who are, um, on a public sector, elected by the citizen who are supposed to be there for the good of everyone. So to, to put in place the right mobility policy with, uh, VIG of inclusion. So for everyone rich, poor, uh, healthy and healthy, uh, for everyone in their daily life, uh, you have a luggage, you don't, uh, you have a small children, um, for women who are pregnant, uh, for people who are normally healthy on had an accident and suddenly, uh, are on wheelchair. And so we need to think about everyone on, on the only people that can do that are people who are driven by, uh, benefits. So it's important that the mass should be fought on Gavin. Five is authority. Then the mass could be a lead on organized, uh, organized, operated by a public transport operator. It could be a sole led by a public authority, a company that is owned by the city. For instance, it could be also a private operator, uh, or it could be, um, yeah, it could be many things. The governance has to be local on national local for the fact that the mobility is very local. Uh, you can find the same mobility providers from city to city, but after that, each match each mobility as a service has the same mindset in term of, uh, data privacy for the end user. Um, what should be done in term of, um, what are the data needed, uh, to improve the, of mobility of people on goods within one territories? So the charter choice could be local or national. The prime is the same, I suppose,

Speaker 3: 15:00

When we think about mobility as a service, there's a temptation to think about smart cities as well. Um, do you think that maths is just as applicable to say a regional structure, uh, as opposed to just a large city

Speaker 2: 15:17

Math is like, um, the mobile operator, we, we have, um, have our cell phones. Um, we need to room being able to room from one region to another one was something but one country to another one. So it's very important also, but, um, someone who, when you have, when we'll be in a position where you will have mass everywhere, uh, it will be very important that the interconnection between masses will be done, uh, in a seamlessly. Uh, so it's going to be good to have some local ones, some regional, one national one on international ones. Uh, so I don't know if it's really answering exactly the question, but what I can, uh, can tell you is, uh, it depends on sort of a region because there are some regional where you have a big city and suddenly, um, the number of people, uh, in the distant suburbs, uh, are, are not that many. Uh, so it's, it's going to be very important to understand the local context. Um, and they are also the concept of rural mass, their shoes, uh, your, uh, mass on, on, after that you have a capital mass, uh, uh, when I say capital masses, when you have a capital with many different players for each mobility service provider, what I mean by this is when you have medium cities. Most of the time you have one, one company for e-bikes one company for Cassia, one company for the East corridor, uh, on one PTO when public transport operator, when you are in the capital, most of the time you have to, you have one, two, three, four different bike companies, one, two, three, four East quarters company on there. The number of options for mass, uh, are multiple. So that's where you're going to have, uh, on new w you will need a good governance to make sure that everything is set properly, uh, on the data would share between all of us nurses so they can all offer the best for their own clients.

Speaker 3: 17:27

I suppose. The other element that may be, we need to think about is, is private transport, private cars and parking, because we know that obviously there are concerns at the moment about congestion pollution, but I suppose with, um, Evie charging, Oh, sorry, with V cars coming along, uh, maybe attitudes will change a bit towards private cars. And, um, and I suppose the question then is how do we balance private car ownership against, against a MAs opportunity?

Speaker 2: 18:04

So I'm going to talk about my personal life, because the first perfect example of someone who travel a lot, I mean, previously, previously, COVID, I used to travel between 60 to 70% of my time, the road on, um, uh, on most of the time, I always try to find the fastest way to go to my meetings when I arrive at a train station or at the airport. And most of the time, it's not the taxi in the many cities that can sell them, uh, the best way to go from one place to another one, uh, is go from the airport, Cisco with straight to get a train, um, uh, on, on go to my meetings there, um, for my personal life where I live, I live nearby Versailles. So not too far from Paris, uh, when I want to go to Paris, most of the time I take my car. When I drive to the nearest Metro station, I park there on when I take the public transport. So I'm the perfect example of someone who's going to do intermodal with my own private car at the beginning using a parking. So I think, uh, Avi, eh, EVs car will be better for the environment, but it doesn't mean that we need to have everyone with an AAV because congestion is there. Um, there's two burden, uh, in term of mobility, you have the pollution, but you have also the number of minutes on hours you can spend in your car because of the traffic jam. So I think there are two, two sides, but it's very important to, to still keep in mind, I'm talking about health is very important, but you have also mental health. That is when you spend too much time in the traffic jam. So math should be also an answer for that, because most of the reflects of people with their private car, they use Google maps or ways, ways. Doesn't give you any options to say, Oh, you know what, let's park there on, take the train. It's going to be faster. And it's going to be more comfortable. It's not a reflex. So we really need to educate people. And for that, my own feeling is as most of the mobility in cities are done by computers. So people who are going from home to work, we need to include the employees and employers, because if you, if the employers don't, um, send the right message to their employees on how they could, you know, uh, be more mobile, uh, in a different way than just using the private car, uh, on their alternative, that could be more beneficial for everyone. Uh, even the, the employee, uh, they won't do it because the human nature is to, uh, when you have a routine it's very difficult to break, even if it is to break it for better thing, uh, it's a routine. So I think it's going to come with time. It's going to come, thanks to the regulation is going to come also because the governments local and national will also help for that. And, you know, start to think about what kind of rewards we can put in place to incentive people to use mass. I want to come back at. So you talk about, um, smart city for me, Nass is definitely what I would call the, the mobility commodity in the smart city. Uh, one of the commodity would be mobility, mobility of people and mobility of goods. Mass is definitely this, uh, component within the smart city.

Speaker 3: 21:47

Thinking about the future. How long will it be, do you think before we all just accept Mars as a normal way of working and living our lives.

Speaker 2: 21:57

I think it's going to take some time, um, because right now we are still on test owner. Um, we need to build this trust between actors, uh, in the mobility. So between the private and the public, we need to have a very strong regulation to know what are the rules to play with. And, um, this has been discussed right now, uh, at, at least for the EU and European union. Uh, so hopefully we will have a framework to work with and being able to start to build a trust among on thanks to this framework. So that's one thing. The second thing is, uh, even if the acceleration of a digitalization has been done, uh, mass is not free. So we need also to start to think about, okay, what is the cost who is paying on what could be the business model, uh, because is it going to be the pubic transport, uh, authority will, uh, expand the public transport to the mass for the benefit of everyone on then the mass will be subsidized, uh, is going to be B2C. Like many people were afforded at the beginning, uh, where people would use, um, uh, the, the mobility on the, the mass operator will get a percentage. Each time someone would use the mass, uh, on the consume, uh, mobility, uh, to any mobility service provider are, for me, it could be. So I was talking about employee employer. Um, I, I'm pretty sure that in the next five, 10 years employ employers will spend more money to give, uh, to the employee to, um, ease their mobility. So in addition to a salary, we'll have a budget mobility or mobility budgets, sorry. And, um, uh, I, the more of a amount will be substantial. The more it's going to be used in mass. And that's how mass will also, uh, uh, take off thanks to the employers on a, um, and I'm pretty sure that that's where, um, when the vis will, will happen when the employer will be part of it with the right regulation behind, at the same time you were talking about EVs. Um, what is very interesting about that is if we want to refill our tank of, uh, our car in a gas station, that's mean we can, you know, plug the car anywhere we need to rethink about that. And that's where you have a lot of think tank who are thinking, okay, how are we going to link real estate to mass? How we can give access to a private parking owned by, uh, apartments owners or Hafiz owners to an outsider. So this person can park on PR on a recharge, his or her car, and at the same time, why not? Because it's next to a transition, take the train on, go to a city. So I think I won the money. The mass could be agreed of different can of mobility, hubs, mobility, herbs, like a train station or a above mobility with many bus stops, but also, um, micro mobility abs where you have only two or three places to park your car, or you bike, uh, places where you could come with your own bike and park it safely, because the problem with your own bike is how you, you make sure that issue, you ride your bike from your home to the train station, uh, on take a train to, um, to a center of a city. And you come back, you want to make sure that your bike is still there. Um, there, there are some countries in certainty, uh, living a bike like this, uh, could be a problem. So it's, um, so it's going to be very interesting to see everything evolving around that. And, uh, so for me, yes, I think it will take between five to 10 years before. In some cities, it will be natural for us to, uh, be mobile on consumer mobility, uh, thanks to our, uh, our smartphones.

Speaker 1: 26:22

Oh, really?[inaudible] thank you so much for your time and your insight.

Speaker 2: 26:27

Thank you very much for inviting me on, um, if you're a listener, do you have questions? Yeah.

Speaker 1: 26:36

Don't forget to tune into the next flow bird podcast for industry insights into the future of public transport. Thanks for listening.