From Senegal to Seattle: One AFSer's Journey in the Pacific Northwest

March is host family appreciation month at AFS-USA - a huge shoutout to all AFS host families! This month, we're excited to share an interview featuring a host mother-daughter pair from Washington: Jutta and Diarra.

Diarra from Senegal is having a truly culture-rich year in Seattle with the Mackensen-von Stieglitz family, who moved from Germany to the U.S. about 20 years ago. Alongside trying out new activities like ice skating, bowling, and indulging in breakfast burritos, Diarra is learning about German culture and some words of the language.

In this episode we hear about Diarra’s year so far in the U.S., and how she has grown. We also hear Jutta share insights into her family’s rich cultural history and the reasons behind their decision to host a student this year.

The story of Diarra and Jutta is just one among the hundreds of AFS families across the U.S. this year. A heartfelt thank you to all AFS host families, both past and present. Interested in becoming a future AFS host family? Check out afsusa.org/host for more information.

Guests:
Diarra
Jutta von Stieglitz

Study Abroad with AFS-USA: www.afsusa.org/study-abroad
Volunteer with AFS-USA: www.afsusa.org/volunteer
Host with AFS-USA: www.afsusa.org/host
Educator Resources: www.afsusa.org/educators
Contact us: podcast@afsusa.org

Chapters

• 3:21 Senegal
• 5:07 Diarra and Jutta Interview
• 19:33 Education in Senegal

Transcript

Kate M.
Hello and welcome to The AFS Exchange. I'm your host, Kate Mulvihill. On this show, we delve into unique perspectives from members of our AFS family, providing insights that only international exchange experiences can offer.
In every episode, we open the door wide to welcome the voices of those whose lives have been profoundly impacted by AFS. This is a place to have conversations, or exchanges, with AFS host families, students, volunteers, and educators.

Kate M.
So for Season 4, we’re going to change things up a little. As you just heard, I tweaked the intro for the first time in 3 seasons, so that’s a start.
We will also be adding a specific culture segment to the top of the show. I will continue to provide some cultural context throughout the episodes, but we are going to try starting with deep dives before we get into the interviews. But we’ll see.
I also want to incorporate more of your feedback into the show. Do you know someone whose life has been impacted by AFS and think that they would be a good guest? Or someone with a unique experience abroad, like last season when I spoke with Juliette and Deb who were in Cyprus during the coup d’état in 1974? Or maybe you have a specific topic you’d like us to cover, or a part of the world you would like to hear more about. Any thoughts, suggestions, or topic recommendations… send it over to podcast@afsusa.org.

[Music]

Kate M.
March is… Host Family Appreciation Month at AFS-USA. AFS host families come in many shapes and sizes. Single parent, a mom and a dad with children at home, a same sex couple, empty nesters, individuals without children, just to name a few. In this episode, I will be speaking with a host mother and host daughter pair, living in Seattle.
Diarra, an AFS student from Senegal, has been hosted by the Mackensen-von Stieglitz family since August. Joining us for the interview is her host mother, Jutta von Stieglitz. Jutta and her husband came to the U.S. about 20 years ago from Germany. Jutta's father-in-law was actually among the first AFS participants from Germany to come to the U.S. back in 1953!

In this episode we will hear about Diarra’s year so far in Seattle, and what it is like being hosted by a German family living in the U.S. Here’s a hint… it’s like being hosted by a U.S. family, but with another layer of language and culture added in. Jutta and her husband, having lived outside their home country, bring a unique perspective to their conversations with Diarra, helping her process her experiences in a way only those who've undergone similar journeys can.

We will hear about Diarra’s school experience, as well as activities that she had never tried in Senegal. Such as… being on the school bowling team, going ice skating, and taking a plunge into the Pacific Ocean on Thanksgiving Day. 
I hope you’ll enjoy this episode where we hear from one of the hundreds and hundreds of AFS host families across the country. And thank you, AFS host families. We couldn’t do it without you. No, really. To learn more about being a host family with AFS-USA, head to afsusa.org/host.

[Music]

Kate M.
So Senegal is a country in West Africa. Its capital, Dakar, is right on the Atlantic Ocean, and that’s where our guest Diarra is from. About 70% of the Senegalese population, however, lives in rural areas. Senegal is about the size of South Dakota, and is a majority Muslim country, with about 97% of its inhabitants practicing Islam.

In this conversation with Diarra and Jutta, they mention the Wolof Language. Wolof is spoken by about 80% of the population, and is the common language for most communication in the country. The official language, however, is French. Senegal has a long history of colonization, and the French had a foot in the country and held different forms of power from the 1600s until Senegal’s independence in 1960. Still, all government work and formal education is done in French.

Senegal is among the countries participating in the YES Program. In case you haven’t heard us mention it before on this show…  the YES Program is the U.S. Department of State’s Kennedy-Lugar Youth Exchange and Study Program. This program brings high school students, like Diarra, to the U.S. for an academic year to advance the U.S. foreign policy goals of promoting civil society, youth leadership development, and lasting ties between Americans and the people of participating countries.
There is also YES Abroad, which is the outbound version, more or less, of the YES Program. Jutta’s son is actually a participant on YES Abroad in Turkey right now, which is part of the reason why they decided to host a student this year.

Okay, that’s it for the overview. But we’ll talk more about Senegal, including its education system, later in the episode.

[Music] 

Kate M.
Okay, here are… Diarra and Jutta.

Diarra S.     
My name is Diarra. And I'm an exchange student from Senegal and I currently live in the US. In Seattle, exactly.

Jutta V.      
Because the U.S. is so big. Yeah. So my name is Jutta von Stiglitz and I live in Seattle, Washington. And yes, we're hosting Diarra. And this has been a wonderful experience.

Kate M.     
Your family has a long history with AFS? Could you share a little bit about that?

Jutta V.     
My father in law, in 1953, came to the United States from Germany and he was placed with a family in Boulder. And they came, sure, by a boat to the U.S. And it has always been part of his history. And even when I met him, already, I sort of heard that story from him having lived in the United States for a whole year and how amazing that experience was, and how close he is to his family that hosted him. And we even got to know his host brothers, because they came and visited in Germany, and so a very close relationship. I always sort of thought, oh, you know, it would be so great to host an international student.

Kate M.
So a bit more about Diarra’s host family… the Mackensen-von Stieglitz family. Jutta’s husband was born in Germany, and that’s where the two of them met. Jutta is also German but she grew up in the Netherlands, then moved to Germany. Then about 20 years ago, they moved to Seattle.
I asked Jutta if her own international experiences had an effect on her decision to welcome an exchange student into her home.

Jutta V.      
Yes, you know, sure. I mean, if you've lived in different countries, you sort of get that perspective of there is something interesting, there are challenges, there is so much to detect if you live somewhere abroad. And that sort of gives you that curiosity about other cultures, and that includes languages, you know, really learning languages so that you can feel at home in those countries or that you can relate to people in those countries. So it just has so many aspects. I don't know if it's just a curiosity, but also really that interest, desire, to get to know other cultures and countries. Yeah.

Kate M.      
Absolutely. And then Diarra, why were you interested in studying abroad in the United States?

Diarra S.     
So my sister was a YES student as well. When she came back, I saw how happy she was about it. And she was telling all her friends.  So then my dad asked me if I wanted to be an exchange student too. And I said, yes, definitely. So that's why I applied for the YES Program.

Kate M.
According to Diarra, the U.S. has a… fairly positive? Reputation in Senegal.

Diarra S.     
Oh, hmm. That's a good question. Actually, I would say that, like, most of the people in Senegal say that, like, American people are really good at business. And they're really punctual. They like to be on time also. And that there are people that are like, very honest. And like they say the things that they want to say like the manner that they want to say it. So they're very like, how do you say that word again?

Jutta V.     
Like open or blunt?

Kate M.      
Straightforward?

Diarra S.      
Yeah, exactly. That's the word. They are straightforward about things. Yeah, I will say that that's the main thing that we think about U.S. in Senegal. Okay.

Kate M.     
That's great. And Jutta, what did you think it would be like to welcome in an exchange student, and specifically an exchange student from Senegal? Did you know anything about Senegal before Diarra arrived?

Jutta V.     
Um, well, I definitely hadn’t been to Senegal, you know, I sort of, I would say, mostly geographic location. But for now, I didn't know anything about social structures, or how people live. So I wouldn't say I knew anything about that.
And and with Diarra, you know, it's sort of, it's like a little quilt that I'm getting about Senegal, and that's the beautiful thing, if you have somebody living with you for a long time, and you don't just meet them for a week or something, you get little little things that you learn about their country. And in the conversations that we have.
Yeah, it's all these little details that come over time that weave this little quilt for me about Senegal, also, you know, it is sort of the family structure, how are family structured in Senegal? Sure, you know, how do they live in the big city of Dakar? But you know, also, how do they live in the countryside? And Diarra tells me that she hasn't even been that much to the countryside. So, she's a real city girl. So, that's an interesting part too. I mean we sort of travel around, even if we don't have family somewhere, we travel somewhere and look at it and explore it. But that's not such a common thing. In Senegal, you visit family. Right? And that's how you get to know an area. But you don't just travel to travel.

Diarra S.
No, no.

Jutta V.     
And then, you know, we talk a lot about politics. I mean, Diarra follows politics currently in Senegal, and is also so interesting. Yeah. Whereas before, it was more sort of stable. And now there is more unrest. And so we talk a lot about that and compare it to situations here also, right. So yeah, for me, just this weaving this quilt, or, tissue about a different country that I haven't been to, is, is one of the wonderful aspects of living together. Yeah.

Kate M.      
I really like that, that metaphor. And you know, the internet is vast, you could read up a whole lot about Senegal online, but that is absolutely not the same as picking up little bits here and there from daily interactions with a host student.

Kate M.
One of the things that Jutta has learned from her conversations with Diarra has been about the family structure in Senegal. Diarra comes from a big family...

Diarra S.
So personally, in my family, we are like nine children, so a big family…

Kate M.
And is used to spending a lot of time with her relatives. In Senegal, it is common for family members to live together in the same compound. And as she said, you don’t really travel much unless you’re going to see family.
With the Mackensen-von Stieglitz family in Seattle, the role of extended family in daily life is less pronounced.

Jutta V.
So for me it sounds that there is much more sort of that community and obviously since we are immigrants to this country, recent immigrants, we do not have this extended family here in the United States.
And so, that makes it here in Seattle different. We are sort of with friends, but we do not have, you know, the birthday party of little nephew so-and-so, and cousin so-and-so, or an auntie so-and-so. So we don't have that as much. So I'm sure that that is different for Diarra that there is not that influx of extended family. And sure, you know, that might also be a difference in the United States. But I think it depends on where you live in the United States, and if you are close to your family. So that definitely, I think is a big difference. And, we also find so many similarities. Like she always says, You're, you're like my mom.

Diarra S.     
She is like my mom, I feel like I'm not really far from my mom, because she really acts like my mother.

Kate M.     
What characteristics does Jutta share with your mother?

Diarra S.     
Um, first of all, she loves ginger tea. And my mom is like, she loves ginger tea as well. And, hmm, what else? Yeah, my mom can be really strict sometimes. But she's like, really chill. And she's exactly like that.

Jutta V.     
Yeah, I already said to Diarra I'm so looking forward to when I meet her mom, and we sit down and have a fresh ginger tea. And maybe, you know, we cannot communicate much because Diarra has told me that her mom speaks Wolof so I would need to learn some Wolof, I guess.

Diarra S.     
Yeah.

Jutta V.     
But you know, you don't need many words to feel comfortable next to each other. Yeah, sharing this experience of having had Diarra as a child. Yeah that really being that other host mom I think that will be an amazing connection. And it's just fascinating that across cultures yeah and such different cultures that you find these commonalities. That mothers do the same with their daughters.

Kate M.
So Diarra, as established… your host parents are from Germany and Germany via the Netherlands. Have you learned at all about the cultures of these countries since your time in Seattle, United States?

Diarra S.     
Oh, yeah, definitely. I have been experiencing Christmas in a German family, which was so fun, because I got to make some pastries with my host family, they were like showing me how to do things. And that was so fun. And yeah, in daily life, like hearing them talk German. That's also so interesting, because I've never been around people that speak German at all. So that was really cool. And I've been learning a little bit of German. And yeah, that's really interesting, doing all of that.

Kate M.      
Okay, so you speak Wolof, French, English. And you're, you're learning some German as well? Yes, it's a lot. So Diarra, could you tell me a little bit about the things that you do with your host family? Activities, trips.     

[Sea sounds]

Diarra S.     
We've been doing a lot of stuff. Like, when I first came to Seattle, I just ended up on a sailing boat. Which I've never been in my life, like I have never been in a boat. And it was just telling me that we will stay there for a night. I was so amazed. I was like, how am I going to stay like in a boat and sleep there, as if I was like in my house? And that was pretty surprising. But that was really fun. Like, because we were like, kind of stuck in a space so we got to know each other more. We played games and that was so fantastic.

Diarra S.     
So, we've been hiking as well. We've been hiking a lot, like three times. I'm not a huge fan of hiking. I've never been hiking before. So the first hike was really interesting. And I was really scared. But it was fun. It turns out to be really fun. And what else…

Jutta V.      
What did we do this weekend?

Diarra S.     
Oh, we went ice skating. It was the first time that I’ve been ice skating. And we invited a friend, one of my friends that is also an exchange student from Germany. It was so fun. And I got to learn because I didn't know how to ice skate at all. So that was really fun. And today, right, today, we're going to Idaho to ski. Oh, wow. Yeah, I'm very excited and a little bit scared because she will be really cold. I'm not really used to those very low temperatures. But I mean, we'll see I'm very excited.

Jutta V.     
So it will be cold and she will be put into ski boots and onto skis. You will give you some polls. And then we can get her onto the magic carpet, maybe. We’ll see.

Kate M.      
So many so many activities. Sailing, ice skating, skiing. You know the thing about skiing, is that pretty much anywhere you're going to go is going to have a bunny hill. Are you familiar with the term bunny hill?

Jutta V.      
Did you know that term bunny hill? I don't know if we use that. Okay, what is the bunny hill?

Kate M.     
A bunny hill is at a ski resort. It's like a very small hill for new skiers and children to practice but also adults, adults who are new at skiing. That's so exciting.

Diarra S.      
I just remembered that we also went to Oregon. We went to the coast.

Jutta V.
To the beach.

Diarra S.
The beach and that was so fun. We went there for Thanksgiving. And I remember just like jumping in the Pacific Ocean because it was a challenge from my host dad. He said that if I did it he would make me a breakfast burrito. So yeah, that's why I did it.

Jutta V.     
And yeah, she went all the way in the Pacific Ocean on Thanksgiving.

Kate M.
And you also did get your breakfast burrito?

Diarra S.
Yeah. It was good.

Kate M.      
Very impressive. Okay, let's see.

Kate M.
I want to share a bit about the education system in Senegal. Please note that I am just speaking in general… not about Diarra’s experience, or her school in Dakar specifically. But still, it will hopefully give you some context about the differences between school there, and what you know of in the U.S. school system.
So the education system faces… a number of challenges, especially for students who live in rural areas… and also for students who are girls.
There are high out-of-school rates, often due to poverty, as well as cultural factors prioritizing work or religious education. Also, sometimes long distances to travel to school.

According to 2020 data from the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID), only 50.8% of youth complete primary school, 10.5% complete secondary school, and 3.2% of individuals aged 25 and older hold at least a bachelor's degree.

And to talk about gender differences in education in Senegal… Educating girls is sometimes seen as less important than educating boys. Traditional gender roles, where men are considered breadwinners and heads of households, contribute to families prioritizing a son's education, anticipating it as a future income source.

Cultural norms can lead to pressure on girls to marry young. This often then leads to pregnancy, which forces them to drop out of school to manage household responsibilities and motherhood.
These issues create a cycle that disadvantages girls and perpetuates gender inequality in education.

Ya know, most AFS students who I talk to- regardless of where in the world they are from- seem very enthusiastic about all of the activities that high schools in the U.S. offer. And Diarra is no exception. However, many of these other students are coming from countries that have higher school completion rates, better infrastructure, and greater gender parity in education. I have no doubt that the school experiences Diarra has had here will stick with her long after her departure from Seattle.

Kate M.
So to talk a little bit about school, Diarra, could you tell me a bit about your high school and kind of what activities you're involved in?

Diarra S.     
I'm now enrolled in a school named Lincoln High School. And I have been happy with that school, because it's very fun. I will say that, like, it's really diverse. It's a mostly a wide school. But it's still like a huge school where, like, people are so welcoming. And so that, and I've been having friends, I've been doing a lot of activities, I've been into a Baking Club.
I've played bowling as a sport, which was  amazing and unbelievable, because in Senegal, you will never like call bowling a sport. But here it was taken really seriously. And that was so fun.
And I have been in a club named BSU, the Black Student Union. So they were able to build a community where people would just come and just discuss things.

Kate M.
With the Black Student Union, Diarra participated in an assembly for Martin Luther King Jr. Day.

Diarra S.
And that was also so exciting to do, because I wasn't really used to doing that at all in Senegal. So that was my first time and I really liked it.
So that's why I'm aiming to participate in the multicultural assembly in my school as an emcee. So, it’s bigger. And yeah, I'm very excited. And we are now writing the script and like, looking after, like the performers, making sure that they are ready. Yeah, it's been just so amazing.
And I've never experienced that also, because even back in Senegal, I go to an international school as well. But we don't really do showcases. So that will be really fun to see. And experience.

Kate M.      
So besides ice skating skills, bowling skills and the forthcoming skiing skills. Diarra, what skills do you think you've gained from your year so far in Seattle?

Diarra S.     
I would say that first of all, I'm now really comfortable and fluent with English. Which is pretty cool, because I wasn't able to hold a whole discussion. So that's really good.
And I've been able to be more independent, because in my family, I'm the last one. So it's just so different for when you're just in a different country with a different family, you're just doing things that you've never been doing, and you're doing it by yourself. I've been growing up. And I'm feeling it, which is amazing.
And also the fact that I think, I will say that I'm more a critical thinker, now. I would say it wasn't a skill that I have been developing in Senegal. And I would say it's mostly because of how we teach things at school. Because the curriculum is just so different from Senegal. And at Lincoln, they really emphasize project and group project and which is really good. And I didn't get to do that in Senegal that much. So I think, yeah, I've been doing pretty well, I would say.

Kate M.
Yeah, it sounds like it!

Kate M.   
And I asked Jutta what changes she had seen in Diarra so far this year.

Jutta V.     
No, I mean, I would say with Diarra,  when she first came, I could tell sort of, sure, she was afraid or anxious, right, because she didn't know the environment. And she also wasn't used to really navigate things on her own.
You know, we are dependent on the bus system here to get to school, but also by now to other places. And so Diarra, you know, like, at first “Ahh, oh my gosh, the bus, how do I find this,” and now she just, to me, it looks like that she's extremely comfortable, even looks for her bus route, if she has to go somewhere else. And it's interesting, it's something that you yourself, she herself, maybe doesn't even realize as much, but it's huge steps. It's huge to really become that independent.
Or I remember we opened a bank account for her. So she, as a woman, Senegalese woman, goes and opens a bank account in the United States, and, you know, signs the papers for that. And, I mean, I thought that was, I don't know if you see it that way. But I thought that was really empowering. So like, oh, my gosh, I can go to a foreign country. And I can do this for myself.
So, these little things we talk a lot about in school, you know, if there is something, take the initiative, write to that person. Or, even sort of write a thank you to that person because they did something for you. And, yeah, I would say sort of taking that initiative, taking that responsibility. I've seen a huge development in that. And sure, she definitely did that in her own country to a certain extent, but here in a foreign country to sort of really develop that independence and I think it's a huge huge stone, milestone, you know.
Probably one doesn't realize until later, what that has actually initiated in yourself. Yeah.

[Bowling alley sounds]

Jutta V.
And then so many fun activities. Oh my god, that bowling team, I just cannot believe that, you know, practice three times a week and then the games and so much fun you work you identified your specific bowling ball that you are just perfect with right.

Diarra S.
Yeah, exactly.

Jutta V.
And then sure, celebrating the… what are they called if you hit all of them?

[Bowling ball striking pins]

Diarra S.
Strikes.

Jutta V.
The strikes, you know, celebrating the strikes and coming home and “I had so-and-so many strikes” and then sure the end of the season party. And I mean, you know that in American high schools is just fantastic. Because it just builds community and, sure, also achievement, a pride in what you do. So it's that, that is just wonderful and wonderful for all the students here.

Kate M.     
Absolutely. And also, Diarra, just things like navigating a bus system in a new country, opening a bank account, playing a sport that you never considered playing before. When you go back to Senegal, I'm sure you know, as you get older 20, 25, 30 you're going to encounter things that are gonna seem tricky. And you're like, you know what, I mean, I did bowling in a foreign language and Seattle, like I navigated a bus system in a country that's not my own. I can do this, this and that. You have that confidence that you can do tough things and then they become less tough.

Kate M.
And as I often do, I asked Jutta what advice she would give to a family considering hosting an exchange student.

Jutta V.     
Yeah, you know, it's interesting, you really open your heart to, to a young person that takes the risk of coming all the way across the oceans, and takes that risk to come into this country. And yes, you now really have to open your heart to let this person into your family.
And I think if you do that, if you open your heart, then I also think that that student will experience something very unique. And no matter how your family is set up, because, you know, in our case, now we're down from three kids to essentially our youngest is still here. So the era now makes it to kids. Fortunately, our oldest still comes back home quite a bit. And so all the family dynamics will be very different from family to family, and you cannot optimize that for an exchange student. But as soon as you sort of just open it up to them, and make sure that they are exposed to a good variety… an interesting school, a vibrant school. Also, it's nice if it's a big school because it gives them lots of opportunities.
And then sort of be part of your family activities. And your immediate environment, then I think an exchange student will always have an amazing experience and also you as a family just gain so much from that. Does it involve extra energy? Absolutely. Any additional child involves lots of extra energy. But if you are ready to share that energy then absolutely. It's a wonderful, wonderful experience.

Kate M.     
Thank you so much. That was great. Well, thank you both so much for taking the time to chat with me before your long voyage to Idaho. It was great to learn a bit about both of you. Have a fun trip. Go easy on the skis. It's pizza. French fry. Go slow with the pizza.

Jutta V.      
The pizza, we need the pizza.

Kate M.     
I'm so glad we were able to make this happen and enjoy the rest of your break, Diarra, and yeah have a great time skiing. Okay. Bye.

Jutta V.     
Wonderful. Okay, thank you for your time.

Kate M.
That was Diarra from Senegal, hosted by the Mackensen-von Stieglitz family, and Jutta von Stieglitz.
I hope you enjoyed this episode and gained insights into Diarra's year in Seattle, along with a deeper understanding of the host family experience. AFS host families come in various forms. Like I said, a single parent, a mom and a dad with children at home, a same sex couple, empty nesters, or individuals without children, any combination. This family? Happens to be a mom and a dad born outside of the United States. What is important is their strong commitment to fostering intercultural connection.

If you're curious and want to hear more stories, revisit some previous episodes to hear additional conversations with different host families. Allow me to suggest episodes from seasons 1, 2, and 3, respectively: "A Lifelong AFSer," "What is an AFS Host Parent," and "Hosting an Exchange Student: Insights from Host Siblings and Families."

A thank you once again to all our AFS host families, and a resounding happy Host Family Appreciation Month!

[Music]

Kate M.
Thank you for listening to The AFS Exchange! I’m Kate Mulvihill. Let us know what you thought of this episode by sending a message to podcast@afsusa.org. You can also rate and review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe there as well so you don’t miss any episodes in this 4th season.

This podcast was created by Kate Mulvihill. Social media by Julie Ball and Nina Gaulin. Special thanks to Natalie Rehburger.